tv New Day With John Berman and Brianna Keilar CNN October 5, 2021 5:00am-6:00am PDT
that first all civilian mission to orbit, but this next first, it's going to the russians. 64 years after the soviet union launched the first satellite into orbit, russia is poised to claim another first. the first full length movie to be filmed in space. >> translator: i am not afraid of anything. i just really want us to make a good movie. >> and liftoff. liftoff of soyuz ms-19 with an actress and her producer. >> reporter: the russian actress and the film's director lifted off in a soyuz spacecraft from w kazakhstan and will film at the international space station. the two have been training alongside real cosmonauts for months, from centrifuge tests, to parachute drills, but it was the acronyms that nearly did them in. >> translator: during this time, they tortured us.
they didn't beat us up, though. but made us memorize a lot of unknown abbreviations. >> reporter: the u.s. within the first space race by landing astronauts on the moon, it is losing this race to hollywood ispace. a few months later, russia's space station agency announced its own plans and the head later invited the barons to the launch with a special inveitation for elon musk. >> we are waiting him. >> reporter: no word if musk, bezos or branson responded to the invitation. bezos' blue origin is busy preparing to send hollywood royalty into space, william shatner, the original captain kirk from the star trek franchise who at 90 will be the oldest person to ever fly in space station.
>> scottie, beam me up. >> and shatner is scheduled to fly exactly one week from today and, brianna, you'll notice there captain kirk said scottie, beam me up, not beam me up, scottie. i learned yesterday that that famous line was never actually said, not once, in any of the "star wars" franchise. >> star trek. >> star trek. did i -- >> we know you know what you're talking about. >> i can't believe i just made that error. >> that's okay. we know. we know you know, kristen. you're reporting on space all the time. >> i'm never going to live that down. >> i'm still going to say, beam me up, scottie. >> me too. >> beam me up, scottie. "new day" continues right now.
all right, good morning to our viewers in the united states and all around the world. i'm john berman with brianna keilar. it is tuesday, october 5th. in a couple of hours, an attorney turned whistle-blower, frances haugen, will testify before a senate panel on her explosive allegations that facebook knew of the potential harm it was causing from negative or inflammatory content and lied about their efforts to stop it. cnn obtained an copy of her opening remarks in which she says, quote, facebook wants you to believe that the problems we're talking about are unsolvable. they want you to believe in false choices, that in order to share fun photos of your kids with old friends, you must also be inundated with misinformation. i'm here to tell you today that's not true. these problems are solvable. facebook chooses profit over safety every day and with that action this will continue. >> so her appearance is coming after a massive outage that took facebook and its family of apps including instagram and whatsapp down for six hours yesterday.
facebook's chief technology officer apologizing to users for that. they do say that the outage was caused by a faulty configuration change, and there is no evidence that data was compromised here and with the company under fire, its stock has taken a hit impacting the bottom line. cnn's chief business correspondent christine romans here with that. what's the story here? >> the story is monday was mark zuckerberg's terrible horrible no good day, no smooth sailing here for the facebook founder. his company is accused of hurting american values with a product that hurts people, knows about it and covers it up. this is not a good look. and investors responded, hammering the stock. facebook shares tumbled 5% monday. its worst day of the year. that adds to the losses we have seen from facebook since september. some context here, despite monday's decline, facebook is up 19% this year and has soared an astonishing 753% since it went public back in 2012.
