tv Cuomo Prime Time CNN October 21, 2021 6:35pm-7:01pm PDT
senator manchin, with senator sinema, in a meeting in person with the key members of the house not to mention the leadership because that's how this is getting done. there has been criticism that i've heard, i'm sure you both have heard as well, especially from what we call the front liners here in washington, the moderate house democrats who are the most vulnerable in the mid term election, criticism that he hasn't been in a room with all sides of the democratic party on this. and what i have been told by people who are part of these negotiations is that that might not be happening but he's doing it in the way that he learned as a senator for 375 years or whatever he said. that seemed to be on display tonight. and the big goal that they had tonight at the white house was to turn all of this washington gobly gook into english and into policies that people can digest and understand and appreciate. that's the question about
whether or not he achieved that goal. >> i thought he did a good job with that, paul, subject to your comments. he has to learn to take a compliment a little better. people applaud, he stops them and says, no, i'm serious. no. but he was obviously trying to explain in simple lesson. but again, paul to the feel issue. somebody has to be to blame here. this is absurd that the democrats seem to be trying to steal defeat out of the jaw's of victory. they're going to get an infrastructure bill. that alone is going to be one of the biggest ticket items we've seen in a generation. it's right up there with obamacare in terms of money and different allocation to state. why is it okay to biden to not have an ounce of animus for sinema or manchin or schumer? >> i was struck by that, too. he said everybody is frustrated when they work in the government. that's the nature of democracy. he didn't show any frustration tonight.
and boy that must be so super human effort. he's been doing this a very long time, as he said. but the one criticism i would have, no that he didn't criticize sinema or manchin, he seems to have lost the thread of the threat. right? he didn't talk about how not a single republican supports paid family leave. not a single republican supports his idea of childcare or education or seniors getting cheaper prescription drugs. he left that out. now that's the hyperpartisan democrat in me is that i'm always looking for a way to bash the other side. that is not in his character. he really doesn't want to do that even if people like me would like that. >> dana, yes, i mentioned chuck schumer in there also because you know, when we talk about the republicans, it's all mcconnell, mcconnell, mcconnell. there is no talking about the senate without mcconnell. schumer has been a ghost in this process. now, is that because it's about biden or is it what i hear that at least when it comes to sinema and manchin, they don't care what schumer says. what's the read about who biden
can lean on to get this done? >> i don't know that chuck schumer has the greatest relationship with joe manchin or kyrsten sinema and it's probably fair to say that in the case of joe manchin in particular, he has a longer and a closer and a more trusting relationship with the now president that former senator joe biden than with a lot of people because he is kind of in that negotiator mode and that model that joe manchin very much likes, that can just kind of talk to each other. like let's cut out all the you know what and let's just talk to each other. what do you need to get there? let's do it. they have those conversations and i'm not sure that's where chuck schumer is in that relationship. but he hasn't really had the chance because -- he hasn't had to do it because that is what joe biden is doing. and it's oddly what nancy pelosi who works on the other side of
the capitol has been doing in a big way because she has that relationship with joe manchin. >> this has really been an interesting process for the democrats if you like inside baseball in terms of who is emerged and who isn't. a.o.c., not part of the process. big on social media but it's about jayapal, others not her. and pelosi big on both sides of the aisle. schumer nowhere. now, that's inside baseball. outside baseball is not a phrase but also dana a quick bounce question on it, sinema not being in favor of personal or corporate tax increases was not even a comma for president biden. he kept talking as if there was still a way to raise the revenue. which is what exactly? >> we don't know. that's a great question. >> why was he unfazed by it? >> that's a good question. i think the reason is because this wasn't -- this might have been a big news flash to us because she has holding her
cards so close to her vest but not the white house. and not the leadership, the people who have been negotiating with her on this particular issue. she is very likely and signals have been made to me and to other reporters very much that she has -- she's made this known to the white house. so they have been looking for other ways to pay for this for some time. it still is a tough one to swallow. we all know -- we've seen the applause lines at democratic events for the idea that corporate america or the wealthy americans should -- the wealthest should pay their fair share. that is very universally loved among democrats and even some independents and some republicans. i'm sure that's not easy for somebody like paul to let go of right now. >> well, also it's just feasibility. so how do you explain biden's comfort with this concept?
