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tv   Inside Politics With John King  CNN  December 3, 2021 9:00am-10:00am PST

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night to anderson cooper, she believes she's seen from the story so far from the parents -- what the parents did was beyond negligence is how the prosecutor said it on cnn. thank you very much. as you can see in the side of your screen we're waiting to hear from the prosecutor in this case. an update on this and formal announcement of this breaking news, involuntary manslaughter charges against the parents of the boy charged in the shooting death of four students, injuring several more at his high school this week. much more with "inside politics" right now. . welcome to inside politics. we begin with breaking news and we will get the details. the oakland county prosecutor decided to file involuntary manslaughter charges, four counts each, against the parents of the alleged shooter who killed four students at oxford
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high school near pontiac michigan this week. shimon prokupecz is on the ground for us. we're waiting for the prosecutor so lay this out. four counts against the parents of the shooter involuntary manslaughter. what more do we know? >> yeah. that is what the court complaint, the criminal charges that have now been filed with the courthouse here, that say that both jennifer and james crumbley, the parents of the alleged shooter, have been charged with four counts each of homicide, involuntary manslaughter, that relates obviously to the four people who died in the shooting. this is, obviously, a huge development. the prosecutors and investigators have been investigating the parents since almost immediately after the shooting, learning immediately that the weapon that was used in the attacks was purchased by the father just four days, just four days before the shooting. and so that is something that they have revealed.
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they've revealed that early on in the investigation. there is also other information that prosecutor says that she is going to reveal, something she hinted at last night when she spoke to anderson cooper, saying that they were going to reveal information that could have prevented this attack. so we're waiting for her to step out here and start the press conference, which should begin momentarily, john. >> we'll come back to that when it happens. our illegal analyst, elliott williams, former prosecutor, karyn mcdonald is the prosecutor, four counts of involuntary manslaughter, charges brought quickly against jennifer and james crumbley. essentially, their son was having problems at school four days before this shooting. the father acknowledges he bought a pistol for the son. walk through how you build a case. >> involve tarry manslaughter is where someone commits a careless or reckless act that leads to
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the death of another. that's the language in the law. they're charging them with is being careless in the securing or safeguarding of the firearm. what's striking, the night before the shooting, he posts on instagram saying hey look, this is my new handgun and it's mine. it's suggesting either the father had purchased it for him and given it to him, or had purchased it and been careless and lets the son think it's his. it's extreme recklessness under the law that carries a maximum 15-year penalty per count and i think $7500 fine. it's significant. it would have been hard to charge them with the terrorism charges and other things that just would have required a greater intent that they intended to have something happen. >> let's bring in our national security analyst on that point. the shooter, the 15-year-old son, is charged with one count of terrorism in addition to assault and in addition to homicide. prosecutor's decision to movie swiftly and charge the parents,
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for jennifer and james crumbley, four counts each tells you what? >> it tells me they have a much stronger case than mere negligence at this stage. in most of these instances the parents are not even criminallies from cuted. most historic cases involving a child or kid using a gun, sometimes there's civilian lawsuits brought or civil lawsuits brought against them later on by the victims' families. this is historic, depending on what's about to happen, which it is the first case that a prosecutor will bring criminal charges against the parents of a perpetrator of a mass school shooting for involuntary manslaughter. this is a mass school shooting case. the only criminal prosecutions i can find in the past are ones they go after a parent because the kid shot himself or another family member. this is extending it. part of this is because the nra and gun lobbying groups have been so successful at stopping
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sfratsz having even the basic home lock requirement of locks, lock boxes for guns and other weaponry, so this is really the sort of next resort for a lot of these prosecutors because from what we can tell, there's no violation of any gun law right now. they're going to use the criminal tim in terms of manslaughter. and, you know, as i said, it's about time. i mean these parents need to start to protect other parents' children. that's what is at stake here. >> and to that point, elliott, bring the conversation back here, completely understand what swrul ya is saying, it's about time, we have these conversations about school shootings, easy access for younger people to weapons. the political frustration, the parental frustration, the societal frustration, is obvious and palpable. can you build a legal case to make these parents an example, as julia says? >> these really aren't that controversial charges.
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getting back to this idea of carelessness that ends in someone's death. there are rules governing how you ought to secure a firearm or secure a firearm in your home. they're going to vary from state to state. clearly there was -- and again, julia touched on this, the investigators seem to know more than we do right now in terms of what the parents' knowledge might have been about what his intentions might have been. >> and julia, just one more to that point, to the point elliott is making, as we do know that the parents were summoned to the school hours before the shooting, at least two teachers complained saying that they saw things, heard things that were deeply alarming and concerning to them and heard from the sheriff yesterday saying there's no video evidence that the student, the alleged shooter, left the school, therefore the gun most likely had to have already been there, either in his locker, backpack or hidden in the school. again, when you're trying to build a case about what the parents knew, what stands out as to how to connect the dots?
