tv State of the Union with Jake Tapper and Dana Bash CNN October 10, 2021 9:00am-10:00am PDT
friend or foe? a whistleblower says facebook is putting their profits over your safety. >> i believe facebook's products harm children, stoke division and weaken our democracy. >> what needs to change? i'll speak to top facebook executive nick clegg and facebook critic amy klobuchar, next. plus, do your job. as democratic leaders struggle to pass their priorities,
democratic candidates are feeling the pressure. one democrat on the ballot next month has a tough message for the president and his party in washington. virginia gubernatorial candidate terry mcauliffe joins me ahead. plus, evidence suggests the delta surge is beginning to slow. where is the u.s. now in the fight against covid-19? i'll ask dr. anthony fauci in moments. hello, i'm dana bash in washington where the state of our union is wondering if it's safe to scroll. the world got a new reminder this week of how reliant we are on social media and how social media can heighten or amplify users' darkest impulses. lawmakers are now vowing to act, and add that to washington's very long list of promises, including president biden's top priorities which remain mired in inter-party feuds. there is evidence that this string of delayed promises is
weighing down on democrats trying to win in state races across the country. coming up, we're going to talk to the former head of the democratic party, terry mcauliffe, trying to get his old job back as virginia governor. but i want to begin with this week's revelations about facebook. francis hougen, whistleblower at facebook, released thousands of pages of documents. she testified before congress that facebook's products, quote, harm children, stoke division and weaken our democracy. she went on to blame the country for refusing to take steps to help users. >> the company's leadership knows how to make facebook and instagram safer but won't make the changes necessary because they have put their astronomical profits before people. congressional action is needed. they won't solve this crisis without your help. >> joining me now is facebook's top spokesman, vice president of global affairs, nick clegg.
mr. clegg, thanks so much for joining me. >> let's start with whistle-blower frances haugen's testimony to congress this week. she said instagram harms children. she detailed a lot of troubling findings from internal reports, including that almost one in five u.s. teenagers who use instagram say instagram makes them feel very or somewhat worse about themselves. is that acceptable to you? >> no, i don't think it should be acceptable to anyone if a teenager is in distress and feels more so when they use any form of communication. but, of course, what francis hougen was talking about, what that internal discussion paper was referring to is something i think everybody has known for a long time. external researchers have confirmed this for some time, which is for the overwhelming majority of teenagers, actually using instagram is a positive experience even when they're suffering from sleeplessness, anxiety, depression and so on,
it either makes no difference or actually makes them feel better. i think any parent watching this would intuitively understand if a teenager isn't feeling good about themselves, when they compare themselves to others, for a majority of the time it might maim them feel a bit worse. this is precisely why we do the research. we can't change human nature. human nature, of course, you always compare yourself to others, particularly those more fortunate than yourself, but we can change our product which is exactly what we're doing, of course. >> i want to get into that. i understand what you're saying. i have a folder here full of the research that you're talking about that was released, and i understand it is a minority of users. but these are vulnerable children. what are you doing to change that, to change the way that you operate your platform so that those minority, as small as they are, don't feel the way they feel when they use it?
>> first thing is we've paused work on something called instagram kids. we actually think that's part of the solution, but we understand the concerns are such that we need to press pause, consult with experts, listen to others and explain our intentions and so on. in the meantime we're going to introduce new controls for adults of teens on an optional basis, obviously, so adults can supervises what their teens are doing online. secondly, we're going to introduce something which we think will make a considerable difference, which is where the teen is looking at the same content over and over again, and its content which may not be conducive so their well-being, we'll nudge them to look at other content. and the third additional, new measure is introducing something called take a break, where we'll be prompting teens to simply take a break from using instagram. i think these are exactly the kind of things which are in line with ongoing work we've been doing in cooperation with
experts for many years, that we clearly want to redouble our efforts going forward. >> what you just listed, these are things you're going to do in the future or things that you already have in place? because this survey was published internally two years ago. >> yeah, we've done many things, of course, since then, which is precisely why we do the research. >> but have you already implemented what you just listed, or is that going to happen in the future, things like nudging children away from harmful content? >> i was asking your question. you asked what we're going to do. those are our future plans. what we've done since that research, we've constantly introduced new tools, for instance, so that people could hide certain words, can make sure they're not connected with people they don't want to be connected with, to limit their contact with people who they don't want to be connected to. we now provide automatic prompts where someone -- if someone, for instance, is looking at material related to eating disorders, they'll get prompts on their feeds to guide them towards helpful information, resources from experts and specialist organizations who can help them.
