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tv   Erin Burnett Out Front  CNN  November 16, 2021 4:00pm-5:00pm PST

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president again in 2024. but bar dell la also says there is just as good a chance the two of them will turn on each other, again. contacted by cnn, a representative for steve bannon did not comment for our story. wolf. >> excellent report, brian. thank you very, very much. and to our viewers, thanks very much for watching. i'm wolf blitzer in the situation room. "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. outfront next. breaking news. the jury in the kyle rittenhouse trial just ending deliberations for the day, without reaching a verdict. plus, republican congressman paul gosar set to be punished for his graphic video depicting violence against a democratic colleague and president biden. and a woman who backs election lies now running to oversee michigan's elections and she's got donald trump's backing. let's go outfront. and good evening, i'm erin burnett. outfront tonight the breaking new the jury in the trial of kyle rittenhouse just ending
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their first day of deliberations. the judge bringing them back into the courtroom moments ago. the jury telling the judge they were ready to break for the eke evening and they will, of course, return for day two tomorrow morning. the jury right now -- who knows what they did today but they are looking at five felony charges, in addition to lesser counts. and they are faced with a central question. was kyle rittenhouse acting in self-defense when he killed two men and wounded another in kenosha, wisconsin, last summer? before the deliberations began today, rittenhouse helped narrow down the jury -- they narrowed it down to 12 men and the women who will decide his fate. they picked six members at random who will, you know, they had 18. those six are now going to be alternate jurors, so they are going to remain but they are not going to be in the room. there haven't been many clues from the jury yet. what they did is ask for extra copies of the jury instructions. these are 36 pages here. 36 pages. the jury directions. explaining issues of self-defense, provocation. all of this, of course, both sides talked about during the
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closing arguments. >> you cannot claim self-defense against a danger you create. that's critical right here. >> every person who was shot was attacking kyle. one, with a skateboard. one with his hands. one with his feet. one with a gun. >> omar jimenez is outfront live from kenosha, tonight, to begin our coverage. omar, you were there in the courthouse today. what do you know about the jury? i know, just moments ago, they were released for the night but how do things stand with them and their deliberations for tomorrow? >> yeah, erin, so as you just mentioned, they were just dismissed after deliberating for close to nine hours on this day one of deliberations. early in the day, they asked for copies or extra copies of pages one through six of jury instructions. now, of course, that was significant because those are the pages that include some of these main concepts. these crux concepts here of
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self-defense, provocation. it also goes -- also deals with intent and the charges around joseph rosenbaum -- the first person killed by rittenhouse that night. it was later in the afternoon, they then requested extra copies of pages 7 through 36. so essentially, all of the juror instructions. to begin the day, though, we saw kyle rittenhouse, himself, draw from an old-school lottery tumbler the names or numbers of jurors who would be selected as alternates. some saw that as very unusual, that the defendant would be drawing those names, himself. the judge, just a few moments ago, came out and addressed that and said that this has been the practice in this courtroom for at least 20 years since he has been presiding over it, that he allows a defendant in a criminal case to draw the names of those who won't be the sitting juror panels. to do that, the defendant himself. so he came out and wanted to be adamant about that. outside the courtroom, we have seen some protests throughout this trial today. maybe, the most amount we have
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seen but still, overall, pretty small. some saying -- some calling kyle rittenhouse a killer. some saying the survivor, like gaige grosskreutz, is a hero. some calling kyle rittenhouse a hero but what is clear from the people that have been out here so far, no matter what the verdict is, some people are going to be upset. >> yeah. omar, it is incredible to focus on this. and prosecution, defense, obviously making their cases and now you have got it in the hands of the jury. but what is interesting here, i know from your reporting, is that you are learning more about what the defense did. they hired someone when they were, you know, looking -- looking at the jurors. who is that? why is that so important? >> yeah, that's right, erin. they hired a jury consultant who actually helped create the -- or helped consult on the jury, the 1995 oj simpson trial. that same jury consultant has been hired by the kyle rittenhouse team and has been working with them over the course of this, joe ellen
