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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  July 20, 2021 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT

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texas near blue origin's launch site one. chris is off tonight. in this hour of 360 my conversation with jeff and mark bezos after their history making flight into space.
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>> and vaccination is the most
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powerful tool we have. >> i available.
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>> so really being very careful about these precautions. and i think finally, anderson, just having some criteria at this point because we're here on the ground. it's confusion now because as you mentioned the ceo says the games could still be canceled at the 11th hour. what other criteria, those are the types of things i think we all want to know. >> just talking about this johnson & johnson issue, should -- if you've had a johnson & johnson and one shot, should you get a booster shot? >> let's clarify the situation. as you pointed out there was a study similar in size and reported a few weeks ago that found just the opposite conclusion. i think at this point we do need more data. we do want to take protect if they do need a booster dose with j&j, but i think it's a little
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too early to come to the conclusion that's what we need right now. i think it's possible all the vaccines will ultimately need that. >> testing.
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you know vaccinated people in the united states really don't get tested even if they've been exposed to someone with covid. and the reason it's important. so it's early study. as mike pointed out there are different studies that have shown the opposite, but i think we need to be ahead of this, and that probably means collecting more data. >> professor, i mean everything we've seen happen, doesn't it all just reinforce the truth that scientists already know which is vaccines are right now the best hope for humanity and for all of us getting back to some semblance of normal. and whether it's the delta variant, the longer this goes on, there's going to be other variants, which this thing will continue to mutate. isn't that right? >> right. and in fact, i think if there's
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anything anyone takes away from tonight's discussion here there's one number we must never forget. there are 100 million americans right now that have not been vaccinated, have not previously had covid and are susceptible to this virus. 100 million people in this country. if we don't vaccinate those people or a large portion of them, we are going to see play out throughout the country, throughout the world exactly what we're seeing right now in missouri, arkansas and the other southern states. let me just say since the beginning of the pandemic we've had rises and falls in cases in this country. much of it's been regional in basis. but for the first time we're now seeing literally all 51 states plus the district of columbia see major case rises. we've had 42 states in the last two weeks that had a 100% rise in cases all tied to delta. i think it's really important to understand, yes, vaccination is everything.
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and this virus will find you if you're not vaccinated and protected. >> and sanjay, the week of july 3rd the delta variant accounted for 50% of the cases you knew about, and as you said we're not testing a lot of people. now it's 83%. the cdc director, dr. walensky, said it's a dramatic change. can you talk about why the delta variant, you know, trying to make the case for someone out there may be on the fence getting vaccinated -- how much easier is it to catch the delta variant than it was other forms of covid. >> well, you know, there's all sorts of different ways to measure this, but i've been telling my friends and colleagues, you know, about a study that came out last week looking at the viral load. you know, someone gets infected, the virus starts to replicate in their body. how much it replicates, too, is sort of that viral load. what we know is that the viral load in someone infected with
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the delta variant is 1,000 times roughly and maybe even more than that higher than the original strain we've been talking about, 1,000 times. so all the things you got away with maybe taking your mask off, not being diligent about things, whatever it might be, you're not going to get away with that. if you think this is sort of in the rearview mirror, you've got to remember because this is so much more contagious, the country is sort of fractionating into those who are vaccinated and those who will almost assuredly become infected. we're at the best part of the year right now in the united states even here in japan in terms of the weather. that reduces transmission. as we go into the fall with a variant that's that much more transmissible, it's a problem. and it doesn't have to be that way. we can still make a huge amount of progress if we focus on the vaccinations now. >> yeah. it doesn't have to be that way. and, you know, we hear from people who are now hospitalized who say, oh, i wish i got vaccinated, and, you know, i wish everybody could hear that because it's so frustrating that
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we have to wait for people to get hospitalized and face death to change their minds. and not even that necessarily convinces others. so appreciate all you're doing. still to come tonight, house select committee on the capitol riot one week from today. the question is will house speaker nancy pelosi let republicans who voted participate? and my conversation with jeff bezos and his brother mark with the history that was made today when we continue. ♪ clearly, velveeta melts creamier. at philadelphia, we know what makes the perfect schmear of cream cheese.
