tv Don Lemon Tonight CNN October 14, 2021 12:00am-1:00am PDT
tonight, the biden white house formally rejecting a request by the previous administration to assert executive privilege over documents sought by the house select committee investigating the deadly insurrection on january 6th. president biden moving to unclog the supply chain bottleneck crisis that led to short takes shortages of goods across the country and jon gruden may be gone over racist and homophobic emails but is the nfl full of grudens? a lot to discuss this hour. i want to bring in john harwood, legal analyst elliott williams. been a long time. john is here all the time. where you been, brother? >> you know how to find me.
you don't call, you don't write, come on, don. >> well, you're back now. >> here we are. >> since that i'll start with john. john -- [ laughter ] >> it's official steve bannon is defying the select committee subpoena. what are you hearing how they will respond? >> i think they will get tough, don. the indications we have are that the select committee is going to not waste time and go quickly to criminal contempt citations and count on the justice department to prosecute them, enforce them and i think what we're seeing from the biden administration both in this decision by not to invoke executive privilege and also the signals they sent to the committee that they are likely to move ahead with enforcing contempt citations. the justice department and biden administration may not want to move ahead in cases on their own, that they're given the gravity of the situation that
unfolded on january 6th. they're going to be very forward leaning in terms of supporting the select committee and i think that's good news for people that want to get to the bottom of what happened. >> elliott, bannon's lawyers say they are waiting for the executive privilege issue to be resolved and in a statement write in part that is an issue between the committee and president trump's counsel and mr. bannon is not required to respond at this time. does he have a legal leg to stand on? >> he doesn't. to be clear when you look at the four different witnesses we'll see over the next two days, two of them and particularly one in the form of mark meadows actually have a little legal leg to stand on. these white house chief of staff, he would likely have had some privilege conversations with the president, right? steve bannon was a white house employee or lawyer and didn't work there for years. he was a political aid to the president. the idea that he somehow is shielded by executive privilege
meant to protect conversations that the president has with the senior staff is foolish and he's trying to get around it. now, the two things that can happen, number one this idea of criminal contempt that would file a civil suit and make clear to steve bannon it's a valid subpoena and he ought to adhere to it. >> so okay. so then is that the recourse there if the committee moves toward as criminal contempt charge, do you expect merrick garland to approve it and again, how does that work? >> look, at our peril, we try to assume what people might do. the way it would work is congress will just approve making a referral to congress -- to the justice department for prosecution for criminal contempt and again, they can also file a civil suit in the federal court in washington d.c.
and then it's up to the justice department to decide whether to pursue it. look, i'm certain that even if they're not talking, which they probably wouldn't be now, the justice department is at least thinking about how to proceed on this question. this is a huge public interest to at least not consider what will happen if tomorrow at 12:01 a.m. steve bannon does not show up, the justice department ought to be prepared to know how they're going to proceed. >> the select committee subpoenaed jeffrey clark. there's been a lot of reporting about his role in trump's attempts to overturn the election. tell us about him. >> jeffrey clark is the trump stooge who was installed at the trump justice department number three position. wrote a letter attempting to get the justice department to declare that it found evidence of voter fraud as a means of
forestalling the certification of the electoral votes. jeffrey rosen, the acting attorney general refused to sign that letter. trump also had an idea of replacing rosen with jeffrey clark. ultimately, it didn't work and as is the case throughout this attempted coup, a select number of officials with integrity stood up and did not go along with the plan but jeffrey clark by all the evidence that we've seen so far was not one of those people. he was trying to affect the trump's attempt to overturn the results in key states, overturn the results of the election and that's why the select committee wants so much to talk to him. >> elliott, congressman adam schiff is a member of the january 6th select committee. he spoke to wolf earlier today about what they are trying to uncover. here it is. >> i think really the big black box in all of this is what was
the president's role? we know some of the things about what the president did certainly in propagating the big lie before that day and what he did at the rally that day but what was going on at the white house? what did he know in advance of january 6th who was coming to the rally, the presence of white nationalist groups and propensity for violence. why didn't reinforcements come in to protect the capitol more quickly? that's the biggest unknown. what was the president doing, what were the people around him doing? >> so then how does the committee get to the bottom of these crucial questions? >> look, they're doing this quite effectively. i believe as of right now, they issued with today's subpoena, they're around 19 or so and they're getting at it from different ways. look, the two justice department figures that we're talking about here, rosen and clark, that's incredibly valuable testimony for establishing what the law enforcement response would have been on that day and i note that jeffrey rosen testified today
for or met with the committee today for i believe over eight hours providing background. there is at least a templet for a senior justice department official. you're talking to deputy chief of staff, some of the organizers of the rally bringing in members of congress that they might have spoken to. some saying that the organizers of the rally saying they've spoken with congressman mo brooks and others. that's how you build an investigation. you look at things not just going for the big fish, which you may never get. that's the reality of building these things but talk to people around him, people related and so on. so even if not everybody comes in to testify and it doesn't always happen that they do, there is plenty of other avenues to building a very fruitful and very productive report here. >> elliott, john, thank you very much. appreciate it gents. i want to bring in mitch landrieu, the former democratic mayor of new orleans.