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dimitrius. oftentimes, next to wendy rittenhouse and her firm described it to me as she is helping or over the course of this, she helped create the perfect juror for the defense and consulted the defense on what that juror would look like, so that they would have confidence in their arguments that what they were saying was actually resonating with the jury. which of course, is all that matters at this point. >> right. right. of course. you know, some people look at jurors, they go how could you -- how could someone on each side agree? well, you just need one. you just need one. all right. thank you very much, omar, i appreciate it. and i want to go now to paul martor martin, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor. also with me tonight, stephanie rawlings-blake, former mayor of baltimore. paul, let me start with you. you heard omar. nearly nine hours for that jury on day one so this is the first six pages of the 36. they asked for this multiple times. then, they asked for the whole thing. they wanted extra copies. um, 36 pages. and it's -- it's complicated. i mean, it -- it -- it's
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complicated not just for me, you are saying, but also would be for a lawyer. >> it's difficult for a lawyer. >> so what do you make of their request? >> well, i think they want be to thorough. i think the jurors in this case want to really look at the facts and apply it to the law. and what better way to look at the law than have it in black and white before them? so i'm not -- i'm not surprised that they asked for the jury instructions. >> mayor rawlings-blake, you know, we talked about these instructions last night and how complicated they are. so, um, i would assume you agree with paul, right? they want to get it right. but, you know, it's -- it -- it's complicated. so, they are looking at this and -- and kind of going through it on this granular level of detail. which side do you think that that favors, big picture? >> big picture, complicated instructions i think favors the defense. as i said before, you know, the jury doesn't want to clean up the mess of the -- the prosecution or the defense. and when they can't make heads or tails of the jury instructions, you know, i -- people are frustrated. they're human. and i -- i wouldn't be surprised
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if they throw their hands up at that case. >> i mean, so, paul, the prosecution, in their rebuttal presentation which they made one of the last things, the freshest thing on the jury's mind, right, because it was right before they went in, suggested kyle could have fought back aggressors without shooting them. this is the argument they are trying to make. take a listen. >> no one is saying that mr. rittenhouse did not have a right to defend himself. punch him in the face. kick him in the testicles. knee him in the face. hit him with your gun. you don't just immediately get to shoot someone. >> prosecution saying he can act in self-defense without killing. >> right. >> that makes sense. um, but of course, you are in a situation here where the law allows for guns and vigilantes and i mean, does -- does that zsh how does a jury see this? >> the law of self-defense is pretty clear. you can use deadly-physical force when you are confronted with deadly-physical force. but you can't take out a bazooka in the middle of a fist fight.
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you have to use proportional force for what you are being confronted with. >> do you think this was compelling, then? >> i think it would have a been a great argument if they would have started with that from the beginning. it seems to me that they didn't drive it home during the course of the trial and to bring it um in summation may be falling on deaf ears. >> so, mayor, to this point, one of the more powerful moments during closing arguments, again, and i am emphasizing these because these are the last, the freshest things in the jury's mind, was when the prosecutor picked up kyle rittenhouse's gun. trying to show what he sees as provocation from rittenhouse ahead of the first shooting when rittenhouse shot rosenbaum. let me play that moment. >> this is the provocation. t this is what starts this incident. >> him putting the fire extinguisher on the ground and then raising the gun. >> so was that effective, mayor? >> i think it may backfire. a lot of this, we have heard what would a reasonable person do? and when that prosecutor lifted
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that gun and pointed it, i am sure many of the jurors -- or at least one of the jurors is thinking i would run. you know, i wouldn't charge. and is -- would a reasonable person charge at someone holding a automatic weapon? so i think there is a possibility that that -- that that prop might -- might not help the defense -- might not help the prosecution, sorry. >> a lot of people, first thing you would do would be to run the other direction. paul, let me ask you. another moment, of course, not on that final day but one of the -- the -- the most, um, important moments, impactful moments, of course, was when kyle rittenhouse rhimself was testifying and started crying uncontrollably. this is sure to be on jurors' minds, as well as all of ours as we cover this. let me just remind everybody. >> there were people right there.
