tv Don Lemon Tonight CNN October 4, 2021 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT
this is "don lemon tonight." let me ask you this. do you feel a little calmer today? do you feel like there were fewer angry voices out there? well, maybe that's because facebook along with instagram and what's app were down for most of the day and you know what that did. that silenced the feedback loop that seems to be making americans angrier and angrier. people couldn't yell at each other online so people were maybe looking for other places to do it. i want you to listen to this. this is facebook whistle blower francis that's claiming that anger is good for facebook's business and alleges a scale of the problem is much worse than the company is letting on or that the public even understands. she's on "60 minutes" and here is what she said. >> it's own research is showing
that content that is hateful, that is divisive, that polarizing, it's easier to inspire people to anger than it is to other emotions. facebook has realized that if they change the algorithm to be safer, people will spend less time on the site and click on less ads and make less money. >> okay. so i mean, look, that's what she's saying. but think about what she's saying, though, right? she's a former facebook employee and she's alleging the company is willing to let angry rhetoric spread as long as it's good for their bottom line. now that whistle blower is going to appear before a senate committee. it's going to happen tomorrow. cnn obtained prepared testimony saying she knows facebook could, her word, destroy her. and comparing all of this to big tobacco alleging they know it's toxic, but they do it anyway. a quote here. when we realize tobacco
companies were hiding the harms it caused, the government took action. when we figured out cars were safer with seat belts, the government took action and today the government is taking action against companies that hid evidence of open i dioids. i implore you to do the same here. facebook is responding and another quote, every day our teams have to balance protecting the ability of billions of people to express themselves openly with the need to keep the platform a safe and positive place. we continue to make significant improvements to tackle the spread of misinformation and harmful content to suggest we encourage bad content and do nothing is just not true. end quote from facebook. okay? so look, nobody is suggesting that everything you see on facebook is harmful. no one is suggesting that. but it's also no secret that the platform has been used to spread hate and misinformation, hate and misinformation that just
serve to pit us against each other. look, you see it everywhere. the anger is everywhere and it's toxic. anger on planes. anger over vaccines. anger over masks. it seems like america is angrier than ever. two protesters flipping over a testing tab le at a tent at a mobile covid testing center today. cameras everywhere. it's all caught on tape. what would have thought school board meetings across the country would erupt over mask mandates? school boards? who thought parents would be furious over attempts to protect their children from a deadly pandemic. >> calm down. calm down. we know -- we know who you are. we know who you are. >> we will find you. >> you will never be allowed in public again. >> i'm going to comfort everybody that comes at my kid with this stupid ridiculous
mandate. >> we are the storm and we are ready and when this whole thing crumbles to the ground, we will be here to hold you accountable for your crimes against huma humanity. >> no more masks! >> right here, look, right here. so as you can see, fists are now flying. all of this on live television. fists are flying. >> you are allowing child abuse. you are allowing child abuse. you are allowing child abuse. you are allowing child abuse. you with your snotty little face, you're allowing it, as well. >> you treat the parents of these children as domestic terrorists using our men in blue against us. your power hungry dictatorship has gotten out of control. this is no longer about our safety. it is about control. >> no one knows history or remembers history.
