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tv   New Day With John Berman and Brianna Keilar  CNN  October 27, 2021 4:00am-5:00am PDT

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and i could feel the wind from the shotgun, you know, being discharged. it was heavy. it was strong. i would talk to my fellow cast members afterwards, and we all tkpwraepld agreed how intense that was and how scary and real it was. but some of the other actors who had worked on a lot more sets as i have as principal characters, they were double and triple-checking our weapons after the armorer gave them to us. whether they were cold or hot. >> the da in new mexico says the investigation is active and criminal charges are not being ruled out at this point. this is important. that it was a legit gun. this wasn't a prop gun. this was a gun that could have been used with real bullets, and that is the gun that fired the deadly shot here. ammunition, some of it looks and
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also blood was found on the set. that was collected. according to that actor, ian hudson, shields had to be used for protection when blanks were being fired. then just take a look at this. this is a haunting image of halyna hutchins. this may be the last photo of her on set. she is there with a tan beanie covering her ears. stephanie elam is here with our top story. steph. >> reporter: brianna, when you hear that actor, ian hudson, talk about what he experienced on the set, he found his part before. but he had been here on the "rust" set. take a listen to him speak a little bit more about his experience. >> everyone on the camera crew was protected by shields. that made me question being in front of the camera and sort of
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in between all that fire. brandon lee, having died in '93, you know, that conversation came up a couple times between my fellow cast members and i. >> now, it's worth noting the productions company behind the movie said they had no official complaints about props or safety on the set of "rust". they said the autopsy could take 6 to 10 weeks before we know what the forensics show what caused for halyna hutchins to die. we have heard from the district attorney telling the "new york times" they want to determine what kinds of rounds were used. and they also want to find out who placed this 'em in the gun. we know there was ammunition found on set. the district attorney said there was a lot of it. and according to the list that
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we see from the investigators here, there were nine spent casings, three revolvers. ammunition in boxes. some of it looks. some of it looks in a fanny pack. it is not clear if they were dummy rounds or live ammunition. that is something we are planning to learn about more today from the sheriff's department and expected to hear from the d.a. here as well, brianna and john. >> it really makes you wonder when you hear him saying, steph, the death of brandon lee was on his mind and the mind of other actors in this movie. is that normal in movies like this? steph any elam, thank you so much. we will talk with a cinematographer who said guns should never be allowed on sets. covid-19 shots could start going into the arms of 28 million children in the united states as early as next week. an fda advisory committee voted to recommend the pfizer low dose
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shot for kids ages 5 to 11. the biden administration plans to start rolling out the doses as soon as it is granted emergency use authorization by the fda and cdc. 130,000 lives lost to coronavirus could have been saved had former president trump listened to the science instead of worried about the election. that is the message from dr. deborah birx, saying i believe the reduction in indoor deaning, getting friends and family to understand the risk of gathering in private homes, and increase tes testing, we had increased testing, that we probably could have decreased fatalities into the 30% less to 40% less range. nurse and covid survivor liza billings lost her brother to covid-19. i'm so sorry. i know that probably feels like
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just yesterday. i heard about your brother leo and hear he's an awesome guy. what do you think when you hear dr. birx saying these lives didn't need to be lost? >> good morning. when i heard the testimony of dr. birx, it's heartbreaking to hear it, to know that tens of thousands of people didn't have to lose their loved ones. through a simple task of especially forcing and encouraging people to wear their masks or to socially distance. i believe it's something that was so simple and just didn't -- president trump didn't want to do it at the time. i want waiting for the government to create a covid commission so we can look at the response to the pandemic so we
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can see the mistakes we made and never make them again. i am waiting for the opportunity to encourage the government to provide -- to provide health care for everyone, to provide scholarships and help to children who lost their parents to covid. >> you know, look, i know you have a lot of criticism for former president trump. what about people like deborah birx who are working with the administration. they will make the argument they were trying to do the best under tough circumstances. do you hold her accountable? >> the people i hold accountable are the ones who get in front of the camera and provide the information to others. i believe the administration had the opportunity to say that to others, to prevent
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misinformation. it is so much harder to deflect misinformation than it is to spread truth. they had that chance. dr. birx, i believe, was attempting to get the ear of the president. but it sounded like she wasn't able to do so. >> you've spoken a lot about how, you know, with all the bad of covid, you have hoped that the sacrifice and the isolation is something that takes on meaning. when you hear that so many lives could have been saved, does that challenge that hope? >> i don't think so. i watch a lot of nurses every day, a lot of doctors and a lot of ancillary staff at my hospital provide care to
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patients with covid. it is something that we are just naturally doing so we can help people. i think we just need to continue to educate others, to encourage people to get vaccinated so that we can help those who are most vulnerable not get covid. we just -- i know that people want to move on, and i know that we want this crisis to be over, but we need to be aware that it is still here and we need to do what we can to prevent it. >> liza, we appreciate the work that you do every day. thank you so much for being with us. we appreciate it. liza billings. >> thank you so much. kyle rittenhouse is set to go on trial next week for murder. the teenager killed two people in kenosha, wisconsin during protests last year in the aftermath of the jacob make police shooting. now, what has a lot of people paying attention this morning is a pretty controversial decision
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by the judge in a pretrial hearing as there were some ground rules set that the prosecution is not happy with. >> victim is a loaded, loaded word. and i think alleged victim is a cousin to it. let the evidence show what the evidence shows. and if the evidence shows that any or more than one of these people were engaged in arson, rioting or looting, then i'm not going to tell the defense they can't call them that. . >> okay. "early start" laura jarrett joins us. let me explain what happened there. people say kyle rittenhouse killed -- they cannot be called victims, the people that he killed. they can be called rioters and looters.
