tv CNN Newsroom With Poppy Harlow and Jim Sciutto CNN November 4, 2021 7:00am-8:00am PDT
very good thursday morning to you. i'm jim sciutto. >> i'm erica hill. an hour from now, a crucial hearing in former president donald trump's fight to keep secret hundreds of white house documented related ed to januar 6th. his legal team is claiming executive privilege arguing congress does not have the power to investigate him as a former president. >> the house select committee investigating the insurrection wants to see more than 700 pages of handwritten notes, draft documentaries, daily logs from trump's top advisers related to january 6th. trump has until next friday to obtain a court order blocking that request. let's begin with justice correspondent evan perez. the judge hearing this case has strongly criticized the january 6th insurrection, handled out prison time to some convicted rioters. does that give us a sense of where the judge will stand on the president's claims? >> yeah. look, i think it does give us a sense of how she views the january 6th attack, the
extraordinary nature of it, and it will, i think, play into her decisionmaking. but, look, whatever she decides and whatever the courts decide is going to have tremendous consequences not only for the former president and the current president but future presidents. you know, the former president is making a very interesting argument here. i'll read you a part of what his legal briefs say. it says the members of this committee have already concluded that the former president is responsible no matter what the evidence says. they can legislate accordingly or they must explain why each item requested would be material to any decision they intend to make. over 1,500, 1,600 documents are at issue here. they're arguing over 700, more than 700 of these documents, and they include call logs, notes from close advisers including mark meadows, lawyers inside the white house who took notes and
wrote memos in those key days as the president, the former president was trying to overturn the november elections. and what trump is arguing is that these are the types of things from his close advisers that the executive privilege is intended to protect. of course, we only have one president at time, and president biden has decided because of the extraordinary nature of what happened on january 6th, he is waiving that privilege. we'll see where the judges land on this. >> thank you. joining us to discuss, robber mueller's former special assistant at the justice department, michael gel den. good to see you. picking up where evan left off, we have heard from this judge in very strong language when it comes to january 6th. that is expected to play into decisionmaking here, evan said.
but how much, though? what do you expect her to say specifically in terms of these claims that the former president's attorneys face? >> i think she'll agree with the white house counsel who said executive privilege should not shield the congress' right to know about this extraordinary e event on january 6th. i think philosophically she agrees with the white house counsel's office that these are extraordinary events that require a remedy. now, the remedy that the president seeks is a preliminary injunction, and that's a very high burden for him to overcome, i think. >> so you saw the lawyers' statement there, the former president's lawyers saying in effect you have to prove that each of these requests, demands is material to the investigation. so it's a small picture here. to a layman, they seem material because it gets to what the president's actions were, communications that day and leading up to it. from a legal perspective, are they material? >> there are two things here, jim. first is, of course, that under
the presidential records act the sitting president gets to determine what is executive privilege. the former president has right to be heard, but the authority rests with the existing president and he's said executive privilege does not apply in this case. that should be outcome determinative of the case. the additional thing is this is a preliminary injunction. the burden is on trump to prove that he's likely to succeed on the merits, that it's in the public interest to refuse to give these documents to congress. i don't think he can meet the burden of a preliminary injunction. his argument that these are executive privilege documents that should be denied congress i think fail on multiple fronts. >> there's not only a lot of attention being paid to this, there's lot riding on this decision and what could happen next. this judge has moved fairly
quickly, especially based on what we've seen during the trump administration with this tactic of delaying worked well for the former president. we're told we could get a ruling fairly quickly. that being said, there could be an appeal. so, is this delay tactic essentially still working for the former president? >> well, we'll see. documents that are at issue are to be released to congress by the national archives on 12th. so the judge has that deadline to deal with, and she should rule before the november 12th release date one way or the other. if she says that trump has failed to meet his burden of proving that preliminary injunction is warranted in this case, then trump, of course, has the right to appeal. but the appellate court can say we're not going to deny congress' access while you appeal this or they can, you know, continue the litigation and delay the release of the information.