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>> beginning that weekend, what's been interesting to me looking at it. we don't know what's going to be disclosed in the press conference which is a father buys a gun over thanksgiving weekend. the son, who, from the sheriff's press conference had no interaction with law enforcement or the school, on monday, that becomes the first day in which a teacher says something is off with this kid and the teacher rightfully goes to a guidance counselor. tuesday something is wrong with this kid so we're going to bring the parents in, who know a gun has been purchased. the kid is now in some sort of stress or whatever and the parents know a gun, don't know if it's the first gun, has been purchased on the weekend. the compression of the chronology is likely going to help the prosecution, that the parents had either they were negligent or involuntary, but the parents ought to have known, right, they bought a gun, he's
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on line apparently talking about this gun, he's at school, where is the gun? the parents have an obligation. this is that compressed time frame has been a factor that makes this case a good case to begin to press parents in custody of these teenagers, where is the gun, right. where is the gun that is, as i said, killing other parents' children? >> the sheriff has also said he wishes as well the school had alerted him. but they're waiting for the prosecutor to step out and outline these charges. we will go back to that live as soon as it happens. move on to other news in washington, and that would be the biden economy, on a somewhat deflating morning if you're the president of the united states. joe biden wants americans to see that there is an economic rebound under way and that it's about to get better, but convincing them is critical to himself and party's future. this morning, job numbers that show only 210,000 new hires in
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november. that fell well short of what economists expected. let's get to the white house and senior white house correspondent phil mattingly. the president did say yes, the unemployment rate is down, but glossed over the fact that last month hiring was sluggish. >> it was a miss based on what economists were forecasting and it was significantly lower than the month prior. i think to some degree, when you dig into this jobs report, you get a sense it's a microcosm of what the president bhans facing on the most important issue of americans over 11 months in office. you dig in on the report, several positive elements, talking about wage gains, labor participation rate ticking up in a significant point. if you're talking about the unemployment rate, ticking down significantly from 4.6 to 4.2%. those are things that president made clear he wanted to talk about. take a listen. >> our economy is markedly stronger than a year ago and the incredible news that our unemployment rate has fallen to
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4.2%. at this point in the year we're looking at the sharpest one-year decline in unemployment ever. simply point, america is back to work. our jobs recovery is going very strong. all told, in the first ten full months of my administration, the economy has created 6 million jobs, a record for a new president. >> reporter: to some degree it's kind of the perfect window into for everything the administration can point to that's going well in the economy, whether it's wage gains, whether it's overall growth, whether it's job gains, consistently over the course of the 11 months, seems to be always something on the downside. on a macro level, inflation at a three-decade high, energy prices have been high for months at this point in time. it is the reality of an economy coming out of a once in a century pandemic and it's also a reality of an economy that's still dealing with a persistent pandemic, and one that is now gotten a little cloudier as everybody waits to find out what
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the omicron variant will actually bring. i would note, you may have noticed the president's voice was gravelly there. he cleared his throat a number of times, something more than the norm over the last several months me did make clear he is tested on a regular basis for covid. he has a cold from his 1 1/2-year-old grandson who likes to kiss pop, according to the president. >> one of the lighter moments of a tough day for the president this morning trying to explain those numbers. appreciate the live report. important insights from greg, the chief economics commentator for the "wall street journal." the president is right, if you look at the last 10 months of job growth, move to the other graphic and show the last 10 months of job growth, they go up, come down. this is the world of the covid pandemic that the forecasters keep thinking we're about to come out and have a boom, but then the pandemic says no, this is a different economy, this is a very different recovery. it will have fits and starts. when you look deep into the
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numbers what do you see? what do you see that's good and maybe troublesome? >> the step back is very important, is that we had a weak month in november, but the year has been tremendous. it's been a strong year for job growth, extremely strong year for gdp growth. unfortunately, for the president that's not where people's minds are. they're on the inflation side of the equation. that complicates the message he's trying to project that things are back to normal. dig down into november it's a mixed bag. the headline number, the jobs growth was weak and that has to be disappointing. somewhat disappointing is wages were only up a third of a percentage point, somewhat less than prior months. even though wages are doing okay, they're not keeping up with inflation. what's the good news? we're actually starting to see people come back into the labor force, maybe because it's they're less worried about covid, the enhanced unemployment insurance benefits have gone away for a few months now. we're also on the inflation front, a lot of signs that some
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of the shortages are not as bad. the long congo line of ships waiting off the west coast not as long. my guess is that things will look a little bit better on the inflation and job front a few months from now. big asterisk, omicron. >> that's what i wanted to talk about omicron in the sense that again, former president trump went through this during hisas year in office. president biden is going through it in his first year in office. every time you think the cloud is lifting, either it is in recession or we have figured out how to deal with it, something comes along like a new variant. hard to predict, but adding that uncertainty into it. if you're a company, are we hiring new workers? if you're a worker, am i willing to go back into the workplace? what does that do? >> with the caveat we don't know how transmissible, don't know how dangerous this variant is, but let's say it's broadly similar to the impact from delta, delta caused a slowing -- >> i'm sorry. i need to interrupt and take
