tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN November 9, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PST
from pre-pandemic levels it's up 325% from october 2019. this is according to adobe analytics which says one out of every 50 pages you view online right now shows unavailable items. hardest-hit products, electronics, jewelry, and clothing. president biden speaking with the ceos of walmart, target, ups, and fedex today. vowing to speed up deliveries and lower prices. we'll see what happens. thanks for joining us. anderson starts now. good evening. thanks for joining us. ask yourself this question tonight. what do you suppose would happen if you went into work one day after posting a video depicting yourself murdering a co-worker and brandishing a sword at the company ceo? now, most of us know the answer, we'd be fired. maybe, reported to the authorities. possibly, even arrested, prosecuted. sadly, too many workplaces have seen too many acts of deadly violence to do otherwise, except apparently this one.
you are looking at it. and it's not like it hasn't been the focal point of rage and r violence before. it's not like the men and women who serve here haven't just had a very recent lesson in what happens when conspiracy theories and outright threats go unanswered. yet, not only is one of the two parties here with rare exception singularly uninterested in even looking into such things. we know tonight it doesn't matter if the bad act in question comes from someone they actually work with. arizona congressman paul gosar is his name. here is just a brief portion -- the only one we will show -- of the anime he recently posted on twitter and instagram depicting him killing congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez with a sword, and then swinging two swords at president biden. ♪
>> so that's part of it. the congressman's animated fantasy of murdering a fellow member of congress and menacing the president and this is the congressman's sister jennifer talking about her brother. >> this is something that i have to openly wonder. does he have to act on it himself before we believe that he is -- he is a sociopath. where is the accountability? >> as to her question, the white house condemned the video. house speaker pelosi said athletes of violence against members of congress and the president of the united states must not be tolerated. and kevin mccarthy. guess what he said. nothing. we invited him on the program as well but heard nothing back. congressman gosar, who we also invited on tonight, tweeted out a cartoon response earlier today. the message saying it's a cartoon, relax. then later, he put out a statement which says in part that the anime quote depicts the symbolic nature of a battle between lawful and unlawful
policies and in no way intended to be a targeted attack against representative cortez or mr. biden which doesn't even make sense because that is what it is. it's a targeted attack. it's not interpretation. yes, it's an anime. perhaps, the richest sentence, though, in this one quoting again a chaotic and lawless wind is blowing across our land. he's not wrong about that one. just listen to a pair of hate-filled voicemails. two of many that michigan republican congressman fred upton has been getting recently. now, before you do, just consider this. they are not about abortion or race or immigration or mask wearing or schools or vaccine mandates or anything really controversial. the outpouring we're going to play, the vitriol is about his vote on a bipartisan bill on infrastructure. >> [ bleep ] traitor. that's what you are. you are a [ bleep ] traitor. i hope you die.
i hope everybody in your [ bleep ] dies. you piece of [ bleep ]. you're stupider than he is. he can't even complete a [ bleep ] sentence you dumb [ bleep ] traitor. piece of [ bleep ]. [ bleep ]. piece of trash. hope you die. hope your family dies. hope everybody in your [ bleep ] staff dies. you piece of [ bleep ] [ bleep ]. traitor! >> just to say your days are numbered. you are a dumb [ bleep ]. >> so, those threats which, again, we should point out are about roads and bridges and a bill that, by the way, senate minority leader mitch mcconnell, the top-senate republican, is now crisscrossing his state boasting about. so that's where we are today. that's where the crazy is, too. the threats, by the way, follow the postings online of another member of congress, marjorie taylor greene. she tweeted out the names of the republican house members who voted for the bipartisan infrastructure bill. writing, quote, these are the 13 republicans who handed over their voting cards to nancy pelosi to pass joe biden's communist takeover of america via so-called infrastructure.
