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tv   At This Hour With Kate Bolduan  CNN  November 22, 2021 8:00am-9:00am PST

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>> andrew mccabe, thanks so much as always. thanks so much to all of you for joining us today on yet another busy news day. i'm jim sciutto. >> i'm erica hill. stay tuned. "at this hour" with kate bolduan starts right now. good morning, everyone. breaking news in the trial of three men accused of killing ahmaud arbery. we are moments away now from the defense beginning its closing arguments. the prosecution has just wrapped up its closing statements this morning, which lasted just over an hour. the jury could get the case and begin deliberating by the end of the day. over the last two weeks, jurors heard from more than 20 witnesses including the man who shot arbery, travis mcmichael. he testified that he shot the 25-year-old black man who was jogging. he shot him in self-defense, he said, after he claimed that
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arbery attacked him and grabbed his shotgun. now, travis mcmichael, his father, and a neighbor, they all face multiple felony counts including murder. let's head back into the courtroom now. the judge is getting just under way once again. >> -- the use of force continuum and here's the different levels because travis testified to that. there appears to be some sort of use of force diagram that no one testified to or authenticated. there seems to be a picture of the entrance to satilla shores, then a photograph of u.s. marine or -- the u.s. coast guard symbol, which is what i quickly saw. so right now, your honor, i don't know what mr. sheffield is putting up, but i have great concerns e he's about to show t jury a whole bunch of stuff that no one's authenticated to or testified to at all. >> these are demonstrative things, judge. this is closing arguments. we have a lot of testimony about the law enforcement training center. we've had testimony about use of
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force. these are just demonstrative things. >> the only thing that caught my eye is the argument that this is what he received, not wa he testified to? >> right. these are just demonstrative -- >> there's nothing on those that show the coast guard manual or anything like that that would be -- for example, i know that the state presented a few of the pages from the actual manuals themselves. >> the only thing that i have is what i've created that shows he testified about officer presence, verbal commands, aggressive response techniques, weapons retention. >> and what is that? is that something you put together or --
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>> yeah. i've clipped it and cut it from things that i found. >> well, what's behind it is an orange thing that has physical fitness standards and search and it says objectives completed. travis mcmichael never testified to any of those things. >> he testified to his training and did those things. >> at the top, maritime law enforcement academy student profile report. that wasn't entered in. then we have that next to it. >> for official use only. >> i just intend to talk about the course that he took, the courses that he took that he testified to. >> there's more to it. that says student profile report. that was not testified to. that was not tendered in .
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i don't have any problem of argument what he testified to, but once we start getting into what the curriculum was or an individual report -- >> all right. how how's that? >> that looks a lot better. can you just go back. >> sure. >> can i just digest it? >> sure. >> i object to the heading on that since it attempts to have a photo of something that was never testified to. >> what photo? >> it has an image of some coast guard thing. >> it's what he went to school. he testified to it. what is so objectionable about that? >> he testified where he went to school and what he did in the training and testified to his rank, which i think is the other thing shown on there. >> right. >> if we can get back to it.
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than removes that part. the objection is granted in part. as that slide has been amended, i don't have any issue with that. >> okay. >> but the use of that -- what he's talked about. >> then the satilla shores -- >> please back up one more. >> this was his testimony at trial. >> well, wait a second. handwritten note base the attorney as to his testimony at trial? we're going to show this to the jury? >> of course we are. i wrote them right in front of him as he was testifying. these are the notes i took at trial, the same way i can show this one, judge -- >> those are your notes. >> yes, based on his testimony. i did it in front of the jury, just like i did this one. >> they're just what you're referring to. >> yeah. you saw him testify.
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>> so the unfortunate thing is when everyone is talking about and work through things, i can't think it through. so went you are using the slide to show is what his testimony was at the time. >> the state has chosen to type it up, type up what was said. you heard greg mcmichael say, you heard travis mcmichael say. this is my notes as i was writing as he was talking in front of the jury with the state present during trial. i do this because it captures what's said on the stand in a visual way and the jury can understand it. i don't see what the objection is. the state can talk about and type up, but i can't show what i wrote down during the testimony? that doesn't make any sense. >> i understand now what that was. i agree, mr. sheffield did write those things down on a big piece of paper and he chooses now to show it this way. the state is okay with that.
