tv New Day With John Berman and Brianna Keilar CNN November 16, 2021 2:59am-4:00am PST
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i'm brianna keilar with john berman on this new day. the fate of kenosha shooter kyle rittenhouse in the hands of the jury. what to expect as deliberations begin. steve bannon lawyers up, promising a misdemeanor from hell. his attorney will join us live on "new day." wyoming republicans vote to no longer consider liz cheney a part of the party. how is that for cancel culture? why the chinese leader warned president biden, don't play with fire. ♪
good morning to you are viewers here in the united states and all around the world. it is tuesday, november 16th. i'm john berman with brianna keilar. kyle rittenhouse's fate is in the hands of the jury today. deliberation of the trial begin in just a couple hours. the jurors will be narrowed down to the final 12 in a random drawing using a raffle itumbler >> the prosecutor painting rittenhouse as an armed vigilante, an active shooter who provoked the violence. the defense portraying him as a frightened teenager trying to defend himself and the community from an angry mob. shimon is in kenosha, wisconsin, with our top story. shimon? >> reporter: that's right. brianna, this verdict sheet awaits the jury once the final 12 are chosen. it's 14 pages for the serven counts they must decide on
whether kyle rittenhouse is guilty or not guilty. in just hours, the jury will begin deliberations in the homicide trial of kyle rittenhouse. >> now you've heard the evidence, and it's time to search for the truth. >> reporter: the prosecution giving their closing arguments monday, saying rittenhouse was in kenosha, wisconsin, to start trouble instead of what he claimed that night. >> part of my job is also to help people. if there is somebody hurt, i'm running into harm's way. that's why i have my rifle. i need to protect myself, obviously. >> reporter: according to prosecutors, rittenhouse did the opposite. >> we know that mr. rittenhouse is going around that night trying to be a paramedic, a policeman, and a fiesreman, without receiving real training in any of them. tough job to do all three at once. he is a chaos tourist. he was there to see what was going on, act important, be a big deal. then the moment a little bit of
that chaos comes back at him, he cowardly shoots a man instead of fighting back. >> reporter: they focused on the ar-15 style rifle he carried, used to ultimately kill joseph rosenbaum and anthony huber and injure gaige krgrosskreutz. >> no serious medic wears an ar-15 slung across the body. that's because the defendant was a fraud. he was not an emt. he lied. >> he showed no remorse for his victims. never tried to help anybody he hurt. even on the witness stand when he testified on wednesday, he broke down crying about himself. not about anybody that he hurt that night. no remorse. no concern for anyone else. >> reporter: the prosecution also showing this slowed down drone video, portraying the final altercation before rittenhouse shot and killed rosenbaum.
>> you can see from this video that mr. rosenbaum is not even within arm's reach of the defendant when the first shot goes off. the defendant fires four shots in quick succession. >> reporter: for over two hours, prosecutors working to prove rittenhouse should be held responsible for the shootings. >> there is no doubt in this case that the defendant committed these crimes. the question is whether or not you believe that his actions were legally justified. and i submit to you that no reasonable person would have done what this defendant did. and that makes your decision easy. he's guilty of all counts. >> reporter: but for the defense, they say rittenhouse was only trying to protect himself. from people like rosenbaum, who they say was a threat to others at the protest. >> he was a bad man. he was there. he was causing trouble. he was a rioter. my client had to deal with him that night alone.
