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tv   Erin Burnett Out Front  CNN  November 15, 2021 4:00pm-5:00pm PST

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defense saying it was dante's inferno. and i think, when you look at the whole picture, it looked like dante's inferno and there were plenty of reasons for rittenhouse to think he might be killed. >> the deliberations begin tomorrow. we'll watch. see what happens to our viewers, thanks very much for watching. i am wolf blitzer in the situation room. "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. outfront. the breaking news. the jury deliberations beginning tomorrow in the case of kyle rittenhouse. the armed teenager who killed two people, injuring a third. was it self-defense? we are about to hear a jury's verdict. plus, president trump's adviser, defender, and supporter defiant after his court appearance on criminal contempt charges. steve bannon calling it the misdemeanor from hell. and president biden set for a high-stakes meeting with the president of china set to begin momentarily this hour. let's go outfront. and good evening.
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i'm erin burnett. outfront tonight, the braelking news, it is in the hands of the jury. closing arguments just wrapping in the past couple minute hearse in the trial of kyle rittenhouse. the judge just sending jurors home. they are on their way telling them deliberations will begin 9:00 tomorrow morning. sara sidner is out front live from kenosha, wisconsin. sarah, you were in that courthouse today and literally we are three minute frs that jury being told to go home. all 18 jurors, even though 12 of them will be sort of picked randomly tomorrow to be the ones to make that verdict. but you were there today. it was a very long day. what stood out to you the most in the closing arguments? >> reporter: they were very strong. the prosecution put together a narrative starting from the beginning and going, piece by piece, through all of this. he really went after kyle rittenhouse. saying that this person was the aggressor. this person decided to bring a gun to what he called a fist fight. and this person was a mass murderer that people were trying to chase after and stop. as for the defense, they turned
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it all around saying he -- kyle rittenhouse -- was the person who was being attacked and simply had to defend himself. was kyle rittenhouse practicing vigilante justice or self-defense? >> now, you have heard the evidence and it's time to search for the truth. >> reporter: the 18-year-old's fate now hinges on that question as attorneys make their final arguments to the jury starting with the prosecution. >> lot of murder cases we are in here trying to convince a jury that the defendant killed somebody. that's not in dispute here. that's the easy part. the question is does he get a pass? >> reporter: rittenhouse killed two men, and maimed a third last summer during the unrest in kenosha, wisconsin he was seen on the streets with an ar-15 style rifle, a first aid kit, and a fire extinguisher claiming to be an emt. >> putting the fire extinguisher on the ground and raising the gun. >> reporter: prosecutors opened with graphic videos of the moimts rittenhouse shot and killed his victims, starting
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with joseph rosenbaum. >> you can see from this video mr. rosenbaum is not even within arm's reach of the defendant when the first shot goes off. whatever threat he might have posed, it's over. and the defendant doesn't stop after that first shot. he tracks mr. rosenbaum's body all the way down firing three more shots. >> he was a bad man. he was there. he was causing trouble. he was a rioter and my client had to deal with him that night alone. >> reporter: his defense continued claiming prosecutors unfairly portrayed rittenhouse as an active shooter who had to be stopped. >> kyle was not an active shooter. that is a buzz word that the state wants to latch onto because it excuses the actions of that mob. >> reporter: the prosecutors countered saying his actions were far from self-defense. >> you lose the right to self-defense when you are the one who brought the gun, when you are the one creating the
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danger. >> reporter: rittenhouse now faces five charges, in addition to lesser offenses connected to the case the judge allowed to today. he has pleaded not guilty to all. the six misdemeanor possession of a weapon underage was dropped after the gun's size was found too large to qualify for that charge. >> is it legal? >> it is not a short-barreled shotgun or a short-barreled rifle, yes. >> either, by barrel or by overall length? >> correct. >> all right. and then, count six is dismissed. >> reporter: a blow to the prosecution on what could have been their easiest win after eight days of testimony and more than 30 witnesses, acquittal, of course, remains on the table. both sides with clear arguments leaving the jury to decide who is right. >> and we know the jury will start deliberating tomorrow morning. they were paying very close attention at the beginning when the prosecutor and the defense went to give their closing arguments but as their rebuttal