sinema is sticking it in her face. having fundraisers the exact same people she says she doesn't want to raise taxes on. there's no shame in her game. how do you raise money? that unpaid for tax cut which you all hated? >> i have no idea. senator sinema voted against that trump tax cut and most democrats did. i don't know why she wouldn't want to repeal the worst parts of that trump tax cut today. doesn't seem to me to be very consistent. but it is impressive that president biden was not at least tonight on air visibly annoyed by that at all. i can tell you as a matter of polling the cbs poll last week, 67% of americans think it's a good idea for the rich people to pay more in corporations. >> should he have been upset? >> i bet you he was in private. no. this is the thing. don't get mad. don't get even. just get your bill passed. whatever it takes to get the bill passed. this guy has been through the fires both personally and
professionally. this is not his first rodeo. man i thought every bit of that experience would come in handy. l lyndon johnson had 68. clinton had 57. obama had 59. this guy has 50. and he's trying something as big as has been tried in at least half a century. my hat is off to him. >> he doesn't really have 50. d dana, let me ask you something. >> he doesn't. that's right. >> he does not have control of 50 and the guy supposed to be in control isn't part of the process. the idea of the big fight, i think that if there is any list of regrets to be written by the democrats after the midterms, not putting voting rights at the top and really the only thing on their list may be there because i've never seen a bigger misplay honestly about something that matters this much. the filibuster is the key. manchin doesn't want to touch the filibuster.
anderson was correct in moving biden specifically on to that issue after a question. here is what he said on point. >> i also think we're going to have to move to the point where we fundamentally alter the filibuster. >> are you saying once you get this current agenda passed on spending and social programs, that you would be open to fundamentally altering the filibuster or doing away with -- or doing away with it? >> well that remains to be seen. exactly what that means in terms of fundamentally altering it, whether or not we just end the filibuster straight up. voting rights particularly is consequential. >> when it comes to voting rights, just so i'm clear though you would entertain the notion of doing away with the filibuster on that one issue, is that correct? >> and maybe more. >> thinking about it in realtime. walking around. anderson is trying to get his attention. it's manchin.
it's not we, we, we. there's no we, we, we. is there any indication, dana, that manchin got a message from the rebuff of his own retooled voting bill when none of his buddies on the other side of the aisle would even vote for debate? >> maybe. maybe. but not in the short-term because the president was very -- very clear, very candid in so many ways and this is one of the ones that was most striking to me about the fact that he just doesn't want to deal with voting rights until he gets this done. the argument that you made about the fact that voting rights could be and they could look back on this as a very big missed opportunity because nothing else matters unless people in these key states from georgia to texas to arizona and beyond have the ability to not just go to the polls in a way that is not restrictive but to make sure that the votes that
they cast are not overturned. and so, that is such an important issue. and joe manchin has been lobbied non-stop on this issue. and it is a very big open question whether or not, as you said, because the compromise bill that he says he put forward got no republican support at all earlier this week. once this -- these two bills are done, whether or not that is going to change in terms of approach, you can bet that from the activists out there to constituents of every other democrat and people who talk to the white house constantly that that is going to be a big, big priority. i just want to say i think i said earlier that kyrsten sinema they're not going to raise taxes at all, i meant to say -- they're not going to raise the rates not necessarily taxes on wealthy. people who are wealthy will likely see their taxes go up. >> well, it's also going to be -- i think one of the work arounds while we were talking
about this somebody texted me, don't forget enforcement. as joe biden, as president biden pointed out tonight, paul begala, and thank you for drawing the distinction, dana, the top x number of corporations he knew the number, i don't, paid 0 in taxes, enforcement is what matters. not really the rate. the rate is irrelevant if nobody pays it. because he's in a little bit of a slip, as part of your finishing thought, paul, do you believe that the next set of polls after tonight shows some type of bounce for him? >> no, not until he gets his package through. no. he has to have the signing ceremony in the rose garden. i think he will. tonight he showed us he's part down the field than perhaps we thought. but i don't think you can fake that kind of optimism. i think that he's making real progress. and it's pretty impressive the guy who has been locked in a room with professional legislatures for the last several weeks can walk in a room with ordinary citizens, with
teachers and nurses and firefighters and speak to them just like average joe. so i thought that was a pretty impressive bifurcation that biden encompasses. >> paul begala, dana bash. the bannon contempt vote on the hill. instructive as always to see which republicans choose to uphold the rule of law. none. right? wrong. nine. nine, does that matter? yeah. why? because the dynamic on that side that we're going to discuss. anybody who steps out of line is basically taking a risks with everything. what does that mean? we're going to take you to a key house player, member of the january 6th committee, that bannon is accused of defying. next.
