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tv   New Day With John Berman and Brianna Keilar  CNN  October 26, 2021 5:00am-6:00am PDT

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according to the wrap, crew members used prop guns with live ammunition for target practice, a past time called plinking, just hours before cinematographer halyna hutchins was killed. their report says one of the guns was handed to alec baldwin that fired the shot that killed hutchins and injured the film's director. >> we have new reporting about the assistant director on the movie, dave halls. he was fired from a movie set in 2019 after a crew member was injured in another gun safety incident. he is the one who according to police reports handed the weapon to alec baldwin. and joining us now to discuss this, corporate media reporter at "the los angeles times" meg james. meg, this is incredibly, incredibly disconcerting, this possibility that live rounds were not only on the set, but they were -- these guns were being used for target practice.
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>> right. i mean, this story is really just a tragedy in so many ways. and in my conversations with crew members, last week, and over the weekend, you know, i -- there was a common theme that emerged, it was -- there was a big rush on the production, and they felt that there was really a disregard for safety. and with every new detail that comes out, it just seems to become more horrific. it is really sad. >> if you can talk a little bit more about that. you spoke to a very experienced armorer who said he actually turned down the job of armorer on this film because he had concerns. what were the red flags that he saw after he spoke to the producers about the film. >> this was a really interesting story. i spoke with neil zaromsky, a veteran prop master, he's been working in hollywood for more
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than 30 years and when he -- when the production managers from "rust" reached out to him in late september, he was at first really thrilled because in his long career he had never worked on a western. so he thought, wow, you know, this is my opportunity and alec baldwin on this film, i mean, he thought it was just, wow, this would be a great opportunity. so he immediately jumped on t he had conversations with the production managers over the course of four days, and he found that their answers were kind of evasive, he wanted -- this was really sort of to cut to the chase, he wanted to have an assistant prop master and he wanted to have an armorer, one person who would be specifically dedicated to the care and handling of the guns. and the production said no, we only want one person to fill both roles. and that really gave him a sick pit in his stomach feeling. and he turned down the job. the other thing that was interesting about it was that he thought it was strange that they
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were -- that they still had not organized, lined up the prop masters and the armorer two weeks before the cameras were supposed to roll. and that's really unusual. and to him that was another red flag that this might be a disorganized production. >> and what about, meg, these other reports of weapons going off on set before, discharging in a way they were not intended to before this deadly incident? >> yes, this was a key part of my reporting over the weekend was that there had been several accidental discharges of these weapons. and people who worked on the set were wondering why wasn't there any investigation into these accidental discharges, there were two -- the saturday before the accident, and there were no safety meetings, these people said. and on a set that usually have safety meetings so people know, like, where, you know, the weapons are going to be, how
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they're going to be used, and the people who worked on this set found it really disconcerting that there was just a go, go, go mentality and not really a focus or an emphasis on safety. >> you know, meg, one of the questions i have is reading the affidavit, you can see that they broke for lunch, and then they came back and they were doing this rehearsal after lunch. there is a big question if the guns were checked before lunch, were they checked after the lunch, presumably no because there was a weapon that had a live round in it, right? so what questions does that raise for you, especially considering the inexperience of the armorer on this movie? >> well, you had an inexperienced prop master, you had an inexperienced armorer, she had one film credit just a couple months before this "rust" and then you have the assistant director who cnn and others including "the los angeles
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times" reported about some problems in his past on past sets, people thinking that his behavior was brusque and abrasive and just sort of that rush, rush, rush mentality. >> yeah, so many questions here. so many questions. we are getting more answers though. meg, i appreciate you providing some of them. meg james. >> thank you. we have new developments in the biggest crisis in facebook's 17-year history. tens of thousands of pages of damning revelations leaked by whistle-blower frances haugen showed how facebook profits off the spread of false information and relies on an algorithm that pushes fake news. among the revelations cnn has uncovered so far facebook allegedly misled the public about perpetuating misinformation and extremism linked to the 2020 election and insurrection, it allowed its algorithm to promote qanon conspiracy theories to users, it
