tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN October 13, 2021 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
a five-or-ten minute mission but he says enough to change his life. >> oh my god. it was unbelievable. unbelievable. you know, the little things, the waitlessness, but to see the blue color go whip by and now you're staring into blackness, that's the thing. the covering of blue, this comforter of blue that we have and us. we think, oh, that's blue sky and then it's as if you whip off the sheet and you're looking into blackness, black ugliness. there's the blue down there and the black up there. and it's just there is mother and earth and comfort and there is -- is there death? i don't know. was that death? is that the way death is? whoop, and it's gone. geez.
more on that journey shortly. we begin with breaking news and a countdown to answers or if answers aren't forthcoming to consequences. another big subpoena from the house select committee on january 6th is for jeffrey clark, the justice department official whom the president wanted to make acting attorney general as part of his scheme to overturn the election. it concerns steve bannon and cash patel both scheduled to give depositions tomorrow. the committee has threatened to bring criminal contempt charges if he and others won't testify. former chief of staf f mark mad owes m meadows face similar situations.
>> we're not going to allow them to play rope a dope. we're going to go straight to criminal contempt and expect the justice department to hold to the principle that no one is against the law and not say i don't want to comply with the subpoena. there is something that can be done about it. they can be prosecuted and go to jail over it. >> the former president has been telling bannon and company not to cooperate with the committee. a number of his former big name lawyers choosing to sit this one out. some consider him toxic for trying to overturn the election. others, according to several people familiar with legal circles are worried they'll stiff them, not pay them. four attorneys who reecently tun them down, he said he didn't even know who they are. he said i do pay them when they do a good job, all but admitting he does stiff them when they don't. what's the latest?
>> this is the latest decision that documents that they said they would like to see and help their investigation. current president biden and this white house have said they are not going to be asserting privilege over those documents. they've made that formal in a letter just released by the white house today. it was submitted on friday to the national archives saying they will not be asserting executive privilege over these documents that the former president wants to keep out of the hand of lawmakers. we don't know exactly what's in these documents or why the former president wants to keep them away from the committee that's investigating what happened on january 6th but we know that's not an option when it comes to this white house. the president himself and the white house counsel have reviewed these documents and say they don't feel it's justified in asserting privilege, which would not let lawmakers see them. the new thing in the letter tonight is there's now a countdown on this. in this letter the president is
instructing the national archives given the urgency of this investigation to release these documents within 30 days of letting former president trump know, the key line, "absent any intervening court order", which is something this white house is expecting from the former president. >> joining us with more from capitol hill, what more do we no about the justice department official and is there any indication he's going to cooperate? >> the reason they took the step of issuing a subpoena is they could not get clark to negotiate. they'd been in negotiation with he and his lawyer attempting to get him to hand over the information they were looking for. he dragging his feet. they needed to take the serious step of requiring the subpoena to compel him.
they wrote there is credible evidence that you attempted to involve the department of justice in efforts to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power. he was trying to con for instance many high officials to investigate these false claims of election fraud. one of the people he was trying to convince was the then acting attorney jeffrey rosen. rosen rebuffed those claims and would not act on them. rosen voluntaril y cooperated
with the cht ommittee. they've made it clear if any of these four individuals does not comply, they are ready to take the step of criminal contempt and that could come quickly, perhaps even as soon as tomorrow night, if someone like steve bannon does not show up or outright defies their request. each of these four individuals is either not cooperating or cooperating on different levels. it's important we need to look at each one on its own merits but the committee has made it clear they are not going to wait around to move to criminal contempt if they feel it's necessary. >> for more, we're joined by cnn contributor garrett graff and eli hoenig. the clark has started now on 30 days to release these documents absent an intervening court order. do you think this will
ultimately end up with a, you know, a legal fight? >> i do think it will, anderson. this move by the biden administration puts donald trump in a very tough spot. now trump has two options. one, he can do nothing and let it be, which means 30 days from now those documents go over to the committee or, two, trump can go to court and ask them to block the documents from going over. that's a serious uphill climb. we don't have a definitive answer in the law. generally speaking it's the current president who gets to decide. that makes sense. we've seen barack obama and george w. bush exercise or not exercise executive privilege on behalf of their predecessor. fr trump's got a serious uphill climb. courts need to do better, they need to do quicker and they need to prioritize if these cases
land before them so they didn't drag on forever. >> how big of an issue is this? it could include call logs and outside officials, rudy giuliani. how significant could it be? >> it could be quite significant. what we're beginning to see across the actions of the january 6th committee offer the l -- over the last week or so is the move to examine the root causes of january 6th and the permission structure created for the rioters to participate that day. the justice department has done a herculean job bringing charges against those who participated in the riot itself.