i am calling on churches, active duty military, veteran s s. we know in this room. we know that. thanks for showing your colors. >> and when there is time to quote the famous politician adolph hitler, when diplomacy ends, war begins. >> i have said it before. these mask wars over what people like to call their freedom, what kind of freedom is that. >> we are for freedom all the way. >> what kind of freedom is that? freedom for kids to get sick? the freedom for them to be
quarantined. that's not freedom. there is the anger over critical race theory stoked by lies using it as a political weapon. terrifying parents with the provably false lie that critical race theory, which isn't even taught to children is about hating white people. it's not. the morality and values are slipping from our fingers but we will not let this happen. if you believe in christ and the constitution and believe in america, do not let this country fall. >> critical race theory in fact pits black people against white people and has an end game goal of restructuring america to an authoritarian regime. >> you're teaching children to hate others because of their skin color, and you're forcing
them to lie about other kids gender. i am disgusted by your bigotry and your depravity. >> shame on you! shame on you! shame on you! >> i've said this a million times. critical race theory is not being taught in grade schools. not about hating white people but studying the fact, that's right, the fact that systemic racism is part of society and instead, peddlers of lies are using it to stoke anger. don't kid yourself. the simmering rage is everywhere, everywhere. look, the entire two hours i'm on the air tonight, i could give you example after example after example but here is one. dr. fauci has gotten death
threats for trying to save americans from a killer virus and anti-semitism and anti asian hate flourishing. >> in surveillance video released by the nypd you see the vicious attack up fold. a woman whom authorities identified as a 65-year-old asian-american is pushed to the ground. her attacker kicking her in the head again and again. police say the man allegedly yelled expletives at her saying you don't belong here. >> jesus. it's hard to watch. it's hard to watch. and it shouldn't happen. the probably biggest example that we saw of anger exploding on january 6th, trying to overturn our free and fair election. lawmakers running for their lives as rioters chanted hang
mike pence. >> hang mike pence! hang mike pence! hang mike pence! hang mike pence! >> the anger was everywhere that d day. >> no, no. >> [ bleep ]! [ bleep ]! >> so according to a criminal complaint, the fbi says a pennsylvania woman sent a video to her children saying quote, we were looking for nancy to shoot her in the friggin brain but we didn't find her. that woman pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor last week. the anger on full display on one of the darkest days in the history. body cam footage showing one man following and taunting officers as they made their way through the mob shoving one and punching him in the head. now, i have to tell you, we have
not bleeped this language so you can see it and you can hear it as it rely happened. roll it. >> are you an american? act like it. >> you don't know what the f you're doing. you have no idea what the f you're doing. no idea. talk to me, pro. >> get the [ bleep ] out of he here. >> no, they look for us. f that. >> blue lives matter. those are our fellow americans attacking the capitol and the police defending it and they weren't foreign terrorists.
fell low americans. it's hard to watch this again and again. i know it. but we can't pretend that it didn't happen and so many people are trying to sweep it under the rug, right? we can't allow it to be swept away, pretend it didn't happen. we can't forget what happened to police officers like officer michael fanone trying to defend the united states capitol from rioters. >> at some point during the fighting, i was dragged from the line of officers and into the crowd. i heard someone scream. i got one. they grabbed my badge and my radio. they began to beat me with their fists in what felt like hard metal objects. at one point i came face-to-face with an attacker who repeatedly lunged for me and attempted to remove my firearm. i heard chanting from some of the crowd get his gun and kill
him with his own gun. >> fellow americans, not foreign terrorists, domestic ones. rioters in maga hats battling pol police. >> it's a crying shame. the anger is still out there, everyone.it's a crying shame. the anger is still out there, everyone. it's all around us. the lies, the misinformation is all still out there and make no mistake, the threat is gathering again. the big lie is about laying the groundwork for the next time. it's still out there. it's still out there. facebook decided it's good for
business according to the whistle blower but what happens to america when they choose profit over public safety? >> people enjoy engaging with things that elicit an emotional reaction and the more anger that they get exposed to, the more they interact and consume. so dad bought puffs plus lotion, and rescued his nose. with up to 50% more lotion puffs bring soothing softness and relief. a nose in need deserves puffs indeed.
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so facebook whistle blower francis testifying on capitol hill tomorrow and we have a copy of her testimony. she said i came forward because i recognize a frightening truth. almost no one outside facebook knows what happens inside facebook. telling "60 minutes" facebook knows the platforms are used to spread hate and misinformation but alleges the company hides the evidence. i want to bring in matthew dowd, the former chief strategists for president george w. bush. technology correspondent for "the new york times." gentlemen, thank you, good evening. matthew, you're up first. so when you hear what this facebook whistle blower is saying and anger is good for business, what happens when the anger and misinformation are amplified on social media?
