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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  November 10, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PST

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blaming the setback partly on litigation by jeff bezos and blue origin because bezos's blue origin tried to challenge the contract with elon musk. the landing on the moon had been set for 2024 by the trump administration. the goal is to set up a long-term presence on the lunar surface so astronauts can learn how to live and work. you know, incredibly low gravity, right, to provide a roadmap to land humans on mars. thanks joining us. anderson starts now. good evening. as days in court go, they don't get any more dramatic or consequential perhaps to the case in question today in kenosha, wisconsin. defendant kyle rittenhouse taking the stand. he is 18 years old now. 17 when he shot three people, killing two during the unrest there last summer. what he said explaining his actions and his decision to pick up an ar-15 and travel to kenosha, as well as how the prosecution conducted its
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cross-examination and how explosively the judge react today that could be pivotal in the homicide case against rittenhouse. i want to first go to cnn's sara sidner in kenosha. sarah? >> yeah, there was both yelling and sobbing in this trial today. the sobbing coming from kyle rittenhouse. the yelling, coming from the judge in this case. >> reporter: kyle rittenhouse took the stand in his own defense for the killing of two men and wounding of another last summer during the unrest that exploded in kenosha, wisconsin. >> on the night of the 24th, were you aware of anything going on in kenosha? >> i -- i knew there was protests, demonstrations, and riots going on in the later evening. >> okay. and how were you aware of that? >> i saw videos on social media. >> reporter: the next day, his friend suggested they go to help protect businesses and they did, he testified. he said they went to the car source car dealership, and the owners accepted their help. >> did they give you permission
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to be there? >> they did. >> reporter: later-that night, rittenhouse said he left the dealership and was asked by his friend to put out a fire elsewhere. that led to his first deadly shooting. when it came time to talk about it, though, rittenhouse broke down in sobs saying he was cornered. >> i -- i hear somebody scream burn in hell. and i replied with friendly, friendly, friendly to let them know, hey, i'm just here to help. >> reporter: he said he noticed a dumpster fire, went towards it and was approached by two men. >> as i was stepping forward, i believe his name is now joshua ziminski. he steps towards me with the pistol in his hand, and as i'm walking towards to put out the fire, i drop the fire extinguisher and i -- i take a step back. i look over my shoulder. and mr. rosenbaum was now running from my right side. i was cornered from in front of me with mr. ziminski and there
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were -- there was three people right there. >> take a deep breath, kyle. >> reporter: his sobbing prompted the judge to call for a break. rittenhouse returned completely composed. >> mr. rosenbaum was right there at the corner of the duramax starting to chase me. a gunshot is fired from behind me, and i take a few steps and that's when i turn around. and as i'm turning around, mr. rosenbaum is coming at me with his arms out in front of him. he -- he -- i remember his hand on the barrel of my gun. >> as you see him lunging at you, what do you do?
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>> i shoot him. >> and how many times did you shoot? >> i believe four. >> reporter: rittenhouse says he began to run. >> people were screaming get his ass, get his ass, get him, get him, get him. >> reporter: rittenhouse then describes how and why he shot the other two men saying he was defending his own life. >> mr. huber. he was holding a skateboard like a baseball bat and he swings it down and i block it with my arm, trying to prevent it from hitting me. but it still hits me in the neck. and as i block it, it goes flying somewhere off in the distance. >> and do you stop him? >> no. i get lightheaded. i almost pass out, and i stumble and hit the ground. >> okay. >> i'm on my back, and mr. huber runs up. he -- as i'm getting up -- he strikes me in the neck with his skateboard a second time. >> then, what happened? >> he grabs my gun and i can
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feel it pulling away from me, and i can feel the strap starting to come off my -- my body. >> and what do you do then? >> i fire one shot. >> after you fire, striking we now know mr. hubber, what do you do? >> i lower my weapon and i see mr. grosskreutz. he lunges at me with his pistol pointed directly at my head. >> did you re-rack your weapon? >> i did not. >> reporter: that contradicted gaige grosskreutz's testimony where he said rittenhouse try today reload his gun. rittenhouse said he only fired at him when his life was in danger. prosecutors then cross-examined rittenhouse, questioning him about why he possessed a gun. >> so, you are telling us that the reason that you wanted dominic to buy you an ar-15, as opposed to a pistol, is -- is the only reason was because you felt you couldn't lawfully possess a pistol? >> correct. >> you didn't pick out the ar-15 for any other reason?
