tv Don Lemon Tonight CNN November 12, 2021 8:00pm-9:00pm PST
are you a christian author with a book that you're ready to share with the world? get published now, call for your free publisher kit today! so here is our breaking news tonight, steve bannon the one time chief strategists indicted by a federal grand jury on two counts of contempt of congress. refusing to appear for a
deposition and refusing to turnover documents. this development as trump appears to defend the january 6th rioters calling for vice president mike pence to be hanged as the insurrection unfolded saying in a taped interview the people were very angry and once again pushing the big lie. the indictment a boom to the january 6th committee's investigation. we're covering all fronts with cnn legal affairs core upon ta -- consrespondent paula reid. paula, i'll start with you with the reporting since you and your colleagues broke this story. this is a huge win for the january 6th committee. what is next for steve bannon and this investigation, paula? >> huge shoutout to hanna who is really a big reason we broke this story. she's been staking out the courthouse and will continue to do so as we watch this process unfold. we expect bannon will
self-surrenderer on monday and appear in court monday afternoon and like anyone, this criminal process will play out and have an opportunity to engage in plea deal negotiations and has the resources to fight this through a criminal trial. if he is convicted, he can also appeal. so this could be a long drawn out process but in the immediate future, the biggest consequence is for the committee without any consequence for his blanket ded defiance of the committee this would have been crippled. they have been watching to see what would happen with bannon. would there be any consequence and now that they've seen criminal charges, those come with a cost, not only a cost potentially to your reputation but also legal bills. the witnesses have to way how they want to proceed and we'll see more engagement between targets and the committee though it's not necessarily true there is going to be total cooperation and they're going to get everything they want. >> merrick garland, paula was
under a lot of scrutiny for how long this took. what is he saying tonight? >> he was under so much political pressure here, don. even president biden weighed in in favor of prosecution. now, our colleague evidenan per said the justice department didn't see this as a simple case. it's complicated and rare. we're told the decision to charge was made by career prosecutors and supported by the attorney general and he released a statement today. not all indictments come with a statement from the attorney general but in the statement he said since my first day in office, i've promised justice department employees that together we would show the american people by word and deed that the department adheres to the rule of law follows the facts and the law and pursues equal justice under the law. so clearly trying to do some reputation rehab for the justice department that took a lot of flak, a lot of rightful criticism during the previous
administration. now, there is another big question here that is going before the d.c. court of appeals. there is on going litigation between former president trump and the committee over this big question that the justice department has been grappling with here which is question of potential privilege, executive privilege and the biden administration believes a former president, former president trump does not have the power to keep secret records when the current president, biden of course, wants them released so far one federal judge has agreed with that but those arguments, that's going to go before the court of appeals on november 30th and that, too, don will be huge not only for the former president and these witnesses but for the committee and the success of its investigation. >> so listen, you mentioned if merrick garland hadn't done it, it would have taken the wind out of the sails for the committee so what about the other people that stone walled this com committee? they got to be nervous because
it's expensive to defend oneself. >> very expensive and likely talk to their lawyers about the options. they have the option to compile. we don't expect full compliance. traditionally you engage with a negotiation trying to narrow down and barter what you're willing to talk about, what kind of documents you're willing to provide and if you can come to an agreement, then perhaps you get a deposition or some documents. now that may not be possible in all cases. these witnesses have the opportunity if they want to show up to invoke the fifth amendment, there are questions they don't want to answer and at least showing up you make it harder for the house committee to argue you should be held in criminal contempt. the person that should be worried now is former chief of staff mark meadows because he defied a deadline to show up early this morning. he has really followed the bannon method here, complete defiance, no nuance and it
wouldn't be covered with privilege if he had it. the committee said they could pursue criminal contempt with him, as well. >> thanks so much. so joining me now, cnn senior law enforcement analyst andrew mcelde mccabe. good to see you. you say the biggest part of the bannon indictment is what it means for the other witnesses. look at meadows, he refused to testify. do you think tonight's news will change the minds here? >> it will way heavily on many witnesses for a variety of reasons. you touched on the expense issue. this is an easy decision for steve bannon. his entire media personality is built around this image of fighter and resistor. this is very good for his brand and also easy for him to raise money to assist with this defense. i'm not so sure every other
witness associated with the former administration can say the same thing. many folks will make the opposite assessment of steve bannon and that is that being indicted by a federal grand jury is not a good thing for your reputation. it's not a good thing for your career prospects. so i do think don, that folks are recalculating how they want to proceed now realizing that the committee is going to stand up and doj is going to back them up under the right circumstances. >> steve bannon probably as you said likes what is good for his brand, right? this is what he was saying the day before the insurrection. watch this. >> all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. just understand this. all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. it's not going to happen like you think. it will be quite extraordinarily different. all i can say is strap in. the war room, a posse you've made this happen and tomorrow it's game day so strap in.