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>> take a deep breath, kyle. that's when i -- that's when i run. >> how important is that to the jury? >> it resonates. it makes him human. so it's not unusual for a defendant to cry and it did it on cue. so whether it's crocodile tears or they are sincere tears, someone on that jury probably felt that. >> right and the point is you only need one person to feel it's sincere. >> all need is one. >> and mayor rawlings-blake, to the point of omar's most recent reporting, right, which is that the woman who helped pick the jury in oj simpson's defense trial worked for the defense team, right? and obviously, jury consultants all the time. but how significant could that be she does know this this well? >> i feel like if siri can know i am looking for some chelsea
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boots the second i think about it, i think you can get a consultant that will have a good sense of what these jurors are thinking about. you know, it is a science and this is someone who has a record of getting it right. >> it is amazing and it is -- it is a science, right? and, you know, you -- you both have dealt with this, right? you understand. thank you, both, very much. and next, republican congressman paul gosar, about to face discipline for posting a video depicting him killing democrat alexandria ocasio-cortez. plus, a woman who wants to be michigan's secretary of state calls public schools -- and i quote her -- indoctrination camps. >> you are forced to have your child exposed to all types of wickedness that these democrats and liberals want to teach. >> her biggest backer right now is donald trump and we now know just how dangerous -- how close dangerous space junk generated by russia came to the international space station while seven human beings were onboard.
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♪ it wasn't me by shaggy ♪ you're never responsible for unauthorized purchases on your discover card. tonight, a source telling cnn the house will vote tomorrow on a resolution that will censure congressman paul gosar and remove him from the oversight committee. he serves on that committee with democratic congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez. it comes after gosar deleted a video he posted to twitter
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portraying himself killing ocasio-cortez and swinging a sword at president biden. still, republican leadership is i standing behind gosar. here's what minority leader kevin mccarthy said today. >> he didn't see it before he posted and took it down. it was not his intent to ever show any harm. >> outfront now, democratic congressman jackie speier, who introduced that resolution to censure gosar. so, what do you say to kevin mccarthy and other republicans who are standing behind gosar? you heard mccarthy's reasoning that -- that gosar removed it and he says didn't -- didn't know it was up. even though, of course, gosar has defended why he did it. >> well, first of all, there was radio silence from kevin mccarthy and republicans for days after mr. gosar actually posted that venomous anime. and tacet support is equated to silence.
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as the issue got hotter and hotter, as the resolution got introduced, they then just took it down. now, subsequently, he has said publicly that he is not apologizing. um, he then said that he does not support violence. well, then why would you do something like that, that shows you killing a colleague in the house of representatives? and attempting to do so with the president of the united states? it crossed the line, erin, and that's why i felt so strongly about introducing the resolution. we cannot allow members of congress to promote violence against our members of congress. >> now, you know, you -- you -- there's part of your -- your life is -- is very relevant here. okay? um, you know, you said about gosar, you know, he is promoting the killing of a seated member of congress and you know, the reality of that danger, personally, right? you were there on january 6th. but i'm not even talking about
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that. you know, 43 years ago, on this thursday, you survived the jonestown massacre. you were there where 900 people led into a murder-suicide by the cult leader jim jones. you were a congressional staffer at the time. you traveled to the compound telt to try to help the followers, along with your boss and mentor congressman leo ryan. and you were shot, left for dead on the tarmac. congressman ryan was killed, shot 45 times. three journalists and a cult defector, all killed. um, it -- it's unbelievable to even have to say these things but this comes into it. what does it mean to you when you hear a threat, a threat against the life of a fellow congressman coming from within congress? >> well, it's chilling and -- and is they why it's so important for us, um, to draw that redline. to prevent this kind of conduct, moving forward. now, mind you, mr. gosar then actually sent out to supporters
