tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN October 15, 2021 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
good evening. this has been a big week in the pursuit of justice for the january 6th attack on the u.s. capitol. there is new video just released by the justice department of the attack on the capitol. this first video shows what is one of the first breaches of the capitol. video shows more than a dozen climbing through that window. the second video also captures a breach of the building. you see people rushing through a door and marauding down a hallway. then a new angle of the confrontation with officer eugene goodman. you can also hear this. >> hey, where the [ bleep ]!
>> they want to know where the lawmakers are who are counting the votes. their intentions, clearly, not good. and not peaceful and anyone who tells you differently is lying. this new video comes during a week that's seen folks on opposing sides of the attack swear off and looking at this new video, it remains remarkable and frankly pretty sickening that there are actually oh he posing sides on what happened that day. on one side, you have those who worked for the former president reportedly either avoiding getting served with a subpoena or using delaying tactics to appear. and so far, at least one, steve bannon, has defied a subpoena deadline. on the other side, you have the house select committee investigating the attack. committee says it will take its first steps infect week to try
and bring criminal contempt charges against bannon. they say others who could face the same -- could face the same if they don't cooperate. and from the white house, there is breaking news tonight. the president telling cnn's kaitlan collins that those who refuse subpoenas should be prosecuted by the department of justice. and we'll talk to kaitlan, in a moment. before we do, more news about january 6th. for the first time, we learned today capitol police officer is facing criminal charges in connection to the insurrection and its aftermath. u.s. capitol police officer michael riley appeared in federal court this afternoon on obstruction of justice charges. prosecutors say that riley, who is a 25-year veteran of the force, told a rioter to delete incriminating social media posts. according to the indictment, riley exchanged several facebook messages with this rioter following the attack. including this one, saying quote, i'm a capitol police officer who agrees with your political stance. take down the part about being in the building. they are currently investigating, and everyone who was in the building is going to be charged. just looking out. cnn's jessica schneider joins us now from capitol hill.
so what more do we know about this officer and these charges? >> reporter: well, anderson, so these are two counts of obstruction. each carrying a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison each. the first count is for this officer allegedly instructing the rioter to delete all these facebook posts from his feed. essentially, tipping him off that there was an fbi investigation. the second count goes to this capitol police officer michelangelo riley deleting his own interactions with this rioter trying to take them all off his social media page. now, this indictment details more than a dozen messages between this officer and the rioter. at one point this officer tells the rioter this: they are arresting dozens of people a day. everyone that was in the building, engaged in violent acts or destruction of property and they are all being charged
federally with felonies. so sending out this warning shot to the rioter. well, it turns out, this rioter was arrested on january 19th. and then, the very next day, the rioter got in touch with officer riley telling him they -- he had basically spilled the beans to the fbi. had showed them all of these messages. and what does officer riley allegedly do? well, he turns around and then deletes all of these interactions on his facebook post -- his facebook page, anderson. and that is what is leading to this second charge of
obstruction here. >> wow. jessica schneider, fascinating. i appreciate it. thank you now, to cnn's kaitlan collins at the white house for more on what the president said to her about those who defy the january 6th committee's subpoenas. so what exactly did the president say? >> well, it's notable, anderson, because the white house, so far, has declined to really weigh in on this. saying it's up to the justice department how they are going to proceed with this because we do know when that select committee gets back to washington next week, they are expected to vote on these criminal contempt charges for steve bannon after he said he was going to defy their subpoenas. so we asked the president tonight, what is his response to this? what does he think of people who are defying these subpoenas? and should the justice department prosecute them? and this is what he told us. >> i hope that the committee goes after them, and holds them accountable criminally. >> should they be prosecuted by the justice department? >> i do, yes. >> now, what's notable about that is, of course, is not just the president weighing in. what he thinks the repercussions should be for people like steve bannon who are defying these subpoenas and others who may do so as well. but also, the white house says they operate independently from the justice department. so a justice department spokesperson has responded to the president's comments to me tonight and they said the department of justice will make its own independent decision and all prosecutions based solely on the facts and the law.