in a separate tweet, which we are not showing you, she posted their phone numbers. now, the congresswoman, as you know, a big believer in the lie or big lie or at least she claims to be. she's compared mask mandates to the nazi persecution of jews and the holocaust. she's flirted with the fraud qanon. she is not the one facing discipline, though, from her party for exposing fellow republicans to hate and perhaps even to harm. and congressman gosar isn't even being mildly reprimanded by his party leadership for his threats. instead, to read from a headline in today's "washington post" and i quote, gop floats punishment for its 13 apostapostates. 19 snenate republicans includin mitch mcconnell also support it. those are the ones the republicans are going after. the piece goes on to report some party members want to strip these 13 republicans of committee assignments and quotes former-trump chief of staff mark
meadows today endorsing the notion. same mark meadows who of course has been served with a psubpoen to testify about what he knew about the coup attempt. we will have more on that story, shortly, because ten more of those dropped late today. but if you are wondering why it's suddenly a sin to support roads and bridges in your district but no big deal to post unhinged murder fantasy videos about co-workers and a sitting president, you might want to at least acknowledge the role his old boss is playing in the current climate. something congresswoman liz cheney addressed head on this afternoon. >> we are also confronting a domestic threat that we have never faced before. a former president who is attempting to unravel the foundations of our constitutional republic. aided by political leaders who have made themselves willing hostages to this dangerous and irrational man. >> so, she, as you know, is also being targeted with hate mail and threats and political retribution along with fellow
republican adam kinzinger. their offense, of course, is wanting to get to the bottom of what happened on january 6th. that's it. that, too, is now consider add sin in the gop which only enables more misbehavior, more winking and nodding and violent threats, and ultimately sets the stage potentially for more violent eruptions like we saw at the capitol. joining us now, "new york times" foreign affairs columnist, tom friedman. he is the author of among many other best sellers, why we need a green revolution and how it can renew america. so, tom, i don't even know where to begin really. but, you know, is there no depth too low for -- i mean, first of all, paul -- you know, congressman gosar is certainly in the pantheon of sort of pathetic figures who have served in -- in congress. um, but is there no depth too low? >> well, you know, i think depth is a good word, anderson, because i think we're standing, as a country and as a people, on a false bottom. what -- what -- what these
incidents and the lack of response to them by the republican leadership tell us is something -- it's -- it's very worrying. we -- we're living in a fool's paradise right now. if this party is able to retake the house, the senate, and national power, we are in a very, very dangerous situation. it could be the end of our ability to legitimately transfer power, which is really the crown jewel of this country. we're -- we're standing on a false bottom. we can crash through this anytime. that's what these incidents tell me. >> so, as bad as people may feel now or think, wow, can't get much worse than this. you are saying it absolutely can? >> oh, yeah. um, because, you know, we've seen what donald trump tried to do when he was in power. we've seen the fact that he was ready to use, as liz cheney pointed out, you know, unconstitutional means to stay in power. like -- like some tin-pot dictator and there is absolutely no reason to believe if they gain power again, that they wouldn't use it in ways to
maintain themselves in office. and that's what's really scary to me. and that's why, by the way, democrats have to be on their absolute a-game to make sure that does not happen. >> which exactly -- i mean, it's not a great -- the idea the democrats have to be on their a-game, we haven't seen necessarily a lot of their a-game of late. you know, the last time you were on you were talking about what you had witnessed in beirut when beirut fell -- fell apart during the civil war there. and -- and it really stuck in my mind because one of the things you said -- and i am paraphrasing you and i apologize if i get it wrong -- but that politicians in beirut essentially were just kind of hammering away for political gain, here or there, wherever they could. theying i could just hammer away at this state and it will kind of work itself out in the future and that doesn't happen. that didn't happen. >> yeah, that's exactly the point and something i have been trying to argue for a long time which is what -- what i saw in beirut was one politician after another cheating, lying, undermining the system.
