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tv   Don Lemon Tonight  CNN  October 11, 2021 8:00pm-9:00pm PDT

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here breaking news. jon gruden resigning as head coach of the las vegas raiders. this coming in the wake of reports detailing how gruden used misogynistic and anti-gay language in numerous emails over multiple years. a former facebook employee speaking out to cnn warning dictators are using the social media platform to manipulate people. and president biden's agenda stalled. he is trying to unify democrats
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as republicans go all in on trump's big lie. i want to bring in cnn political commentators. gentlemen, good evening. thank you for joining me on this monday evening. charlie, president biden's domestic agenda is stalled. his party is more divided than ever. his approval ratings are sinking to new lows now. he did make decisive moves on covid that saved lives. that seems to have gotten lost. nine months in and clock is ticking. i mean, is he going to be able to turn this around? he needs some wins here. >> well, certainly. i don't understand why he didn't impress upon house democrats to take up that bipartisan infrastructure bill. take the win. instead, they are tying it to this massive spending bill. part of what's hurting the democrats right now is on the heels of the afghanistan fiasco. there is a delta variant, which i don't blame biden for. inflationary pressure. i think all of those issues are causing him real problems, and i think that he is misread his
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mandate to the extent that he's going way too big on this reconciliation package. they should simply pocket the win and then maybe try to get some incremental gains on the other things advancing in the reconciliation. any one of those things, you know, pre-k, if they did one of those things, that would be a big win. i think he is under too much pressure from the left wing of his party and he doesn't have the mandate to do what he is trying to do. >> what do you say? >> well, i disagree with former congressman there. i think he does have the mandate because he has the house senate and the white house. the problem is the way the white house has communicated what's actually in this $3 trillion reconciliation package. people want to talk about expanding or making permanent child tax credit. people talk about pre-k, they want to talk about global warming and climate change. these are issues that actually, when people hear what's in the bill, they support overwhelmingly.
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however, the white house is stalled because the white house hasn't come out with the ability to communicate what's actually on the table. >> with all due respect, joe biden is in the white house. >> no, no, no. this is a constructive criticism here. >> this is exactly what this is. this is saying this is something they haven't been able to do. they haven't done. the question is, why is the agenda stalled? it's not as if what they are trying to do is unpopular. with all due respect to someone who says that they should not go this big, the fact is that there are a lot of us, there are a lot of black, brown, hispanic americans. today we celebrated indigenous american day who braved a pandemic for this president and this administration to go out and pass these justice agenda items that we want them to pass, and just to date that hasn't happened. so that's why you see the numbers as they are. >> but it's his own party. go ahead, charlie.
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he is fighting his own party. he has some conservative members of the democratic party who are, you know, helping to hold up the agenda. but pretty much, you know, as charlie said, take the win. go ahead, charlie. sorry. >> look, joe biden won the election because there were a lot of swing voting republicans and independents who tired of adult. it was an anti-trump vote. they wanted joe biden to stabilize, normalize the functioning of government to address covid as an adult. he simply did not -- and the same voters voted down ballot for republicans. not one house republican lost his or her re-election. and state legislative candidates on the republican side did well. they were voting for a check at the same time they were voting for joe biden. i just don't see how this was not a mandate to go big or for transformational change. if anything, this was a call for incrementalism and stability. and infrastructure, i think
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that's myly into the biden agenda would be well embraced. it's the swing voters who are the ones who will turn on democrats in the midterm. they did not vote for this. and i think -- >> i am not going to talk about -- i don't want to talk about the midterm because the midterm is a different animal no matter who the president is. but i think that you are kind of reimagining the history of 2020. joe biden became president of the united states because of black and brown vote. the reason you have the senate is not because of individuals who were tired of donald trump in georgia. voters came out throughout the state of georgia. so when you talk about why he got there, i mean, there is the frustration and you hear this frustration being palpable the issue such as -- listen, you can call it transformational, call it too big, call it whatever you want, but passing voting rights and passing things like criminal justice reform, they are not too big. that's -- that's what in country needs. that's -- that's how we heal this country.