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service. just what that criterion is, however, she didn't say. >> we know what this is. this is impeachment round three. this is go after president trump. so what are they going to do? the same old thing. go after president trump who was the most successful president in our lifetime. they're going to go after him again. >> joined now by democratic congressman jason crow, a veteran who was in the capitol that day and won praise for his ability to lead and project calm during the riot. congressman, do you think speaker pelosi should allow these five congressmen to serve on the committee? >> thank you, anderson. always good to be with you. i think speaker pelosi will always make the right decision. and either way i see merits in allowing the selection to go forward or not allowing it to go forward because i've long said that our obligation and what we have to do our oaths of office and find the truth doesn't
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depend on what other people have to do. that is no different today. if the republican party and kevin mccarthy want to be -- you know, want to have their standard bearers on this to be folks that believe in the big lie and want to sweep this under the rug, their american people deserve to know that. if they want to have a more subsstptive and robust debate, vbts we'll have that. >> did did it surprise you he didn't support the more controversial appointments like matt gaetz or marjorie taylor greene? >> i don't know what he's thinking. there are certainly some folks that he put forward, his nominees for this committee that have leadership within the republican caucus, leadership within certain committees, so
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that's telling to some degree. at the end of the day we're going to have to have a discussion about what happened. that's what this committee is all about. and regardless of who he points and whether jim jordan or others want to talk about, you know, whether this is about going after donald trump, which it's not or talking about what happened on january 6th the truth will come out. we will know the truth and the truth will set the american people free. and that's what's going to happen at the end of the day here. >> you know, a lot of supporters of the former president probably agree with jim jordan who says he wants to serve because this is, quote, impeachment round three. this is to go after president trump. and i don't frankly blame the democrats for doing this because what else they got, end quote. what do you say to those who believe that? i mean how do you say this is not about going after the former president? >> here's the truth. january 6th was an insurrection against our democracy.
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there was an attack on our capitol. over 140 police officers were brutally beaten. up to six folks lost their lives including police officers as a result of the action of those rioters, those insurrectionists. it derailed temporarily the certification of our election. that was the intent of that attack on our capitol. we have never seen anything like that. i saw it first-hand. i was there. i know what happened. people that watched it live know what happened. the video shows very clearly what happened. it's important not just for history that we tell the real story about what happened but it's important to move forward as a country because we cannot actually protect our democracy and public safety unless we actually deal with this extremist movement, we deal with the big lie and we tell the truth about what this was all about. that's what this committee is about. of course defenders of donald trump are going to try to cast it about something else. they will try to do that.
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we won't let them do that because we know what happened. we're going to continue to tell that story. >> in this new book from "the washington post" reporters carol leonnig and philip rucker joining me tomorrow night, they write about an exchange. they write while these maniacs are going through the place i'm standing in the aisle -- this is in the voice of liz cheney -- i'm standing in the aisle and he said, talking about jordan, we need to get the ladies out of the aisle, let me help you. i smacked his hand and told him get away from me, you effing did this. do you think congressmen hold responsibility for what happened? >> first of all it doesn't surprise me at all that's what liz cheney would say. that definitely seems like something liz cheney would say. there's no doubt in that mind about that. i think people that continue to perpetuate the big lie, cast the events of that day and sweep it under the rug continue to bear
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responsibility. there's no doubt in my mind about that. listen, i've had many conversations with police officers that held the line that day. and there was one conversation that just sticks in my mind that i cannot get out. and it's a young man who i've gotten to know in the last couple of years, i've become friends with. and he was on the riot team that day. the next day i called him and i checked him, and i said how are you doing? you hanging in there? and he said, sir, you know, i am covered in bruises. i can barely walk. i was holding the line as much as i could. i fought back for hours until finally that crowd overwhelmed me and i just laid on the floor and they brutally beat me. and the only thing i could think of where are the members, i'm failing the members. and he broke down in tears with me and said i failed you, i should have held the line more. and i said you did not fail, other people failed you, you did your job. and we're going to tell the truth, we're going to get to the bottom of this and you're going to get the leadership and accountability you deserve. that's what this is about, and i'm not going to back down.