but we haven't seen kwconsequens for the people who initiated and enabled and it's important those people face consequences and quickly. >> how significant is the subpoena for jeffrey clark? he worked in the department of justice and was helping then-president president trump in his efforts to overturn the election. there was a meeting with former attorney general jeffrey rosen to the investigation. >> anderson, d.o.j. is a central part of the big picture here. it's enormous live significant that jeffrey rosen went in today. the single most valuable weapon donald trump could have had, the most potent weapon to overthrow this election was d.o.j. thankfully jeffrey rosen and other leaders stood up and said no. it's significant he testified for eight hours. jeffrey clark has some serious problems now. one, the committee is trying to compel him to testify, as they
should. jeffrey clark tried to commit a fraud. he drafted a letter saying d.o.j. has identified concerns about election fraud in georgia. that's just false. jeffrey clark needs think about potential criminal exposure, too, committing a fraud is a crime, conspiracy is a crime, election interference is a crime. he has the right to take the fifth. he might be well advised to do so here. >> his attorneys argue he's bound by executive privileges belonging to president trump. the former president is not the sitting president. ben was not a white house official in january. he was actually already -- he was actually charged with something, with fraud, which the president then pardoned him for. what do you think bannon's end game is here? >> we mentioned in the intro to the segment the goal here in almost all cases is to delay. the hope is that they are able
to run out the clock on these investigations, run out the clock on the prosecutions and basically get into the mid terms where potentially the republicans can take control of congress and make this whole thing go away. >> all signs are pointing to the committee moving to a criminal contempt charge if bannon doesn't show up for the deposition tomorrow. how long likely is it that merrick garland with approve it? >> he said the reason we don't this before in the past because we had a trump person in there. how could he not charge these cases? nobody's been charged with this criminally this over 50 years and even over the last decade, d.o.j. under both parties has declined to bring these criminal
prosecutions. the question is will merrick garland do what he has do to have some responsibility here? >> coming up, william shatner and his thoughts on flights and a new kind of booster. why mix and match could be better. ahead on 360. ♪ look for the bare necessities ♪ ♪ the simple bare necessities ♪
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people sometimes don't want to talk about mental health, they don't want to talk about problems that they might have that aren't physical, but those problems are just as real. i have this disease you know, and it makes it awkward that i have to explain myself or prove myself in certain situations. a lot of times i'm not feeling good or you know not having a good day, but through the music i'm able to have a good day by expressing something that feels good to me that i can pass onto others. one of my favorite phrases to share with not only my kids but anybody is never compare your insides to someone else's outsides. we are creating conversation we are raising awareness and we're kicking the hell out of this stigma saying get away from the people we love the most. ♪
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flight. he's the oldest person to make that journey. they got to experience the weight of the world literally falling away, something most of us can only dream of. perhaps just a bit less moving than the real thing. as much as ""star trek"" might have changed william shatner's career, he said this experience changed his life. he spoke for a while after he left the capsule and it was an amazing thing to see and here. here's a good bit of it. >> geez. it was so moving to me. this experience did something unbelievable. you see, yeah, you know, weightless, my stomach went up and i was like this is so weird, but not as weird as the covering of blue. this is what i never expected. oh, it's one thing to say, oh, the sky and the thing and the fragile. it's all true. but what isn't true, what is
unknown until you do it is this pillow, there's this soft blue. look at the beauty of that color. and it's so thin. and you're through it in an instant. what a -- how thick is it? is it a mile, two miles? >> depends how you measure it because it thins out but maybe 50 miles. >> but you're going 2,000 miles an hour. so you're through 50 miles whatever the mathematics is and suddenly you're into blue and you're into black. it's galaxy and things but what you see is black. what you see down there is light and that's the difference. and not to have this? you have done something. whatever those other guys are doing, what isn't -- i don't know about them. what you have given me is the
most profound experience i can imagine. i'm so filled with emotion about what just happened. i just -- it's extraordinary. extraordinary. >> i hope i never recover from this. i hope that i can maintain what i feel now. i don't want to lose it. it's so -- it's so much larger than me and life. it hasn't got anything to do with the little green planet, the blue orb. it has to do with the enormity and the quickness and the suddenness of life and death. oh my god. >> it's so beautiful. >> beautiful, yes, beautiful in its way. >> no, i mean your words. it's just amazing. >> i don't know.