period, full stop. so, asserting that they will make their own decisions over what's going to happen. once we do see the house vote next week because, of course, anderson, after that, it goes to the justice department. but i think just looking back and taking a step back at what the president said tonight, it speaks to the level of the uniqueness with which he is viewing the situation. because, of course, remember, he also made the decision in part with white house counsel to not assert executive privilege over those documents that his predecessor wanted shielded from this committee. that is a fight that's likely to play out over the next several weeks and i just think it speaks to the level of involvement that the president has here. and what he thinks is the urgency when it comes to this january-6th investigation. >> kaitlan collins, appreciate it. joining us right now, democratic congressman jamie raskin. a member of the house select committee investigating the january 6th attack. he also served as lead manager in the second impeachment trial of the former president. congressman raskin, appreciate you being with us. i am wondering, first of all, your reaction to president biden weighing in on this. obviously, the justice
department is saying it's going to quote make its own independent decisions as they should on any prosecutions. >> look. the first thing he said was that the committee should aggressively enforce our right to get people's testimony and to get the documents we've subpoenaed. and there's no problem with that. i also don't have a problem with him as a citizen like me saying he hopes the department of justice will aggressively enforce the law so people don't get away with committing crimes like this. um, obviously, four years of donald trump has made everybody a little bit rusty in terms of executive branch relationships with the president and law enforcement and the department of justice. and i don't think he was telling the department of justice what to do. but um, they will make their own decision. and we have confidence that the attorney general will do the right thing and doj will make
the right -- >> has the white house been in contact with your committee? and has the white house counsel been involved in the engagement with former-chief of staff mark meadows or other administration officials to determine to what degree they can testify without violating any kind of executive privilege? >> well, let's see. i'm not quite sure i -- i got your whole question there. i -- >> has -- has -- has the white house been in contact with your committee and been involved with the discussions with mark meadows or others? >> no, i'm not aware of that. um, look. what -- what we're doing -- our committee is charged with assembling a complete and comprehensive documentary record that explains what happened to us on january 6th. who were the criminal elements that attacked the u.s. congress? who tried to overthrow the election? what were the motivations behind it? how did they work? who paid for it and so on? so we're in the process of collecting all that information. most people have been very cooperative. people are coming forward. even some people who would
prefer not to cooperate have engaged with the committee. and then, we've got those like steve bannon who are taking their lead from donald trump, and think that they are just above the law. and they're the only citizens of the united states who don't have to respond to a subpoena from a court or from the u.s. congress. and so, that's why we are going to be meeting on tuesday evening. and there will be, i predict, a criminal referral. we're going to try to charge these people with criminal contempt. that's a crime when steve bannon did not show up when he was told to show up with documents and to testify before the u.s. congress. >> there are a lot of people who have weighed in saying that they think, you know, this could -- bannon could -- it can go out of the courts. it can drag on for -- for years. longer than this committee will -- will be in session. do you agree with that? or do you believe that this will -- could move fast? >> no, if the department of justice acts like a real department of justice, and i think they will as, you know,
they just reminded the president that they're going to make their own decisions based on the facts and the law. i think they're serious about their job. i think if they do their job -- and i have confidence that attorney general garland will do his job -- they will move for criminal prosecution of people who are openly flouting in order of the u.s. congress to come and testify on an issue that may be the most important question of an attack on the u.s. government since the civil war or the war of 1812. and when you see that footage, you understand what's at stake. there was an attempt to mobilize violence against the congress, to attack members of congress,
to attack the vice president of the united states. all, in order to overthrow a presidential election result. that was the first time, anderson, in u.s. history when the counting of electoral college votes was delayed by four or five hours because of this coordinated assault, both, an inside assault against the vice president, and then this massive violent mob attack. >> just finally, i am wondering what you make of this capitol police officer now indicted on obstruction of justice charges for being in contact with a rioter and advising him to delete evidence and allegedly according to authorities, him, himself, deleting also evidence. >> i don't know anything about the underlying facts. it's an eye-popping story, of course. as the chair of the civil rights and civil liberties subcommittee oversight committee. when we found out our son had autism, his future became my focus. lavender baths calmed him. so we made a plan to turn bath time into a business.