mr. rosenbaum was shot because he was chasing my client and going to kill him, take his gun, and carry out the threats he made. >> reporter: defense attorney mark richards arguing that rittenhouse killing rosenbaum was justified. >> kyle shot joseph rosenbaum to stop a threat to his person, and i'm glad he shot him. because if joseph rosenbaum had got that gun. >> i don't for a minute believe he wouldn't have used it against someone else. he was irrational and crazy. my client didn't shoot at anyone until he was chased and cornered. >> reporter: richards arguing the same for rittenhouse's attack of the two other victims. >> every person who was shot was attacking kyle. one with a skateboard. one with his hands. one with his feet. one with a gun. hands and feet can cause great
bodily harm. >> reporter: in closing, the defense also claiming the prosecution's presentation of rittenhouse as a dangerous active shooter was unfair. >> ladies and gentlemen, kyle was not an active shooter. that is a buzzword that the state wants to latch onto because it excuses the actions of that mob. >> reporter: the judge dropping a misdemeanor charge for possession of a dangerous weapon under the age of 18, ruling the barrel of the firearm in question was too long. >> it is not a short barreled rifle, yes. >> either by barrel or by overall length? >> correct. >> all right. then count six is dismissed. >> reporter: now, rittenhouse faces five felony charges. first degree intentional homicide, first degree reckless homicide, attempt at first degree intentional homicide, and two counts of first degree recklessly endangering safety. he has pleaded not guilty to
all. the judge telling jurors they are allowed to consider convicting rittenhouse for lesser offenses for two of the five counts. the trial could be nearing its end after 31 witnesses and eight days of testimony. including rittenhouse who testified in his own defense last week. >> i didn't do anything wrong. i defended myself. >> reporter: now, rittenhouse's fate is in the hands of the jury, who will decide what happens to the man who shot three, killing two. >> members of the jury, the time has come when the burden of reaching a just, fair, and consci consciousness -- scidecision wi be made. >> reporter: the judge sending jurors home with this unusual note too. >> you will pay no heed to the opinions of anyone, even the president of the united states or the president before him. the founders of our country gave you and you alone the power and
the duty to decide this case based solely on the evidence presented in this court. >> reporter: brianna, you know, those comments from the judge obviously paying attention to some of the attention that this case has gotten, as this community prepares for this verdict. we expect the jury to come to court 9:00 a.m. local time here, and then within the hour or so after that, the final 12 will be selected. then they will be sent off into the deliberation room. then we wait, which this could take some time perhaps. certainly, the court is bracing for a long day. this judge, you know, i was talking to some of the local reporters here who say that this judge is known to keep jurors here late. we could be in for a long night here. >> shimon, we'll be watching. thank you for that report. >> joining me now, legal analyst and criminal defense attorney joey jackson, as well as assistant professor of law at
brooklyn college, alexis ho. the prosecution had more work to do in the closing arguments. as the jury heads to the deliberation room in a few hours, what's the most important thing they're taking with them from the prosecution? >> thank you for the opening question. the prosecution really delivered. i think they used the weekend well to bring their narrative together. what they did was deliver a compelling story arc. that's what jurors want to hear. they want the evidence. they want the witnesses to make some sort of sense. their overarching narrative was you had this person coming in from outside, not defending their own property, not defending their own family, nor their home, bringing a gun, looking for a fight. then they peppered it with the highlights of evidence jurors saw, reinforcing repeatedly their story line and the story arc. we saw the drone footage. we saw it when rittenhouse shot,
initially, mr. rosenbaum. he was on the ground. he wasn't lunging or attacking. of course, that was the defense's characterization. so the prosecution actually really delivered. >> in 11 seconds, they summed up what they had a struggle making clear over the last several weeks. i want to play one sound bite from the prosecution. listen. >> you cannot hide behind self-defense if you provoked the incident. if you created the danger, you forfeit the right to self-defense. >> chances that the jury heard that? >> i think they heard it loudly and clearly. i think to alexis' point, i was quite impressed with what the prosecution did. they brought it together. they explained a narrative, and that narrative was compelling as to guilt. prior to going into closings, i was saying, "wow, it looks like defense will run away." now, they really tightened it up. two things would very much concern me as a defense attorney and have me not sleeping well
tonight. one of those issues relates to provocation, right? in the event the jury buys the argument that rittenhouse provoked this, thereby, he loses the privilege of self-defense. you were a guy who came in frommfrom out of town. you brought your gun. you had no business of being here. you thought you were a police officer. you weren't. thought you were a medical person. you weren't. you were using the rifle, pointing it at people, disturbing the peace yourself, bringing this, causing the chain of events for yourself, the provocation is troubling. next point, last point. that is the proportionality of the conduct. what do i mean? in a self-defense case, yes, you have to show you're in immediate fear of death or serious injury. second thing, the force you used was proportionate to the threat posed. prosecution did a very good job saying, you ripped apart rosenbaum's pelvis, right? he was going down. you continued to shoot, again and again. now, the reality is the shot was under one second, three quarters