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the problem becomes the next photo of satilla shores, no one testified to that photo. >> are you objecting satilla shores is a neighborhood with a neighborhood sign out front? what's objectionable about that? it's just a chapter heading of what i'm going to be presenting. >> judge, my fear here is just that i'm going to have to october to every single slide when it comes up where no one's testified to i want or information no one testified to. >> i think we've just seen a number of things -- the state has a continuing objection to the satilla shores sign. i understand that's not in evidence. but it's the sign itself. if it's simply being used as indicated, as sort of a chapter marker, then i'll permit the defense to use that. the changes that have been made
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now to the slide that showed the training, what i understand now is limited to what was actually testified to. >> correct. >> and it will be referred to that way as opposed to here's the name, here's what the coast guard instructed him -- i will limit you exactly how prow yao present that. as long as it's not a presentation as if it was evidence separate from testimony that was provided by mr. mcmichael from the witness stand. and the use of force continuum is what you're using to demonstrate the argument as opposed to relying on that as a training device or something that was actually presented in training. >> right. >> okay. >> so, judge, i'm asking for a little direction from the court. these are just the first couple, so if there's some photos that no one's ever testified to that are in this, i'm going to october if there are other things. like, for instance, there's picture of the neighborhood and somehow they've marked every
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time a 911 call came in. no one temped to all the 911 calls in the neighborhood. but there shows all this. i don't know what kind of grafshg he'll show. i'm going to object. if it happens more than twice in this power point, i'm going to ask we stop, unfortunately, and have him go through every single slide, because at that point i'll be constantly objecting to his closing because its contains nothing that was testified to. that is my concern. >> i have a slide of the neighborhood that i've cree yay v year -- created and put circles on and things on it that are representative of the testimony of officer rash and the gbi and going door to door and neighbors who have been complaining about things. i'm not going to say the neighbor at this address called 911 on this date or that date. it's argument. it's demonstrated of my argument. i don't see any basis for the state to object. and i don't have anything else
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that's a photograph. >> i understand the issue. we'll see where it goes. >> thank you, judge. >> okay. if the state wants to object, that's fine. we'll doo with it as it comes, i don't think. i don't think it's objectionable. >> juror 219, ticktock videos. >> let's take care of that. >> it's available. >> okay. okay. let's go get the panel . >> is it on?
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>> we will all be frozen by the time we get to about 3:00 this afternoon, but i guess we'll wait and see. [ inaudible ] let's see if you get what you wish for. all right.
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>> all right. right now we are clearly waiting for the jury to make it back into the courtroom for the defense to begin closing arguments after we had about an hour of closing arguments from the prosecution. and what we -- just listening in -- but what we had seen playing out just now was attorneys -- >> let's go ahead and get the panel. >> okay. we're continuing to wait for the jury to come in. what was happening is an objection over some of the presentation that the defense was going to be using in making closing arguments. and these attorneys were fighting over what could be included. you saw the judge kind of making his way through that. as the panel is being brought in right now, let me just bring in -- let me just bring in catherincpaul callan, senior analyst. paul, i'm going to cut you off
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in just a second but your thoughts as we're waiting for the defense to come in -- to begin its closing arguments. >> i thought the prosecutor gave very highly workmanlike prosecution summation, and i think she was very, very effective. it wasn't particularly emotional, but it was factual. a lot of times you want to see that from a prosecutor more than anything else in a jury trial. after by the way, this little argument we witnessed a few moments ago very common with opening statements, what multimedia presentations are proper or not proper in a closing argument. >> julie, just your take on the prosecution's closing argument before we're set to hear from the defense. >> sure. look, i think within the first five minutes of her getting up before that jury she absolutely 100% debunked, destroyed the citizens arrest and self-defense. that's what she needed to do, and she did it so quickly, so clearly, and so quite frankly, that's why she didn't need to be
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up there that long. i thought she was brilliant. >> stand by. let's head back into the courtroom now. >> we're going to be using this large screen for the defense's closing argument. i just want to make sure, because we've had little bit of movement around in the jury box, that everybody can see, and that everybody's comfortable where they are. if you need to move, there's at least one seat in the jury box, we can move folks over if we want. if you're comfortable, that's fine too. with that, mr. sheffield. >> duty and responsibility in following the law will always be intertwined with heartache and tragedy. this case is about three things. it's about watching. it's about waiting.