anything to gain or hold power. thinking once i'm in, you know, then i might behave a little bit better. well, when people across the spectrum do that year after year, what ultimately happens is that the -- the whole foundation of the system erodes and then it completely falls apart, which is basically what happened in lebanon. and, anderson, once it goes, it's impossible to get it back. and that's what terrifies me about our country right now. that, if it goes here, it -- who -- who do we turn to? you know, in lebanon, you know what they did, anderson? actually, when macron -- the president of france came to visit -- 50,000 lebanese handed him a petition saying please recolonize us. please recolonize us. are we going to ask great britain to do that? there -- there's no one going to come to our rescue except us. we are the only people we're waiting for and that's why we have to be absolutely at the top of our game. we cannot play with these crown jewels and that is what he we are doing. we are juggling the crown jewels. >> and yet, we are also now in a
time and i just saw your column i think it posted just tonight about your experiences, what you saw in glasgow at the -- the climate change summit. you -- you -- you took part in some panels there, i understand. in an age where we need cooperation -- well, i don't know about more than ever before but certainly on a global scale and cooperation for a transformation in the economy of the united states to kind of try to advance, um, you know, more -- just, you know, of the electrical grid. to remake the electrical grid. to do all the things that need to be done in order for us to continue to, you know, make progress in the world. how do you do that when we can't even get together on these simple things? >> well, that's why infrastructure -- i mean, it's so important. go back to eisenhower. um, infrastructure is your launchpad. it's the launchpad on which, you know, you build all these other tools and technologies to enable your people to realize their full potential. there is no republican
infrastructure. no democratic infrastructure. and i think that's what's just so important to keep in mind. you know, this is something -- for me, infrastructure, anderson, is part of a whole nexus of issues that i would call sacred ground. common ground. a shared space. that we should all agree on. it should never be politicized. and the scariest thing that's happening in the country today is that everything is becoming politics. a mask is becoming politics. a vaccine is becoming politics. infrastructure, road, highways, broadband, are becoming politics. these aren't politics. these are the sacred, common ground upon which we all want to get together to do the right thing and when you make everything politics, it is the end of politics. when you persecute members of your party for voting for an infrastructure bill? wow. you -- you need to go see a doctor. >> so, what happened? i mean, so what is -- how does one contribute to, you know, things getting better, as
opposed to just, you know, contributing to making it worse? >> yeah. well, the -- the -- in -- in this case, the -- the -- obviously, the republican party has got to go through some kind of tlransformation. i think it will only happen if they lose power one or two more times and -- and when that happens, people will stand up and say this is not the road to go down. maybe, virginia was the election there was a halfway step to that. even though a republican won, it was somebody who didn't really run as a trumper. but, um, i don't see any other way. anderson, i'm more worried about this country than i have ever been in my life. i am not convinced we are going to be able to legitimately transfer power in the next election. and i don't think people realize what a code-red situation that is. and if you are contributing to the republican party, if you are -- if you're voting for republicans, i have no problem with that but you have got to make sure that this kind of big-lie politics at a time when the country needs such big ideas, i guarantee you one
thing. i can guarantee you this, absolutely, tonight. that no one in the -- in the chinese people's assembly is talking about space lasers. is tweeting out, you know, crazy attacks on -- on their other leaders. the world is a serious place. we have to be on our a-game if we want our people to realize their full potential and we're just messing around. messing around making everything politics and the point i made in my column tonight about glasgow is that, you know, we got climate change barreling down on us. but sitting there in glasgow thinking to myself, anderson, how are we going to rise, collectively, to the challenge of climate change when we can't even get people to put on a mask and get vaccinated against a pandemic which is -- which is a tiny fastball that mother nature is throwing at us, compared to what climate change would be and with climate change, there is no vaccine. how are we going to do that? >> tom friedman, i appreciate you being with us, tom, thank you.
>> always. >> coming up next, we have breaking news in the january 6th investigation. ten more subpoenas, including some of the closest -- some of those closest to the former president during the insurrection. we will be joined by robert costa, co-author of the recent account of those moments in aptly titled "peril." later, testimony in the kyle rittenhouse homicide trial. we will be right back. people everywhere living with type 2 diabetes are waking up to what's possible with rybelsus®. ♪ you are my sunshine ♪ ♪ my only sunshine... ♪ rybelsus® works differently than any other diabetes pill to lower blood sugar in all 3 of these ways... increases insulin when you need it... decreases sugar... and slows food. the majority of people taking rybelsus® lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than 7. people taking rybelsus® lost up to 8 pounds.