it shows that the facebook business model has been very profitable for investors. the boss owns 14% or so of the company's shares, so monday's sell-off costs mark zuckerberg billions, he lost more than $6 billion as facebook stock tanked. zuckerberg slipped down bloomberg's billionaires index, he's number five on the list, with net worth of just 121 billion that puts
him behind bill gates, john. >> just. just. christine romans, thank you very much. all right, let's talk now with roger macnamee, the author of "zucked: waking up to the facebook catastrophe." thank you so much for being with us, roger. first things first here, what do you think is most significant about what this whistle-blower is revealing? >> so, brianna, frances haugen is so courageous, so authoritative, and so utterly
convincing that i think congress today is in this incredibly difficult position. they no longer have any excuses for inaction. i think the time has come for them to look at safety and to look at privacy as core requirements because this is not just about facebook. this is really about that business model that christine was just talking about, which is something that has been used not just by facebook, but by google, versions of it by amazon and m microsoft and now used throughout the economy. you see it in the automotive sector, healthcare sector and beyond. it is all based on surveillance. it is all based on manipulating people's choices, so that effectively it takes away from us our right to determine the choices in our own lives. and it is so pervasive right now and congress just needs to say, hey, wait a minute, this is like child labor, this is unethical, it is un-american, and we just need to go back to doing things in a way where people get to be
them themselves. >> what did you think about the outage yesterday. it comes as facebook and its apps are under incredible scrutiny and yet here the apps go down for several hours, reminding people that they rely on them so much. we got a technical explanation, what do you think? >> so, brianna, the key thing to understand is this happened inside of facebook. and so it is most likely that it was in fact a badly handled configuration change. but it is a reminder exactly as you said, facebook is a monopoly, and when its utilities, which is to say facebook, instagram and whatsapp go out, that effects hundreds of millions of people every minute that it is out. and billions of people a day. and so -- >> you don't think it was deliberate, though, roger? >> well, i, you know, i don't want to speculate. i don't know. i don't think we'll ever find out unless it was done by some employee who was mad at them who later confesses, we're never
going to find out. so, brianna, i don't think -- to me the key message is this is a monopoly and needs to be regulated as such. and everything that facebook does is a reminder that we have allowed our economy to go from a world that takes the needs of consumers first, to one that basically uses consumers as marks in some kind of scam and you see this all over the economy. and it is really -- i mean, your industry, the news industry has been devastated by this. and it is going on throughout the economy. i think it is the sort of thing that congress was created to do. and we have solved this problem with the food industry at the beginning of the 20th century, we created the fda. we solved this problem with the environmental laws. chemical companies were dump ing toxic waste everywhere. we have seen this problem before. we can handle it. this is congress' job. and they need to start today. >> haugen revealed that the algorithm actually is kind of the boogie man.
she talked about changes made in 2018 to the algorithm, how some of those things were suspended going into the 2020 election, but then how some of the changes were just temporary, they were undone. would mark zuckerberg have to sign off on those decisions about algorithms? >> definitely. let's be clear, the way to think about this is the algorithms are a manifestation of a business model, surveillance capitalism. that term was created by a harvard professor to describe this notion of using technology to essentially convert all of our human experience, everything out there in the public domain, into data, using it to make predictions and also in recommendation engines to manipulate our choices and our behavior. that's being done throughout the economy. when you're messing around with the algorithm, what they're trying to do is to improve the profitability of that manipulation. and all of that stuff is
something that is going to go all the way to the top of the company, but at the same time, it is not just facebook. the same thing is going on throughout the economy. and congress when it is looking at this can't look at it just as a facebook problem. they have to look at this exactly the way we looked at child labor, exactly the way we looked at the chemicals industry or food industry when those industries were out of control. and the good news on this is we're americans, we're experienced, we know how to deal with stuff like this. we just have to put our mind to it and we as citizens have to insist that our elected representatives do their job and create safety regulations, create privacy regulations and improve the antitrust laws. >> let's talk about the vulnerable here, teenage girls, especially. there is new cnn reporting that shows instagram fails to crack down on accounts that promote extreme dieting and eating disorders, that it actually actively promoted some of those accounts. facebook denies this, they say they don't allow that kind of promotion. you have a democratic senator
who created an account and staffed it as if it was a 13-year-old girl and found something very different. how do you make sense of this? what they're saying and what is happening before our eyes. >> well, to be clear, i don't pay any attention to what they're saying. facebook is -- knows more about our attention than anybody on earth. they know if they can string out any story long enough, we'll eventually move on to the next one and ignore the thing they did wrong. so they will do anything to deny or deflect attention away from a problem. so pay no attention to what they say. what frances haugen revealebloo, they want to maximize profits, which is the culture of business in america. when frances says, you know, she feels that there is a moral problem with facebook optimizing profit, when that goes against
the public interest, the problem with that issue is american culture right now is based on letting companies make as much as they can, any way they can. we have deregulated, defunded the enforcement arms of regulation to the point where these companies are operating in a wild west, and it is time to reverse all that. that is congress' job and that's what they have to start today. >> we'll see if they get the message from frances haugen. roger, thank you for being with us. >> it is a great pleasure. thank you for having me. delta airlines, the only major u.s. carrier that still has not decided whether to require employee vaccinations against coronavirus even as a federal mandate is set to go into effect, the company says its voluntary approach is working as the white house is giving federal contractors including airlines until december 8th to have staff vaccinations completed. pete muntean live at reagan national with more. look at the success united had having well over 96, 98%.