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>> congressman, i appreciate it. thank you. >> thanks. up next, the history made not far from where i'm standing, the first crude flight of blue origin shepherd one, a conversation with two of the passengers, jeff and mark bezos, what it was like and where it leads. what is the future of all of this in space? ♪ ♪ oh, son of a poppyseed! ah, there's no place like panera. enjoy the cool, refreshing strawberry poppyseed salad.
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small steps but giant leaps. that's how astronaut chris haddonfield describeed the launch over my shoulder. the sound is really just extraordinary. being here we watched new shepherd, the rocket named after allen shepherd who became the first american in space 60 years ago this may launch from that pad. here's how both looked and sounded. >> t-minus 7, 9, 8, 5, 4, command and start. >> liftoff and the clock is starting .
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>> on tv you really don't get a sns of just the power of that engine. as i said from 3 miles away standing here when it went off, it was so loud. it was incredible. onboard the new shepherd amazon founder jeff bezos and his brother mark, and also 82-year-old wally funk who became the oldest person ever in space and 18-year-old oliver damen who was the youngest. for a few brief minutes they felt the weight of the world disappear. >> okay, oh, wow. >> oh, wow, that's incredible. >> whoo! >> i love each of them had the same reaction. oh, wow. what else can you say? soon, probably too soon they were drifting back home. their final few feet cushioned
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by a small rocket. the booster that launched them also amazingly returned safely so it can be reused and landed vertically. tech logically a huge achievement. a short time later i spoke with jeff bezos and his brother mark inside a training capsule which is virtually identical to the one that car thed them into space. you spent summers on your granddad's ranch in south texas. i imagine looking up at the sky and stars. what do you think your grandfather would think about you and mark today? >> we called him pop, and he was a gigantic figure in our lives. we spent a lot of time with him. i think if he were here he would have been the most proud, most excited of all the people present. so he had this curiosity about him and his wonder. when we knew him he was a rancher but before that he worked for darpa at one point and did other things.
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>> might have been in the vehicle with you. >> he would have. there was a long line of people trying to stow away in that vehicle this morning including our dad. >> yeah, we had to check -- >> you called blue origin the most important thing you will do in your entire career. i mean you built amazon. that's pretty huge. you employed half a million people. how can blue origin be bigger or more important? >> yeah. i think one way to think of this is, you know, we need to build a road to space. i mean build infrastructure, reusable space vehicles and so on so that the next generations can build a future. >> you talk about the infrastructure you already had in place when you started doing amazon. you had the postal service -- >> exactly. so when i started amazon i was a young guy, and this is 27, almost 30 years ago. and i didn't have to build a package delivery system. it existed. it was called the postal service
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and ups and royal mail and deutsche post and so on. that would have been hundreds of billions of dollar in capital expense to build. >> so if some smart kid in a dorm room right has a dream for space they can't do it. >> that's exactly right. but if we can lay that infrastructure and then do that hard work, then they will be able to be a bunch of experts -- maybe the young guy oliver who flew with us today, maybe he'll be one of them. >> you talked about presidents on the moon. what will that look like? >> there's a couple things. one it's really about moving heavy industry. i know it sounds fantastical, and it is fantastical. but we really have to move heavy industry and polluting industry off earth. >> nuclear power plants, coal
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plants. >> everything. beam the energy down-to-earth. we'll make it in space, probably solar, we'll beam it down. when we make chips and microchips and everything else, all that dirty polluting stuff we'll make it in space and do those activities in space. it'll be much better. this planet is so precious, anderson, and you can see it. what we saw today, we got up there and we looked out. we see when we're on the ground we think the atmosphere is big. but really the atmosphere is tiny. it's just this tiny little fragile thin layer and we all depend upon it for our lives. and we've got to stop polluting it. so that is something -- but that can't be done today. if you try to move heavy industry off earth today, that's just crazy. >> so what is the time line for something like that? >> decades. it won't be done in my lifetime. but what i can do and the whole blue origin team can do is lay the foundation for that work. that's what we mean when we say build a road to space. because then there'll be other