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a subsequent e-mail, in which he chastised the resolution for being shrill. the resolution has pointed out what his conduct was. so, there is no remorse. there is no apology. and i fear that if we don't shut this kind of conduct down, someone's going to get hurt severely. and i just don't want to see that happen, and the house has become so filled with charged language. even members in the republican side challenging other members on the republican side for having voted for an infrastructure bill to benefit their districts. it -- it really is out of han hand. >> you know you announced today you are retiring from congress. you are the 15th democrat, congresswoman, to announce you are not going to run for re-election. you know, this is something obviously that comes from deep
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within, a decision you have made. but does the threat from congressman gosar, the -- the tone of washington right now -- have anything to do with your decision? >> well, it certainly doesn't promote me wanting to stay here. but the decision was really made very personal reasons. because i have been in public life, now, for 39 years. it's time to pass the torch to a new generation. i have a spouse at home who's put up with a weekend wife for 20 years. and he's now retired, and wants us to spend some time together and with our family and friends. so, it's -- it's time for me to go home. doesn't mean i won't be part of the community or active, publicly, on issues that i care about. i still am very committed to the work that i've done here in congress and in the state legislature in california. >> you know, you -- you have gone through so much in your life. and i know you have the great joy of your -- you know, your husband and your children.
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um, you know, i mentioned jonestown, which is incomprehensible to so many to imagine, the loss of your mentor. you were married, before. and your husband died in a car crash at the time you were pregnant with your daughter and you had struggled so hard to -- to have that pregnancy, i know. you -- you had -- at one point, you and your husband had tried to adopt a child. the birth mother changed her mind at the last moment. people hear all these things and say how could anybody endure all this? how could anybody get through all this? i mean, it truly is incredible and you survived. you continued to help others. you have dedicated your life to public service. what do you say to people now about how they, too, can persevere? and -- and why people should still believe in public service at a time when, frankly, um, a lot of people view it with disgust? >> well, that's in part why it's so important to shut down the kind of conduct that mr. gosar was engaging in. but i will say, you know, i wrotemy memoir a couple of years
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ago called "undaunted." and i really wrote it for a generation of young people to realize they could overcome virtually anything. um, i have had lots of ups and downs in my life. i must say that it has been such a privilege to serve the people in my district and in california and across the country. and i wouldn't change it for the world. >> congresswoman, i really appreciate your time. thank you so much. >> thank you, erin. and outfront now, van jones, former special adviser to president obama. pretty incredible to hear, you know, her speak. to think about going through what she has endured in life, and -- and persevered and thrived. it is -- it is pretty stunning. and yet, she is -- you know, she's -- she is going to move on with her life to -- to a better chapter for her. you know, but you heard her. the tone in washington, quote, doesn't promote me wanting to stay here. that's really damning. i mean, you know, washington is going to lose some really dedicated-public servants. you know, people who went in this for the right reasons and
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stayed in it for the right reasons because it's so dysfunctional. >> yeah. i mean, it's -- when you start losing the -- the good folks, the wise folks, the people who have suffered and endured. i mean, she's, you know, obviously, here in california, she's a legend. and she is a legend for the right reasons. i mean, she's -- she's somebody who really has been there. um, it -- it says there's something wrong. and i think that we are starting to now have a system where the good people are leaving, and the people who i think have the wrong values are getting elevated and louder and louder. um -- i -- look, 15 democrats doesn't seem like a big number. but we are still pretty early in the decision-making process. you know, i hope that we don't have a situation where you -- you start seeing, you know, people headed for the exits because we actually need people just to stand their ground as best they can and to -- to give the kind of service and kind of leadership that jackie speier's been giving so long. >> she is the 15th democrat to announce that she is not running. the house democratic caucus