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you. this is oakland county prose . good afternoon. i'm the oakland county prosecutor. thank you for joining me this morning. it's been a devastating week for all of us. as we continue to mourn the loss of the four children who were shot and killed in the week, this week in oxford high school. we've heard some positive news that some of those injured in tuesday's shooting have made some progress recovering from their physical injuries. while the physical wounds of the victims are starting to heal, the emotional wounds to the victims, students, and the entire community will last for years. i continue to work with oakland county sheriff mike bouchard and his team to stay close to the facts and evidence of this case as it continues to evolve. my role as the oakland county prosecutor is to seek skrus tis
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for the victims of this tragedy. the family, friends and loved ones of hanna st. juliana, madisyn baldwin, tate myre and justin shilling and the other victims who had their lives shattered. as i mentioned a few days ago, i had the opportunity to speak with the parents of the children who were killed. additionally, my office has reached out this morning to all of the victims who were injured, and we continue to be dedicated to offering them services and support during this time. while the shooter was the one who entered the high school and pulled the trigger, there are other individuals who contributed to this -- the events on november 30th and it's my intention to hold them accountable. it's imperative we prevent this from happening again. no other parent or community should have to live through this nightmare. i have shared previously and i will reiterate today that gun
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ownership is a right and with that right, comes great responsibility. based on the information and evidence i have received today i am announcing charges against the shooter's parents, jennifer and james crumbley. the charges are as follows -- james crumbley, is charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter. jennifer crumbley is also charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter. i will now publish the details that led to that decision and have already previously been made public which allows me to comment on them in a swear to that has taken place in the district court by detective temlus. the investigation into the school shooting at oxford high school which occurred on november 30th, 2021, has revealed that james crumbley purchased a sig sauer .9
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millimeter model sp-222 from acme shooting goods in oxford, michigan, november 26th, 2021. a store employee confirms that ethan crumbley was present with james te at the time of the purchase. james crumbley completed atf form 309- -- 5309-a. on or about november 26th, ethan crumbley's social media post revealed photos of a semiautomatic handgun along with the caption just got my new beauty today, including an emoji with hearts, sig sauer .9 millimeter, any questions i will answer, end quote. subsequent to the purchase of that weapon, one of jennifer crumbley's social media posts on about 11-27-read mom on sunday testing out his new christmas present. on november 21st, 2021, a teacher at the oxford high school observed ethan crumbley
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searching ammunition on his cell phone during class and reported the same to school officials. jennifer crumbley was contacted via voicemail by school personnel regarding the son's inappropriate internet search. school personnel indicate they followed that voicemail with an e-mail but received no response from either parent. thereafter, jennifer crumbley exchanged text messages about the incident with her son on that day, stating, quote, lol, i'm not mad at you, you have to learn not to get caught. end quote. on november 30th, 2021, the morning of the shooting the next day, ethan crumbley's teacher came upon a note on ethan's desk which alarmed her to the point she took a picture of it on her cell phone. the note contained the following -- a drawing of a semiautomatic handgun pointing at the words, quote, the thoughts won't stop help me end, quote. another section was a drawing of
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a bullet with the following words above that bullet, quote, blood everywhere, end quote. between the drawing of the gun and the bullet is a drawing of a person who appears to have been shot twice and bleeding. below that figure is a drawing of a laughing emoji. further down the drawing are the words, quote, my life is useless, end quote, and to the night right of that are the words, quote, the world is dead, end quote. as a result, james and jennifer crumbley were immediately summoned to the school. the school counselor came to the classroom and removed the shooter and brought him to the office with his backpack. counselor obtained the drawing but the shooter altered it. the drawings of the gun and bloody figure were scratched out along with the words help me and my life is useless. the world is dead and blood everywhere. those were all altered by him. as the meeting -- at the meeting james and jennifer crumbley were shown the drawing and were advised that they were required to get the -- their son into
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counseling within 48 hours. both james and jennifer crumbley failed to ask their son if he had his gun with him or where his gun was located and failed to inspect his backpack for the presence of the gun which he had with him. james and jennifer crumbley resisted the idea of then leaving the school at that time, of their son leaving at that time. instead, james and jennifer crumbley left without their son. he was returned to the classroom. when the news of the active shooter at oxford high school had been made public jennifer crumbley texted to her son at 11: -- 1:22 p.m., quote, ethan, don't do it. end quote. at 1:37 p.m., james crumbley called 911 reporting that a gun was missing from his house, and he believed his son may be the
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shooter. further investigation revealed the sig sauer hand gun purchased by james crumbley was stored unlocked in a drawer in james and jennifer's bedroom. the gun recovered from the shooter at the school after the shooting was the same gun that was purchased by his father james crumbley on november 26th, 2021, in the presence of his son. based upon the forgoing, the oakland prosecutor's office requested and received authorized -- we charged four counts of involuntary manslaughter as to james crumbley and four counts of involuntary manslaughter as to jennifer crumbley.