>> okay. i mean, i'm not really adding it. it just kind of is obvious. sounds like he would have a lot of critical details about january 6th like he knew something. >> yeah, i mean, once again in almost a very trump way, this guy has basically painted himself into a very troubling corner with his own statements. you know, i think we're a very, very far way off ever actually having someone sit in front of steve bannon and ask him questions. i'm not convinced that will ever happen but if it did, this is right what you go at. here he's clearly indicating some sort of advance knowledge of something that's going to happen on january 6th. i open with steve let's talk about what you said on your podcast. what did you mean? >> yeah, i want -- you know, i'm kicking myself for not asking prete this earlier. what do you expect on monday when bannon says he'll turn
himself in? >> i think it will be the standard kind of bizarre pageantry. i'm confident his lawyers will have a self-surrenderer and the cameras will catch him on the way out. it's a process. he's informed, officially informed of the charges against him. i'm sure his lawyers will ask he be released on bond, that it's likely to happen, he'll go home monday night. he's not going to be detained and then the case will begin a slow grind forward. >> well, there you go. slow. okay. well, slow and steady, let's hope that means something in this case. that ol' saying. thank you, andrew, appreciate it. now i want to bring in cnn senior legal analyst laura coates, prosecutor and senior political analyst ron brownstein. laura, you have earned your keep this week.
i've seen you on television all day for the trials, for this. there is a lot going on. so good evening to both of you. let me start with you, the january 6th committee needed this win. big picture. is today an affirmation of congressional oversight that those subpoenas that should not be ignored? >> yes, and actually a win for the rule of law. this is an open shut case in the sense that if somebody is issued a congressional subpoena, it ought to and should carry weight. there was contemplation by the department of justice, it was likely around the notion what the other 34 witnesses would try to assert. was there some colorable claim for them to privilege preparing for a case by case assertion of that privilege with the idea of it is very simple, was there a congressional subpoena issued? yes. did you compile? no. that's open and shut. everything in between, the assertion of privilege related
to somebody that was not an employee of executive branch and not anne eadvisor since 2017 an doesn't have the same plausible colorful claim of privilege as perhaps say mark meadows, former chief of staff that might be more likely to gain attention of court looking at valid assertions of privilege and steve bannon's case is probably a likely test case figuring out the different scenarios what were the contingencies and what will be the argue themments mad preparing for the next 34 stone walls by people subpoenaed by this committee. >> i don't know if there is a strategy is this a warning shot for other witnesses? >> yes, it is more than a warning. it's a federal indictment now. >> all right. >> it's a grand jury independently finding that that is actually what is happening and it's not just a warning shot. although, the trial may be long away, this actually bodes well for an appellate court to see if
there is an over signature function and what are they asking to have a blanket assertion before a question is asked is not going to cut it. >> mr. brownstein, let me ask you, trump and his followers want us to believe this is about defending executive privilege. isn't this really about people flagrantly trying to shut down questions about an attempted coup? >> yeah, and it's also about i think fund mentally about trying to normalize and excuse and explain away the insurrection itself. i mean, one of the biggest macro issues we've been dealing with since trump came down the escalator is whether our institutions are capable of defending the rule of law and democracy as we've known it. we've seen those defenses be much more rickety on many fronts
for many years than most people expected. i find it incredible that so few republicans in congress are willing to stand up to the institutional prerogatives of congress to compel testimony and to obtain information that it needs from the executive branch. i mean, we saw that when trump was in office. he tried to stone wall completely and in fact, did on the impeachment committees and we see it extending beyond office and still crickets from republicans in both chambers refusing to stand up for congress' authority which ultimately, they will need some day as well. i think before we celebrate the victory for the rule of law, we have to see whether those republican justices on the supreme court probably at the end of this line have to decide whether to toss out those claims of privilege for a former president and i don't think we know they're going to do that. >> ron, i was looking for jim jordan tweeting this.