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chair, hakeem jeffries, says this is redistricting, it's to be expected. we are going to gain ground and i guess you would expect him to say that, given his job. but a "washington post"/abc poll, the latest we have, van, and you saw these numbers, 51% of registered voters say they would support republicans for congress if the election were held today. 51%. 41% said they support democrats. 51-41. okay. no. it's the widest that gap has been in 40 years in terms of leadership for the gop. it's the widest it's ever been that's that's been measured. this is -- this is a big problem for democrats. are they hearing the messages out of places, like new jersey and virginia and other places or not? >> i -- i this -- i think so. listen. there is -- there is a public face where everybody's being, you know, brave and, hey, this is all going to turn around. but there, i think, is a lot of discussion behind the scenes. i think people are looking at maybe the way that we have handled the public-education
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crisis with -- with regard to covid. maybe, those shutdowns were -- were tone deaf for some working par parents, folks in the suburbs and also i think there is a real rethinking in terms of how are we coming across? i have said before, there is a way this in our earnestness, in our zeal, to help everybody, we can come across a little bit tone deaf. we can come across a little bit arrogant. i don't think our policies are unpopular. i think our posture with regard to our policies are unpopular. >> van, thank you very much. and next, a woman who backs the big-election lie wants to oversee elections in michigan. she and her debunked claims are backed by donald trump. formally. and former-president trump is trying to keep more than 700 pages of documents from that january-6th committee, and tonight his lawyer's taking a new tact to protect him. ride the wave? (judith) no - we actively manage client portfolios based on our forward-looking views of the market. (other money manager) but you still sell investments that generate
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tonight, a republican pushing baseless conspiracies about her state's elections in 2020 is now running to over tps see michigan's elections. and she has the formal backing of donald trump. sara murray is outfront.
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>> reporter: a vocal critic of elections now wants to be in charge of them. >> it is completely criminal. >> reporter: christina has not been shy in insisting there was widespread cheating in the 2020 vote, touting debunked claims. >> it is not right that hundreds of thousands of votes are allowed to be considered as lawful votes when we know they are illegal. >> reporter: and saying donald trump was the true winner in michigan. >> donald trump won michigan. >> reporter: unsurprisingly, she now has trump's backing in her bid to become michigan's next secretary of state. >> yeah. so i have president trump's endorsement which is massive. >> she's never run for statewide office but gained some national notoriety, after making unsubstantiated claims that she witnessed election fraud in 2020. >> i was a poll challenger at the tcf center. >> reporter: as trump eyes a potential 2024 comeback bid, he is backing candidates like caramo and others who have spread election falsehoods looking to replace the battleground state officials, who stood up to trump's attempts
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overturn the results in 2020. a cnn review of her podcast and writings on her now defunct personal website show extreme views beyond just the 2020 election results and review criticism of both parties. >> there are a buchlk bunch of traitors in the republican party. >> reporter: but the most inflammatory language is aimed at democrats. including michigan's current secretary of state. >> she is an evil woman. she is a very evil, evil, evil woman. >> reporter: staunch conservatives and intermingles with her religious beliefs. >> ultimately, thec culture war is really the most important war we fight. >> reporter: traditionally, the defense of christianity. among her concerns, evolving norms around gender and sexuality, views she often takes to the extreme. >> there is no such thing as a person with two mommies and two daddies. that is incorrect. >> in an august 2019 blog post, she called transgender women trying to play women's sports
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mentally ill adults playing dress-up. she suggested in a podcast that premarital sex paves the way for society condoning pedophilia. >> we normalize people fornicating and we normalize people living together with their boyfriends and girlfriends, all this stuff. we opened a door for us to get to the point where we have people want to normalize pedophilia. >> reporter: she's called public schools indoctrination camps. >> you are forced to have your child be exposed to all types of unbridled wickedness many that these democrats and liberals want to cheat. >> reporter: and is against teaching about evolution. >> evolution is one of the biggest frauds perpetrated on us. >> reporter: she also referred to herself as an anti-vaxxer before the covid-19 vaccines were authorized. >> guess what? i'm crazy. i am an anti-vaxxer. >> reporter: these views, now oh under the spotlight as she seeks the republican nomination. >> one of the things i am very cognizant of. you know, i am running a statewide race and i understand i have to win the hearts and minds of people who may not necessarily think like me.