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came along, this has been a very long day. court observers inside noticed one juror having trouble staying awake. and they seemed to be a little less attentive, as rebuttal was going on. but during the closing arguments, they were paying attention and they had to watch some really brutal and difficult video, especially watching the death of joseph rosenbaum as it happened on camera. >> all right. sara, thank you very much. all right. i want to go to elie honig now, former u.s. assistant attorney for the southern district of new york. and stephanie rawlings blake, former mayor of baltimore. so, elie, let's talk about where we are right now. two minutes before we come on, the judge says okay, you can go home to the jury. don't watch anything. don't look at anything. just hold in there a little longer. what do you make of them going home? by the way, 18 of them are going home and coming back tomorrow. it's going to be picked randomly, which 12 actually are the jury. >> yeah, this is what you'd expect, erin. this was a long, stressful, dramatic day. i think normally in this
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situation, a judge would say, jury, go home. get a good night's sleep. clear your head and then we will start tomorrow. the jury deliberations that we arability about to see are going to be fascinating. now, you and i and the viewers are going to be largely in the dark. they have been given legal instructions but how they go about it, all we are going to know and hear, they are going to send out notes periodically. >> why are they asking this? >> yeah. we are going to be doing a lot of tea leaf reading in the next coming days and eventually, they may read a verdict but one thing that's really important to know. they will be deciding on each of these five counts individually, separately. so they might find guilty on some counts, not guilty on others. it's not all guilty or not all not guilty. >> so, mayor rawlings-blake, when you look at where we are today and you hear sara's reporting, right, you know, strong arguments. but yet, at some point, it was long and people started to get a little tired and a little bored, some of the jurors from what she saw in that courtroom.
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how do you view today? >> i think the defense made a decent case. um, i think the prosecution has tried to portray kyle r rittenhouse as an active shooter but then it opens the door to this question. if he was an active shooter, why were just these three individuals shot? and the jurors -- they are going to be in that room, and they are going to try to make sense of this. and i think that, um, it -- they -- the defense has raised a good question. >> so, let's play this. the defense in their closing arguments, elie, as the mayor is referring to focused specifically on the self-defense claim that they are making. it's interesting what she is saying, right? if it wasn't self-defense, if he was an active shooter, there could have been a lot more people dead. that wasn't the case and specifically talking about joseph rosenbaum. so, here is part of that. >> this case is not a game. it is my client's life.
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we don't play fast and loose with the facts. pretending that mr. rosenbaum was citizen a number-one guy. he was a bad man. he was there. he was causing trouble. he was a rioter and my client had to deal with him that night, alone. >> how'd that play? >> so, i agree with the mayor. i think that the defense, by and large, put on a strong self-defense case. this is one of the stronger self-defense cases you will see and it's important to understand, this is tough for the prosecution under the law, itself. the key phrase that guides all of our trials is beyond a reasonable doubt. when i was a prosecutor, we always had to prove everything beyond a reasonable doubt and if the defense raises self-defense as they have done here, the defense has to disprove that beyond a reasonable doubt. that's not going to be beyond a reasonable doubt and the self-defense defense will succeed in that case.
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>> so -- so, mayor rawlings-blake, the jury -- first of all, they are going home after this long day, right? don't consume media, don't look at anything tonight. and he read the instructions to the jury. okay? i just want to go through this. 36 pages long are the juror instructions. that's a lot. it's a lot for any human being. um, what do you think that means for this jury? when they are getting handed 36 pages of deliberation instructions? >> erin, i have been on a jury and what i know is that being in the jury room, jurors don't want to clean up anybody's mess. and the judge's instructions were messy. the prosecution' case was messy in many areas where they would put on witnesses that would -- that were helping the defense. and then, you know, the defense case -- i mean, the defense' closing was a little disjointed. the jurors are going to feel like, you know, you're -- you're
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laying this mess all in our lap, and you want us to make sense of it. and, you know, i think that's where u syou start to build the the case for reasonable doubt. >> so let's talk about this, elie, because you mentioned on this issue of reasonable doubt, how hard it is for the prosecution to prove it was not self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. however, the judge did allow lesser charges. now, throughout the one of the misdemeanor weapons charge was another -- another fail for the prosecution. but you have pointed out that some of these lesser charges, i.e., not first-degree murder, could still carry 80 years in prison. >> yeah. getting that instruction on the lesser included charges was a very important win, i believe in this case, for the prosecution. because these jurors. we weren't able to physically see them on the camera and so it's easy to forget they're just human beings. 12 -- 18 human beings, soon to be 12. and human beings -- imagine trying to get 12 people to agree on anything. what pizza topping do you want, right? unanimously. and so, what jurors look to do a lot of times is compromise. and if you give them a way.
