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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  October 4, 2021 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT

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lawmakers, one of them senator amy coney barrett. she said facebook's own research shows it amplifies hate, misinformation and political unrest but the company hides what it knows. she described the financial incentives for not changing the algorithm which prioritizes extreme content because that gets more clicks and more eyeballs and for longer. haugen talked about how facebook's instagram can harm teenagers, an allegation staffers for senator bloomenthal explored. donie o'sullivan reports. >> we created a 13-year-old who expressed interest in weight loss and dieting, and within a day she was flooded with recommendations for accounts concerning eating disorders and personal -- >> reporter: he wanted to see what it was to be like a teenager struggling with an eating disorder on instagram. they set up an account belonging to a 13-year-old girl.
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the result, instagram's algorithm suggested they follow pages that promote eating disorders, with names like i have to be thin, eternally starved, and skin and bone. >> what is super tragic is facebook's own research says as these young women begin to consume this eating disorder content they get more and more deblessed and it makes them use the app more. and so they end up in this feedback cycle where they hate their bodies more and more p facebook's own research says it is not just that instagram is dangerous for teenagers, it is distinctly worse than other forms of social media. >> reporter: that's whistleblower frances haugen, who leaked thousands of documents from facebook, including the company's own research, like this. a presentation about the dangers of instagram for teenagers. we make body issues worse for 1 in 3 girls, reads one slide. teens who struggle with mental
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health say instagram make it worse, reads another. instagram said eternal starved, i have to be thin, skin and bone, the accounts it promoted through its algorithm broke the company's rules encouraging eating disorders, but they only removed the accounts after being contacted by cnn. >> this experience shows graphically how these claims to protect children or take down accounts that may be dangerous to them are absolute hogwash. in fact, it was not taken down until cnn brought it to their attention. >> reporter: a spokesperson for instagram's parent company facebook said it uses technology and reports from users to remove content that violates its rules on eating disorders as quickly as it can, adding they are always working to improve. >> with eating disorders and social media, we do know that there is this social comparison component, and so the more time people spend on social media and
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they are looking at accounts that may be inspiration or there is a term that is called thinspiration or fitspiration, we know that that can definitely increase social comparison and, therefore, result in negative body image, negative mental health. >> reporter: and for people who might be struggling with some of the issues in that report, contact the national eating disorder association's help line on 1-800-931-2237. anderson, i want to underline just how disturbing what you saw there was. that was essentially an account belonging to a 13-year-old child that instagram was pushing pages that were glorifying eating disorders to. >> frances haugen is going to testify in front of the senate tomorrow. do we know what she is expected to say? >> she is going to lay it into facebook tomorrow. here is some of her testimony. her opening statement that was released earlier. facebook wants you to believe in
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false choices. she want you to cleefb you must choose with connecting those you love online and personal privacy to share fun photos with kids and friends, you must be inundated with information. they want you to believe this is part of the deal. a lot of this is what analysts and critics of facebook have been saying for along time, but this is hitting a lot different, anderson. frances just left facebook in may and she has facebook's own internal documents, research that shows the harms that facebook does cause to back her up. >> thank you. senator amy coney barrett is a member of the subcommittee hearing tomorrow. good to see you. in our last hour i spoke with the attorney for haugen who said that actually there are simple changes that facebook could make to the algorithms that would have marginal impacts on growth at the platform, on the money they make, but huge impacts on the spread of misinformation, conspiracy theories, violence,
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inciting content, hate speech. he says they have been unwilling to take the steps. i wonder what you hope to accomplish tomorrow. >> agree. they have been unwilling to take the steps. i led the last major bill with that passed on this with eating disorder which allowed for more treatment options for people with eating disorders. this isn't just some study they did. it is the number one mortality rate, eating disorders are, for women who have mental illness. the number one mental illness disorder is eating disorders when it comes to mortality rate. this is really serious stuff to be messing around with. we talk about vaccine misinformation. we know what that has done. now we find out they have been pedaling this. number one, make the algorithms more transparent. if you are not going do this, i think you got to start looking at taking away their immunity for certain things that they do.