i can't even begin to express what i would love to do is to communicate as much as possible the jeopardy, the moment you see how -- the vulnerability of everything. it's so small. this air, which is keeping us alive is thinner than your skin. it's a -- it's a deliver. it's immeasurably small when you think in terms of the universe. >> william shatner's experience today clearly exceeding expectation when is we spoke just last week. >> i'm looking forward to the whole thing. i've been there. i was there last week rehearsing, whatever they call it. >> training i think is what they
call it. >> training. i think of it as rehearsal. i want to go to warp speed. take me to warp speed and they go "what"? and the weightlessness. you're thin enough but i'm not. imagine being weightless and staring into that blackness and seeing the earth. that's what i want to absorb. >> it goes by fast. on bezos's flight they were throwing skittles at each other. i would want to be staring out at the window the whole time. >> i want to press my nose up against the plastic window. what i don't want to see is somebody else out there looking back at me. no, we don't want that one. >> oh, my god, that's really funny. >> wouldn't that be funny? >> it would be a whole lot more than that. we're going to talk to william
shatner on friday on "full circle." i hope you join us for that. now with us, astro physicist and ou author of "a pocket-size tour." you wrote god speed, he's going to reach mach 3 on descent. when you saw his reaction today, he was clearly moved. what do you think? >> we need more people who are not traditional astronauts to go into space. because then you'll see a much greater range of reactions. yes, actors who played roles in space, send poets and musicians and send people when they come back they can infuse
civilization with whatever way space as influenced them, which filters back into the life for everyone. i was delighted to see him take this voyage. >> i want to see amanda gorman go into space and coming back with some sort of poem that's amazing. >> yeah, yeah. i think we're missing a big part of what civilization could say about being in space. space should not be the perch of the privileged few or the privile privileged billionaires. we're witnessing the birth of an entire economy, industry. you're watching a hundred years ago people fiddle over their airplanes, trying to turn them into something that can take more than one passenger. >> the thing that interests me
with jeff bezos is this notion he has of building a infrastructure for space. he can build amazon because the postal service already existed and fedex already existed, there was an infrastructure. he said if some really smart kid in a dorm room, in a college campus right now has an amazing idea to do something in space, without an infrastructure you can't really do it at this stage and he hopes to be part of building that infrastructure, which if that is actually what he's doing, i think that's a really fascinating concept. >> that's part of the birth of a new entity. by the way, elon musk knew this with his electric cars. you can't give electric cars to everybody if you can't charge them en route to where you're going. there are now more than 40,000 electric car charging stations across the united states. the same happened with combustion engine cars. you can't have people buying cards unless there are roads and
you can't have roads with distance on them unless you can refill. he's exactly right. for space to become a next frontier to boldly go. it's not the final frontier, just the next frontier, you are need all that infrastructure and that could take time. decades, not centuries for sure. >> would you want to go on blue origin or any other space flight? >> i'm an astro physicist. how high up does it go? it goes the thickness of two dimes above. so for me -- and then you're boldly going where hundreds have gone before. so for me, i would get on a spaceship if you're going to take me somewhere, the moon, mars or beyond. then there's a destination. and that's what i'd want. >> just very briefly before we go, all these unidentified craft that have been seen, where do you stand on this?