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i want to be clear that these charges are intended to hold the individuals who contributed to this tragedy accountable and also send the message, that gun owners have a responsibility. when they fail to uphold that responsibility, there are serious and criminal consequences. as we work together to honor the lives lost and all of those impacted by the evil acts this week, justice for the victims and their families is at the forefront of today's announcement. we need to do better in this country. we need to say enough is enough for our kids, our teachers, parents, for all of us in this community and the communities across this nation. i'm happy to take questions now. >> last night the superintendent -- >> one moment. go ahead. >> last night the superintendent
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posted a video and suggested that as a result of that meeting that he saw no reason to contact law enforcement. there was no danger. have you seen his video posted to youtube last night and is there any thought you can share on that based on what you said today? >> i viewed portions of it and was briefed on the contents of the video. >> were there any missteps by the school? should they have reported right away to law enforcement after seeing those images? >> >> any individual who had the opportunity to stop this tragedy should have done so. the question is, what did they know and when did they know it? i've laid out the facts that were sworn to this afternoon and are the basis for the charges. >> you said, you know, we need to do better to prevent tragedies like this. it's extremely rare for parents to be charged in school shootings. are you trying to set a new standard or is the evidence
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overwhelming in this case. >> i have tremendous compassion and empathy for parents who have children struggling and at risk for whatever reason. i am no means saying an active shooter situation should always result in a criminal prosecution against parents. but the facts of this case are so egregious, reading this document, looking at it, reading the words help me, with a gun, blood everywhere, this doesn't just have -- impact me as a prosecutor and lawyer but it impacts me as a mother. the notion that a parent could read those words and also know their son had access to a deadly weapon, that they gave him, is unconscionable and i think it's criminal. it is criminal. >> the parents -- for their son under age and not allowed to own a firearm in michigan? >> i believe that the facts probably indicate that that's
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the result, but that would be a federal charge and if that's appropriate to make that, i'm confident that they will. question? >> what level of responsibility do you cannot from parents in situations like this? >> well, again, i -- i don't think this is a unique or unusual interpretation. when you give your child access to a deadly weapon, when you indicate that you're buying a weapon and it's -- you sign that it's for yourself, yet clearly, based on the statements of the shooter, the statements of mom, that was his gun. and then we have the searching of ammunition. we have mom saying at least you didn't get caught. we have the next morning, drawing essentially almost explicitly what he was about to do, i mean, i expect parents and
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everyone to have humanity and to step in and stop a potential tragedy. >> are they in custody already? >> i'm not going to make a comment on that. >> do you have more detail on the meeting between the parents and the school? you said they were resistant to having their son pulled out of class that day. hours later he went on to do the shooting. there was no communication from the parents that he may have had access to a handgun or in possession of a handgun after they had been publicly on social media? >> i can confirm what i just stated, which is that they did not indicate to school officials or to their son and inquire about the whereabouts of the gun or existence of the gun to my knowledge. >> but the school had pushed to have him removed and they were -- can you give us more detail on that? >> i'm not aware -- i can't comment at this time.
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he was not removed from the school. he was returned back to class with his backpack where we have reason to believe the gun was stored in the backpack. did you have a question right here? >> did school officials ask to inspect the backpack that the shooter had on him? >> not that we have been advised. >> do you know if -- between the episodes, the teachers, were each aware of what had transpired? like did teacher number two, was that teacher aware of what happened on day one? was it just -- >> i can't speak to that. i don't know. >> the other thing i have for the families, have you briefed them on what your investigation has found, specifically with the school? >> i have spoken to the parents and indicated the nature of the charges that might be coming. i have no spoken about the school. >> what was their reaction? your communications with them
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about some of this? >> these people are in incredibly deep, horrific pain and grief. their reaction is as you expect. anyone who had the opportunity to stop this from happening to done it. >> will the parents be arrested or allowed to turn themselves in. >> i can't comment on that. >> are you looking at anybody else for charges, maybe school officials? >> the investigation is ongoing. >> prior to -- >> have any reason to believe that he had a weapon on him that day? >> i've stated what was known to the individuals, what the search indicated and ammunition, what the document -- i stated every single sentence that was on that document. so i suppose you should draw your own conclusion. the conclusion i draw is that there was absolute reason to believe this individual was
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dangerous and disturbed and i'll leave it at that. >> given that -- >> fully cooperating with the investigation at this point? >> i haven't conducted the investigation, so i can't say. >> prior to the shooting, did the district superintendent's office know about the issues that happened in the high school? did someone in the high school actually go to the superintendent's office or the administration and say, this is what we have going on? >> i don't have any information about that at this time. >> being what it is, how is this young man allowed to go back to class? given the circumstances you've described, the severity you're talking about, it's still under investigation, they're victims, i'm not trying to assess blame, but they let him back in class with this type of severity. how does that happen?
