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tv   Cuomo Prime Time  CNN  July 15, 2021 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT

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the younger astronaut was initially supposed to go on the next mission. but the person who paid for this spot to the tune of $28 million decided to take a later flight, citing what we're told are scheduling conflicts. the news continues right now. let's hand it over to chris. for "cuomo prime time." chris? >> all right, coop, appreciate you. i am chris cuomo. welcome to "prime time." i have a question. i don't care if you're left or right. be reasonable on this for a second. okay? here it is. if you were told that a president's words and actions worried people around him, that they were saying that he had lost it, and that he had top military brass planning for how to block a coup by that president, would your first move after learning this be to go to that same guy and kiss his butt? today that's what kevin mccarthy did. back on bended knee after all the headlines.
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with the disgraced leader of his party, meeting with trump at the bedminster club. mccarthy says, "i enjoyed meeting with president trump today. we had a productive conversation." listen to this part. "we had a constructive conversation, productive conversation, regarding house republicans' record fund-raising, upcoming congressional special elections and the latest work being carried out to target vulnerable democrats." okay? here's why i said it slowly. the question isn't over yet about what you would do. and whether what mccarthy is doing sounds sensible. where i grew up, someone who was acting in the ways that mccarthy has, we would call them scrambled eggs. because it seemed like their brains had been all mixed up. mccarthy would be said to be scrambled eggs. here's the case. exhibit a. he shouts at trump on january
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6th to call off his dogs. a week later, he says this. >> the president bears responsibility for wednesday's attack on congress by mob rioters. >> he had responsibility. then he gets pressed to hold trump to account and he suggests trump did the right thing. scrambled eggs. today, we get exhibit b. he and the other trumpers raise money on the election fraud farce. and other issues of white fright. but fraud farce for sure. mccarthy then says this. >> joe biden is the president of the united states. he legitimately got elected. >> scrambled eggs. you're raising money saying fraud farce. you don't shut any of those people down when they say it. then you say that? that was 48 hours ago. after rejecting the steal, as he
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just did. you just heard it. he steals away to visit the originator of the election fraud farce. to celebrate, now remember, to celebrate the fundraising with trump that is based on the farce that he just debunked by saying biden won legitimately. scrambled eggs. then he leaves trump and comes back to have dinner with the guy that trump says doesn't belong in the white house. president biden. this is why people don't respect politics and why trump was seen as okay by so many. because they have no basis of respect for a standard. there is no honor. there is no principle other than power for the sake of exploiting
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the same. mccarthy, these moments are proof of a problem. and look. he's not the only one on the menu as scrambled eggs. democrats asking him to pick five trumpers for the january 6th panel? that makes as much sense as how trump responded to the coup concerns. this is what he says. "so ridiculous. an election is my form of coup. and if i was going to do a coup, one of the last people i would want to do it with is general mark milley." first of all, this part. an election is the opposite of a coup. not a form of one. and if i was going to do a coup? does that sound like something a former president of the united states would say? it's become a viral punch line once again like o.j.'s "if i did it." he did just admit this, after all. >> i got impeached twice.
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i didn't change. i became worse. i became worse. >> how have we gotten to the point in this country where conservatives, people my entire life i've met and engaged with, married into, were about principle, were about integrity, you've got to do things right, character counts. all the stuff about clinton back then. you applaud when a guy tells you he got worse after he got impeached and you know that contextually he is talking about the kind of talk and inciting rhetoric that led to the infamy of january 6th and you applaud as conservatives? all ten living former defense secretaries, all ten warned against a military coup in an open letter three days before the capitol attack. why does that not resonate with conservatives?
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now, arguably the most scrambled eggs thing about all of this is that none of it seems to affect support for this man from anyone in what was the gop. why and what does it mean? let's turn to the better minds. david gregory and michael smerconish. once and for all, david, can we call the former president the teflon don? it does not matter. what is proven, let alone said about him, it does not shake not just the base but the party electeds. >> yeah, it doesn't shake him. i think that trump still exists in a space of kind of crude perverse political theater, which he exploited. he exploited -- when you were saying a minute ago that there's no standard, there's no honor. there's no trust in politicians or institutions of politics or institutions of government. and he exploited all of that.