good to see you, sir. all good? >> hey, my friend. yeah, everything is great. how are you doing? >> i'm doing very well. let's talk about this. so president biden taking some hits. his domestic agenda hangs in the balance and the party factions aren't coming together. are democrats on the brink of blowing it when they control the senate, the house, and the white house? >> a couple things to think about. four years ago donald trump was president of these united states and he immediately enacted a tax cut that went to billionaires and millionaires and here we are in a position where we control the presidency, house and senate and have a historic opportunity in front of us. remember, for the last nine months, every one of the republicans in the senate, all 50 have been against everything investing in infrastructure and jobs and climate and seems like the democrats are on the verge of something historic so i think we need to learn how to take yes and get on with it. my grandma used to say a prayer. she'd say god give me patience
but could you please hurry the hell up? that's the feeling of people in america losing the intra party fight democrats are having now. i think my suggestion if i might respectfully say to them is get it done because failure is not an option. >> you said it more respectfully than i've been saying it in this show. listen, they need fire and urgency and backbone especially in the -- they need to realize the moment we're in right now. listen, read the room as they always say. read the room. go on, what? >> well, what i was going to say, i know people don't really understand that the filler buster and the way the fill you are -- filibuster works, right now people outside of washington on the ground want to get back to work. they want to have roads and bridges. they want clean water. they want help with daycare. they understand that the climate, there is a critical problem for the future of the
country and they want something done. i would say to my fellow democrats who have a legitimate and difficult discussion at the end of the day, you got to land the plane and we don't have that much more time available because 2 american people sent us there to do a job. we understand it's difficult. everybody knew that when we ran for office but at the end of the day, we have to make it happen. sooner rather than later is the call of the day now. we're nine months into this. the president has a lot on his plate with afghanistan and the immigration crisis and covid and stuff swirling around but at the end of the day, building back better was the mantra and i don't think failure is an option. i would suggest they get in the room, hammer it out and land the plane. >> listen, i just -- if you can give me a quick response. i'll move on and talk about what is happening with the supply chain and all that. are they -- are they just not the democrats that self-aware? are they too myopic they're in
the weeds and in the seeing the bigger more urgent more pressing picture or task that should be at stake? >> well, i think there are well intentioned people fighting hard for the things they believe in but i would suggest to all of them that all of the democrats agree we need to do something significant and quick on climate. everyone agrees we have to do something great and big to the infrastructure of roads and bridges and sewer systems aren't serving us well. working class folks need ways to take care of our kids and go to work and create jobs. they agree. making sausage, watching sausage being made is not a wonderful thing but at the end of the day, the rest of the details get lost on the public and the public is getting inpatient and i think people in washington if they heard that yet, need to hear it now. this needs to happen sooner rather than later. pasting deadlines once or twice is okay but after that people
think what is going on? so i know they're working hard. i know they're well intentioned but at the end of the day they have to get it done sooner rather than later and the president is a leader here and got to help make it happen. >> listen, i'm laughing because you're frozen. we can hear you but there is a very nice still picture of you. looks like we snapped a photograph. we'll let you go. i want to talk to you about other things but that's not going to happen. we'll continue to discuss. thank you. you know, it the election so big the former president barack obama is campaigning. okay? but what democrat terry mccauliff said about virginia schools may turn the governor's race upside down. >> i won't let parents come into schools and make their own decisions. i don't think parents should be telling schools what they should teach. it's sleep number's fall sale on the sleep number 360 smart bed it helps keep you effortlessly comfortable by sensing your movements and automatically responding to both of you. and, it's temperature balancing to help you stay comfortable all night.