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people driving on that road and they'll do much greater things. >> why do you want to have people on the moon? >> the moon is a great resource. one of the great things about the moon is it has a very low gravity -- takes 27 times less energy to lift a pound of material off the moon than it does to lift a pound of material off the earth. if you want to build big structures in space, you want to go get materials from the moon. >> obviously you stepped down as ceo of amazon. you have a little more time on your hands. are you going to focus more on blue origin and how much you've been liquidating to fund it. are you going to do more than that? >> i'm also using a lot of amazon stock for the bezos earth fund. so the two big initiatives i know of right now i'm going to focus on is blue origin the bezos earth fund which is all about sustainability, climate
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change, protecting the natural world. we have to work on the here and now of that, too. so blue origin is working on the future but we have to work on the here and now of that as well. >> elon musk told "the washington post," your newspaper if blue origin is to be successful you should run it full time and he hopes you do that. >> well, bob smith is the ceo of blue origin, and he's running it amazingly well. he's been here only a few years. i'm not taking bob's job. but i am going to spend more time on it. i'm going to have the time to spend on it. so i'm going to be right in there rolling up my sleeves deep in it. >> did you know what to expect? i mean intellectually you can know about spaceflight, but to actually go up and experience it. >> we went through about 2 1/2 days of training. we were prepared for basically what a nominal mission should -- what the experience should be like. but watching a power point and watching some slid yos and experiencing it are very different things. i was not prepared for what the
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actual g-forces felt like on liftoff and when we were accelerating. when the crew capsule separated from the booster. we knew what sound to expect, but that sort of jump as the springs released, and then, you know, just the experience zero-g it was remarkable. >> when you were all sitting there together before you entered the capsule, what did you talk about? i mean there's danger, a million things must be going around in your mind. >> wally kept asking what's taking so long. that's when you get to be wally, you're impatient. we're talking about it she's like there's a six minute delay, why, what's=x going on. so that was part of it. we told each other we love each other. it's emotional, too. we left this morning when we we left ,feft the house, we lef crack of dawn -- well, way before the crack of dawn.
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and all of our family was there and we gave each other big hugs and it was a very emotional morning. >> there was also a moment while we were all sitting on the launchpad before we took off and jeff sort of spoke to the crew. guys, before we go if i could just ask you a favor. and he said what we're about to do is going to be extremely fun and extremely exciting, but he goes but i would also encourage you if you will while you're up there, while you're taking in these views to understand how important what we're about to do is. and he was able to say, look, you know, i know what something big looks like when it was small, right? and he has that credibility from starting amazon nearly 30 years ago. right, ecommerce was nothing back then. >> and you had the same idea about blue origin. >> this is how something big starts. i know what it feels like this and this feels exactly the same. >> it's the beginning. take it in. >> but to get to the point
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you're talking about you need a ton more companies coming up with new ideas, new ways to build rockets, everything. >> anderson, that's exactly right. great industries and great change is not ever made by a single company. it's made by a whole ecosystem of companies and organizations and government organizations, everything all working as part of an ecosystem. so that's what's going to happen -- that's what has to happen. but those first steps, sometimes you can just feel, you know, big things start small. they always do, and you can just tell this is -- what we did today people can say it's a tourm mission, it's the suborbital, but it's an operational commercial vehicle we can use to practice over and over and over, take people up over and over and over and get really good at doing space travel. and it is like the barnstorming days. you know, that's where we are right now, and that eventually leads to the 787.
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>> there are a couple of progressive democrats who tweeted out today saying it's a waste of money, there are more important things. to that what do you say? you gave an answer and the money you gave $200 million away today, but what is the importance of this? >> what i would say is first and foremost we have to do both. so, for example, we have lots of problems on earth. we have poverty. we have hunger. we all kinds of problems. we have climate disasters. we have pollution. we have to work on the here and now. and -- and we have to look to the future. and we as a society, as a civilization, as humanity, we've always done that. we've never just focused on the present -- >> and what happens if we don't do this? >> if you don't focus on the future then you don't have explorers, you don't have progress. you know, what if you said to wilbur and orville wright hey, guys, why don't you work on something a little more practical?
