tv Cuomo Prime Time CNN November 30, 2021 6:00pm-7:00pm PST
good evening. we begin this hour with the fight against covid and potentially good news from israel. specifically, the israeli health minister who said indications show that people who received the vaccine booster are protected against the omicron variant. he didn't offer specifics beyond that. he added he will have more accurate and detailed information about the efficacy of the vaccine in coming days. in the u.s. the school board is expanding surveillance at four major airports to key an
eye out for omicron, and cnn has learned that the biden administration is requiring stricter covid testing for everyone headed to the u.s. so talk about these new restrictions. >> reporter: i think at a moment where there's peak uncertainty with public health officials in terms of what omicron will bring to the united states, some assumptions that it is already here at this point in time, is a recognition they need to constantly be evaluating in real-time what precautions they have in place and shift those if they need to. that's the case here. tightening, likely tightening the timeline for all travelers entering the united states. as it currently stands, vaccinated travelers have to have a test within three days of arriving in the united states. the president on thursday is likely to announce, according to sources, that timeline will be shifted down to one day, just 24 hours. i think what it is a window into more than anything else is we saw it with the travel restrictions to eight south african countries, now potentially shifting testing requirements for those entering
the united states. it is not a sense that they can stop the variant from arriving in the united states if it is not already here, but what they hope to do is buy themselves time. with so much unknown and so much to learn over the course of the next 10 to 14 days, the focus is trying to limit the arrival to the extent that they can, to give themselves time to prepare for what may come next. right now with all of these unknowns, these administration officials believe are the best options they have to try to accomplish that mission. >> it is not only inbound international travelers the administration is concerned about in terms of spreading a new variant. are there other precautions the administration is considering? >> reporter: when you talk to administration officials there's been a clear focus, both publicly and in constant deliberations behind the scenes, about how they can increase vaccinations, bump up boosters. they obviously want to ramp it up in the days ahead, but there's a significant amount of contingency planning underway according to administration officials, particularly as it
pertains to vaccines. there are ongoing discussions with vaccine makers about what a process would look like if they need to update or shift the vaccines based on what they discover from the variant. also, how to ramp up perhaps doing an entire roll-out of new vaccines if that becomes a necessity. keep in mind, cost assessments. all of that is going into right now what is happening behind the scenes. this is a moment right now where there's no question, everybody is hoping for the best, picking up anecdotal evidence they've seen from various countries and hoping it is born out in terms of what the variant would mean across the board, but recognizing that there has to be preparation for the worst. that more than anything else is what we have seen administration officials focused on, and i think that's what you are going to hear from the president on thursday as he rolls out his proposals for how to address the pandemic in the weeks and months ahead. obviously a winter season coming up, but obviously top of mind with everybody, anderson, is this new variant. >> phil mattingly, appreciate it. joining us is director of the national institutes of health,
dr. francis collins. first of all, what do you make out of what the israel health minister said that there are indications that people with the covid vaccination are protected against the omicron variant, no specifics. is that different from what we have heard in the last several days? >> not really. i think it is very early days and they're trying to see the first hints whether vaccinated people seem to have an easier time with omicron than the people who weren't, but the numbers are very small. i would not want anybody to look at that announcement from israel and say, well, now we know the answer. we are going to take several more days, look at lots more cases, try to really size up how much protection is coming from the vaccine and how much could come from the boosters. >> does south africa have anything to teach us in terms of that because sanjay was showing figures of hospitalization rates in the province johannesburg is in that show hospitalizations going up. he said he believed that the majority of those were not
vaccinated, people were not vaccinated. i'm not sure if that's -- is that your understanding? >> yes, i think they're still sorting that out. frankly, south africa has a huge amount to tell us and we owe them a debt already for being incredibly transparent about this whole process. keep in mind, we just learned about this omicron variant one week ago, and already south africa has been on the zoom calls with me at least three times in the last three days, telling us everything they know about what is going on. but they're still collecting the data. again, it is going to get better. i think what south africa can tell us in the coming days may very well give us some hints about just how much protection from vaccination and how severe is this particular illness anyway, is this mild as some had earlier suggested or was that just sort of the luck of the fact that most of the people who got it early on were young and relatively healthy? we don't know the answer to that one yet. >> yeah, i mean that's what makes the situation difficult right now because obviously in terms of reporting on it i