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may have misled its own oversight board. facebook's ceo mark zuckerberg stroke a defensive tone to say the least and blamed media during his company's quarterly earnings call. >> good faith criticism helps us get better. but my view is that what we're seeing is a coordinated effort to selectively use leaked documents to paint a false picture of our company. the reality is that we have an open culture where we encourage discussion and research, about our work, so we can make progress on many complex issues that are not specific to just us. >> joining me now is roger mcnamee, early facebook investigator and mentor to mark zuckerberg, the author of "zucked: waking up to the facebook catastrophe." thank you for being with us. what do you make of that defiant aggressive reaction from mark zuckerberg to all these revelations, he's saying it is a
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coordinated media attack! >> i think mark has been backed into a corner and he doesn't really have a choice. the fundamental problem that he faces is that he spent the last ten years successfully persuading policymakers and the press that every attack against him was really an attack on free speech. and frances haugen, the facebook whistle-blower, has brought out evidence from facebook's own experts, shared with the entire employee base, that say, i mean, they prove demonstrably that facebook's internal culture and its business policies and its algorithms, the whole business model if you will, is designed to essentially maximize anger and fear in the users in order to profit from them. and that is just completely unacceptable. and it has got everybody recognizing that the issue is business model and it is facebook itself. >> i have an example of this, that popped up, in "the washington post" new reporting it has to do with the algorithm.
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let me read you a quote. starting in 2017, facebook's ranking algorithm treated emoji reactions as five times more valuable than likes internal documents revealed. facebook's own researchers were quick to suspect a critical flaw favoring controversial posts including those that make users angry could open the door to more spam abuse click bait inadvertently, from a staffer whose name was redacted wrote in one of the internal documents, a colleague responded, it's possible. so emotional reactions, literally emojis, five times more powerful than a like. the algorithm benefiting sort of anger or emotional responses, is that what you're talking about? >> exactly. think about it this way. there are nearly 3 billion people inside facebook. there are no walls, there's no safeguards of any kind. you then have a business model that is aimed at promoting fear
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and outrage for profit. and you have perfect information about each user, so you give the advertisers the ability to target people individually. so it is no shock that really extreme ideas, white supremacy, anti-vaxx, or ideas that are scams or things like human trafficking suddenly have their whole ecosystem inside facebook and without any safeguards it is really easy for them to exploit the people there and drive extreme ideas into the mainstream. that is precisely what happened. >> now you have basically three things that need to be addressed to fix this, what are they? >> so, john, i believe we need to look at this as a technology industry problem, not just a facebook problem. in that respect, mark is correct. first, safety. we need to recognize we need something like the food and drug administration that sits there and says when a technology is ready to come to market, when the safeguards are in place, and it needs to look at existing products like facebook, like
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youtube, instagram and the like, tiktok, and set rules that make them safe for users. secondly, we need to look at privacy. we need to recognize that it is not fair for corporations to know everything about us and have these tools that can exploit the portions of our personalities we can't control and manipulate our behavior. that goes on routinely now and spread outside the tech industry. so that is going to require some new laws. and then lastly, we need to have competition. when facebook went down a couple of weeks ago, the millions of people who depend on facebook for their business lost their market place. and you have to have the ability for alternatives to exist. so people are not so dependent. those are the three things we need and we need them from congress right now and the great thing is frances haugen has removed any excuse for inaction. >> we see it. it is in the programming. it is in the business model. roger mcnamee, thank you for being with us. >> it is a great pleasure, john. thank you for having me on. senator joe manchin says he sees a deal in sight.