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so it is getting down to the wire for the race for the governor in virginia a tight battle being watched and one of the big campaign issues being taught in virginia's schools. joining me is the co-host of the podcast the suburban women problem. she's also a board member with new democracy initiative. thank you so much for joining us. we'll get to virginia. i have to ask you about trump's attempts to overturn the election first to make everyone watching aware that you are the wife of lieutenant colonel alexander vinman. he was a witness in the fist impeachment of donald trump. today, trump is threatening with primaries if they don't support overturning the 2020 election. we all saw what happened on
january 6th when trump said stop the steal. do you think he's doing the same thing all over again? >> i do. he's a bit of a broken record. he just continues on the same things over and over because they -- you know, they apparently resonate with his base. so he kind of goes with whatever works. i don't find him to be terribly creative or much of a strategist but his base doesn't seem to be interested in that. >> i want to talk about the big election in virginia because both parties are looking at the race for the governor between terry mccauliff and glenn youngkin as a barometer. this comment from mccauliff last turned the election on its head. watch. >> i'm going to let parents make their own decisions. i don't think parents should be telling schools what they should teach.
>> youngkin is seizing on this, stoke agriculture war over what kids are being taught in schools. look, you got kids. you're going to school board meetings. is his strategy working? >> i think it's working with some but what we really have to remember, don, is that this is a well-funded and well-resourced group of people that is going specifically to school board meetings to stir up controversy and, you know, i think the problem is twofold is that the democrats have been very slow to respond, you know, as they like to say in therapy, we have to name it to tame it and we need to define what this is, which is a cultural war. these are faux cultural wars, critical race theory is a huge part of that and the democrats have been silent on it, which i understand why they have been silent to some extent because it's non-sense but you have them
controlling the narrative which is what is happening at the school board meetings, right? you have a group of people who is coming, being very vocal and i attended my local prince william county school board meeting last week, last wednesday night. and there was a very vocal group of people. it looked like they were the majority when that wasn't, that is not the case. but when you allow them to control the narrative because they are the loudest voice in the room because they refuse to adhere to decor rum standards, and then you really have a problem. i think that terry mccauliff misspoke. but that's not what he means. he means we're not going to have people come in. a woman at the school board meeting said she wasn't able to sign up to talk about critical race theory so she signed up to talk about salaries and her first opening salvo is, i'm here to talk about salaries. you should.
be getting yours because you're not doing your job. this is what they want to say. we're only going to pay you if you do what we tell you you should do and that's not how things work in a democracy. >> i wonder why you think this is happening now because listen, you're right. they're the loudest voices, not necessarily the majority. they get all the coverage, right? this is a nationwide i think sort of agenda to infect not effect, effect, as well but infect the narrative and really people into thinking like this is some big deal that critical race theory is being taught and we need to get ahold of it because it's making our kids feel guilty. you know what i'm saying? >> absolutely, which by the way is the talking points that are used. i understand. change is hard and we've been through a lot of change in the past couple of years and, you know, change, fast change is
particularly difficult for people. i get it. it's also, you know, what i learned at the school board meeting, i listened and went as a parent and i went to listen. i wasn't speaking. i learned something. i learned something from both sides to be honest but what i heard from the people who were in support of not critical race theory, critical race theory is a 40-year-old graduate level concept so, you know, congratulations as i saw someone say on twitter. if your 10-year-old is learning critical race theory, that means they're in graduate school. that's not the case for my 10-year-old. it's nonsensical but if they are, you know, learning to be a little more sensitive and include everyone in the room, i'm okay with that because i'm still learning that, too. 2020 taught me that i still have things to learn as an individual and as a society. we still have work to do because