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>> i'm not going to give you a political answer or cover for anybody, that is, of course he shouldn't have gone back to that classroom. of course he shouldn't have. i don't have ill feelings or negative feelings about any -- anyone. i -- but, of course, he he shouldn't have. he should not have been allowed to go back to that class. i believe that that is a universal position. i'm not going to chastise or attack, but, yeah, i mean -- >> you have the task of reviewing whether there's criminal negligence there. >> i do. and the investigation is ongoing. >> were these involuntary manslaughter charges the strongest possible charges you were considering for the parents? >> it's the strongest possible charge that we could prove that there's probable cause to
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charge. >> it's illegal for a minor to own a handgun. what are michigan's law for bringing a child to a practice range? >> good question. michigan's laws are woefully inadequate. we don't have a safe storage law. you're not required to store your weapon in a safe manner. children are allowed to attend with their parents so long as their parent is present. the answer to that question is we don't have strong enough sflus have you uncovered any evidence before the gun purchase in the days leading up to this that shows what his state of mind was? what his state of mind was leading up to the day of the shooting? >> there's evidence about state of mind prior to that day. i can't comment on it. it is not related to the allegations that we're making at this time. >> the teacher injured in the shooting, is one of the teachers who made any of the complaints?
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>> i don't believe so, but i can't say for certain. >> you described it as premeditated. how long had it been meditated? >> long enough. long enough. >> yes. >> one second. go ahead. >> one point the father aware that the gun was missing. there is any indication he might have known the gun was missing before the shooting or before that meeting with the prince pals? >> upon hearing that there was an active shooter on that day, mr. crumbley drove straight to his home to look for his gun. i think that's all i need to say about that. >> did the gunshot be liable if they concede the weapon was purchased for a 15-year-old not for the father? >> based on what we reviewed the gun shop owner is not under investigation. >> do you know at any point during these meetings with the counselors and parents if there
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is any talks to reach out to the on-site officer with these concerns? >> whether they did or not. >> if there was talks, why they didn't, if they brought the parents in and have the meetings. >> i don't know. i don't think we have at this point full statements that i've reviewed. >> a lot of, you know, we've been here now a few days and talked to some law enforcement and sheriff's people and others. people are angry at the school. obviously there's issues with the parents, but there's a lot of anger with the school. i know it may not be yours responsibility to address it, but since you're the first person in all these days to talk about this, what is your response to that? >> i would be angry too. and i am. but that doesn't mean that there's a criminal culpability, but yes, i would be angry. i would be angry. i am angry.
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i'm angry as a mother, as the prosecutor, as a person that lives in this county, i'm angry. there were a lot of things that could have been so simple to prevent and, yes, there was a perfectly executed response, and he was apprehended immediately and we have great law enforcement and good training, but i said before, four kids were murdered. and seven more injured. so yes, i think we should all be very angry and we should take a very hard look at what is in place in terms of criminal responsibility, what gun owners are required to do, and again, i will say this, every single hour on the hour and i think that i have, i am not here to say that people shouldn't own guns. i know lots of people who own guns, but they do so responsibly. it's your responsibility, it's your duty to make sure that you don't give access to this deadly
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weapon to somebody that you have reason to believe is going to harm someone. it is our position that on that morning, particularly that morning, but also the day before, but that morning, looking at that drawing, it's impossible not to conclude that there was a reason to believe he was going to hurt somebody. >> have you been given any explanation as to why the school resource officer was not included in that meeting that morning at the school? >> i don't have any information. one more question. yes. >> yes. >> thank you. >> can you confirm the date that ethan was searching for ammo on his phone? >> it was the day before the shooting. >> okay. >> and can you confirm the name of the gun shop where they bought the gun? >> acme. >> and then -- >> you said two --
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>> the days leading up to thanksgiving? >> i can't speak to that. i know that there were in person classes on that day. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> listening to the oakland county prosecutor, karen mcdonald, laying out what she calls an egregious case against the parents of the alleged shooter who murderered four of his school mates in michigan. the prosecutor trying to send a message with gun rights comes great responsibility and both of these parents -- found the child texting in school searching for online ammunition his mother did not admonish him, but texted him you need to learn not to get caught. let's bring into the conversation. elliott, she's laying out case four counts of involuntary manslaughter against each of the parents, the mother and father, and she went through detail
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laying out why she believes she has probable cause to do that. >> right before the press conference, prosecutors probably know more than we think they do, and she laid it out right here. in order to convict someone of involuntary manslaughter she has to prove number one they caused the death or something caused the death and the person's actions were so grossly negligent to have been unreasonable, and they didn't take the normal steps that a reasonable person would or should have taken. that's the law. now what she did was walked through a number of factors. number one, says it's a christmas gift. she knows he has possession of a firearm at home or on his person. number two, they go into the meeting at the school and she says, they failed to ask after they see the drawings, that he's sort of at least fantasizing about killing people, doesn't ask what's in his back pok or his gun on him. number three, they fail -- the parents failed to inspect his backpack when they're in the school with him looking at these drawings of kids with bullet holes in their heads or whatever.