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you say, okay, maybe we are not going to convict this person on first-degree intentional homicide. >> you guys don't want to acquit. so let's meet at -- >> exactly. half of you want to acquit. half of you want to find him guilty first degree. >> do they know if they are loo looking at a secondary charge, that it could carry 80 years? >> no, the jury is not told here is the penalty for these charges. >> they may see something as a compromise that maybe they wouldn't see that way if they knew that but they don't know that which could be very significant. mayor rawlings-blake, what is your prediction for what happens here? how long deliberations go? again, they are going to meet tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. they are going to pick out of a random hat, who are the 12 and they are going to go and what do you think happens then? >> i think this is probably one lottery that these -- these jurors do not want to win. i do not envy them at all. um, i would say i don't anticipate them deliberating for long. this was not a -- even though the charges were serious, this was not a very long trial. um, the -- the evidence is going to be fresh in their minds. and some key things that the
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prosecution said today is will be fresh in their mind. he is -- the prosecutor said that, you know, a reasonable person wouldn't be out there at night past curfew. but yet, you have the -- the -- the footage, the video footage of hundreds of people out there. you know, they are asking this -- this jury to, um, to pick who is wrong out of a melee. so, i just don't see them deliberating for an extended period of time. and i think the -- the more serious charges will -- i -- i predict he will be acquitted on the more serious charges. >> pretty incredible to watch. you know, it really is. thank you, both, so very much. and tomorrow morning, again, 9:00 a.m. they will be back. outfront next, president trumpet's former right-hand man on the attack after he turned himself in to authorities on contempt charges. >> this is going to be the misdemeanor from hell for merrick garland, nancy pelosi, and joe biden. so what exactly does steve bannon mean, misdemeanor from hell? plus, president biden signs
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the bipartisan infrastructure bill with democrats and republicans in attendance. it was a win for the president. but can he repeat it? and is it time for covid to stop running all of our lives? my guest is a medical doctor, who believes in masks and vaccines but he says time to move on. (judith) no - we actively manage client portfolios based on our forward-looking views of the market. (other money manager) but you still sell investments that generate high commissions, right? (judith) no, we don't sell commission products. we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in our client's best interest. (other money manager) so when do you make more money? only when your clients make more money? (judith) yep, we do better when our clients do better. at fisher investments we're clearly different. paul loves food. but his diabetes made food a mystery. everything felt like a "no". but then paul went from no to know. with freestyle libre 2, now he knows how food affects his glucose. and he knows when to make different choices.
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committee. he will be back in court thursday for his arraignment. bannon's striking a defiant tone, to say the least, after leaving court with his new lawyer who also happens to have been one of donald trump's impeachment attorneys. >> this is going to be the misdemeanor from hell for merrick garland, nancy pelosi, and joe biden. joe biden ordered merrick garland to prosecute me from the white house when he got off marine one and we are going to do -- we are going to go on the offense. we are tired of playing defense. we are going to go on the offense on this and stand by. by the way -- by the way -- by the way, you should understand, nancy pelosi is taking on donald trump and steve bannon. she ought to ask hillary clinton how that turned out from them. okay? we are going on the offense. >> evan perez is outfront. and, evan, obviously, bannon making it incredibly clear, no intention of comply being that subpoena. and he is going on offense. so, where does it go from here? >> well, look, you know, this is going to be probably at least a year of -- of -- of trial
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process. >> wow. >> right. and so, for this committee, erin, which, you know, wants this information, they need this information as part of their investigation. it's not clear that they can do this again with any of the other witnesses. so right now, they are looking at this and, you know, the spectacle that steve bannon is -- is creating here. the fact that he is going to be, obviously, facing, you know, perhaps up to a year in -- in prison if he gets convicted on this, they are hoping that that induces some of the other members of the trump orbit to come in, and at least try to find an accommodation to -- to talk to them. and provide the information. some of these witnesses, mark meadows, people who worked in the white house are incredibly important. they possess a lot of information. and i think they would want that -- they -- they prefer to get that, than to go to the alternative which is to try to get a prosecution, which really closes the door on any kind of -- getting information coming from those witnesses. and so, that's part of the issue
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here that you see is developing for this committee. >> everyone, stay with me. i want to bring david gregory in the conversation as well, our political analyst. so david, bannon saying repeatedly we are going to go on the offense. vowing this many this will be the misdemeanor from hell for president biden and attorney general garland. didn't need our cameras coming there. he streamed it live, himself, right? doesn't -- obviously, he is projecting a complete lack of fear and defiance. in fact, he seems to be kind of reveling in it. >> well, there is no question. i mean, it was kind of eerily similar to one of the seasons of "homeland." you know? where there -- you -- you have a figure like him who is a media figure on the right who is going to use this as a soapbox. and is going to use this charge against him as a soapbox and a spectacle and as evan points out, there is a lot of legal maneuvering to be done here over the indictment. there is also questions about the kind of the novel-legal question about access to what he