not everyone has had the same experience and it's okay to acknowledge that. i know that people are afraid and the republican party is really big on capitalizing on these fears. look at me now. my neck is breaking out. it's red. it because this is not my comfort zone but it's important and i'm going to keep doing it. and i'm the co-host as you mentioned the suburban women problem podcast, we interview regular women and moms all the time who are stepping out of their comfort zone and going out there and talking about these issues and attending school board meetings because it's hitting very close to home so they're not on tv, they're not making the news but they're there and they're trying to make a difference and showing up is so much part of this. just showing up and speaking out and using your voice. so -- >> well i -- >> that's what we're going to do and keep doing and try to win this race because you're right, it's going to be a blueprint for 2022 if --
if youngkin is able to win. >> i think it's already a blueprint for 2022. i think the whole, you know -- >> i agree. >> when it first started to happen this whole critical race theory is a strategy to infect the narrative. thank you very much. >> thank you for having me. he gives advice all the time but dr. sanjay gupta is bringing the facts to someone who sometimes well, ignores them. sanjay will tell us about his interview with joe rogan. that's next. with mucinex all-in-one you've got unbeatable relief from your worst cold and flu symptoms. so when you need to show your cold who's boss, grab mucinex all-in-one... and get back to your rhythm. feel the power. beat the symptoms fast. [♪] did you know, you no longer need to visit a dermatologist to get access to top skincare ingredients? introducing dermageek featuring top dermatologist recommended ingredients and 0% fillers. dermageek's new detoxifying facial serum
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our very own dr. sanjay gupta sitting down with joe rogan to talk all things covid for a three-hour interview. he's here to talk about it. he lived through that. dr. sanjay gupta and author of the book "world war c" lessons from the cove pandemic, how to prepare for the next one. dr. sanjay gupta is here. good to see you. listen, i thought it was -- you covered a variety of subjects as it relates to covid. let's play some of the long interview and then we'll talk. here it is. >> okay. >> obviously vaccinated people can catch it and spread it. >> yes, they can. >> if that's the case, the argument of getting vaccinated to stop spreading it doesn't seem to make sense to me.
>> what if you were far less likely to get infected if you were vaccinated? >> wouldn't you be far less likely to get infected if you're healthy and wouldn't you promote people getting healthy? >> i totally agree with that and i want to talk to you about that because i wrote a lot about this but just on this point of the vaccination, again, i don't think it's either or with this. i think that eight times according to this data, eight times less likely to get infected if you have been vaccinated. >> than just someone who is just plain unvaccinated -- >> somebody who does not have immunity. >> sanjay, i'm glad you pushed back about people who have vaccinated and getting covid. the fact is that you can get it if you are vaccinated but it's your chances of survival and that's the important thing. >> yeah, no question. i don't think there is any disagreement the vaccines can be very protective against people getting sick. i don't think joe disagrees with that.
i think with regard to the vaccinated versus unvaccinated and transmission, i think this is a huge misconception, don. i didn't realize how deep it went. the basic premise that he kept pushing and saying was that even if you're vaccinated, it doesn't make a difference. you can still transmit as if you're unvaccinated. that's not true. you know, you're eight times less likely to get infected in the first place and even though you might have virus you're carrying in your nose and mouth, the duration is much smaller. much narrower window. it's possible someone vaccinated can still spread. it's not perfect by really good tool in terms of bringing this pandemic to an end and clearly it helps people from -- keeps them from getting sick. joe, you know, is a believer in natural immunity. i don't think he's saying people should go out and get infected, not really but saying his immunity is very strong because he got infected. that's a terrible strategy. no one should be advocating for
infection over vaccination. >> and that is a good clarification of what he is saying, sanjay. thank you for that. it seems like rogen was all for people with high risks or other co-morbidities to get vaccinated but kept pushing back when it comes to young people, to young healthy people. this is what he said about why he didn't get vaccinated and his experience with covid. here it is. >> so would you now with what you know now and having had covid, would you have wished that you had been vaccinated? >> no. >> before hand? >> you almost got vaccinated. >> yeah, but again -- >> you got through it. >> but i got through covid. >> yeah. >> pretty quickly. >> yeah. >> so that was my -- my thought was i'm a healthy person. i exercise constantly. i'm always taking vitamins. i take care of myself. i felt like i was going to be okay and that was true. it was correct. i'm happy i got through it. i don't wish it upon anyone.