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and so that along with what we're talking about in the transportation bill and the build back better plan are all necessary. but the problem is, i mean, to your point, to your point, congressman, this is the fact. he hasn't passed any of those. and because he hasn't even passed one of those, he is stuck in a rut today. >> but the black and brown voters are on the conservative end of the democratic party. they are not -- most of all, they are not progressives. younger people of all different ethnicities, you know, whites -- >> i wouldn't argue that point. >> they are progressive. >> so -- >> charlie is right that he won, yes, he won because of black and brown voters but not because the black and brown voters were necessarily progressives in the left wing. party. >> i'm not -- >> hang on. let me finish. he won because the black and brown voters, as charlie said, thought he would stabilize the country, that he would be able to compromise and work with republicans and pull his party together and the country together as well because in order to get 82 million people when you have african
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americans -- hang on. when you have 82 million people voting for a president, most of the people who voted for him are, quite frankly, white americans, although black and brown people pushed him over -- >> yeah, let's back up a little bit. we are forgetting where we were just last summer. in 2020 people didn't take to the streets. we were all there. we witnessed them taking to the streets. we didn't take to the streets and then vote in outrageous numbers in the middle of a pandemic for something less than transformative. so i'm talking about justice issues, i don't necessarily thinking we are saying different things here. what i am saying though is that you have to deliver on your promises. whether or not those promises were to -- somebody in south bend, indiana or somebody in atlanta, georgia, the president has missed on delivering on those promises. what makes my heartbeat as somebody who voted for joe biden is criminal justice reform, is voting rights. what makes charlie dent's
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heartbeat is a infrastructure bill. what we have the frustration bill is we ain't passed not a damn thing. >> bakari, this is on top of -- look, we have spent $6 trillion, most of it was essential spending on covid. i would argue there were several hundred billion more spent than needed. we agreed that covid needed to be addressed. now we are talking $3.5 trillion on top of that. there needs to be a level of restraint. there is real inflationary pressure out there. this is what real americans are dealing with. shortages and higher prices. yes, i agree with you, bakari, about all of the things that we have seen with respect to former president trump's horrible behavior and his authoritarian impulses and i am not proud of the way the republicans are handling the infrastructure bill now. that said, real americans are concerned about all of the spending, all of the -- the rising prices, and the shortages. i mean, this is real stuff. >> hang on, hang on. i want to play this. i think what charlie is saying,
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yes, it's great. you're right about who pushed joe biden over the finish line. and the moment that we're in now is not necessarily the moment we were in in the summer of 2020, bakari. democrats have to read the room right now. you didn't anticipate a manchin or a sinema. read the room. as a matter of fact, you may not have anticipated this, which is a warning. watch this. this is bill maher. >> some presidents spend their post-presidency building homes for the poor or raising money for charity or painting their toes. trump has spent his figuring out how to pull off the coup he couldn't pull off last time. here's the easiest three predictions in the world. trump will run in 2024, he will get the republican nomination, and whatever happens on election night, the next day he will announce that he won. i have been saying ever since he lost he is like a shark that's not gone, just gone out to sea.
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but actually he has been quietly eating people this whole time. and by eating people, i mean he has been methodically purging the republican party of anyone who voted for his impeachment or doesn't agree that he is the rightful leader of the seven kingdoms. >> so? >> i don't disagree with bill maher on that. some of the things that came out of his mouth in that show were wrong. in this point, he was correct. i have a lot of respect for charlie dent. who he was in congress is who he is on cnn. you can't say that about everyone. this is where we diverge. he actually cared about the deficit then and thinks that we need to rooein spending. i think it will be offset by the improvement when we get that money directly in their pockets, doing things like making the childhood tax credit permanent. and so child income tax credit
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permanent. so i think these things are necessary, right? and so that is a legitimate debate that we can have. but i do think that there is a danger, don. and i hope charlie is listening as well. the danger is, by not doing anything on these justice issues, by not doing anything on these issues that matter, you risk not only 2022, but there is a large swath of people you may argue are not the independent voters or real americans or whatever, but they pushed joe biden over the hump and they won't be coming back because we haven't done anything for them and they would have been tired of being taken advantage of. that is my only warning. >> charlie, you don't get anything if you are not in power any more. things can change month to month, day to day, year to year. do you disagree with that? >> no, i don't disagree. the only thing i'll say to bakari in response is, look, it's tragic we can't come to an agreement in the congress on the john lewis voting rights act.