>> it's not a matter of stance. it's -- i've said this before. just look at -- by the way, there are 3 billion smartphones in the world. each one can take a high resolution color video or still picture and the best evidence we're looking at is mono monochromomatic -- really? we can't do better than this? i'm not saying people aren't credible. as a scientist, the criteria is are they human? that's all that matters. if you're human and you hear something astonishing and they're pilots and used to seeing bogeys. they'll be astonished but that doesn't mean they know what it is. just because you don't know what it is doesn't mean you know what
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a new study from the national institutes of health found not only is it safe for people to get a covid-19 booster different from the vaccine they initially received but in some cases, it could actually be better. for those who initially got the single shot johnson & johnson vaccine, a boost from a pfizer or moderna vaccine seem to provide a stronger response. the results of the study have not yet been peer reviewed or published but are expected to be discussed during a meeting of the fda vaccine advisers on friday. joining us to try to make sense of it, dr. leana wen, cnn medical analyst and the author of the book lifelines, a doctor's journey in the fight for public health. so, what were some of your takeaway -- or at least initial takeaways from this nih study? again, not peer reviewed. >> i think a lot of people have been waiting for this study to find out do they have to take a booster that is the same brand as what they got initially?
and so, let's take a look at the study. this is a study that is relatively small. 458 participants. they broke the groups down into nine groups and that is because there are three groups of individuals who got the pfizer, moderna, and johnson & johnson vaccine. that's three groups who then got the -- the same booster as they got of the initial vaccine. then, they have six additional groups of people who got a different brand than what they got initially. the most important takeaways are two things. one is that all of these different nine combinations are safe, as in there are no new or different side effects so all of these appear to be safe. and then, the second big takeaway is that all of these combinations induced a pretty strong, robust antibody response. so that actually justifies the mix-and-match approach. which i hope is something the fda and cdc will endorse in their meeting this week. >> so as you mentioned, the study also shows that people who received the johnson & johnson vaccine got a much higher response after moderna or pfizer booster than if they received a j&j booster. so, just could you walk us through what that -- what it shows?
>> right. so up -- up until this point, the 15 million americans who got the one-dose johnson & johnson vaccine really have not gotten any guidance at all. what this study found is that the people who got a second dose of johnson & johnson had a fourfold increase in the neutralizing antibody response. that's very good. but people who got a second dose that's a pfizer vaccine had 35 times the level of neutralizing antibody increase and who got moderna, had a 76fold increase. and so, i think there are a lot of people who got the j&j vaccine who are now going to be wondering should i get the second dose that's something different than j&j? and again, i know that's something that the fda and cdc will be discussing in detail but this study certainly points in that direction. >> so you were part of the johnson & johnson vaccine trial. seeing this study, would you be getting or will you be getting a booster? and is it possible all those who received j&j could be eligible for one in the future, just simply based on those numbers? >> well, i think there have already been a lot of studies that have shown that people who got the johnson & johnson vaccine are not as well
protected as those who got the pfizer and moderna vaccine. and so, i had already decided that i was going to get a booster. i have not done so, yet. but i have also decided that i am not going to get a second dose of the j&j vaccine and that's because of another reason which is that for women under the age of 50, there is a very rare but very serious side effect that's been associated with the j&j vaccine of a rare but again very serious blood clotting disorder. and so, i think i was already, based on the data from other countries for astrazeneca which is similar to the johnson & johnson vaccine, i was already going to see it would be reasonable to get a pfizer or moderna booster instead of a second j&j booster. but looking at these mix and match results from the nih today, i am even more inclined to get a moderna or pfizer booster buzz because not only is it safe, it appears to be even more effective. >> yeah.
i just want to put that last screen back up. i mean, it's remarkable. if you got -- if you have j&j and then you decide to get another j&j as a booster. it's -- it benefits -- it's four-times improvement. but if you get the moderna, it's 76 times improvement and pfizer 35. i mean, that's incredible. >> right. and to be fair, antibody response is not the only measure of immune protection. you also have b cells and t cells that are involved in the immune response and the studies have not looked at effectiveness. as in they are not looking -- they are looking at how much do your antibodies increase? but not how well protected you are against covid-19 so it's not like the pfizer or moderna vaccines are many, many more times effective but you do get this very strong antibody response because antibody response is a correlate of immunity. i think it does -- it should give people a lot of pause at least to consider getting a second dose for people who got the johnson & johnson initial vaccine. >> dr. leana wen, appreciate it. thank you. still ahead, new cnn polling revealing how americans feel about the job president biden is doing and what that could mean for some key governor races coming down the pike as well as some midterm races. we'll be right back.
