tv The Situation Room With Wolf Blitzer CNN November 16, 2021 3:00pm-4:00pm PST
also tonight, the fate of kyle rittenhouse is being decided on the first day of deliberations in his homicide trial. will jurors keep going into the night? a damning new confirmation of atrocities in nigeria following cnn's exclusive reporting on the brutal shootings of protesters by the military. a government-appointed panel is now calling it a massacre. we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." we begin with a new flurry of activity by the january 6th select committee as it fights to get cooperation and answers from diehard trump loyalists. our congressional correspondent ryan nobles is putting it all together for us. ryan, what are you learning? what's the latest? >> reporter: wolf, this committee has already issued 35
subpoenas to people close to former president trump. today their committee chairman telling cnn they're prepared to issue even more this week and they're also attempting to get mark meadows, the former chief of staff to comply with the subpoena request. the chairman saying he is signing a letter with the list of demands they have for meadows. tonight the january 6th slikt committee is weighing its options trying to find a way to compel former white house chief of staff mark meadows to come forward and share what he knows about the events leading up to the capitol insurrection. the committee has been frustrated with his lack of cooperation. last friday meadows blew off a scheduled deposition, leading the committee chair bennie thompson and vice chair liz chain nay warning that the next steps may be referring him to the justice department department for criminal contempt. it may force the select
committee to pursue contempt. while the committee has made their threats and discussed their options during a meeting tuesday morning, thompson telling cnn today they have not made a decision on the next steps with meadows. criminal contempt, however, is a step they've already taken with trump loyalist and podcast host steve bannon. >> this is going to be the misdemeanor from hell for merrick garland, nancy pelosi and joe biden. >> reporter: he kept up his defiant tone. his new lawyer, dave shone is the same man that defended the former president at his second impeachment trial. he's arguing that bannon did nothing wrong, that he was following the advice on his attorney. >> he acted on the advice of counsel. his counsel has been clear. he directed him not to appear and provide the documents because executive privilege had been invoked. >> reporter: select committee members believe it will send a
message. >> nobody is above the law. the vice chair has said that time and time again. we're going to continue this pursuit of getting the truth. stonewalling congress is not an answer, and that has consequences. >> reporter: meanwhile the trump legal team continues to argue against the release of the former president's white house records to the committee. today filing a legal brief in their appeal of a lower court decision finding the material is not covered by executive privilege and the committee should have access to it. trump's lawyers warning, the release of the documents has the potential of, quote, forever changing the dynamics between the political branches and arguing in these hyperpartisan times congress will increasingly and inevitably use this new weapon to perpetually har ras its rival. another development,
arizona congressman paul gosar set to be subject to a censure on the
house floor. ocasio-cortez was subject to a video that gosar posted on his twitter page that depicted gosar actually killing alexandria ocasio-cortez. the question is how many republicans will vote for this censure. one republican saying she will vote yes. that's liz cheney. she called out kevin mccarthy, the republican leader in the house of representatives, saying the fact that he's not come out more strongly against gosar's actions is indefensible. let's get more with our chief political analyst gloria borger. john cass sick, the former republican governor of ohio, is with us. cnn's jeffrey
toobin with us, the author of "true crimes and
misdemeanors: the investigation of donald trump". the committee is sending mark meadows another letter. how hard is it going to be for them to get the information they want from him? >> well, it's going to be difficult but it just got a bit easier because they now have new leverage. now that the justice department agreed to indict steve bannon, this threat of an indictment is now real. bannon obviously sees an environment as a marketing opportunity. he seems to be having the time of his life as a defendant. most people actually don't feel that way about being a criminal defendant. mark meadows lives more in the real world. the idea of being a criminal defendant is probably a lot less appealing to meadows than to bannon. >> i suspect you're totally right on that. gloria, the committee soon issuing more subpoenas. a member told me in the last hour they want information from
people with personal knowledge of january 6th. but could lower profile witnesses reveal more information than the high-profile battles going on with meadows and bannon? >> they certainly could yield a lot of information, wolf. i talked to a source familiar with the committee's thinking, and they want people, not just the meadows and the bannons who communicated directly with the president, but they're talking to people who are coming in over the transom who were present for certain meetings but were standing in the back of the room, who heard things, who overheard things, who were not directly talking to the president, per se, but did hear things he had to say and things that bannon may have said and things that meadows may have said. so i think this is very important to get not only the bright lights -- the bright shiny objects, but also the
people whose names you may not know but who were witness to certain things. i think that's really important. >> governor kasich, you're a former member of congress yourself. what do you make of the trump legal team argument just released that handing over his presidential records would give congress too much power? >> wolf, what's been happening over a number of years now is power has actually shifted to the executive branch. i think that's an absurd argument. the tragedy here is this should have been a bipartisan investigation, house and senate to get to the bottom of one of the ugliest days in the history of the united states of america. instead, it's broken down largely along partisan lies. here is the issue. congress doesn't have the teeth. so then they go to the justice department. the question is are we now going to be in a situation where, if the republicans win the house, they're going to be doing the same thing? is everything just caving in?