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but now some progressives are sounding the alarm. the sticking points that could derail the possibility of a deal this week for the president's agenda. plus, capitalizing on tragedy, the t-shirts being sold by donald trump jr. that seem to mock the deadly shooting involving actor alec baldwin. and jeff bezos has a plan to build a business center in space. so how soon could this happen? and what's the dress code? when did you see the signs? when i needed to create a better visitor experience. improve our workflow. attract new customers. that's when fastsigns commended fleet graphics. yeah, annow business is rolling in. i've lost count of how many asthma attacks i' had. but my nunormal with nucala? fewer asthma attacks. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection
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a new response from comedian dave chappelle following this controversy surrounding his latest netflix special saying it isn't about beef with the lgbtq community, but it is about corporate interests. let's listen. >> you said you want a safe working environment at netflix. well, it seems like i am the only one that can't go to the office anymore. do not blame the lgbtq community for any of this [ bleep ]. this has nothing to do with them. it is about corporate interests and what i can say and what i cannot say. to the transgender community, i'm more than willing to give you an audience. but you will not summon me. i am not bending to anybody's demands. >> let's talk about this with cnn senior political analyst john avlon as well as journalist and the host of the podcast run tell this, maria schiavocampo.
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what is your reaction? >> he's making this about free speech, he's making this about efforts to reject cancel culture but he has won every skirmish related to the closer. netflix has stood behind him 100%, it refused to pull the special or add a disclaimer. the special has been in the top ten since it has been released. he was greeted at hollywood bowl way standing ovation. he just released ten new documentaries screening dates with ticket sales and he enjoys tremendous support from his fans, especially in the black community. so i'm not sure what he's fighting for at this point, when he is winning everything. >> i think what he's fighting for is against the pressure that is being applied to him and netflix to shut down the closer. people protest outside netflix, from within netflix. he's reacting to that pressure, not the results, which you're right, he has been winning every fight to date.
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and free speech, especially for a comedian, social commentator, seems to be something we should not dismiss because historically that's usually the losing argument. >> but you see this effort to fight something that is not happening. and that's what is confusing. he has not suffered any consequences. >> the fight is different from a consequence. he's winning the battles, you're absolutely right. he's pushing against a real tide, which is why we're talking about it this morning. >> i would argue that the tide has been working in his favor tremendously and that by doing this, he's actually raising some questions about what he's fighting for. people have been supporting him. when you speak to his fans, especially in the black community, this is a fight i've been having for weeks now because of my response to the special, people support him. >> which is that you don't like it. >> i did not like the special. i thought it was mean. >> and, look, i think the issue is that people -- a lot of people support dave chappelle, a lot of people are offended by this, there is no right to not be offended. having the discussion is evidence of the fact that there is a controversy. and my only issue is not whether
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chappelle's right or wrong, but absolute right to say what he wants. and especially comedians and social commentators, when we have these fights, in our culture, i think we do well to remember liberal values, which is i don't agree with what you say, but i defend to the death your right to say it. we move away these liberal impulses we're seeing to shut somebody dows special by saying this is the final word on this. this is the last thing i'm going to say about it and this is the last time i'm ever going to talk about it, drop the mic. so now why a few weeks later after he's had arguably tremendous success with this special is he bringing it up again in this way. >> i think the controversy has been pushed upon him. i think that's a very fair point. he said this is the last time i'm going to talk about it. that's because this issue has been elevated and there have been a lot of calls to condemn