what happens to our democracy? i think we kind of see it, right? >> we definitely see it. we saw it unfold in a tragic way on january 6th when is when those merge and one of the things i asked people to do today, let's keep that date in mind next january when we have a cause to remember it and what effect it had on democracy. i think facebook fund mentally, it's fascinating about facebook is its original design and original promise of facebook was two fund mental things. it would allow us to connect better and unify people and unify communities and unify country and would bring us together. that's one promise. the other promise, it would have an ability to share facts and data and information so we could get closer to the truth so people would be more knowledge b ble. it had the opposite effect. there is less facts. people are less available to the truth and more divided and more divisive and used as a way to
divide us instead of bring us together and i think that is the fundamental problem with facebook is it's original design is was a good thing, the way it now is done has been the opposite of those two fundamental things. >> so listen, before i get to it, i want to ask you what should be -- what should it be regulated? should there be rules? should they have to abide by the same rules as legacy or traditional media, matthew? >> i've watched this negative effect and i'll bring up the movie jurassic park. there is a line in "jurassic park" that's talking to hammond who runs it and says you were so preoccupied with whether or not you could, you never pause to ask yourself whether or not you should and that is a real
problem with facebook. it had the same effect. they created a theme park and people ended up having horrible damage and destruction, horrible things that happened to it and so the idea was we'll have this great celebration and it turned out because they never asked themselves whether or not they should or the process for it and to me, that's where we are today. facebook ought to be seriously regulated, it is a new source for the vast country. it ought to be regular lated and there should be some standard set on facebook and all that because if it comes the way it continues, we'll have january 6th multiple, multiple times because people are getting lies and conspiracies and they're also being encouraged to do awful things. >> listen, it's facebook. that's a whistle blower, twitter is same thing. you can just spread misinformation on twitter, as well and other social media sites you can do it, as well. mike, same question to you, what
do you think? we know what the whistle blower is saying. what do you think? >> that's right. first of all, that was ian malcolm, one of my favorite lines. appreciate matthew with that. it's interesting because facebook called for themselves to be regulated for the past year. it's also kind of a ploy of them knowing that regulation has to come. they have gone this long without being regulated but i think they're one of the highest spenders of lobbying in washington as far aztecs tech companies want to go and want a regulation that is kind to them essentially and there is a version of this where regulation might actually benefit them and maybe pull up the ladder behind them so the tricks facebook did on the way up becoming what it is might be difficult for startups to replicate and
eventually sure pass facebook se day but we live in a world where few digital regulations around how facebook operates and how tech companies operate, even exist and these companies move so quickly, it's hard to even keep up with what should be regular -- what regulations should look like. >> look, i'm sure we can figure it out because i'm sure people are -- there are many people out there who don't want the regulation but i think the silent majority of people want to -- would want to -- regulate if they knew exactly what was happening. facebook is saying the "60 minutes" interview and research presented doesn't tell the whole story and vice president of global affairs was on with my colleague brian stelter on sunday and he offered a prebutt l to the whistle blower francis, watch this. >> i think it would be too easy, surely, to suggest with a tweak to an algorithm, somehow all the
disfiguring polarization would evaporate wait. i think it absolves people of asking questions about historical and cultural reasons that led to the politics that we have in the u.s. today. >> so mike, listen, there are real issues out there our society needs to address. how can facebook distance themselves when their platform according to this whistle blower is pouring gasoline on the fire essentially? >> i mean, i think gasoline on the fire is the exact sort of metaphor i'd use. one excuse that facebook likes to card out a lot of the time is we're a mirror to society. we don't tell people what to do. we don't sort of like -- we're not the cause, the primary cause but they don't really have a have response they're the excel rent. we might not like each other but won't say anything on the street. facebook recognizes in the past,
at least, recognizes that when you're -- when you come up in my feed, i have a response whether that's a positive or negative response, i'm responding to it a lot more and historically it's been good for facebook when i have that response when i come back to the feed. i think as far as them saying, you know, society has its own problems, that's absolutely correct but as far as like how much facebook accelerates some of these different types of feuds and puts us in reeach other's faces more, that's something they can't defend against to bring us together whether we like it or not. >> the analogy you said, if you get into an argument or whatever, that argument happens on the street. it not spread around the world to billions of people. >> 100%. >> right? >> so there should be some responsibility with that and you know, you don't have the possibility of that many people, you know, egging you on or calling you names or trying to goeg you.