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kaitlan collins that those who refuse subpoenas from the january 6th committee should be prosecuted by the department of justice. and as we noted, the committee will take their first steps next week on criminal contempt charges against steve bannon for refusing to comply with his subpoena. he seemingly had a heavy hand on that day, and leading up to it. you may have thought after he was fired from his white house job, that he moved on. well, the reality is very different. here is cnn's tom tomorrow. foreman. >> reporter: he is not ready to speak to congress about the violence of january 6th. but steve bannon is talking plenty on his daily podcast, whipping his followers into a frenzy. >> elections have consequences. stolen elections have catastrophic consequences and that is what he we are seeing in this country rye not and we need your blood to boil. we need to be in a situation you are not going to back down. okay? >> reporter: he's done it all along. he appeared to confirm reports that just days before the insurrection, he was on the phone with donald trump discussing how to kill the biden presidency in the crib.
>> 42% of the american people -- 4-2% of the american people -- think that biden did not win the presidency legitimately. we told you from the very beginning, just expose it. just expose it. never back down, never give up and this thing will implode. >> reporter: promoting the big lie of election fraud fits bannon's long standing affection for radical right-wing theories and his apparent appetite for conflict. >> if you think they are going to give you your country back without a fight, you are sadly mistaken. >> reporter: take his fascination with the book "the fourth turning" which argues every 80 years or so, cataclysmic upheavals are necessary to political and social realignment. >> every turning is necessary. >> reporter: bannon was so taken with the idea, he made a movie about it. savaging liberals, blasting traditional government, and as one film critic put it, pushing a clear message. >> bring on the apocalypse. there is an almost fetishistic desire to see everything blow
up. it's almost like he is inviting a cleansing fire to -- to just raise the edifice, raise the institutions. i think it's that dramatic. >> steve bannon is here. >> reporter: bannon's turns in the spotlight have not always thrilled his most famous boss who was reportedly annoyed when bannon showed up on the cover of "time" which trump clearly craves. he was pushed out of trump's immediate orbit, but never far away. >> i would love to know what advice you would give to donald trump if he didn't leave even after he lost because i saw hillary clinton -- >> you are obsessed with this. >> i am obsessed with it. >> wait a second. wait a second. because he is an insane narcissist. >> reporter: and since the uprising, bannon has been firmly in the losing candidate's corner. trotting out guests to insist it was the work of antifa and undercover federal agents.
>> 226 antifa members were tasked with making that -- what should have been a peaceful protest a riot. >> reporter: and insisting prosecutors are dead wrong to say these are trump's and his people. >> either they are totally incompetent or they're lying to you, right? they're either totally incompetent or they are lying to you. pick 'em. >> there are no facts to back that up. but listen to bannon's podcast. watch his interviews, and you will see that he has very little use for facts unless they back this notion that america as we know it must end so america as he would have it can begin. anderson. >> tom foreman, thanks. perspective now from cnn political analyst and "new york times" washington correspondent, maggie haberman. so, maggie, bannon's talking about the white house with the former president was short lived. no one ever seems does no matter how egregious their -- their crimes.
their alleged crimes. where do you see this all going with him? >> i think that where it may go is he is going to file some kind of a lawsuit or someone will file some kind of a lawsuit, possibly the former president, to try to raise the question of whether executive privilege would apply to bannon. now, there is not -- actually, not a lot of case law on this. just a common sense reading of the law looks at it as bannon was not working in the executive chamber when this event happened. he was not a formal adviser to trump in the white house. so why would executive privilege apply to him? i think they are going to try, at least at the moment, to try to test that theory of -- of -- of the legal case and see whether they can get a more expansive version of executive privilege. beyond that, i don't expect much to change. and then, the question, anderson, becomes as it always has for the last five years, is the doj going to do something or are they going to move? if not, bannon is sort of going to wave this around like a bloody shirt and a, look, you know, they shot at me and missed.
