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tv   State of the Union with Jake Tapper and Dana Bash  CNN  October 17, 2021 6:00am-7:00am PDT

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backed up, with negotiations at a standstill in congress and supply chain shortages hurting the economic recovery, does the biden administration need to change course? transportation secretary pete buttigieg joins me next. plus, lock them up? the house january 6 investigation has a choice to make as key trump allies say they will not cooperate. >> i hope that the committee goes after them and holds them
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accountable. >> are claharges coming? i will ask one of two republicans on that committee, adam kinzinger. he is back. six years after leaving "the daily show" jon stewart has a new show and a lot to say. >> i still believe this is an experiment worth having. feel good! >> our interview and why he still has hope for america ahead. ♪ hello. i'm jake tapper in washington where the state of our union is watching president biden's problems mount. the president is out fine tuning his sales pitch for an economic agenda. his party still cannot agree on. democrats are scrambling for alternatives after joe manchin appeared to kill the cornerstone climate policy in the party's social safety net package. democrats try to sell their
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spending plans. the biden administration neetds to calm fears over inflation and a supply chain nightmare that could get worse, plunging our nation's ports, railroads, trucks and infrastructure workers deeper into crisis just in time for the holidays. joining us now is secretary of transportation pete buttigieg. thanks for joining us. we are seeing supply chain disruption causing everything from higher prices to longer waits for products. these supply chain disruptions, quote, will get worse before they get better, unquote. do americans need to prepare ourselves for this to get worse before it gets better? >> certainly, a lot of the challenges that we have been experiencing this year will continue into next year. but there are both short-term and long-term steps that we can take to do something about it. part of what's happening isn't
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just the supply side, it's the demand side. demand is off the charts. retail sales are through the roof. if you think about those images of ships, for example, waiting at anchor on the west coast, every one of those ships is full of record amounts of goods that americans are buying, because demand is up, because income is up, because the president has successfully guided this economy out of the teeth of a terrifying recession. now the issue is, even though our ports are handling more than they ever have, record amounts of goods coming through, our supply chains can't keep up. of course, our supply chains -- that's a complicated system that is mostly in private hands and rightly so. our role is to be an honest broker, bring together all of the players, secure commitments and get solutions that will make it easier. >> many american companies, especially small businesses, as you note, are struggling to cope. one possible solution, president biden lifting former president
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trump's tariffs on china to try to provide some relief. that's not a panacea, but it could provide some relief. will president biden do that? will he list ft those tariffs? >> every idea is being taken seriously. what we're doing right now is to focus on the operations themselves. a lot of americans might be surprised to learn our ports have not generally operated on a 24/7 basis. we have secured commitments to change that. the president announced that the ports of l.a. and long beach -- long beach was piloting this for a few weeks. collectively, those two ports are 40% of our container traffic. they're now going 24/7. that's not a simple thing to do overnight, but it was a big commitment. we have to make sure that works its way through the chain. it's not just the gate of the port. it's getting those containers on a chassis, getting them to where they need to be and that goes to other issues in our supply chain like the availability of truckers. we are taking steps on that.