of a second, but the manner in which the prosecution described it was such that you mowed him down. it was disproportionate. if the disproportionality element is present, guess what? you lose. so those are the two big things that concern me as a defense attorney. >> but, but i know the jury goes into the room with a whole bunch of different counts that they're supposed to consider individually, each on their own. however, that's not always how the mind works, right? so this jury, very likely, could go in there thinking, if this was self-defense, kyle rittenhouse is not guilty. and the defense put on a case that said, and with video evidence, and often what the prosecution introduced, in the case of rosenbaum, huber, gross grosskreutz, in each example, rittenhouse was acting in self-defense. he was being chased, a skateboard was being swung, or a gun was pointed. >> those are things the jury has to reconcile. juries will often go back and they'll want to split the baby, so to speak, so give the
prosecution a little something, give the defense a little something. here, the jurors have to reconcile the fact you have this person who is standing trial, came away from that evening basically unscathed. you have two deceased people and one person whose arm was nearly severed. when they showed that footage, that was striking. it is very difficult for a jury to go back and deliberate and not come up with something. they have five counts that they can deliver on. the top being first degree, intentional homicide. they were instructed that they can consider the lesser included offenses there. you have second degree intentional homicide and then you have reckless homicide. that's all vis-a-vis. so the jury actually has a lot of options here, and i don't see that they necessarily would convict on that top charge, but they have a lot to work with. >> yeah. >> joey, if they buy self-defense -- >> yeah, so i've been saying that all along. two things. two more things that concern me.
i said only two. the other thing that concerns me are the lesser included offenses, right? pa because, to your point, oftentimes jurors will say, you're not guilty of that. however, we'll compromise and make you guilty of something less. so they have more of a smorgasbord to decide what the issue is. next issue, obviously, self-defense, i talked about that already. to your point, and i've been saying all along, in this narrati narrative, if you can pull off from a defense perspective this was self-defense, john, you said it earlier, as to every single person, as to the person who whacked you with a skateboard that was coming for your head, it was self-defense. i was in immediate fear of death. it hit me in the neck. oh, my goodness, i fell down. the person pointed a gun at me, right? same person that you mentioned in terms of the arm footage, graphic, bad, right? what is his name? >> grosskreutz. >> grosskreutz, exactly. he pointed a gun. what can i do? i've demonstrated the imminence of the fear.
i demonstrated that my force was propor proportionate. i've got that. then with respect to the last person who grabs the rifle, so i'm one that views this, if the jury buys the notion that this was self-defense, nothing else to consider. don't give me lesser includeds. don't give me anything. he was under attack. the atmosphere was volatile. fires, riot, mob, boom. if they buy that narrative, i think he walks. >> professor, counselor, thank you very much. we'll watch. the jury goes in very shortly. thank you very much. violence erupting moments ago on a key european border. water cannons being used on migrants. cnn is live on the ground. and the lawyer for the man accused of killing ahmaud arbery requesting a mistrial because of who was sitting in the back of the courtroom. why the judge called the request reprehensible. plus, liz cheney, a victim of cancel culture, as republicans in her home state kick her out of the party.
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violence is erupting along the poland-belarus border, and thousands of men, women, and children are trapped there in freezing conditions. belarus is alose ccused of push migrants to the borders and preventing ing them from retre, a charge it denies. the european union plans to slap belarus with new sanctions as the crisis is escalating. matthew chance is live for us in belarus with more on this. tell us what you're seeing there, matthew. >> reporter: pbrianna, i was warming my hands and drying some of my cloaks off because it's been a tense, dramatic situation here on the border between belarus and poland. we've all been saturated with the water cannons that have been fired by the poland border guards onto these refugees, as they tried to storm the barricades. the border fence here, if i bring you up toward it, it's
been broken down by sheer force, by young men trying to get as close as they can to the border of poland, the border of the european union. look, the situation has calmed over the past several minutes. people have moved back. they're not firing water cannon anymore. rocks aren't being thrown nimby the r-- by the refugees. the troops are still on the border, absolutely determined not to allow these refugees to pass. look at them spread out here over this area on the border between belarus and poland. the u.s., of course, accuses belarus of orchestrating this refugee crisis in order to create a humanitarian catastrophe on the border. they say it's a cynical exploitation. this is secretary blinken saying this yesterday. a cynical exploitation of vulnerable people. the pols have made it absolutely clear that they are not going to back down, and they're not going
to let people through. earlier, we saw dramatic scenes here at the official border checkpoint, with people rushing forward, throwing rocks towards the barricades. the polish security forces, the border guards, the water cannon responded in kind, pushing people back with water sprays and pepper spray. you know, we all got covered in it as well. it's something acrid in the water which was stinging in the eyes, made everybody cough. you know, the result has been that it's pushed people back. so this has all been an expression of the kind of frustration that has been building in this camp, in these areas along the border with belarus and poland for the past week or so, since a couple thousand people started to gather here with hopes that they would be able to go through into poland and to get political asylum as refugees in the european union.