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>> that's the part that people are calling so disturbing. the prosecution is calling it a double standard. they're dead. they cannot defend themselves. when there is an agreement that somebody han harmed, in some way injured or killed, victim is an acceptable term. courts are split on this. jury instructions use the term victim all the time. some people define it in different ways. but what is playing out, the judge took it a step further. saying the people who died should be cast in the light of the crimes they committed. if you're the prosecutor in the case, you're going to say this is extremely prejudicial. but there's not much they can do about it. if kyle rittenhouse gets off on this, if he is found not guilty,
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they cannot retry him. it's interesting. i think one of the things to remember is why is this even coming up, right? rittenhouse is going to say self-defense. i was so afraid from all of these looters and arsonist. evidence 101 tells you that is not going to fly. that's why this evidence shouldn't have been let in. whether someone was setting fire to a building nearby should have no bearing on whether kyle rittenhouse was in fear for his life and decided to shoot people. those two things don't go together. the judge said police told rittenhouse and others, we appreciate you guys. you can tell this is just going to be fraught from top to bottom. and jury selection begins monday. . >> can't be called alleged victims. >> not even decedents.
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>> it's not even alleged looter. >> it will confuse the jury. you are demonizing the people who died. they will be arguing about whether in fact, they are they were looters or rioters. it will not focus on the person on trial. >> this is unusual. >> judges have a lot of discretion. they can do anything they want on these rules of evidence. >> laura jarrett, thank you very much. so just a short time ago, democrats released the details, this is for the first time, of a major new tax plan that targets the richest billionaires in the united states. so is this the final evidence, final element that will finally help pass the president's weeping domestic agenda? also, is it plain constitutional?
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new cnn reporting that election officials are growing more fearful for their lives. and did the movie "social net network" get the portrayal of mark zuckerberg right? chances are your lawn looks like this. fortunately, scotts turf builder can repair the wear and tear so you can keep the fun going long into the fall.
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new this morning, democrats have just released the details of what they are calling a billionaire's income tax. here is how it would work. taxing gains on assets every year at the time of sale on those month make $100 million in income for three years.
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it would affect 700 to 800 people in the whole country every year. catherine rampell and john leiber, former adviser to mitch mcconnell. catherine, this is important for two reasons. it is possible this is one of the last missing links for democrats on how to pass their agenda. the second part, this is a very, very different and very major tax overhaul. how exactly do you see it? >> i think what happened is as much as democrats like to tax the rich and corporations, it had gotten cold field on all the ways to tax the rich and corporations. they have ruled out a number of pretty targeted proposals, eliminating the step up basis, or raising tax rates on
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corpo corporations. skpef struck down on obvious ways to raise money. they are looking for something palatable and it will raise revenue. everybody wants to go after the billionaires. they can't afford to pay more in taxes. the question is whether this will work. it has constitution ality questions to it. it is not exactly how well it would work, what do you do, for example, if a billionaire loses assets from one year to another. is uncle sam going to be cutting a check to mark zuckerberg. that will not be politically popular. i'm concerned this may not wash, it may even get struck down by the supreme court. they should go back to some of the other things, more solid ways to raise money. >> john, some have been arguing for a version of this for years,
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saying this is how the ultra rich a mass wealth. they don't get a salary. so taxing their salary doesn't have them pay their fair share. they a mass wealth through assets which grow as long as they live. so what's wrong with paying them pay for that wealth being amassed? >> catherine talked about some of the ways. one is eliminating the step up basis death. but you wouldn't get the money right away the way that you would here. it will result in asset sales on some that are targeted by this and unexpected effects. if the supreme court strikes this down, there won't be any revenue to pay for the spending bill they are pushing right now.