this is obviously a journey. we're all on this journey. the fact that over the last 10 to 15 years, millions of they were not before means we all face this challenge together. we have no incentive other than trying to make that experience as positive and safe as possible. >> frances haugen says your incentive is profit, your bottom line, and continuing to line the pockets of the people who work there. what's your response to that? >> i don't think a company that only places profit above everything else would do what we've done. we've invested in the last several years $13 billion in this kind of work, in making sure that our platform is safe to use. $13 billion, to put that in context, is more than the total revenue of twitter over the last four years. we now have 40,000 people, that's more than twice the number of staff who work on capitol hill, who work on these issues.
we do well-beating research to understand the complex interaction between individuals, the individual circumstances of their lives and the use of social media, and we are constantly iterating to improve our product. we can't make everyone's life perfect. what we can do is improve our product so it's safe and enjoyable to use wherever we can improve them. >> i want to talk about some potential solutions in a moment, but first i have to ask, francis haugen is poised to meet with the jan auary 6th committee. you said only those who broke the law around january 6th are responsible. did facebook's algorithms amplify or spread pro-insurrection voices ahead of january 6? >> let me be clear, because there's been a lot of, i think, misleading discussion about what the algorithms do. there are hundreds and thousands of them in facebook as much as there are in many online
companies. but what the ranking algorithms do, in other words, that's the crucial algorithms that help decide what you see more prominently on your news feed, on facebook, than other pieces of content. if you remove the algorithms, which i think is with frances haugen, is one of her central recommendations. what you would see is more, not less, hate speech, more, not less, algorithms. these work as giant spam filter to identify and deprecate bad content. we need to remember that technology, of course it has downsides, but it also has very positive effects. >> but my question is specifically about january 6th. did the algorithms that are in place amplify pro insurrection voices ahead of january 6th? yes or no.
>> given we have thousands of algorithms and millions of people using this, i can't give you an answer for individual personalized feeds that each person uses. we work with law enforcement, of course, to give them content that might show up on our platform. january 6, the responsibility for that is the people who broke the law, who inflicted the violence, who aided and abetted them, who encouraged them, both in politics and the media. >> i get that, and i don't think anybody is saying anything different. but is it a problem that you're not really sure if your platform allowed it to fester and amplify what ended up as this huge attack? >> what i was simply saying is that the algorithm, the whole point, of course, of facebook is that each person's news feed is individual to them. it's like an individual fingerprint, and that's basically determined by the interaction of your choices, your friends, your family, the groups you choose to be part of and those ranking algorithms
that i referred to earlier. what i can say is where we see content we think is relevant to the investigations of law enforcement, of course, we cooperate with them. but if i may, if our algorithms are so nefarious as some people suggest, why is it that it's precisely those systems that have succeeded to reduce hate speech, the prevalence of hate speech on our platforms to as little as 0.05%? that means that for every 10,000 bits of content, you would only see 5 bits of hate speech. i wish we could limit it to zero. we have a third of the world ooes population on our platforms, we'll see the good, the bad, the ugly on the platforms. >> i want to get to some solutions. i know you said in the future you are going to have a voluntary option for parents to have more control over their children on your platforms. do you support legislation requiring parental consent for children under 16 to use social
media? >> of course we -- if lawmakers want to set down rules for us and for tiktok and youtube and twitter about exactly how young people should operate online, of course we'll abide by the law. i think it's right that this is a subject of great bipartisan interest and discussion, because there is nothing more important than any of us than our kids. i think, by the way, regulation would be useful in many, many areas, too. >> let me ask another specific question on that. i have specifics because i think it's important. do you support legislation allowing regulators access to these algorithms that you've been talking about, access to facebook algorithms, the ones they use to amplify content to users? should regulators have access to those algorithms? >> i think broadly the answer is yes. we need greater transparency so the systems we have in place, as i alluded to earlier, including not only the 40,000 people we
employ on this but also the multibillion dollar investments we've made into algorithm systems, machine learning systems, they should be held to account if necessary by regulation, so people can match what our systems say they should do from what actually happens. as i said earlier, with the best will in the world, you can't design regulation that intervenes in realtime in the way that human beings interact every millisecond of the day with those algorithms. but in terms of transparency, yes. >> do you support section 230, the section 230 that holds people to liability, from people with posts that get amplified due to engagement? >> i do think section 230 should be changed. let me suggest a better way. section 230, as you know, gives online platforms protection from liability for the content that
passes on their platforms. i think the way to perhaps change section 230, my suggestion would be to make that protection which is afforded to online companies like facebook, contingent on them applying the systems and their policies as they're supposed to. and if they fail to do that, they would then have that liability protection removed. that seems to us, at least, perhaps a sensible change to consider to section 230. >> one last question before i let you go. for our viewers watching right now, most of them use your platforms. how much time do you recommend they spend on facebook, on instagram a day? >> i think it varies from person to person. it's like everything good in life. i would do it in moderation. i think everybody needs to decide, of course, for themselves, but it's like everything that you enjoy. do it in moderation, would be my personal suggestion, but that's my general guide for many things in life.