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him and for netflix to -- i think netflix not pulling their support is the right thing to do. we can disagree and we should have great debates about things. it is the impulse to say he should be shut down for this point of view that i think is troubling, not only to chappelle fans, but to folks who say, look, we need to find a way to call a truce and do it by refolk o refocusing on liberal values. if you look at what he's talking about in the special, he's talking about individualism, and the right of people to be seen as individuals and not as members of a group. that wades into a really thicket of controversy now. i think that's actually an underlying idea that gets lost when we retreat to these group identities and start pointing fingers at each other. >> do people have a right to be upset by the special? >> i can certainly understand why the lgbtq community is upset. it is not my place to speak on their behalf, but i do listen. so when you havet because they're so upset about this, you have leaders of
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advocacy groups saying this special is actually dangerous, in the midst of the deadliest year on record for transgender men and women, i have to take that seriously. i think anybody that is part of a marginalized group and i'm part of two wants to be a strong ally to those who are seeking allies because we all need allies. it is understandable why people are upset. however, i think this san important point to make, it is also understandable why he has so much support within the black community. he has been a tireless advocate for social justice for decades. in fact, he walked away from the chappelle show because in part he said he didn't like the way it was portraying black people. he walked away from $50 million for that. he is a fighter for the culture and i understand why he's a black hero for that. >> i got to say, no one has been canceled. someone is making a lot of money off of specials that are being sold right now. >> i want to see what you guys think about the mask that we have seen on the house floor. i think you have seen this. it is a south carolina
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congressman jeff duncan and it says let's go brandon. so if you have a friend name brandon, maybe you think this is funny. what is going on here is that at a nascar race, a guy who won, the driver who won, brandon brown, there was a cheer coming from the crowd and the commentator thought it was let's go brandon. it was actually f joe biden. so that mask says -- >> f joe biden. it says one thing, f joe biden. >> it is one of these funny political moments, like cofefe coverage, i think they're having fun politically, it speaks to something more serious, a lot of people are trying to figure out if the playbook of running against joe biden is going to be more successful. we're seeing little test balloons if you will and how successful they will or won't be. >> so, look, i think it is
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pretty different than the cofefe kerfuffle. this says f joe biden. this chant is getting mainstreamed. i went to the beach with my kids. there is a guy with his jeep on the beach and he has a flag here that says f joe biden. i said there are kids here. the chant is not patriotic. it is trollish. there is free speech, folks can do what they want. when members are congress are bringing that kind of language, you can't repair and talk about the need for civility and respecting a president when he's from your party. >> it is on the house floor. the guy is wearing a f joe biden mask on the house floor, it is just, you know -- >> i think we're so far past the point of what has been normal in the past. there are so many examples of things that in a pretrump world would have outraged anybody. people would have lost their positions, would have faced all kinds of consequences. that ship has sailed. we're in a post trump world and we are seeing the rules actively be redefined. >> it is not surprising perhaps.
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>> it is not surprising. >> just so gross, i guess. john avlon, maria, thank you so much to both of you. the new trillionaire in town, trillion, trillion dollars. >> talking about me, hopefully. >> i wish. i wish. no, tesla becoming the sixth company in u.s. history to reach a 13 figure valuation. 13 figures. the deal that put it over the edge. >> i can't even count to 13, let alone a trillion. a new plan by democrats perhaps to slide immigration reform into the spending bill. how realistic is this? stay with us. the new sensodyne repair and protect with deep repair has the science to show that the toothpaste goes deep inside the exposed dentin to help repair sensitive teeteth. my patients are able to have that quality of f life back. i recommend sensodyne repairir and protect with deep repair.