i think congress needs to think about the way in which they can have real teeth in these investigations, because if they keep relying on going to a grand jury, which is what they did in the case of bannon, how do they ever get anything done? there's a lot of questions and concerns that i have and i know people watching have as well. >> jeffrey, i want to ask you about this house vote tomorrow to actually censure republican congressman paul gosar for the animated video depicting him killing congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez. what does it mean for democrats to provide accountability? >> it's just part of the embrace of violence that has begun to pervade the republican party. it is a very scary thing. there is actually some real consequences to this censure motion. the censure is meant to be embarrassing, but taking gosar
off a committee is actually very significant in terms of his work as a congressman. the day-to-day work of congress is conducted in committees. if he can't serve on a major committee, that makes him very much a lesser figure in the house. so there's some teeth in this censure resolution, but perhaps the most significant part of it is that even though this is an acted out murder that he has taken part in, it's only the democrats who seem upset about it. >> governor kasich, you're a republican, the gop is turning a blind eye to the promotion of this violence by this congressman. but get this, the wyoming republican party voted to no longer recognize republican congresswoman liz cheney as a member of the republican party. does that make sense to you at all? >> i don't think liz cheney
cares. i'd personally fly out there to help her, whatever would help her. here is another interesting thing i think, wolf, i think the republicans right now, when you look at the way they've stripped this -- they have not been willing to look at january 6th, when you take a look at the way they behave in terms of gosar, by not condemning him, i tell you, the republicans are likely the people not following this carefully. p the people actually understood the shenanigans going on there, the unwillingness to condemn somebody that puts a meme up there showing him killing a colleague, it's completely crazy. i tell you, the republicans are lucky the people don't watch this stuff as carefully as we do. if they did, their ability to take over the house in my opinion would be in question. people don't support this kind of nonsense. they don't. >> wolf, there are also
republicans who want to strip republicans of their committee assignments who voted for the infrastructure bill in the house, a bill that is hugely popular with the american public. mccarthy had to say to them, well, maybe not now because mccarthy wants to be speaker of the house and doesn't want this infighting to break out in public. but imagine that. there are republicans who are saying strip them of their committees because they voted for a popular bill that donald trump opposes. that is what this is all about. it is about not crossing donald trump. so donald trump doesn't like liz cheney, so they try and say to her, well, you're excommunicated from the republican party. that is absurd. >> the leaders better watch, with these people they're picking on, the people they're going after, they're going to
create a rebel group that's going to fight them tooth and nail if they continue this nonsense. >> guys, thank you very much. excellent conversation. just ahead, president biden hits the road to sell americans on the benefits of the new law, the new infrastructure law. can he get his larger spending bill passed? i'll ask a key biden ally about potential setbacks that are emerging right now. stay with us. you're in "the situation room." that's what it does.
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coons of delaware. thank you so much for joining us. in a new poll, abc news/"washington post" poll after the infrastructure bill passed the house and the senate, 63% say president biden hasn't accomplished very much or nothing at all in his presidency so far. what does the president need to do right now, senator, to change that to prove this bill would really make a difference in e people's lives? >> what's going to happen in the months ahead is that people will see and feel the very positive impact this infrastructure bill will have on the american economy in every single state and community. he was in new hampshire today. he and other leaders from the administration, like the secretary of transportation, the vice president and, of course, many senators, will be fanning out to states across the country to make it clear and concrete exactly what the $1.2 trillion
infrastructure bill will mean for american families going forward. i'm not surprised the numbers are negative because the pandemic continues, because there are concerns about the economy. but with the bill signing yesterday, president biden has demonstrated that what he ran on, bringing people together to get big things done that will actually impact the lives of middle class americans is well on its way to being true. >> it was a very impressive bipartisan -- key word, bipartisan, infrastructure bill that became the law of the land when he signed it at the white house. the big question now, senator, is whether the president can get the larger spending bill passed, but democrats are expecting the congress budget office, the score that's going to be released in the coming days to show this bill will actually add to the federal deficit. will a bad cbo, congressional budget office score, send negotiations back to square one? >> they certainly won't send them back to square one.