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it's about believing. travis mcmichael spent almost a decade of his life learning about duty and responsibility. he received extensive training on how to make decisions that would ultimately impact his beliefs as a petty officer in the coast guard, as boarding officer in the coast guard, into some of the most treacherous waters extending some 200 m00 m off the coast of the united states. he trained relentlessly about his duty and his responsibility. even after active service and then coming into smaller communities and working with the coast guard, he trained weekly,
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sometimes daily, on what the law provided that he do, what his responsibilities were, how he would make decisions in critical moments of policing and in critical moments of rescue. these teachings were burned within his brain to the point of muscle memory so that he could perform his duty and responsibility to his country and his community. he talked to you about officer presence and how he trained with officer presence. he talked to you about verbal commands and how he would use verbal commands to try to police or troo to try to calm or to try to de-escalate situations. he talked with you about control
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techn techniques and the things that he would have to use to get control from those persons who he was investigating. aggressive response techniques, something that he never had to use on his job but something that he trained weekly, every friday with the redman suit. and he talked with you also about intermediate weapons, weapons retention and the use of deadly force. travis spent a long time going through these things in his testimony. if you recall, i was writing feverishly as i was testifying so that i could capture what it feels that he had to share with us about these things. it includes what gave him the right to search, examine, arrest, seize, inspect, inquire. he talked with you about the
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level of suspicion by a reasonable and prudent person given the overall circumstances to believe that crime has been committed -- probable cause. he spoke with you about the use of force continuum. he talked with you about de-escalation and how de-escalation was always the goal. he talked with you about leaps -- listen, empathize, ask questions, paraphrase, summarize. why? so that you can gain understanding, so you can continue to investigate, deegs ka late, learn what's going on, and figure it out. and he talked also about weapon retention in using a weapon, if it had to come to that, to de-escalate a situation. when travis moved back home to satilla shores, he did so with
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his 3-year-old son, everett. he moved in with his mother and his father and then eventually his sister joined them in the home. you heard about satilla shores from several witnesses who came to talk to you about what they were experiencing in this once idyllic neighborhood, a neighborhood that was once a place where the elderly would walk at night, kids would play after dark, but over time, how that began to lessen. and travis began to notice it, among others, about how things in the neighborhood started to change. from learning that the gbi went around to learning that officer rash went around to what was being posted on facebook, to hearing from witnesses on the stand, to hearing rash talk about driving through the neighborhood, witnesses talking
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about police cars going through the neighborhood at night, shining flashlights. this neighborhood was being covered in suspicious persons, in extra watches and neighborhood patrols, and concerned citizens. it was everywhere. it was on facebook. an account created so neighbors could help each other. and the types of things that these neighbors would talk about to each other was about the crime that was being committed to them, to their neighbors, crime they had seen happening across the street from them, crime that some was reported but not all. you heard a lot of people talk about i didn't call the police because what's the point? the crime is over and the people are gone. but they told you that what was
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happening in their neighborhood scared them. it caused them concern. it was unsettling to imagine people lurking and sneaking around your property at night so that your cameras are going off, your doorbell cameras are going off. that's frightening. one of our witnesses testified about how emotional she got because she had to tell her children, you can't go out at night anymore. and the steps that they took to protect each other using facebook -- hey, be on the lookout. you heard cindy clark testify about how she offered to go get license plates on two separate occasions for cars coming in the neighborhood or how she called the police on a bunch of people that were walking into the neighborhood after their car had supposedly broken down, but it was really stolen.