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it is a controversial new way of doing this. we generally don't tax people on unappreciated gains because it doesn't count as income. they have been pushing this all year. it is effective with a lot of democrats but probably not all of them. and i don't think this is the end game here. we will see a few other scramble before we get to new legislation. >> it is called the billionaires income tax. the reason to or that is legally it needs to be income. in order to be taxable. we'll let the courts decide. i'm curious about the politics of this. tabgtsing the rich is popular. i'm not saying right or wrong. . >> it's popular as long as the rich means someone richer than me. >> these people are. >> right. objectively speaking, we have already ruled out tax increases on the top 10%, top 5% of
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households. they are within the top end of the income distribution. a lot of them are maybe constituents of the people considering passing these taxes. taxing the rich and the abstract is popular. you cannot deny elon musk is richer. richer than the 99th percentile. is this legally and logistically work bie -- workable. >> you have heard a long time from elizabeth warren and bernie sanders of the world. a corporate minimum tax is interesting, too, which is not letting corporations like amazon and others get away with not paying hardly anything in corporate taxes here. again, i ask you, is this -- or why wouldn't be this a fair way to get at some of these inequities? . >> you can tax the people.
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they will not miss the money. they obviously have a lot more mope. it's not whether or not they can afford it, it is the principles we will use to tax people. if we are doing this with billionaires, we are exempting other people because it's not fair to go after those people. the interesting thing is not only high income modest wealth americans going to get away possibly without any taxen increase, they might end up with a tax cut because of the salt tax. the state and local cap is lifted which will be for some of the highest income people in this country. this isn't about fairness when you look at income inequality. it is targeting a small amount of people with a lot of wealth. >> weather they choose to do this could be a linchpin in making this whole thing happen. i appreciate you being here and helping us understand it.
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so the author who inspired the "social network" film responds to facebook's existential crisis. plus, regifting and it feels so good. the tampa bay bucs fan who received and returned tom parady's historic 600th career touchdown pass will join us next. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ (music quieter) ♪ (phone clicks) ♪ ♪ my retirement plan with voya keeps me moving forward... even after paying for this. love you, sweetheart they guide me with achievable steps that give me confidence.
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flip-flops. you pretentious. >> that was a scene you may recall from "social network," that came out in 2010 based on the accident billionaires" book. he said this got mark zuckerberg exactly right. there are new troubling revelations insisting the company is having a tougher time managing vaccine misinformation than it is saying publicly. the author of the new book, "the antisocial network." it is fascinating. i can't wait for that, ben. back to the social network. telling about this. especially in light of facebook and the most recent problems, you say the film got zuckerberg exactly right. how so? >> yeah. i really think that we captured what zuckerberg was trying to do
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and who he really is. he truly believed facebook was going to make the world better but for mostly people like him. what he discovered along the way, it is a lot easier to get engagement if you get people riled up and get people excited. the goal was to get everyone on facebook. i think it is time for a sequel. the reality is it's gotten more and more like we said in the "social network" every day. what they are trying to do is get as many people on facebook no matter what it does to the world in general. >> no matter what the cost may be. i wonder as you reflect on the book and the movie, is there anything you think you got wrong? >> listen, i think i got the wink eleby wrong. the karate kid wasn't really the good guy, right?