it may mean there needs to be trimming or adjustments. wolf, we've come to a good place where this bill is going to tackle the of the co-s that keep middle class families up at night, the cost of elder care, health care, day care. it will provide universal pre-k. it will have an impact on climate change. it will make a significant investment in the future of the american people, american workers, american jobs and america's economy. i frankly believe this will be the most significant bill of the biden presidency, and i'm optimistic we'll get it through the congress and to his desk before the end of the year. >> it looks like it will pass the house. the key question is the senate, 50/50 as you know. moderate democratic senator joe manchin is pointing to inflation, saying he has concerns about the timeline of having this bill on the senate floor before christmas. will negotiations slide into next year? and should they be considering the inflation, the impact of
inflation that we're all seeing and feeling? >> wolf, we have to be mindful of the ways that rising costs impact people of all backgrounds and at all levels of our society and economy. as i just said, a core part of the build back better agenda, as president biden crafted it, was to impact the costs that working families worry about week in and week out, whether those are housing costs, health care costs or education costs. the build back better bill which at this point would be $1.75 trillion over a decade, will have a big impact on those costs. i'll remind you that one of the things senator manchin secured in the negotiations in the senate was a commitment to raise more revenue than this bill would spend and have some of that excess dedicated to deficit reduction. there is some running room for us to work with. let me mention one other big agenda item we're taking up this week. that's the defense authorization bill. senator schumer has taken a bold
step to make sure a bipartisan bill that was passed here in the senate in the summer is going to get attached to that bill and will be taken up by the house and sent to the president's desk. that's a bill that invests significantly in american innovation and manufacturing to help us be more competitive with china. frankly, wolf, if president biden gets those three bills signed into law, the bipartisan infrastructure bill, the bipartisan bill investing in america to be more competitive with china and the build back better agenda, that's a really strong profile of things he will be able to point to as we move towards the 2022 midterm elections. >> he's got to raise the debt ceiling by early deese. he's got a lot going on. >> a lot going on here. >> senator coons, i know it's your anniversary. happy anniversary. thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >> and to your wife as well. we'll have more developments, including a live report on the status of deliberations on the kyle rittenhouse trial including a
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we're closely filing the kyle rittenhouse homicide trial on this, the first day solve deliberations. let's go to cnn's sara sidner on the ground in kenosha. sara, what's happening with the jury as we speak right now? >> reporter: we're waiting and expecting to hear from the judge in the next few minutes actually, wolf. the judge said he would collect in with this jury to see if they wanted to continue to deliberate this hour or if they wanted to go home. he said it is really up to them. he's letting them, as he said,
run the show. they can decide to stay as late as they want or leave any time now. we're waiting to hear that. in the meantime they are still deliberating. we learned that they have asked a couple times for a couple different things. first they said they wanted the first few pages of the jury instructions and then they asked for pages 7 through 36 which is the entire jury instructions, basically trying to get 11 copies of that, which they have. they want to really be able, i think, each one of them to look at those instructions and compare the evidence that they have been hearing over these past couple weeks with what the jury instructions instruct them to do. clearly they're being diligent about this, wanting to be able to see clearly what the law is and how to apply that law. they have listened to so much. i mean hours of video, hours of testimony. more than 30 people testified
including remarkably the defendant, mr. rittenhouse. he took the stand and spent a day on the stand going through both the questions from his own attorney and, of course the cross examination from the prosecutor. we also heard from the one person who survived being shot by kyle rittenhouse. he made an impact, the defense using a lot of his testimony against him saying it proves that kyle rittenhouse did what he did, shot people in self-defense. this case taken up in closing arguments and wrapped up by both the prosecutor and the defense. now, of course, the jury has had it for about seven hours now, wolf. >> stand by to see what the judge has to say. sara, stay with us. i want to bring in cnn analyst and criminal defense attorney joey jackson .