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my department working with state dmvs to speed the issuing of cdls, the commercial driver's licenses, to get more qualified, safe truckers on the road. there are a lot of steps we're taking to address this in the short-term, but at risk of repeating myself on something i have been talking about and the president has been talking about one year, this is why we need to pass the infrastructure bill. there is $17 billion in the plan for ports alone. we need to deal with the long-term issues that have made us vulnerable to these kinds of bottlenecks when there are demand fluctuations, shocks and disruptions like the ones that have been caused by the pandemic. >> secretary buttigieg, that $17 billion for ports in the infrastructure bill, that passed the senate more than two months ago. it's sitting in the house. house progressives are not going to vote for it unless they get a successful vote on the larger social safety net bill. are you frustrated by that d
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delay? do you think that was a mistake for progressives to demand this other legislation be voted on before the infrastructure bill? >>l the reality is, america nees both of those pieces of legislation, not only to make sure we have the right kind of infrastructure, but to make sure that life gets better in this country for people trying to raise children. >> but only one of the bills is ready now. >> obviously, we need both of them to be ready to get to the president's desk and to be signed. earlier you cited moody's, the wall street firm. one thing that's not talked about enough is their finding about how the overall build back better vision is designed to reduce inflationary pressures. if you care about inflation, you ought to care about not just the supply chain issues, not just the infrastructure things i work on, but also the provisions in build back better like paid family leave, like making it easier to afford childcare, like community college, that are going to give us a stronger
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labor force and help us deal with that major constraint on economic growth. >> given the supply chain issues, given the fact that you don't see this ending -- this problem ending any time in the next week or two, would it be wise for americans to do their holiday shopping perhaps a little earlier this year? or would that exacerbate the problem? >> look, i think obviously, every family makes its own preparations for christmas. what i know for sure -- or the other holidays. the holidays are going to be better this year than they were last year, because a year ago millions of americans were sliding into poverty who now have jobs. a year ago, a lot of us were gathering with loved ones over a screen. it's going to be different this year because of the president's leadership, because of being able to get more and more americans vaccinated and make that available free to every american. those are just a couple of the reasons why we can expect a much better holiday season this year
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than we were facing a year ago. >> a key climate change for policies in the democrats' social safety net bill, clean electricity will be dropped because joe manchin says he can't support it. you supported a clean electricity standard during your campaign. how disappointed are you that this potentially will not be in the bill? >> look, the administration and the president are committed to bold climate action. exactly what legislative form that takes is what's being negotiated right now. the bottom line is, we have to act on climate for the good of our children and by way for the good of our economy. i view this as kind of like a planetary maintenance issue. the longer you take to do something about it, the more it's going to cost in livelihoods as well as lives. we need to act. the president has led on this literally from day one, rejoining the paris climate accord. while my piece of it -- the piece i work on most in
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transportation is a specific limited piece, it's a big one when it comes to making it more affordable and easy to drive electric vehicles in this country and dealing with carbon and other sector s of transportation. >> this is the first time you have been on the show since you and your husband welcomed twins into your family. you just returned from paternity leave, which congress is debating right now. some conservatives have been citing your experience in an effort to mock the very idea of paternity leave. take a listen. >> pete buttigieg has been on leave from his job since august after adopting a child. paternity leave they call it. trying to figure out how to breast feed. no word on how that went. >> what's your response? >> as you might imagine, we are bottle feeding and doing it at all hours of the day and night. i'm not going to apologize to tucker er carlson or anyone elo
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taking care of our premature twins. the work we are doing is joyful, fulfilling, important work, it's important work and it's work that every american ought to be able to do whethern they welcom new child into their family. i campaigned on that. so did the president. by the way, we are pretty much the only country left that doesn't have some kind of national policy for paid leave. i think it's us and new guinea. it's part time to make it possible for every american, mother and father, to take care of their children when a new child arrived in the family. >> we are thrilled for your family. we are happy that paerental leae is a reality for so many in the u.s. looking back, why didn't you or the department of transportation make an official announcement when you went on parental leave? why did you not appoint an acting secretary while you were
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away? >> the way this works is there's a deputy secretary, polly trottenburg, who is doing phenomenal work and can fill in when a secretary is not available. even though i'm on paternity leave, given the nature of my job, when you take a job like mine, you understand and accept that you will have to be available 24/7 depending on what's going on. you will have to engage. i did, even if that meant taking a phone call or making a decision from a hospital room. i am so thankful for the phenomenal work my colleagues at the department of transportation have done and are doing. and i'm thankful to be part of an administration that's walking the walk on family values. >> congratulations again. you have ability to love that you didn't know you had before. thank you for being here and congratulations. >> already am. thank you. nobody is off limits.
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will the january 6 select committee subpoena former president trump? one of only two republicans on that committee is here. six years after leaving "the daily show," jon stewart is back on the air. >> my name is jon stewart. i have been away from television for some time. this is what i look like now. >> our conversation with jon stewart is just ahead. stay with us. a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service the way you need it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪
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priceline works with top hotels, to save you up to 60%. these are all great. and when you get a big deal... you feel like a big deal. ♪ priceline. every trip is a big deal. welcome back to "state of the union. president biden weighing in on the january 6 committee. the panel this week taking critical steps to hold trump disciple steve bannon in criminal contempt of congress.