it wasn't fun but it wasn't the worst cold i've ever had and i got over it fairly quickly. relatively speaking. >> i think that -- and again, i'm truly glad about that. all kidding aside. i don't think anybody wishes you -- everybody wants you to be well and healthy but the question is in terms of the nuance of this. it's not a strategy that people get infected. >> i think a lot of people should get vaccinated. >> if you just said vulnerable people -- >> yeah, older people, fat people, i think a lot of those folks. my real concern is this urge to vaccinate children. and i don't know what kind of data we have on the long term effects of this. >> okay. so sanjay, what do you say to that? there is a lot of data and we have been encouraging people for months now, everyone who is eligible to get vaccinated. give us the facts. >> i'm not sure really, you
know, what he's driving at sometimes because i think he says on one hand, i'm not advocating people get infected but i'm also not -- he's not obviously advocating for the vaccine for a lot of people. it's a very contagious virus. that's the issue. that's why the vaccine exists to protect people from getting infected. it was a little confusing. with regard to young people in particular, it came down to two issues. the value of getting people vaccinated so they don't spread the virus. if they're not as likely to get sick, they can spread the virus. we're trying to bring the pandemic to an end and that's why you want to create as much immunity as possible out there. the other thing is this idea that again joe rogan and others brought up the idea are the vaccines worse than the disease for young people specifically? we put numbers, don, we can put them up because this got a lot of people's attention.
the issue of inflammation around the heart, it is true that after the pfizer vaccine there were a additional events, additional myocarditis events. more per 100,000 people but the disease, how much myocarditis was that causing? about 11 cases per 100,000 people. these are very small numbers. these are patients who did not need to be hospitalized. it resolved on their own. did not cause a significant problem long term but that's i think what he was getting hung up on. i kept saying, look, nobody wants this pandemic. but the disease is clearly worse than the vaccine, no matter how you look at it and crunch the numbers. >> it's very important. it's in large part a tongue and cheek interview because it's joe rogan and you're jockeying back and forth but he did say something about ivermectin that i think wasn't actually correct about cnn and lying. okay?
ivermectin is a drug that is commonly used as a horse dewormer. so it is not a lie to say that the drug is used as a horse dewormer. i think that's important and it is not approved for covid. correct? >> that's right. that's correct. it is not approved for covid and you're right, the fda put out a statement saying, you know, basically reminding people of the strange sort of message from the fda but said you're not a horse, you're not a cow, stop taking this stuff is essentially what they said referring to ivermectin. to joe's point -- >> it's been approved for humans but not necessarily for covid, right? >> that's correct. it's been used for a parasite disease for something called river blindness and it's been very effective for that, but, you know, just because it works for one thing, doesn't mean it works for something else and there are still a few on going clinical trials around ivermectin but for the most
part, if you look at the data, there is no evidence it really works here. when joe got sick, he took ivermectin and monoclonal antibodies which is an infusion of these antibodies. he took both. it's very likely it was the monoclonal antibodies that made him feel better so quickly. >> sanjay, always a pleasure. i hope this was an easier experience than joe rogan. you held your own. >> three hours. i don't think i've ever spoken to another human for three hours like that. it was really something. >> thank you. best of luck with the book, as well. >> you got it. >> "world war c". >> thank you. more fallout from the raiders after their coach's racist, misogynsitic emails but will there be fallout for the entire league?
