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tv   Fareed Zakaria GPS  CNN  July 25, 2021 7:00am-8:00am PDT

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this is "gps:the global public square." welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live from new york. today on the show, a worldwide exclusive interview with king abdullah ii the jordan. he went to the white house this week as well as capitol hill. now he comes to the global public square for an in-depth interview. we'll discuss his meeting with president biden, the israeli
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palestinian conflict, nuclear talks with iran, and the alleged sedition plot that the king has called the most painful episode of his reign. then, as covid-19 makes a stunning comeback, nations react. britain's quarantined prime minister actually further opened up england this week. they mandated a total pass for leisure travel. we'll examine the pandemic. but here's my take. there is a striking thing that distinguishes this pandemic from all others in history, the speed with which humankind came up with a vaccine. it is unprecedented and still
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breathtaking that within months of the arrival of a novel virus, scientists were able to develop and test several vaccines that all proved to be highly effective at preventing serious illness. but what science has given, politics seems to be taking away. despite having ample supplies of the vaccine, america is stuck with roughly 60% of the adult population fully vaccinated, ensuring that the pandemic will linger perhaps forever. given the tools to end this tragedy, we are choosing to live with it. as the economist points out, the anti-vax movement in america today is unprecedented. there have always been people who objected to vaccinations, but they were on the fringe, a smattering a naysayers. they were usually small, a few outbreaks of measles now and then. this time it's different. in the midst of a raging
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pandemic that has killed 600,000 americans, we have seen the rise of a vast right-wing conspiracy theory about the vaccines. it has been stoked by influential figures in the conservative media and tol tolerated, even encouraged, by powerful republican politicians. the results are damning. as of june, 86% of democrats have received at least one dose compared with just 52% of republicans. all the states with the lowest levels of vaccination, mississippi, alabama, arkansas, wyoming and louisiana voted heavily for donald trump. barely half of republican house members report being vaccinated. now, anti-vax sentiment is not just an american problem. in many places around the world, there are segments of the population, often rural, often less educated, who are vaccine-hesitant. but there are fewer equivalence
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anywhere around the world as the united states, in which misinformation has been spread on a wide scale about a deadly disease. in fact, american misinformation has now gone global, legitimizing and encouraging anti-vaxers around the world. like the u.s., france has had high level of anti-vaxer sentiment, but political leadership seems to be changing things there. their president recently announced that employees would be required to be vaccinated, and the unvaccinated would not be able to enter cinemas, restaurants or take trains or planes. this has drawn negative sentiment, but millions have signed up for the vaccine since macron imposed these rules. though heavy handed, they are not spreading misinformation about vaccines.
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president biden needs to get tough. he should explain that while we cherish freedom in america, you do not have the right to do anything and everything when it endangers the lives of others or places burdens on them. here are some things you are forced to do even in america. go to school. pay taxes. register for the draft if you are male. serve on a jury. there are also many things that you are not allowed to do that might be mistakenly seen as involving no one else. you may not buy or sell controlled substances, litter on public streets, make loud noise after certain hours, and so on. if you drive a car, you are required to get a license, buy insurance, wear a seat belt, obey street signs and splieed limits, have the car inspected and not drink alcohol before driving. if you want your children to go to a public school in america, they must be vaccinated. these are all mandates because seemingly private actions
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actually impose public costs. you should not have the right to spread disease and occupy a precious hospital bed. some republican politicians and conservative media figures are finally urging people to get vaccinated, but they may be too late. as they did with the rise of donald trump, the allegations of voter fraud and the accusations of a stolen election, the republican party has indulged its crazies for too long, fanning the flames of falsehood and creating a miasma of misinformation. even now, leading republican governors like ron desantis are making it prudent to require vaccination in florida. republicans say they are for economic growth and against lockdowns, but it is the republican party and the conservative media, by their actions and negligence, that are endangering america's economy, and far more importantly, the lives of its people.