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baaam. internet that doesn't miss a beat. that's cute, but my internet streams to my ride. adorable, but does yours block malware? nope. -it crushes it. pshh, mine's so fast, no one can catch me. big whoop! mine gives me a 4k streaming box. -for free! that's because you all have the same internet. xfinity xfi. so powerful, it keeps one-upping itself. can your internet do that? new cnn polling out tonight shows americans are divided almost equally over how president biden is doing his
job. in the new poll, 50% approve while 49% disapprove of how mr. biden is handling his presidency. it's largely unchanged from a cnn poll conducted in august and september. senior data reporter, harry enten, joins us now. so when you look at the new polling, what do you make of it? and what might it tell us about races in new jersey and virginia coming up? >> i'm confused. i know that might be surprising for me to say but i'm confused and here's why. we have this -- all this new slew of polling, right? we have the cnn poll, we have a cbs news yougov poll which pretty much agrees, right, that biden's approval rating is at 50%. but if you average all of the polls, not just those two polls, what you see is biden's approval rating is just 45% and his disapproval rating is six points higher so that creates a net of minus six. you can see there is a bunch of different polling there giving you essentially different results. why is that important? because take a look at last year's presidential results in virginia and new jersey versus the nation. what do you see? you see that virginia and jersey are significantly more
democratic than the united states is. so if, let's say, the cnn/ssrs poll is right and biden's net approval rating is essentially even or plus one, there is basically no shot that the democrats lose in those two governors' races, in either virginia and new jersey. but if in fact, the other polling is right and, let's say, biden is underwater then especially in virginia, democrats might be in a bit of trouble. >> as always, be aware of polling. >> beware of outliers. average, average, average, and look, take the widest margin of error you possibly can because in that particular case, i can never be wrong. >> there is also insight into how americans feel about the infrastructure and larger social spending bills in congress right now. what can you tell about the differences? >> yeah. >> look, here's the bottom line. the democrats have to pass something if they want to satisfy their own voters. and here's essentially why. if you look at the polling, what you essentially see is that, look. enact all of it, right? enact the whole big package, the
$3.5 trillion. look at that. 75% of democrats like that. 20% of democrats say, you know what? enact fewer proposals for less cost. but only 4% say enact nothing. so you got to enact something if you're the democrats and you want to satisfy your own voters. even among the electorate at large, look. enact nothing is just at 29%. now, why is that important looking forward to both virginia and new jersey? here is the reason why. democratic voters seem less motivated this particular point than republicans are because look at the likely voters in virginia. plus three, terry mcauliffe. that is a much smaller lead than among registered voters where it's plus six. even in new jersey, look at that. you actually have a pretty competitive race if you just look at the voters who have voted in each of the last few elections, versus among all registered voters, it's plus 13 murphy. so essentially, you want to make sure those democrats right now who aren't that enthusiastic get off the bench and the way to do that is actually pass legislation that democratic voters like. >> historically, do the races -- these races tell us much about what is going to happen in midterms? >> yes, especially, in virginia. look.
if you look back and if you go all the way back to the late '70s, long before i was born although i believe you were alive at that particular point. >> ouch! you hurt me, harry. >> i might have hurt you a little but the bottom line is -- the bottom line is that eight out of the last 11 times, the winner in the virginia gubernatorial race, right, that side wins house seats -- gains house seats in the next midterm. so, yeah, i'll be looking at virginia, and especially if it's close. look. the bottom line in virginia is it's such a democratic state so if that race is close, that's a bad sign for democrats. they want tire mcauliffe to win in a large fashion if in fact they want to be in a good position looking forward to next year. >> what year were you born, harry enten? >> i'm sorry, i do not give that away. i'm somewhere between 25 and 34 years old. you know, i click that on the polling dial. but i'll say this. my father was born in 1927. and he -- i was born when he was in his 60s.
so that, i think, gives you an understanding both into my personality and why i kind of sound like an old jew. but also, in my actual age. >> a lot to chew on. harry enten, thank you. appreciate it. >> thank you, i got to get home and fix the flooding in my apartment. up next, the tough spot texas governor greg abbott is putting businesses in. his state in over -- over his ban on vaccine mandates see why an attorney for texas's largest county says that businesses should sue the governor. now we've created a brand-new way for you to sell your car. whether it's a year old or a few years old. we wanna buy your car. so go to carvana and enter your license plate answer a few questions. and our techno wizardry calculates your car's value and gives you a real offer in seconds. when you're ready, we'll come to you, pay you on the spot and pick up your car, that's it. so ditch the old way of selling your car, and say hello to the new way at carvana.