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what we have seen is with facebook and zuckerberg, again and again and again, they do things that upset everybody. instead of changing, they continue forward. and you see that in zuckerberg's response to all of this. he is adamant what he is doing is right. and we're seeing -- listen, we love facebook. we all find our friends on it. that doesn't mean facebook is our friend. facebook is doing things to maximize engagement. and that isn't always good for us. >> yeah. i love the karate kid reference by the way. i'm sure you have heard cobra kai. i wonder if we can listen to zuckerberg's defiant response when it comes to the revelations in the facebook papers. let's listen. >> good criticism helps us get better. my view what we are seeing is a coordinated effort to
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selectively use leaked documents to paint a false picture of our company. the reality is that we have an open culture where we encourage discussion and research about work so we can make progress on many complex issues that are not specific to just us. >> what did you think about that? >> i think it's very rich that he is claiming a media conspiracy when what we're talking about is the fact that conspiracy theories are gaining so much traction on facebook. i think it's kind of a really moment, you know, in history where we keep looking for conspiracies. he believes that the press is out to get him. when really i think he's doing it the way he thinks should be done and people are reacting padly to it. they want more people engaged in facebook. if that means emojis count more than likes, that's the way they are going to go. there is no conspiracy pointing that out. >> you said zuckerberg never
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cared about making money. and i wonder all of these years and billions of dollars later, do you still think that's true? >> listen, i think he enjoys money. you see him jet skiing or water skiing or whatever it is. he never set out to make money. he turned down a million dollars in high school for a program he had written. he founded facebook to get everyone in the world together with him at the top. i think there's a little megalomania going on. if you look at what is being done, it is more about engagement than money. young people are leaving facebook and trying to find ways to drive engagement to continue to make it bigger and bigger and bigger. it's a monster that needs to be continually fed. i think that was facebook's goal all along, or mark's goal all along. it wasn't the money. >> that's fascinating. we saw that from his earnings call. ben, fascinating interview.
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i just want you to know your interview made me $6 richer. my co-anchor said he would give me six bucks if you said wink el vi. >> well, thank you. i say it every morning when i wake up. >> who doesn't? ben, awesome to talk to you. thank you so much. >> you as well. thank you. >> worth every penny, too. it's the most that every sports fan dreams about. a tampa bay bucs was gifted a touchdown ball saturday night against the bears. >> yeah! yes! >> his joy was short-lived
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because that was tom brady's history-making 600th touchdown pass, and brady wanted the ball back. byron kennedy, thanks so much for being with us. the receiver who caught the ball, every time he catches a touchdown he goes to the stands and hands the ball to a fan. you were wearing a mike evans jersey. you were right there to get the ball. then everyone on the bench realized that's his 600th career touchdown pass. there is a problem with that. i could see in your face about how excited you were there. what was it like to get the ball from mike evans. >> it was incredible. it puts a smile on my face. i can hear how excited i was. it was such an incredible moment for me. . >> now, you didn't know at the time exactly what it was such an important ball, did you? >> no. not right when he handed it to me. i knew that was going to happen at some point in this game. as tom brady threw it, i didn't
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realize that was the 600th touchdown. >> so then what happens? >> so i'm in the stadium celebrating with everyone, everyone is congratulating me, wants to take pictures, touch the ball and everything. tim comes over, he works with the bucs. he said, basically, listen, can we get that ball back, please? and i told him no a couple times. i had never had anything like that happen to me before. it was so cool. i wanted to keep that 23footbal. we kept going back and forth. he said tom brady really wants this football. like i said, what am i going to do, say no to tom brady? he deserves the football. he's the one who broke all these records. so i ended up giving it back. >> now, did you set conditions? did you start saying this is what i want in return? >> not really, no. he was saying, like, we can get you some signed jerseys. maybe he will come over and say hey afterwards. one thing i did do, when they
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were mentioning seened jerseys, i asked for a second one for my buddy, who is a season ticket holder. i wanted to get him a little something out of it. >> it is smart. so what you ended up with -- when i first heard the story, he held up for all of this stuff, you ended up with two signed tom brady jerseys and helmet, signed mike evans jersey and game cleats, two season tickets for the remainder of 21 and 22. $1,000 for the bucs team store. >> it was the right thing to do to give the ball back. and i was willing to do that for honestly next to nothing. the team was nice enough to go ahead and send me some compensation because the ball was obviously worth a ton. the team wanted to make it up to me. tom wanted to make it up to me. so i think they did a great job.
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>> now, brady was on with the mannings later on. and brady said, he should have held out for me! but i think he was kidding. do you wish you had held out for more? >> i think he was joking, too. and peyton manning called me an amateur. that was hilarious. i'm just grateful they said my name on tv. >> you are a doctor in training. so glad you have all of this stuff coming. enjoy the next year and a half watching the bucs in person. finally he has a trinket to put in his trophy case. . >> he ya. i'm excited to go to a lot of these things. i can't wait >> byron kennedy, thank you very much. >> of course. thank you. so election officials targeted by the former president admit they now live in fear and are desperate for protection. the threats they received by just doing their job.