>> even if the doj does move and, you know, there is a question of, a, how long would it take? how long, then, would any kind of subsequent court case take? um, he could still wear -- you know, even if it's a misdemeanor or whatever the charge is, he would still wear that as -- you know, as a promotion of his podcast or whatever he is marketing himself as now. >> no question. this is all -- this all feeds into a commercialization of, you know, this -- this form of trumpism that is taking place on podcasts and taking place on certain networks. you know, which is all about rallying around trump's false claims that there was widespread fraud in the election that cost him the election, and suggesting that everything else that has taken place is illegitimate. that january 6th, you know, either didn't happen the way
everyone saw it happen on -- on television. it played out in real-time. or that, you know, there were actors or there were agitators and so forth and so on. agitators, not actors. you know, i think that you will see him doing more of that. there is something of a scenario here, right, where, you know, bannon is essentially acting as if heads, he wins. tails, you lose. and this is what happens when you very slowly start to pull away guardrails and you start to erode norms. you don't end up here overnight but you do end up here. >> what are you hearing about the former president in terms of running, not running, his comments this week about republicans skipping out on the '22 and '24 elections? is this just him, you know ranting in the fever swamp of mar-a-lago? is it him ratcheting up pressure on the gop to just help him? what is it? >> i think it's a little of the above but i don't think this has anything to do with him running, anderson, or not running. at the moment, you know, according to everything i hear, i think he is running.
could that change? absolutely. and maybe, he doesn't. but at the -- if the election -- even if the election were in a few months or if he had to make a decision today, i think his decision would be to run. i think that statement he put out suggesting that republicans should make election fraud, as he puts it, a central issue for 2022 or 2024. um, and saying don't vote. you know, if -- if that's not the case, obviously, that made a lot of senior republicans groan when they saw this. this is the kind of thing he did ahead of the georgia's runoffs earlier this year for the senate. the republicans lost both those seats. they are very concerned about a repeat of this. that particular statement was, you know, trump railing and -- and -- and being, you know, enabled by somebody who works for him. most people around trump know that that statement wasn't helpful but there are still a few people willing to put that kind ever thing out. >> but i mean, if he runs, that is clearly what he runs on.
and everybody in the gop who is running as well is going to have to -- you know, we already saw chuck grassley last night kind of tiptoeing through hoops to try to avoid, you know, repeating what he said in the immediate aftermath of the insurrection which was very negative against trump. he's now completely unwilling to -- to publicly utter those words, again. >> that's right. and look. we're at a point where, you know, chuck grassley, for instance, is running for election again. he has been in his seat a very long time. republicans who are looking to win in 2022 are certainly looking to avoid incurring trump's wrath on this. and i have been saying for a while that 2023 and 2024 or both democrats and republicans is going to be a huge focus in those two years on certifying the next presidential election. i think you will see trump trying to point to this. i don't think that it's going to motivate voters the way that he thinks it is. and then, that becomes a different issue. >> maggie haberman, appreciate it. thank you. coming up, new audio revealing texas school officials. ed lavandera in texas with this story next. fast sinus relief.
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across america, school officials and parents have been clashing over what should and shouldn't be taught in the classroom. much of the focus has been on critical-race theory. in texas, there is fallout tied to another education law that took effect last month on race and racism. recently, in one school district, an administrator told teachers how to follow that state law and as an example, said when teaching about the holocaust, they had to give students books with opposing perspectives on the holocaust.
cnn's ed lavandera reports. >> being told to get rid of your library, or opposing viewpoints on what they called controversial subjects. >> reporter: to tell this story, this school teacher says she has to speak out under the cover of secrecy. she says she fears never being able to get a job as an educator, again. >> teachers are actively getting threats if they are speaking out at this point. threats to destroy their lives, to come for their license. to -- um -- go after their families. >> reporter: last week, carole independent school district administrators in the suburb of south lake, texas, held training sessions laying out the guidelines teachers needed to follow to pick the books for their classroom libraries. at the heart of what unfolded during these sessions is a controversial new state law that tries to control how racial issues and history are taught in
schools across texas. the law states that if a teacher engages in a discussion of a controversial issue of public policy or social affairs, they're required to explore such issues from diverse and contending perspectives. part of the training was recorded by a teacher. >> just try to remember the concepts of 3979 and make sure that it -- it -- if you have a book on the holocaust, that you have one that has opposing -- >> how do you oppose the holocaust? >> in that audio recording, you hear this administrator say this absurd idea that there should be an opposing view of the holocaust taught. when you heard that, what was your reaction? >> it's almost like a joke. like, i don't even -- what -- what would an opposing view of the holocaust be? we are not asked to have opposing views on colonization. we're not being asked to have opposing views on christopher columbus day or thanksgiving. we're being asked to have opposing views on only certain things and that's where the problem lies, really. >> what are those certain things that you are being asked to have opposing views on? >> civil rights movement.