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go to for a link with my "washington post" column this week. and let's get started. on monday the president welcomed king abdullah ii of jordan to the white house. in doing so, biden thank the the kin king for what he called vital leadership in a tough neighborhood. he shares the border with j gaz israel and the west bank. i had the opportunity to sit down with the king on friday for a wide-ranging exclusive. your majesty, welcome. >> thank you, fareed. >> i have to ask you first about what seems to be the most
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startling thing looking at your part of the world, which is the new government in israel. prime minister netanyahu and yourself had a good relationship but a tough one. the new prime minister says he rules out ever the idea of a palestinian state. in fact, he's talked about n nixing israel and nixing the west bank. how do you look at that government and what do you think the prospects for peace are? >> again, fareed, we've known each other long enough to know that we always look at the glass half full. for the leader in that part of the world, i think it was important to unify messaging because there are a lot of challenges, as you know, that we'll probably get into. it was important for me not only to meet with the palestinian leadership after the war which i met general gantz because we really have to get people at the
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table. so on how we get the palestinians to talk, maybe a two-state solution is the only solution. how can we build the differences between jordan and israel, because it has not been good. but more importantly from my view, is getting the palestinians engaging again. i came out of the meeting fairly encouraged, and i think we've seen in the past couple of weeks not only a better understanding between israel and jordan but the voices coming out of both israel and palestine that we need to move forward and reset that relationship. >> do you think that the israelis can maintain the situation as it is, which is of all these palestinians in the west bank and gaza, israel has serenity over them but they don't have political rights. israel seems to feel, look, we're doing fine. we've become an extraordinarily
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technological regional power, maybe global power. we're economically thriving. art the arabs are making peace with us, even though we haven't moved on the palestinian issue. can't israel keep doing what it's doing? >> i think that's a very fragile facade, and i say that because, again, when we have wars, and we've seen -- there is a template there. i know what's going to happen over the three weeks and how the loss of life and tragedy on all sides. this last war, i thought, was different. since 1998, this is the first time i feel that a civil war happened in israel. when you look at the villages and the towns, arab-israelis and israelis got into conflict. i think that was a wake-up call for the people of israel and for the palestine. unless we move along and give hope to the palestinians, and one of the conversations we had was how do we invest in the lives of palestinians?
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because if they lose hope, and god forbid, another cycle, the next war is going to be even more damaging. nobody ever loses in these conflicts, but the last one, there were no victors. and i think the internal conflict we saw inside towns and cities was a wake-up call for us. >> the influential advisor to president netanyahu said jordan needs to think of itself as the palestinian state. in other words, there is a two-state solution. the palestinian state would be jordan. you have 67% palpalestinians, y could absorb the palestinians on the west bank. what's your reaction? >> that type of rhetoric is nothing new. and basically those people have agendas that they want to do at the expense of others. jordan is jordan. we have a mixed society from
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different ethnic and religious backgrounds. i would maybe contest the percentages and the figures that you mentioned. but it is our country. the palestinians don't want to be in jordan. they want their lives. they want their football team. they want their flag to fly above their houses. so that takes us into very dangerous rhetoric. as you alluded to, if we do not talk about the two-state solution, then, again, are we talking about a one-state solution? is it going to be fair, transparent and democratic? i think the one-state solution is far more challenging to those in israel that pushed that theory than the two-state solution, which is the only way. what are you going to do? are you going to push all the palestinians out of their homes in the west bank and just create instability on the other side? at the end of the day, jordan gets a vote in this.