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>> i thought it looked cool. >> reporter: the prosecution also tried to bring in evidence that rittenhouse had said he wished he had a gun to shoot shoplifters in the days before he arrived in kenosha. >> you'd agree with me that you're not allowed to use deadly force to protect property, correct? >> yes. >> but yet, you have, previously, indicated that you wished you had your ar-15 to protect someone's property, correct? >> reporter: the judge, suddenly, sent the jury out. then, admonished the prosecutor for questions about evidence that he said he'd excluded from the trial. and the prosecutor's questions about rittenhouse requesting an attorney after turning himself in to police. >> don't get brazen with me. uh, you knew very well. you know very well that an attorney can't go into these types of areas when the judge has already ruled without asking outside the presence of the jury to do so. so don't give me that. >> sara, what do we know about
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the possibility of a mistrial? >> that was quite a tongue lashing there and that was just a little bit of that tongue lashing from the judge to the prosecution. we do know the defense, after all of this happened, did tell the judge that they intend to file for a motion for a mistrial. the judge said that he would consider it. so, we are waiting for that to happen. we do know, though, that the defense is continuing its case. it is going to bring another young man in -- a friend of kyle rittenhouse who we have heard from. who bought him that ar-15. that's expected to happen tomorrow. anderson. >> sara sidner, appreciate it. joining us now, cnn legal analyst, paul callan, who has considerable experience on both the criminal defense and prosecution sides of the courtroom. also, harvard law school senior lecturer and former federal judge. appreciate you both being with us. what do you make of the defense's strategy of putting rittenhouse on the stand? >> well, most defense lawyers were shocked that, um, he took the stand because lawyers are terrified to put their own clients on the stand. and um, i was very surprised at
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how remarkably effective he was as a witness. he put together, um, really, a very solid self-defense claim. i mean, he was -- he said people had thrown rocks at the back of his head, knocked him to the ground. that, um, he had -- that one of the individuals he fired the shots at had not only threatened to kill him but threatened to cut his heart out. um, and of course he broke into tears as he, you know, explained how the killing took place. so i think he made a very, very good witness on his own behalf. >> judge gertner, you saw how judge schroeder admonished the prosecution at times today. and i want to play one of the moments where the judge goes after the prosecution for what they are bringing up in court. let's watch this. >> i don't believe you. there better not be another incident. i will take the motion under advisement. and you can respond. um, when you say that you were
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acting in good faith, i don't believe that. okay? let's proceed. everybody, in good faith. all right. >> as a judge, yourself, i'm wondering what you thought of what we saw today in the courtroom? >> i -- i don't think that in 17 years that i was on the bench, that i ever admonished a lawyer in that way. um, and you also have to begin with this is the judge who when he began, told the defense that they could call the victims, looters, arsonists, and protestors. and that the defense was entitled to demonize the victims to score points with the jury. that was an extraordinary comment. um, and whereas the prosecutor was not allowed to call the people who had been shot victims, which of course is standard. so, um, candidly, i was troubled by his behavior. i didn't think that anything the prosecutor did warranted that kind of an outburst. um, and that kind of rage. um, but of course, i wasn't in
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the courtroom so i can't tell. but still, the -- um -- you know, lawyers make mistakes in the heat of the trial. and um, and so this was -- i was putting in the context of the other instructions that he had given, which were very, very troubling. >> and, judge, just -- i mean, you have seen a lot of defendants on -- at the stand. what did you think of how kyle rittenhouse was -- was today? >> you know, i thought -- i -- i agree that he was -- that he was effective. but, you know, i really want to step back and say that this -- the self-defense is actually not available to somebody who provokes an attack. and there is an argument that the prosecutor's going to make that -- that the 17-year-old who is carrying around an ar-17 was provoking an attack. you can respond in self-defense, but only if the provocation that you started leads to the person -- to -- to become essentially the aggressor. um, what's troubling here is a skateboard and an ar-17 -- an ar-15. that just doesn't match. the judge actually could keep a