responsibility should be there, as well. can we put this genie back in the bottle with so many people using facebook? >> one of the things we have to acknowledge, there are a lot of people on facebook just sharing birthday photos or christmas party and want to share that. there are a lot of people doing that that is beneficial to stay connected to families and friends and all of that. we have to put the genie back in the bottle. we've gone through times in world history where technology especially in communication has come on. we've solved problems with it and sought to regulate it or figure out okay, we have to alleviate the negatives and do things, public policy has to do things to fix the problem. so yeah, the genie is out of the bottle in that people are socially connected but government and leaders have to respond to it as they watch this fans -- the flames be fanned across the country. it's now their time.
we got technology. we've seen it in practice. we know the problems and leaders have to respond to that in a way that protects americans. >> gentlemen, i mean, i could have had this conversation the entire program but we have other news, big news. we'll continue the conversation some other time. thank you both. appreciate it. >> thanks, don. >> thank you. >> president biden warning about a potential catastrophic event with the economy if the debt ceiling isn't raised and he is blaming republicans for refusing to cooperate. o our appliance superstore where we've got the best deals on refrigerators, microwaves, gas ranges and grills. and if you're looking for... (upbeat pop music throughout)
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president biden is calling out republicans refusing to help raise a debt ceiling to prevent an economic catastrophe. >> let's be clear, not only are republicans refusing to do their job but threatening to use their power to do our job, quite frankly it's hype critical, dangerous. their obstruction and irresponsibility knows absolutely no bounds, excuse me, especially as we're clawing our way out of this pandemic. >> so if the debt ceiling is not raised, it could be the first time ever that the u.s. defaults on its debts. joining me now the press secretary for hillary clinton and 2016 presidential campaign. brian, good evening to you. last time we were on big breaking news. i hope you don't. it's monday. i could use the break.
thanks for joining us. listen, president biden is hammering the gop calling them disgraceful for not helping to raise the debt ceiling but based on the gop that you know, do they have any intention to take this possible economic catastrophe seriously or would they rather see democrats fail and meaning the country will fail, as well? >> well, first of all, don, what joe biden is saying is absolutely correct. what the republicans are doing is risky and dangerous, it's completely irresponsible. mitch mcconnell is saying on the one hand that democrats should have to raise the debt ceiling by themselves and chuck schumer and skbrojoe biden are saying o we're willing to do that. can you at least not filibuster the measure and if we have up and down, democrats will get the debt ceiling lifted and mitch mcconnell saying no, no, no we'll filibuster it. the obvious solution is to carve out a new exception to the filibuster rules and go nuclear
for the sake of raising the debt ceiling. the question is whether the democrats are going to do that or whether they're going to get back into a corner by mitch mcconnell. mitch mcconnell is saying he wants the democrats to use the reconciliation process, the same process they're using to pass the biden build back better economic agenda. they want them to use the same process to raise the debt ceiling. chuck schumer and joe biden don't want to do that for among other reasons it would take a lot of time. janet yellen said the debt ceiling needs to be lifted to do a debt ceiling increase in reconciliation. it's risky to take up all that time on the clock. so democrats are saying we're not going to do reconciliation. mitch mcconnell says that's the only way i'll let you do this. when mitch mcconnell commits to writing, he tends to see it through. the strategy is try to ashame th
the republicans. this republican party is past the point of being shamble. i worry the democrats have to use the reconciliation process cumbersome it is or get the bmoy and political will to change the filibuster rules. >> i want to change the filler buster rules because check schs -- chuck schumer is setting up a vote. democrats have the majority in the house and senate. are democrats letting republicans who are in the majority, who have the majority rule because they are refusing to get rid of it? >> yes. so on issue after issue, this is a theme. it's the debt ceiling. it's voting rights. it's the build back better agenda. democrats are trying to find ways to pass all these measures on simple party line votes and it's impossible under the senate rules to pass all those things that they want to pass with just party line votes. the simple and most
straightforward solution here is to just finally have joe biden meet with the democratic caucus, iron out a path to get rid of the filibuster to take advantage of the limited time window they have, the remaining time during this congress where they could pass these things on a simple majority vote if they would simply get the political will to change the filibuster rules. the republicans, i mean, mitch mcconnell with the position on the debt ceiling could not be teeing this up better for the democrats to go to the public convincingly and say look, they left us no option but to do this, take this step to change the filibuster rules and just think of how asinine this whole conversation is, don. mitch healthcamcconnell's posite will allow democrats to raise the debt ceiling through a 50-vote process. what is reconciliation? it's already a process that's an exception to the filibuster. congress decided several decades
ago the act of passing a budget every year is too important and too critical to the work of government to have it be subject to the filibuster. we'll carve out a special process where you can pass a budget by a 50-vote standard. there is an exception that exists for passing the budget and debt ceiling decrease and we venting a default on u.s. economy cratering is just as important. they should have a similar exception for the debt ceil sglg always a pleasure. thank you. see you next time. >> thanks, don. a bronze coated bust of george floyd in new york city defaced in the middle of the day. it's not the first time the artist sculpture has been vandalized. did you know that your clothes can actually attract pet hair? with bounce pet hair & lint guard, your clothes can repel pet hair.