>> nick clegg, i very much appreciate your time coming on and taking my questions. thank you so much. >> thank you. up next, the critic of facebook, senator amy klobuchar, joins me on why this time congress may -- underscore may -- actually take action to rein in the tech giant. we'll talk to someone currently on the ballot, virginia's democratic nominee for governor, terry mcauliffe will be here.
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top lawmakers looking to rein in social media, senator amy klobuchar of minnesota. senator, you just heard nick clegg lay out potential policy changes for facebook. are you satisfied with what he wants to do, and what are the things congress should do right now? >> first off, i appreciate that he's willing to talk about things, but i believe the time for conversation is done and the sometime for action is now. basically for so long the social media companies have been saying, and the other tech platforms, trust us, we got this. look where we are now. the guy down the street tells me his mother-in-law won't get a vaccine because she read on social media that it would implant a microchip in her arm. we know that the majority of people that aren't getting vaccines read stuff on these platforms. we know about the violent content. we know about the kids who have been reading things and been exposed to accounts that are
already done on that must be improved. and finally, the algorithms, transparency, doing more to reform what's happening out there. i'm just tired of hearing "trust us," and it's time to protect those moms and dads that have been struggling with their kids getting addicted to these platforms and being exposed to all kinds of bad stuff. >> senator, section 230, which is the law that shields internet companies from liability or content posted online, that was written in 1996. my cell phone was the size of a football. mark zuckerberg was 11. he didn't even have his bar mitzvah at that point let alone anything else. why has congress failed to do anything to keep up with the times and regulate these companies? >> let me say, they are immune from these lawsuits and the profits -- >> why is congress not up for this? >> i do think it's important to step back one second. i'll get to why. i went to see the james bond movie yesterday which was great,
and i was there with my family and i thought, okay, so if someone yelled "fire" in this theater, it's not protected speech, right? but what if -- and the theater isn't responsible for it, but what if the theater had speakers and they amplified it in every single theater in the multiplex. they would be responsible, right? they would be responsible if they put that kind of bad content out. facebook is not. that's why i have a bill that -- at least with miss information about vaccines to say, you are responsible if you're amplifying this and putting it out there. why haven't we reformed this? why haven't we looked at this immunity in any serious way? because every corner you go around, there are tech lobbyists, money that they're have made it so that lawmakers are listening to them instead of listening to the facts. and i think it's time to listen to people like francis haugen, the incredibly courageous
whistleblower that came forward, and not be afraid to take action anymore. other countries are. >> i want to ask real quick because i want to get to other issues. you said as part of your answer you should break up facebook, but if facebook and whatsapp and instagram were split up into three different companies, wouldn't they just compete with each other and make the environment more harmful? >> i like competition, i believe in capitalism. breaking up facebook will be done by the attorney general's office. we're not going to do that by law, but what i think has been lacking here is any serious review of these mergers, not just with facebook, with all of these tech companies, with pharmaceutical companies, our anti-trust laws are a shadow of their former selves. we need to make sure we have a market solution to some of these things. i believe the market could reply to some of this, but we're not allowing them to, because there are big and dominant platforms that don't allow for competition. >> there are a lot of other issues i want to get to.