talking about mental health it's not a sign of weakness, but really a sign of strength. people sometimes don't want to talk about mental health, they don't want to talk about problems that they might have that aren't physical, but those problems are just as real. i have this disease you know, and it makes it awkward that i have to explain myself or prove myself in certain situations. a lot of times i'm not feeling good or you know not having a good day, but through the music i'm able to have a good day by expressing something that feels good to me that i can pass onto others. one of my favorite phrases to share with not only my kids but anybody is never compare your insides to someone else's outsides.
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texas businesses are facing a tough choice after republican governor greg abbott this week banned vaccine mandates in the state, including at private businesses. the move is aimed at president biden's vaccine requirement for companies doing business with the government, among others. texas businesses now must decide who to comply with. already, southwest and american airlines both based in texas have said they will evade the federal mandate. an attorney for the largest county in the state, harris county, says governor abbott's move puts lives at risk. he is calling on texans to take legal action against the governor. said in a statement on tuesday, this is mostly a political bluster designed to create confusion and subject businesses to burdensome lawsuits which can only slow down our economic recovery. i encourage texas businessowners who believe in science and the rule of law to sue governor abbott and join harris county
and other cities and school districts fighting back against his overreach. mr. this is not our first rodeo with governor abbott. he issued mask mandates, opening up in the state of texas. local governments were pro prohibited from doing the same. what we've seen is the governor is not going to respect the people, he's not going to respect the law, which is very limited in when he can issue executive orders. one thing he's going to have to respect is the will of the courts. i'm calling on texas business owners to file these lawsuits because that's exactly what we did in local government when the governor previously issued these bans on various measures to stop the spread of covid. we filed lawsuits, school districts filed lawsuits, cities across the state filed lawsuits.
i think it's time for businesses to get into the game as well. >> are you planning on bringing legal action on this ban on vaccine mandates? >> the good news is our pending lawsuit against the governor in the attorney general right now already addresses the overreaching question which is, does the governor have the legal authority under texas' disaster act to issue these executive orders. if the texas supreme court finds that the answer is no, and we hope that they will, then it means that none of these executive orders that he's using to tie the hands of local officials and businesses have any legal merit. so we're confident that with the lawsuit we have in place right now, we'll be able to get these questions answered by the courts. >> back in august a spokesperson for governor abbott said businesses did have the option for mandating vaccines because, and i'm quoting, private businesses don't need government running their business. what's changed between then and now for the the governor, do you think?
>> he has gotten two high profile primary opponents in his race for reelection. this is an ongoing pandemic. people are dying across the state. texas is second in the nation in deaths from covid-19. this is a very serious matter. we shouldn't be playing politics with it. but the only thing that's changed between now and the time period that the governor made that statement is that he has primary opponents who are pulling him to the right. he's now tried to push a message to a very small and specific base in the state of texas that are against various measures to keep folks safe during covid-19. it's wrong. local governments are doing everything we can, as are school districts. there are many businesses across the state who are seeking to do the exact same thing. there's already been statements released by local business organizations in houston. nobody is in support of this. it's pretty obvious the governor is doing it for political reasons. >> businesses that decide to follow the federal government mandate as opposed to what the governor wants, could they potentially face financial penalties for defying the state? >> absolutely. and that's what makes the governor's order such nonsense.
it purports to ban any entity in the state of texas from issuing any type of vaccine mandates. but we know there are entities in texas that are compromised of 100% federal employees. there are entities like nursing homes that have to get federal dollars and in order to do so, they have to comply with federal rules. this order was intended to confuse businesses so they don't know whether they should follow the federal rules or the state rules. but it's not good policy. it's not good leadership. especially at a time like this when we're dealing with a pandemic. >> when are you expecting your lawsuit to be ruled on? >> well, we originally teed this up to the texas supreme court months ago because we were trying to get an order before school started but they have since punted on the issue and it was put back down to the lower courts. we're now in the appellate courts in the state. many of these cases, we expect, will be before the texas supreme court in the coming weeks. we're hopeful with counties across the state, cities across the state, parent groups, student groups, and school districts all binding together
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