always think it is important to point out what we don't know often sometimes as much as what we do know. there's a lot we don't know yet. the ceo of moderna was not terribly optimistic today, telling the financial times -- and maybe of sounds like i'm clutching at straws, but there's so much we don't know. anything somebody says seems to be worth mentioning and trying to get more information about. so the ceo of moderna says he thinks there will be, quote, a material drop, end quote, in the effectiveness of the moderna vaccine against omicron. that shook the markets. a, what do you -- i mean what do you make of that? how do you interpret that? do you share that level of concern? >> i think we're all concerned that omicron has such a large number of mutations, more than 50, that all of the things we have done to try to generate immunity against this virus, this is a somewhat different animal and we're not sure if it will be as effective as we would like or not. but the ceo of moderna doesn't know anymore more about what that answer is than i do. we are all trying to guess,
looking at the letters of the code, how much of a difference is that going to make to the antibodies the vaccine has generated. i would say based on what we have learned previously about other variants like delta, that even when you vaccinate against the original wuhan strain, and especially if you give a booster, your immune system is very clever. it knowledge only boosts the level of antibodies, but it boosts the breadth of coverage that they have of spike proteins that your system hasn't even seen before but is now ready for. it is that phenomenon that i think is going to help us here. that's a reason, by the way, anderson, why we are all pushing as hard as we can for people who have gotten vaccinated but not yet boosted to do so. that's a lot of people. i think people are interested in that, but maybe delayed a little bit. you heard clearly from cdc, if you are 18 and over, you should get a booster now if it has been six months or more since you got pfizer or moderna or two months since you got j&j. this would be a great time to do that to get us ready. >> you know, this omicron
variant is just a reminder, i think, and i think it is an important reminder, that no matter what we do in this country, the weakest link anywhere in the world is going to affect what happens in this country in terms of the health of all of us and in terms of vaccine distribution. if the world is not vaccinated, if the world is not receiving vaccines and getting them distributed, we're vulnerable because what happens in, you know, rural botswana doesn't stay in isolated geographically. it now spreads around the world very quickly, and i'm not saying it happened in botswana. i'm just picking that country at random. >> well, you are totally right, anderson. if we needed one more reminder that we are all one family on this planet, here it is. what viruses don't really care about country boundaries and they spread rapidly. so, yeah, if we're really serious about protecting against pandemics we have to think about the whole world, not just our
own country. i got to say the u.s. has done more about this than all of the other countries combined. we have already shipped 275 million doses of vaccines to 110 countries including a lot to africa. interestingly, in south africa they're having the same problem we are in the u.s. they have enough doses, they just have people who are resistant to using them. this is a big problem for our whole plan et cetet, that we ha difficulty with misinformation that is causing people not to take advantage of life saving. we have to address that one, too, and it is not just our country that seems to have the problem. >> lastly, you know, this announcement of increased surveillance taking place at four u.s. airlines, the cdc announced that as well as the news top government officials are considering have more testing for international travelers including u.s. citizens, is that really effective? is that just making it sound like we are doing something when -- i mean what does it mean, increased surveillance at four airports? >> i think it means that we have the chance to reduce the number
of instances of omicron or possibly other virus variants coming to our shores, but let nobody imagine it is fail safe and it is going to stop the process. it will slow it down. it will reduce the volume of new infections that reach us. it is just good public health practice. it is something i think we all ought to support if we are an international traveler. yeah, welcome the chance to get tested and make sure you are not infected, because the problem with this virus is that it is so easy for people to be infected and not know it. that's why this has been such a hard pandemic to control. the testing is our best protection against having such people wandering around infecting other people or infecting them on an airplane as i'm afraid may recently have happened with a couple of planes that went to the netherlands. >> bottom line, the longer people choose not to get vaccinated, the longer this goes on. i mean that's the bottom line, isn't it? >> anderson, that's the bottom line. if americans are tired of this
and want to do something about it, as we are all tired of it, this is what you can do. if you're not vaccinated yet, start tomorrow. go to vaccines.gov. they will tell you a place near you where it is free. you can get started on your shots. if you are vaccinated and you are eligible for a booster, which is most people who are vaccinated, and you have not done that, do that again tomorrow, vaccines.gov. we have the chance as a nation to turn this around, but it is going to take all of us and we haven't gotten that kind of unanimous response that this pandemic is calling us to produce. >> yeah, i got my booster, it was easy, painless, no reaction to it. so i recommend and urge people to. dr. francis collins as well, thank you so much. more breaking news tonight. another mass school shooting in america. how many times have we said that? three students dead, a number of others injured. untold number of families' lives changed forever. a live report with the latest ahead, plus a witness who was at the high school in michigan when shots rang out.