holocaust. um, the civil war. slavery. women's rights. >> reporter: the school administrator in the meeting had tried to ease the frustrations and anger of the teachers. >> you are professionals. we hired you as professionals. we trust you with our children. so if you think the book is okay, then let's go with it. and whatever happens, we will fight it together. >> reporter: the school district's superintendent apologized for any hurt and confusion this has caused adding there are not two sides of the holocaust and that the district is working to add clarity to the expectations for teachers. but in south lake, finding clarity has been impossible since the controversial texas law went into effect. several teachers who have spoken to cnn say a group of conservative and highly organized parents are the driving force of this controversy. pushing school administrators to limit discussions on racial and
social justice issues. >> it's very sad, the situation that we're in right now. >> reporter: russell maryland is a longtime south lake resident. his three children have gone to schools here. the former dallas cowboys defensive lineman has spent the last three years working with dozen of other parents to depend develop a diversity curriculum for the city's schools. >> the world is changing. the city is changing. and unfortunately, you have a set of people in this town that are fearful of the change. and what do the fearful do? they instill fear. >> reporter: the council's efforts have gone nowhere. maryland says the latest south lake school controversy is embarrassing. >> it's just the ridiculous of it is just incredible. but it's happening. it's happening here in our community. as a warning to everybody out there, if you don't stand up right now, then that ignorance is coming to a town close to
you. >> what do you think is driving this push to control how these issues are taught in classrooms? >> fear and ignorance. i'm sure it's racism, too. but it's fear and ignorance and i keep saying this. i hope this is the catalyst for change in our district. that this changes. we can't continue to go on this way. we have to make a change. we cannot continue to be ignorant, and behave this way. we are beginning to feel like children of divorce. like, we have these two sides fighting and we're becoming collateral damage. >> ed lavandera joins us now. what are some of the lawmakers who supported the texas law saying about this what happened in south lake? >> well, most of the republicans who supported this law haven't really spoken out publicly about what's happening here in south lake. there is one state senator from this area who did say that he believed the school district applied this law incorrectly to this situation. but this is exactly what the
teachers we've spoken with -- to -- with and educators are saying is that this law is so vaguely written, that it is putting these teachers in such a precarious situation. they feel like they are being fed to the wolves. and that they are teaching in a chilling and dystopian reality right now. anderson. >> ed lavandera, appreciate it. thanks. some much-needed lighter coming up. no longer legendary for his role as captain kirk and a lifetime of epic performances. he is also now officially one of my favorite people to talk to. not exactly even sure why but my conversation with william shatner after he traveled to the final frontier, next. feel stuck with credit card debt? move to sofi and feel what it's like to get your money right. ♪ move your high-interest debt to a sofi personal loan. you could save with low rates and no fees. earn $10 just for viewing your rate and get your money right.