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and i think our red lines have been clearly identified. >> your majesty, what has it been like meeting with joe biden compared to his predecessor? this is a very different president from the one we had before. >> well, i have fortunately had a very strong relationship with all presidents, and that is because my father taught me that you have to respect the office of the president, the head of state, and that's not just america. and my discussions have always been fruitful, done in mutual respect and understanding. president biden i have known since i was a young man visiting the congress with my father when he was a young senator. so this is an old friendship. and i was just so delighted to see him in the white house, and i don't know what images came out, but my colleagues that were with me could just see the chemistry there. and my son has known the
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president, and as joe biden was the vice president, my son used to go and visit him at his house and in his office. so it's a family friendship. >> do you expect that you will get a different policy out of biden than trump? >> well, we've lost a couple years, and part of it, obviously, has been the pandemic. so it's not the issue of a different policy, it's more of what other plans that are out there. i mentioned syria, but also i want to look at lebanon, the crisis there. the people are suffering, starvation is just around the corner, the hospitals are not working, and a lot of discussions we've had here, and i know the americans are working with the french. when the bottom does fall out, and it will happen in weeks, what can we do as an international community to step in, knowing that whatever plans we come up with, we will fall short of our aims and we will let people down. so i think it's can we build
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plans to sort of move the region into the right direction? next on "gps," i will ask king abdullah about what he called the most difficult part of his reign and what looked like an attempted coup by his half-brother. that in a moment. (naj) at fisher investments, our clients know we have their backs. (other money manager) how do your clients know that? (naj) because as a fiduciary, it's our responsibility to always put clients first. (other money manager) so you do it because you have to? (naj) no, we do it because it's the right thing to do. we help clients enjoy a comfortable retirement. (other money manager) sounds like a big responsibility. (naj) one that we don't take lightly. it's why our fees are structured so we do better when our clients do better. fisher investments is clearly different. ♪
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i'm making this recording to make it clear that i'm not part of any conspiracy or nefarious
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organizational foreign-backed group. >> that was prince hamza, king abdullah's half-brother, the spitting image of their father, king hussein. the world was stunned when jordanian officials said they had what was called the deepest interruption in the kingdom. just days later, hamza reversed course and pledged loyalty to the king, who i asked about these events. let me ask you about stability in jordan itself, because your country is often seen as a kind of island of stability in a very rough neighborhood. you've recently had what was -- what looked to the outside world like an attempted coup. what happened there and what do you see are the prospects for any stability in the future? >> well, again, you know, when
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we look at crises all over the world, and i think in this day and age, we tend to look at crises as a snapshot without really understanding the journey that actually, for example, jordan has undertaken over the past several years. regional instability, wars, refugees, covid. and we've had to look at many characters that tend to use people's frustrations and legitimate concerns of challenges that they have in making their lives better to really push on their own agendas and inhibitions. what i think made this so sad, that one of the people was my brother who did it in such an amateurish and really disappointing way. from our point, the intelligence services, as they always do, gather information, and it got to a point where they had
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legitimate concerns that certain individuals were trying to push on my brother's ambitions for their own agendas and decided quite rightly to nip it in the bud and quietly. if it hadn't been for the irresponsible matter of secretly taping conversations with officials from jordan or making videos, you and i wouldn't be having this conversation. and i believe that, you know, i am really proud when members of our family are successful, when they can reach out to society. now, in this particular case, if somebody has set ambitions, i can only do so much for them, but i believe from a human point of view, it comes down to sincerity at the end of the day. it's very easy to use people's grievances for personal agendas. but are you sincere with what
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you're trying to do for your people? at the end of the day, we all had a responsibility to be able to come up with solutions for the people. this is just not jordan-centric, many families around the world have these challenges. if you're a member of the royal family, you have privileges. you need to respect those privileges. but also there are restrictions. and the politics at the end of the day is a purview of the monarch. so it's just unfortunate, unnecessary and just created problems that we could have avoided. >> one of the people who was part of it was very close to the crown prince of saudi arabia. do you believe there was a saudi hand in this? >> this is being looked at as a domestic issue. we all know that the ambassador who used to work in jordan is an advisor inside arabia. he holds a saudi-american
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passport. we have witnessed external relations on this issue. but as i said, we're dealing with this as a domestic problem, and i think, again, knowing jordan, finger pointing does not help at all. we have enough challenges in the region. we need to move forward. this is, i think, always been the jordanian efforts to look to the future. i think we're all about mitigating challenges and difficulties as opposed to adding to them. >> let me ask you, this week your great-grandfather was assassinated 70 years ago at the temple mount. does it feel to you as though in those 70 years, things just remain the same? do you feel as though things have gotten better, particularly on the issue? he was assassinated by palestinian gunmen. it feels like things haven't moved that far forward. >> well, we're celebrating our
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centennial, and if you look at the history of our country with all the shocks and most of them external, it's just amazing that jordan is still jordan. and that reflects, i believe, on the legacy of members of my family, but more importantly, i think the steadfastness of the jordanian people. we do live in a difficult neighborhood. you've got to sort of wake up every morning to look at the glass half full. these are challenges that i hope, you know, the waking up of looking at regional politics or trying to bring people together is what my father inherited from him and what i inherited from my father and what my son has inherited from me. so as difficult as the challenges are, i believe that we can come together. my great-grandfather, as you said, was killed on the steps of the mosque in jerusalem.