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self-defense instruction from the jury. not likely in this case. doesn't take much. but you really have to step back. this is really not the kind of situation, for which the laws of self-defense were designed. >> but -- but, judge, i mean, somebody can be beaten to death with a skateboard. >> yeah but you're -- but -- but the standard is to use -- you are allowed to use deadly force when you are threatened with imminent deadly force. and um, we -- to be sure, it doesn't take much to make a self-defense claim. but typically, when you're the provoker, you don't get the benefit of self-defense. that -- that -- that horse is out of the barn. i mean, this judge is obviously going to let rittenhouse indulge in a self-defense defense. and he was very effective for that. >> yeah. >> he certainly described his fear and that was -- that was impressive. >> paul, go ahead. paul, go ahead. >> yeah. the defense is going to claim that he was not the initial aggressor. in fact, he -- he was carrying
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the ar-15 as a self-defense measure. and he only started to use it after he was attacked and his assailants threatened to kill him. one of them had a gun and, as a matter of fact, the prosecutor brought out that he had heard shots being fired at the scene, as well. so, there is a lot of provocation on the other side. so there's -- there's no way that the self-defense claim is going to be taken away from him. it will baee up to the jury to decide but i think he made as compelling a self-defense claim as i have seen in a courtroom and i have tried quite a few murder cases. >> judge, it is an interesting argument that -- that you are referencing. the idea that somebody -- it's not like he is a trained security officer. he doesn't have experience. he, clearly, from what it seems like, had never been in a kinetic, volatile, violent situation like this. he chose to insert himself into the midst of it. albeit, he said, just to protect property. um, but are -- are you saying
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that if somebody does that, if they insert themselves into a volatile situation, knowing it's a volatile situation, that -- that any form -- i mean, that -- that there's no way he can have self-defense just because he inserted himself -- i mean, if somebody in the midst of a riot gets attacked, they can't defend themselves? >> no, i -- listen. i -- i was -- it was a point about what the law is to some degree about what the legal policy is. that usually, self-defense is not a situation in which you are the provoker. that -- the exception would be where you have provoked a confrontation, and then the other person becomes the aggressor and you think you're in danger. and in this situation, i thought that the prosecutor brought out something that the press isn't covering. that, you know, he was guarding this car dealership. and then, he decided to go into the -- into the -- carrying an ar-15. and some of those comments that
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he was getting initially was because he was armed and in that melee. i -- again, i agree that the judge is going to give him a self-defense instruction. but i -- i wanted to step back and say this is really not what self-defense was intended to do. and your point about police is very interesting because, you know, we've spent the past almost two years being concerned about police' use of deadly force against a civilian. and they are trained. the notion that we're doing anything to privilege a 17-year-old carrying an ar-15 who, in fact, has no idea how to deal with these situations has got to be troubling for all of us. >> yeah. judge, i really appreciate you being with us. thank you. and paul callan, as well. thanks so much. coming up next. the uncle of jacob blake, whose shooting by a kenosha police officer touched out of the unrest at the center of this case. i'll talk to justin blake about what he wants to see from this trial. and later, breaking news as the house or at least a number of house democrats prepare to seek sanctions against congressman paul gosar over his posting of that violent photo-shopped anime video
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kyle rittenhouse trial resumes tomorrow morning. the defense saying it attempts to call several more witnesses. the judge telling jurors he expects to finish the case sometime early next week. few people have been following trial more closely than our next guest. the uncle of jacob blake. jaco jacob blake was partially paralyzed. last month, the justice department decided not to pursue civil rights charges against the officer who shot him. mr. blake, thanks for being with us. i am wondering what your reaction was to kyle rittenhouse's testimony was today? >> thank you for having us tonight. well first off, it was just unplausible, the things that he was talking about, the way he felt, the crying and the -- the display that he showed. nobody wants to hear that. this young man -- once you step into an adult world, you are sort of trapped on that side.