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we reauthorized that '65 voting rights act several times. i voted for it in 2006 when george bush was president. it's tragic that has not been agreed to. they should be able to resolve issues like that, and that's really the breakdown in this country right now, that we can't agree on things that we have always been able to agree on. i think the democrats have overreached on the other voting rights bill, hr 1. that's a stretch. it was always a messaging bill. never meant to become law. we should pick our fights better. if i were the democrats, i would push full bore on reauthorizing the voting rights act. >> thank you very much, gentlemen. appreciate it. joining me now, retired general stanley crystal former general in afghanistan and the author of the book risk, a user's guide. we are seeing a real effort by trump and his allies not only to whitewash the sixth, but now he
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claims that he was a real victim of a coup. what is this doing to our democracy in your estimation? >> well, i think it's a serious threat to our democracy. if we think what our strength really derives from, it's our unity. if we go back to the original 13 colonies, benjamin franklin reminded us that separately we could never survive. and so the degree to which we could atomize our population, but then we can bring into question the legitimacy of our democracy, the viability of the republic, that's frightening. you do that in steps. it doesn't happen all at once. you undermine it, it's very dangerous. >> you are outspoken about this because this is what you said in january. you compared the insurrection to al qaeda, the big lie that drove them there, a lie stronger than ever. are you worried we could see more attacks like the insurrection, maybe worse? >> well, i am.
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i think what we've this is an explosion in the effectiveness of the information technology. some of it is social media, just some others. what that's done, it's given us a tool that is more powerful than we as a society are yet mature enough to handle. so what's happened is the ability to spread misinformation and disinformation is so much easier and we found that it's so powerful. it's always been powerful in history, but now we can reach more people in real time. we can make it more effective. and that can leverage people to do things that i think are ill informed, but also very dangerous. >> you know what? if he runs in 2024, is he going to be rallying up supporters, even more of these lies, with even more lies and kinds of rhetoric? is that the threat to our national security? >> i think the threat is that every politician is now going to school on this now. and so those that are more extreme are going to look at
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that playbook and say that they can follow it. so i think it won't just be a single political leader. and it will be from both sides, people who determined that this is the way to do it, we'll try to leverage that tool. and, of course, once you get in there, you get into almost an arms race of lies potentially, and that could really undercut the viability of the election. >> you know, with very few exceptions, republican officials are lining up to support trump even as we learn more details about his attempts to stay in power. how does this look to our allies and our enemies abroad? >> it's interesting. we talk about the power of the united states and the military used to talk about being the tip of the spear. i would also argue our diplomats are tip of the spear and some of our news people and so are business people. but the real strength of a spear doesn't lie in the tip. it lies in the shaft. the weight and strength of the shaft. the ability to put power behind what you do.
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countries around the world can watch the united states and they can sense if we're divided. they can sense that if we are not willing to come behind the policies of whatever administration is in power and to stay focused. they will almost smell out our weakness and this is not a time in the world when we want to be weak economically, politically, or militarily. >> there are alarming things happening between china and taiwan. taiwan showcasing missiles at their national day celebration. a war of words between leaders. how concerned are you that china will move to retake taiwan and what should the u.s. be doing to prevent that? >> i think we need to take it very seriously. there is a danger that because it's been 72 years since the nationalist chinese went on to the island and formed a somewhat
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sovereign taiwan, that we take it for granted that will be the case in the future. in reality, the chinese have always held the mainland chinese, people's republic of china, held that they will eventually reunify. it really wasn't within their military pow doerpower to do th until now. we have significant military capability in the pacific, but they have reached the point where there is a question mark there. and that question mark is around whether we are willing to pay the price to do the defense of taiwan. if they can do two things, create in the mind of people a certain idea of inevitability that china will reunify and they can convince us that the price would be too high that something we're unwilling to pay, suddenly it becomes very realistic and very dangerous in the near term, particularly for miscalculation. >> there is only so much wisdom you can impart in your interview. your book is about leadership
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and handling risk from the pandemic to the assault on our democracy. the u.s. is dealing with crises after crises. what codo we need from our leads right now, general? >> yeah, what i think we need for leaders is probably what we've always need bud maybe just need it more. we need clarity of communication. we need constant communication with what we believe to be accurate information. admitting what we don't know at the time. we need a clear narrative, what we're about, what we stand for, and that narrative has to be matched by behaviors. we need the courage in leaders to make tough decisions. in cases like covid-19, in a pandemic, you have to make decisions before the exponential growth of infection gets in front of it. that means that often a leader will take risks. they will ask a population or a nation to pay for something or do something that isn't apparently necessary yet to people. and yet, that leader, because
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they are the leader, has that responsibility. i think leaders also need to be an example. so they've got to be willing to listen. they've got to be willing to learn. they've got to be willing to adapt their positions. and whether it gets tough they have got to be willing to stand up and lead. i think that we have had a lot of good leaders show up in the last couple of years, particularly covid-19. they are spread around the country, but it's not uniform. it's not enough, and think we, as the american people, have yet decided we are going to celebrate and support all the right leaders. >> general, again, congratulations on the book. i can't wait to finish reading it. thank you so much. the book is "risk: a user's guide." and here is our breaking news tonight. a top nfl coach resigning after misogynistic and racist emails come to light. former nfl linebacker emanuel ach cha weighs in next. feeling stressed in your skin? not with olay retinol body wash.