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committee. nine republicans voted with the democrats to hold bannon in criminal contempt of congress. frankly more than i expected. what does it mean? let's bring in a member of the january 6th committee. good to have you, congressman. >> good to be with you, chris. >> so merrick garland was keeping it close to the vest. what will the outcome be? do you think he'll bring charges himself, go to a grand jury or neither? >> well, a federal law says that upon certification by the speaker and after we pass this successful bipartisan vote the speaker will certify and it will go to the u.s. attorney for the district of columbia where they have a duty, and the federal law specifically mentions that, a duty to bring it before a grand jury. and so that's our expectation is that they will do just that, and this was a victory for the rule of law. and if we follow the law, then
that will be the end result. >> it will be quicker if he just does a felony warrant on his own or just does his own charges, which you can do in other matters. is he not allowed to do that? is the duty a must, or is it a must to do something? >> well, they always maintain their prosecutorial discretion but the law specifically says duty. so our expectation they'll do that and bring it before a grand jury. what people need to understand is this a pursuit of the truth. whatever vehicle is used, whatever tools that we can use or that the department of justice seeks to use, the committee is open to that. we don't bring any -- there's no joy in bringing this contempt citation. we just want to get to the facts. and the american public deserve that, and clearly a bipartisan group of members in the house believe the same thing. >> time matters and message matters. what happens if bannon doesn't
wind up getting prosecuted and nothing happens to him? what do you think that does to your ability to get anybody to speak to you? >> we'll cross those bridges, you know, when we get there. we hope that's not the case, but i can tell you from an investigative standpoint we continue to have productive interviews and conversations with people who are fact witnesses and who know things about the planning of the january 5th and january 6th rallies, the planning, the funding, the execution of those events. we're having those good conversations and we're making significant progress. and so that obviously is helped by the more people who come forward and many have and the more voices that we hear. and that's why it's so important we have mr. bannon on the record because he's the one who said all hell was going to break loose on january 6th. he's the one that said these things, and so we need to make sure we ask him questions and hold him accountable for what he said and to find out who in government and out of government knew about the events.
>> quickly before i let you go. i know you're very busy. in terms of what you've learned about what you're up against, when you hear the minority leader in the house, mccarthy, say this is not a legitimate subpoena of steve bannon because you have these privilege issues when he knows that the privilege issues are weak sauce at best, what does that mean in terms of what you're really up against here? >> well, it means that, unfortunately, you know, the big lie continues. and that people even in very high positions in government continue to foment that. and that's -- that's difficult. but, you know, clearly this was a vote today to proceed democrats and republicans seeking to get to the truth. congress spoke loudly and clearly. that's exactly what we're going to do. it doesn't matter what the -- what the minority leader says we're going to continue the pursuit to get to the truth here. >> congressman pete aguilar,
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big night for the president, chance on a big platform to look at the american people, hear their questions and give them confidence that he can get it done at a time that confidence in him is flagging. did he get it done? our first take on the big show, don lemon tonight and its big star d. lemon who was ranting and raving about how weak they are. how was he tonight, don lemon? did he meet your muster? >> not that he meet my muster, but he should do more of this. i have always said on the record in this exchange and on the program, these are good venues for him because he is a human being. he can explain things. sometime he gets, you know, a little too in the weeds, right? very big on details tonight. and he usually does that, right? because i think he should continue to do these b