how difficult is this decision before them? >> it is difficult, wolf. it wasn't made easier by the judge's jury instructions. they were very confusing. i'm not sure that the jury asked the judge for clarification right away. it means they're doing their jobs. there are also other difficult issues to tackle, like provocation. was rittenhouse the initial aggressor. they have to show he was doing an illegal act, something unlawful. when the court got rid of the charge of underage possession of an ar-15, then what is the illegal act? it's according to the prosecutors when republican party raised the ar-15 not at rosenbaum but at zaminsky and then the two of them chased rosenbaum afterwards. it's going to be up to the jury to decipher these hazy videos to determine whether or not the defendant raised that ar-15 at these guys. provocation is the linchpin to the prosecutor's case. >> joey, does the inclusion of
some lesser charges make the jury's job easier or harder? >> i think it makes it harder, right? here is why, wolf. when we talk about lesser offenses, briefly, as we look at the actual counts, that's what he's actually charged with. the jury may conclude he's not guilty of these but he perhaps is guilty of something as we look at the lesser offenses. they may say, well, he's not guilty of that, but he's guilty of something else. this is risky, also, because from a prosecutor's perspective, you get more bites at the apple. from a defense perspective it's risky, because if they're not inclined to convict of a top count, they may be inclined to convict you on something else. these lesser-included defenses are a big deal. i'm one that buys the notion that if the jury concludes it was self-defense, that he acted in the manner he did because he was in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury, his actions were proportionate to the threat posed and he acted
reasonably and they buy self-defense, i think then they have a good shot at winning. if they're murky on that, they'll then make a determination as to whether he's guilty on one of the lesser charges. >> the trial has gained enormous national attention, but the jury is not formally sequestered. is that a mistake? >> no. jurors hate being sequestered. because they're away from their families. we're trusting them to be impartial. it's such a hoe-profile case, you know many of them have seen stuff about this case, but it doesn't exclude them. it's just can they be impartial. if you sequester them, that may be bad for the defendant. well, if i get the wrong verdict, there's going to be violent or maybe someone will take action against me. as prosecutors we don't expect jury sequestration. it's very rare.
i don't think it will matter. i'm trusting the jury to do the right thing in the end. >> the 12-member jury consist of seven women, five men. if you're trying to predict what the verdict will be, does that breakdown give you at all -- you're an experienced trial attorney -- any indication? >> you know, it does not. i say that, wolf, because stereotypes are exactly what they are. jury selection gives you an opportunity to speak to jurors. don't tell me a stereotype about how you look, where you live, anything else. tell me what you do, what you read? what are you about? can you be fair? have you heard about it? i want to get a sense of who you are, not a sense that you're a man, a woman, from here, from there. but at the end of the day, what matters most is the individual. that's why it gives no indication at all in my view. >> sara, what's the scene outside the courthouse? >> reporter: throughout the day and including up until now, this evening, there have been
somewhere between 15 and 25 protesters who have come out, some who are rooting for kyle rittenhouse to be declared not guilty, others who think he's guilty, so they have their opinions on the trial itself. but the person that's been leading much of the protesting today has been jacob black's uncle who has been out here every single day. he is here because he says he's here to support the two people who were shot and killed and the third who was injured who were there in the name of jacob blake because of the police shooting in august. >> all right, guys, everybody stand by. we'll see p the judge makes a statement. we'll, of course, monitor that. there's more breaking news we're following in "the situation room," a major fda decision on booster shots for all american adults, 18 and older, could come as soon as this friday. we have new information. stay with us. kevin?!?!? hey, what's going on?