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he don't want to be 17-year-old home playing atari or home playing whatever game they play these days. he has to suffer the consequences of it. two men are dead and will never walk back through the doors of their mother and father's. they had girlfriends, they had fiancees, they had a life. these are two human beings. they are not animals. they aren't dogs like they were shot in the street. they are human beings with families, lives, and loved ones. >> do you believe that rittenhouse has remorse for what he did? >> there's no remorse. you can't show remorse because you don't have any way. every day, they listen and read the doctrine of that's close to the ku klux klan and the skinheads. how can you blame a kid, the 17-year-old, that listens to that over and over again and then goes out and actually acts it out? >> from what i understand, you have been outside the courthouse every day so far. to you, what does justice in this case look like? >>. >> well, justice looks like
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being little jake's uncle that was shot seven times in the back by kenosha police officer in front of his three kids and paralyzed. we didn't get chance to go to court. little jake hasn't had his day in court. his day was the bullets and the seven shots in the back. these people made it to trial. they have got 12 people who are -- seem to be breathing and conscious of what's going on in their community. and they have the chance to settle the bill for those two families. although, the judge has put his hand on the scale from time to time and made that very difficult and set precedence almost to let this kid walk. the 12 jurors, finally, will be holding the last say. >> and just finally, your nephew jacob blake, how is he doing in his recovery? >> man, he's our hero, bro. he gets into his therapy every day. he's mentally on top of his game. he said he is going to walk next summer and we're looking forward to it. as his uncle, we do want to say this presidency has let the families down of the floyds, of
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austin, of the aunt of breonna taylor is upside down about the president not following with the words he said. jacob blake, my big brother, is very upset about the president and the vice president not following up on what they said. we need protection. we helped build this country. 300 years of free slavery, we are the richest country in the world. if anybody deserves to vote, we deserve to vote. if anybody deserves civil rights and liberties, we deserve those civil rights and liberties. >> mr. blake, appreciate your time tonight. thank you. >> big ups to the real black and green. thank you. up next, cnn exclusive. who the january 6th select committee wants to talk to from former-vice president mike pence's inner circle. jamie gangel joins us with her exclusive reporting, next.
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on january 6th is interested in gathering information from at least five members of former-vice president mike pence's inner circle according to sources familiar with the effort. our special correspondent, jamie gangel, broke the story. joins us now with her exclusive reporting. jamie, good to see you. so the vice president's former-national security adviser, keith kellogg, has already been subpoenaed. who else does the house select committee want to talk to? >> so, i -- i think in the end, it's going to be a long list. we know of at least five members of pence's inner circle who told some of these individuals who are close to pence may be willing to cooperate, either voluntarily or under the guise of a friendly subpoena. and according to our sources, some pence aides are actually proving more willing to engage with the committee than has been, previously, made public. you mention keith kellogg, who was just subpoenaed. other aides the committee is -- are -- would be interested in. former-chief of staff, mark short, who was at the capitol
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that day with pence. former-chief counsel greg jacob, who was the person who pushed back on john eastman in that memo. and keith kellogg, who you mentioned, who has significant firsthand knowledge because he was actually with donald trump in the oval office on january 6th. he saw everything trump did. um, cnn reached out to the aides who, it won't surprise you to know, didn't respond or declined to comment. i think they really do not want any publicity that they're engaging with the committee. the house committee chairman, bennie thompson, did go on the record and confirm that the committee was getting some cooperation. but bottom line, anderson, these are witnesses who have significant firsthand knowledge. and for the first time, we're hearing that they are engaging with the committee. >> it's fascinating to hear that. in terms of the standoff between
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pence's staff and then-president's staff on january 6th, how might that play into what pence staffers tell the committee? >> so, we've heard from the beginning that pence staffers were very angry, both, in the lead-up to january 6th and that day. and that certainly, i think, is playing a role into how and why they're engaging with the committee. they, also, have texts, e-mails, other documents that could be of interest. but i want to highlight this tweet, which was flagged for me. it's actually from the night of january 6th. we might have forgotten about it. it was put out on pence's official twitter account. and let me just say i don't think pence was tweeting these photo of him that night. he is surrounded by capitol police. he is on the loading dock of the capitol where he was hiding. i think it is fair to say the staff, who were very angry, put that out as a clear statement