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they know he has the intent to do. she texted him don't do it and father and son, they had gone together to buy. they have every reason to believe he has a gun on his person, in his possession or available and intent to commit violent acts. a reasonable person would turn to their son and say wait a second, let's go home, let's get you emergency help or something like that. >> where is the gun. >> where is the gun. it's a matter of what is reasonable. that's what negligence is under the law in michigan. this was a way -- again you and i were talking about this, way stronger than i would have thought it was when we first started looking at it. >> yulia, we talked beforehand this is a groundbreaking case in some ways, charging the parents, the prosecutor made clear, i don't believe parents in every case are culpable if their child is involved in a mass shooting, but in this case, she said she's laying out the case as a prosecutor but speaking as a mother. >> yes. i thought it was a powerful
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press conference because leading into this, i was a little bit worried she wanted to make a case and didn't have the facts. i think she has more facts than the case needs. i just texted your producer i have to collect myself, and i'm not naive. that was shocking. it begins over thanksgiving weekend, they get a gift for him. he is present at the purchase of the gun. for 72 hours, as this kid is showing more and more evidence, even showing more evidence of really disturbing behavior, they not only -- they do three things, ignore it, the mother does not get back to the school, they lol it, the mother lols the son, right, and then they insist with the school, that he get to stay and don't look to see where the gun is. right before the press conference, i said where is the gun. why aren't parents asking where the gun is. as the prosecutor made clear, michigan does not have a safe storage law, even if you have minors in the home.
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what she's basically saying is, we're now going to interpret rightfully so, manslaughter or contributing involuntary manslaughter, as some responsibility, not a huge one, but some responsibility to know where the gun is if a kid is exhibiting behavior like ethan was. this is groundbreaking, but it's also seems so obvious. this seems absolutely right if my mind. i'm watching twitter and i think there's just collective national jaws dropping, good. it's about time that parents are held responsible and very negligent parents in this case whose son killed other children. >> and again, the prosecutor, karen mcdonald, saying with gun rights comes huge responsibilities. >> yes. >> should be serious and criminal consequences if those responsibilities are not kept. our crime and skrus tis reporter shimon prokupecz in the room. look, fact number one is that ethan crumbley is the accused
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shooter. fact number two, his parents have been charged in a groundbreaking case, four counts of involuntary manslaughter. you raised another important question there at the press conference about what about the school? how in the world was this young man allowed to go back into class on the day before the shooting he was searching for ammunition, on the day of the shooting another teacher saw the drawings, his parents summoned to the school and when they recklessly and irresponsibly said we want to leave him here, the school somehow let that stand. you asked that question about the anger in the community? >> there is anger over this. my producer and i have been here all week and talked to law enforcement officials, sheriff offices who ran too school, saw the blooded bodies and victims. as they started learning what the school knew, we had some information about it and the sources on the ground we've been talking to have been apoplectic,
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mad, angry over this information an the fact that the school, which has an officer assigned to it they could have gone to him and said hey, we have concern, we have an issue here we feel like the parent -- it's clear that the parents here were not parents. they couldn't do their jobs. but the school could have. the school could have gone to that sro officer, to the deputy assigned to the school, and said, he was searching for ammunition the day before, today he's making these drawings, talking about death, blood, and no one went to the police and the sheriff has held back. i've talked to him. he said i need to wait. but they're all angry over this because they are part of this community. i've been asking the prosecutor about this and i've been asking people in the community, no one has wanted to talk about it. finally today, we get the answer. it's chilling and in some ways when you think about it for these parents who have to live
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with this, the fact that the kids, the school that their kids went to, could have prevented this and did nothing, is really chilling. you know, you saw the emotion from this prosecutor. talked to her for several days. we've been here every day. it's been tough, and let me tell you, i think it's about time and you have to give her credit for coming out and saying this, because for so long, no one wanted to tell us for days now, what was going on here and today we learned. it really is just chilling when you think about it, john. >> i can hear the emotion in your voice, the emotion in the prosecutor's voice. again, speaking as a resident of the community because some of these things are just numbing when you see that the flashing red lights were going off and the school let this young man go back into the classroom, which is why it was a fantastic question. julia, come back in. we've had this conversation too many times. and the conversation always is, what will be different next time? one of the things people have promised after parkland, after columbine, is that, you know, you will try to look for the red