>> reporter: southwest airlines is the latest to say it will comply with the vaccine mandate. american airlines said it would do so on friday. what is so interesting here is that delta airlines is holding out, saying what needs more information about the biden administration's worker vaccine mandate. with that deadline approaching, december 8th is about nine weeks away. here is the statement we got from delta airlines,
while we continue to examine the administration's executive order, delta people who remain unvaccinated can continue their careers while undergoing mandatory masking, a federal mandate, weekly testing and beginning in november assessment of a $200 healthcare surcharge. delta says the combination of all of those factors and the $200 a month healthcare surcharge means many of its people have already been vaccinated. delta insists 84% of employees have already got the shot, 1 in every 7 still need to do so. but we know as you mentioned that these vaccine mandates do
work. united airlines' own vaccine mandate went into effect a week ago, and they say 99.5% of its employees got vaccinated. 67,000 united employees in the u.s. were subject to that mandate, only about 320 refused and are now losing their jobs, john. >> 99.9% is more than 84%. pete muntean, thank you for your reporting, appreciate it. so remember this, from the january 6th insurrection -- hang mike pence they shouted. up next, new comments from mike pence that make you wonder if he remembers. a george floyd statue defaced in new york. we'll have reaction from george floyd's brother. and booster shots are in the works from johnson & johnson, some new developments just in this morning.
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pence himself was forced into hiding with his wife and daughter as the mob stormed the capitol. who does pence now sort of blame or where is he now deflecting some of the blame for that? listen. >> i know the media wants to distract from the biden administration's failed agenda by focusing on one day in january, they want to use that one day to try and demean the character and intentions of 74 million americans who believed we could be strong again and prosperous again and supported our administration in 2016 and 2020. >> joining us now, democratic congressman james clyburn, the house majority whip. congressman, thanks so much for being with us. what is the consequence, do you think, of the former vice president deflecting blame to the media and somehow diminishing what happened on that day, january 6th? >> first of all, thank you very much for having me. you know, it is a shame for pence, who has been around a
long time, out of indiana, served in the congress, vice president, for him to pretend as if this was just one moment in time. the american people know there is a lot built up for january 6th, january 6th is not a stefon ta spontaneous event. it was financed by somebody and that's for the commission to find out. who planned it, who financed it and what was the whole purpose of their being there. for him to talk about january 6th as -- >> there is a legitimate question of whether it is over, right? whether or not there are lingering effects of people still trying to stokes some of the sentiments, which is why the
next bit of sound is in question. steve bannon, who worked in the white house and is still currently an ally of the former president, he is calling for what he calls shock troops to be ready to fill administration positions if trump wins a new election. listen. >> we're winning big in 2022. we're going to win big in 2024. we need to get ready now, right? we control this country. we got to start acting like it. and when we're going to act like it, we're not going to have 4,000 ready to go, we're going to have 20,000 ready to go and pick the 4,000 best and the most ready in every single department. and that's when we really start to deconstruct the administration. >> we control this country, steve bannon says, he wants 20,000 shock troops ready now to fill positions if and when donald trump wins, but just referring to shock troops i think probably, do you think it is intentionally provocative? what do you think is going on here? >> i think it is intentional, yes, and it is provocative and i
also think it is frightening. the american people had better come to grips with the fact that there is a little kabal in this country that wishes to get rid of this democracy. they're prepared and laying the foundation for an autocracy. and that is exactly what they're attempting to do on january 6th. that memoranda that was written by attorney eastland with an interesting name by the way, that memorandum is sort of the road map for what the next election result could very well be or the reaction to it if you're not -- i twant to call te
american people to come together. that's what this country is all about. not to -- each other to be turned against the other. this is what is at stake here. the goodness of this country is at stake. >> let me ask you about legislation, which is also what i think people want this country's leaders to do. you are involved right now with trying to get president biden's agenda through. cnn is reporting that president biden has told progressives and congressional leaders that the overall spending plan, we'll call it the reconciliation plan, the plan for his domestic agenda, needs to come down from $3.5 trillion price tag to somewhere between 1.9 and 2.1. a, do you think that is possible, b, what do you think would need to go to get there?