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this week, as you no doubt know by now, legendary actor william shatner became the oldest person ever to travel to space. >> two, one. >> shatner was one of four passengers aboard the second human flight of the new shepherd spacecraft, the one developed by jeff bezos's rocket company blue origin. i had the pleasure of speaking to him before he left, and also when he came back to earth and
the significance of his historic flight was sinking in. here is our conversation that first aired today for my streaming show, "full circle." >> can you just talk about, a, how are you feeling now? and how do you feel now looking back on -- on the experience? >> well, um, i've been doing publicity today because i agreed to do it. and -- and it was an extraordinary event and i'm very happy to -- to tell what i'm -- what -- what -- what i experienced. but it's like telling 17 friends about your love affair. you know, by the time you -- by the time you get to your 15th friend -- >> yeah, i know. >> -- listen, i met this girl. [ laughter ] >> you know what? and i am -- i am -- you know what? and i am really sorry to be the
17th because -- because i am -- let me just tell you -- okay, go -- but -- go ahead. >> you're very -- you're very special. >> that's what they all say. it's not true. i'm just number 17. >> but if you last long enough at 17, that's your whole life. >> but okay. well, let me just say the -- the thing that interests me most about what you said is about death and about the ripping away of the blue sky. and the sudden blackness, and you said is that -- is that death? is that what death is? and i just -- i just thought that was such an original, interesting take on it. nobody else would have had that -- that -- >> it was. it was. it was exactly that. i -- i have a new album out called "bill." and i bring it up not only to say i got an album out there. but because i met in new york with the two gentlemen -- rob the poet and dan miller of -- one of the things he
accomplished was they might be giants so these are award-winning musicians. and part of the dinner conversation was let's put out a single with bill and what he was -- what he experiences up three or four days before i went up, what -- what's going to -- so i said, you know, it's a little, blue orb. and we had kind of a thing going, what it was going to be like. i called rob -- this beautiful poet/lyricist -- when i came down. and i said everything we talked about at dinner in new york, throw it out. it has nothing to do with the reality. the reality is it's passion. there's loud sounds. nothing they trained us with acquainted us with the loud sounds, the -- the loud -- the intense -- the -- the noise, the sound, the sudden quiet as everything stopped. and when everything stopped and we went weightless, there are no
words in the english language to describe weightlessness because nobody's done it. so how do you describe, well, i was weightless? your -- your skin -- your hands -- nothing -- it's so unfamiliar, there's no english word or any word, for that matter, that can explain what it is s. it's just weird. it's frightening. it's strange. it's interesting. and that was wonderful but i was focused literally and -- and figuratively on that window. because i want to see what would happen and what happened was this. the air skin around earth is approximately 50 miles thick. at 2,500 miles an hour, that's a couple of beats and you're through it. i saw the -- the whole in the atmosphere as we went through it and it was like a bullet. it went right by it. as my eye followed it, it hit
black space. now, the universe is beyond interesting. beyond mesmerizing. it -- it -- it -- it's -- the total -- in that moment, the sun shining in my face. all it was palpable blackness. ugly, evil, om -- ominous blackness. and my mind went to that and i was hit in the face with that. and then, i was hit in the face with the beauty and the gentleness and the nurturing of the earth. and i saw death, and i saw life for me as well as for the earth. and i felt such sadness, empathy, sorrow, for the earth. the earth is less bright than it used to be, apparently. and -- and i know that the death and destruction that's going on. one species -- millions of
species are disappearing. the beauty of the earth that fostered all this gorgeous stuff. this intricate gorgeousness of life is disappearing and it will disappear. at least we, as witnesses, will disappear. and i wept for that, too. and when i landed, i was so filled with that emotion of life and death of everything and the sorrow for the -- for the planet. i was overwhelmed and it took me 15, 20 minutes before i could recapture myself. and even today after telling it to 17 lovers, i have -- i -- i -- i feel the message. >> it is. it's really just an honor to talk to you. really, i have always been a fan but really am just an admirer now. and i really think you're -- you're awesome. and seriously, anything i -- you ever need, i will -- if you ever
need, like, somebody to pick up some takeout for you, i will pick up some takeout for you. >> thank you so much. be careful of what you take out. it's a pleasure to -- to know you. and i -- i -- i'm an admirer of yours. >> and by the way, number 18 is not going to be nearly as fun. i don't know who it is but, you know? >> i've -- i'm never going to go to a number 18. >> william shatner, take care. >> thank you. same to you. bye-bye. incomparable. william shatner. that first aired this afternoon on my streaming show full circle which airs live 6:00 p.m., monday, wednesday, and friday at cnn.com/fullcircle. still ahead, we are following breaking news in the january 6th investigation of the riot at the capitol. plus, never before seen video and interviews from an incredibly powerful documentary that takes you inside the attack. that's next. every feeling. a product of mastery. get 1.9% apr financing on the 2021 es 350.