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flags, number one. all of our children, i'm speaking as parent now more than as a journalist, all of our children have to go through these drills, but so how is it possible after the legacy of the last decade and more, the last 25 years in the united states of america, how is it possible that a school has one teacher say he's searching for ammunition, a second teacher saying he's drawing qorei drawings and asking for help, how is it possible that student is allowed to go back in the classroom? >> it seems shocking and i was glad that prosecutor said i don't know if i have a legal case he against them, i'm just angry. part of the frustration everyone is feeling it always is someone else's responsibility. right. in other words, ultimately it's our kids responsibility to hide or to run. we're basically telling them, we can't do anything about gun laws or about a negligent gun ownership, what i would call it
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at this stage, and the last resort is we're going to train you. everything was done right as the prosecutor was saying right in all the wrong ways. the kids are hiding. they like up. there's police presence at the school. there are teachers who are worried. there's lots of training. the police officers know what to do in terms of protecting those kids. so our standard of success now is, there's not 20 dead kids, right. that's our standard of success now. that's what we've become. i do think the school will have responsibility. it's probably not criminal responsibility at this stage though. >> to that point we come back into the room, the sheriff has complained why didn't somebody pick up the phone and call the cops when you hear all this. the superintendent of schools put a video up trying to wash his hand, pontius pilate of this matter. is there civil liability for the victims here? >> they're going to be. the school and school district are going to be sued for a lot of money by the families of the
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victims. it's hard to see how the school can face criminal liability here. look, they've seen the drawings and so on, which are alarming and concerning that maybe he should have been treated in some way, gotten out of school, but it's the information about the gun that the parents had that the school didn't that probably would get in the way of charging them wait crime. were they negligent and irresponsible as a school district, of course. a often as we've seen before and you and i have talked about, negligence doesn't rise to the level of criminal liability. right now based on what we have. again, who knows what evidence the prosecutors are sitting on that might suggest that school knew more, he had a gun in school on that day or something like that. it looks just like civil lawsuits. >> the prosecutor saying there was more information about the state of mind that was available she did not want to discuss today. obviously this is a continuing story. dramatic news today. jennifer and james crumbley charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter after their son allegedly killed four of his classmates.
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president biden's hope for a giant year hp end victory centers on joe manchin of west vir virginia consisten sinema. sinema prefers the inside approach and rarely stops for the cameras and prefers to raise her policy points in private, but senator sinema did sit down with cnn's lauren fox and true to form, chose her words carefully when pressed to say whether she is ready now to do what the president wants.
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>> schumer has said he wants to vote on build back better the broader social safety net bill, before christmas break. are you prepared to vote yes when that comes to the floor? >> i don't set the schedule for the senate floor, and i'm always prepared to vote and to vote for what's right for the interests of arizona. i personally believe that the best way to create legislation is to be thoughtful and careful so that we're crafting legislation that truly represents the interests that we want to achieve and that creates a benefit and helps people all across arizona and the country. that's what i'm work on right now. >> it doesn't sound like you're quite a yes yet on the version that just passed the house of representatives? what changes do you want to make? >> folks know i don't negotiate in the press. i'm not going to do that with you. >> let's discuss to share their reporting, white house correspondent young, congressional reporter, sayingle, owe live yea for the "washington post" and the woman
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trying, congressional correspondent lauren fox. she's very interesting in the sense that, a, congratulations it's rare she agrees to sit down and talk. when she does she tries to hold her card close to the vest. makes her unique in today's politics where they seem to have the camera magnet in them. >> different than senator joe manchin we have an opportunity to talk to a lot. he often will try not to answer the question but inevitably ends up answering in some way. she's strict about what she wants you to know in any given moment. she's straightforward with biden, straightforward with majority leader schumer. she lets them know what she expects. she is not going to wave a red flag early and say i'm a yes on the build back better plan until she knows she has been able to squeeze every ounce of what she wants out of that negotiation. >> let's listen to more in the sense that just about every democrat in 2018 campaigned on repealing the trump tax cuts on the wealthy.