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so new details on the negotiations surrounding joe biden's legislative agenda. senator joe manchin saying he's optimistic that a framework for the social safety net package could be reached this week. but also that a sticking to his goals of the $1.5 trillion price tag. meanwhile, house progressive leader pramila jayapal, she says she wants both the social safety net package and the bipartisan
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infrastructure bill to actually pass at the same time, including the text of the social safety net package. joining us now is the senate democratic whip dick durbin of illinois. thank you for being with us. hoping you can give us an update on where things stand this morning. >> it is an anxious time on capitol hill, on the democratic side. we believe this week is really the deadline week for us to get the agreement, the basic agreement done that has been going on for literally months. we have so many important issues at stake here. i agree with joe manchin's observation, we are close to the finish line. the president is engaged completely in this. i think we can get it done this week. >> you can or do you think you will? what's the handicap now? >> i put can. because we're dealing with individuals who need to be sitting down with others and reaching agreement. we have tried in many different
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i was. ways. we're 90% there. we need to close the deal. we need to move on. there are other things we need to consider. >> whetre is the holdup specifically? >> the holdup, when dealing with a program over a trillion dollars and the exact figure is still in question, when you're dealing with a program that has so many changes it trying to help working families across america finally have affordable, quality day care, what a difference that will make in their lives. expanding the opportunity for education two additional years before kindergarten, these sorts of things are going to make a big difference in the lives of individuals and we want to get them right. >> one of the things i did not realize until i read it last night that was going on was that immigration, there is an effort among some democrats, you among them, to get immigration reform back in to this. how is that going to work? >> well it works because reconciliation, the process that we're following allows certain things to come in, and what we
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need to do is to make sure that we write it in a way that it qualifies for reconciliation. we're on our third attempt at it. why are we sticking with it? because we have not passed an immigration reform bill in over 30 years. it goes back to president ronald reagan. we have 11 million undocumented people in america. as far as i'm concerned they shouldn't live in fear that somebody is going to knock on the door, early in the morning, and all their family be spirited away. secondly, many of them are are working, some of them are being exploited. we ought to have the legal right to work and their obligation to pay their fair share of taxetaxes m. and third, they ought to be able to travel without fear they're going to be stopped some place and be diverted from their destination. i would like to have more path to citizenship, but these are the basic things we're talking about now. >> can you tell me exactly how this will be written to pass, you know, generally speaking, and then can you get this approved by the senate
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parliamentarian this week. you want this bill passed this week. is that going to happen? >> i can tell you, we can get it ready this week and pass it next week is probably a realistic goal. my fingers are crossed. sooner we can move to it, the better. if it be can done this week, it should be done this week. we're working, have been working nonstop on this immigration aspect of reconciliation for months now, it seems. i think we're close to the final decision as to whether we can go forward. >> is manchin on board with getting immigration in this? >> joe manchin voted for comprehensive immigration reform as a number of republicans did. he's as committed to that happening and i am too. i hope i can appeal to joe sure includes this. >> pramila jayapal said she wants want s to see the text of the big social spending plan.
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i know this is processing. i'm not sure even if you reach a broad agreement you'll have the actual text of the broader legislation this week, will you? >> that is a good question. i can't answer it. i can tell you in the past that sometimes when it is time to put pen to paper and traditional parlance it takes some time to get it right. i do believe in the process of negotiatinge ing many of these stlinthings have been prepared in anticipation we'll have an agreement. everybody wants to be sure of it. but it is going to take some heroic efforts at the staff level to get this done on time. i want to see it done on time. the american people deserve that. >> how are democrats addressing what are growing concerns among the american people, a, about the economy, b, about inflation and prices, just getting out of this pandemic? >> i wish the reporting would include the fact as a president said in his visit to new jersey,
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we're paying for this. what we're doing, a trillion dollars plus whatever it happens to be is being paid for. and we're doing it by changing the tax code and making sure those making over $400,000 a year are paying their fair share of taxes, along with corporations, which are immensely profitable and are not paying any federal taxes. >> i'm sorry, i don't mean to interrupt, do you know how you're paying for it at this point? that appears to be a sticking point. >> i've just given you two examples. that's what we're working on. a method to approach that that satisfies all the principles involved in this negotiation. but when i hear senator mcconnell and others come to the floor and say this is just adding to the deficit, they ignore the fact that the deficit grew by 36% under the previous president trump and they were voting right along with him without any question. and that we are paying for what we are doing in our negotiation today. >> concern over the deficit
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seems to be selective and sporadic among many politicians. dick durbin, i appreciate you being with us. always nice to see you. >> good to be with you. >> how did a loaded gun wind up in the hands of alec baldwin moments before he tragically shot and killed his cinematographer? new details about the crew may help explain it. the houston astros and the atlanta braves are about to face off tonight in the world series. a look at the history and the politics of the southern state showdown. your reality check is next.