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and eight others including some lesser-known people who played key roles in their attempt to overturn a free and fair election. joining us now, robert costa co-author with bob woodward of the best-seller "peril." good to have you on. if you look at the ten latest subpoenas issued today, what do they tell you about -- or do they tell you anything about the direction of the january 6th committee, where they are heading in the investigation? >> number one, anderson, they are casting a wide net. they are -- they are bringing up names that are well known, like stephen miller, general kellogg, but also some lower-level trump white house aides trying to see if any of these people will cooperate, publicly testify, start to share documents. this committee has been trying to ramp up its efforts in recent weeks but they still have a lot of work to do to really get answers. and two, they are looking at the president's activity -- the sitting president at the time -- trump. what he did on the morning of january 6th before the rally and after the rally. that's a focus of this latest batch of subpoenas. >> keith kellogg, who you mentioned, was then-vice president pence's national security adviser, was with
then -- the then-president trump for much of the day on january 6th. based on your reporting, what could kellogg have been privy to from that day? >> we know he was in the oval office. as trump is updated about pence, about the insurrection on capitol hill, he is a witness who has firsthand knowledge of what happens. you see the committee with these subpoenas, trying to get people who are firsthand participants in events, as well as what we call satellite witnesses. those who had tangential roles in that day. >> what about john mcentee? i mean, he was the president's body man. a lot of people don't know his name but he was the president's body man, who then became the director of presidential personnel office which is extraordinary. um, how much influence did he have over the president? >> enormous influence. a former-college football player who became close to trump, jonathan carl has a strong piece in the atlantic about mcentee tonight. someone who is a total loyalist. in the final days, trump wanted
only loyalists around him. he was an enforcer on everything from the policy of afghanistan withdrawal to who would be left in the white house n those final days. all of these people tonight are going to try and wait and see if they can have executive privilege protected for trump. but there are a lot of cracks in that executive privilege argument, anderson. so many of these participants like john eastman have talked publicly at length about their -- their efforts in -- in these events. so if they can talk publicly to reporters and podcasts, why can't they talk to the committee? >> i mean, the -- you know, you said january 6th committee is -- is casting a wide net. is that a sign, though, of desperation? >> it might be. as a reporter, it's not for me to weigh in on whether it's desperation but they certainly need someone to cooperate in a significant way. not just fighting them in the court. maybe, providing a little bit here or there. think back to watergate. woodward and i often talk about john dean's testimony during watergate. that cracked it open.
broke it open because he outlined a criminal conspiracy inside of the white house. will some of these names tonight that we know and many we don't really know that well, will they come forward? or will they be like steve bannon and fight it all the way and -- and maybe even have criminal contempt charges? >> do you think there are others who might have relevant information who haven't yet been subpoenaed? >> oh, there were many people in the white house on the night of january 5th. some of them, talking to people in the willard hotel as we have outlined in the book and others have reported on. but many -- many people in the white house that night. it's interesting, you see the committee really going deep on mark meadows, chief of staff, his network, his aides and they still have a lot to piece together around rudy giuliani and steve bannon. some of these outside allies who have connections to fringe groups. what was their involvement in those crucial hours january 2nd through january 6th? >> yeah. robert costa, appreciate it as always. thank you so much. again, in light of the conversation our lead story as well, the consequence of the big election lie coupled with a kind of permissive environment for
violence. it's not academic. randi kaye spoke with some election officials who now find themselves under direct threat and fearing what might come next. >> you're a traitor. perhaps, cuts and bullets will soon arrive. provides my address. provides my kids' names. rino stole election. we steal lives. >> reporter: the death threat came in the form of a text message sent to al schmidt's personal cell phone. he is the philadelphia city commissioner and for the last decade or so, he's run the elections in his city. >> i don't think there is a single election official across the country that ever took death threats into account as part of our job description. >> reporter: for schmidt, it turned ugly after donald trump tweeted about him calling him a rino, republican in name only. and falsely claiming schmidt refused to look at corruption and dishonesty in the 2020 election. >> do you think the former president put you and your family in danger? >> oh, absolutely.
within 24 hours, it began. >> reporter: trump tweeted about schmidt on november 11th last year. the following morning, he got his first death threat via text. that same day, a few hours later, his wife received a threatening e-mail. >> your husband should tell the truth or your three kids -- names them -- will be fatally shot. >> reporter: it got so bad, schmidt says he notified the police and the fbi who put them under 24-hour protection. his family even moved from their home since one e-mail threat linked to images of his house. >> you ever called this domestic terrorism. how so? >> well, the point of the threats is to terrorize and it's to coerce. it's sort of surreal to experience that level of hatred when all you're doing is counting votes. >> reporter: well but, others --
others believe that you were stealing votes, switching votes, throwing ballots out. i mean, that -- that's what people were made to believe. i mean, those were the false claims out there. >> right. and -- and they are deranged by those false claims. >> reporter: and schmidt is hardly the only election official dealing with threats on the job. in fairfax county, virginia, the general registrar and director of elections told us he is being harassed, too. >> you are stealing the election, again. you're -- auyou're a lennonist, stalinist, commy. you know, people like you have destroyed america. >> reporter: scott says he's received threatening phone calls and messages on social media. many, accusing him of corruption, dishonesty, and doubting his election integrity. he says he's notified local and federal authorities. >> it is constant. it's always on your mind. >> you are always looking over your shoulder? >> always looking. yeah. i -- always looking to see if anyone's following me.