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he continues to do so. and the modern republican power structure right now led by the likes of mccarthy, they're dancing around. there's no integrity there. there's no grand strategy. they're just trying to placate trump because he's a money raiser, he's a guy who can still make a lot of noise and a lot of trouble for him. they want to figure out how to find that line because they're not sure whether he's coming back or not because nobody really knows that. but he's still around enough to have an influence over what they care about, which is raising money and trying to get republicans elected to the house. that's all kevin mccarthy's thinking about right now. because he's dealing kind of day to day. he's not really thinking strategically. >> mike, that's the missing piece, right? when people say to you and me, why do you keep talking about trump all the time? he's gone. no, he isn't. he's the center of the focus of that party. and if he doesn't run again, we know damn sure whoever does run again is going to have to get his blessing if they want to
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have a chance. >> if he remains healthy, if he remains solvent, if he remains unindicted, and if he wants to be the nominee, he will be the nominee. now, those are three big ifs. but he has a clear path. and if you ask yourself, chris, well, what changed between when kevin mccarthy said donald trump bears responsibility for the events of january 6th and then today he makes the trip to bedminster, it's that trump's numbers with republicans didn't crater. and i think that many republicans expected that would be the case after the 6th but it wasn't and therefore they figure they've got to hang with him. one other thought. when you framed the issue at the outset of the program and you said if the highest military officer told you he was worried about a coup would you still go kiss the ring, there was one additional fact that you should have said maybe, which was oh, and you want to be the speaker of the house. and all you need to do is pick up a couple of seats.
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and history is on your side that you will pick up a couple of seats. that's what really explains him driving up the garden state parkway today. >> power for the sake of exploiting the same. that's what mccarthy's about. >> sure. >> and look, i'm not blaming him for doing it. i'm using it as a rex of the perversity that has become our politics. that is the game. he's playing the right game. now, why does this matter? because the road map of scrambled eggs, david, that i was laying out for people, it is about the embrace of misinformation. he's to blame, he did everything okay. there's a fraud farce, biden is completely elected. they're all over the place with information. and misinformation is okay. we're now hearing that the white house wants to take it on with respect to the pandemic. what does it mean that right after the white house called on social media platforms to combat the spread of misinformation as i just mentioned mccarthy and others attacked the approach when they're the ones attacking
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social media at the same time for their own purposes? what do you make of that? >> look, it's dangerous because there's an effort around january 6th to somehow categorize it as something other than it was, which was an attack on our government, an attack on our law enforcement, an attack on our democratic process. it's plain and simple what it was. and you know, leaders like mccarthy want to just say well, yeah, i said what i said, now let's all just kind of move on from that and get on to the next battle because who really remembers anything anyway. but this business of misinformation is what makes government weaker. it makes all institutions weaker. media, business. if you're in a contest, it's what hannah arendt talked about in "the rise of totalitarianism." if there's no longer agreement on what truth is and what facts are, then you've got real
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problems holding people together. this is the cynical game. the thing about january 6th is look at all these accounts. you framed this originally because he went up there to talk about the midterms and fund-raising and the january 6th commission. there are a lot of people talking around trump. they want to talk. and a lot of it is to save their own skin obviously and their own legacies. think of lindsey graham, who's always appearing in these books by the way as the voice of reason. just remember that. he always wants to be quoted saying how he tried to talk the president back from the cliff. but people are talking about what really happened and how incredibly worried they were and how unstable trump was. that's happening. and kevin mccarthy can't stop that. >> lindsey graham is not going to be remembered in history as somebody who was doing the right thing during this period. i will make my bones on that bet. and i'm not a betting man. michael, the bigger point is