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so the fallout from former las vegas head coach jon gruden misogynistic and racist emails continues. tonight, the owner of the raiders saying the nfl has all the answers. gruden wasn't the target of the investigation into the culture of the washington football team. he was working at espn at the time. his emails are a few of hundreds of thousands captured in the investigation. joining me now is jamel hill, contributing writer for the
atlantic. i wanted to talk to you last night. we didn't have time to get you or the night before when this broke. listen, you say good evening, hello, welcome all that. you say that the nfl is full of jon grudens. you talked to people in the league. you have sources. is this just the tip of iceberg? >> i think it is. i mean, listen, the results speak for themselves. don, we know by the obvious institutional racism that exists in the nfl that this is the mentality they have. it may be different degrees. they may not use the same vulgar language as jon gruden but in word, deed and action this is kind of who the nfl is and has been. a league with only three black head coaches, a league that's never had a majority black owner in its 101-year history, the league just got its first black team president last year. so based off the evidence, why should we even trust that the nfl has any motivation to be inclusive or progressive when
they have not shown it? so yeah, clearly this mentality has an effect. >> it seems unlikely that these emails will be released jamel and they're part of one investigation into one team. does there need to be a comprehensive look at the league you think out in the open where nothing can get buried or swept under the rug? >> there does. there needs to be and i think that's the only way the nfl will gain credibility. the nfl is not interested in credibility or exposing the warts and uncomfortable prejudices and racism that happens in the league. they want to protect their brand and the shield. they talk about it all the time. that's why we will never see these 650,000 emails that are associated with this investigation into the washington team. we have to remember that when the league settled its case against colin kaepernick and eric reid for collusion, part of
the reason the league settled is they did not want nfl owners' depositions to be entered into evidence. they didn't want discovery. they didn't want anything on the record anybody could access or leak because then that would expose what some owners think. if jon gruden is this comfortable saying what he said about the executive director of the nfl players' association, d. smith, and about women, and gay people, what do you think the owners were saying about colin kaepernick and black players that protested during the national anthem? what did that look like? >> come on, you know. >> you already know. >> as we say, you already know. >> we already know. right? so -- >> yeah. >> yeah, and that's part of it. jon gruden felt so comfortable in his racism, homophobia and misogyny. he was sending this over email and having a good ol' group email chat about these things.
if somebody in his position would be sending this to someone at the time bruce allen, he's a general manager of a team, don. he's in charge of making hiring and firing decisions. >> and talking about the head of the league, like he's brazen. roger goodell is a faggot. that's what he said, right? >> that's what he said. >> i want to get your perspective on this gruden exchange pictures of almost naked women including washington cheerleaders and mocked the league for having women referees. is there a wink and a nod culture that it's okay in the nfl? >> i mean, it's always hard to paint with a broad brush but i think there is a general acceptance that there are some people, if not a lot of people who think like jon gruden, who have no problem saying these things openly and to other people with a wink and smile and, you know, the real shame of
this is that because of how accepted this is in the nfl that there is always going to be a place for a jon gruden and not colin kaepernick. that's what the league shows. >> now what? what happens? >> what happens is the nfl does everything it can to mitigate the circumstances and go and do damage control and they're going to continue what they have been doing, which i say in my column for the atlantic. the nfl is about performative gestures and politely addressing it. they would talk about having decals on helmets and have mary j blige perform at the super bowl halftime show than do the real work to rid the league of this mentality, this kind of institutional racism that is baked into it much like the numbers are baked into the football field. >> jamel, next time we have you on, i want you to say how you
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okay, so take this, herschel walker scrapping a fund-raiser why? because the event was being hosted by a woman whose twitter profile picture looked like this. yes, that is a swastika, made up of medical needles. earlier the campaign told the "atlanta journal constitution" who first reported the story that this is clearly an anti-mandatory vaccine graphic. really?
is that what that is? the campaign putting out a longer statement and walker saying he's a strong supporter of the jewish community and opposes hatred and bigotry of all forms. is a spokesman for the georgia democratic party saying herschel walker defended a swastika. sadly this is not an isolated episode when it comes to some of the gop. ridiculous comparisons of nazi germany are a mainstay of anti-vax groups. two weeks ago i told you about protesters in alaska wearing yellow stars to protest a mask mandate. we've heard people making these ignorant references over and over and over. >> science and law shouldn't be changing so fast. has nuremberg taught us nothing of medical tyranny in the past? >> we are frighteningly close to reliving the history of nazi germany.
>> 1930s germany has many similarities here. thanks for showing your true colors. >> how many vaccines have you had? have you been a good little nazi? hail fauci! hail fauci. >> stop it. i'm so tired of having to say this. you're not a victim for having to take a life-saving vaccine. it is not fascism to have to wear a mask for a few hours of your day. and how dare anyone compare that to the suffering and genocide of the jewish people in nazi germany? read a history book. thanks for watching. our coverage continues.
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welcome to viewers joining us in the united states and around the world. i'm isa soares. just ahead here on "cnn newsroom." >> donald trump isn't the president any more. >> former president of the united states is still out pushing the big lie. >> bannon doesn't get to invent his own law. >> deposition deadline day on capitol hill. the january 6 committee targets trump aides steve bannon and kash patel. but will they show up? deploy the national guard. u.s. business leaders call on the white house to address the