let's put it up. joe biden has e vis rated. he's threatening to go after the biden administration but none of them staged a coup. i mean, is this just all b.s. and i mean, yeah. >> first of all, there is a difference between executive privilege and laura can talk about the executive privilege for a current administration and executive privilege claim by a former president and kind of this blanket claim of privilege that trump has done but yeah, look, i mean, you know, the larger context of this is you see trump, you know, in the tape that you played earlier and talk about later defending the attack, you see a declining share of republicans saying this was inappropriate. you see threats of violence becoming more retune in american politics from not only the top
but even at the local level, the school boards and public health officers. the character of the democracy is changing and it is frankly not only distressing but astonishing there haven't been more republicans willing to enter what effectively a popular front to defend the basic rules of democracy against the threats that trump mounted and you see if anything, people like jordan kind of abetting trump, enabling trump by threatening those who would stand up against his kind of assault on democracy. >> he said he invoked your name, laura. >> you know, executive privilege is not about protecting the political ambitions of the incomin incu incumbent. it's about preserving the institution of the presidency and there are instances you do want to have the protection of these frank candid forthright open discussion with members of your cabinet, members of your advisory panels, people who are close to the sort of not only
the inner circle but the inner oval office, as well and so president biden is already said that they're going to look at it through a case by case basis as to what to assert privilege and what not to because as i said, there is certainly not a colorable claim of executive privilege you're talking about a steve bannon, not a part of the executive branch, not a part of the administration in any way, had the bad blood out and ousted for quite sometime at least in 2017. mark meadows, a chief of staff, you could see there might be some indication and some conversations that actually could be merit and worthy of thinking about how you want to deal in the future with that sort of conversation. but you don't get a blanket level of privilege and protection if the nature of the conversation is somehow involved in a criminal enterprise or otherwise. you'll get to say listen, because i spoke to the president of the united states, then all bets are off. they actually have to make the
claim on a case by case basis and bannon versus meadows, there is a wide spectrum in between but the person that actually has bannon's case for example is somebody who is already ruled twice against interests that trump tried to assert whether it be the dominion voting and the big lie or aspects of handing over taxes to the house of representatives. idea of balancing democracy against transparency for the public is always a paramount concern and a supreme court worth the assault should recognize you cannot use the privilege for political gains. it has to be about something that is colorable, merit and not trying to destroy democracy. >> laura, ron, thank you. laura, you've been on television all week but you're marie condoing your place so between live shots, she's been spring cleaning in the fall. [ laughter ] >> i just thought i'd let our viewers know.
>> i have to find my ways to spark joy, okay? that's my decompression. thank you very much. you know what? whatever. i've been calling goodwill. pick up a lot from my house. all i'm saying. >> yeah. we all need that. >> out with the old. >> thank you, laura. thanks, ron. see you guys. >> all right. i have new developments to tell you about today in the trial of the killing of ahmaud ar arbery. the defense is apologizing to anyone who might have been his words inadvertently offended when he said this. >> we don't want any more black pastors coming in here or jesse jackson whoever was in here earlier this week sitting with the victim's family trying to influence a jury in this case. olay body wash hydrates to improve skin 3x better, from dry and dull to firm and radiant. with olay body, i feel fearless in my skin. [ joe ] my teeth were a mess. i had a lot of pain. as far as my physical health, my body was telling me you got to do something.