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that while president trump was watching the insurrection on tv. while people were calling for "hang mike pence," that the former-vice president was thanking the police for protecting him and the country. >> wow. fascinating. that -- it's going to be fascinating to see what happens with this. jamie gangel, appreciate it. thank you. now, the former president's late et setback in efforts to keep documents away from the select committee. the national archives is set to release them actually on friday. last night, federal district judge tonya chutkan gave the green light in a ruling that read in part, quote, presidents are not kings and plaintiff is not president. well, late today, lawyers for the not president who would be king appealed the case and sought a stay in the judge's order. she has yet to rule on that. want to bring in cnn's chief legal analyst, jeffrey toobin. so first ever all, just the fact that they have asked for a stay, they are asking for a stay from the -- the same judge who gave that ruling? >> right. that's how it works. um, the -- the first thing you have to do when you are asking for a stay is you ask the judge
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who -- who made the original order. it's unlikely that judge will grant the stay since she said the -- the former president's position had no merit. but you have to jump through that hoop before you have the right to go to the court of appeals -- the d.c. circuit -- which then could grant a stay. and that's really, i think, where the action's going to be over the next 24 hours because, you know, that is a very politically polarized court, the d.c. circuit. there are seven democrats, four republicans. also, several republicans who are senior who have senior status, sometimes sitting cases. how the randomly-drawn three-judge panel turns out could be enormously important because if there are judges who are sympathetic to the former president, they could issue a stay. and that could delay this for many months. but if there is no stay, it really does look like the -- um -- the national archives will begin to turn over those
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documents. and this investigation, which has been stymied in many respects, might make some real progress. >> so it may boil down to kind of a roll of the dice of who is on a three-person panel deciding from the district court? >> exactly. exactly. especially -- and this is true, i mean this is a broader lesson about the federal judiciary now. you know, the federal judiciary -- the judges don't like to hear this but on politically sensitive cases, um, the difference between democratically-appointed judges, obama judges, clinton judges, biden judges, and trump judges in particular is so enormous. and particularly in a politically charged case like this one. the makeup of this panel will tell you an enormous amount about how the case will ultimately be resolved. >> that is kind of depressing. the former president and his team. they seem to be making the argument that they are trying to protect the rights of the presidency, which is what anybody who is trying to, you know, any president tries to do
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or says they are trying to do. um, but is that -- does that make sense in terms of how executive privilege is understood legally? because i mean, the current president is the one who decides this and the current president says there is a greater reason to -- to have these documents out there. >> you know, judge chutkan's opinion is really fascinating on this. i mean, she -- she basically says, look, you know, it is -- the -- the executive privilege does not exist to protect the individual who happens to be president. it exists to protect the institution of the presidency. so, yes, it is true that former presidents may seek to invoke it. but we give great deference to the current president because that is the person who is charged with the responsibility of preserving the prerogatives of the executive branch. so, when you have a conflict here between the current president and the former president, you almost always are going to defer to the current president because he is the person who is now responsible for the prerogatives of the
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executive branch. you know, i have to say, this is a relatively new area. there are not a lot of cases. so, it -- it would not surprise me if this case goes to the d.c. circuit, and ultimately to the supreme court. but i thought judge chutkan's opinion was quite persuasive and we'll see if the three-judge panel thinks likewise. >> it's also interesting because i mean it's bigger than just the executive branch. it's also the legislative branch. i mean, you have a -- a -- you know, a duly-appointed commission which is investigating this. so it's congress, as well as the executive branch, wanting the national archives to release this stuff. >> and again, that is a point that the judge makes, which is, you know, this is about the structure of american government. is that we need to honor the wishes of the different branches of government. we have the executive branch, on one side. president biden, representing
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that. and we have the legislative branch, which is seeking this information. these people have -- these -- these institutions have prerogatives. and i, as a representative of the third branch of government, should not lightly overturn the will of both of the other branches of government which are here allied in saying that the national archives should turn over this material. >> jeff toobin, appreciate it thanks we will be watching. coming up next, breaking news from democrats but more thundering silence from republican kevin mccarthy on disciplining the congressman with a violent anime attacking a fellow lawmaker. why the man who might, one day, be speaker if he gets his dream that comes true has so little to say about the bad behavior of his members. do you remember who this is? it's a gift that surprises you, moves you, and bonds you. ...papa? i can see the nose and everything. she was the original strong woman. i know. this holiday, give the gift of family.