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these are real experiences, real people who were very scared. and so they took it upon themselves to do something about it -- got cameras, calmed the police, notified each other, citizens watch, neighborhood watch. and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. even travis himself had taken it upon himself to try to investigate one particular person that had been identified as possibly being homeless and living under the bridge. travel explained to you that he had learned about a neighbor having her purse stolen. of course, there were other complaints of crime in the neighborhood as well, and he
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thought, after boltating home o afternoon and seeing what he thought was a homeless encampment under the bridge, that this could be the guy. so he finished going home. he got his dad, who was a lifetime law enforcement officer and investigator, and they went over and they drove and they walked down under the bridge. and instantly, when travis did this, you saw evidence of his muscle memory. he talked about walking down, not holding a weapon out, not armed with a gun out, he had his gun with him just in case he needed it for protection, but he walked out to do what? use leaps -- to listen, to have a conversation. and as he walked down under the bridge, he saw a bunch of trash and a bunch of items and a machete and a man fishing. so he followed his training. he politely stepped in between the machete and the man, and he said, hey, bud, you living down
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here? everything okay? as he's doing that, he's looking around, looking to see if that purse is there, he's looking to see if other stolen items may be there. the man responded, no, just fishing. when they left, they called the police. you have evidence of that. you heard greg mcmichael on the call with the police, nonemergency line, just saying, hey, we want you all to check out this guy under the bridge that we called you about. the state asked travis, why don't you describe this fella for us? white, black, asian, hispanic? a white guy. called the police. he was gone by the time the police got there. and that was the end of it. but the man under the bridge or the idea that there could be a
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man living under the bridge did not go away. that theme and that person comes back during 2019. the real problem, as the neighbors and neighborhood of satilla shores were trying to figure out what was going on and who may be responsible for it, was that 220 satilla drive residence, a residence that had a unique type of crime going on in it, one mch different from what they had been experiencing. so dark you can't even see the photograph of it, but it was the photograph of 220 satilla shores at night along with the dock down by the water at night. and what all of these neighbors are going to soon become aware of is there is a repeat offender who is coming at a time when he
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has absolutely no lawful reason for being there. just to start with. on october 25th, larry english c calls the police, and we listen from larry english that there is a man plundering around. larry english at this time only has two cameras, one on the dock and one behind the house looking out in the backyard of the house. larry english says he looks drunk or on drugs. that's concerning. larry english identifies to the police, i have a lot of valuables in my house -- tool, equipment, things of that nature. never soon this gentleman before and it doesn't look good. the police come, but there is no person that is found.
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wa what you need to understand about burglary is burglary includes any house, building, or structure which is designed or intended for occupancy for residential use. this unoccupied, unsecured construction site, which could be anything, is not the same thing as larry english's residence that's being built. that's a term that the state continues to use -- the unoccupied, unsecured construction site, which doesn't even begin to tell the story of what this is. on 11/17/2019, two people are seen on the video. it's a white cup that will goes in and comes out. what's significant about larry english's report, though, on
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11/17 not that the two people that i saw on the video tonight have stolen something. he says we had stuff stolen about a week and a half, two weeks ago. he's now telling the police he had stuff stolen from his home. the next night, mr. arbery returns at night, pitch black dark, no lights on in the house whatsoever. and this time larry english has put cameras inside the residence. and now he sees and reports that mr. arbery is looking inside a boat, the same boat? no. no. that boat he got there on the morning of the 18th and he took it back to georgia with him. that's what he says right at the
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bottom -- brought the boat back to keep from stealing electronics off of it. he is communicating this to 911. this is official. he is reporting, again, we have a situation with the same guy a week and a half ago. says it right there. he was on about three people's cameras. and just to emphasize, on 12/1/19, english calls the police again. he talks about somebody might be living under the bridge. that idea is still floating out there. still considering it. but, again, he says, i had a bunch of stuff stolen out of the boat, which, again, confirm what is we're talking about. and on two of these occasions, we have video of mr. arbery inside the residence, first on
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the dock and the second inside the house looking into the boat. the video ends right there. travis mcmichael has his own horrifying experience with a man that he is about to learn has just been involved in all this stuff with larry english. he's been told some things by his mother and his father and other neighbors before this moment, but he's going to learn some things for himself on 2/11/20. on this night, travis is driving out of the neighborhood to go get some gas. he wants to fill up. before 4:00 a.m. on his way out, driving down the
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road out of the neighborhood, he sees a man run across the street and then duck into the shallows from this house, ducking through the shadows, through the trees, all the way across until he gets in front of this house. travel backs his car up and splashes his headlights up on the house. the gentleman steps be hind a port-a-potty. travis then starts to get out because he wants to say, hey, what are you doing here? the guy comes out from behind the port-a-potty, lifts hiss shirt up, acts like he's reaching in his pocket, and that totally freaks out travis, despite his training, despite his experience. it freaks him out. travis tries to talk to him. now, the guy never says, hey,