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knows and to those discussions. that will take time but the politics won't wait. and the spectacle won't wait. and that's what bannon is seizing on. he used this -- not only to taunt the president and -- and attorney general garland and pelosi and all of that. um, but to make a -- a broader argument that i think was more indirect, which is that they, the liberals, are coming for us. you know, the conservatives or those trump supporters. that's what he -- the message that he wants to send. and there is another piece of this, too. which is, there is a longer game beyond the legal questions involved. and that's the political question because democrats will face a time when republicans in congress or a -- a -- a republican administration with an attorney general who might see fit to indict somebody for not complying with a subpoena to congress of the committee. and so, there will be a
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reverberation. and so, the accusations of politicizing the justice department will be revived, once again. but i can assure you, knowing this attorney general, that he's taken a position here. he is not going to listen to joe biden. joe biden's not going to direct him to indict anybody. >> no, no, merrick garland made that extremely clear. and, everyone, bannon had a lot more to say after leaving court. let me just play a little bit more. >> i am never going to back down and they -- they -- they took on the wrong guy this time. if the administrative state wants to take me on, bring it. because we're here to fight this, and we are going to go on offense and you stand by. you see how we are going to go on auns offense. >> okay so obviously as we pointed out not the normal way this is done. but this is how he is going to do it, he is a media figure. but, evan, talk to me about the judge in this case, specifically, carl nichols, how this plays with him? >> yeah, he is a trump appointee. and from what everyone i have talked to -- he has a good reputation. but one of the interesting things about -- about him, erin,
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is the fact that he, you know, for years was at the justice department where he dealt with these exact issues. these issues of executive privilege. he was involved in a big case in the late 2000s in the bush administration trying -- the house was trying to get -- was subpoenaing harriet meyers and josh bolton to try to get information on the firings of u.s. attorneys at that time in that scandal and he was the one defending against the house subpoenas. so he has got a lot of experience in this, and it's going to be interesting to see how this works. the -- the final thing i will say is judges don't like this kind of spectacle outside the courthouse. so it's going to be interesting to see how he deals with that, especially because bannon is -- is a media figure. he is a podcaster and he is going to argue i -- this is how i make my living. how -- you can't shut me down. and so, we will see how the judge manages that -- this outside -- this sideshow that will come with this case. >> so, evan's laying that out,
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you know, right, it could take a year here which would obviously put you past the midterms and the point the committee could do anything. won't even exist. so, david, that brings me to the political point you raise, which is how bannon handles this could impact how others choose to cooperate or not, right? and obviously, right now, mark meadows, the former chief of staff, is refusing to cooperate. jonathan carl writes in his new book that he, meadows, e-mail add detailed mowemo to a top ai on new year's even on how to overturn the election. he is now in danger of being found in contempt of congress. he worked for president trump at the time. but -- but what happens here? he is looking at what happens to bannon to decide whether he is going to cooperate. if he chooses to not cooperate and this goes on a year there, that is kind of crucial for this committee because meadows actually knows a lot. >> or any committee that is fact finding and i think it's really important that we understand the importance of what the committee
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is after because as evan laid out, i mean, he will cover the legal maneuverings as we go forward and there are important constitutional questions that i can't speak to with any knowledge. but i do know this. it's very important to understand what those conversations were like in the das running up to january 6th. what did the president understand about what was being plotted and planned? and his role in encouraging that. that's vitally important to know. this was an attack on our democracy and on our elections. and people have to take that seriously for the sake of history. the impact on meadows is a question for me because it's twofold. one, he's more of a -- of an establishment guy. served in congress. he is not a flamethrower like steve bannon and the intent of the attorney general bringing this indictment was to send a very clear message that we -- we will do it. we will take this all the way and back up congress and that's an important precedent. but there's the clock here. you know, republicans are looking pretty good for the midterms right now according to
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political prognostications. you could just run out the clock here and this committee, as evan says, is no longer operating. >> yeah. thank you, both, very much. lot more to come from both of you as this continues. next, president biden signs the infrastructure bill. did we just witness the last gasp of bipartisan legislation? and when will covid no longer be a factor? my guest says maybe never but now is the time to start moving on and living life.