there's still some sort of tear gas in the air as i speak to you now. of course, that's not happened, so it's left them in this severely bleak situation on the border. there's very little sign at this point of any side backing down. belarus is still bringing people in. the pols, european union, are still refusing to let anybody out the other side. >> what's the temperature there, matthew? >> reporter: well, i mean, given it's the middle of november in belarus, you know, it's, fortunately, not as cold as it could be, but it is still well below freezing at night. the temperature is about zero degrees, freezing temperature right now. you know, in days, in weeks, in the middle of the winter in this part of the world, temperatures can plunge dangerously low. minus 5, minus 10, everyonn lown the depths of winter. this humanitarian crisis is running against the clock of the seasons. if we do get into a situation
where these refugees are facing minus 10, minus 20 degrees sent gr centigrade, though it is not ff fahrenheit, it is very, very cold. you know, some people have tents, thin ones, sleeping bags, but everybody is wet. everybody is hungry. >> yeah. >> reporter: they're using these campfires, as i was showing you earlier, to keep warm. you know, it's not enough to keep people going for an extended period of time. >> no. there are children there in that crowd as well behind you, we should mention. freezing temperatures plus water is a dangerous situation. matthew, we know you'll continue to cover this. thank you. >> reporter: thank you. >> amazing reporting by matthew. breaking overnight, two explosions rocking the ugandan capital. three people believed to be police officers were killed, according to a journalist on the
scene who witnessed the carnage. 27 other officers were injured. the first blast went off near the central police station. the second moments after outside parliament. a third device was found later and detonated by the bomb squad. the cause of the explosion is not yet known, and no group has claimed responsibility. new revelations. two members of trump's cabinet discussed the 25th amendment on the eve of january 6th. and steve bannon says the biden administration is messing with the wrong guy. his lawyer will join us to explain.
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and advanced security integrated on our activecore platform so you can control your network from anywhere, anytime. it's network management redefined. every day in business is a big day. we'll keep you ready for what's next. comcast business powering possibilities. breaking overnight, we learned the wyoming republican party, its central committee, voted to no longer consider congresswoman liz cheney a member of the party. the decision all stems from
cheney's efforts to hold donald trump accountable in his role in the insurrection january 6th. the vote was 31-29. joining me now, "new york times" washington correspondent and cnn political analyst maggie haberman. talking about liz cheney. step back, liz cheney, daughter of dick cheney, but in her own right, a conservative stalwart, thrown out of the party because she won't stand by one person. >> look, when the argument by kevin mccarthy was that you can't have a leader in membership against a leader in membership, it's more, you're not with donald trump. it was something different. the more you see this spread through the party, the harder it is going to be for anyone trying to challenge trump in any way going forward. >> it's not democracy, small "d," one politics, one man.