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who will the committee go after next? one of two republicans on the house select committee, adam kinzinger, joins me now. i do want to ask you about this breaking news overnight that gang members in haiti kidnapped 17 american missionaries, who are originally from ohio, including three children, as the missionaries were returning from an orphanage. you are on the house foreign affairs committee. what should the u.s. do to rescue these kidnapped americans? >> first and foremost, pray for them. se second, we need to track down where they are and see if negotiations without paying ransom are possible or whatever we need to on a military or police front. i think probably everybody watching -- i guess everybody knows somebody who has been a
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missionary. >> let's turn to the january 6 committee. i want to take a listen to what president biden said on friday. >> what's your mressage to peope who defy congressional subpoenas? >> i hope the committee goes after them and holds them accountable. >> should they be prosecuted? >> yes. >> the justice department later clarified that they would make their decisions based only on the law and on the facts. do you think it's appropriate for president biden to say that? does it make your job on the committee more difficult? >> i think it's appropriate. the president has every right to signal. i think he has every right to make it clear where the administration stands. god knows, the prior administration every two hours was trying to signal to the justice department. that had to do with other pretty horrific things. i think the president has made it clear we need answers to this.
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i think the shavast majority of americans agree. this is the first shot over the bow. it's very real. don't think that you are going to be able to just kind of walk away and we're going to forget about you. we are not. >> you and bennie thompson would not rule out a subpoena for president trump. do you think you can do a thorough investigation without subpoenaing president trump -- former president trump? >> i don't know. i think if i had that answer now, i would probably go in and not be able to see all the pieces. what we really want to do is make sure we are getting every piece of this puzzle. that's people that have come and talked to us. it's going to include people that we will subpoena in the future whose name you have probably never heard of who have good incentives to come in and talk. that begins to put the building
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blocks together. just speaking quite honestly, if we subpoena all of a sudden the former president, we know that's going to become kind of a circus. that's not necessarily something we want to do up front. if he has information we need, we will. this is not -- jake, here is the thing. this isn't about necessarily getting answers for tomorrow and hoping that the people that believe the insurrection was really some antifa false flag thing are going to believe it. when i think about what we are doing, i think in terms of i hope we can change minds tomorrow after we get the report sometime in the future. but this is about the ten-year argument. what are our kids going to think when they read the history books? who is going to win that argument? i have believed since i have been a kid that truth needs to win out. >> i know you are worried about protecting democracy. you have been outspoken. you have opposed both bills from the democratic party that are intended to strengthen protection for voters, john
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lewis voting rights act, reinstating the justice department's power to block some states and localities from enacting discriminatory voting rules. why did you not support those bills? is there a bipartisan effort that you and other republicans could get behind that could actually protect the rights of voters and get through the house and senate for president biden to sign? >> i certainly hope there is. i think there is. there's been discussions in the senate from last i have heard. you can call a bill the voting rights act and then left wing twitter goes nuts, by the way, and they can say you voted against voting rights without looking into the details. the quick details, the voting rights act in the mid '60s came out with preclearance which required certain states to get clearance for any changes. that went on. it was intended to be temporary. in 2013, the u.s. supreme court said, history changes. we can't keep pretending like
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it's 1965. for the last eight years, we have not had that provision. the jon lewis john lewis votin would have that provision to have the justice department make any approval to any changes. that would have been the trump justice department and anything like that. yes, we can get to a solution. the problem is, i admonish my side all the time about playing politics. the democrats have to quit playing politics on some of this, too. you can call it the for the people act, which was the other one, and what that is is public funding for campaigns among other host of things. if we went into this as adults with real discussions, i think we can solve stuff. instead, we wait for the twitter comments of adam voted against whatever and i can put a bill out there and see people vote against that and say they are against god and puppies. >> there was a rally in support of glen youngkin in virginia.