i just can't imagine that under the constitutional structure that we have where congress and the sitting executive agree that there's no separation of powers, that the white house says executive privilege doesn't apply, that these documents don't get released sooner than later. >> big picture, it just strikes me that all these arguments, all these delays we've been dealing with for years in multiple investigations, and it doesn't seem that at least with the former president there are any legal consequences. i wonlder in your experience, going back to watergate, have we found that the system can't really respond to or police this kind of insider threat? >> well, it does, i think, jim, respond to this type of insider threat. it just does so very slowly. so our desire to have an immediate resolution so that congress can proceed with the hearing before 2020 and a possible change of power in the
house of representatives is what's so frustrating. you just want this to be decided, heard, and we can move on as a country. because the courts move is slowly, you get that sense that you just articulated, which is that the system doesn't work well enough under these circumstances, and maybe it doesn't. >> michael, always appreciate your insight. thank you. senate republicans who went to see former president donald trump speak at the stop the steal rally on january 6th have just been elected to local offices. >> we're joined with more. what do we know about these candidates? >> okay, erica, let me start at the top and say there's a difference between attending the january 6th stop the steal rally and invading the capitol. none of these people i'm going to run through are accused of invading the capitol. they were all at the stop the steal rally. we know about glen youngkin and what a big deal that was
nationally, but down ballot interesting things happened. larocque and dwyer were both incumbent. i want to start with marine march. she won an open seat in the house of delegates. she is an owner of barbecue restaurant down in the area that she represents now, and she talked about her candidacy. let's play that and come back. >> they canceled my trip to see my president and they called me names i'm sure not to forget. it's got me to thinking of possibly running and using my voice for political pushing and shoving. >> i don't remember that being in a dr. seuss rhyme. regardless, she's going to represent in the statehouse for virginia. now, let's go to dave larocque. he's been in office since 2014. yes. next screen, thank you. this is him talking about
january 6th. it's highly likely that the people were paid and sent in to protest. that isn't true. this is a very common talking point around people who attended the rally. ron johnson has said this from wisconsin, that somehow this was paid for by antifa. we know that's not the case. these were supporters of donald trump. the other guy, mr. maguire, i think we have something from him. here's john maguire, again, an incumbent re-elected to the statehouse in virginia. here's him with -- by the way, john maguire is not that short. glen youngkin is 6'7". he's huge. congratulations to my good friend. incredible win. john maguire said he left the january 6th rally before anything else happened. he was unaware that people had gone into the capitol until he got home. now, there is a picture that was circulated by his democratic opponent of him in which he is seen next to people in
paramilitary gear near the capitol, but again, no proof he entered the capitol. he himself said i didn't even know it was happening. that's virginia. there are a lot of other elections. let's go to the next screen because there were a bunch of other people elected. natalie elected in napa, idaho, not ohio. augsburger in connecticut, my home state. he was elected to a school board. there were eight openings for -- nine openings for eight seats. so he came in -- he beat one person out. this is the one that's interesting, matthew lynch in massachusetts, former teacher resigned in february when it became clear that he was going to be -- that he was at the rally, pictures of him emerged. he resigns, and he has told people that the fbi has contacted him not once but twice over what happened on january 6th and where he was. now, again, he has not said he was in the capitol, we don't
know that he was, but he himself has said the fbi's contacted him twice. so this is not new. there's going to be more of this. there's going to be more of these people elected. for many people in the republican party, january 6th was not a bad day, it was a good day, unfortunately, for democracy. back to you guys. >> raising the question are they running on that. chris thanks very much. join jake tap erp for a new cnn special report tomorrow night, "trumping democracy: an american coup." begins at 9:00 eastern time. new this morning, some health care workers and others have until january 4th to be fundamentally vaccinated after the biden administration moved its vaccine mandate start date. >> john harwood joins us with more. was this move because of concerns about staffing shortages, particularly before christmas? >> reporter: businesses made that argument. the supply chain problems that the economy has been
experiencing would be exacerbated by this. the white house says, in fact, this was about making it smoother for businesses and contractors to implement them. but in any case, more than 100 million american workers are going to be covered by these new regulations. th the osha regulations apply to employers with 100 or more workers. it does not have a fixed vaccine requirement. if people decline to get vaccinated, there is a testing option. that is not the case for the 17 million workers who interact with medicare and medicaid, so health care workers, the argument it is more urgent for those people to get vaccinated and, therefore, it has to be a hard requirement. make no mistake, we've been talking about the results of the virginia, new jersey elections, biden's poor approval rating. the white house understands that job one is getting those vaccination rates up, getting
the covid pandemic in the rear-view mirror, and that is the key to getting the economy back on track, getting the jobs that you were discussing a few minutes ago, get the job growth back on track back to what had been expected, and that, they believe, is the key to changing the political environment as democrats look to 2022 and those midterm elections and their attempt to keep power in the congress as well as the white house. >> john harwood, appreciate it. thank you. up next, we are live on capitol hill. democrats right now huddling to decide whether they have the volts to finalize president biden's major legislation today. speaker pelosi is expected to speak later this hour. plus, jury selection that made even the judge pause. a nearly all white jury deciding the fate of three men charged with killing ahmaud ashery.