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joe biden, as did all the other democratic candidates in 2020. sinema is a no and when democrats get mad at her, she says not my fault. >> why do you think it is that your leadership sometimes overpromises? do you think that's a problem for voters and for the democratic party? >> i can only speak for myself, but what i can say is this, i would never promise something to the american people that i can't deliver. i think it's not responsible for elected leaders to do that. the concern i have is that, first, it's not very honest. you should just be honest. that's something my parents taught me when i was young and it stuck. >> yet, you're supposed to promise things in campaigns number one to push back on her a little bit. what a lot of democrats would say, if you're part of the democratic family every now and then you have to eat your peas. we all have to take something we don't want. >> there's frustration on the
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hill that this freshman has as much power she does in a state not as divided as west virginia is, for instance. there's a reason joe manchin does what he does but another freshman senator in arizona mark kelly who cuts a different profile and falls in line more. they look at her like, why is she carving out all of the attention and taking it away from some of the priorities that we all agree on for the most part. there's frustration there. >> even some of the ambiguity in her answers, on the timing also, of the wider social spending package that the white house has thrown so much weight into when it comes to trying to galvanize the base and trying to also give voters something to be excited about, that's also going to cause anxiety here especially given her vote is crucial here as they try to push that, and it comes at a time where this administration is dealing with some anxiety among voters of inflation and the economy and what have you. they've really put their weight, that being the white house and the administration and the
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president, behind this package that relies on the support and the choice of timing for kristen sinema. >> people who she has disagreement, some say she's beholden to corporate interests, takes all of this money, why won't she tell us, how can we negotiate a deal if she doesn't talk to us. she tells the president and other key players, but people say she's different. some used the word, enigma. senator sinema says know this. >> some of your colleagues, some of them progressives, think that you're kind of an enigma, not sure where you stand on any one issue while you're in the middle of a negotiation. do you think that's a fair criticism of you? >> i think i'm very direct, and i'm very up front when i talk to folks about what i believe in, what i can support and can't support. so i think there's some people who don't like what they're hearing, and they use other terms to describe it. folks in arizona know i've
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always been a straight shooter and always will be. >> they don't like what they're hearing and have to come up with some other label other than we disagree. >> she wasn't straight forward when i asked about the timing of the vote. that was a master class in not answering a question. as you point out, sometimes declined to endorse is the news, right. in this case it is too. yeah. the progressive anger at her is real. one of the challenges, if you dig into the president's approval ratings, a big part of the slide is among progressives and among democrats and among democratic leading independents. so that's one of the reasons they're pushing the panic but on build back better. this is a big package of progressive priorities. early childhood education, steps to battle the climate change. one of the reasons there's animosity to her. >> the corporate tax rate is something democrats have been talking about since 2017 and she wouldn't agree to raise it a single point, a single point.
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>> part of her evolution, we watch this, you study politician, i'm fascinated how they grow as they change into different roles. joe biden a senator and president. barack obama was a senator and was a president. sinema was a house member first. a green party member. somebody who used to work with ralph nader and is in a different place ideologically. she says that's life. >> when you first got into politics you were more progressive. what changed? >> well, one of the things that changed was i learned a lot. you know, i was serving over the years in the state legislature and now in the united states congress and i had an opportunity to learn from so many people across my district and then later now the whole state of arizona. >> here's my read on that. most people, including senator kelly, her colleagues say joe biden won arizona, arizona is trend morgue blue, we're good. i read that, she says i'm not so sure. i think it was a reaction to trump, i'm not sure my state is
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moving that far to the left, and i'm going to stay in the middle, maybe lean right sometimes to protect myself. >> she also i think her history of trying to accomplish things required her in the arizona state legislature to work with republicans. you might come in as a progressive but realize if i want to get something done i might need to work across the aisle a little bit. that maybe isn't true on build back better but other areas like infrastructure that she negotiated with republicans, it was the case. >> right. >> meanwhile causing frustration back home for a lot of people who supported her, not just for maybe her initial support of sweeping policies on climate change but immigration, right, and ta goes to only a couple weeks ago where we saw protesters approaching her, following her into a bathroom as well. that goes specifically to some of the grassroots organizing she initially supported back home for sweeping changes when it came to immigration reform. some of those changes very
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scaled down, but some in the build back better bill. >> the ring tone is you don't have the votes from hamilton. >> i am told from 2015. >> she was a "hamilton" fan from the beginning. have a fantastic weekend. listen to our podcast, inside politics, wherever you get your podcasts. busy news day. ana cabrera picks up our coverage right now. this is cnn breaking news. >> hello, i'm ana cabrera in new york. breaking news in the deadly school shooting out of michigan. a prosecutor moments ago revealing the parents of the suspected gunman have been charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter. charges like this against parents after a school shooting, extremely rare. their 15-year-old son is accused of killing these four students and wounding seven others at oxford high school thi

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