also new developments on the january 6th committee's probe on what happened that awful day. a key witness plans to cooperate. only from discover. ♪ my songs know what you did in the dark ♪ ♪ so light 'em up, up, up light 'em up, up, up ♪ ♪ light 'em up, up, up ♪ ♪ i'm on fire ♪ ♪ so light 'em up, up, up light 'em up, up, up ♪ ♪ light 'em up, up, up ♪ ♪ i'm on fire ♪ ♪ oh-oh-oh-oh-oh, oh-oh-oh-oohohh ♪ ♪ in the dark, dark ♪ new cheetos boneless wings. exclusively at applebee's. [coins clinking in jar] ♪ you can get it if you really want it, by jimmy cliff ♪ [suitcase closing]
well, from what we know tonight authorities did everything they could as quickly as they could to respond to the shooting today at oxford high school in oakland county, michigan, near detroit. that's what we're hearing from officials and witnesses and experts in the field. response time was brief. everyone did what they had been trained to do, and yet those are the two saddest words we know tonight, and yet. we are getting a first hand look at what the students went through as a shooter took the lives of their classmates. this is video from one of the classrooms as students and teachers sheltered in place. heard a voice from the hallway, waited a moment, uncertain whether it was friendly or hostile voice, then fled to
safety. >> sheriff's office! need you to come out. >> said to come out. >> we're not willing to take that risk right now. >> i can't hear you. >> we're not taking that risk right now. >> okay. well, ocome to the door, look a my badge, bro. >> yeah, bro. >> he said bro. >> he said bro, red flag. >> go. >> go, go. . >> slow down. you're fine. >> go right out that door. >> slow down. >> i want you to grab that, you're okay. >> inside oxford high just a few hours and a lifetime ago. the latest from cnn's josh campbell. >> reporter: tonight three students shot and killed at
oxford high school, just north of detroit. >> around 12:51 take we received a 911 call of an active shooter at the high school. deputies immediately respond, and we received over 100 911 calls into our dispatch. >> reporter: a 16 year old girl, 14 year old girl and 17 year old girl all killed. >> i'm shocked. >> reporter: the suspect, a 15-year-old sophomore at the high school, firing off what is believed to be around 15 to 20 shots over five minutes. at least eight others were wounded and taken to area hospitals. the majority are in stable condition with two undergoing surgery. >> we also have eight others that were shot, in various stages at three different hospitals. >> reporter: the president weighing in from minnesota. >> my heart goes out to the families enduring the unimaginable grief of losing their loved one. >> reporter: according to authorities, the shooting suspect did not resist arrest and they believe he acted alone. >> this is every parents' worst
nightmare. >> reporter: no motive has been found and the shooting suspect's parents tonight invoked his right not to speak to the police. >> josh campbell joins us. what more are you lenk about the investigation into the shooter? >> reporter: well, we know from authorities that this is very much still in the early stages. we also know, as was just mentioned, that the suspect's parents went to the sheriff's station, invoking his right not to speak to authorities which makes their job more differicul. they want to glean information about why he did this. we know they're conducting interviews of witnesses at the school and scouring the suspect's digital footprint. tonight they're at the home of the shooter. they conducted a search warrant there, trying to glean any clue they can to try to get to the reason he allegedly brought a firearm to the school opening fire on fellow students. >> i appreciate it. joining us is abby hoddar dd, a
sophomore at oxford high school. i understand you were in chemistry class, you heard glass shatter. what happened next? >> after that i was a little bit confused, but i was under the impression that some glass had shat shattered in the chemistry rooms next door to us because it is an average thing to happen. but soon after i heard what sounded like pops, so i was still a little confused. then i saw my teacher run out and see -- i don't know exactly what happened, but then i heard him initiate our night lock system, and then the next thing i knew i was helping barricading doors with our tables that we have in the rooms. >> wow. and that's something you have -- i talked to another student, a senior earlier this evening, who said that he had been through multiple trainings of that.