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>> reporter: we reached out to see if she want today do an interview, as well as with a detailed list of questions for this story. no one got back to us and, erin, because a lot of this is coming up for the first time, it is still unclear how this could affect her candidacy. >> sarah, thank you very much. let me go straight to john avlon, our cnn political an list. michigan is just -- is just one of them. we just heard all those things just to be clear. trump has formally supported and endorsed her candidacy. >> yeah. no, this is -- this is the best and the brightest according to donald trump, which of course is just a proxy for the person who will suck up to me most completely. put aside the bonkers extreme social positions on any number of things you just heard. the issue is that she is running to be secretary of state -- the office that oversees elections. and she believes, without evidence, falsely completely, that the last election was stolen. that's disqualifying. it's disqualifying on a basic level, right? you don't -- you don't fly on a
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plane with someone who doesn't know how to fly. that's the equivalent in terms of overseeing elections. the other thing is this is in the context as you just said of an election subversion strategy that trump and his acolytes are pushing to try to overturn the next election. if these folks get in power, there is every expectation they would try to overturn the next election if donald trump runs that is beyond dangerous for a democracy. >> does anyone, given what we just heard there, right, have any question what she would do in such a situation? that's the point of her candidacy. >> exactly. >> so jonathan carl, of course, the great abc news reporter. he, according to the new book, sidney powell, the pro-trump lawyer, made a bizarre call. >> that's one word for it. go on. >> among them was this one that jonathan carl is reporting on. to a pentagon official to initiate a, quote, special operations mission. okay. wanted to initiate a special operations mission in germany to extract the then-cia director,
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gina haspell. this call actually happened. i mean, obviously, what she as requested didn't happen but the tact that sidney powell could request such a thing. >> uh-huh. in contact with the president of the united states and we should just emphasize to belabor the obvious that jeanah haspel was not being held and saying those words out loud in that order should indicate how insane this is. and really just all the details coming out really show when it comes to sidney powell and these other folks who the in the oval office egging on the president, at the very least, the bebst these folks are going to have is an insanity defense because it is completely bonkers what they were trying to say and pull off and, evidently, believed. it's just crackers. >> and yet, you still have people, you know, say ron desantis who will say if president trump -- former president is run, i won't run. even though we all know ron
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desantis would want to run, right? the governor of florida. but yet, there is still this step aside for trump. >> it's completely cowardly. it's completely cowardly. you know, james madison made an argument for the constitution saying ambition must counteract ambition. for all these folks that want to run for president to say no, i will step aside for trump in the hopes that somehow they will benefit from their loyalty if he decides not to run is nonsense. these folks -- if donald trump, in addition to whatever else he might say, attempted a coup against the united states of america. if that's not disqualifying, nothing is. if folks can't look at that person and say he is not qualified to be president, in addition to all the other reasons he's not qualified to be president. if they don't have the courage to stand up and call it out, they shouldn't be president. >> well, and there's one other thing they should know. their loyalty will not be repaid. it will not be repaid. it means nothing. thank you very much, john. next, giving congress too much power. that's what donald trump's lawyers are arguing in their new attempt to keep those documents from the january 6th committee. they got a new filing tonight.
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tonight, lawyers for former-president donald trump filing a new brief in his ongoing court case. arguing the courts would be giving congress too much power by handing over white house records to the january-6th committee. trump is trying to keep about 700 pages of documents from congress including visitor logs, call logs, handwritten memos from mark meadows. trump's lawyers warning quote, in these hyperpartisan times, congress will use this new weapon to perpetually harass its political rival. evan perez is outfront. and, evan, what else are trump's lawyers say inning this latest brief? >> you know, this is fascinating, erin. this is -- this argument from the -- the trump lawyers is se essentially taking on both -- two branches of government, right? the congress, which is asking for these documents from the national archives. and the sitting president, the white house. the executive branch.