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there is breaking news tonight the first concrete step toward consequences for a congressman who put out a photo shopped anime video depicting himself murdering a co-worker and attacking the president of the united states. ten house democrats tonight announcing they'll introduce a resolution to censure arizona republican paul gosar, unclear whether it will get a vote. that will be up to the house democratic leadership. as for the house republican leader, kevin mccarthy, let's just say there have been no anime videos of him springing into action to discipline one of his own. that wasn't even a silent movie or a single peep, for that matter. for a second-straight day, leader mccarthy had nothing to say at all about congressman gosar's video pitting himself armed with sbwords against
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alexandria ocasio-cortez and the president. the main issue, which is the deafening silence of his party's leadership on it which i mean, really, shouldn't come as a shock. gop these days with rare exceptions is not a party all that keen on self-examination. especially, when it comes to obnoxious and crude or even outright threatening behavior toward colleagues or the president. >> let's go, brandon. i yield back. >> that's florida republican congressman bill posy. ended his remarks last month with the right-wing meme for f joe biden. i he said it on the house floor, faced no consequences from his party. he sort of did it in a lackluster way. didn't really put his heart into it, didn't seem. remember when joe wilson shouted you lied during an obama state of the union speech. that was considered shocking. he faced no consequences as well from his party, which voted back then overwhelmingly against a resolution to disapproval. as for the priorities this time,
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well, republicans including leader mccarthy certainly have found time to drum congresswoman liz cheney out of her leadership position at the former president's bidding. now in her case, of course, her offense seems to have been seeking out the truth about january 6th. we invited speaker mccarthy on the program and just like his response to the gosar controversy, we didn't hear anything. so it goes. perspective now from cnn chief political analyst, gloria borger. and s.e. cup. gloria, first of all, what do you make of the plan for a democrat resolution to censure congressman gosar? >> we are not sure if it's going to go anywhere. they are going to introduce it on friday. um, i think it's not surprising that it comes from the democrats. remember, it was the democrats who voted to strip marjorie taylor greene of her committee assignments. um, who said, you know, this shall not stand and they put that on the house floor. so clearly, they believe something has to be done but it's -- as you were talking about just a moment ago, where
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is kevin mccarthy? this is about leadership. this is about his leadership team. this is about how a member of congress ought to behave, not about well, gee, you know, will this hurt me with donald trump? because donald trump likes paul gosar, i want to be the next speaker of the house and on and on. i mean, there is a moral obligation, it would seem to me, to speak out and say this can't stand. this person needs to learn a lesson here. and of course, mccarthy doesn't want to do that. >> s.e., i haven't heard the term moral obligation in relation to -- i mean, i don't say this with any like pride. like in relation to a lot of folks in congress of late. >> i mean, it's no surprise that we're here. the president, himself, used threatening language against members of congress. anyone he deemed an enemy, which was the media, which was intelligence officers, which were diplomats. i mean, it didn't -- it didn't
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really matter. um, anyone who came across his path was -- was an enemy and he really riled people up, um, to turn against their own neighbors. and unsurprisingly, they did. but there is another layer here, anderson, which is one of misogyny. and women in any kind of public eye. um, get this sort of -- they get death -- the death fantasies. we get rape fantasies. i have been subject of some of these and they're awful. um, conservatives really used to rail against that kind of misogyny when it came from political figures, like keith overman. or even rush limbaugh. women, though, never should expect to get that from a sitting member of congress. that's the shocking part, that a sitting member of congress put out a video wherein he, in an animated way, kills a woman in congress. i mean, it is shocking. and again, unsurprising because
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no one ever expected a sitting president to do that kind of -- to use that kind of misogynistic language against women. and yet, he did. >> i mean, gloria, the -- the paul gosar has a long list of just reprehensible things. i am not even talking about sort of politically. i am just talking about just from a human standpoint, he's just been pretty reprehensible of late. or -- i mean, i don't know how long back it goes but i have only been paying attention to him for a year or so. but how do you square the republican party wanting to punish its members for voting to fix bridges and roads but not punish them -- which they're all out there in their states, you know, promoting, frankly -- but not punishing them for producing a video like this? >> it's -- it's -- it -- it defies explanation. i mean, you know, here they are finally getting some bipartisanship on capitol hill. but you have donald trump out there -- and i guess he's the reason -- donald trump out there saying, you know, you -- all these people who voted for infrastructure, you've got to
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defeat them. you have marjorie taylor greene giving out their -- their phone numbers. and, um, why? don't forget -- and i was just thinking about this today -- donald trump, himself, signed onto, in theory, a $2 trillion infrastructure plan when he was president till he walked out on the democrats because he was mad they were investigating him. but he was for infrastructure, until the democrats voted for it and why? they -- they don't want to give joe biden a win on anything. and trump came out and said that. and so, republicans are just following because they don't know any other way at this point. and it's -- it's really, um, depressing actually. >> so i mean, s.e., is it going to pay off? i mean, the gamble the republican leadership is making right now, is that going to pay off politically? >> probably. um, yeah. there doesn't seem to be any pain, anger, or division that