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and that is one answer. the second answer is privacy laws. i look around this place. i am in the capitol right now. i think we have had this big change in our economy. some good. some bad. when it comes to technology. yet we haven't made any changes in any big way to federal privacy laws. we also have made no changes to our competition policies. one of the reasons this is happening is facebook has been able to buy up everything in sight, including whatsapp and instagram. so we will never know, anderson, what bells and whistles they could have developed to protect kids or have more privacy or stop misinformation because in the words of mark zuckerberg, he would rather buy than compete. >> it is interesting, you know, wit with something like instagram, is a lot of is to deasigned to keep your attention as long as possible. there is likes and fun things to do and it just keeps you occupied, keeps you flipping
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around. this is all online. that's what it's all about, clicks and getting clicks on sites. >>ly. >> completely do you want to see mark zuckerberg come before congress on this snmt. >> of course. we can keep having these hearings. >> this has focused the attention. i want to get the privacy legislation done. we know recently apple said to its users, okay, you don't have to opt into this collection of data. 75% of the people didn't want their data collected. they choose not to. we we need to make the federal law of the land so people are protecting their data and privacy. secondly, whether it comes to tech and other consolidation, i lead this effort, i lead the antitrust efforts in the senate. it's bipartisan and we have to do something about the fact that they -- the mergers, the fact that they are able to self-preference, we call it,
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their own stuff, that they buy so that it hurts other competitors. the fact that our enforcers don't have enough resources. these agencies are shadows of their former selves even from during the times of ronald reagan when at&t was broken up. a lot of this is happening right now, slowly but surely. it's like a game of whack-a-mole or whack a behemoth. every corner i go around this capitol, there is some senator saying this lobby told me this. at some point we have to get this done. so as much as i want these hearings and, yeah, we can yell at tech executives, it is time to pass the legislation so that we protect the safety of our kids and competition for our country. that is what capitalism is about. >> you talk about the data. it is so incredible. i never really used to pay much attention to the cookies thing that would pop up. oh, yeah, sure, whatever. the amount of data that we have as individuals have given up to these companies who are then profiting from it and selling
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it, i mean, these companies actually know more about us than we do. i mean, they remember everything that we have ever done. >> do you know how much facebook makes off of you, anderson cooper, in the first quarter of this year? >> how much? >> 51 bucks on your data. every user 51 bucks in america. and this profit plan works a lot better when you hook the kids young, right? so one of the things that we are now learning is how much moneyner making off of our data. everyone's had this experience where you say something or email something and suddenly ads start popping up. >> they also know everything about you. they know everything about, you know, judges and everybody out there. i mean, all around the world. it's really extraordinary when you start to realize the actual power data is power. >> data is power. also there is another thing about this. when you have all the data and it's hard for other companies to compete with you. so years and years of gathering
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the data have made them even more powerful. so that's why the answer is, of course, privacy legislation and we can do this. you just have to have the will and people have to contact their representatives so they support it, and the second thing is to upgrade our competition policy like other countries have done around art the world so we are in a better place to be in the driver's seat with our own data. >> the thing about data is interesting. it does benefit us. oh, i get better ads or better services or they know me and they recommend something. >> you can choose to opt in. >> of course. senator amy coney barrett, really important. appreciate it. >> thank you zoo next, dr. sanjay group that on what the hopps may look like. later clarissa ward with an exclusive new reporting from inside afghanistan. some of the bravest women you are likely to meet and their defiance of the taliban right now.