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what we've all been about, always, is looking at jerusalem as a city that brings muslim christians and jews together. it's just inconceivable to me why we would want anything else. my role, my son's role will continue to be how do we make this a city of hope, a city of peace and bringing people together. hopefully that reflects to other policies as we deal with challenges. >> your majesty, it's always an hon hor and a pleasure to talk you. >> thank you, fareed. next on "gps," the latest on covid, the delta variant and all the other variants to come. we'll look at how the world is handling this all and what you need to know with experts.
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covid is on the rise again in the u.s. where there is an average of 50,000 new cases per day up from 50% from just a week earlier. also in tokyo, the host city of the olympics where almost 2,000 new cases were reported on thursday. that's the most since january before vaccines were available in japan. nearly 150 cases of covid have been linked to the olympics so far. nations all over the globe are feeling the crush of covid from south africa to spain, columbia to cuba and many more. so what do we need to know about the delta variant that is fueling much of this? joining me now are dr. tom frieden and davis freer.
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davis, let me start with you. is this all happening because of the delta variant and the fact that this delta variant is twice as infectious, at least, as the original variant? and the other question is, is this the shape of things to come? the virus also adapts. are we going to see another even more trance -- transmissible variant? >> adding to that, actually, children, adolescents are where we have a lot of lower antibodies and where we're going to see this flying. are there going to be more variants? of course there are going to be more. the question is will we see any
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more transmissible than the delta, and i think we should be prepared for whatever is around the corner. >> tom, when you look at the degree to which this is rising and getting really bad in places like africa, indonesia, why is that happening and how worrying is to you? >> i think there are a couple of things that are very concerning. one is that the delta variant, as you say, it's at least twice as infectious as the prior variants or prior strains. that means we are going to see, in the u.s., very substantial increases in spread in the coming weeks, especially in places that have low vaccination rates. where you're vaccinated, the good news is that delta is something that the mrna vaccines protect from very well. however, where there are unvaccinated people, either because they haven't accepted the vaccination or they don't have access to it, delta is going to continue to drive large
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waves that are deadly. that's why, fareed, it's so important that the world come together and further scale up the mrna technologies. this is our best insurance portfolio against both more dangerous variants which could evade vaccines and against problems with production with many of the other vaccine types. >> devi, what does this mean, though, for the -- you know, the m mythical herd immunity? because it seems like even in places like britain, israel, where you have very high vaccination rates, the delta makes it harder for there to be a herd immunity phenomenon if it ever is achieved. >> yeah, exactly. because it's more transmissible, the threshold we have to cross to have transmission stopped gets higher and higher. some estimate as much as 98% of
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people have to be vaccinated, so pretty much everyone. nowhere in the world have we seen higher infection waves, look at wuhan, brazil, they're still seeing infection occur, or in places like britain and israel, we are seeing cases -- again, cases are on the uptick. it is a challenging situation. what do we have to do about it? we need to vaccinate the world, as tom said, we need to encourage people with safe distancing, wearing coverage indoors. we'll get through this but it's not over yet. >> when we come back, i'm going to ask tom and devi about all these things. what do we need to do to stay safe? how do we ensure our children are safe? and why are children still getting covid? all those questions when we come back.