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you're smart guys, surely you could use your brains to do something a little more practical, but that's what exploration is. it's a kind of wandering. and all research and development and all small things have that characteristic they're not obvious how they're going to work out, that's what exploration is. >> do you have mom written on your hand? >> yes, we do. he's got hi written on his. it's almost washed now. when we were. that's because i flipped upside down and when we were in zero g and i put my hand there, so it was like this. and we got that photo. we weren't sure. >> we rehearsed it a few times. >> rehearsing that on earth is so challenging. >> it's nice to know you're still a mama's boy. congratulations. >> thank you very much. >> and his mom and dad were here
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to watch their sons in space. joining us now cnn aerospace analyst miles o'brien. it's really interesting to hear jeff bezos talk about his kind of vision. he's obviously got a track record of making, you know, futuristic or impossible visions a reality, and he certainly has the money to do it, with some $200 billion or however much he has right now. building that road to space it is all about sustainability and the reusable rockets are critical for that. >> yeah, and he's proven he can do it. i just love that line that the two brothers rift on, the idea that i know that something big looks like when it's small. and when they say that it really resonates, doesn't it? and to make something big in space it has to be reusable. imagine, anderson, if every time we got on a 737 and flew to cleveland they threw away the
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airliner. we wouldn't be doing much of that. we tried to make it reusable during the shuttle era, but that didn't go so well. it turned out to be very expensive the way it was done. the way musk is doing it, the way bezos is doing it, the preserving the pieces in a way that makes it efficient to use them. and once you start lowering that cost and make it more repeatable which is what reusability is all about, it just changes the equation. you know what we used to say in the shuttle era, it was $10,000 per pound of anything to put it in space. that's your weight in gold and then some. that is down by orders of magnitude now because of these guys. >> and if space is to become a -- you know, a place where -- in bezos' mind it's where heavydry is ultimately moved and earth becomes a place to live and have light industry, and that's a future way to protect the planet as well, that
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requires just a huge investment in bringing kaulss down and having rockets that can come and go. the way we have been doing spates for the last, you know, generations, that's just not sustainable. that's not going to get us to the kind of vision that he's talking about. >> no. but you have to keep doing it. just like pick your date whether it's december of '03 or may of '27 with lindbergh. imagine aviation in those moments and what it took to get to where we are today that's the nature of trying to project these things out. if it continues and these guys have proven they can do this. they're going to do it again. it may not have quite the coverage we're giving it now for sure, but there are going to be other people going to write big check tuesday do this, and
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slurly those checks are going to get small, and what that leads to is sometimes hard to see, and it seems like science fiction what jeff bezos says we're going to do microchips in space. but again the 787, what would you say in 1903 about that? >> listen, i still don't know how an iphone works,o i'll believe anything that anything is possible these day. miles o'brien, appreciate it. loved experiencing this day with you. really appreciate you being with us throughout the day. coming up next tom brady was at the white house today. details on that when we come back.
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a little preparation will make you and your family safer in an emergency. a week's worth of food and water, radio, flashlight, batteries and first aid kit are a good start to learn more, visit i'm old enough to remember a time a couple years ago when the former president's love of tom brady was so intense if "the washington post" wondered if he had a man crush on the now 43-year-old quarterback. even before he entered office he repeatedly tweeted about tom was his friend and a total winner, and that were, quote, so jealous of tom brady. which is why what happened at the white house today probably kind of hurt the man at mar-a-lago. gotta confess didn't have -- oh,
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dan. senior white house correspondent phil mattingly joins us now with details. phil, how did the event go today? >> reporter: anderson, the biggest question going into the event was whether brady was going to show up at all. white house officials i talked to yesterday didn't seem to have a good sense of things. wasn't actually confirmed until people started tweeting pictures of brady at the white house on social media. and white house officials definitely had no idea what brady was going to say particularly this. take a listen. >> not a lot of people, you know, think that we could have won. and in fact i think about 40% of people still don't think we won. you understand that, mr. president. >> i understand that. >> we had a game in chicago where i forgot what down it was. i lost track of one down in 21 years of playing, and they started calling me sleepy tom. why would they do that to me? >> that, i think, anderson, was not subtle at all.
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it's worth noting obviously brady skipped the 2017 visit to the white house citing personal family members that several of his teammates boycotted. but he hadn't actually been to the white house, anderson, since the george w. bush administration. obviously showing up today and making a few jokes along the way. >> i mean tom brady at least was known supposedly as a friend to former president. at one point at least he had a magga hat in his locker. i don't know if that meant anything. did it seem like it was all in good fun at the white house today? >> reporter: i think if nothing else what you're struck by in this event besides brady's comedium ability is how normal it was. any events had been canceled up to this point. several teams boycotted, others the president didn't invite at all because he was in a tiff with those individuals. this is what you used to see, a president harkening back to his football days as a football player and a couple joys.