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i'm sorry, i am so sorry, i was walking my dog or i'm so sorry, did not mean to startle you, like any one of you would if you were out in the yard late at night. didn't say anything. just did this. travel got in his car, reversed out, stalled the car, but backed up and zipped home to tell his dad. as soon as his dad hear what is's going on, his dad decides to go check it out. at the same time, daniel perez has apparently been called, and he's going to check it out. they take firearms with them. travps tells you, he said, dad, whoa, wait a second. this guy could be armed. wait a second. but his dad is already walk do you think the street. travel gets in his truck, he backs up, he's calling 911, and
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he returns to the house where he puts the headlights on the house, watching, waiting, believing that this man could be dangerous, believing that his dad could now be in danger, believing that something awful could happen, so he posts up right here, lights on, and wamtds for the police that he himself called. and when the police arrive, he stands there and he talks to the police and tells them, hey, my dad is in there. travis, why didn't you go in there, in the house? he's, like, i'm not going in there. i'm not going in there when this guy did this. that was enough for me. i'm staying out here. it's a reasonable thing to do. ultimately, travis calls police and we hear what he tells place instantly on the phone -- we've had a string of burglaries, a lot of burglaries and break
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analysts. that's what he tells him. that's what's in his mind almost from the very beginning. he startled me, he reached into his pocket, didn't know if he was armed or not, he's sneaking behind a bush. he tells the officer he had a pistol stolen about a month ago. this is what he's saying. and you hear him breathing. and the operator says, are you all right, hon? yeah. he just startled me. that's a real experience with a guy going into a house after being seen at night with headlights and reaching and then turning around and going into a house that's not his? where is the logic in that? and travis then stays, talks with the officer, and then sees the video and sees this
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gentleman just walking around the house like he didn't just get stopped, caught, and seen and had this interaction with travel, like it never happened. he's just walking around the house very calmly. and travis feels that that is so bold and brazen to do that. it frightens him about this guy. it worries him about this guy. it's real. it's what happened. what happens next is the two officers show up, and being told what they've been told, that the guy acted like he had a gun and that he went into the house, they pull out their firearms and start going through the house looking and shouting and calling. with their guns out, because they might need to protect themselves. are they committing an aggravated assault when they do this? are they committing a false imprisonment when they do this?
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no. they're searching, looking, and trying to apprehend whoever is in the house who may be armed. then everybody meets outside and they talk. and this is where travis gets the rest of the information aside from his own personal experience. he and his father talking to officer rash, diego perez, matt albenze, ronny olson, and brandon gregory, the officer who also works with glynn county police. they talk that night. and they talk about what's been going on. and travel gets to see the rest of the video, and he's, like, yep, this guy is that guy, all the same guy. been break-ins, burglaries going on. he knows that stuff's been stolen already. and they have a conversation. you heard part of that conversation from the transcript. rash says, well, we haven't actually seen him take it. that's because there was no
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camera on it. but i guarantee you if one of you left your bag in this room and we all went into the hallway and i walked in here and you saw me walk in here and you never saw me leave and when you come back in you walk in, you go, where's my bag, well, nobody else came in here, but jason did, and the bag is gone. and, look, there's a back door. is it reasonable to believe that i may have taken your bag? of course it is. this is burglary. he says, i haven't seen him actually take anything. yeah, criminal trespassing, yeah, at the very least. traveltravis is thinking about ahmaud arbery. he's thinking about kwhab must be in his mind in order for himself to try to figure some things out. travel knows that he caught
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ahmaud going into the house. he knows that. and so ahmaud should know that travis knows that. he knows that ahmaud has been down on the dock and that ahmaud should know he's been down on the dock. and he's been on someone else's property. he's got to know that by now, travis is thinking. he knows it's not his home or his house under construction. he knows that he's been caught sneaking around the bushes. travis is the one that caught him. he knows there's been a confrontation about that. he knows -- he believes mr. arbery -- this guy, this man has to understand that these things are taken place, that he had headlights on him, that somebody was trying to talk to him about why he was out after dark in front of this house and he didn't respond. if i say to one of you, hey, how are you doing? and you look at me and walk away, you know you've looked at me and walked away. you know that's part of what's
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happened. and he still went in the house after being confronted in the dark. and then he looked around. he knows he's in the house looking around. and eventually that he'll be seen on the 23rd going in the house and that people were trying to talk to him and that he's not answering anybody, any questions. and ultimately, he knows that the police are there. travis knows these things must be in arbery's mind because they were part of a very real experience that he had with him. and because of that, travis is starting to believe and certain things in return. obviously, ordinary natural things that should happen in return. to constitute the offense of burglary, it's not necessary that a break-in happened, that
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something gets broken. if you recall all the questionings by the state of the witnesses, well, was anything broken? was a window broken? was a door broken? that's not what's required for law. those questions are meaningless and they are red herrings. nothing has to be broken. you just have to break the plane of the structure to constitute a burglary. then you don't have to show that an actual theft had been committed. nothing actually has to be stolen. you just have to enter with the intent to steal something. where do we derive person's intent to steal something from a house? well, they certainly go into a house that isn't theirs, that contains valuables, and they do it at a time when they shouldn't be doing it, and under circumstances that are very problematic, including running from other people who see you.