i take different routes. you know, to and from work and home. >> reporter: he isn't going to let the threats drive him away from a job. but back in philadelphia, commissioner al schmidt has had enough. he decided before the 2020 election he wouldn't run again. but the threats sealed the deal. >> if you don't run again, if others don't run again and so many election workers leave their position, are you concerned about who will replace you? >> yeah. i think -- i think the concern that these same officials are replaced by people who don't want to count voters' votes. who want to discredit the results of the elections that they, themselves, are running. >> reporter: randi kaye, cnn, philadelphia. still ahead tonight. the prosecution rests their case in the trial of kyle rittenhouse. their final witness suggesting that one of his victims did not pose a threat. the latest from kenosha, next. so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback?
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wisconsin, in august of 2020. omar jimenez joins us now from ken kenosha with the latest. >> reporter: with one phase of the rittenhouse trial over, the next phase moves forward as the defense begins its case. start being those who were with rittenhouse on august 25th, 2020, before and after his shootings that night following heavy protests in kenosha, wisconsin. >> he repeats i just shot someone, over and over. and i believe at some point, he did say he had to shoot someone. i tell him to walk outside and turn himself in. he had said i had to, i had to shoot someone. >> reporter: the next witness said rittenhouse even personally reflected on what had just happened. >> do you recall him saying anything? >> pulling it back really hard and just his comment was, my god, my life might be over. >> did kyle respond to anything that was said? >> yes. >> what was that? >> that was, that he had to. >> reporter: it was in these moments that kyle rittenhouse shot and killed joseph rosenbaum -- the first of two killed that night.
and it was those moments that were a large focus of the end of the prosecution's case. rosenbaum was shot four times. once in the left thigh, once in the hand, and suffered a graze wound to his head. and then, he was shot in the back. the lethal shot. >> gunshot wound is the one that would cause death as a result of the injuries to the lungs and the liver with the hemorrhage and the injury to the organs, themselves. >> reporter: the doctor's testimony came with graphic pictures, especially of the gunshot wounds to the head and back of rosenbaum. all the while, rittenhouse appeared to be visibly shaken. at times, averting his eyes. similar to what many jurors were doing, as well. prosecutors focused on when rittenhouse fired the four gunshots at rosenbaum and from what position. >> the first gunshots are while mr. rosenbaum is facing mr. rittenhouse? >> yes. >> and you said that at least one of those was intermediate out to four feet away? >> yes. >> reporter: then, came the
graze wound to the head and the shot to the back. >> and is it your opinion to a reasonable degree of medical certainty that the back-to-front shots to the head and then the kill shot to the back would have been while he was falling or perpendicular to the ground? >> the -- the only way that the trajectories of the gunshot wounds to the right side of the head and the back make sense is if he is more horizontal to the ground and that is occurring, um, at the time that the last-two gunshot wounds are heard on the video. >> reporter: the defense wanted to underscore how fast this deadly interaction occurred. >> the fourth shot is 7600ths of a second after that. that is how fast the four shots were fired out of my client's gun and he is -- goes from the furthest four feet to touching the gun, correct? >> yes. >> so, if i was charging like a bull and diving, that would be consistent? >> it would be.
>> reporter: the rifle used by rittenhouse that day was displayed in court, both by the prosecution and the defense, to give jurors a better idea of the gun's positioning as this unfolded. but prosecutors went back to the first two shots, implying any diving or falling motion from the first shot to the thigh up through the hip wasn't voluntary. >> the injuries you noted -- they'd also be consistent with falling after being struck in the hip? >> yes. >> what can you tell us about the one charge that was dismissed? >> reporter: yeah, anderson. so right as the prosecution was resting its case, the judge dismissed charge number seven against kyle rittenhouse. that is a curfew citation charge. basically, saying that prosecutors did not present enough evidence to show that there was actually a curfew in place as this was unfolding back in august of 2020. and that the testimony of the kenosha police officer simply saying there was one wasn't enough. now, of course, rittenhouse still faces five felony charges
that include homicide and reckless endangerment, along with the misdemeanor of being a minor with a gun. he, of course, has pleaded not guilty to all of those as we head into day seven of testimony in this trial. day two for the defense. anderson. >> omar jimenez, appreciate it. thank you. there is dramatic video showing a young man scaling a ladder at the astroworld festival when the deadly chaos was going on. repeatedly, shouting stop the show. we'll talk to him tonight. he will join us and tell us what it was like to be in that crowd, and to try to have -- and to have his cries to stop the show ignored.