you're a sophomore. you have been through these trainings as well? >> yes, we have been -- i think we have been through these trainings since around seventh or eighth grade. and that's -- i didn't really comprehend what was going on, but once we started pushing, like, tables i kind of understood what was happening just because of our training. >> this is a dumb question, but i mean were you scared? oftentimes, you know, in a situation like this it doesn't feel real. >> yeah, at first it was a little surreal and i just kind of prioritized the safety of me and the 20 or so kids in the classroom, and i just started helping with pushing tables. but then once we stopped and sat down, then there was nothing else we could do besides like hold things to prepare to throw them. then it really set in and i really started getting scared. >> at some point i understand
your teacher told all of the students to escape out a window of the classroom and run? >> yes. yes, he knew that one of the windows didn't have like a screen on it, just so that air flow could get in during the hotter days. from like knowing that the shooter was close, we knew it was a better idea and it was also part of the atlas training to evacuate if possible. so we all just slowly hopped out a window one by one and started to run towards something nearby. >> you had a few hours to think back on this. how are you doing tonight? >> it is a little surreal. i'm still kind of coming to terms with all that has happened, and i don't even know most of the story. so it is just kind of slow and surreal at this point. >> yeah. abbey, i appreciate you talking with us tonight. it is not easy.
i appreciate you taking the time and i wish you the best. >> yes, no problem. >> take care. coming up next, we will have more on the shooting as it develops. also more on the january 6th investigation. one high-profile possible cooperator, one high-profile non-cooperator and a court case hanging over it all that saw oral arguments today. ♪ i had a dream that someday ♪ ♪ i would just fly, fly away ♪
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the january 6th select committee spoke to one crucial witness today and obtained the potential cooperation of a second. the first, georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger tells us he talked to the panel for four hours. he is of interest as the former president, if you will recall, asked him to find enough votes to win the state. raffensperger refused because there weren't. as for the potential cooperator, mark meadows is now the highest member of the trump circle known to be working in some capacity, and exactly how much cooperation he is giving is unknown with the committee. committee chairman bennie thompson told us meadows produced about 6,000 e-mails and is scheduled for deposition next week. this comes as another high-profile official, jeffrey clark, refused to talk. he is citing the president's privilege case now before appeals court which heard oral
arguments today. here is some of the skeptical questions they gave the attorneys. >> you are going to have to come up with something more powerful that will outweigh the incumbent president's decision to waive. you're gonna have to change the score on that scoreboard. >> seeing that the current president has not only the confidentiality factor that he is thinking about but the current duty to the interests of the united states. >> joining us cnn legal analyst norm eisen, who served as special counsel to house democrats in the first impeachment of the former president as well as ambassador to the czech republic during the obama administration. are you surprised that meadows has reached this deal with the committee, and we don't know what level of cooperation he will be giving? >> anderson, thanks for having me back. no, i'm not surprised because
all of these events that happened today are tied together by the simple proposition that current presidents have the power over executive privilege, over whether or not documents or testimony can be heard. former presidents do not. so meadows was looking at the same fate as trump's former adviser steve bannon, who has been criminally charged with contempt for his refusal to cooperate. he doesn't want charges, the litigation and the possible conviction on his record. he knows that there's no executive privilege grounds to withhold, so he started cooperating. >> you've said the courts are not buying the former president's argument about executive privilege, but what if the strategy is to keep arguing about privilege until congress potentially changes hands? >> anderson, the good news in
this pattern of events is that not only are the courts rejecting the president's legal arguments, but they're rejecting his patented delay strategies, which we saw deployed against us in the litigation related to the impeachment. this case has been moving on a rocket docket. when they heard oral argument today, it was just 21 days after the lower court also rejected trump's claims. they were very skeptical. in watergate we went from the subpoena for the watergate tapes to a supreme court decision in a little over three months. that's possible here, too. so that's very bad news for trump. >> you have georgia secretary of state raffensperger's testimony. do you believe anything about his communications with the former president will come out of that testimony that hasn't already been reported or detailed in, you know, his book or on television already?