>> yes, i do think that's possible. all we have to do is focus on what we're trying to do and stop focusing on these top line numbers. i have been saying for three weeks now, in fact on this same network, two sundays ago, i said to jake tapper that we ought to focus on children, focus on taking care of our seniors, focus on getting this country back on track, and stop looking at these top line numbers. if you look at that, the problem with the top line numbers, those are ten year numbers. and some things we can do in three, five, six years. so if you focus on getting things done that need to be done now, some of which will be an emergency basis that could come to a close or sundown and sometime before ten years are over, we could get to that number. i said a long time ago that somewhere between 1.5 and 3.5
was the sweet spot. >> i have to let you go. can you give me one example of what can go or be sunseted earlier, something that could be cut? >> well, i think if you look at what we're trying to do with the affordable care act, what we're trying to do with extending most services for what we call medicare assistance, look at that, get rid of this tax cut that 21% corporate rate needs to go up, 26%, 27 i would advocate for. these kinds of things could be sunseted, get us through the emergency that we're in. and get the country the movement again, get the economy to increasing again, and get people back to work, a lot of what we're doing on a regular basis
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the nypd is looking for a skateboarder caught on surveillance video defacing a bust of george floyd in manhattan's union square. as the suspect rides by on the skateboard, you see there, he splashes gray paint across this bust and this is vandalism that happened in broad daylight, sunday morning, just four days after the bust was unveiled there. it is part of a larger installation with busts of breonna taylor and congressman john louis, those were not defaced, but were left as they were. joining me now is george floyd's brother, you were first person i thought of when i saw this video. and i just wonder what you were
feeling when you saw it. >> it was zpufting and downright wrong. we live in a world where they're using brutal force against black defenseless people and get yet they're using brutal force against black statues. this is a problem, but my brother, you know, he told me something a long time ago, you can't serve a purpose in life without somebody throwing rocks at you. but in this case, it is paint. >> and it is new, right? it is new and this is someone that so many people connect with this new movement of racial reckoning in america. it also comes on the heels of a new york times report that nine new york city firefighters were suspended for racist messages that mocked your brother. white firefighters shared racist messages and memes on their phones that mocked his dying moments and they gloated about
how police could legally shoot black children. how discouraging is all of this to you and to your family? >> it is terrible. you think about all the families who are going through this pain, and the suffering. we didn't ask to be part of this fraternity, we were thrown into it because our siblings who we love are being murdered in broad daylight, and it's -- this is a problem. and this is a problem with this country. and we need to solve it. there is no way that we can get through this without solving it because if you continue to destroy statues, it lets you know how much time we have before they continue to try to do something to harm people who are alive and living. >> one of our guests yesterday
reminded us that even decades after emmett till died, was killed, his memorial was defaced as well. what does that say to you about the role in history your brother has played? >> well, i said it before, emmett till was first george floyd. and my brother, the only difference is it was a camera, and it was a similar picture, everybody seen it across the world. it wasn't any way you could hide what happened. and what i see and what people see is we need to get everything together now because people as americans, we don't want to live in a country where we can't walk outside. we're scared to be in a vehicle at a certain time of night because freedom is everything.
and it's held to anticipate death. nobody wants to do that. that's the way this world right now is moving. where african-american people we're anticipating death, we get pulled over by police officers, we are praying and hoping that we live and that we get a good police officer and not a bad one. you have good ones and you have bad ones, you shouldn't have to sort them out. >> philonise, thank you for joining us this morning and i want to leave you and our viewers with the knowledge that voluntariy volunteers mobilized very quick through clean up that statue of your brother so it could return as it was in union square. thank you for being with us. >> you know, one thing before i go -- >> mm-hmm. >> i really wanted to get this out, i think that, like, i want to call out all the democrats, i want all of them to bring the george floyd justice and policpolice ing act to the floor to vote. that's what i want.