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lastly, larry english's deposition, mr. english couldn't be here, he's very sick. watching a lot of depositions is a hard thing to do. but the basics of this deposition, you made your neighbors aware, the ones that we've mentioned -- albenze, greg, ronnie olson -- you made these guys aware that you had stuff stolen out of your boat. yes. in fact, you wanted your neighbors to help you catch the guy. yes. diego. i wanted diego to catch this guy. you never told them at any point, hey, guys, i'm sorry, it wasn't stolen when it was at my house. it was stolen when it was off property. you never told them that, did you, mr. english? never told them that. you never announced it on
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facebook. you never announced it on nextdoor neighbor. you never corrected what you now say is it was stolen off site somewhere, you never told your neighbors that. and he says no. so, then, therefore, mr. english, to your knowledge, they were left with the impression that stuff had been stolen from your boat at 220 satilla? i guess so. what was ahmaud arbery doing in satilla shores from october 2019 to february 2020? there is no evidence that ahmaud arbery ever jogged or exercised in satilla shores, not one friend, not one family member, not one eyewitness, even rash going door to door, there is no evidence whatsoever that satilla shores was a place of exercise and jogging for ahmaud arbery.
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officer rash testified that by december '19 he knew larry had a cooler stolen, electronic equipment stolen from the offshore boat while it feels parked in the rv garage, and bob said, that's a burglary, a burglary has been committed in this residence, and he said that's right. but it was never reported. we didn't have a report about it so i didn't really investigate it. but that is a burglary, and he has admitted that to you as well. february 23rd. mr. olson's surveillance camera shows that mr. arbery walked into the neighborhood. didn't run. he then stood in the yard and put his hands on his hips and looked around like this and then went into the residence.
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matt albenze was doing work in his yard and he saw this gentleman who resembled the gentleman who had commit kwhad they thought was a burglary in that residence. he shut down the work that he was doing, put a gun in his pocket, grabbed his cell phone, and he walked automatic the way up the street to the corner where jones meets satilla, where he keeps his mailbox. and he stood there right next to this tree, and he called 911. at some point in the video, when you see mr. arbery run out, you'll see he passes right through the window, and mr. albenze is standing right there on the phone calling the police. his behavior then changes instantly. mr. arbery is at a full sprint, running into the neighborhood,
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running into the neighborhood. one can infer he's going on his regular job. no. because running out of the neighborhood is a problem. it's a problem now because there's a guy standing there on the phone, looking at you, back in the same residence that you've been caught in now three times. caught meaning on camera and police coming and searching with lights and travis mcmichael. and return to that house in the middle of the day like that, after being run off, imagine going to visit a house under normal circumstances. oh, this house looks like one we might want to buy. i'm going to go in there. then somebody comes up to you with headlights and tries you to stop you from going into the house and confronts you act it, are you literally ever going to go back to that house again?
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it is unreasonable to think that he's going back there for some lawful purpose after being run out of there three times before. so he doesn't run out of either of the entrances to go back across the street where he lives. he runs deep into the neighborhood. someone has called the police. now, travis has told you nothing has erased from his mind about this individual in the two weeks between february 11th and february 23rd. it's all still there. and while he's sitting in his home, his dad comes running in the house and says, "the guy who's been breaking in down the street is back. he's running past." "get your gun." travel and his dad carry their firearms for protection wrherevr they go. the law allows them to do it.