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weeks of paid family and medical leave back into the broader social spending bill after she pledged for months she would only move forward on a bill that would pass the senate. erica, it seems perhaps the idea is pass it to the senate, strips it out, send something back to the house. we'll see. >> indeed we will. moderate senator joe manchin, who says he doesn't support putting that paid leave back in the spending bill made it very clear once again this morning on cnn where he stands. take a look. >> paid family leave, okay. the democrats in the house are putting it back in bill. >> yeah. >> does that change your bill on it at all? >> john, i don't think it belongs in the bill. that's a piece of legislation that is needed from the standpoint if we do it and do it right. >> joining us now cnn chief congressional correspondent manu raju, who's on capitol hill. so, as we know, house democrats huddling right now with white house officials on getting these
bills to a vote regardless of what we heard from senator manchin this morning. i guess the big question at this point is, is there actually going to be a vote today? >> reporter: that is still unclear. in fact, at this meeting that's happening down the hall from me right now, they have not been told exactly when that vote will be. what they are instead doing is going through the bill section by section, trying to outline some of the last-minute changes that have been made. this is a 2,000-plus-page bill, at least $1.75 trillion, packing all aspects of the american economy. one thing white house officials are indicating in there is they believe it will raise $2.1 trillion in revenue. they argue there might be some deficit reduction as well as part of an effort to raise taxes on a wide range of matters. but there's not been an official score from nonpartisan budget keepers about what exactly this bill will cause to the economy. that is creating some members pause. they want to see that before they agree to vote for the bill,
which is one major reason why there's expectation that the vote will not happen tonight. it could be delayed until tomorrow, potentially over the weekend, maybe into next week. all of that is uncertain at the moment. but it comes at time when there's still uncertainty about whether this bill could ultimately become law. you mentioned the paid leave issue and the change in strategy. pelosi said for months that the only bill she would put on the house floor would be one that could get 50 votes in the u.s. senate. the bill she plans to put on the house floor will not get 50 votes in the u.s. senate. that means there will be further negotiation with joe manchin trying to change the bill potentially with other members who have concerns with the bill, assuming it can get out of the house, and they only have a three-vote margin. then they have to worry about getting it through the senate and back through the house again. so all this leads to major uncertainty whether that bill can go through even as the separate $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill also hangs in the balance and uncertainty about when that will come for a
vote. i can tell you guys there is still frustration among a lot of the more liberal members of this caucus. i just caught up with one from arizona who told me it's, quote, offensive that joe manchin and kyrsten sinema have as much power as they do. guys? >> well, they don't have big majorities. it's a fact, right? just a fact. manu raju, thanks very much. joining us now, cnn political director david chalian and margaret talbot, managing editor of axios. good to see you. as manu laid out for us, this could really stretch this process out even further. david, i'm curious, adding back in paid family leave, which we know is very popular around the country with voters, is that in some way a reaction to what we saw on tuesday night, that this gives them something to run on in 2022, a kitchen table issue to point to and say, look, we said this was important, maybe it didn't make it, but we knew that this is what you wanted? >> reporter: yeah.