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time for 5 things to know for your "new day." new revelations about the ill fated movie "rust". according to the wrap, crew members used prop guns with live ammo, a practice called plinking, just hours before halyna hutchins was killed. the report says one of the guns was later handed to alec baldwin who fired the shot that killed hutchins and injured the film's director. ceo mark zuckerberg firing back after a devastating document leak revealed how facebook profits off the spread of false information and relies on an algorithm that promotes fake news. zuckerberg claims there is a coordinated media effort to paint a false picture of facebook. police in boise are investigating a deadly shooting outside a shopping mall. two people were killed, four
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injured, including a police officer. the suspect was also wounded. no word yet on a possible motive. and first on cnn, the biden administration expected to name republican kim wyman to a key election security role in the department of homeland security. wyman is the secretary of state from washington state and she publicly challenged former president trump's lies about election fraud. tesla is now worth more than $1 trillion. shares set a record high on monday triggered by news that hertz is buying 100,000 teslas for the rental fleet. tesla joins the elite trillion dollar stock club with amazon, m microsoft, alphabet and apple. 5 things to know for your "new day." you have more on these stories all day on cnn and cnn.com and don't forget to download the 5 things podcast every morning, go to cnn.com/5things. if you don't count st. louis, which john avlon has chosen not to, this is the first
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world series between two southern teams. what does that say about the real divisions in this country? jack avalon back with a reality check. first it says that st. louis is not part of the south, as part of being part of missouri. the first game is tonight. it is a world series like none other. the atlanta braves facing the houston astros, it is the first all southern series. seems from two former confederate states competing for the championship of our national past time. but whatever red state hot takes you got, put them back in the oven. was most things inl life, stereotypes break down the closer you look at them. houston, the fourth largest city in the nation is majority minority. so is atlanta. so if you still cling to the idea that lilly white south, consider it the overall state of texas and georgia are almost
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evenly divided as the nonhispanic white population and the nonwhite population known as everyone else. in american politics, one most stubborn truisms is the solid south with a region solid conservative democrat from 1860 to 1960s and realigning to republicans after lyndon johnson signed the civil rights act. those fault lines shifting. barack obama flipped virginia in 2008. and georgia voted for joe biden. in texas, from 52% of the vote, biden swept all four of the lone star state's metro areas. the red state/blue state divisions of our politics are way too simplistic. dig an inch beneath the surface and you'll see the real differences aren't north versus south as much as urban versus rural. that's not a huge surprise to find that the counties that house houston and atlanta voted for biden over trump. but it might surprise you to learn that 15 of the largest 16 cities in the south voted for biden over trump, with oklahoma
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city being the sole exception. some of these were big wins, 2 to 1 for biden in nashville and charlotte. not only that, counties that contain iconic smaller cities in the south like charleston, savannah went for biden big time. the cities weyies went for hill clinton as well, but by smaller margins. which helps bust up another stereotype, that southern cities are voting democrat just because of their diversity. too much can be made of this demographic or destiny view of politics. for example, republicans won florida in 2020, while winning hispanic congressional seats in the miami area. and republicans also made gains in the hispanic heavy rio grande valley. in fact, the biggest mover for biden in 2020 were the suburbs. college educated white voters defected to democrats in droves leading to a flip of georgia. so what is the point of
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puttingputting this all out? it can give the impression that american culture changes when you cross the state line, particularly the mason dixon line. that's bs. in a time when our differences are violently exaggerated by social media platforms as well as politicians, all trying to profit from our polarization, even provoking some sick talk about a second civil war, it is really important to remember that there is still far more that unites us than divides us. that's where baseball comes in. it remains one of the great uniters in our nation. it connects the generations, combining individual and collective achievement, captured in statistics that allow the direct comparisons of players from different eras, it provokes intense competition and conversation, respect for the rules amid the good natured ribbing of rivalries, rooted in joy and disappointment that ripens over time into shared memory, a shared love of the game. that's a reflection of the best of america. transcending of tribe and tribalism and time, a lesson
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from sports that we need to relearn in the political arena right now. and that's your reality check. >> baseball does unite us because everyone hates the yankees. >> except me and most new yorkers, john berman. >> baseball, a uniting factor. >> i feel so torn here at this moment. >> go with the yankees. >> only one right answer says berman. >> thank you very much. >> okay. coronavirus is now the leading cause of death among law enforcement officers in the united states. so why are so many of them reluctant to get vaccinated? president biden tripling down against former president trump refusing again to block documents related to the capital insurrection. we'll have the latest on this showdown ahead. when did you see the sign? when i needed to jumpstart sales. build attendance for an event. help people find their way. fastsigns designed new directional signage. and got them back on track. get started at fastsigns.com.