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there's breaking pandemic news we're following tonight. word the fda is now planning to authorize pfizer covid-19 booster shots for all u.s. adults, 18 and over by friday. let's lean in with dr. leana wen. dr. wen, thanks for joining us. is authorizing booster doses for all adults the right decision at this stage in the pandemic? >> absolutely. it is the right decision for individual health and for public health for the following reason. right now there is so much confusion about who should be getting booster doses. there are clinicians, patients who are unsure. and for the fda to say everybody, all adults should be getting a booster dose will be really huge to clarify the muddled messaging that never should have happened in the first place. we know that a third dose of the pfizer/moderna vaccine will
substantially increase immune protection again. especially as we're coming into the winter, into a potential new winter surge, we want to protect people from getting breakthrough inferkss, from spreading it to others. i frankly, don't understand why we couldn't have said that at the very beginning. really who wants to get a breakthrough infection and potentially have long-term consequences and be able to spread it to others? >> on average, it's really sad, 1,200 americans are still dying from the coronavirus each day according to johns hopkins university. cases are up 24% compared to last week alone. how concerning are these trends? >> we're not going in the right direction. this is exactly where we did not want to be coming into this winter, but we do have tools at our disposal. we certainly should be, for example, making use of rapid tests before people are getting together to are the holidays, getting a rapid test the day of will help reduce the number of
people showing up potentially infectious and able to spread covid-19 to others. and again, booster doses i think will be very important. people who are gathering over the holidays should plan on getting their boosters now so they're protecting those around them, too. >> even as cases climb, cities across the country including right here in washington, d.c. are starting to get rid of indoor mask mandates. is that wise, especially as you point out, we're heading into the winter months? >> well, the cases are going in the wrong direction. we really should be following the science and following the evidence here. it does not make sense if you're in a local community with lower vaccination rates and there are climbing infection rates, why would that be the right time for us to be getting rid of indoor mask mandates. there is an intermediary step which i hope cities and counties consider, where if you have a situation where everybody is
vaccination, a workplace or a school or a classroom where everybody is vaccinated, maybe for those settings indoor mask mandates are not needed. but in public settings that are indoors that are crowded with many people of unknown vaccination status, really there should be mask mandates still in place to protect unvaccinated kids and those particularly vulnerable. >> dr. leana wen, thank you for your expertise. we're grateful to you. coming up, cnn's exclusive reporting results in a startling admission of wrongdoing. a nigerian cower concluded its military is responsible for a massacre, repeatedly citing the results of a an in-depth cnn investigation. (naj) at fisher investments, our clients know we have their backs. (other money manager) how do your clients know that?
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tonight there is important new fallout from a bombshell cnn report. our investigation uncovered evidence nigeria's military fired into a crowd of people waiting at a toll gate in october of last year, killing and wounding several people. now in a highly unusual move, a judicial panel of inquiry in nigeria just concluded a massacre did, indeed, occur. its report cites cnn's findings dozens of times. nima, this is a damning report spurred in part by your reporting and your team's reporting. tell us more about the atrocities it found. >> it comes after a year of denial, obfuscation, and the
report has found a covert attempt at covering up by nigerian authorities including accuse cnn of being fake news and threatening to sue and censor us. our investigation found that not only the nigerian had used both live and blank ammunition, but intentionally fired at protesters. it's exactly what the report said. citing our original reporting, it says not only did the nigerian military shoot both blanks and live ammunition, but shot them with the intent to kill or maim. in a particularly heartbreaking piece of testimony, one of the survivors verified our finding that there had been a cleanup attempt at the scene, both bodies and bullets had been removed, wolf. this woman spoke about an appalling situation where she was shot, presumed to be dead and put in the back of a van by military officers.
she was able while in that van to have the presence of mind to count how many other bodies were being carried away. she said she counted 11 before she was able to escape. what we heard from the panel inquiry will be incredibly good news for survivors. weight they're telling us, wolf, that while this there is a sense they've been heard, but there is no sense of justice. for justice to happens, one survivor told us, there needs to be accountability. given how hard the nigerian aulkt thorts fought to cover up our findings, there won't be real justice as long as the nigerian government is in charge of providing that. >> bottom line, will anybody be held accountable? >> that is the key question. the recommendations on the part of the panel are very clear. they say those officers involved at the scene need to be sanctions, that there needs to be a human rights committee set up to look into violations such
as these, but also other potential violations and there needs to be broad scale police reform. as the survivors told us, wolf, it is the same entity, the nigerian government that is in charge of bringing in that reform. we, wolf, are continuing to reach out to the nigerian government to ask them for answers as to where they go to for now. we're also looking at secretary blinken and the u.s. is a key donor and partner in the war against terror in west africa with nigeria, wolf. >> you and your team have been doing amazing reporting. nima, thank you so much. we're also following a dangerous situation right now along the border of poland and belarus where rock-throwing mike grants clash with border grards
who responded with water cannons and teargas. tell us what happened. >> certainly was another escalation that happened earlier on today and the polish border force said migrants who have been stuck at that border for over a week now all of a sudden arm themselves with rocks that's actually a little less than a mile behind me. i am at the last checkpoint before that border crossing is there. now, the polls say that they responded with water canon. only after they were hit by those rocks but they also say that some of those migrants were also armed with gas and stun grenades. the polls are saying the only place those migrants could have gotten those weapons, those gas and stun grenades would have been from belarusian forces. they have been saying they believe belarusian strong man, alexander lukashenko, is actually steering all the things that are happening at the polish-belarusian border. that he is artificially manufactured what they call a
political crisis, and not a migration crisis. they also acknowledge this was a very, very tough day for their troops trying to keep that border seals. two injured severely. so obviously, another big escalation of that situation. however, they are also saying that border is going to remain shut and certainly they have no objective to open that border anytime soon. what you have, at the same time, wolf, is you have a big international effort by the united states, by the eu, to sanction and further sanction alexander lukashenko to try and make him back down and to make all this stop at that border. one of the things that could be a positive note right now, wolf, is that the migrants, of course, who have been camped out there and -- and it's really freezing out here, i have to say. so, it really is a dangerous situation, especially for the families and children who are still camped out there. at least, some of them have been able to go into a shelter for the night to have a roof over their heads. possibly, some blankets but that situation, certainly, not
resolved yet, wolf. >> yeah it's heartbreaking. fred, be careful over there. still ahead. we are going to take you inside steve bannon's history of defiance as the trump loyalist fights contempt charges and the january 6th select committee. (man 1 vo) i'm living with cll and thanks to imbruvica (man 2 vo) i'm living longer. (vo) imbruvica is a prescription medicine for adults with cll or chronic lymphocytic leukemia. imbruvica is not chemotherapy- it's the #1 prescribed oral therapy for cll, proven to help people live longer. imbruvica can cause serious side effects, which may lead to death.