the new report from the judiciary committee, details former president trump's attempts to overturn the 2020 election. how close did the u.s. come to a real constitutional crisis? >> as we know now, we know he brought the lawsuits that the courts rejected all over this country. we know he tried to convince local election officials to steal votes, which they refused. we now know that at least nine times he pressured the justice department of the united states. officials had taken an oath, not to donald trump, but to the constitution. he pressured them to do the same. and in his own words, according to notes from the meeting, he basically said that, say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me. those were his words. for the most part, they resisted, and that's what we found out from the report, and the report is important because it creates some new information that we didn't have before from people like acting attorney general rosen. that information will be very
helpful to the january 6 committee that's going on over in the house that's going to look at all of this. >> let me ask you about that january 6 committee. the former president directed some of his former aides not to cooperate with that committee. at least once, steve bannon, says he's going to deny the city's subpoenas. you are a leading democratic on the judiciary committee. do you think merrick garland's justice department should get involved quickly and enforce those subpoenas aggressively? >> that's going to be merrick garland's decision -- >> what do you think? >> yes, i think subpoenas have to be enforced, and for steve bannon to claim he had executive privilege when he wasn't even in the executive office during january 6, that is absolutely absurd, and most legal analysts would agree with me on that. >> real quick, i want to ask about the $3.5 trillion deal or potential deal reconciliation
that is before you guys. joe manchin, rather, senator manchin has reportedly said he wants progressives to choose between expanded family leave, child care expanded child tax credit? are you willing to lose any of those in order to get this deal done? >> i'm not going to negotiate this on tv. that is going on right now. and we are becoming -- we are coming closer and closer to an agreement on this. the bipartisan infrastructure bill that's so important, i know you'll hear former governor and future governor mcauliffe talking about this on the show, that is really important infrastructure for our country. the second piece of this is what i think of as the people first agenda, making sure we make it easier for people to afford prescription drugs and child care and make sure that billionaires are paying taxes and that's how we pay for it. that's the second part. we're getting closer to an agreement. we now have the next month to get it done, and i know senator
manchin, i know the people involved in this, i've been in the room. we will get these bills done. >> senator, thank you so much for joining me this morning. >> thank you, dana. he says president biden is unpopular and democrats in congress are dragging their feet. tell us how you really feel. democratic nominee for virginia governor, terry mcauliffe, will do that next. - i got you this... - the new iphone 13 pro! just for me? - well, actually, verizon is giving one to everyone when they trade in their old or damaged phone. - okay, so every sister can get this? - every customer, new and old, can get an iphone 13 pro on us. plus up to $500 when you switch. - ahhh! - ahhh! >> tech: when you get a chip in your windshield... trust safelite. this couple was headed to the farmers market... when they got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service the way you need it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ people were afraid i was contagious. i felt gross. it was kind of a shock after i started cosentyx. four years clear. real people with psoriasis look and feel better with cosentyx.
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in fact, he's former head of the democratic national party, senator terry mcauliffe. as he fights against republican candidate glenn youngkin, political strategists are taking note. governor, thanks so much for coming in. as you know, virginia has been trending blue for years. democrats control both legislative chambers. donald trump lost the commonwealth of virginia by 10 points in 2020. the latest poll shows that you have a very slim lead over your republican opponent. why aren't you running away with it? >> first of all, this is an off-off year. it's not a presidential year turnout. turnouts go from 70% to somewhere in the 40s. we're going to win this race because i'm right on the issues. i'm running against a donald trump wannabe who wants to cut
education $10 billion, 43,000 teachers cut. he wants to do a donald trump/betsy devos education system. i'm going to invest in education. i'm going to raise teacher pay. i'm going to do broadband for every child in virginia and help at-risk 3 and 4-year-olds. i'm going to use 2024 to get us out of this crisis. i did it before, built a boom in the economy. 200,000 new jobs, personal income went up 14% and i did it in a bipartisan way. that's why so many republicans have endorsed me in this campaign. >> you have a long relationship with president biden. >> you bet. >> you endorsed him in the primary, you campaigned with him back in july. >> yes. >> your tone shifted pretty dramatically since then. i want our viewers to listen. >> can you imagine what we can get done for virginia as joe biden as president, and i'm back
as governor? this state is going to take off like a booster rocket, let me tell you that, folks! >> we are facing a lot of headwinds from washington. as you know, the president is unpopular today, unfortunately, here in virginia, so we have got to plow through. >> what changed? >> listen, you know i'm a very straight shooter, i'm very authentic. i call them as i see them and i think that's why people like working with me. i'm very straight. we've got frustration with washington. why haven't we passed this infrastructure bill? it passed the u.s. senate with 69 votes two months ago. i have been very straight in on television. we're tired of the chitty-chat in washington. get into a room and get it figured out. they're worried about minimum wage, they want child care, elderly care, paid sick leave, family medical leave, which i will tell you my opponent is against of one of those things. i am for that.