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it was announced there was an american flag carriedyiyied at rally with trump. what was your reaction to that? >> 100% disgusted. i wasn't surprised when i heard it, which is sad. it was disgusting. mr. youngkin did a good job denouncing it. it took him a while to do it. let's be clear to everybody involved in anything like that, if you bring a january 6 insurrection flag, boo the person bringing it and say the pledge to a flag that didn't fly that day. >> youngkin called it weird. what's jon stewart been bottling up in the six years he was off a regular gig. i will ask him next. hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪
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we find ourselves in an absurd place where minor sacrifices to preserve freedom now lead to violent backlash because they think it's leading to hitler. is our democracy robust enough to withstand a freedom without definition or a fear of a future hitler that won't allow us to take even minor steps to stop a current slaughter? >> welcome back to "state of the union." that was jon stewart with a clip from his new show "the problem with jon stewart" which apple tv plus boasts is its most viewed unscripted series ever. after stepping out of the spotlight for just a few
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eventful years in american and around the world, jon stewart is back with a new tone and a new mission. joining me now, jon stewart. thanks for joining us. your last episode of "the daily s show" was in 2015. between then and now, there have been two presidential elections, two impeachments, a global pandemic, an insurrection. was it frustrating to watch all of this play out without it being your job to weigh in? >> it was -- you know, i never really -- the job was a nice way of going in and kind of working through all those things. you know, i didn't miss the idea of having to comment on it on television. but i used to really enjoy going in in the morning with a group of smart, funny people and just talking about everything that was going on. it was just sort of a weird sort of old people sitting at a
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counter at a lunch place just talking about the day. so i miss that part of it. you know, it was like we had -- in one of the early shows, i think one of the audience members said, you missed so much over the past six years. i said, i was alive. i did see it. i had to wear a mask like everybody else during the pandemic. i experienced these things, i just didn't have a television show by which to comment on it. >> the most recent episode of your show tackles the idea of freedom and democracy in the united states and worldwide. you had these activists on your show from egypt and venezuela and philippines to talk about the guardrails of democracy. one of the things you asked them was if they think that americans who are worried about the erosion of democracy, whether we are, you, me, others are hyperventilating too much.
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what do you think? were you reassured by what they had to say? >> well, to some extent, i was. i think in general, americans have a view of the country similar to that -- to the classic new yorker poster of new york city versus the rest of the country. it's bracing sometimes to hear the reality of people's lives in other countries as -- it's not to say that warning signs don't exist or bells aren't going off or that democracy is a birth right and it is something that will always be with us as a kind of sash that we wear having been crowned the greatest democracy. but it did remind us that we have a long way to go before we end up in those situations. and it's kind of like watching a fable where you realize -- the
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end of "a christmas story," it's christmas day, we still have time. unfortunately, the messiness of democracy is often maybe one of its greatest weak points. we talk about protecting it in a way -- i remember there was -- it was always the hyperventilating over, donald trump is not normal, he is violating the hatch act. i don't know what hatch you speak of. people generally want prosperity and security. if a democratic system is having difficulty providing that or if it's being subverted by those who want to create chaos so that they can make a more a authoritarian government, that's part of it, too. nothing is guaranteed like that. the encouraging thing is
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watching on a grass-roots level, people that are really viewing it as something that they want to protect and that they want to strengthen. working on those things on the ground. >> as somebody who worries about democracy every day, i do appreciate your conveying of optimism right now. but we have a majority of the republican voters out there who think that -- falsely the election was stolen and who think it's an integral part of defining themselves as a republican to say that donald trump had the election stolen from him. this is not only not going away, this misinformation, big lie, you know, flirtation with autocracy, it's getting worse. >> that's the worst bedtime story i have ever heard. you can fret about it or you can go about strengthening those areas. i think that's -- the call to action here is, you know, action
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is the antithesis of anxiety. if we have identified the pressure points where the guardrails look most vulnerable, that's where we should be focusing so much of our efforts in terms of strengthening. we're adjusting to a new information and political ecosystem. and it's going to -- it's going to be rocky. >> it felt like there used to be a sense of shame that existed to a degree about these sorts of mistruths or lies or disinf disinformation. maybe i'm being naive. maybe i'm nostalgic. >> you are being naive. >> maybe i am. maybe i am. it did feel like there was a time where if somebody's rhetoric -- like donald trump's rhetoric going after journalists or democratic politicians or
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whatever, created somebody who was literally sending pipe bombs to news organizations, to politicians, that that would create a sense of shame and responsibility, and that politician would tone it down. we are way beyond that. nobody cares anymore. there's no incentive structure that's built -- other than if -- if shame doesn't exist. >> the consequence is loss of power. it's always been that way. violence is part of our national heritage. we had a civil war, for god sakes. when the rhetoric gets to a certain point and the other side has been treated like enemies of the state, then it makes sense. my point is only that i don't think that dynamic is different. it's that the delivery system is more sophisticated, more robust and more ubiquitous.