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tonight, president biden finally celebrating his win at the white house signing into law his bipartisan infrastructure bill. >> the bill i am about to sign into law is proof that despite the cynics, democrats and republicans can come together and deliver results. we can do this. we can deliver real results for real people. too often, in washington, the reason we didn't get things done is because we insist on getting everything we want. everything. with this law, we -- we focused on getting things done. >> and of course, right, it's significant. they could not have gotten that
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bipartisan bill passed through the house without republican votes. didn't have enough votes in the democratic side, so it's bipartisan in really important ways. outfront now, two lawmakers who want to get the next legislation passed. they have been working incredibly hard on getting a voting rights bill passed. stacey abrams and democratic senator jon tester of appromontana. thanks so much to both of you. senator, let me start with you because you were at the bill signing today and you were there with democrats and republicans. as i have emphasized, this was a bipartisan bill in a really meaningful way. do you think that we will see another bipartisan signing event at the white house anytime soon? >> i do. i mean, i think it's a matter of getting folks together that want to get to yes as we did with this infrastructure package. and i will tell you what the piece of legislation's going to be. it's going to be a toxic ex-e exposure -- piece of legislation on toxic exposure to allow the va to give burn pit victims the
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kind of benefits that they have earned and i think that it will be a bipartisan -- it already is a bipartisan bill and i think it will get passed with a bipartisan majority. >> so, let's talk about the voting rights that both of you have worked on together. leader abrams, a new "washington post"/abc poll shows 51% of registered voters, right now, say they would support republicans for congress if the election was held today. 41% said they'd support democrats. that is the biggest lead for the gop in 40 years. and i will translate that. that's the entire history of that poll question. so, it's never been a bigger gap than now. are you concerned that the democratic infighting, which hurt democrats at the polls in virginia, for example, a couple weeks ago could cost your party the chance to get other really important things done, like voting rights? >> no. i believe that right now, we have seen the fierce understanding of how critical voting rights legislation is. we have seen all 50 democratic senators stand up for it and
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vote for it repeatedly and on the john lewis voting rights advancement act, we saw senator murkowski, a republican, join because she understands this isn't about which parties wins elections. it is about whether americans get to participate in choosing the government that will lead them and that's the fight that we have to focus on. that's the fight of patriotism in 2021. making certain that, no matter who we pick when we vote, that every american has the freedom to vote and that we do so with the protections that we know are necessary, given the big lie and given its pervasive nature across our country. >> and obviously, senator tester, this is not what you mentioned as the bipartisan piece of legislation and there is fwhogt that indicates that it would be in any way. vice president kamala harris, who is the point person for voting rights for the biden administration has said privately that the filibuster has to be scaled back, if you are going to be able to get voting rights through the senate. you obviously are a big-deciding vote on that. are you ready to do it? are you ready to put it aside, if that's what it takes to get voting rights through, senator? >> well first of all, i think what stacey said is absolutely
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correct we need to make sure fa we are going to have a democracy, we have everybody who can vote have the opportunity to vote and there shouldn't be disdrim nation along the way. this is a very, very, very important piece of legislation. look. the filibuster has been weaponized, erin, and i think there is ways we can go back to the good, old days with the filibuster that will take a lot of the ability to weaponize the filibuster out. and that's why i say we should take a look at to move forward. but make no mistake about it. voting rights is fundamental to our gdemocracy and it's one of the most important things we do for our country and, that is, vote for our elected leaders. if we prevent people from voting, and we have seen it happen in republican legislatures all over this country, including montana, including georgia. if we allow that kind of discrimination to happen, then shame on us. we need to get this bill passed. >> and so, senator, just -- i don't want to be technical and i know that it is important to be technical in many senses but it sounds like what you are saying is there is a way to peel back
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the filibuster for the purpose of the voting rights? >> yeah, what i am saying is that we could go back to the talking filibuster. we could go back to a way that would require the republicans -- the minority party -- to put up 41 votes. there are a lot of different proposals out there that we could utilize to get this bill passed. >> so leader abrams, i want to ask you, you have been so vocal on this and very passionate. you have put your, you know, your heart and your soul and your face behind it. tonight, the white house is defending the vice president after cnn reported that key west wing -- sorry -- aides are exasperated by what they see as entrenched dysfunction and a lack of focus by the vice president harris and her staff. does this concern you at all in the context of getting voting rights through, considering she is the person from the white house who is the point person? >> vice president harris, president biden, leader schumer have all been part of the fight to expand access to voting rights and that is a unifying issue. and i think that the attempt to