>> anderson, the facts of the raffensperger communication are known. we don't know exactly what questions he was asked, what documents he was shown, what new information. one of those 6,000 mark meadows' e-mails, for example, might have some piece of information raffensperger's shown that document and he -- he says something new. so it is critically important because that is the avenue, that is probably the single thing that donald trump did that is most likely to land him in criminal trouble. you can't say, as he did to raffensperger, just find 11,780 votes that don't exist. that's a potential georgia criminal trial, criminal matter, and we have an aggressive and effective georgia d.a. who is looking at it. >> and the january 6th committee is expected to begin contempt proceedings against the former doj official jeffrey clark tomorrow. his lawyer is claiming clark
gave president trump legal advice, quote, sacred trust and is therefore covered by executive privilege. >> anderson, again, as the court said when -- the trial court said when they ruled against trump's claims, the united states has president -- presidents, not kings, and donald trump is not president. the former president has no power to instruct clark to do that, and, in fact, the current president has said that clark may testify. so that argument just won't hold water. >> norm eisen, appreciate it. thanks. >> thanks, anderson. ahead, the moment that the supreme court will hear a case that could sweep away roe v. wade. that clinic's owner is here to tell us what happens if her side loses the case next. earn about ,
the more questions we have. the biggest question now, what's next? what will covid bring in six months, a year? if you're feeling anxious about the future, you're not alone. calhope offers free covid-19 emotional support. call 833-317-4673, or live chat at calhope.org today. in just hours the supreme court will begin hearing arguments on what could be the most abortion rights case since roe v. wade. in fact, justices could effectively hollow out that landmark 1973 law, affirming a
woman's right to end her pregnancy. this case centers around a mississippi law barring most abortions after only 15 weeks. under roe abortions are protected to the point a fetus can live outside a mother's womb, about 22 to 24 weeks. diane durses, owns the only remaining abortion clinic in mississippi and is a party to the suit. thank you for joining us. what are your hopes and expectations for how tomorrow may go? i know you can't be in the courtroom because of covid precautions, but there are particular judges whose reactions to the arguments you will be anxious to hear? >> i think definitely justice roberts, but the fact still is there that we have a court that is distinctly made up of anti-choice justices. that's certainly our biggest fear. >> there's the dispute obviously over the mississippi law, and the larger question of whether the court, if it allows the law to stand, would then take an additional step of actually
overturning roe v. wade. how likely do you think that is? >> i think it is extremely likely. you know, any -- up holding anything other than viability is still the standard, certainly overturns or hollows out, as you said, roe. >> if the mississippi law is allowed to stand, would would be the immediate impact to your clinic? >> well, we have on the books, i think, 12 other states do as well, an automatic trigger that abortion would become illegal. it is still on the books and has been since then. so that is -- that's the immediate danger. >> and if you win and the court allows the law to remain in effect, what do you think it means not just for mississippi but for the nation? >> well, if roe is still found to exist, i mean that is
certainly a major win, but you have to ask why would a court decide to hear this case if that's what they planned on doing. >> can you just talk about the clients that you have, what you are hearing from them, what this means just in practical terms? >> you know, anderson, since texas went down several months ago, we've been besieged by women coming from other states. so we are now open four to five days a week instead of our original three. you know, they're terrified. you know, the fact that we are now telling a woman that she does not have this option in her state and that she has to travel hundreds or thousands of miles to obtain medical care, it is unbelievable. you know, for women of privilege this is not a problem. women who have had money, have always had the ability to obtain
an abortion. but you are talking about poor white women, black women, brown women, and you are talking about women who have to take off work, who have to find child care, who have to find the money to travel distances, that it is absolutely incredulous we have reached a time where this is reality. >> and i understand that the people who work at your clinic meet regularly with members of the fbi to discuss security concerns. the court case, has it caused increased threats? >> i think it has certainly caused the anti-choice people to -- i mean, you know, they are on a win and a roll here, so they've certainly been far more aggressive than they have been in the past. you know, while the anti-choice people are winning, however, those of us in the clinic realize that we are in a much
safer position than we normally are. >> i appreciate your time tonight. thank you very much. >> thank you. up next, a woman who says she was sexually assaulted by jeffrey epstein and ghislaine maxwell takes the stand in maxwell's sex trafficking trial. plus, eastbound steen's former pilot named some of the powerful people who flew on his plane. light 'em up, up, up ♪ 'p ♪ light 'em up, up, up ♪ ♪ i'm onon fire ♪ ♪ so light 'em up, up, up light 'em... ♪ like many people with moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's disease, i was there. be right back. but my symptoms were keeping me from where i needed to be. so i talked to my doctor and learned humira is the #1 prescribed biologic for people with uc or crohn's disease. and humira helps people achieve remission that can last, so you can experience few or no symptoms.