they want to get the job done. they're paid to get up in washington, get this done, and the frustration is why isn't it done by now? 69 votes in the senate two months ago. get it done this week. do your job. >> i notice you don't say washington, and you don't say democrats. as you well know, you're talking about the democratic president you helped elect and a democratically controlled congress. you're frustrated with your own party. are they dragging you down? >> it's not dragging me down, i worry about the people of virginia. >> but they're making it harder for you? >> you know, hard or not, people understand what i'm doing, my plans, my 20 big plans to take virginia to the next level, so they're going to vote for me, but there is frustration all over the country. we just want action. that's why, as i say, so many republicans have endorsed me. bill kristol, dave ramadan, a conservative tea party member. this is what i want them to do in washington. democrats and republicans when i was governor, let's figure this out. no one is leaving the room until
we get there. >> should president biden do that? we're talking about differences among democrats in his own party. >> everyone should get in the room. this is my style and we're not leaving the room until we do it. >> do you want president biden to do that? >> i would love if he did that. i had bipartisan agreement on transportation, veterans. i got 70-plus percent of my bills passed when i was governor. people just want things done. covid has been tough on so many families. i have a plan to get us out of this. my opponent is a trump wanna be, has been endorsed by donald trump. he wants to go on the offense on abortions. he has said the number one issue, election integrity. he said two days ago he wants an audit of our voting machines. i wonder why donald trump hasn't come to virginia. everything trump says, this guy
is in on. >> let me ask you about a comment you made in your last debate. >> i'm not going to let parents come into schools and take books out and make their own decision. i don't think parents should be telling schools what they should teach. >> the context of that would have allowed parents to ban sexually explicit books in schools. >> first of all, ban any book. >> let me finish my question. the question is the fact that you are getting pummelled by republicans who say it shows that you don't think parents should have a say in their children's education. so my question is, do you think parents should have a say in their children's education? >> of course, and they do. they don't like some rules and they get rid of them. parents overwhelmingly support me on education. why? i put a billion dollars in as governor before, i redid all of
our schools, i got rid of five sols. i have a very serious plan on education, a $2 billion investment, raising teacher pay, getting at-risk 3 and 4-year-olds pre-k. everyone has access to broadband. glenn youngkin, 43,000 teachers we're down 1,100 teachers. in addition it is a donald trump/betsy devos plan of moving money from public to private. i will never allow that as governor. that's why parents support me. >> when you say parents should have a say, is that say strictly how they vote on the school board? >> clearly they have a say to be involved in the school boards that they pick and so forth, but they want to know are their children getting a world class education. i did that last time i was governor. let's be clear, in virginia, we're fourth in the country on k-12. we're number one in the country on higher ed. we have a great education system. the issue is, and he's trying to
do a back door deal on with trump, he talks about a critical race theory. that's a dog whistle. we don't have critical race theory taught in virginia. he brings up this donald trump/devos thing on education. i hate to see people divided. i am a uniter. i got us out of the worse economic chaos before. i'll do it again with covid, and i'll do it in a bipartisan way. >> i'm glad you brought up critical race theory and you call it a dog whistle, but it seems to be working somewhat in virginia. the "washington post" talked to a number of voters, including one who previously backed democrats, one who voted for you in 2013 but now says, quote -- now is switching over to republican glenn youngkin because he believes public schools are pushing a radical agenda in which american history is portrayed as racist and transgender kids are encouraged to use the bathroom of their choice. so you lost that voter. what do you say to him?