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focus on battles distracts us from the battle we should all be fighting, which is the fight to protect our democracy. we are in peril and this is not hyperbole. we have watched democracies fall into authoritarianism, you know, in my adulthood. and it's happened because of small incursions that turned into massive subversions of our democracy. it begins by telling people that their right to vote should not be equal, that it should be discriminated against if you are young, if you are a person of color, if you are differently abled. and we know that unless we protect the right to vote, unless we call our senators at 833-465-7142 -- unless we tell them that we demand, as a majority in the nation does, that we demand freedom to vote and the john lewis voting rights advancement act, this books a moot issue. this books an academic argument because if our democracy falls, the rest of it is irrelevant. >> leader, let many ask you. a few of the insiders who spoke with cnn about the problems between the vice president and
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the west wing believe that she is being well prepared for whichever role she might have going forward. look. this is a crucial point because there is a lot of talk about who else might run if biden does not seek re-election. and today, "politico" wrote about you. they mentioned you i want to quote how they wrote it. if she runs and wins the governor's mansion in georgia next year, democratic operatives expect her to at least consider a white house bid. is that something you would consider. >> my focus, my consideration, my efforts, my energy is being poured into making certain that we pass the freedom to vote act. that we pass the john lewis voting rights advancement act. and that we can have a conversation about elections after we do the work of protecting the democracy that undergirds those contests. >> well, i appreciate both of you very much. senator tester, leader abrams, thank you. >> thank you so much. >> and next, learning to live with the threat of covid. my next guest, a doctor, says it's time to get back to normal. and breaking news. president biden about to meet with china's leader, literally,
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tonight, new york city deviating from cdc guidance, opening up covid booster shots to anyone over the age of 18 who wants one. this comes, after governors in at least four states have taken steps to expand access to boosters, including colorado and new mexico where there is a major covid surge right now. colorado surpassing 1,500 covid patients in hospitals for the first time this year. outfront now, dr. robert, chair of the department of medicine at uc-san francisco. doctor, obviously, we have talked through this -- through this virus. let me ask you about, you know, as we see these covid hot spots continuing to pop up. and we are now basically two years into the pandemic. you are saying it's time for people to stop organizing their
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lives around covid, and to start resuming normal activities. tell us why. >> well, i guess, i wouldn't say normal activities because my normal activities in 2019 did not include wearing a mask indoors. but what i have come to believe and it's true for most of the experts is that covid is going to be around our world for the foreseeable future -- maybe forever. it will get a little worse. it will get a little bit better. it will be regional. there will be surges and there will be improved times but i came to an epiphany about a month ago, that if i am not doing something like visiting my family over thanksgiving over -- or over christmas, i am probably saying to myself i am not going to do it now. i am probably not going to do it next year. i may not do it forever. and so, with that line of thinking -- thinking, my -- my reasoning now is i am going to try to make it as safe as possible. i am fully vaccinated. i've been boosted. i will wear a mask indoors but i'm not going to forego activities based on a hope that things are going to be so much
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better or that covid will go away at some point because unfortunately, i don't think the cavalry is coming. >> so, colorado and new mexico are seeing a big uptake in cases right now and hospitalizations but i want to talk to you about that in a moment. but first, i want to ask you about the very different approaches to masks in both states. the governor of colorado, jared polis, says he is resisting another statewide mask mandate because the rise in covid cases is almost identical to the rise in new mexico, which does require masks indoors right now. so, when you look at the data, what does it tell you? i mean, is it -- is it possibly time to drop mask mandates? that masks aren't the solution right now? or no? >> i think the data are pretty clear that masks are helpful. they're not the be all and end all. the most important thing is to be vaccinated and if you are eligible, to get a booster and i actually think opening up the eligibility is a good call right now. but as long as there is a fair amount of covid in our world, i think is the right right call.