not something you see in the u.s. >> this is not how the two-party system works. it is not pledging loyalty to one person. i thought the vote would be worse than it was. >> 31-29 shows a near majority of republicans in the state willing to say, this is stupid. >> i think there are a lot of people who actually are willing, certainly privately, i've talked to them, you've talked to them, who will say, "this is a mistake. this isn't the road they should go down." fewer are willing to put their names on it. i don't know if this was a secret ballot, but the fact there are people in numbers willing to oppose this, it speaks to something we are seeing. there are people in the party who are uncomfortable with this drift toward supporting this one person over everything else. >> i want to come back to that in a second because i want to hit what's happening with steve bannon first. arraigned on charges of contempt of congress. he came out afterwards and said, this is basically the best thing that ever happened to me. let's listen. >> this is going to be the
misdemeanor from hell for merrick garland, nancy pelosi, and joe biden. administrative state wants to take me on, bring it. we're here to fight this, and we're going to go on offense. you stand by. >> okay. a, what is he doing here? >> so he's clearly having the time of his life, to some extent, turning this into a circus, right? turning this into some effort to be a martyr. normally, you don't see a defendant say things like that after an arraignment. you see the lawyer talk, and it is more restrained. his lawyer has been talking, but bannon is using this to galvanize support for brannon, s he often does. >> david schoen will be on the show later talking to brianna. i understand you have reporting on whose idea it was to get him -- and he was one of trump's impeachment lawyers in february, second impeachment lawyers. whose idea was it to get him connected to bannon? >> i don't know whose idea it was. i have reporting that trump
asked schoen to get involved in this, and schoen said yes. schoen, who did trump's impeachment, the second one, would not have been involved if trump had not wanted him to. trump is, you know, giving him this nudge and asking him to take the case, telling you where trump is in terms of bannon. trump over four years has been all over the map on steve bannon. recently, he's turned into a supporter of his, as bannon has been more vocally supportive of trump. and so i think that is what you're seeing. what it means for the privilege fight, i don't think we can take a guess at that. i do think people read into that. >> how much time we got? i want to know if i can play the full -- okay. chris christie, i want to play a little sound of chris christie talking to dana bash last night. did a special about chris christie, what he is thinking, will he run, would he take on trump. play a little sound from that. >> with all due respect, that sounds like a cop-out. >> i'm sure you think it is a cop-out. you know what? i also know there's no reason to create tumult in a party that already has a lot of tumult in
it. >> all right. the question there was, would he take on donald trump if trump ran for president. he dodges the question. what is most interesting to me about chris christie isn't about christie himself. it's the idea that he is willing, to an extent, to directly criticize donald trump. it makes me wonder now whether something has changed over the last few weeks, where there are serious republicans -- say what you want about chris christie, but he is a serious republican -- who think there is an avenue to take him on. >> maybe not directly for themselves in terms of running, but at least to confront what he has been saying and what he represents in terms of the party going forward. i interviewed chris christie recently as well. he made some very similar points. what he did say to me was the victory in virginia by glenn youngkin and the fact that new jersey's gubernatorial race was as close as it was, those are two blue states -- not entirely the same but they're still blue states -- shows you there is some window for people who want
to talk about issues as opposed to talking about donald trump and the things donald trump wants to talk about. that was very much where he was speaking. >> if it is just chris christie, that's one thing. if it is christie and someone else, then someone else, it's another. >> that's right. >> as they perceive joe biden, whose approval rating is not good right now, perhaps to be weakened, it makes me wonder if they think they don't need donald trump. if that's a hassle they may not need or want to deal with going forward in 2024. >> we're a ways away from voters getting to that point, but i do think there are a lot of people who remain very tired and exhausted by the trump years. among republicans, not necessarily trump's hardest core base. look, being off twitter has been a blessing for trump. it means his statements are not in everybody's face all the time, and they get to tell themselves it's not really that bad. you and i can get his statements and know what he is saying, and it is the same when he was on twitter. the more people get a reminder of trump and his conduct, i think you will see that when there is a report by the january 6th committee, which there will
be, i think you will have r reminders of why people got tired by the end. >> maggie haberman, thanks for coming in. steve bannon's attorney, david schoen, will join us live later in the broadcast. the virtual summit between presidents biden and xi leads to a warning from the chinese leader. why he is telling the u.s. not to play with fire. and why nancy pelosi is warning house members they may not be leaving washington over the thanksgiving holiday. c'mon caleb, you got this! and if you don't, there are other options! umpire: ball! good eye! good eye! eyes are good for lots of things. like reading! be the best, caleb! statistically impossible, caleb. umpire: strike three, you're out! you'll get 'em next time! or you won't, probably won't. and it won't impact your future whatsoever! talk to us about college planning today. feel comfortable about tomorrow.