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they're banking on misinformation. it's probably the most dangerous tool in the political toolbox. even in their statement, "the biden administration just announced they're working with facebook to censor more americans. big tech and the government want the same thing, to control you. as a reminder, america is a land of freedom." they don't even mention that this is only within the context of things that are demonstrably false and said to be deceptive. they don't even mention that part, michael. why? >> well, you would think that the truth will all come out eventually when the january 6th commission, whatever it may look like, is completed in their task. but when i step back and look at all the events you're describing, what i see is a day when the second installment of the leonnig-rucker book came out and it focuses on what happened on the afternoon of january 6th and as many of us suspected according to this account the
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president was simply watching it on a flat-screen while rome was burning and refusing to lift a finger. and on the same day that that account comes out you have kevin mccarthy essentially who will select a portion of the jury if you want to look at the january 6th commission that way meeting with the chief actor. that's the part of this is that is most troublesome. i don't know if you accept the fact, chris, that they didn't discuss the events of january 6th nor the commission. i find that hard to believe. but even if they didn't mccarthy was in his company. now comes back to washington and selects, what, five members of that commission who are supposed to go in and be impartial and call the shots? how can that be the case? >> it can't be. and the democrats once again are showing their weakness. they asked for a bipartisan commission. they gave them what they wanted. by all accounts the republicans can't come up with anything that they wanted except to investigate black lives matter, that they weren't offered as a function of this. they didn't want it to be bipartisan because they want to
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reject it. for the democrats to allow them to have people on there who will only be obstructionist, who have no interest in the truth and we'll know that by whom they pick and what they said about this before because nobody's been quiet over there, makes no sense. it is scrambled eggs. david gregory, got to jump. michael smerconish, as always a pleasure and thank you. heed the warning from our surgeon general today. misinformation that we were just talking about is an urgent threat to our nation's health. it's certainly hindering the covid fight. how many people do you know who aren't taking the vaccine because they heard fill in the blank? there are little micro receptors in there. it's about calling the population. it gives everybody autism. nobody really needs it. it's just to make trump look bad. how many people have said that to you? it's all b.s. and it's going to take more than a pop star visiting the white house to get americans to think any differently than they do now. so let's talk solutions and
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there is a lot of empirical evidence that you don't really care about what's happening with the pandemic anymore. i refuse to accept it. it matters too much. you have to care. 200 americans are still dying every day from covid. that's not that many. look, the point is why? why do we have to have 200 people dying every day when most of them, almost all of them are unvaccinated? you think that's a coincidence? we have the doses. it's available. everyone from the surgeon general to the american academy of pediatrics says the conspiracy theories and misinformation that's being
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pumped up mostly by the right is killing people. my next guest knows the struggle of getting through the noise from inside trump world. he was trump's federal coronavirus testing czar. admiral brett giroir. welcome to "prime time" and thank you for taking the opportunity. >> thanks for having me. >> first let's do this empirically. is there a problem with misinformation when it comes to the vaccine? let's look at the data. two polls. one, in terms of the gap in vaccination rate. the cue to the control room is p-2. counties that voted for biden versus counties that voted for trump as obvious metrics of partisan preference. you see the rate of increase in gap between those who are vaccinated. next, if we look at it in terms of ethnic identity versus partisan identity, blacks, hispanics, republicans.
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65% blacks. 70% hispanics. only 54% republicans. now wet get to you. which is do you believe that misinformation that plays to poison partisanship is part of the problem with why people aren't getting vaccinated, sir? >> so thanks, chris. and let me say, first of all, that as a pediatric icu physician and as a member of the trump administration for three years the covid vaccines authorized in this country are highly effective. they are saving tens of thousands of lives. and there is no such thing as a risk-free vaccine. but the side effects are very, very minor compared to the roller benefit. i recommend this for all people who they're authorized for. now to get to your point, yes, there's misinformation. there's been misinformation that we have fought all the time with measles vaccines, hpv vaccines and of course there is misinformation on covid vaccines.