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they have permits to do it. travis testified he had a concealed permit at this point. the law allows this behavior. travel comes out to the street. he looks down the street right across. here he is at 2:30. he comes out here. mr. arbery has already run past. he comes out here, look downs the street from where the house is and sees mr. matt albenze, who is walking towards him and, eventually, after a couple houses, goes like this, and points down the street. it is reasonable to conclude that based on what his dad said, who just came running in the house, the guy is back who's broken in, to come outside and look and see, see mr. albenze, who he knows and he's talked with, who he shared thoughts and feelings about the person breaking in the house, is now saying go that way, the guy is back, to get in his car and go.
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you cannot act on the unsupported statements of others. the state has characterized that, which is an accurate statement of the law, as travis' mom. are you kidding me? after all that we have seen, after all that he has experienced, after all the conversations he's had, after all the videos he's seen, after what he experienced himself, that he's just going off of what his mommy told him? this is what the state wants you to do something about. this is what they're trying to inject into this case, knowing, despite that, that travel has called the police on the white
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man under the bridge, knowing that travis called the police on a carjacker or told his police friends when he was in the coast guard and a report was made about the white guy that tried to rob his truck, knowing that travel called the police about his gun being stolen and readily admits, i don't know who stole it, knowing that travis called the police on the 11th of february. they want to try to reduce this case down to this statement, which is not true. >> travis had all of this. his reading facebook, everything going on at larry inninglish's house, knowing about what was happening at scintilla shores, speaking to everybody on the 11th. officer rash and ahmed benzie,
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this is what he left his house, reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion, reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion. facts and circumstances towards a peru debt person, one taking care to understand the truth in believing that the suspect has committed the offense or burglary. travis believes he's committed the offense or burglary. the facts necessary to establish probable cause for arrest are less than those required to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. it's more than suspicion or possibility. it's got to be a probability, probably, and he said i had a probability. there was a probability that this was the guy who did it and here's why i think he did it, and i wrote down every one of
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the things that we talked about as he testified. i wrote them all down, and they are all encapsulated in that slide i just showed you. this is where the duty and responsibility in following the law becomes intertwined with heartache and tragedy because you do have the right to perform a citizen's arrest. do you have the right to have a firearm when you make an arrest. you do have the right to stop a person and to hold them and detain them for the police, and there is risk with that, and there are tragic consequences that can come from that and we can all sit here right now what the state has said from the very beginning and what travis himself recognizes. if he had only stayed home that day. if he just sat on the couch and fallen asleep with his kid that
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day. travis said there's not a day that goes by that he doesn't think that exact same thing, but the law allows the citizens to make a citizen's arrest, and if doing so properly, it is the reason for the action that followed. here you talk about an offense being committed in his presence or with his immediate knowledge. what could be more immediate than february 11th? what could be more immediate than seeing the videos of him in the house and talking with police officers and other people including hearing from layer english and others that he actually had stuff stolen from the truck. an offense has been committed and he knows about it. he's seen everything other than the hand on the equipment that was stolen. if it's a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, then you can arrest them upon reasonable
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and probable grounds of suspicion, probable cause. travis said many, many times it was the totality of the circumstances. that's his coast guard brain. that's his coast guard brain saying everything that i knew gave me the belief that a crime had been committed. escape. private citizen's arrest must occur immediately after the person trace of the offense, or in the case of felonies during escape. not every person is arrested at the moment they commit a crime. not every person is arrested by police because sometimes the police don't get there in time, but if they learn about the person and they have information about the person, escape can happen any time. escape can happen later. it doesn't have to happen right