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intended or unintended, just simple, straightforward competition. our pibilateral relationship evolves, seems to me it'll have a profound impact on our countries and the rest of the world. >> president biden addressing president xi during their virtual summit. a senior white house official says the two leaders had a healthy debate, but there were no breakthroughs. the chinese president did have a warning for president biden. joining me now, cnn's david culver, live in beijing, and jeremy diamond live at the white house. jeremy, what is the word from the white house about this meeting? >> reporter: olymlisten, a seni administration official describing this as a healthy debate between the leaders and an opportunity to talk about the areas of agreement, areas of disagreement, most importantly, and also for president biden, as you just heard there, to make very clear how he sees the u.s.-china relationship. one of competition but not one that will devolve into outright
conflict. that was a key part here. president biden talking about the need to establish guardrails in the u.s.-china relationship. although, this meeting didn't produce those guardrails or any breakthroughs, nor, frankly, were any expected based on how senior officials were describing the plans for this meeting ahead of time. but a range of issues, as you see there on the screen, being discussed. everything from the tensions over taiwan to human rights issues that president biden made clear he was going to raise with president xi, as well as also potential areas of cooperation on climate change, for example. the taiwan issue was, of course, especially important after president biden, during a cnn town hall earlier this fall, said that the u.s. would come to taiwan's defense if it were attacked by china. the white house then had to walk that back, and president biden making clear in this meeting that the u.s. one china policy applies. meaning the u.s. officially recognizes china, mainland china, not the republic in
taiwan. >> you know, the one thing this meeting did produce was this meeting, which, david, is seen largely as a win for china. what issaying about this? >> reporter: right. out of all of this, john, you have dialogue, so that's something. it's interesting to look at the timing of all this because it was about 3 1/2 hours all together. you're talking about very in-depth topics that they had to go into. you're averaging about 25, 30 minutes for each of the seven or eight topics that were dcovered. obviously, it wasn't split equally, but it is heavy ground to cover. the biggest issue for china, that red line, as jeremy mentioned, that's taiwan. that is something that they just will not allow, any suggestion that taiwan will breakaway in its independence, though it is a self-governing democracy. it doesn't go over well in beijing. beijing has an idea it'll be reunified, though it was never controlled by the chinese communist party. nevertheless, they have plans for that reunification, and
that's what drew that strong line that you mentioned off the top there, john. it came from president xi and chinese foreign ministry is putting this out, getting a lot of headlines in state media. i'll read part of it. it says, such moves regarding taiwan are extremely dangerous, just like playing with fire. whoever plays with fire will get burned. that is something that really, really stands out. i will say one thing though, john. in more than two years, i have never seen so many positive headlines overall from state media here, which is not necessarily an exact barometer on the greater population, but it does reflect what the government here wants to echo. they seem very positive about the relationship between u.s. and china. perhaps some of that is the timing of us leading into the beijing olympics early next year, where they're facing a lot of resentment for things like covid, john. >> that is interesting, especially because the rhetoric being reported there over the last few months has not always been positive. some cases, more negative than it had been in some time.
if it is all positive today, interesting. worth watching. david culver, jeremy diamond, thank you both very much. the united states space command livid with russia over a move that created 1,500 pieces of space debris. plus, the lawyer for the man accused of killing ahmaud arbery requesting a mistrial because of who was sitting in the back of the courtroom. why the judge called the request rep reh reprehensible. (burke) i've seen this movie before. (woman) you have? (burke) sure, this is the part where all is lost and the hero searches for hope. then, a mysterious figure reminds her that she has the farmers home policy perk, guaranteed replacement cost. and that her home will be rebuilt, regardless of her limits or if the cost of materials has gone up. (woman) that's really something. (burke) get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. wait, i didn't ruin the ending, did i? (woman) yeah, y-you did. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪
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the cynics, democrats and republicans can come together and deliver results. we can do this. we can deliver real results for real people. >> let's bring in white house correspondent john harwood on this. you know, his bigger plan, the build back better plan, still outstanding, but this was a huge moment to pass this bipartisan infrastructure package. >> it was important on a couple of levels. first of all, it is very important for the country, right? people want their bridges, their ports, their airports repaired. they want broadband internet. all of the benefits that come from this bill are extremely popular. that's why you have so many republicans to vote for it in the senate, a small number in the house, and why you had republicans like rob portman and don young yesterday celebrating with the president. so that's one thing. secondly, as a political matter, he's been having a very rough couple of months, and the opportunity to be able to stand