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and i appreciate the opportunity to dispel as many of those myths as i possibly can within the few minutes we have together. >> well, first of all, this isn't the only time we can talk about it. you're invited here on an ongoing basis. unfortunately, i don't think this problem is going away anytime soon. i hope you and i never have to talk about this again and we can talk about something else. i don't think it will be the case. in terms of what you've dealt with in the past or we have dealt with in the past versus now, i present you with this piece of data that i don't think we've ever had with the measles or any other kind of immunization. watch this. >> what if we start testing more and as a result of more testing we find more positives? is that a good thing or a bad thing? >> testing, testing, testing, a common refrain from the left. but that's not necessarily the best way out of this, is it? >> we don't need the costly complicated technocratic nightmare of testing. >> now, we know that was a mistake. you had to fight it from the inside. now we have the same things with vaccines. political players on the right
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are saying you don't need it, it may be in violation of nature, it may make you die. what do you say about those kinds of statements and the people saying them? >> well, i don't make value judgments about the people but i can say the statements are absolutely wrong. we know the vaccines are highly effective and they are very safe. and i do believe, chris, the solution -- i'm a justice brandeis fan. is more speech and not to necessarily quiet the misinformation but to overwhelm it with the positive information. and we need to do that in a bipartisan way. and people like me, i would argue the surgeon general, the former surgeon general, jerome adams, together with the current surgeon general all need to get together to provide that because the information is overwhelming that vaccines are safe and effective. it is a political issue. but as you pointed out, really it is still an issue of african-americans being horribly
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underrepresented in those who are vaccinated. at least 30% or 40% less. and also looking at the new cdc data, people in areas of high social vulnerability. so we still have a equity issue that i believe is independent of politics. we've got to do both. >> you are not a politician. but i want your take on this. >> no. >> how powerful do you think it would be if president biden would reach out to former president trump and say these are predominantly your people and you were the one who brought us operation warp speed and this vaccine in record time. please join me and tell people to take the vaccine. let's do it. 24 hours of coverage in a day. let's have it all over the country. and let's have some rally for how many people you can get to take the vaccine in the next three weeks. do you think that that would be powerful medicine for people who are of the trump persuasion?
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>> i think for people of the trump persuasion, yes, i do believe that former president trump has enormous influence over people who support him. vice president pence, you know, as well. and i think that everything that we can do from both administrations together to support it will or potentially could make a difference. and really with the delta variant and new variants vaccination becomes more and more important. but i will say again, chris, you know, the low vaccination rates in detroit, the low vaccination rates among african-americans, these are generally not trump people. so i don't want to simplify this into just a political issue of red versus blue. it is a complex issue and we have to reach the vulnerable and the ethnic minorities because those are the ones that are actually suffering the most. we have to do all of the above. >> well, it is complicated. i think it's worth discussing a little bit. when you look at a color or ethnic disparity, you basically have a two-prong.