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it was normal and i think for the most part based on every wherein i talked to, it was in good fun. up next what president biden said today to mark the six-month anniversary of his taking office and what's on his to-do list he says. ♪ ♪ (sounds of car doors closing) (crash sound & tires squealing) (phone chimes) this is onstar. we've detected a crash from your phone. is anyone injured? i don't think so. good. help is on the way. is there anyone i can call for you? my dad. okay, i'm calling him now.
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president biden presided over his second official cabinet meeting held for the first time in the actual cabinet room as a symbol to return to normalcy. but as he marked his 125th day as pres-- his six-month day of presidency, he says we are delivering on our promises. >> we have to move and the people want action.
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>> reporter: alyssa reese is sizing up president biden's first six months in office. >> certainly voting rights have to get done, criminal justice, the george floyd bill has to get moving. >> reporter: here in cincinnati, some early promises from the biden administration like economic relief from the pandemic have been delivered. and other pledges like improving infrastructure are teetering. >> if we keep the theme of delivering for the american people, i think we'll be okay. but if we get back to the old days of washington, bickering back and forth while the american people watch it and say, hey, they're totally disconnected from us, then we'll be going backwards. >> that sentiment from reese, vice president of the board of county commissioners, sums up the challenges facing biden as he tries to make a bipartisan infrastructure bill. one of the failures of the infrastructure has been right here, the bridge which crosses the ohio river on one of the
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busiest trucking routes in the country. if the infrastructure bill does not go through, how much of a disappointment will that be? >> i think it will be a big disappointment because we heard over and over that infrastructure is important. >> reporter: six months after taking office, biden has entered the long, hard days of summer. >> there's so much more to be done and so much more to do. >> reporter: critics suggestive of whether he's rise or fall amid covid challenges and policy demands. they are so far happy with their president. >> i feel like he has more strategic direction, less shooting from the hip. >> biden points to his character in kindness as a welcome respite. >> i think he has justice and equality for our people.
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so far he's doing really good. >> reporter: but in a country deeply divided, other biden supporters want him to use the power of the oval office while he has it. >> it's a tough job. i know he has a tough job. i think there's things he can do to be more forceful. joe mallory is president of the naacp. he is waiting for the president to lem nature the sen-- elimina filibuster and police reform. >> he has a lot of room for improvement because this is the beginning part of his term, but we're still going to be pressing for more. >> reporter: now, even though the president is only at the six-month mark of his term, there is a sense of urgency in the west wing. tonight a senior white house official telling me, we know that, the president certainly knows that. the clock is ticking. that is why the pressure on the white house now so critical over these next coming summer weeks. anderson? >> jeff zeleny, appreciate it.
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thanks very much. president biden joins don lemon for an exclusive presidential town hall live tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. eastern. we'll be right back. removes germs in seconds, moisturizes for hours. soft, smooth. new dove handwash. we're carvana, the company who invented car vending machines and buying a car 100% online. now we've created a brand-new way for you to sell your car. whether it's a year old or a few years old. we wanna buy your car. so go to carvana and enter your license plate answer a few questions. and our techno wizardry calculates your car's value and gives you a real offer in seconds. when you're ready, we'll come to you, pay you on the spot and pick up your car, that's it. so ditch the old way of selling your car, and say hello to the new way at carvana. it's a thirteen-hour flight, that's not a weekend trip. fifteen minutes until we board. oh yeah, we gotta take off. you downloaded the td ameritrade mobile app so you can quickly check the markets? yeah, actually i'm taking one last look at my dashboard
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the news continues. i'm going to turn things back over to don who is in ohio tonight with the presidential town hall and president biden. don? this is "don lemon tonight." welcome, everyone. i am here broadcasting live to you from beautiful cincinnati. that's where tomorrow i'm going to be moderating cnn's town hall with the president of the united states, joe biden. coming to you from the iconic union terminal train station. isn't it beautiful? it's an art deck oo masterpiece that in its 8 0-year history ha hosted presidents, vice presidents like president biden during the campaign. six months after takin