outside the white house with members of both parties, have a unifying moment, say, "this is not what we're trying to do, this is what we have done," that's big. it's not going to solve his political problems, but it is a step. he is going to try to amplify that in new hampshire today, in michigan tomorrow, a series of promotional events. he's still got to get that other element, but the house leadership and white house are both confident they're going to get that through the house this week and the senate sometime before the end of the year. so if you get on a little bit of a roll, and you're able to stop the story line of incompetent democrats bickering with one another, and democrats would then like to turn to going after the republicans for the 2022 midterms. >> they need to sell this product, right? they need to sell it. the president is going out to do that. there's always lag time, of course, with infrastructure projects and the like, but he needs to make it clear to people what is going to be delivered, even as they wait for it to be delivered. >> that's right. he is going to try to make that
case. now, it is a difficult environment for him to break through in a significant way. even a successful sales job is not going to make his poll numbers go from where they are now in the low 40s up to the low 50s where they were before, in part because the programs rollout over time, and, in part, the dominant economic story at this moment is educinflation. he gets hit every day with, what are you doing with inflation? gas prices, grocery prices, people are getting ready to do christmas shopping and understand prices have gone up. those are things he has to count on, as jen psaki said last night on our air. the number one thing we can do is to get control of covid. that smooths out some of the bumpiness within the economy that is pushing up prices, and count on improved conditions getting into next year. there's precedent for presidents, reagan, clinton, obama, falling down to the areas where, in public approval, where
biden is now and recovering in time to win second terms. can he do it before 2022 to keep his party in control of the congress? huge challenge. >> that'll be tough. >> john, thank you so much. radio show host alex jones who pushed horrible conspiracy theories about the sandy hook massacre handed a sweeping legal loss. the fate of kyle rittenhouse about to be in the hands of the jury, as kenosha braces for a verdict. when love finds us, this is how we shine. ( ♪ ) you found the one. now find the ring at zales, the diamond store. bogeys on your six, limu. they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. only pay for what you need.
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failed to provide documents requested by the plaintiffs in the case. this is the latest legal defeat for jones after losing two defamation suits filed in texas by other parents of sandy hook victims. joining us is william ogden, an attorney representing sandy hook family lisies in the defamation against alex jones and into wars in texas. thank you so much for being with us, william. what do you think -- >> absolutely. >> -- damages should be here? >> so i think the only way our society allows damages like this to be calculated just to give it up to a jury of mr. jones' peers, at least in our case, in travis county texas, which is in austin, and allow a jury to determine how much damage he's actually done to these families. >> i wonder, you know, when you think specifically of, say, noah pozner's family, who was the youngest victim at sandy hook, his family has been harassed by people who believed alex jones.
they've had to move ten times since their son's death. as we've heard from his mom, she can't even go to noah's grave to mourn him. what kind of damages can even get close to making up for that? >> i don't think there's an amount of damages that can make up for that, for what my clients have lost out on and what they've had to go through. you not only have had them moving multiple times over the last seven years,ics six years,t you also have someone who was convicted and went to federal prison because of the death threats that they were receiving from that woman. upon that woman's release, one of the terms was she was not allowed to access any more of the programming involved in these lawsuits. >> what has it been like for the families of the victim that is you represent, and i'm sure other families as well, where they have not only been mourning the loss of their babies, but they've been dealing with this kind of thing that was unleashed
by what alex jones did? >> so i think that's the most unique thing about this case, is that you took probably the most -- one of the most tragic events in the recent history of the united states and then you had somebody parade for 5 1/2 years this conspiracy theory that either it didn't happen or there was something behind it or that no one died. he's kind of jumped back and forth a number of times, trying to say he's sorry, trying to say that it never happened, then he said it did happen. he's gone back and forth. it is just for click bait. he takes an extreme story, then he makes it even more extreme. that's just to get, you know, web traffic to his website. >> well yailliam, look, this is outcome, and thank you so much for joining us. of course, as always, we think so much of those families from sandy hook, including the ones you represent. william ogden, thanks. >> absolutely. thank you for having me. >> "new day" continues right