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[coins clinking in jar] ♪ you can get it if you really want it, by jimmy cliff ♪ [suitcase closing] [gusts of wind] [ding] jeffrey epstein's former pilot named names today during his testimony in ghislaine maxwell's sex trafficking trial. the pilot, employed by epstein for nearly 30 years, telephoned he flew many famous people including former president bill clinton, prince andrew, kevin spacey. also taking the stand today, one of epstein and maxwell's alleged victims. the woman identified only as jane described how she met the couple at a performing arts cam and how they abused her over a number of years starting when
she was 14 years old. randi kaye joins us now. what happened in court? >> reporter: the one who they were calling jane was a young girl in 1994 when she testified about the chance meeting really as she put it at this summer camp, this arts camp in michigan. she says that jeffrey epstein and ghislaine maxwell came upon her at a picnic table with some friends. they started talking to her, and when they all realized they were from palm beach, florida, area, they asked her for her phone number. now, the prosecutor said she described them as predators, in the fact that they were asking her for her phone number. and then later she told the court that when she got back to florida, that she was contacted by maxwell and epstein and that maxwell began talking to her about sex. she was inviting her over to jeffrey epstein's home, his mansion there in palm beach, florida, and she testified that jeffrey epstein told her that he could introduce her to talent agents and that then next thing she knew he was taking her to his pool house where she says he took down his pants and pulled
her on top of him while he was mawas -- she testified she was terrified and ashamed. she had never seen anything like what she saw on that day. she described similar incidents as well, saying he touched her in her private areas and that she was also forced to touch him. she said it included oral sex and intercourse. so obviously, anderson, this is very disturbing. the defense in this case for ghislaine maxwell said that none of this was true and that they said -- they told the jury they should really doubt the credibility of this woman, jane, anderson. there was also this pilot, the former pilot of jeffrey epstein who testified he had been a pilot for epstein for nearly 30 years, and he said, as you mentioned, that he flew many of these celebrities on board the plane including bill clinton, donald trump before he was president, prince andrew, maine senator george mitchell, ohio senator john glenn and also the actor kevin spacey. he said he never saw any type of
activity involving sex on the airplanes for jeffrey epstein. he said that he never saw any sex toys, never saw the young women on the plane being disrobed or anything like that, but he also said that the pilot door was closed a lot of the time. the cockpit door. so it is unclear what went on these airplanes, but obviously the passenger logs, anderson, are key to the investigation so they can try to figure out who was on these planes, who might have been a part of this sex trafficking ring that ghislaine maxwell was allegedly involved with jeffrey epstein. but i should also note, anderson, none of the high-profile passengers who we mentioned are alleged to have done anything wrong or have any involvement in this case, this ongoing trial right now, anderson. >> and was the pilot able to identify any of the alleged victims? >> it is interesting. he did say in court that he testified that he flew jeffrey epstein to this arts camp in
michigan where epstein was apparently a benefactor. what is interesting is it is the same arts camp where this woman they're calling jane who was a young girl at the time placed ghislaine maxwell and jeffrey epstein, saying that's where she met the two of them, at that very same arts camp in michigan. he also said he believed he met this woman they're calling jane on an airplane back in the 1990s, on one of jeffrey epstein's airplanes. he said that epstein introduced him to her. he wasn't clear if she flew on the plane but she was on the plane at that time before they took off from palm beach, florida, anderson. >> thank you very much. joining us is criminal defense attorney sarah azari and former prosecutor laura coates. laura, in her testimony jane really described in detail how maxwell and epstein befriended, and randi was saying, groomed her before she says the abuse began.