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sinema how she was confronted sunday while leaving a classroom at arizona state university. protesters were angered about her lack of support for the $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill. here is how some of the constituents at home responded, following her all the way into a bathroom. >> i'll be back. >> we want to talk to you real quick. >> actually, i am heading out. >> right now is a real moment that our people need in order for us to be taable to talk abo what's really happen. we need a build back better plan right now. >> we knock on the door first. we need solutions to build back better. we have the solutions we need. >> we knocked down doors for you to get you elected. just how we got you elected we
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can get you out of office if you don't support what you promised us. >> we can have justice and solutions we need for immigration, labor -- >> build back better! pass the bill! >> so whatever your stance is on the appropriateness or complete lack of appropriateness of follow a senator into a bathroom, the viral video shows growing frustration with some democrats in her home state. critics within her own party question why she feels the need to vote as moderately as she does. joe manchin, democrats win a lot in arizona. joining me to break this down for us, senior reporter harry -- senators often get lumped together. talk about the electoral environments that they both face in their home states. >> they are totally and completely different. you can see this pretty well in
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the 2020 presidential vote if you look at arizona and you look at west virginia. what do you see? in arizona, joe biden barely won, but he won by 0.3 percentage points. west virginia, donald trump won by 39 points. i want take a historical look and go back to the time when i was in college and you have the same job you have. look at 2008. you see, look, west virginia and arizona voted the same. look at the trend over time. look how fast west virginia has moved to the right. last year west virginia 39 point win for trump. you see arizona a 9 point win for romney in 2012, four points in 2016 for trump and biden winning. so west virginia and arizona two completely different trajectories. >> still though clearly a very divided state. so for a senator who needs statewide approval you can make the argument that she wants to
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appeal to as many voters there as possible. she is hoping to keep as many republicans on her side. there are a lot of other democrats who have won in arizona in recent years. >> yeah. it is a divided state. it is a purple state. it's not a red state. if you look at arizona and you compare it to west virginia, you see that kyrsten sinema is one of a number of democrats who have won since 2018. seven. you look at west virginia, it's just joe manchin. joe manchin is literally the only democrat who can win in west virginia. and so you look at the other senator like mark kelly. he won by exactly pretty much the same margin, i think 2.35 verses 2.34. and if you look at that, you can say, wait a minute, you can in fact be a little less moderate in a state like arizona and still win. you can't really be less moderate than joe manchin in west virginia and still win. >> how likely that senator sinema is opening her accept up to a primary challenger? >> it's possible. she is not going to face
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anything until 2024. if you look at arizona and you look at the ideology of democrats there, what do you see? urges see that it basically mirrors the nation as a whole. you see that 58% of registered democrats are liberal there versus 56% nationwide. compare that to a state like west virginia. joe manchin is going to get challenged on the left there was this talk. the majority of democrats in the state of west virginia are moderate conservative. that is not the case in arizona. kyrsten sinema is putting herself in much more electoral danger. >> fascinating. thank you. next, dr. sanjay gupta and some hopeful covid news. and also how the country could have done before against the pandemic. he has a new book coming out tomorrow. we will talk about it tonight when we continue.
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a question being asked tonight, included big some experts that we learned from bitter experience to ask for the greatest caution. are we turning the corner on covid? cases, hospitalizations, deaths have been dropping. cases dropping or holding steady in 44 states. we have been here before. with 700,000 americans now dead, the case for caution and humility is strong. so is the backlash against
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excess caution. dr. fauci said it was too soon to tell if families could gather for christmas. today he gave his own second opinion on it. >> you know, i also said something over the weekend that was taken completely out of context. i was asked, what could we predict for this winter for like december and christmas? >> i was going to ask you. >> yeah, i mean, i say you hold off on that. i said we don't know because we've seen slopes that went down and then came back up. the best way to assure that we we'll be in good shape would be to get more and more people vaccinated. that was misinterpreted as my saying we can't spend christmas with our families. >> which was absolutely not the case. >> he went on to say he would be spending christmas with his family and encouraged vaccinated people to do the same. the cdc is in the process of upgading guidance for the season. dr. sanjay gupta joins us. he has a brand-new book called
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"world war c: lessons from the covid-19 pandemic and how to prepare for the next one." it goes on sale tomorrow. i loved "world war z." totally different book. similar title. "world war c" i'm looking forward to. do you agree with dr. fauci about the holidays? how are you approaching the next few months in terms of celebrating covid? >> i am looking forward to them, anderson. we are seeing some trend lines that are going down. and we should separate that good news with the caveat that you mentioned. you may have sort of these surges a little bit here and there, but i don't think like what we've already seen. i am planning on spending time with my family and even some friends as well. so i think that's part of the luxury of having the immunity, you know, that now gives us this really good protection. but let me show you something that i think is important. i looked at the two previous pandemics. fall and winter always worry some because that's when respiratory viruses like to spread. in 2009 around this time of year back then, this is when you had