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a role in some of the deaths or injuries. also tonight, we are learning more about what it was like in the crowd during that deadly crush. and we are seeing for the first time the desperate attempts by some concertgoers to get travis scott to stop the show. man you just saw in the white t-shirt in that video repeatedly shouting stop the show was 18-year-old aden cruz. eight people ended up dying. aden joins us now. aden, thank you so much for being with us. um, first of all, how are you doing? just having some perspective now on what you went through. >> um, i'm doing okay. i have already seeked help for my mental health and it's just -- it's been a lot lately. >> yeah. >> lot on my mind. >> so i understand that you and
your girlfriend purposely kind of held back in -- in the kind of the back of the general-admission area, which is where a lot of the crush ended up being. when did you know, though, that something was -- was going wrong? >> uh, like the second it started. our bodies got pushed up against other people's from behind. and, um, someone behind us was panicking, screaming, and my girlfriend looked at me and i tried to keep a straight face. and i knew that this wasn't normal and i couldn't hold it anymore, and then i was screaming for help, as well. >> so, you -- you were intentionally at the back because i know -- i read that -- that you had been concerned that there had been problems in the past at concerts, and people being aggressive out front with travis scott. but even though you were in the back, more people were rushing into the general-admission area. so even in the back, you were getting -- started to get crushed from behind? >> yes, that's correct.
in the past, i have gone to festivals and i know that the ragers are the people who like to, you know, do mosh pits is usually in the front. i knew i was with my girlfriend and our friends and we had girls with us, too. so i thought if we were in the back, we could enjoy the show with some space because initially before the show, i was actually able to like move my arms around without actually hitting anyone. and the second the show started after the countdown, it just -- no space at all. um, just -- just people suffocating because of how tight they were. >> and i understand a friend of -- of both of you and your girlfriend died during this, brianna rodriguez. what did you see happen to her? >> so, me and her -- the last thing i saw was me and her were around this circle of people who had fallen behind us. and we were, like, the next layer to basically fall in.
and as the ripple effects of the crowds going forward and backward, um, we were pushed onto our backs. and as that happened, people began to fall on top of us and cause it to be harder to get air and, um, just so much weight on both of us. and as well as a friend named x who was with her right next to her fell as well on his back and people were on top of us and it was -- it was really scary. >> you know, i -- having never been in a crush situation like that, where i have actually fallen, i -- it's hard to even imagine the idea that you can't catch your breath in a crowd like that. but -- but that's how it felt? >> yeah. i just remember people on my legs, on my -- on my stomach, on my face. i mean it was pitch dark. i don't know what exactly was on top of me. it all happened so fast and i just remember as i was falling back, i just saw brie yelling
and i -- i could see her hair but i -- i couldn't see her face because a bunch of people were on top of us and on top of me. like, people were covering my face so i couldn't see. and it's just -- it's something i really can't forget about. >> i mean, i'm so sorry for -- for your -- the loss of -- of your friends. watching the video of when you tried to talk to the cameraman to -- to maybe get him to send a message to try to stop the concert. i mean, first of all, you know, to try to do something like that is incredibly brave. i understand people were like yelling at you, angry at you for -- for even doing that. not perhaps understanding what was going on. did you -- was there -- was there any chance you -- i mean, did you think you might be able to get somebody to stop it? >> um, honestly, it was -- it was just instinctual. i just thought maybe the
cameraman would have some type of like signaling -- signaling between someone who could tell travis scott. maybe, he could stop working or maybe -- i don't know -- he could send in a cue like this is -- this is getting bad back here or something. but i mean, it's very possible that that was never even a practice that they had before. the festival even began and i just feel like there was never considered a code red. there wasn't a -- a limit to where this is bad and this is where if you are doing your job, this is where you need to stop working and let me know. >> yeah. well, aden, yeah. i'm so glad you're -- you're -- you're -- you were able to get out and your girlfriend, as well. and i am so sorry for your losses and all those who are suffering in this. um, thank you so much for talking to us. >> thank you. and can i -- >> yeah. what? >> i just want to clarify one thing. the cameraman. i have seen that he's got --
getting -- gotten a lot of hate and death threats and i just don't want that. um, i don't think he had the authority, like, how people want to make him seem like he had. but he was just the person i went to at first, and nobody deserves to die. no one deserves to get those messages. so, i just want to have those people stop doing that and remember that we're all human. >> aden, you are a really good person. i appreciate you saying that and i'm sure he does, as well, and his family. so thank you. >> thank you. coming up. given the kind of hostilities we have been seeing, whether in voicemails left for members of congress as you heard at the top of the hour. don't you wish more people would listen to aden and the way he sees things? we are all just human. how can a country that feels so divided and so on edge learn how to step back from the brink? some answers perhaps from a new book when we return.