>> i hate to see what glenn young kin is going to try to do to virginia. i really hate to see the division, the hatred. we're putting these children in this horrible position. let's just be clear. we don't teach critical race theory. this is a made-up trump/betsy devos/glenn youngkin plan to divide people. it really bothers me. i try to unite people. i want to give every child regardless of who you love, the color of your skin and whom you pray to, i'm going to build the greatest education system. but elected glenn youngkin, dog whistles, creating racist -- it's horrible what he has done. he will take money from public schools and put them in private and 43,000 teachers will be cut. read the "washington post." i didn't say it, they said it. >> i want to ask about another issue. you mentioned donald trump -- i'm glad i have two cups here so i can keep drinking when you mentioned donald trump's name.
you accused your opponent of playing into the big lie of campaign integrity. i want to play some of your comments over the years on the election. >> if kathryn harris, jeb bush, jim baker and the supreme court hadn't tampered with the results, al gore would be president! folks, you know it, i know it, they know it, we won that election! we actually won the last presidential election, folks. they stole the last presidential election! >> so, you know, you're being criticized for saying, wait a minute. the republicans are questioning election integrity when that's exactly what you did multiple times in more than one election. >> first of all, the 2000 election went to the united states supreme court. the united states supreme court shut down the voting, overruled the florida supreme court and stopped the counting of votes. that is quite a difference from what you had in the trump
election where 33, 34 cases, whatever it was, was brought up. republican judges dismissed them. >> i don't mean to suggest -- what happened in 2000 was so different. in 2020, joe biden won full stop. >> fair and square. >> but going back to 2000, do you think the republicans stole that election? >> in 2000, i wish the united states supreme court would let them finish counting the votes. glenn youngkin has run the w whwhole campaign on election integrity. no, i think covid and abortion is. he said we ought to audit all of virginia's voting machines. really? this is all trump talk. i'm surprised trump hasn't come to virginia yet. glenn youngkin has been in bed with him since he started this campaign. he said five times he's been endorsed, he's honored.
he said so much -- after the nomination, so much of the reason i'm running is because of donald trump. let me be clear, virginians. i'm running for you. >> let me ask you, you are the former dnc chair. you were when your party lost control of the senate in 2002. president biden's approval rating is lowest right now of his presidency. david analyst david shore warns this might be the high watermark for democrats in the next decade. i know you're on the ballot in 2021 but put your political hat on. are you concerned about your party's chances in 2022? >> i think obviously a big win here in virginia is very important for our party going forward. i'm the one with the common sense plans. we're not going to the trump charlottesville when donald trump and i talked on the phone, begged him to stop these white supremacists neo-nazis, and he said there were good people on both sides. i do want to thank the president for 14.3 billion to virginia for
the american rescue plan, including 77 million for vaccinations. but here's my message to everyone in washington, pass this infrastructure bill. we are desperate in the states. we need these roads and bridges fixed. let's get the human infrastructure. get in a room, here's what we need and here's what it's going to cost. this should not be so difficult. i had to do this as governor, and i'll say it finally, that is why so many republicans have endorsed me for governor, because i get everybody in a room. i just want to make virginia the best state on education, on health care, i'll lower premiums, i'll bring down prescription drug cost and i'll build a dynamic economy. 200,000 jobs, personal income went up 14%. people are hurting with covid. they need a governor who is going to work in a bipartisan way who has got the experience. he's an anti-vaxer. he's telling people, if you don't want to take it, don't take it. that's disqualifying to the governor. >> terry mcauliffe, thank you for coming in. i appreciate you taking tough questions. on that note, we did invite your republican opponent, glenn youngkin, to come on the show and do the same.
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that is chief medical adviser to president biden, dr. anthony fauci. dr. fauci, more than three of four eligible americans have gotten a vaccine shot. for the first time in more than two months, the u.s. is reporting fewer than 100,000 daily cases. are we at a new hopeful moment in the pandemic? >> well, it's certainly going in the right direction, as you mentioned. the seven-day average of cases is below 100,000, so about 95,000. hospitalizations are down below 10,000, around 7,400 and deaths down below 2,000. they're now around 1,400. it's certainly going in the right direction. that's the good news. hopefully it's going to continue to go in that trajectory downward. but we have to be careful we don't prematurely declare victory in many respects. we still have around 68 million people who are eligible to be vaccinated who have not yet gotten vaccinated.