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the significant surge, that's when it went up, and then it s sort of just dropped off and stayed low. that was going into the winter and then even into the spring. so it is possible that you could have a significant drop like we are seeing now and it stays low. take it back even further. more than 100 years ago, 1918, 1919, you also had a significant surge. in fact, if you look at the waves at that point, the biggest surge was around this time of the year and then it dropped and you had some smaller surges sort of after that, but nothing like what happened just now. so it is quite possible going into the next few months that the numbers could go down and stay down. that's what i'm hoping for. i am looking forward to the holidays and hope they are a lot different than last year. >> you said go down and stay down. what would be the thing that would bring them back up besides other than a -- some new variant that was far more transmissable? >> i think what you would see is that you'd see significant cases
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still among people who did not have immunity. that's the thing. this is such a contagious virus that there are still, you know, many people have now been exposed to this virus and around the world, but still people have not. as the weather is cooler and drier, sthe may be more at risk. i do want to say we don't know exactly how many people in this country have immunity. it's a strange thing to say. we know how many people have been vaccinated, but there is a component of natural immunity as well. it's not a strategy. no one is saying go out and get infected. but a lot of people have been infected and have some degree of immunity. how long that lasts, how broad it is, we don't know. we saw in 2009 and 1918 because of that prevalent immunity, because so many people had it by this time in the pandemic, the numbers did go down and start to stay down. >> let's talk about your book, "world war c." you write about how some
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countries outside the u.s. did better despite not having a vaccine earlier. what is behind that? >> this is fascinating to me. i am going to show you the united states and south korea. i will preface by saying that when we think of big sort of infectious disease outbreaks, you almost always expect that poorly developed countries are going to get hit the hardest w this pandemic, we saw basically the opposite. wealthy countries, as a general rule, got hit the hardest. wealth does not buy health when it comes to this pandemic. i found that so interesting as we really start today look into the data. if you look at the united states and south korea, south korea is not a developing country. the reason i use it as an example is because the first patient was diagnosed there on the same day the first patient was diagnosed here. they are blue. we're red. i mean, it's a totally different picture. and they are about a sixth of the population. still, i mean, it's really remarkable.
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43 million confirmed cases in the united states. 300,000 in south korea. so, you know, a lot of different things. i think the idea, of course, wealth doesn't buy health, but also if you live in place where you don't have the luxury of saying we are going to have therapeutics, have the public health system acstep up to the challenge, you lean into masking, testing, tracing, and isolating thechlt did that in stalking. it made a huge difference. there are other things. simple things, anderson. cultural things. many asian countries have great reverence for the elderly. not as much, you know, in other places around the world. if this had been a disease that primarily affected adolescents, would we have treated it differently in this country? i don't know. perhaps. that's something that came to mind. here is another little nugget i thought was interesting. almost always when you look at pandemics, the country of origin is usually the least hardest hit
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and as you get further and further away from the country of origin, countries are harder hit. why is that? is there some sort of little precursor immunity that is circulating in a country of origin we are learning about? i don't know. there is a lot of lessons here that we can apply now but also for possible future pandemics. >> and you also -- there is a lot of sort of takeaways for people in the book. you write about the microbiome, which i have been lately obsessed with, and work/life balance. sanjay, very excited about the work. "world war c: lessons from the covid-19 pandemic and how to prepare for the next one." it's out tomorrow. it's going to be everywhere. look forward to it. sanjay, thanks. next, what life is like for women under the taliban regime. is the taliban keeping any promises to respect women's rights in clarissa ward is on the ground in kabul. her exclusive report next. match is this for real? yup! we match all the cash back new card members earn at the end of their first year automatically
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militants have in some instances ordered women to leave the work places. when a group of women protested the announcement of the ail-male government, they were beat with whips and sticks. they have been banned from secondary education. clar ace ward is following developments from kabul. she joins us now. so it's fascinating. what are you seeing? >> well, anderson, basically, women are being completely pushed out of public life. and we're seeing that happen literally. the women's ministry has now been taken over by the feared religious police with the propagation of virtue and the prevention of vice. and we're seeing women trying to protest as you mentioned. some of them are trying to negotiate quietly behind the scenes with the taliban, appeal to them. and neither method is being effective at all because at the
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end of the day the taliban don't know how to deal with women. they don't know how to interact with women and they certainly don't know how to negotiate with women. they are savvy enough, anderson, to understand that in 2021 it is a very bad look to be a country that says women cannot be educated. and so they go out of their way to couch their language. they don't issue actual bans. they say, oh, this is a temporary thing until we create the proper islamic environment. and so the response we're seeing from women, particularly brave women here in the city of kabul, is essentially these extraordinary small acts of resistance and courage as they desperately try to hold on to their space in civic life. a handful of women stand quietly but defiantly. they are here to protest the taliban's de facto ban on girls going to school after fifth grade. a small act of great courage.