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jon gruden renieng as a head coach of the las vegas raiders in the wake of reports how he used misogynistic and anti-gay language in numerous emails over multiple years. we will talk about that. joining me now former nfl linebacker and sports analyst emmanuel acho. thank you, sir. how you doing? >> i'm doing great, my friend. thanks for having me. >> let's lay this out. i want you to jump in here. gruden admitted to using a rachel trope in 2011 in an email and "the times" is reporting that roger goodell, he called him a faggot and clueless anti-football p uss y. he denounced the emergence of women as referees and the drafting of a gay player. as you put it, he attacked everybody. a black man, gay people, women, concussion protocol. you said there was -- he had no choice but to resign.
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>> no choice. he was -- jon gruden was homophobic, misogynistic, racially insensitive. he was perverted. remember he sent topless photos of the washington football team to the president of the washington national team. at the point you are a pervert, a homophobe. a misogynistic and anti-black, you're left with nothing. and jon gruden needed to resign. it's imperative he resigned and i'm glad he resigned. >> let me read. this is a statement. i resigned as head coach of the las vegas raiders. i love the raiders thank you to the players, coaches, staff and fans of raider nation. i am sorry. i never meant to hurt anyone. you say, look, this is the whole thing when people when we talk about cancel culture. and i hate that term cancel culture because it can be accountability culture. people are saying that kbrooud is getting canceled. you say this is accountability, not cancel.
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tell me what you're thinking. >> it's not that jon gruden never meant to hurt anyone. it's that jon gruden never meant to get caught. here is why jon gruden was not canceled but rather held accountable, because jon gruden said i don't have a blade of racism in me, closed quote. what does that mean, don? that means if he was racist while not having racism in him, then he has done nothing over the last decade to fix his racism. if he was misogynistic while not having misogyny in him, he did not work. if he was homophobic, not having a blade of homophobia in him, he has done nothing to fix his issues. it's not a matter of being canceled. it's realizing that jon gruden is today who he was in 2011 and the reason i can say that confidently is because he is ignorant of who he was in 2011. thus, he has done nothing to fix or change or mature as an individual. so this is not being canceled. this is being held accountable and the accountability is he has
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no place in the national football league. >> but we look at this, and i talked to bob costas about this. the national football league runs deep in our society. it is a reflection of what's happening in the larger culture and you see this in our politics and in our culture today. people all the time, emmanuel, saying i am not racist. donald trump says i am the least racist person, what have you. and i have said there is a new racism not knowing that you are racist or denying there is racism because he said in is not who i am. he said it over and over last night. >> i say this. i say there is a difference between being racist and racially ignorant. at a minimum jon gruden was racially ignorant and racially insensitive. at minimum jon gruden was ignorant of mississippi oggy. at worst he is racist and misogynistic and homophobic. let's clarify the delineation between the two. but in 2011 jon gruden was still 48 years of age.
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at the point in which you are saying that the vice president of the -- rather the director of the nfl players association, a pb black man, demaurice smith has lips the size of michelin tires, you can't plead ignorance. you are grown. >> and questioning his intelligence. but go on. >> you know as well as i do black people have been mocked and ridiculed for centuries because of the size of their lips. i said this. you wouldn't make a mama joke about somebody whose mom is dead. you would have cognition of what jokes you can and cannot use based on the audience you are speaking to. if we can be real for a second. this is a bigger nfl issue. this is why there needs to be more minorities in position of power, more minority voices because there was literal rampant ignorance laced throughout that email. let's also be real. bruce allen clearly did something to allow jon gruden to feel comfortable speaking to him in that manner. jon gruden is taking the -- he is the fall guy.