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going to tell you about exciting medicare advantage plans that can provide broad coverage, and still may save you money on monthly premiums and prescription drugs. with original medicare, you're covered for hospital stays and doctor office visits. but you
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have to meet a deductible for each, and then you're still responsible for 20% of the cost. next, let's look at a medicare supplement plan. as you can see, they cover the same things as original medicare, and they also cover your medicare deductibles and co-insurance. but, they often have higher monthly premiums and no prescription drug coverage. now, let's take a look at humana's medicare advantage plans. with a humana medicare advantage plan, hospital stays, doctor office visits and your original medicare deductibles are covered. and of course, most humana medicare advantage plans include prescription drug coverage. in fact, in 2020 humana medicare advantage prescription drug plan members saved an estimated $8,400 on average on their prescription costs. most humana medicare advantage plans include a silversneakers fitness program at no extra cost. dental, vision and hearing coverage is included
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with most humana medicare advantage plans and, you get telehealth coverage with a $0 copay. you get all this for as low as a $0 monthly plan premium in many areas. and your doctor and hospital may already be a part of humana's large network. if you want the facts, call right now for the free decision guide from humana. there is no obligation, so call the number on your screen right now to see if your doctor is in our network, to find out if you can save on your prescriptions, and to get our free decision guide. humana, a more human way to healthcare.
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in big cities across america, police unions are pushing back on vaccine mandates leading to showdowns with elected officials. this is coming as covid-19 has become the leading cause of death among law enforcement. joining me now is former seattle police chief carmen best, she retired last year after the city council voted to cut the police budget by nearly $4 million, and she's also the author of the new book black and blue, lessons on leadership, breaking barriers and racial reconciliation." carmen, thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you, brianna, glad to be here. >> so many unions are resisting
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the vaccine mandate. the police have suffered so much when it comes to coronavirus. it is the leading cause of death for them, despite the fact that they were eligible early for the vaccine. what is going on here? >> yeah, we're experiencing what everyone across the nation is experiencing in some ways, rell h hesitancy among some to get the vaccination. it is surprising and disappointing in many ways that people are refusing to be vaccinated. officers put on a bulletproof vest and put on a lot of equipment to protect themselves and others, and so many of them have risked their lives on many occasions to help other people. so it is perplexing in many ways that this one thing that they can do to help save many, many lives, we have people refusing to do so. but policing is just a microcosm of society. so there are going to be people who have hesitancy. >> they take on a charge that many americans don't though. which is to protect and serve. >> exactly.