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a defense attorney in the trial over the killing of ahmaud arbery walking back comments he said when he said he didn't want black pastors in the courtroom. now he's apologiziapologizing, >> if my statements yesterday were overly broad, i will follow up with a more specific motion on monday putting that and those concerns in the proper context. and my apologies to anybody that might have been inadvertently offended. >> martin salvidge is covering the trial. overly broad -- there was huge out cry over what that attorney said yesterday. this incident shows how big of a role race is playing in this case. >> reporter: yeah, as if we didn't already know that and
there are so many ways race is imp impacted. three men up for murdering a black man and basically an all white jury with one african american serving on it and on top of that, there are all these in insinuations in the community you have brunswick itself which is primarily african-american or mostly and glen county is predominantly white. over and over and over again race plays an issue and then you have kevin goth who gets up and makes that statement. what does he mean by overly broad? i found that, when i listened to his explanation, it made no sense and of course, the defense, other defense teams were outraged because what they fear is that the blow back is against all of them. whatever kevin golf said will make all the defense teams look bad and there by their defendants. it was jason sheffield that came out at the noon break and
unloaded against goff. here is a sample of what he said. >> there is a lot of reporting on a statement made by kevin goff yesterday in court about wanting no more black mpastors. that statement was totally asinine ridiculous. >> reporter: you know, i will point out that kevin goff in giving his apology today said he'll be filing a motion early next week on the subject matter. so it sounds like kevin goff still has more to say when it comes to the issues of black pastors. meanwhile, we know that there is just dozens and dozens and dozens, perhaps hundreds of black pastors now planning to make their way to bruinswick, georgia next week and among them is jesse jackson who kevin goff mistakenly said was in the courtroom the other day when in fact, he was not but jesse jackson says he will be there next week. >> when he was being overly
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the reverend jesse jackson out with a deify yant statement saying a public trial deserves public observation. ben crump says next week he plans to show up with 100 black pastors to pray with the family and ben crump joins me now. ben, thank you so much. good to see you. >> good to see you always, don. >> let's talk about this defense lawyer. he's now apologizing for his comments but you plan on bringing 100 black pastors to pray next week. what is the message you want to send here, ben? >> first of all, to apologize -- he's not backing them up because they were racist only because people are calling him out for them being racist and so that's
why attorney merit and i feel we need to make sure the family of ahmaud arbery and any other victims who are trying to be marginalized by racism and discrimination know that the black pastors are always welcome to pray for these families in need and so we're going to be very careful not to give them any reason for a mistrial however, we won't do anything to bridge the first amendment rights of our clients especially when it comes to prayer. >> you know, we see -- look, race is a central role in this case. we see it in the defense lawyers s ignore ant comments, we see i in the makeup of the jury. while in the rittenhouse trial those shot can't be labeled ver victims. what does that show in the justice system? >> it what i wrote in my book,
it's bad that they kill us in the streets but it's even worse when they use the laws to kill us and try to justify them with technicalities. don, when you think about if the roles were reversed and you had a black father and a black son chase down an unarmed young white man and shoot and kill him you would not find anybody who wouldn't say it was bloody murder and every ruling would go against that black father and son and with the rittenhouse trial, man, the judge seems to be so bias in favor of rittenhouse even though this is a young man who killed two unarmed people. now think about if he was a young african american and that's what the issue is in america. we can't have these two justice systems, one for white america and another for black america
and every time it happens, we have to hold a mirror to america's face. >> i want to ask you about the astroworld tragedy and boy, it is that. it left nine people dead. you're representing more than 200 people including a 9-year-old currently in a coma. you filed more than 90 lawsuits. what are your clients looking for, ben? >> well, the biggest thing, don, you want to hold those accountable on every level. starting with live nation, the world's largest concert and music festival promoter. they do concerts all over the world and we want to make sure they give justice to those catastrophically injured and psychologically injured but also, those families who are dealing with losing their children. some of them in high school, some of them in college, some sense of justice but most
importantly, we want to change the industry to make sure this never ever happens again. don lemon, when you go to a concert, you should not have to risk your life. >> ben crump, ben, i want to say in the ahmaud arbery case, can you give our regards to mrs. cooper jones. i can't imagine what it's like being in a courtroom and watching that footage and reliving this daily. thank you for what you're doing and appreciate it. talk to you soon. >> thank you, brother. >> thank you. the january 6th insurrectionist, kyle rittenhouse, the three charged in the killing with ahmaud arbery. what happens when people take justice into their own hands? we'll talk about that next. let's open your binders to page 188... uh carl, are there different planning options in here? options? plans we can build on our own, or with help from a financial consultant? like schwab does. uhhh... could we adjust our plan... ...yeah, like if we buy a new house? mmmm... and our son just started working.