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so it helps radicalize in a faster way or a deeper way. we have algorithms that make sure that if you are starting to lean toward something bad that you have to go -- everybody just dips their toe into radicalism and then the algorithm says, you like that video. i've got a four-hour manifesto you've got to see. we have created a machine that makes that kind of radicalization more efficient. >> you were talking a second ago about identifying the weak points in the guardrails of democracy. it's also obvious -- i know you have spoken about this in the past -- that donald trump has also identified those weak points. he is now endorsing candidates for secretary of state in battleground states, candidates who are all in on the big lie in arizona. >> i think we make a mistake focusing this all on donald
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trump as though he is -- i don't know, magnito and some incredible super villain that has changed the nature and temperature of the united states. he has just been an effective vessel. again, he is not singing new songs. this is something -- he is maybe singing them better than goldwater. but i think it's a mistake to focus it all on this one individual and not to focus it more on the idea that power is its own reward, whether it be in the financial industry or in government. power doesn't cede itself. unless we can figure out a better way to balance that power for, you know -- for workers and
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voters and different groups, we will be vulnerable. you know, i don't know that autocracy is purely the domain of donald trump. i think that we all have a bit of a tendency to be like -- to grand amnesty to people that are doing things that we would prefer, even if that means they are slightly undemocratic. there's many times where i think to myself, just do an executive order, for god sake, just get it done! you know? i think our focus unhealthily on this one individual comes at the price of systems and dynamics that have been in place long before this cat ever learned how to surf those waves. >> i think that what's going on is it turns out -- we learned a lot of this in recent decades, but especially maybe the last four or five years because donald trump was so disruptive and so willing to challenge
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norms, we have learned that a lot of the american system is built on the honor system. that only works, of course, if you care about or even have a sense of honor. i know that you are not so much concerned about an autocracy taking root as you are in the minority party figuring out how to rule despite the fact that they do not enjoy majority support. >> i think there's always been the danger that a minority of voices would have a majority of power. in a lot of ways, that's baked into the way that the system was created and enacted. and i don't -- i just think in general coming up with remedies to that have proven to be really difficult, because the larger issue is, you know, we have elevated money and corporate
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power to this one level. we have diminished sort of pure democratic power to another level. and we are wildly out of balance. that's an awfully oprah-esque way of putting the threat to the republic. but i just -- jake, we are irregular. i think we're irregular right now. we need democratic fiber to help ourselves. >> that's not to say that you are not worried about what's going to happen in 2024. >> i'm worried about everything. >> right. >> i'm constantly -- of course. i'm a human being. i try to maintain a certain level of optimism, which i do, i think. but, yeah, i'm -- when you can see a train coming at you this far away, yeah, you keep thinking, is anybody going to -- are we going to put -- is anybody -- are we putting a thing up or we're just going to
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let it -- just going to hit? that's going to be the end of it? boy, power doesn't ever cede itself. it's a difficult -- it's a difficult thing to balance. >> stay right there. more coming up in our conversation with jon stewart. his take on why democrats can't seem to get out of their own way. that's next. arket... when they got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service the way you need it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ ♪ you probably think visa is a credit card company, huh? ♪ but it's actually a network. ♪ connecting just about everyone to just about everyone else. ♪ it can open eyes with a cup of coffee and change minds on what makes a business, a business. and it is working to connect everyone, everywhere. so, meet visa.