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taliban fighters start to pour in. they are heavily armed. a menacing question newark. a new arrival appears unsure of whether to get out of the car. for a moment it seems the taliban may have come to protect the women. but the illusion is quickly shattered. someone from the taliban has just come in telling everyone to put away their cameras. it's getting a little tense over there. a phone ripped out of a woman's hands. they shove journalists back. we try to keep filming, but the taliban don't want the world to see. >> they are ripping the women's posters. put it way. >> a machine gun burst sends a clear message. the protest is over.
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he is the head of the taliban's intelligence services in kabul and the women did not have permission to protest. why does a small group of women asking for their right to be educated threaten you so much? >> i respect women's rights. i respect human rights, he says. if i didn't respect women, you wouldn't be standing here. >> reporter: would you have given them permission if they asked for it? >> yes, of course, he says. we would have. but permissions are illusive and previous protests have met a similar fate. on the streets, the consequences of one recent demonstration can still be seen. at almost every beauty salon, images of women's faces have been defaced as if to erase them from public life completely. the women inside this salon are too scared to appear on camera.
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>> hi! how are you? >> reporter: i ask them about the posters outside. who did it? >> taliban. >> reporter: the taliban did it? >> yeah. >> reporter: the taliban came and drove away the protesters. then they cursed us and said to remove the posters, they tell me. they told us to put on a burqa and sit in our homes. but this city is full of brave women like her who refuse to do that. the mother of five says she was forced to become a taxi driver when her husband was murdered a year ago leaving behind his car, but little else. tell me a little bit about how life has changed since the taliban took power. >> a lot of changes. too many. i am sorry. >> reporter: it's okay. take your time. it's okay.
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>> translator: since the taliban regime has come to power, it has become very difficult. >> reporter: she offers to take us for a ride. it's another small act of courageous resistance. the taliban had not officially banned women from driving, she says she has received threats and that the militants hit her car two weeks ago as a warning. i see the men. they stare at you. they look at you. it's not long before she picks up a fare. usually she prefers to take women and stay in areas she is familiar with. are you aware of the risks that you're taking when you go out every day and do your work? >> translator: yes, yes, in some places where i see taliban checkpoints, i'm forced to go through a street or change my
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route. but i accepted this risk for the sake of my children. >> reporter: on the other side of town an english teacher is also working hard to give her students a better future. the past year has not been easy. in may, a horrific bombing targeted the school where she teaches, taking more than 80 innocent lives. so you were here when the explosions happened? >> yes, i was in front of the door. >> reporter: you were in front of the door? did you see it with your own eyes? >> i saw a very huge explosion in front. other door. >> reporter: incredibly, the school reopened, but weeks later the taliban swept to power and announced that for the time being from 6th through 12th grade, only boys should come to school. it's just very striking that a bomb was not able to stop these
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girls coming to school. now the taliban has been able to stop them from coming to school. >> yes, it's true. every day i see taliban in the streets. i become -- i be afraid. >> reporter: but you are still coming every day, you are still teaching? >> yes, what should we do? what should we do? it's just the thing that we can do for our children, for our daughters, for our girls. >> reporter: in the 5th grade classroom the girls are excited to test their english skills. >> hi! >> i want you to raise your hand if you love school. wow! everybody loves school. >> reporter: this may well be the last year they get to come and study, yet they are still full of hope for the future. raise your hand to tell me what you want to be when you grow up. what do you want to be?
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>> doctor. >> reporter: doctor? okay. who else wants to be a doctor? oh, wow. a lot of doctors. 16-year-old sanam used to have dreams, too. she wanted to be a dentist. the explosion at her school left her with serious injuries, but she was brave enough to go back for the sake she, she says, of her close friend who could not. >> translator: i felt that i must go back and study for the peace of her soul. i must study and build my country so that i can make her wishes and dreams come true. >> reporter: right now you cannot go to school. how does that make you feel? >> translator: i feel all my dreams are crushed and buried. for i won't be allowed to go to school and study. all my motivation is completely gone.