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secretaries of state who push back against donald trump's election lies say they are now living in fear, constantly targeted by the ex-president supporters. the threat appears to be intensifying. what is going on here? >> look, john, this is a really scary situation for election officials all across the country. people who have been caught up in the political back and forth as the president and his allies -- the former president and his allies have been lying
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about the election results. that has stirred up a level of anger and hatred that is creating violent, violent threats. people calling in, emailing, tweeting saying they're going to come and get these people. and these are admittedly low level state officials who never had to think about security before and are living in fear for their lives and safety. not just them, people who work for them. even people just showing up as poll workers thinking they don't want to be part of this anymore. . >> is the federal deposit doing anything to protect these people? >> there's a task force the justice tent has put together about this. there are some measures here. but recollection officials that i spoke to, secretaries of state, again, statewide elected officials but not positions that most people have thought of much or heard of from are saying it's not enough. they don't feel there is enough there. they want state funding to have security details or police
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protection. and in speaking, for example, to the mitch secretary of state, jocelyn benson, she said nobody has been put on trial for this. nobody has been put in prison. there aren't consequences that have really changed what's going on. and i asked her does she feel safe and she said sometimes. that's a woman who had people show up at her house and had to have 24-hour police protection at times during the last year. . >> sometimes. only sometimes. people not feeling safe just for doing their jobs. isaac, thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you. >> a final push for terry mcauliffe in virginia. the president campaigning for mcauliffe and going after the former president donald trump and the republican candidate in the race, glenn youngkin urging them to defeat republican extremism. >> extremism can come in many
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forms. it can come in the rage of a mob driven to assault the capitol. it can come in a smile and a fleece vest. either way, the big lie is still a big lie. >> joining me now, joining us now, cnn chief political correspondent and co-anchor of the state of the union dana bash. calling him an extremist was the goal at this event >> absolutely. it has been number one on the playbook, in the playbook, i should say, of the mcauliffe campaign. he has brought in national figures like the president. they have tried to amplify that play. and that is to say that glenn youngkin is not just too
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conservative for the trending blue, very blue commonwealth virginia, but he is too trumpy. that has been the turf on which the democrats have felt was the best to play on. and the challenge they have been having, youngkin is not as easy to put in the trump bock assay larry elder back last month in california during the recall fight as he was. largely because he actually was more trumpy, if you will, than glenn youngkin is. so it's going to be really fascinating to see how successful those arguments end up being in what really is a neck and neck race with the candidate glenn youngkin who is trying to kind of shape shift himself depending who he is and who he is talking to. tkpwefrp that it is so close, especially since joe biden won
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by 10 points just in november, seems to be at least successful just keeping him in the game at this point >> dana, we know you have been hard at work on a special that addresses perhaps the most important issue in politics and maybe american democracy and that is the big lie. let's watch part of this. . >> if you want to make it easier for people to vote, why not take that experiment in harris county, 24-hour voting, drive-in voting, and do it across the state? >> great question. probably for the same reason as there's no other state in the union that has 24-hour voting >> gop representative travis clardy said he wanted uniform voting. >> i talk to county clerks who run elections. the feedback on that is it is not feasible. you have to have trained election workers. >> 6th they are people there, during a pandemic.
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people were willing to do it. >> in harris county, with those people -- but you also can create opportunities for mischief. >> again, there is no evidence that happened with 24-hour voting for drive-through voting for anywhere in the state of texas. >> republicans who are backing these new laws in texas say it's not about targeting harris county. it is about enacting uniform laws. . >> i think it's a convenient response. harris county has a population greater than 25 states. a small rural county is not going to need to employ all the same strategies that harris county that dallas or austin are going to have to use to make sure all of their residents have access to the ballot. >> a fascinating look. tell us what else we can expect when we tune in tonight at 9:00. >> well, that is just part of the new law in texas. we went to texas, arizona and
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georgia. and the reason is because these are three states, particularly georgia and arizona, where the now former president was defeated. and in those states you see the pressure that he and his who are egged on by the former president, his allies and the media who amplify what they're saying to change the laws, and the laws have been changed, particularly in georgia, in a really dramatic way. such that the guardrails that allowed the secretary of state in georgia, brad raffensperger to push back against the president, the president's infamous calls to please find me the votes, those have been taken away by the republican-led legislature. so they have the ability to take over the election process if that happens again. that is one of the fundamentals