no more back room conversations. this is what i want. >> so far their efforts have not yielded that. we'll continue to follow that, philonise, thank you. >> thank you so much. is it safe for 90-year-old william shatner to blast off into space? dr. sanjay gupta will join us next. how effective are pfizer's covid shots over time? the results of a large new study. it's sleep number's fall sale on the sleep number 360 smart bed it helps keep you effortlessly comfortable by sensing your movements and automatically responding to both of you. and, it's temperature balancing to help you stay comfortable all night. it even tracks your circadian rhythm, so you know when you're at your best. in other words, it's the most energy-building, wellness-boosting, parent-powering, proven quality night's sleep we've ever made. and now, save up to $800 on sleep number 360 smart beds. plus, 0% interest for 36 months on all smart beds. only for a limited time. at vanguard,
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command engine start, two, one. >> we have liftoff. >> when blue origin from jeff bezos lifts off into suborbit one week from today, 90-year-old william shatner will boldly go where no man his age has gone before. to space for real. joining us now to discuss, cnn chief medical correspondent and host of the chasing life podcast, dr. sanjay gupta. sanjay, william shatner is 90 years old and despite the fact
he was in "star trek"s had naefr r never really been to space. how safe is it? >> first of all, i'm jealous. i would love to do that. i think it is amazing all that is happening. i mean, i think that there is obviously risks involved. but this isn't the days of the right stuff, john. there is people who john glenn, in fact, went up in 1998, he was 77 years old. wally funk recently, she went up, 82 years old, went up on the first blue origin space flight. so there is about 3 gs you pull when you're lifting off. coming down is probably the hardest part, this is about 11 minutes or so the entire flight. but that's kind of like coming down part, the descent is similar to some roller coasters. there is no specific physical criteria that one needs to pass to go up into space. very different than early space flight.
"the wall street journal" was reporting all you had to do was prove you can run up the seven flights of stairs within 90 seconds and fit into your spacesuit, essentially, to be able to go into one of these flights you can do that, sounds like he can, he should be good to go. you know, it is all these sort of longer term risks of long-term space flight, radiation, isolation, all those sorts of things won't apply to him. this is a very short flight. >> well, good for him. i hope he enjoys it. no beam. there is a new study out from pfizer now and the pfizer vaccine, and its effectiveness over time. it has good news about severe infection, hospitalizations, but it did have pretty glaring number about infection overall. what does this say? >> yeah. let me show you this chart, and i'll sort of talk you through, i think this is very interesting for some time you heard this concern does the effectiveness of the vaccine wain over time, and if it does, is that related to just time passing or is this
because of new variants like delta? what this study seems to show, a big real world study is that this seems to be more related to just time, as more time passes your overall effectiveness against infections seems to go down. when we say infections, this could be anybody who gets a positive test and is surprised because they feel fine, asymptomatic to people who have more severe illness. and what you find is that that, you know, just overall infection protection does seem to wain. but the thing that the vaccine was originally designed for, what we heard originally from the outcome trials back in december of last year, was the protection against severe illness, hospitalization and death, and as you point out, that's the red line across the top. that's the line that sort of says, hey, look, even with time, it stays 90% plus in terms of protecting those things and, again this is real world data, all ages and many places around the world. so that's -- it is overall good
news, but that white line is why there is such a conversation now about boosters, we're hearing from pfizer, but also johnson & johnson, moderna, all talking about boosters and i think it is something we're likely to see from all these companies at some point or another. >> i look forward to talking to you much more about the possible implications of that going forward. dr. sanjay gupta, thank you so much. and congratulations, your new book "world war c" is out today. >> thanks, john. a former facebook insider about to blow the whistle on the company at a senate hearing. live coverage here on cnn just ahead. and cnn's don lemon joining us live. >> you know it must be important. >> very important. a dancing shot. right here when we come back. is he moon walking? nice. all right, we got to work on that.