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welcome back to "state of the union." i'm jake tapper. here is more of our conversation with jon stewart. it has been nine months since joe biden took office. do you think he is leading the nation with the urgency you are
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calling for? >> i don't think anybody is. i don't think -- i think mostly the urgency that the nation is calling for comes from the outside of washington. first of all, it's an overwhelming gig, clearly. we have gotten to a point that tons of the positions that you would normally need to function aren't even filled anymore. at a certain point, it feels like this country -- you ever go into a deli at 9:30 and you want a sandwich and you walk in and they are wrapping all the stuff, can i get a sandwich? no. you are open until 11:00. yeah, yeah, but, no sandwiches. you have a sandwich shop. we are done making sandwiches. in some respects, that's what it feels like.
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they have come up with an awful lot of good ideas, i think. i'm hoping some get implemented. but it's hard to believe in the process of them getting implemented, especially when you've got one group who basically, their entire governing ethos is government is the enemy unless we control it. so if you control the government, we will do everything we can to make sure that it doesn't work so that we can run advertisements saying government doesn't work until we take control of it and then we get to do whatever we want. it's pretty cynical. >> there's a debate in the democratic party about how to appeal to voters in 2022. there are a lot of social issues getting a lot of attention. governor newsom in california signed a law requiring gender neutral toy sections in stores. there's obviously a lot of debate across the country. not all of it well informed.
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about critical race theory and how race is taught in schools. do you have concerns about how these debates are taking place? obviously, i'm not talking about how they are depicted in right wing media. it doesn't matter what the democrats do or liberals do for right wing media to lie about it. there are many who might not understand what's going on. >> yeah. i mean, there are a lot of things a lot of people don't understand. something is either right and common sense -- i do think there are ways to accomplish some of these goals in ways that -- you can't govern to the lowest common denominator. you can't -- i think -- one of the difficulties -- again, it's with the way that the lens through which you view everything is based on and what will that mean for the midterms
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or -- i saw a great headline in "politico" as afghanistan was falling into chaos in the final week. the headline -- this is the top line headline, the one with the 40 point font, whatever it was. it said, "why afghanistan may not matter in the midterms." and then "and why it might." >> they have a point. >> but that's our journalism, right, man? isn't that -- how many times have you seen stories about the battle over masks, the karen yelling in the store and the people throwing them out and all that? how many stories have we seen about the efficacy of masks or the why or the actual -- there are some. but the overwhelming majority of
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stories seek to expose the conflict lines. >> do you think it's all about the media? there isn't anything to the degree that sometimes activists on the left risk alienating a culture instead of educating and then bringing people in? that's one of the criticisms -- >> there job isn't to educate necessarily. i'm uncomfortable with certain activism that feels performative. a lot of times it's not helpful. if your goal is to create a change there, sometimes that performative activism isn't particularly helpful. in the scheme of things, it gets people's attention. if the follow-up to that conversation is fruitful, it can be really effective. but i don't generally think that the problem in democratic politics lies with activists.