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we are back here on "gps" talking about the delta variant with tom frieden and de devi sridhar. tom, let me ask you about a question i'm hearing the last few days. people are hearing about people who are double-vaccinated, often with the mnra vaccine, and are still getting covid. is this something that worries you? how should people think about it? >> fareed, this is really expected. 162 million americans are fully vaccinated against covid. if these individuals weren't vaccinated, we would be seeing millions of cases and tens of thousands of deaths from covid. instead we're seeing a handful of severe infections, and tragically, some deaths, but that remains rare. these vaccines are astonishly ef -- astonishingly effective, but
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no vaccine is perfect. because of that, we need to have layered levels of protection and we need to continue to monitor to see whether future strains, future variants might actually be more of a problem. right now it looks like the mrna vaccines are quite effective, especially against severe disease, even with the delta variant. >> tom, do you think people should be getting booster shots? there is data coming out of israel and some more that says that the pfizer vaccine may have -- the antibodies may last six to nine months, not, you know, a year to 18 months as people had thought. when do we need a booster shot for those of us who are double vaccinated? >> there are two different issues here, fareed, important when you consider them differently. the first is what about people who have severe immune problems or are on transplant medications or are, in other ways, maybe not responding well to the vaccine? they might require a third dose
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or a higher dose. that is done with other vaccines, so it might be necessary here. whether the immunity to these -- to covid wanes over time, we really don't know yet. because the antibodies go down, we don't know if antibody levels correlate with production. as more time goes by and we learn more about who is getting breakthrough infections, what the risk factors are, until we know that we won't know whether we need boosters, when, and who will need them. >> devi, we're coming up soon to the beginning of the school year. there is a big controversy in many countries about whether young children need to be vaccinated. there is one school that says, look, they get infected but it's not a big deal. it's like getting the flu. let them get infected, get the antibodies. others say it's dangerous, we don't know what covid's long-term effects will be. you're about to publish a big article in "the guardian" about this. where do you come down?
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>> yeah, so i am obviously kind of sympathetic to the idea that children are relatively less affected than older age groups, but we have a safe and effective vaccine already approved for children older than 12. it's already used in the united states and a trial is on the way for children under 12. if there is a safer way to protect children rather than just let them get infected, and the cdc has done careful analysis on this, then we should be vaccinating children and protecting their educational experience and making sure they don't get long covid, sustainability that children can have. looking at what different countries are doing, it seems like most countries have agreed to go ahead and vaccinate children 12-plus and to hope we get vaccines ready to go for those who are under 12 soon, and by winter, hopefully. >> do you think that once vaccinated, schools could open, no problems, you don't even have to worry about the six feet apart and masking and things
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like that? >> yes, i don't want to say no problems ahead because this new virus has challenges. but imagine how many children have been disrupted and had to determine at home, without access to wi-fi or were learning at all. if it requires masks, look at prevalence. yes, have children wear masks, and then decide on distancing. the problem with distancing, at least in britain, if you do implement that, it means many schools cannot run at full capacity, which means you're back at a blended model and that tends to hit schools in private areas where people are living in crowded settings, and the children who need to most be in school. it's looking at various investigations and can schools do the bulk of the heavy lifting once children are vaccinated. >> tom, we're talking about worrisome news here, but i want you to explain the good news here, which is the extraordinary
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technology behind this mrna vaccine. we often talk about how within nine months of this coronavirus, we got vaccines that were safe and effective. but the truth is, it took three days to develop these mrna vaccines. the rest of it was all testing. can we expect that because of that extraordinary technology, if there are new variants, we will be able to go back to the mrna process, and within a few days, have a new vaccine for that variant? >> the mrna technology, fareed, has been getting developed for more than two decades. so in a way it was a just in time availability of this very powerful technology, asknd yes,t should be easier within days to weeks to develop new tweaks to the vaccine that address new variants if those arise. and it may even be possible to use mrna technologies to protect against other viruses, including