♪ i see trees of green ♪ ♪ red roses too ♪ ♪ i see them bloom for me and you ♪ (music) ♪ so i think to myself ♪ ♪ oh what a wonderful world ♪ we're following breaking news in the investigation into the january 6 riot at the capitol. tonight president biden told cnn's kaitlan collins that those who refuse to testify for the
committee should be prosecuted by the department of justice. we're also getting a new look at the chaos and terror of that day. a new documentary is called if four hours at the capitol" and it shows minute by minute what it was like for lawmakers and staffers inside the building and what the law enforcement officers were up against. >> they were throwing punches, hitting officers with poles and pieces of scaffolding that they had taken off the inaugural stage. there was hammers. i remember at one point a gun actually fell out of one of the individuals in the crowd. of course i didn't have anywhere to put it. i had a long trench coat. the entire day of fighting, i had that person's personal gun inside my trench coat the entire day. i think if we had more weapons, there would have been a large loss of life, maybe on both sides.
>> the hbo documentary film "four hours at the capitol" debuts october 20. i spoke with its producer, dan reed, earlier. dan, this film you made is remarkable as are many of the films you've done. it takes you into it in a way in an is just relentless. and the more resolve of it is -- you know, the reality of it and the horror of it comes out so, so clearly. and it's so important, given that the former president and, you know, his acolytes are trying to pretend it didn't happen that way. >> yeah, i think the contrast between some of the statements made, you know, after january 6 and the really brutal hand to hand, almost medieval combat, the reality of, you know, cops fingers torn off and cops getting pretty much almost murdered by the mob, i think that's pretty stark.
you know, this was a very violent assault. and 140 cops were injured. and one later died, as you know. but just the reality that the video footage shows, and this was like the most videoed event in history, probably. there's no doubt, the record leaves no doubt how violent and brutal this assault was. >> i want to play a clip from the film that you've released exclusively to us, where a staffer to nancy pelosi details her experiences while hiding. >> are they going to torture up, am i going to get raped, am i going to get shot, like do they have weapons? and then they started banging on our door. and they just didn't get in. like, i still don't know how they didn't.
but they didn't. again, maybe they just didn't think it was worth trying to open, because it looks like there's nothing back there. like, i thought i was going to die. i didn't think i was going to go home that day. i knew if i texted my parents that i loved them, i was going to cry, and i just -- i couldn't. i wasn't going to let myself cry. i just figured, you know what, if i'm going to die, my parents know i love them. so this is why i didn't text them. >> the randomness of survival in a situation like that, it's terrifying how arbitrary it can be, who lives, who dies, who gets injured, who doesn't. that person banging on the door three times and then deciding to move on with the rest of his friends and other people who
were invading the capitol, had three people decided to join him and bang on the door together and gotten something and banged through the door, there's no telling what would have happened. >> yeah, i think this came very close to being a bloodbath. and a couple of the officers that we had exclusive interviews with described how they restrained themselves from using their firearms because they knew that once shooting started, there would probably be high casualties on both sides. and, you know, the restraint of the law enforcement officers is extraordinary. you can think of eugene goodman, one of the heroes of the day, with his hand on his pistol, you know, and being threatened with all sorts of bloodcurdling
threats and, you know, actions, and he still didn't draw his gun and he still didn't fire. i think the restraint of law enforcement on that day, for all that the capitol police were clearly completely unprepared, they displayed extraordinary restraint and i think that resulted in far fewer casualties than could have otherwise been. >> dan reed, i really appreciate what you've done, and thanks for your time. >> thank you very much. that does it for this edition of "360." stay with us for the latest on the manhunt for brian laundrie, coming up after this break. c, you can act quickly. that's decision tech, only from fidelity. imagine having someone else do your books for you. as your quickbooks live bookkeeper, i'll categorize expenses, reconcile accounts, and close your books. cool. - yep. know where your business stands. intuit quickbooks live bookkeeping. in 2016, i was working at the amazon warehouse when my brother passed away.