even those who have been vaccinated, you want to look forward to holiday seasons and spending time with your family and doing those sorts of things but don't just throw your hands up and say it's all over because on the one hand we want to celebrate and look forward we're going down the right direction. but if you look at the history of the surgeries and the diminutions in cases over a period of type, they can bounce back. we don't want to always be on edge it will happen, it won't. if we do what we should be doing, namely getting more people vaccinated. another important point, dana, is right now the data regarding the safety and immunogenicity of vaccines in children is going to be coming before the fda relatively soon, and if they wind up getting vaccinated, you have another segment of the
population that can be protected. >> you mentioned the holidays, thanksgiving and christmas. hard to believe it, they are just around the corner. canada just imposed a vaccine mandate for eligible travelers on airplanes. former president obama's secretary of transportation ray lahood says the white house should push ar lines to mandate vaccines themselves. would you like to see a vaccine mandate in effect for travel for the holidays? >> it depends what you mean. we do now have a situation when people coming in from outside of the country who are not u.s. citizens, they really -- we must require they get vaccinated as well as getting tested before. what the president has done regarding masks i think is important, namely doubling the fine on people who refuse to wear masks on airplanes. on the table is the issue of mandates for vaccines. it's always discussible. we always wind up discussing it. >> do you support it? >> but right now i don't see that immediately. dana, i don't want to say
support or not. it's a decision made by a number of parts of the government, including public health. obviously from a public health standpoint, the more protection you get, the better it is. i don't want to weigh in because we wind up taking people out of context. we have everything on the table to be discussed by the group. >> dr. fauci, it's been 263 days since president biden took office and the food and drug administration still doesn't have a permanent commissioner, still in the middle of a pandemic. the acting chief can only stay in her post until next month. don't you think it's important for the fda to have a permanent senate-confirmed commissioner? >> of course it is, dana. we all know that. there are some candidates that are still being discussed, and hopefully we will have an fda commission in a very reasonable period of time. hopefully quite soon.
but, yes, i agree with you. obviously when you have an agency as important as the food and drug administration, you want to have a permanent head in there as soon as possible. that goes without saying. >> one last question. halloween is just around the corner. a lot of parents are wondering how to trick-or-treat? do they hand out candy? do they walk around with their children? what's your guidance? >> i think that particularly if you're vaccinated, but you can get out there, you're outdoors for the most part, at least when my children were out there doing trick-or-treating, and enjoy it. this is a time that children love. it's a very important part of the year for children. i know my children enjoyed it. so i mean, particularly if you're vaccinated, if you're not vaccinated, again, think about it, that you'll add an extra degree of protection to yourself and your children and your family and your community. so it's a good time to reflect on why it's important to get vaccinated but go out there and enjoy halloween as well as the other holidays that will be coming up. >> i was just told i actually
have a few extra seconds, so i will put this question to you, how long do you think it will be until it's safe for vaccinated people to once again be indoors without a mask? >> you know, i -- it's always tough to predict that. i think if we continue to go down in the cases that we are seeing right now and more and more people get vaccinated, as the dynamics of the outbreak, namely the amount of virus circulating in the community goes down, i hope we will be able to pull back on some of those restrictions to get closer to what we really feel is normal in the community. i hope that's soon, but i can't give a prediction of a date on that, dana. >> what do you need to see? >> well, i need to see the dynamics of the outbreak in the community go way down. right now, even though we just said it's going in the right direction, we have less than 100,000,000 cases a day, it's about 95,000 as a seven-day average, that's still way too high.
we want to get way, way down to that. i would like to see it well below 10,000 and even much lower than that. but when you're at 95,000, that's still situation where you have a high degree of dynamic circulation of virus in the community. >> got it. dr. anthony fauci, thank you for spending time with us this morning. appreciate it and thank you for spending your sunday morning with us. the news continues next. >> tech: when you get a chip in your windshield... trust safelite. this couple was headed to the farmers market... when they got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service the way you need it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪
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this is "gps," the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live from new york. on today's program, the latest nobel peace prize winner, filipino journalist maria ressa. she joins me with her attorney, amal clooney. ressa won, along with a russian counterpart, for their efforts to safeguard freedom of expression. we'll talk about manila's ongoing efforts to silence her and the broader global fight for