>> let me start with you. the defense is using the fact that this accuser is an actor to try and frame her as someone who is playing a role and changed her story because of money. that's based on the strategy to try and hurt her credibility? >> anderson, we heard in opening statements that the defense case is going to be about money, manipulation and memory. in our cross-examination, the defense went right into money, the idea that this particular accuser has recovered about $5 million from the epstein victim compensation fund, the idea that if maxwell is convicted, she could potentially get more money. so that is absolutely probably the strongest thing the defense has, because the idea that she delayed reporting, i think they kind of went into that as well, delayed reporting, you know, not having the memory of exactly how many times maxwell touched her. the defense better not go there,
anderson, because as someone who has tried dozens and dozens of these cases, i can tell you it's a big failure. there is going to be a psychological expert, child abuse expert who is going to come in and explain why a victim of sexual abuse, especially a vulnerable minor, would wait with fear reporting. >> in her testimony, jane described that maxwell and epstein befriended her and kind of groomed her before the abuse began. i wonder what you made of her testimony. >> well, it was very compelling, because it corroborated in part one of the initial witnesses to talk about how epstein was more of a benefactor. he was using that as one way to describe him. of course, he was a prosecution witness, so you want that to essentially prove that he had this disguise as i benefactor as a way to entice people and had a
do duplicitous nature. i have tried many delayed reporting sex assault cases. the idea behind them as a prosecutor is to make sure that the jurors understand there are reasons to delay. there may be fear, there may be other aspects of it try to appeal to the notion that this is actually so traumatic that the memory is fully intact here. so every detail that she will be able to remember, there might be some that are going to be less clear than others, but they're trying to overall give a theme that this person, over a course of a period of time, was pursued, was groomed by epstein's partner in crime who is standing trial right now. >> so, sarah, do you think that's basically overall through this trial the defense is just going to go after each of the alleged victims? is there more to their defense? >> well, i think there is a few different parts to the defense here, anderson. i think, number one, they're going to go after the accusers
for the money they recovered as a motive of why they would fabricate or exaggerate. they're also going to bring in elizabeth loftin who i have used as a memory expert, and she's going to testify why their memory is distorted and contaminated over the course of dec decades, why their testimony isn't reliable. i must say she's testified in a lot of high-profile trials which led to convictions, and of course her testimony is compelling. this dates back to the '90s so it's a long time ago. the prosecution putting the pilot up first was rather odd. i don't think it helped the prosecution. it didn't hurt them, but it certainly didn't help them. he never saw any sexual activity. he never could identify any girls that were underage. as trial lawyers we go by the
premise of recency which means we put our best witnesses first to last. i don't think he really helped the prosecution much. >> laura, do you think the defense would put maxwell on the stand? >> well, you know, she's facing, what, more than 70 years in prison? and of course their whole theme in this defense, they even made sort of a biblical reference and said since the time that eve gave adam the apple, they've bep tryi -- been trying to answer for the actions of men, trying to show that she's scapegoated. he died of an apparent suicide and they're trying to weave this story and a theme that says she is the victim of an overzealous prosecution. they couldn't get the person they wanted, so they'll try and use her. if she takes the stand, she'll have an air and demeanor that shows that level of victimization. her demeanor, her tone, the way
she relays what she knows about the events that took place is so important because anywhere going to, as prosecutors, use memory as a way to try to buttress the credibility of their witnesses, to try to undermine the memory of these witnesses, they have to be careful with the way she is able to relay with specificity what she did not remember or did not do. in the courtroom, if her theme is that she is the one having to answer for what she did not do, taking the stand will be one of the ways in which you compel and persuade this jury to find it that same way. >> sarah, do you think she'll take the stand? >> look, the golden rule is don't put your client up, don't put the defendant up unless you absolutely must and you can't make your case otherwise. i don't think the defense needs to make that decision now, anderson. i think they can wait until the prosecution rests and see how the case goes. but it is a double-edged sword,
as laura said. one of the issues also with maxwell is that there were two perjury charges in the superseding indictment that were severed from this trial. the facts are still there, that in 2016, she testified under oath and there is allegations that she lied about knowledge of epstein's sexual activity. so that is sort of a concern in terms of the prosecution impeaching her. >> sarah, appreciate it, laura coates, thank you. up next, how you can support the cnn top ten heroes. no one signs up to be poor. no one wants to be born into poverty. >> it's different when you're a single parent. it may look easy because we have to put on this brave face every day and say we're superwoman, but it's extremely difficult. my son comes before everything. you don't expect your life to
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at the cnn heroes top ten tribute. i'll be hosting with kelly ripa on sunday, december 12. let's turn it over to don lemon. don? we have breaking news tonight. this is "don lemon tonight." we're going to start with breaking news. three students dead at a school shooting in michigan. i need to tell you we're awaiting a press conference that's supposed to happen at any moment. you're looking now at the podium that is in oakland county, michigan. again, a press conference. we're expecting to hear from the sheriff there or the undersheriff, the shooting happening earlier today. three dead, another eight people injured. kids killed in their school. it's really happened far too many times but we cannot become numb to this and we'll continue reporting on all the breaking news. how many parents sent their kids off to school not knowing this is the last time they would see