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republicans are not willing to exploit and manipulate. um, to -- to -- to collect votes, to please trump, to remain in power. and so, i don't think there's anywhere they won't go. nowhere is off limits. i just think -- i -- i fear and i -- i -- in fact, i just know -- this is going to end badly. and violently. and i wonder if that's what it will take for republicans to stop turning americans against americans. we already saw the violence it recked -- wreaked at the capitol. we have seen violence. is that what it's going to take for these guys, for this party to rediscover their souls? um, because that is what he it feels like. it feels like there's nowhere they won't go anymore. >> s.e. cup, gloria borger, thank you. up next, the neighbor who called to report seeing ahmaud arbery inside a house under construction minutes before he was gunned down takes the stand in the trial in the men accused of the killing. what he saw that was, in his
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a man who called police to report ahmaud arbery inside a house under construction testified today in a trial of the men who are accused of chasing him down and killing him. a neighbor said after he called a police nonemergency number he heard gunshots and came across what he described as a shocking scene where arbery's body was lying in the load also on the stand, a detective who challenged the idea that arbery had committed a crime. >> do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? i do. >> reporter: the defense tried to dismantle the defense's claim that the three defendants were
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trying to commit a citizen's arrest. defendant mcmichael said he didn't know if he had seen arbery that day. >> that's just it, i don't know, that's what i told -- i told what's her name out there, i said, listen, you might want to go knock on doors down there because this guy had just done something that he was fleeing from. >> reporter: in earlier testimony, the first officer to interview gregory mcmichael while still on the scene said he never once mentioned the men were attempting to apprehend arbery. >> did he ever tell you while you're talking to him that he was intending to make a citizen's arrest? >> gnknow, ma'am. >> did he use the word "arrest"? >> no, ma'am. >> reporter: a video taken by one of the defendants shows two armed white men, father and son, the mcmichaels, confronting
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arbery as he runs down the road. they struggle over the shotgun. arbery is shot three times and collapses. gregory mcmichael's defense attorney argued the senior mcmichael feared arbery would kill his son travis if he got control of the shotgun. >> if he had gotten that shotgun and there was any separation between travis and him, i was going to cap his ass. >> dear god, we call you. >> reporter: outside the courthouse during lunch recess, arbery's family and their attorneys held a prayer vigil. the reverend al sharpton called arbery's death a lynching of the 21st century that for a long time received little or no intention. >> let's not be fooled. they never intended for these three to be in the courtroom. the reason they are even on trial is because some of us stood with this father and mother and demanded justice. >> reporter: back in court, the prosecution interviewed the first witness from the neighborhood where arbery was
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killed. matthew albenzi is the voice on the now widely-played call to police that first reported arbery in the neighborhood that day. >> what is he doing? >> running down the street. >> reporter: when he called police, he dialed the nonemergency number for the glenn county police department not 911, something he was asked about on the witness stand. >> you didn't dial 911. >> no. >> why didn't you dial 911? >> i didn't -- i did not see an emergency. >> reporter: not long after, he says he heard gunshots and when he went to the scene he was shocked to see the person he had just reported to authorities now lying in a pool of blood in the middle of the road and gregory and travis mcmichael standing nearby. >> it's just so -- that videotape, since the state decided to try all three men at the same time, has that complicated the trial? >> reporter: has it ever. i mean, this is the first time i've covered a trial where you
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have three defendants being tried all at the same time. just the sheer logistics, you have the prosecution and normally one defense team. here you have one defense team, then another defense team, then another defense team, all seated side by side, with of course the defendants in the courtroom as well. the state gets up and provides a witness like they did today, that witness is likely to be interviewed four different times, first by the state, then by one attorney from each of those defense teams. then there are the objections. often it could be one attorney, two attorneys, three attorneyso they may not object over the same thing. it forces the judge to send the jury out of the room while they try to settle all the disputes. it is extremely frustrating, anderson. >> martin savidge, appreciate it, thank you. up next, break news on the ban on mask mandates by the texas governor. a new ruling from the federal judge, ahead.
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breaking news in the mask wars. a federal judge in texas ruled
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governor greg abbott's executive order prohibiting mask mandates in texas schools violates the americans with disabilities act. the law comes after a debate over whether the state was violating the ada by not requiring schools to wear masks. the news continues with "cuomo prime time." the kyle rittenhouse trial took a major turn today. the 18-year-old who killed two, injured a third with a semi-automatic rifle during a riot in kenosha, wisconsin, took the stand in his own defense. that is a very rare choice. and he put on one hell of a show. however, he was almost upstaged by the sideshow of the judge fighting with the prosecutor. this thing came close to a mistrial today, with t

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