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but you allow someone a level of comfort to speak to you in such a manner. >> i asked bob costas about that. he said maybe he is not getting the heat because he is no longer involved, no longer a manager. so john allen. >> i agree with that. i think that brewers allen -- >> bruce allen, sorry. >> that's why jon gruden also resigned. jon gruden said, wait a second, if i resign, i will no longer get more heat. >> can we get -- i want a question. i have to ask emmanuel this before we move on here. so here's the thing. espn is reporting following the revelations here of gruden's racially insensitive email, derek carr said the team rallied around him, and i quote, us as a team we are like, yeah, coach, it was ten years ago. we love you, man. we got your back, carr said. we're just trying to be there to support coach. i know it's a hard time for him. he told us, men learn from my
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mistake. when we left that meet we go didn't take it as how it came out. okay. so i wanted that quote. that's why i asked them to go to question four here. the team supported him. but gruden had to know all of these terrible things that he said and, i mean, maybe he thought they weren't going to come out, but he had to know that when he was asking the players -- or when he was denying this and the players stood up for him. >> here's what we need to be more cognizant of in society. just because someone treats you right doesn't mean they treat everybody right. jon gruden, of course he treated his star quarterback earning $125 million, of course he treated him with the utmost respect, thickly publicly. because someone is kind and respectful to you does not mean that they are a kind and respectful person. i understand the raiders wanting to defend their head coach, but if jon gruden, who a head coach and was the face of monday night football on espn speaking to
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13.3 million weekly or 221 million people annually, he was the face of large-scale entities like that, think about what currently exists in the nfl society. >> yeah. emmanuel, i love hearing from you. your book, "new york times" bestseller, uncomfortable conversations with a black man, correct? >> yes, sir. >> people should pick up a copy of that because they could learn. thank you. >> thank you. a former facebook employee speaking to cnn warning the company's contributing to havoc around the world with dictators using the platform to manipulate people. she speaks out here. that's next.
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serves up harmful couldn't tent to young losers. she says it creates national security concerns. now frances haugen is getting ready to speak with the social network's own independent oversight board. the question is will the company actually make any changes and will they want to meet with any others who are raising flags? others like sophie, a former facebook employee speaking out to cnn about how dictators exploit the platform. donie ov'sullivan has more. >> it was frustrating for me. i started losing sleep because i should not have been the person in this position. and, frankly, i was the wrong person for this position. i am not charismatic, i am not good at attracting or receiving attention. i am an intro lyin that received media attention based on my work. >> reporter: there is a lot of similarity between you and frances haugen. in both cases facebook is saying you were low-level employees and also that, frankly, neither of you whoe what you are about. >> the people can decide who more credible. >> reporter: she was fired by baby last year. the company told her because of performance issues. facebook offered you $64,000 as part of that. you chose not to sign that agreement in. >> yes. >> reporter: she wrote a 7800
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word memo details how facebook was contributing to havoc around the world. she felt like she had blood on her hands. she was expect facebook to remove the memo from the internal company system so she posted it on her personal website but then facebook asked her website's hosting service to take the memo down, claiming it contained proprietary information. facebook shut down your website. >> first they went to my hosting server and got them to take it down. then my domain registry towed me they took down my domain, too. >> reporter: that seems an extraordinary move to me. >> absolutely. i am annoyed i never got my website back. nobody wants to make an enemy of facebook. >> reporter: they said it contains sensitive information that could have been used by people trying to get around facebook's safety systems. the spokesperson said facebook invested 13 billion in safety and security and 40,000 people are reviewing content in 50 languages across the world adding we have also taken down
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over 150 networks seeking to manipulate public debates since 2017 and originated in 50 countries with the majority coming from or focused outside of the u.s. the track record shows we crack down abuse abroad with the same intensity we apply in the u.s. >> i believe facebook's consistent understaffing of the counterespionage information and counterterrorism team is a national security issue. >> reporter: despite facebook saying they are investing billions, both whistleblowers say the company isn't spending enough to fight hate and misinformation. i think people find that shocking on an area as important as this that facebook is understaffed. >> that speaks to facebook's priorities at the end of the day. >> all right. and there he is, donie o'sullivan. good to see you. so sophie spoke with you. is she willing to testify about her experience at facebook in front of congress? >> yeah. sophie is willing to testify. she also told us she has handed