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steve bannon is due back in court here in washington on thursday, as he vows to go on offense against contempt of congress charges. the trump ally, staying true to form, with a show of defiance against the january 6th select committee. the justice department and democrats. our brian todd is taking a closer look at bannon's history of fighting the establishment.
brian, what are you learning? >> well, wolf, as steve bannon deals with his new legal troubles tonight, we have new information on bannon's ascent in washington and what drives him to be such a beacon for the far right. >> i am telling you right now, this is going to be the misdemeanor from hell for merrick garland, nancy pelosi, and joe biden. >> reporter: this notorious 67-year-old political operative is now one of the most embattled figures in washington. >> if the administrative state wants to take me on, bring it because we're here to fight this and we're going on offense. >> as he vows to fight contempt of congress charges, those who have covered steve bannon and worked with him are not surprised that he is in the middle of this maelstrom. >> this is somebody who lives by confrontation, who believes that sheer force of personality is enough to undo our structures. >> reporter: tearing down the structures of government. stirring chaos in the political establishment are at the core of steve bannon's beliefs and his
goals those who have known him say. something, bannon alluded to as he started working for the trump white house in 2017. >> deconstruction of the administrative state and if you -- >> reporter: at that time, bannon's power and proximity to it had few rivals. credited with being the architect of donald trump's successful presidential run in 2016, bannon had gotten trump's attention, partially, because of his willingness to upend the gop. >> what we need to do is bitch slap the republican party. >> reporter: in the early months of trump's presidency, bannon had a top-white house adviser role. leveraged his relationship with trump to even get himself a seat on the national security counsel. was called by "the new york times" the de facto president. bannon found himself booted out of his white house job just seven months into it some say for committing one of the cardinal sins against donald trump. >> bannon's falling out with trump came because trump was jealous and resentful of the
media coverage that bannon was getting. >> reporter: but bannon eventually got back into trump's good graces by using his podcast and other platforms to amplify false claims that the 2020 election was stolen. >> biden can only win by cheating. he can only win by stealing trump's victory. we are not going to let it happen. >> reporter: and according to the house committee, bannon helped plan trump's stop the steal rally on january 6th partly by riling up the base the day before. >> it is all converging and now we are on, as they say, the point of attack. right? the point of attack. >> reporter: all this, from a man who, according to one of his representatives, was born into a family of democrats, got a master's at georgetown university, an mba from harvard, and served as a u.s. naval officer. what do you think it was that drove him so far right? >> opportunity and access and power and money and fame. >> reporter: there is a good chance steve bannon will return to the epicenter of donald trump's political world,
especially if trump runs for president again in 2024. but bar dell la also says there is just as good a chance the two of them will turn on each other, again. contacted by cnn, a representative for steve bannon did not comment for our story. wolf. >> excellent report, brian. thank you very, very much. and to our viewers, thanks very much for watching. i'm wolf blitzer in the situation room. "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. outfront next. breaking news. the jury in the kyle rittenhouse trial just ending deliberations for the day, without reaching a verdict. plus, republican congressman paul gosar set to be punished for his graphic video depicting violence against a democratic colleague and president biden. and a woman who backs election lies now running to oversee michigan's elections and she's got donald trump's backing. let's go outfront. and good evening, i'm erin burnett. outfront tonight the breaking new the jury in the trial of kyle rittenhouse