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whistle-blower has come forward, alleging that the way facebook does business is toxic. amplifying hate and is bad for the way we relate to each other as human beings. is there a solution in all of these complaints? let's hope so. john avlon with a reality check. >> if you're wondering how our civic debates seem to have gone in insane, it is because our incentive structures are screwed up and toxic politics and social media are intertwined. the latest facebook whistle-blower frances haugen pulled the curtain back on internal research showing that the platform knew its algorithms were amplifying division, extremism and polarization. but they did little because they wanted to optimize engagement and profit. incentives. after an algorithm change in 2018, researchers warned misinformation, violent content are prevalent, the tail wag the dog of democracy at home and abroad. a 2019 memo shows that european political parties were complaining that the change to the algorithm forced them to skew negative in their
communications on facebook. leading them into more extreme positions. >> the european political parties were essentially saying to facebook the way you have written your algorithm is changing the way we lead our countries. >> yes. you are forcing us to take positions that we don't like, that we know are bad for society. we know if we don't take those positions, we won't win in the marketplace of social media. >> the incentive structure was effectively forcing political parties to amplify negative messages. and the rise ing campaign ads i america reflects that dynamic. there have been five other departures of noble facebook employees over the past several years, warning the platform fails to respond to internal waur warnings and is profiting off hate. there is good reason for all this concern. the 2016 internal facebook presentation obtained by the wall street journal frankly
stated that 64% of all extremist group joins are due to our recommendation tools. they knew that neo-nazis and white supremacists were recruiting and organizing on their platform for years. while facebook belatedly took steps to remove holocaust deniers and qanon conspiracy theorists, results have been uneven. now, this wasn't facebook's intention. it was the result of the incentive structure. and the brutal reality that human beings are attracted to conflict and controversy and anger. our algorithms exploit the human brain -- if left unchecked, it warned facebook users would get more and more divisive content in an effort to gain user attention and increase time on the platform. with great power comes great responsibility as we have been told. and it is clear that our laws have not kept pace with technology and now we need to take steps to defend our democracy. in senate testimonies scheduled to be given today by miss
haugen, she says, when we realize tobacco companies were hiding the harms it caused, the government took action. we figured out cars were safer with seat belts, the government took action. i implore you to do the same here. what can be done? facebook needs to be more transparent with its data. ail lgorithms should not promot- there should be same rules for political ads online as on tv. this would help decrease distortion of bots and the psychological impact on kids by making facebook actually enforce their minimum age requirements. there is no silver bullet to stopping this toxic polarization of our society. james madison warned that so strong is the propensity of mankind to fall into mutual animosities, that the most frivolous and fanciful destructions have been -- to excite their most violent conflicts. social media put these impulses on steroids. facebook's own employees are
warning that something is very wrong in the way social media pumps up and profits off our divisions. we should listen. and then take action. and that's your reality check. >> we'll see what that action is. john, thank you. so a federal judge sentencing a capitol rioter rejected comparisons between the insurrection and the civil unrest that arose from last year's protest against racial inequality. the judge said to compare the actions of people around the country protesting mostly peacefully for civil rights to a violent mob seeking to overthrow the lawfully elected government is a false equivalency and downplays the very real danger that the crowd on january 6th posed to our democracy. just last week the different judge on the same court suggested capitol rioters had been treated more harshly saying, quote, the us attorney's office would have more credibility if it was even-handed in its concern about riots and the mobs in the city. joining us now is don lemon, host of "don lemon tonight" and
author of "this is the fire: what i say to my friends about racism." a tale of two judges, mr. lemon. >> one operating in reality. good morning, by the way. one of them operating in reality, the other one not so much in reality. there is an associated press research study done that shows that those who are involved in the riots after george floyd, not the protests, some of the protests, we have to distinguish between the protests and the riots. there are judges who more than that one judge saying that these people are being handed lenient sentences and wondering why prosecutors and the justice department, why they're not handing out harsher sentences or giving out -- they are trying to undermine our democracy. that is quite different than protesting because you are upset about something.