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skateboard splashing point in broad daylight. the vandalism taking place days after the staytute or sculpt wih john lewis and brianna taylor made their debuts. joining me is analyst and political reporter and chris, he is the artist behind those sculptures. chris, so glad to have you on. welcome back. you're always on. appreciate both of you. chris, i'll start with you. this is the first time a george floyd artwork of yours has been vandalized. are you surprised how brazen this was, though? >> not completely shocked. i guess i'm somewhat surprised it occurred in daylight, but i'm not completely shocked. i mean, listen, i know there is a die versionty diversity of ope floyd and i think there are better ways to express ones self-than damage an object, which is of course, it has
meaning beyond it's physical state but it's an object and defacing it doesn't damage the message of the meaning. in fact, in this case, it amplified it. >> agree. >> gave definition to the meaning. >> agreed. i knew when we talked about it and i first read about it and it was eerected, i said wait, let' see how long this is vandalized, sure enough, quickly. it shows the significance of the art artwork. it's been a year since tens of thousands of americans came out to protest police violence. is this a sign of how far we need to go, chris? >> absolutely. i ct illustration but what is remarkable about yesterday is when it did happen, of course, i was -- i had to do a double take because it happened before. i walked that road before.
but i called the curator of the exhibit and got on the ball. they got their supplies and tools and went up to the site and all of a sudden, all these people who came out and wanted to help and it became this spontaneous show of unity and community and, you know, they all just were there for several hours working to achieve a common goal and they did a beautiful job and the sculuptur is back in pristine condition. it was fitting. >> let's talk more about this. that sort of happened. you said you want these to lead to civil disconsidurse. what do you hope inspires people? >> we'll all have our individual reaction, right? art is a tool for interspection.