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at the same time the crime is committed. there's no lou that says that. there's no time limit imposed. police would never be able to arrest anybody, and a citizen is in the same shoes as an officer when it comes to citizen's arrest. so, travis leaving his house decides he's going to follow. that's what he does. he pulls out after his dad crammed into the front seat with the kid seat there and he follows, and he watches, and he pulls up next to this gentleman. no gun is raised. no violence has ensued. he doesn't get out of car, doesn't tackle him. doesn't do anything, he does what a reasonably prudent person would do, he uses leaps and says, hey, man, what's going on? can i stop for a second. want to talk to you for a second. >> there's no violence. >> if travis wanted violence
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against this man f.travis wanted to hurt him or commit aggravated assault or commit a false imprisonment he could have done it right then and there. he doesn't help. talks to him. mr. arbery looks him in the eye, doesn't say a word, doesn't have to, but that's information for travis. is it so offensive to pull up to somebody and said, hey, man, can you stock, hold on for a second, is that so offensive? so he stops. he starts to go back one way. travis backs up alongside of him three feet away. not pulling in front of him, not pulling behind him, just tries to talk to him hand mr. arbery takes off running down the street. travis watches him. there he goes. doesn't take a gun out, shoot him in the back. doesn't take a gun out and commit aggravated assault, donned take a gun and try to kill him, doesn't try to hit him
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with his truck. he watches him, watching. so he pulls up next to him, and he stops again. he says hey, hey, hold on a second. just want to talk to you for a minute. something is going on back there. we want to know what's going on. he's not saying to the guy i don't know what's been going on in this neighborhood. to do that would do what, it would escalate the situation? so he just says we want to know what's going on back there. why is that guy pointing at you? why is he doing that? mr. arbery stops, he looks him dead in the eyes, doesn't say a word and travis just says we want you to stay right here we're calling the cops, calling the cops. . he called the cops. and mr. arbery bolts. now on the subject of police, travis told you. got in the car with my dad. i said, dad, are the cops coming? yeah, yeah, yeah. go this way. go this way. it's very clear. he said he asked his father about the cops being called. they call the cops all the time.
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this is not like it's a new thing for the mcmichaels to call the police. here when they say call the cops, now he bolts, and it's on that bolting that travis thinks this guy knows he's caught. he knows he's caught because he's bolting. he's looked at me and won't talk to me. that's odd. i'm not talking to him in too aggressive of a way and he bolts, and travis stays right where he is, and he watches. he watches what happens between his truck. he has no clue who this black truck is. in terms of evidence there is no evidence of any communication between these people, any cooperation between these two people, no help, no assistant, no encouraging, nothing. so he sees this truck and he tells you it's one of a couple of thing. it's either the guy from up at 220, it's his buddy, maybe trying to give him a lift or now
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that i'm watching him he's being very aggressive against this truck. he's watching it from 200 feet away, but he's thinking this guy is really being aggressive. this is something -- something off with this guy. his dad says travis, go. dad gets out of the car, climbs in the back of the truck with his rebuilt hip and medical issues. travis watches him gets n.looks down the street, sees this, puts the gun up on the floorboard and puts it on the front seat go, go, get down the street. travis says no. i'm not going back that way. something is off with this guy. i'm not going into that. well, if he wanted to go commit a aggravated assault and wanted to go do a false imprisonment, if he wanted to end the life of somebody whether it's murder or felony murder, there's another
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chance, but he doesn't. he just watches, and then he says i'm going to drive around. judge is going to courage on hijacking a motor vehicle, personally commits the crime of hijacking a motor vehicle in the second-degree when someone obtains a vehicle with without someone's his or her concept. travis is watching that guy get in that car in an aggressive way and doesn't think that looks good. whether he thinks it's a hijacking or not, it doesn't look good, it looks dangerous. travis also told you that when he came face to face with mr. arbery, even though he didn't speak, he looked very angry, he looked very upset, clenching his teeth but not saying a word. these are the notes i took about it right in front of you guys. just wrote it down as he was talking.
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stop, please stop. mad, clenched teeth, very unexpected. what's going on? i want to talk to you. police are on the way and his dad says go back there. i'm not going around there. i'm going from buford around the homes. that's what he does. he drives around. his dad is in the back of the truck. his dad is old and infirmed. he's sitting on this bench in the back of the truck. travis says he's going with his foot on the brake pretty much three owe four miles per hour, drives all the way around thinking i'm not going to go back into this mess down here. i'll drive around, and when he drives around you now learned about this dogleg. the black line is the dogleg, you can't see past it. the first thing he sees is mr. arbery doing a u-turn at the crest of that turn. what does he do? he watches? no, does he drive at him? no. tackle him? no. put a shotgun at him. no. does he yell at him? he's trying to continue to assess the situation in a reasonable prudent fashion,


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