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the role of vigilantes, a key factor in the trials playing out in wisconsin and in georgia. but what does it have to do with january 6th and the rioters who stormed the capitol? let's get right to it now. cnn political commentator bakari sellers and cnn legal analyst elliott williams here. happy friday. happy friday. bakari, look at the people at the center of these inls cident the three men charged with killing ahmaud arbery. what is the through line you see? >> i think, don, you pointed out
something in the word vigilantes, you're seeing that individuals are taking what they believe to be misdeeds in their own hands, you have people storm the capitol because they felt government wasn't doing their job and people in kenosha or rittenhouse in kenosha allowing his mom to take him across state lines with an ar-15, which still blows my mind because my mom asks me if i had mcdonald's money so i can't imagine asking her if she would take me across state lines with an ar-15 but that's another story about where is his father? because government was not doing their job and then in georgia, you had individuals who thought ahmaud arbery was breaking into homes or trespassing and government wasn't doing their job so there is this through line where white men feel as if they have to take this vigilantes into their hands and this is what happens, bloodshed. >> isn't it similar -- we'll get
against the government because they believe their cause was just because they were fed a diet of lies that just sunk in. so yes, it's -- this is all a question of empowerment misunderstanding of the law and the entitlement to harm other people. anyway, yeah, there it is. >> bakari, listen to this. this is from court today. i know elliott is like i'm done. this is from court today from defense attorney jason sheffield who represents travis mcmichael in the killing of ahmaud arbery, here it is. >> it appears that the evidence in this case is overwhelming about one thing and one thing in particular, this case is not about a lynching. this case is not about racism or racist motives. this is just a neighborhood and some people trying to do the best they could to stop the crime in the new ighborhood. >> okay. screams privilege to me but what do you say? >> as a fellow lawyer, i mean, that is -- i mean, that's the
best b.s. you can do. i mean, i hope he's getting paid top dollar for that one. look, this is -- what we're talking about and just so every viewer understands this is this is a privilege that elliott, don, bar cbakari cannot get awa with and the resentment, it bears repeating, some of the resentment we feel is the fact that we've seen individuals that look like us succumb to the inability for the country to get people who look like us grace and when we see people be able to flaunt the system, abuse the system, to bamboozle the system where our brothers and sisters are not able to even get the grace that this system is supposed to allow us, that's what bothers us the most and i always said i think all of these cases bring to mind kalif broader. i think about him often in a
rikers prison in a solitary confinement hangs himself for stealing a backpack. i mean, it's obscene. so that's the frustration in this country not everyone understands. >> don, to add one additional point whether the arbery case is about race, there is at least an allegation in the case one of the defendants uses an ethnic slur after arbery is dead on the ground. so this idea of this is people keeping their neighborhoods safe, i want to keep my neighborhood safe, too but this whole idea that race is divorced from it makes literally no sense. >> they were driving -- elliott, they were driving a truck with a confederate flag on the front. is that culture -- >> all of the above but, you know, bakari, set aside the question what the confederate flag means, right? we know what the "n" word means and there is at least this question that he uses it when the guy is lying bleeding out on
the ground. this whole idea you can totally separate everything from race merely because it's people seeking to protect property or defend a neighborhood makes no sense. it's just an allegation i want to be clear but that's a pretty significant one, don. >> what is the distinction between patriotism or keeping your community safe versus just straight up vigilantes? keeping naeighborhood safe seem to be keeping those people out or exercising whatever right they have. i'm just -- you know. >> we have a system of laws until the country. there are times you can defend yourself. it's going to vary from state to state when you can use force to defend your property. yo u you don't have a right in every state to merely cross state lines to kill people. that's just vigilantes and it doesn't -- it's not a blanket