i don't know that it's a direct reaction that nancy pelosi watched the returns and then decided to put family leave in. it seems to me she understands that the senate process is going to be elongated and the bill is likely to change in the senate, so why not put a popular thing that the great vast majority of her members actually want in the bill so at least they can go out and say that they voted on the family leave to voters next year in the midterms even if it doesn't actually come into policy. but what is interesting i think, is the timing of when it did come, erica, as you know. the fact that the read on the election, i think, from people across the spectrum of the democratic party, is that democrats are going to need to figure a way to better address american voters where they are right now after this year and a-of pandemic exhaustion, after seeing inflation doing what it's
doing to the economy, and i think then saying let's make this bill more robust with social programs in an interesting take on the day after the election. she clearly believes that is addressing kitchen-table issues. >> to david's point, margaret, my question is, are there democrats you speak with who are saying now, well, maybe all those priorities we put into this budget bill are not the priorities of the voters we need in 2022? things like inflation, where, granted, let's not overstate a president's ability to do anything about inflation, but inflation, crime rates, for instance. is there a reassessment of priorities? >> of course there is, jim. and those are the moderate democrats that are in swing districts who are the most likely to lose heading into next november. so i think there are three take-aways from tuesday's election. one, there is an element of independent swing voters who are concerned that the democratic party is pulling things too far left, right.
that's not universal. there are plenty of democrats excited about that. but there are plenty of independents or moderates not excited about it, reacting against it. the second is lingering frustration that covid is still around, that things are bad, and you blame the power in p-- the party in power. and then you have the inability to get things done. the push to get infrastructure passed to show action, to brand some things, whether it's paid medical leave or whatever it is, some things that all americans want or maybe enough americans want, there's agreement on that. but precisely how to do it and whether to say we're going to lose anyway in november, we might as well get what we can, which is what some democrats are saying and saying let's put the brakes on this stuff to minimize losses, those are two competing priorities. >> we look at where we are now, thursday morning. do you sense a shift in
washington? all this talk yesterday morning, whether you're calling it a five-alarm fire like van jones did, or a wake-up call, i'm wondering where we're at thursday morning versus wednesday morning. does it feel like anything has changed? >> well, listen, i mean, you had this off-year election and it is the biggest electoral read we can get thus far in the biden presidency. and you add that in with the president's low approval ratings right now, you see that republicans had a great night, it's not so much a shift, i think it's just a check on what is the political environment? i think democrats learned from voters, not just from polls, that the political environment is really tough for them right now. and so how they adjust to that going into what historically would be a tough midterm election cycle this next year and how they address that, i do sense there's a conversation and
a concern talking to democrats, again, across the spectrum of the party to make sure that they are adjusting to the reality of where this electorate is now and not just thinking that no long beating trump and the pandemic and the recession going to be enough. >> david and margaret, great to see you. thank you. >> thanks. up next, kyle rittenhouse back in court a day after the jury was forced to watch several graphic videos. you're looking at live pictures now. they were watching several graphic videos of the shootings at a wisconsin protest last year. and another case hinging on video evidence, the trial of three men accused of killing ahmaud arbery, a case that centers on race. 11 of the 12 jurors are white. why is the judge allowing that? that's next. with their insuranc, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really?
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opening statements scheduled to begin tomorrow in the trial of three white men accused of killing 25-year-old black jogger ahmaud arbery. after a nearly all-white jury was picked for the case yesterday, attorneys right now are in court arguing their pretrial motions. >> arbery's mother says it was, quote, devastating to learn the jury would be made up of 11 white member, one black member.
even the judge acknowledged that the defense appeared to be discriminatory in its selection but the trial will proceed as it is. joey jackson joins us. i'm sure you've taken part in jury selection before. as this works, as i understand its, the prosecution and defense has a certain number of objections, some unexplained, that they could use. how could a final result end up so skewed and by the way not reflecting the percentages of the local population? >> it's problematic. good morning to you. listen, the bottom line is that you can exercise as you mentioned challenges. when you're selecting a jury, the prosecution has a certain number of challenges where you can take someone off the jury for any reason or no reason. the defense has the same thing except if the reason is discriminatory. usually it's called a batson challenge, and usually it's engaged in by the defense in order to protect their clients' rights to ensure that the panel, the veneer, is diverse.