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over some documents about facebook. she wouldn't officespecify whica law enforcement agency. but she is eager to speak and as you heard share her story. >> i mentioned another whistleblower right before your reporting, frances haugen. we have been talking -- we have been reporting on her for the past week or so. she is meeting with facebook's oversight board in the coming weeks. how do you think that's going to go? >> yeah, it's going to be interesting. i am sure facebook given all that happened last week and all the attention they got negative press, they would like there all to go away and for us to forget about frances haugen. but she in the next few weeks is due to appear before parliament in the u.k. i believe she is being to brussels. she is also going in front of that facebook oversight board, a quasi independent board of experts that facebook set up to try make decisions about its platform. also possibly most importantly in the u.s., she may in the coming weeks be giving testimony
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or at least speaking to staff on the january 6th select committee that is looking into the insurrection again to talk about that very, very important period between last year's election and the insurrection and what facebook did and didn't do and what it did and didn't know about what was being organized, stop the steal and the big lie being pushed in the lead up to january 6th. >> we love your reporting. thank you. appreciate it. my next guest spent 2020 convincing black men to vote and he says it would be harder to do today. why president biden is losing support among black men. we dive into it next.
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approval is sliding with black voters. did you hear that? president biden's approval sliding with black voters and he has yet to deliver on key agenda items that many of those voters support. remember this from the president's victory speech? >> especially those moments and especially those moments where this campaign was at its lowest eb, the african american community stood up again for me. you always had my back and i'll have yours. >> so joining me w. mondale robinson, founder of the black male voters project. thank you, sir. i want to get as much time with you as possible. you were getting people registered, getting them to the polls. you are still out there talking to voters. he said he had black voters' backs. is that proven to you true? >> not yet, don.
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unfortunately, i think it's extremely nerve-racking that we are at this point this far into a president's administration and we've not seen them deliver on anything we were promised, big things like voting rights act or criminal justice reform in a real way, especially since these are the reasons that motivated so many black men to participate in politics for the first time ever. >> yeah. so but you know -- this is his approval rating among black voters, okay, across the country. plummeted nearly 20 points between july and september. so the question is, look, can it bounce back? if he delivers some of these things, do you think it is gone -- it is gone? what do you think? >> i don't think it's gone completely. there is an opportunity for it to bounce back, but in order for it to bounce back he has to start negotiating with republicans and conservative democrats to show up, do what's best and what motivates people. >> i have been saying that all
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along, but everyone says, well, he's got to do and that, he doesn't have the numbers and he's got to convince these people to that. they don't want to work with him. they are never going to work with him. go on. what do you say to that? >> i say it's capped, don. for people that don't, it's lies. it's fake. they absolutely have enough power because they control the senate. they control the house. and they are in the white house. so they absolutely can do exactly what they promised. they don't have the nerve, the backbone do it. when we see republicans in power, not controlling all three houses, mitch mcconnell stopped an entire democratic nominee for the supreme court being nominated for an entire year because he wanted to. the democrats showing black people they don't want to show up for us and it's dangerous. >> there are people trying to put the fear of god into black folks, especially black men, trump could return. does that even register?
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>> don, black men don't bla t boogie monster in politics. you know, proverbial church fan and fried chicken not really with the will or gall to do what's necessary to do our lot in life. you're going to be back and we're going to talk about this more. i appreciate you. you keep up the great work. >> you got
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cnn's andrew kaczynski. this is beans, a 9-month-old daughter he lost to a brain tumor last year. he dedicated each mild to a different child who battled or is battling childhood cancer at dana farber cancer institute in boston, whose doctors treated francesca. our love goes out to andrew and his wife, all of us at "don
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john berman here, in for anderson. one of the joys of this job used to be wondering what the new day -- no plug intended -- would bring. not anymore. now, it's watching headlines like these pop up. quote, here's why you should be worried about u.s. democracy right now. that's from political analyst zach wolf and, yeah, it's a thing. >> the ding dongs who sacked the capitol last year.


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