license for violence. >> got ya. i got ten seconds only, bakari, please. >> i mean, i can say it in ten seconds. there is a difference between patriotism and prejudice and people in this country confuse the two so often and it's not a new concept. this is not patriotism. elliott, don and myself are just as patriotic as anybody else. we feel like nothing is irreparable and want to reimagine what she looks like and that's the fundamental problem -- it's a long story but we'll talk about it another time. >> thank you both. appreciate it. good to see you. he makes inappropriate jokes and plays jeopardy with the jurors and yells at attorneys and now people are questioning if he's the right person to lead the court? we'll look at the judge in charge of the rittenhouse trial. that's next. for an email response from steve, who will sign back in at 9 am tomorrow morning. orrrr... you could find the answer right now in slack. and give steve a break. slack. where the future works.
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rittenhouse. wisconsin's longest-serving circuit judge, schroeder is a known history buff. connecting with the jurors in a game of "jeopardy." >> both the 100 and 200 meters in the 1988 olympics. who is florence griffith-joyner. >> trying to keep the mood light with jokes that sometimes fail. like this culturally insensitive remark. >> i hope the asian food isn't coming -- it isn't on one of those boats in long beach harbor. >> reporter: but doesn't hold back when crossed. >> the court left the door open. >> for me. not for you! >> my understanding -- >> you should have come and asked. don't get brazen with me. >> i've been yelled at. i mean, if you push the line, you will get him yelling at you. if judge schroeder's yelling at you, you know that you're still in the game. you're not going to get a mistrial. >> defense attorney john anthony ward says he's argued before judge schroeder hundreds if not thousands of times in nearly four decades of practice in kenosha. >> judge schroeder is not a
pro-defense judge under any stretch of the imagination. many a defendant have entered a plea bargain thinking they were going to get probation, to end up in prison, totally to their shock. >> reporter: schroeder's every word decision and behavior has come under intense scrutiny in this two-week trial. schroeder has not allowed attorneys to call the three men shot by rittenhouse victims, a long-standing rule of this judge, but could be described as looters or rioters. but schroeder is no stranger to the spotlight. from a high-profile 2008 homicide of a woman, the ruling overturned and still being argued today as schroeder pointed out in court. >> and one of the things that i've read over and over and over again is about how i messed up the state against jensen case which is now pending downstairs. actually, i had it 100% correct in the first place. >> reporter: schroeder was the judge in an unusual condition of parole for a woman convicted of
shoplifting at the pleasant prairie outlet mall. schroeder ruled the woman had to tell any store that sells goods that she walks into that she'd been convicted of shoplifting, telling her it's going to embarrass you of course. earlier this year the wisconsin state court of appeals disagreed, saying schroeder's ruling falls into the category of shaming. >> there's no -- ♪ >> reporter: in the rittenhouse trial. where national politics and race are clashing. even the judge's ring tone is being watched. that's "god bless the usa" by lee greenwood. one of donald trump's rally songs. >> this judge is apolitical. if you try to define judge schroeder on the basis of politics, you're going to get lost. what's important to him is if the person's guilty that he's found guilty and if he's not guilty then he's found not guilty. >> all of this interest surrounding the judge is going to shift to the jury.
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are you a christian author with a book that you're ready to share with the world? get published now, call for your free publisher kit today! good evening. there is breaking news tonight in the investigation in the worst attack on democracy by americans since the civil war. the news may turn out to be so significant that if things hadn't gone the way they just did, the house select committee on january 6th might just as well have closed up shop. for a month and a half former senior trump adviser steve bannon had been openly defying the will of congress. first, a committee subpoena.