in this case, it's a reverse challenge. the prosecution is saying, wait a second, why is it that you struck 11, used 11 strikes to strike african-americans? more troubling as we saw the demographic of the community is 70% white, 25% or so african-american. but jury, you're entitled to a fair trial. as a result of that entitlement to the fair trial, the jury should adequately reflect a cross section of that community. it doesn't. what's troubling here is you have the judge embrace the notion that there was intentional discrimination or at least apparent discrimination on the defense's part with respect to their actions of excluding jurors but did nothing about it. in the event off judge and you feel the defense is engaged in that conduct, you have to issue a remedy, like, what, jim, erica? like potentially reseating the jurors that you struck because there's no basis for you to have excluded them in the first instance, like getting rid of the whole panel and starting anew. but you just don't say, it seems
that way, but the trial will start tomorrow. that's troubling. >> that's what has a lot of people frustrated. we want your take on what we're seeing in the kyle rittenhouse trial. new evidence, never before seen fbi aerial surveillance video. it shows a little bit what happened before rittenhouse shot three people including some interactions with joseph rosenbaum. rittenhouse's attorney has maintained that rosenbaum was chasing rittenhouse, but the new video suggests otherwise. what does this say to you about the strategy we'll see moving forward? >> i think the strategies, erica, are divergent but very clear. from the prosecution's perspective, you're talking about this person who had no basis or justification in being a vigilante, being an armed shooter, and just deciding to -- an active shooter, rather, and deciding to shoot for no basis. that's what we call intentional murder. the defense is arguing
self-defense. it was a violent crowd. they were milling about. they tried to attack my client. he was in imminent fear of his life. as a result, he shot. he heard a shot that was fired prior to him shooting. those are the narratives. the prosecution is saying there was no basis for his conduct in discharging his firearm. the defense says there is a basis, self-defense, and he was privileged to do it under the law. >> why was he there? 17 gr 17-year-old from out of state driving with this weapon? thank you, joey. >> thank you. still ahead, some eva evacuations from afghanistan continue more than two months after u.s. forces left. former u.s. allies there facing increasing danger. their lives at risk. we'll speak with one of the people trying to get some of the most at risk out of thethe coun. it's moving slowly.
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subaru. more than a car company. a u.s. air force investigation into a drone strike in kabul that killed ten civilians, ten innocent people, including seven children, not surprisingly found that the u.s. military and intelligence agencies made significant errors. the inspector general says, however, they did not break the law with this strike. the report also found that, quote, execution errors combined with a confirmation bias and communication breakdowns led to tragedy.
the i.g. still calls it, quote, an honest mistake. a little more than two months since the u.s. pulled out of afghanistan, and yet tens of thousands of afghan translators and members of the afghan military who fought alongside the u.s. remain behind and under great threat from the taliban. some of them have already been killed. pineapple express, you might have heard of this group a group of former u.s. military veterans and others who have been working hard to get some of those people out of the country, are now in particular focused on members of the afghan elite, special operations forces. lieutenant colonel scott mann joins me now, a green beret who served in afghanistan. he's been part of this group for some time. he'll be briefing the armed services committee today. good to have you on this morning. >> thanks for having me on, jim. appreciate it. >> let's speak specifically about the afghan special operations forces that you're lobbying for for their safety today, speaking to members of the house. why are they in particular under
threat today in afghanistan? >> well, jim, one of the things i would say is there are so many groups that are at risk right now in afghanistan, whether they are former female judges, lgbtq, or of course the afghan special operations forces. i think the reason that the afghan special operators are so concerning, as well, is also the risk if they are captured. these are folks we worked intimately, very closely with, so not only is there a moral imperative but a security imperative as well. you know, frankly, they stood up against the taliban all the way to the very end. >> they are the units really that kept fighting when we heard that many parts of the rest of the military peeled away. is it as simple as a life and death situation for them? are their lives in danger? are the taliban hunting them down now? >> we are definitely getting reports they are being actively hunted, but, you know, also understand that for all of the at-risk communities, winter is