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i think the data supports the idea that you should wear a mask indoors, until the cases go down to a level that is below a threshold where there is really a lot of risk to the person standing next to you is going to breathe covid on you. so it's -- it's tricky. it doesn't -- all this getting back to normal doesn't mean that we ditch the masks or we forget that covid is still killing over a thousand people a day in the united states or 80,000 cases a day in the united states. but it does mean that we -- we continue to use masks where it's prudent and i'd say, indoors, the evidence is clear. >> all right. so -- and you mention the thousand people a day. i mean, it is pretty stunning just to think about this. what we have become accustomed to. i don't know what other word to use. it's horrible. but, you know, at the very beginning when i said return to normal, you said well if you define normal as masks, right? there were differences in how you define today but i want to ask you sort of the bigger question because there is a big question about whether people are ready to return to normal life, right? normal workplaces and the way that was defined before covid. um, i recently spoke to the a
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airbnb ceo brian chessky. and he was pushing back against some business leaders including the ceo of morgan stanley, saying everybody needs to be back in the office five days a week and woe be if you don't. listen to him. >> i don't think ceos are going to dictate how people work in the future. i think employees will because if a ceo says you have to go back to the office, they are going to have a choice. do i want all the talent pool? or just the people willing to come to my office? >> you know, it seems, doctor, a lot of workers aren't staying home right now because they are afraid of covid. they are actually staying home right now because they like it. they enjoy the flexibility. they do not want to return to normal if that means five day as week of commuting and all the thing that is came with that life. so how do you walk the line between telling people it's time to go back to normal -- even though i am putting quotes around it -- after so much has changed about what they want from life? >> yeah, i mean, those are, i think, two different issues. one is we have discovered a different way of living our lives in the past couple years.
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and we shouldn't completely ditch it and go back to 2019 when -- if the virus were to go away if it is working better. i think we have learned there are ways of organizing our lives around work, for example, that hybrid workplaces can work fine. we have also learned that virtual school doesn't work very well at all. and so, a lot of this is weighing the risks and benefits of different ways and different strategies. i guess, my pmain point is that covid's going to be with us for the foreseeable future. we do need to begin thinking about making ourselves and our communities as safe as possible, while we don't wait for things to get massively better than they are now because i don't think they are going to. how we organize our work, we have seen a different way of organizing our work and a lot of people like a hybrid-work existence and we have to see, in many cases that will be a perfectly reasonable way of doing work. >> it is all going to be very fascinating but i like your point. gou you got to go back because if not now, maybe never. thank you so much, doctor, i appreciate your time. >> my pleasure. and next, the breaking news.
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presidents biden and xi jinping are meeting at this hour. nuclear, trade, other tensions are running incredibly high. can biden do anything? and death stalker scorpions invade a city in egypt after heavy rains send them into the streets and homes, more than 500 people stung. you don't get much time for yourself. so when you do, make it count with crest pro-health. it protects the 8 areas dentists check for a healthier mouth. the #1 toothpaste brand in america. crest. my plaque psoriasis... ...the itching ...the burning. the stinging. my skin was no longer mine. my psoriatic arthritis, made my joints stiff, swollen... painful. emerge tremfyant™. with tremfya®,
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even with higher stroke risk due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin that's a trail i want to take. eliquis. eliquis reduces stroke risk better than warfarin. and has less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis has both. don't stop taking eliquis without talking to your doctor as this may increase your risk of stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking, you may bruise more easily or take longer for bleeding to stop. get help right away for unexpected bleeding, or unusual bruising. it may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. the number one cardiologist-prescribed blood thinner. ask your doctor about eliquis. (naj) at fisher investments, our clients know we have their backs. (other money manager) how do your clients know that? (naj) because as a fiduciary, it's our responsibility to always put clients first. (other money manager) so you do it because you have to? (naj) no, we do it because it's the right thing to do.