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i just don't think that that's a fair assessment of what's wrong with democratic politics. >> you think that it's -- that democratic politicians don't deliver enough to the people that they were elected to represent? is that more accurate? >> i think that their ability sometimes to respond in kind with smart and competent programs 'is probably a bigger problem. everybody wants to talk a lot about that yes, i can't remember what you said, gender neutral. >> it's a law the governor just passed and signed into law. >> honestly, who gives a shit? in terms of the running of california, it's a law -- it
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reminds me, somebody said to me they were upset the other day, is things had gotten so out of hand, demi lovato wanted to be referred to as he this, that was the pronoun demi lovato wanted to use and it's out of hand. i got good news for you then, you don't know demi lovato so you will never have to be in this situation. so whatever pronoun you use in conversation, she will be fine because you don't know demi lovato. and if you ever did meet demi lovato and used the wrong pronoun, i'm sure she would be like oh, i prefer this, and it would be done. but in the media, that story is ubiquitous. i think the media does a terrible job at de-escalation. and de-escalation is the antidote to all of this nonsense. i don't mean civility and
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nonpartisanship, i mean focusing on things that are more urgent and elemental in people's lives, and really hammering away at those things. >> yeah. >> the purely emotional fault lines that occur in society. we just wanted to do a show about burn pits -- >> right. >> -- and why it was the people who fought for this country weren't getting the health care and benefits they earned all because there are bureaucratic processes in place that were pretending sleeping next to ten-acre pits filled with hazardous materials burning with jet fuel wouldn't give you diseases. >> now that you've done a show about it and talked to the secretary of energy affairs dennis mcdonough, and it was a great episode and you interviewed great american
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heroes, but also you came face to face with somebody, dennis mcdonough, whole while well meaning, could not give you an answer why he couldn't just okay these complaints, these filings from veterans who now have diseases that almost certainly they caught it because they were sleeping next to this toxic cloud for a year in iraq or afghanistan. coming face to face with it, what was that like? >> i mean, what you come face to face with is the reality of the stasis and the reality of money and reality of bureaucratic processes that are not necessarily in place to usher in better care and service for wounded veterans. but are in place to protect a status quo where it functions more like an insurance company.
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and so what i find illuminating about those conversations is kind of going back to the conversation we had earlier, about the fragile points in a democracy, right? well, once you can identify where the bottleneck is or what the obstacle is, then you've got a fighting chance at being able to overcome it in a way that accomplishes the goals or at least improves the goals that you're trying to -- that you're trying to achieve. >> the last time i interviewed you, you said you always had hope for america and you still seem to be hopeful, but a lot has happened since then, the big lie, the insurrection, the worse days of the pandemic, there are a lot of people out there for whom it probably seems very dark out there at times. a lot of people out there might feel despair, not hope for the future because of the pandemic,
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because of the state of american democracy, because of the threats to american democracy. where does your hope come from? >> perspective, context. from realizing it's not supposed to be street line to progress, it never has been. there's ebb and flow and you take steps back, but we've come through -- you know, i was of age in the '60s. my first memories of martin luther king jr. and robert kennedy being killed. so we are a complicated people, and it's a complicated story in america. and we like to to mythologize it because it makes us more
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comfortable but to be on ptimisc that fair-minded people working together can make incremental progress over time, and that ain't nothing. and that real people making real decisions can change things, and overwhelmingly i still believe that this is an experiment worth having and admittedly the country feels right now that it's in kind of a joint custody arrangement. sometimes you stay with dad, sometimes you stay with mom and we go through it, but why wouldn't you optimistic? name another time you'd rather be alive? i can't think of one. and, yeah, is social media annoying? yes. would i rather be alive in the '40s? no. this is -- think of the opportunities -- have you met
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younger people? some of them are brilliant. >> yeah, they're great. >> great stuff. >> they're pretty great. >> there are geniuses out there too and we have to deal with their nonsense but for the most part, everyone is doing the best they can, and there's a lot of really powerful energy and vitality being put towards trying to make stuff better. so i prefer to think that they will be triumphant but it's not a fait accompli, that we're not guaranteed anything. there's not a society where you're promised to be made feel together but if you can try, it can be done! how can you not feel good after
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that? >> i do, i feel good! the show is "the problem with jon stewart" and it's on apple tv plus. jon, it's always great to have you. thank you very much. >> so great to talk to you. >> fareed zakaria is next. like you, my hands are everything to me. but i was diagnosed with dupuytren's contracture. and it got to the point where things i took for granted got tougher to do. thought surgery was my only option. turns out i was wrong. so when a hand specialist told me about nonsurgical treatments, it was a total game changer. like you, my hands have a lot more to do. learn more at factsonhand.com today. ♪ ♪ your new pharmacy is here.
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and here. and here, too. it's here to help you save time and money and trips to the pharmacy. it's here to get you the medication you need when you need it. who knew it could be this easy? your new pharmacy is amazon pharmacy. this is "gps," the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. today on the program, the supermarket bill is higher than it used to be. the car you want isn't available tl at the local deepership. and service at you

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