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right? one is a history of misgivings, of having been duped about vaccinations and having misgivings about institutions, that they don't believe in government reaching out to help them that often, whether it's fair or not. and second, access. which they don't control. even if they want it, as you mentioned earlier, we have an inequity going on in terms of who's getting the supply. so it's very different than people who are just choosing not to take it because they think it's a thumb to the nose to the democrats. >> no, your point is there. i think everyone has access because of the delivery of vaccines and pharmacies. and we know that pharmacies are even in very high social vulnerability index areas. but your point is right. and we do need more information. you know, i'm very concerned. i think people who support trump and conservative republicans,
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remember, this was developed under the trump administration. operation warp speed was a tremendous success. >> would not have happened without you. would never have happened. i know the story from the inside. >> and the biden administration has taken the baton and done a really good job in distributing and accelerating and getting it globally. so this is a bipartisan win. don't make it a political game because thousands of of lives are at stake, particularly with the variants, which are much more contagious. and i believe the data are beginning to show that natural immunity, although it's good against the basic strains, are not so good against delta. so people who were infected, i believe, are going to be highly likely susceptible to delta and new variants. so this could be a wheel that starts turning all over again. trust me, we don't want to be there again. we have the capability to stomp this out. every person in this country should feel blessed to have these types of vaccines and the
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access that's been provided by both administrations. and i would urge everyone for whom the vaccine is authorized to please take it for your sake and the sake of your family. >> quickly, i don't know how accurate the numbers are because of the nature of the reporting system in place. but when you look at florida and you start to hear about the cases coming up again and you have the governor there selling propaganda that says "don't fauci florida," it's an obvious anti-vaccine play and you know the numbers there aren't what they could be, do you believe that's something to keep an eye on in terms of how politics and misinformation and messaging can make a difference, that can make us sick? >> yelah, i don't -- i really don't know about the specifics of what governor desantis is saying. but clearly, when you have urban areas, we've had -- we've had several outbreaks in florida that has required massive testing and support by the federal government as well as in south texas and many other major cities.
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you know, messaging is important. and our leaders' messaging is very important. so again, not knowing the specifics, i would offer myself, i'm sure the former surgeon general jerome adams, and so many of the docs in the trump administration who worked so passionately to make this day happen want to see it fulfilled to its entire fruition, to get everyone vaccinated so we can kill this pandemic once and for all. >> it's hard to see how "don't fauci florida" could be anything other than a negation of anything to do with the vaccine. and that's what desantis is peddling down in florida. but admiral brett giroir, you're not a politician. i want to talk to you about best practices. and i appreciate you doing so. the misinformation is a problem. and hopefully we can get on top of it. thank you, sir. >> thank you, sir. >> all right. now, again, i do see it as political. why? because it's a lot of politicians who are doing it. and one of the biggest misinformation spreaders is a
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politician and he has struck again. it is senator ron johnson of wisconsin. again. the guy's a metaphor for how the game can disease somebody. i remember when he came in. he was a businessman who said i don't know anything about politics, i don't want to play those games. now that's all he does. fear-mongering. about the border and now let's take it apart. i want some premium ideas for land o' frost premium sliced meats. land o' frost premium... so much goodness it'll make you cry! very nice, very nice. land o'frost premium. fresh look. same great taste. oh!
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i just don't see any other way to say it other than the party of trump is banking on b.s. republican leadership doesn't care about the threat of toxic talk. here's the case in point. their silence on this. >> wouldn't you say a 15, 16, 17-year-old immigrant male would certainly fit the profile of somebody who might be in a gang or be recruited by a gang or be used by the drug traffickers to traffic their drugs, right? isn't that what's the reality of the situation is, with this flood? we are letting in people that are potentially gang members. we are letting in people that are going to be trafficking drugs. or human trafficking. isn't that your experience as houston's sheriff? >> i'm always mindful of not profiling and developing any stereotypes in my work. so i try to look at the facts -- >> that's not profiling. >> it's by definition profiling.
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taking what someone looks like and putting them into a category of criminality because of how they look. that's profiling. facts. immigrants who are undocumented are much less likely to commit a crime. why? because they're scared of getting detected by the system and thrown out. the average age of a drug trafficker is 37. the vast majority of them are u.s. citizens. by now we're past fact checking what comes out of ron johnson's mouth because so much of it constitutes a domestic threat. you know what those other 49 republican senators swore to defend against? that. you want proof? just name the danger. according to dhs under trump, there were spikes in domestic threats driven by people stoking fears about immigration.
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in other words, what johnson just did. more than 200 americans are dying a day because they haven't gotten the vaccine. yet johnson is one of the biggest pushers of the very vaccine conspiracies that are killing us. listen. >> we are over 3,000 deaths after -- within 30 days of taking the vaccine. >> find somebody from the trump administration or from the biden administration who will tell you that the vaccine is what's killing people. as for the actual terror attack we all witnessed on the capitol, five dead, more than 100 police officers injured, maimed, here's johnson again. >> those are people that love this country, that truly respect law enforcement. >> is that why they beat the hell out of them? ron johnson has shown you time and again exactly who he is.