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we help clients enjoy a comfortable retirement. (other money manager) sounds like a big responsibility. (naj) one that we don't take lightly. it's why our fees are structured so we do better when our clients do better. fisher investments is clearly different. breaking news. president biden sitting right now for a high-stakes virtual summit with chinese president xi jinping. we are going to get some video of this coming out. this is literally happening now, right, because it's night in washington and it is morning in beijing. the meeting is scheduled to last three hours. it comes amid heightened tensions between the two countries. china is rapidly expanding its nuclear arsenal. connecting a record number of war plane incursions into taiwan, which is making clear it intends to take. and successfully testing a nuclear-capable hypersonic missile that could evade u.s. air defenses. outfront now, the former u.s. ambassador to china in the obama
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administration. and, ambassador, i really appreciate your time. i mean, these recent escalating tensions are pointing many to say that conflict between the u.s. and china could be inevitable. i mean, we have got satellite images, you know, china practicing firing missiles at u.s. war ships that they have literally put war ships out there. they are -- they're blowing them up. i mean, this is stuff americans might expect to see from s, say iran, or north korea. china's different. they can back up what they are -- what they're saying with action if they want. how perilous is the relationship between the u.s. and china right now, ambassador? >> it's difficult, clearly. um, it's been in a free-fall since anchorage. that was a couple months ago. and i think this video conference today between president xi and president biden is critical because it's going to tend to clear the air. at least they're talking. that's a lot right there. and if it's over three hours, the chances are that probably they are going to find some
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common ground. some things to talk about that make some sense. what really counts here, frankly, is the united states to show strength. and i am talking not just about military strength. i am talking about economic strength. getting our act together because when i talk to my chinese friends -- and i have a good number of them -- they say that many in china think that america is in decline. and we have to show that we're not in decline. and how do we do that? the passage of this infrastructure bill is very important. it's very critical. it's showing we are getting our act together economically. you know, it shows we -- we have to maintain that momentum. >> so, you know, biden has touted his close relationship with xi, right, from back when he was vice president many times. just for those who haven't heard him do it, here's what he often says. >> i have probably spent more time with xi jinping, i'm told, than any world leader has because i -- i had 24, 25 hours of private meetings with him when i was vice president. traveled 17,000 miles with him. i know him pretty well.
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>> you know, it is interesting that context, right? coming into this, right, china's communist party a land mark resolution. he is a leader on par with mao, now, right? biden has been weakened by infighting in his own party. low approval numbers, you talk about a perception of america in decline in china. so how much does sort of a friendship count? i don't even know that is a fair word to even use for their relationship but what does biden need to do to accomplish anything tonight? >> well, friendship does count but between two major parties, it's not everything. president xi cares about china. president biden cares about the united states. it's that simple. each wants to get re-elected. president xi wants to keep his people happy. president biden wants to keep his people happy so you have to do just what it takes to keep your people happy. and in this case, we, americans, want jobs, better jobs than we
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have. infrastructure bill will help that. but also, we need to show that we are standing up to china. and that means that president biden's got to do all the things that indicate that he is doing that. however, having said that, there's been much -- too much public criticism of china by the united states in the executive branch and by congress today. that just hardens the hardliners in china. that shows that hardliners, hey, we can't trust america. forget america. we're going to move toward more decoupling. >> that's very interesting. interesting take on it, as they have of spoken more. ambassador, appreciate your time. thank you so much. and of course, we are going to play for you the play back of that as soon as it happens. next, though, incredible story more than 500 people stung by deadly fat-tail scorpions. it's gentle on her skin, and out cleans our old free detergent. tide hygienic clean free. hypoallergenic and safe for sensitive skin.
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scorpions known as death stalkers have stung more than 500 people in egypt after flas floods. lightning lit up the sky as rare and incredibly heavy rains pounded the city washing hundreds, maybe thousands of the
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creatures that usually are in the sand left alone onto the streets and in people's homes. the source of this video is unclear but aswan is a tourist center loecated on the banks of the nile. now, here they are, completely flooded out. the fat-tail scorpions are about three to four inches long. among the deadliest in the world, killing within minutes. right now, three people are reported dead. egyptian officials deny initial-state media reports that the deaths are from the scorpions. thanks for joining us. anderson starts now. good evening. kyle rittenhouse's fate is now in the hands of a jury. jurors got the case just a short time ago, having heard closing arguments from both sides. a rebuttal from the prosecution and instructions from the judge. for more on all of it, i want to go straight to cnn omar jimenez in kenosha, wisconsin. so what are the takeaways now? >> for starters, both the prosecution and defense spoke for more than two hours, each,


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