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>> reporter: it's okay. take a minute. it's okay. if you want to stop, we can stop. it's okay. >> translator: no. the taliban are the people who, they are the cause of the situation i am in right now. my spirit is gone. my dreams are buried. >> reporter: and yet recently she has started to read her books again and study a little bit every day. just one more small act of great courage. >> i mean, it's so devastating.
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first of all, the bravery of her and so many of the people who spoke to you and who are, you know, standing there, four people protesting. it's just incredible. what are the official taliban rules regarding women in the workplace? >> reporter: well, you know, as i said, anderson, the taliban are definitely savvier than they were before. they don't issue official drek activities. when ministries started to reopen after the taliban took control, they said for now female employees don't need to come back yet, and it's similar to the language they have used around the ban on girls being educated. they don't need to come back just yet. only boys need to come back until we create the proper islamic environment. as you saw in that school, anderson, segregation is already being implemented in the vast majority of these schools. girls and boys were not being educated together in the same
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rooms. so one has to ask one self, what does this proper islamic environment actually look like? what are they really waiting for? they talked about issues surrounding transport, issues surrounding the curriculum. we see them again and again trying to couch this in islam. for instance, they just announced a whole new round of appointees in the government and, surprise, surprise, there are no women. they say this is because, you know, in islam women have a different space. but that just doesn't make any sense. you look at bangladesh, you look at pakistan, you look at other muslim countries who have had female leaders, there is nothing in islam that says that women can't be educated. and even the taliban seem to recognize that. but they are unable to step up in this moment and be strong enough to be advocates for women's rights. so it is a very frightening situation and a lot of women just waiting to see what will happen. >> the terror, like these
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taliban have of women, is extraordinary. their inability to face them and deal with them, even defacing, you know, the beauty signs. it's just sickening to see, to see those. i appreciate you being there so much. please be careful with you and your crew. coming up, 126,000 gallons of oil spewed into the tell you what caused it and what's being done to clean it up, if that's possible. we'll take you there live, next. e from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i'll shoot you an estimate as soon as i get back to the office. hey, i can help you do that right now. high thryv! thryv? yep. i'm the all-in-one management software built for small business. high thryv! ow. get a free demo at
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and people who encounter the beach seek medical attention. first of all, what have you been seeing all day? >> reporter: anderson, before you could see it, you could smell it. the smell of crude oil in the tar-like substance that smells quite like tar, like someone is tarring a roof. it's pretty pug as you go up and down the coast. we're seeing some oil on the beaches. al lot of folks noticed the smel and wondered what was going on and saw 126,000 gallons of crude oil was oozing into the ocean. this is a big problem to try and figure out exactly where it is because this isn't a huge oil slick you're seeing. you're seeing ribbons of oil and little patches of oil along about 13 square miles according to the coast guard of shoreline, of the ocean and so there is a
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lot of movement to try to get that, contain it and get it out of the ocean before it hits wildlife. unfortunately, it already has taken some wildlife killed, a brown pelican. we know down the street at one of the wildlife refuges, they are trying to get all of this oil off of the wings of birds who are suffering with this, anderson. >> and where did this leak from? >> reporter: we are told the company amplify says that it was leaking from a pipe, then we went and looked at amplifies background. they have just emerged from bankruptcy about four years ago and the company that's a som subsidiary to amplify that is responsible received more than 100 violations that they are supposed to be fixing. so that's concerning to a lot of folks. a lot of folks also wondering why it took so long for them to be notified that this had happened since it was so many gallons over a couple of days
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before they were able to go ahead and put a stop to it. i do want to mention there is one more industry besides the birds and surfers and the tourists and families that live here that are so concerned about this. there are businesses, as well and the tourism industry and i want to let you hear from a man that owns a yacht company that takes people out on charters and what this has done to his business. >> it's not a good feeling. we have our rent to pay. we have our, you know, all kinds of expenses that will keep on going but the income may not be there, so -- >> reporter: people were cancelling, correct? >> exactly. we have to give them back their money. that's only fair. that's not their fault. >> reporter: not their fault he says. he will probably be closed down for about three weeks. anderson. >> sara sidner, appreciate it. the news continues after this break with don and "don lemon tonight."
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