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>> are they putting their fellow officers and members of their community at potentially great risk by doing this? >> certainly potentially there is risk if people don't get the vaccination, which is why the mandate is here. so in many agencies they're already letting people go. at a time we need officers, crime is up, so we need law enforcement and it is unfortunate that, you know, this is a time when many of them are leaving the profession because they don't want to be vaccinated. >> i really wanted to get your perspective on something that is happening in one city in georgia, la grange, georgia, the police chief is starting a program that would have police officers shooting really to injure instead of at the center mass to kill, right in the case of certain risks, maybe it is someone holding a weapon that is not a gun. and this caused a lot of controversy. there are many police organizations that think this is
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a really bad idea. what do you think? >> i got to tell you, traditional thought is that if you pull out a weapon and you feel like there is a deadly force situation, that's what it is for, deadly force situation. if it is not a deadly force situation, you use a less lethal option that is available to you. using a deadly force tool for a nonlethal situation goes against the grain of traditional thought. more research on this, but certainly seems like there are other alternatives to pulling out a weapon if you don't -- if you're not faced with deadly force. >> do you think it is good to challenge traditional thought, though? is it important now to be thinking outside the box? >> absolutely important. especially as we have the cross hairs of so many issues in policing, from race to training to equipment, you know. you name it, there is a discussion about it, so it should always be challenged. but, you know, just logical thinking, if it is a deadly force situation, that's what your handgun is there for. if it is not a deadly force
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situation, why would you pull out a deadly force tool? >> tell me about your book. what is the message that you have after your long storied career in policing and leaving at such a pivotal time in policing? >> yeah, well, the book just goes through a lot of -- just like the title says, lessons on leadership, all of the issues around the riots and the demonstrations and the murder of george floyd, and what that meant, especially for a person like me, person of color, who really, you know, feels very connected to those issues, but also the support of law enforcement. i called a dichotomy. but i think there is a way to move together, to pull together, actually a book of hope, not of tragedy, but it takes you through a lot of the differen w. we had the pandemic, the organized protest zone, then we had the series of demonstrations and the defund police movement. and so there was a lot of issues where your leadership, my
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leadership was certainly challenged. and these issues were prevalent across the nation in many agencies. we lost almost 40 major city police chiefs since that time. >> including you. >> including me. >> it is a huge trend that we're seeing. it is so important. i think your book gives some ideas as to why. carmen, thank you so much. appreciate it. >> appreciate it. so look out young people. mark zuckerberg says you're about to become facebook's north star. the company's plan to win back its younger users. >> i believe children are the future. and beam me up for business. the big plans for an interstellar office park. the last day of vacation is still vacation. with guaranteed 4pm checkout at fine hotels + resorts properties. one of the many reasons you're with amex platinum.
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companies to build a commercial replacement for nasa's aging international space station. think of it like a business park in space. cnn's kristen fisher joins us live now. just what we all need is another business park. >> it is a standard real estate practice on earth. this is a natural evolution. business parks in space. this is being built as the very first one. it is called orbital reef. and the idea is to have companies from all over the world come together to conduct microgravity research, manufacturing, and, yes, of course, some space tourism in there as well. there are other commercial space station proposals out there. but what sets this one apart is it is a partnership of four big american space companies. it is led by blue origin and sierra space, red wire space is also a teammate. and boeing, the aerospace giant which had a hand in almost every nasa project, including the international space station. and that's why this is really so important right now.
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the international space station is old. it has been up there for about 20 years now. and it is going to be decommissioned likely in 2030 if not sooner. there was a hearing on capitol hill last week in which the witnesses expressed alarm that there was going to be this gap between when the space station had to be retired and when this commercial replacement was going to be ready. that's what this orbital reef as you can see there is going to be all about. they're hoping to have it ready by the time the space station, the international space station is retired. they say it could be ready by the latter half of this decade and, john, big picture here, this is also so important because china now has a brand-new space station, fully operational, up and running, and so nasa and the u.s. really want these commercial companies to provide the replacement for the government. >> all i can do is envision dwight shrute from "the office"
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up there working in the sky. >> there was a movie in space. there should be "the office" in space. >> no question about it. >> instead of saying your wfh, you would say you're wfs. >> right? >> kristin, thank you so much. really is interesting. cnn's coverage continues right now. very good tuesday morning to you. i'm jim sciutto. >> i'm erica hill. today is the day that many parents have been waiting for. an important first step, an fda advisory board is meeting right now, they'll decide whether to recommend authorizing pfizer's vaccine for 5 to 11-year-olds. this is just one step. we're going to take a closer look at the timeline for you including when your kids could potentially get that first shot just ahead. plus, facebook's ceo on defense once again.

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