one is breaking the law from a lie, built on a lie, nothing about the election that was stolen or anything that was untoward, it was one of the most secure -- most secure election in our nation's history. the other one was built on frustration, and anger over what? a justice system that is systemically racist towards people of color. that is the truth. the law shows that. the facts show that. and so one is a lie, built on a lie, the other one is built on out of frustration over a system that needs to be corrected. now, let me say this, no one should be rioting in this country. everyone can peacefully protest, that is your right as an american citizen. but having said everything i said, no one should be rioting. one is a total lie. and the other one is built out of frustration. and built on actual facts. >> there are many people who agree with the judge who conflats the two. they don't see the difference between riots, where someone is
breaking into a shoe store and looting, and a riot where you have people entering the capitol while congress is in session certifying an election. >> one, a shoe can be replaced. and the vote is the value of a shoe. no one should be doing it. no one should be stealing anything from anyone. the other one, can you replace a democracy? how do you fix a broken democracy? that is -- you can take a shoe and fix it or get another one. right? or an insurance policy can replace a shoe, an insurance policy cannot replace the democracy or fix racism or fix a lie that has been spread by one person and the people who enable him. so there is quite a difference. the people who see the same, want to see the same. not operating in reality. if you look at the reality check of what john said, the reality check of having george floyd's brother on and you see what's happening in the new york city police department, what is happening all over the country,
people see what they want to see, and they allow their own racism to come to light. we see it. we get it. you don't want to see it and don't want to get it. those are saying this is not systemic racism, there is no difference between those things, come on, you're not working. >> you say how do we fix a broken democracy? how would fixing facebook address that? >> because it wouldn't allow -- it is not -- people, you know, it has been so frustrating because everyone says facebook, facebook, it is not just facebook. it is all social media. it is twitter. it is instagram. it is the other, you know, parlers or whoever it is, i try not to go on social media. i post thing i want people to know about and i move on. i don't read the comments, i don't get trapped in the whole social media thing. because it allows lies to be spread unchecked. if we say something on this network that is not true, there are repercussions and
ramifications, right? we face the consequences. if you do that on social media, there are no consequences. it is a wild, wild west. i can go on and say you, you know, when is the last time you -- and there are no consequences for it. even though it is not true. and it is not just someone coming up to you and screaming in your face and, you know, in public, or whatever, it is spread around the world. and people believe those things, just like the big lie was spread around the world in large part because of social media. and none of it is true. again, the election was not stolen. just because people believe it doesn't mean it's not true. and it doesn't believe that -- it doesn't mean we should allow it in our society. we should not allow those things in our society. at the very least what we post on social media, what is posted on social media should be true. >> what if it is not -- >> take it down. if it is not true, take it down. if it is not true, don't allow
people to put it up there. have them face consequences. have them -- if you're going to be on social media, you should put your real information on there, so that if you say something that is not true, or that can be solved in a courtroom, can be fixed in a courtroom, then you should be able to face the consequences for it. it shouldn't just be bots out there spreading bs. >> it was stunning one of the revelation of frances haugen was how little of that information is actioned. right, on the violent and incitement language, it was tenths of one percentage point, she said. >> facebook says we walk a line between letting people -- the free and fair flow of information. there are ways to do that. we figured out ways to do that, most people in legacy media, not everybody in legacy media there are people and propaganda networks in legacy media that spread bs and don't face enough consequences. i think social media, like any other media company, especially
legacy media, traditional media, there should be -- they should face some sort of consequences. and they should be regulated. that's just -- and the very least, what you put on there should be true and if it is not true, it should be actionable. >> don lemon, thanks for getting up for us. also great. >> also for wearing this sweater. i love this sweater. >> i think it is called periwinkle. >> i'll take your word for it. >> you should more sweaters. >> i should wear more periwinkle. i knew you were headed there. we'll see you later. watch "don lemon tonight" in all colors at 10:00 p.m. eastern time. cnn's coverage continues after this quick break. (brad) apartments-dot-com's 3-d virtual tours are so realistic it feels like you're actually there. and that's all thanks to this guy, ted. (ted) oh, just a matter of perspective, really. (brad) apartments-dot-com. the most popular place to find a place.
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only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ very good tuesday morning to you. i'm jim sciutto. nice to have you with me. >> i'm erica hill. facebook is back online, and just in time for a crucial hearing on capitol hill. next hour the newly revealed facebook whistle-blower will testify about her explosive allegations that the social media company knowingly pushes disinformation on its site to make a profit. former product manager frances haugen accusing facebook of knowing the platform is being used to spread hate and encourage violence and that it is harmful to children. >> it is a remarkable view from the inside. in her opening remarks obtained by haugen, she will say the choices being made by facebook's leadership are a huge problem for children, for public safety,