it's a self-check tool. when we look at a work of art, we look within ourselves and find meaning. it's a deeply unique and personal experience but also, art -- especially with this type of exhibit offers an environment for as you said civil discourse where we can discuss our differences and hear each other out and maybe get to an understanding of each other's perspective. that's important. i'm not imposing my thoughts or opinions on anyone. i'm creating a venue for that type of discourse and i think that is at least a good start. >> i want to bring you in because you have reporting about the new york city, the new york city fire department or new york fire department but first, let me get your reaction to this and then we'll talk about that. >> yeah, i mean, i immediately
thought about the sign down in mississippi about emmet teal that is consistently defaced. that does speak to what we are up against in terms of those who do not want to see those expressions of black humanity, of black folks being their full shelves and what george floyd has come to represent, that national call for racial justice and the same way that that sculpt sclupture, that's a community that doesn't want to see that and that's consistent throughout the history of this country. i think it's a great point to mention the unity and community that came from it but all sides here are represented. the power of that sculpt tour and that is what those protests to were about last summer. >> thank you for that. let's get to your reporting now and "the new york times." that the new york city fire
department suspended nine firefighters for sharing racist memes and jokes about george floyd's death. what types of things were they saying? >> you know, it truly was shocking. we had memes that gloated about how police could legally shoot black children. you had memes that showed george floyd's final dying moments that made fun of those moments. you had a discussion in that group chat that discussed whether firefighters should use hoses against protesters and someone responded saying wild animals. this is really the most explicit form of racism and bigotry you can talk about and that represents the minority of officers, our reporting showed it spoke to a larger issue you had the department so overwhelmingly white and male for so many years that resisted recruiting black and brown firefighters to diversify and seeped within the culture. so much so it was written in the hand handbooks. our reporting showed in the
management and supervising training manual for the fdny, it had written down team building would suffer or be challenged when new members, minorities or new women came into the department. that's the definition of systemic racism written into the rule book and seeped into the culture. it was true for text messages and experiences that we had talked about with those firefighters who are coming up against a culture of whiteness and of bigotry. >> yeah. the fdny said this was some of the biggest disciplinary action that they have ever taken. as astde, chris, thank you both for joining us and keep up the great work. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. tonight, the texas state board of pardons and paroles voting to recommend a full pardon to george floyd for his 2004 drug conviction. floyd had lived in houston and the district attorney of houston hails the boards decision saying she hopes it a brings a measure of comfort to floyd's family.
the final decision on the pardon rests with texas governor greg abbott. democratic senator kyrsten sinema confronted by activists where she teaches at arizona state university and they followed her into a bathroom. there's software. and then there's industrial grade software, forged from decades of industrial experience and insights. meet honeywell forge. analytical software that connects assets and people to deliver a cybersecure record of your entire operation. so that everyone, in your boardroom and beyond, speaks the same language. honeywell forge. industrial grade software. ♪ ♪
so take this and listen -- well, please, please, please, please. so activists upset, making sure democratic senators kyrsten sinema and joe manchin know it. the two facing a flurry of frustration over their roles in holding up biden's economic agenda. in arizona, senator sinema confronted by young protesters waiting outside a class she was teaching at arizona state university. following her into the bathroom
with their demands for action. watch. >> senator, we want to talk to you real quick. >> actually, i am heading out. >> right now is a real moment that our people need in order for us to be able to talk about what's really happening. we need a build back better right now. >> so that we can have justice and solutions that we need for immigration, labor. build back better, pass the bill! build back better, pass the bill! >> the full video has already been viewed more than 5.5 million times on twitter. they succeeded in getting attention. they did. but what kind? when you violate someone's privacy, it blurs a line between activism and harassment. i'm not sure if it's even that bl blurry. it's harassment. senator sinema saying today that, quote, their behavior was not legitimate protests. president biden and senator
schumer both saying the tactics cross the line. whatever point these protesters want to make, very few arguments, if any, have been won by yelling at someone in a bathroom. it also probably won't make the target more sympathetic to your cause. and if you're thinking oh, look, don is defending a democrat. i said the same thing when tucker carlson was accosted in a fishing store this summer. it was going too far then, and it is going too far now. and the thing is there are a lot of americans who do want sinema and manchin to support biden's agenda. and there are so many great ways to protest and prove your point. but this, this ain't it. only two weeks away from what could be an economic catastrophe. president biden attack republicans for refusing to raise the debt ceiling. uch you've saved, how much you'll need, and build a straightforward plan to generate income, even when you're not working.
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tonight, president biden slamming republicans for refusing to join democrats in raising the nation's debt ceiling, calling their actions hypocritical, dangerous, and disgraceful. congress facing a deadline of october 18th, two weeks from tonight to increase the country's borrowing limit or the nation could default on its debt for the first time in history. facebook whistle-blower frances haugen testifying on capitol hill today saying she is coming forward because she says facebook nose its platforms are used to spread hate and misinformation, but she alleges the company hides that evidence. and is this the end of the covid pandemic? is it the end in sight? new case, hospitalizations and deaths are all trending down. but what about the upcoming holiday season? we're going get some answers from our very own dr. sanjay gupta. first i want to bring in kirsten powers and john avenue len. good evening to both of you. good to see you.