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of democracy. and by that i mean people out there, knowing that, a, their votes count, and, b, that they will be counted in a proper way. and, so that's in georgia. in texas what you just played, it is a state that donald trump actually won, but in the counties, in the big cities, harris county is where houston is, huge turnout there for joe biden. why is that? because of the pandemic, people were able to vote because they came up with creative ways like i mentioned, 24-hour voting, drive-through voting and what the legislature there has done, a lot of things, but one of the things that they did is take that away. they looked at basically what worked and worked well, and ended up working well in the democrats' favor and stripped it away. they say it is because they want uniform laws, but if that's the case, they could have made it easier to vote across the board,
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and they didn't. and even republicans i talked to, ben ginsburg, veteran election lawyer, says point blank, it is because they have the big lie to justify it, and they're worried about demographic shifts, and if they make it harder for people of color to vote, it will keep them in power longer. says that point blank. >> well, you really dig into this topic. it is just so essential. we hear you pushing back there on some of the claims that just don't stick from that republican official and we know you're going to do a lot of that tonight. >> it is one year until the midterms and the new laws really to could make a huge difference and impact on how the balance of power in washington and the legislatures across the country are affected. >> yeah. it is so significant. dana, can't wait to see it tonight at 9:00. >> set your dvr. i know you'll be sleeping. >> i know, right. exactly. what is the cost of the new changes to voting laws? dana will be exploring how this big lie is becoming a bigger
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threat, that is a cnn special report called "stop the vote" and it premieres tonight at 9:00. one of the actors on the film "rust" is speaking out for the first time and why criminal charges are not being ruled out in the alec baldwin shooting.
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the old way of doing business slows everyone down. with paycom, employees enter and manage their own hr data in one easy-to-use software. visit for a free demo. colin kaepernick is a hero to many, but painted as a villain by others. his decision to kneel during the national anthem sparked a movement and got him locked out of the nfl at the height of his career. now the former san francisco 49ers quarterback is reclaiming his narrative with the limited series "colin in black and white" premeiering on netflix o october 29th. >> let me share a story with you that is not told enough.
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while i was in high school, i still had a lot to learn about the way the world works. but you know what, i wouldn't trade those moments for anything. >> powerful. joining me now is oscar nominated filmmaker, director and co-creator of "colin in black and white" ava duvernay. thank you for being with us. >> happy to be here. >> this looks so interesting. obviously you're telling about it -- the story about someone we all have been following for years but doing it in a very different way. focusing on a lot of the childhood. >> he was interested in telling his story but beginning at the beginning. so you start with his early life, his teenage years and i was fascinated by it because it allows us to get a glimpse of the foundation, right. how did this young man, who is a biracial kid adopted into a white family, grew up in a predominantly white town, go on
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to be a singular american figure as it relates to protests around race. and police brutality. so it is a fascinating story, but we began at the beginning. >> let me play a little bit more because it gets to this. >> all right. >> turned out my competition wasn't only on the field. >> look, you got a ton of natural talent, okay johnson, he's the prototype i'm looking for. >> growing up with white parents, i assumed their privilege was mine. >> you're too-- you two good? >> i'm good. >> i'm good too, thanks. >> i was in for a rude awakening. >> what does he go through that had that direct impact later on? >> i think it is ideas about privilege. he was in a privileged environment growing up as the adopted biracial son of white parents. he was moving through life as, you know, through a lens or gaze
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of being someone who is not outside the dominant culture, being someone who did not have to struggle as much early on with issues of race or class or respectability. as he became older, those started to enter into his life in a way that was startling and challenging for him and his parents, not quite being able to handle now a young black man who lives with you. as he grew out of the cute toddler phase in elementary school, the challenges and struggles with race became more clear, became more defined, and all of them were kind of ill equipped to deal with it. >> you think you're an insider until you realize -- >> that's exactly what it was, yeah. >> do you think he misses that time? >> i don't know. no, i think he has such a sober look at it all, where he looks at it as a formative time that made him who he is today. and from my interactions with him, which were extensive in this, he's a really confident
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guy. positive guy. so, you know, i think -- i'm hoping this piece shows is it is not just about colin kaepernick. y wayou watch that is and think are the steps on my journey? we go through six big events in his early childhood that really kind of change the course and made him who he is today. >> i think back at how long this has been for colin kaepernick. >> yeah, a while. >> from the moment he went from just a very good super bowl playing quarterback to all of a sudden being a lightning rod. >> six years, i think. >> six years. does he feel like it's worth it? >> i don't know. it is hard to say what he feels. i know in working with him, you know, he really has something he wants to say, wants to express, doesn't do interviews, he's not there on the press. so i felt fortunate that he interested me with the story. and he's expressed himself through his work. >> ava duvernay on her new


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