that you heard at the top of the program to the capitol insurrection, each headline invites the question, how can we stop the anger and maybe normalize political discourse in our country? kirsten powers offers some advice how in her new book, saving grace, speak your truth, stay centered, and learn to coexist with people who drive you nuts. it has an important message. we spoke recently. >> congratulations on the book. i think it's such an important book, and kind of the perfect, really the perfect time for a book like this. i feel like a lot of us need this book. i certainly need it. you write about how the toxicity of our current political environment was actually directly affecting your mental health, which i think certainly a lot of people no matter what side of the political aisle you're on, it's been a long couple years. >> yes. >> can you tell us about the moment you decided something had
to give? >> yeah, yeah. well, i think 2016 obviously was a big turning point for a lot of people. and for me, i knew something was off, but for me, it was towards the end of 2018, where i think it just finally, i hit a wall. and i just realized this is not sustainable. the sort of sound track of doom in my head, the way i'm thinking about other people, the way i'm demonizing other people in my head, sometimes the way i was behaving, especially online, was not really aligned with my values. it wasn't sustainable. and so i realized at that moment that i had to do something different. i was hearing this from people all around me. people were saying i can't go on like this. you mentioned mental health, i was struggling with anxiety, and i mean clinical anxiety. not that i was worrying a little bit. i was struggling with chronic fatigue. it was affecting me physically in all sorts of ways. i think a lot of people were having that experience.
>> so in your book, you talk about the concept of grace and how it's often deeply misunderstood and even weaponized by some. can you explain what you mean by that, and what -- how that relates to what you decided to kind of do? >> yeah, because i think a lot of people even watching right now might go, whoa, grace, really? at a time like this? and that's because a lot of times grace has been weaponized and misrepresented as meaning just let people get away with things. don't hold people accountable. don't stand up for marginalized people, don't say things that are true, but none of those things are grace. i used the christian paradigm, though the book is accessible to anybody. i have been told that by people of all faiths and no faiths, but i think the christian paradigm is a nice paradigm because it means unmerited favor. so what that means is the other person doesn't have to do anything in order to have grace from you. they just get it because they're part of humanity.
if you're a believer, you might say because i see the divine spark in them. if you're not, you might say i see you as a whole person that is more than the thing you're doing. but i think the thing that was most fascinating to me was learning that grace was actually for me, it was the thing that kept me from going down this road of demonization and basically taking on all of this stuff that was making me so miserable. >> in terms of practicing grace, from a, like a, if somebody wants to practice it, how can you practice it? >> i practice it by first of all just assenting to that idea, that i'm going to step back and remember that this person is more than the thing that they're saying or doing. >> my mom used to repeat this saying by this guy mcclairen who said be kind because everybody you meet is fighting a great battle, which i try to live by. it's not quite -- it's got hints of what you're talking about, i think. >> well, i actually cite that in the book, i think that is sort
of a graceful way to think about people, to remember that people are doing the best they can with the tools that they have. one of the things i talk about, i have a whole chapter on humility, of developing humility, of getting real with the fact that we're not quite as perfect as we think we are, that put in the same circumstances, another person, who is say we wouldn't be doing the same thing. >> that i completely believe in. the book is saving grace, i really started it, i'm really -- i think it's -- i just click with it. i think it's so powerful. kirsten powers, thank you. >> thank you so much. >> saving grace. >> we'll be right back. bipolar depression. it made me feel like i was trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of people living with bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression
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