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influenza. so it's an exciting new development. they're remarkably effective, they're extremely safe and they've been available in record time. the tragedy is, first, that so many people in the u.s. and some other countries have access to them and aren't getting them, and many will die as a result. and that so many people who want them and need them don't have access yet. and as a world, we have to fix that problem. >> dr. tom frieden, de devi sridhar, pleasure to have you both on. always informative. thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you. next on "gps," if the absolutely extreme weather around the world these past days didn't scare you enough, what if i told you this may be the new normal? we'll explain when we come back. ) no - we actively manage client portfolios based on our forward-looking views of the market. (other money manager) but you still sell investments that generate high commissions, right? (judith) no, we don't sell commission products. we're a fiduciary,
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and now for the last look. we are watching an extraordinary confluence of crazy weather all over the world. this week a year's worth of rain lashed central china, city of chengchow, just over the course of three days. disturbing video on social media, people stuck on a flooded subway in the city as water rose all around them. last week germany was inundated by rains that clogged its rivers
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and flooded entire villages. according to "time," german villages compared the devastation to world war ii. and in a place that is often used as the shorthand for frigid temperatures, northern siberia, summer temperatures have gotten as high as 100 degrees fahrenheit. as the "new york times" reports, raging forest fires there have begun to melt the permafrost. but there is one example of extreme weather that truly exceeds all others, the four-day heat wave that settled on the pacific northwest in the end of june. in portland, temperatures reached 116 degrees, about 40 degrees above the average high temperature for that time of the year. and nine degrees higher than the previous historical record. in seattle, temperatures hit 108 degrees, which isas the "nation
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geographic" noted it is nine degrees than it's ever been in tampa, florida. the town of litton reached a record high and then beat it. and the mercury rose to 110 degrees. that was not only the highest temperature recorded in all of canada, it was also the highest temperature reached at a latitude of 50 degrees north of anywhere in the world. then lytton was engulfed and almost completely destroyed by wildfires. over the region, hundreds of people died, over a thousand were hospitalized. people flocked to cooling centers because they never before needed to own air conditioners. and a group of scientists who are part of a global collective called world weather attribution began to look at how this might have happened. they performed what's known as a rapid attribution study which ames to find out how much climate change contributed to a particular weather event. they do it very quickly, in this case, in ten days. they used historical observations of the weather in
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the region going back as far as 1850. as the "new york times" notes, they use 21 models to simulate what the weather would be like if humans had never pumped greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. they found that the heat wave in the pacific northwest would have been virtually impossible without the advent of climate change. but there was something else that stumped the scientists. the heat wave was so far beyond historically observed temperatures that it couldn't be captured by the statistical model. calculating at current levels of global warming, the model notes that something strange like this could happen once every thousand years. perhaps the weather last month was a once in a thousand-year
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fluke. but the study raises another possibility. perhaps scientists' previous understanding that temperatures during heat waves would rise gradually as climate change advanced was wrong. yon von oldenberg, one of the people studying this, said wild increases in temperature are much more likely. such an assumption-shattering hypothesis has needs for study, of course f, and the group it working on it. we are working on the assumption of best case or average case scenarios. but what if things cascade and we end up with something closer to extreme weather all the time? that is the terrifying prospect we must now consider. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week.
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hey, i'm brian stelter live in providence, rhode island, and this is "reliable sources" where we examine the story and figure out what's reliable. this week the tokyo olympics brought to you by nbc. will the networks sink or swim in their coverage? we have brand new audio from a former president that you need to hear to believe. later really important new book. it's about the lan