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which has said that the -- that the congress can have these documents from the previous administration. and so, what trump is trying to do is saying that, essentially, he is trying to protect this and current -- the current and future presidents from -- from congress. he is saying that essentially by -- by letting congress have these documents, you are going to weaken the current president and future presidencies. and i will read you just a part of it and it -- and it -- the -- the document says today that this will have a direct and immediate impact on the advice given to presidents from president biden and all those that follow him. again, it's an interesting framing of this dispute which, again, has the former president claiming that even though he is no longer president, he still has these powers to claim executive privilege even though the current officeholder is saying no, these are documents that have to do with an extraordinary event on january 6th.
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and because of that, it's in the public interest for these documents to be handed over. again, this is now in the hands of the appeals court. the appeals court is going to hear -- we are going to -- we are going to see filings from the house, next. and then, they are going to have oral arguments on november 30th. we expect that they might rule in december. but then, of course, we know whoever loses is going to go to the supreme court. >> for sure, right? and of course, then it goes even long. evan, thank you very much. let's go to john dean, former nixon white house counsel. john, it's really interesting what evan is laying out, right, their -- the argument that the trump lawyers are making about not handing over this information, right, is that congress will increasingly, inevitably, use this new weapon to perpetually harass its new rival. don't do it, because when the shoe is on the other foot, it will happen to you. right? it's the most compelling argument they can make, yet as everyone points out, this is
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extraordinary. does their argument have any grounds to hold up, do you think? >> evan is correct that they have reframed it by stomping their feet a little bit louder and verbally, if you will,inate brief. but it really is the same old brief they just lost on at the lower court. by a very well-reasoned opinion by a very good judge who had a lot of amicus brief to draw on as well and some very sophisticated lawyers being the friends of the court in this case. so, it is not a new brief and it's really not a new argument. trump's lawyers are just saying you got it wrong at the lower court and that's -- so we are going to try it again at the court of appeals. >> so, you know, as evan talks about, it eventually goes to the supreme court, right? you have got a committee that feels very much that they have a ticking clock, right? they are under the expectation that they need to be prepared for democrats to lose the house next november and that their committee gets disbanded. may not happen but that's the working assumption they are under and they feel the pressure. all right. in that context, you have got
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this that's going to go all the way to the supreme court. you have got -- um, steve bannon who has made it clear and sending a message to people like mark meadows that he is going fight it. i mean, here is what steve bannon said when he was arrested. >> i'm never going to back down and they -- they -- they took on the wrong guy, this time. if the administrative state wants to take me on, bring it because we're here to fight this and we're going to go on offense. you stand by. you see how we're going to go on offense. >> so, john, lawyers are telling me that -- that that fight easily could go past the midterm elections just to -- just to find out whether bannon does or does not have to hand over information. does that mean that it's really possible that they are just not able to get any of these important players in time? >> i don't think so. i don't think, one, that the -- the current action, the criminal action against bannon will not force him to testify under any circumstances.
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if he loses, he -- he goes to jail. and he doesn't have to say anything. if they bring a civil action, which they might well do, they could well force him under a civil contempt, which could outlast his other sentences to either provide the documents or not. so, that could happen. as far as going to the supreme court, most people are kind of assuming, well, the supreme court will take this case. but not necessarily. this is the sort of area they don't like to wade into. this is not a well-briefed set of circumstances, either. so, they could -- they could well pass on this one. and that would expedite things tremendously if they don't. >> for sure. that is a really interesting point. >> yes. >> all right. well, john dean, thank you very much for the expectative. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> all right. next, violence escalating as polish forces try to stop desperate belarusian migrants from crossing the border. cnn's matthew chance was right there.