coming to afghanistan, and that is no small thing. most of these people have had to move away from their homes because that's the risk associated with it. they're moving house to house with a bagful of belongings with their families. that plus being hunted, we really need to put a priority on trying to get these folks out as soon as we can. >> the sad fact of the math here is that to date a tiny percentage of overall special immigrant visa applicants, specifically members of the military, have gotten out of the country. in this category, these elite special operations forces, do you have any sense of what percentage of them have been able to escape safely? >> it is a tiny percentage, jim. i mean, it is a tiny percentage of these men and women who literally fought to the bitter end, even when their leaders left. they kept fighting and stood their ground. only a handful of them have made it out. in fact, they are still very much right now very coherent, very connected to our veteran
volunteers who have been basically on, like, an 80-day 991 911 call with no relief in sight. this is having a tremendous toll on our veterans as well. >> you'll be briefing members of the house armed services committee today. i know you have plans to speak to the senate in washington in the coming weeks. what specific help are you asking for from congress? and based on your conversations so far, are they willing to give it? >> well, it's just a select adjustment to what you said. it's select members of the house foreign affairs committee. we hope ultimately the senate and the armed forces. we need a broader discussion along immigration lines for the afghan special operations force. they're not eligible for an sib, but they need to be. they pose a national security risk if captured, but it's also a moral imperative. we're asking congress to help us create language that will allow
a path to citizenship for these amazing operators and professionals who fought to the very end. >> scott, you're doing great work, and i know the folks on your team are doing great work. a lot of folks on the ground risking their lives to do this. our thanks for the effort you're making. >> thanks, jim. keep our veterans and your families in your minds this veterans day. it goes far beyond "thank you for your service." they're carrying a heavy hold. >> will do. thank you. still ahead, a fresh warning for unruly airline passengers. an exclusive first look at the video you'll soon begin seeing from the faa. and here's a look at what else to watch today.
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incidents are actually being investigated and profession cuted. >> if you've been on one of these flights, like i have, it's no fun. the faa has sent only 37 of the more than 5,000 passenger complaints on to the department of justice. pete muntean has the details. >> reporter: this is a bit of good news because the faa cannot press criminal charges. it can assess civil fines, and it can refer cases to the department of justice. these 37 cases that have gone to the justice department are the most extreme cases of unruly passengers the faa tells me, has just released a new public service announcement. you're seeing it first on cnn, in which it shows the passenger would get if they're facing faa fines and their case is being referred to the doj. ♪
but these numbers also highlight an issue. in many cases passengers are walking free, not meeting law enforcement at the gate. faa administrator steve dixon told a senate hearing about this, and he says he is trying to close theengers ultimately f punishment and maybe prison time. >> there's more to be done. it requires the cooperation of all those private sector stakeholders including the airports as well as the various aspects of the federal government, fatsa and doj. we'll continue to stay focused on that. >> reporter: we could be seeing the start of a shift here. that american airlines incident where a passenger allegedly punched a flight attendant in the face was charged earlier this week, and the faa says federal investigators did meet him at the gate. he could face up to 20 years in prison. jim and erica?
>> goodness. let's hope they police better. pete muntean, thanks very much. a quick programming note -- a cnn town hall, i'm excited, i hope you eenwill join us for ou sixth annual town hall to answer questions about getting your kids vaccinated. join us for the abcs of covid vaccines. we both have kids in that 5 to 11 category that are eligible. kids and families have a lot of question. >> plus big bird, elmo, and erica, three of my favorite people. >> it's a fine way to kick off your weekend. >> i'll be there. lots of important questions answered. thanks for joining us today. i'm jim sciutto. >> i'm erica hill. stay tuned. "at this hour" with kate bolduan starts after a quick break.
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hello, everyone. i'm kate bolduan. here's what we're watching at this hour. big strategy shift. house speaker nancy pelosi pushing a head for a vote on president biden's agenda even if it puts house democrats more at odds with senate democrats. 12 jurors but only one who is african-american. now a warning about discrimination from the judge at the trial of the men who killed ahmaud arbery. and a new weapon against covid. a pill to fight the virus that is being called a possible gam