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>> reporter: i just got blasted with a water canon. i can tell you the tension. uh. and dangerous space junk threatening the international space station. you are going to hear the moment those onboard were warned to take cover. i'm linda, your quickbooks live bookkeeper. let's do this linda! sounds good! a live expert bookkeeper who understands your business. felipe, i've categorized last month's hair gel expenses. steve, i just closed your books. great, how are we looking? profits are up! on to next month. on to next month, linda! get your books done for you by trusted experts. intuit quickbooks live bookkeeping. growing up in a little red house, on the edge of a forest in norway, there were three things my family encouraged: kindness, honesty and hard work. over time, i've come to add a fourth: be curious. be curious about the world around us, and then go. go with an open heart,
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pushing back hard. i just got blasted with a -- a water canon. i can tell you, the tension -- uh -- has really started to raise here as you can see on the border between belarus and poland. you have got all these migrants angry at their situation. throwing stones. breaking down the fences here on the border. furious. furious, that they're not being allowed in to the european union, into poland. >> them give us flower, we give them flower. but give us gas, we will give them storm. >> reporter: at times, the vie l violence seemed to surge out of control. as young migrants, desperate to enter europe, tore at the barricades in fury. well last night, when we left this place, it was a peaceful
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scene. but now, the women and children have been pulled back and the young men -- angry -- have come to the fore. belarus is accused of orchestrating this crisis. directing vulnerable migrants, mostly from the middle east, to provoke these scenes to make europe look weak and inhumane. what they got was a dangerous escalation on an international frontier. they are throwing stones and see the poles are responding with water -- ow -- with water canon. covering us in water. sometimes, that water is quite acrid. it has some sort of pepper component in it, and so it's sort of stinging your eyes a little bit. they are smashing rocks on the ground to get smaller pieces, and then they are using those rocks to -- to throw at the polish line. but, however manipulated these people have been, their raw feelings of desperation of
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having nothing to lose are real. >> we are fighting to stay alive here. >> reporter: to stay alive? >> yes, to stay alive. >> will you go back to iraq? >> no. >> no? >> reporter: but after these events, they may have no choice. poland has made it clear, it will not let them in. it's belarus that may have to back down. well, erin, tonight, there are already signs that may be happening. belarusian security forces have moved into the area, and are clearing the migrants tonight away from the border region, and taking them to an indoor-reception center about a mile, mile and a half away inside belarus. they are going to get food there, they are going to get medical attention but they may also face deportation back to their home countries. >> matthew, thank you very much. incredible. glad he is safe. and next, new details about what could have been a
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their russian counterparts today, after a scare at the international space station. russia took out one of its own satellites with a missile. okay? and in doing that, they created a large and very dangerous field of junk, right? it exploded and then there is in space. more than 1,500 trackable objects. big enough to be trackable and you don't have to be trackable to cause a massive threat to the international space station. here is houston mission control delivering the message. >> our next pass through the debris, we estimate to be around 0706. the information we have right now indicate that is we will need to activate dragon safe haven and close centerline hatches for the next two crossings. >> nasa chief admonishing the
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russian space agency in a phone call today. i mean, it is pretty incredible, what happened today. that they could do this. the state department of the united states saying what russia did was a reckless and dangerous about that threatens the interests of all nations. >> thanks so much for joining us. don't forget, you can watch outfront any time on cnn go. anderson starts now. good evening. there is breaking news in the trial of kyle rittenhouse. the jury has just finished for the day. they will continue deliberations tomorrow. they did make some interesting requests through the day that we will discuss coming up. also, former new jersey governor chris christie joins us in just a moment. we will talk about state of the republican party, including what he says he would like to see far less of because in the last 24 hours or so, it amounts to plenty. late late-last night, we learned wyoming party will no longer recognize her as a member of the gop. that's after house republicans in washington earlier-this year removed her from leadership obviously

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