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or more importantly, who he's become. again, i remember the guy when he first came in. just a businessman, i want to make some deals. let me show you some charts about how these different policies can affect us. i don't want to play these politics games. now he's the worst. it's only the people in his own caucus that i really worry about, not him, because they won't say anything about him. say, for example, the ongoing efforts to tear down the fabric of our elections. >> we have tens of millions of people that do not view this election result as legitimate. >> they don't view it as legitimate because you keep saying it's illegitimate. even when it comes to the climate crisis, which dhs called a, quote, multilevel threat to the american people. here's your boy johnson. >> i think climate change is as -- >> a hoax. >> by the way, it is.
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>> by the way, it just said that he wasn't a climate denier. the wisconsin senator hasn't said if he's running for re-election next year, but the question for republican leadership is why would you want him? why don't you make that reach-out to people who are center-right and reasonable and stand against all of the b.s. coming out of his mouth? that's not what being a republican is about. let's go to break. when we come back, to another johnson. very different. former homeland security secretary. this one has his facts straight. secretary jeh johnson. how close was the democracy to a real problem? what do we learn from what we've heard about this new book? next. i'm not hungry! you're having one more bite! no! one more bite! ♪ kraft. for the win win. we were alone when my husband had the heart attack.
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this new book on general milley's fears about president trump should frighten you. it doesn't take a soldier to know joint chief don't scare easily. so just how close did we come to the edge of darkness and our democracy? what does it really mean? we have a great guest who knows this world well.
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as well as general milley. former homeland security secretary jeh johnson. welcome back to "prime time." it's good to see you, mr. secretary. >> chris, thanks for having me. look forward to our discussion. >> so what was your take on what has come out in this book? >> i can't say i'm surprised. if one assumes that what has come out in the recent spate of these books is accurate, then ironically president trump may have selected in general milley unwittingly the right man for the moment, someone who was prepared to stand up to his commander in chief to say mr. president, what you've ordered me to do is patently illegal. if he had in fact ordered some sort of coup or revolt by the military. so i can't say i'm surprised.
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it is well known that president trump was fixated with figuring out a way to try to stay in office, even after he had lost the electoral college vote. so i can't say i'm surprised. i also have to say never in my lifetime would i have imagined that we would have found ourselves in the situation we found ourselves in in december and january of this year. our democracy was put under a stress test. it survived. but it was put under a severe stress test. >> was it surprising to you or does it continue to be surprising to you that people around then president trump saw the same things that milley did, expressed some of the same concerns as we're now learning in books, but said nothing during their time in the administration? >> well, that's because a lot of the people around donald trump in the waning days of his
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administration were actings. remember, chris, in the last few days of the trump administration we had an acting secretary of defense, an acting secretary of of homeland security, an acting attorney general. and apparently, it took someone like general milley, the chairman of the joint chiefs, to remind all the rest of us what the constitution means and what it stands for and what the oath to support and defend the constitution means. and so the military is one of the most respected institutions in our nation. and one of the reasons for that is part of -- the core, the fabric of military training are the basics of our constitution and what a commander in chief has the power to do and what a commander in chief does not have the power to do. >> you say that you never would have imagined where we found
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ourselves in december and january. what about where we find ourselves now and this concern from your former agency that this reinstatement talk, these misinformation campaigns that all kind of blend together, whether it's the fraud farce or the vaccination, that it's creating an animus and a rejection of the institution of government that could cause violence? how real do you think that threat is? >> chris, we live in a world where large slices of republicans believe the election was stolen. there was a survey that came out in the last couple of weeks that a full 15% of americans, not 15% of republicans, 15% of americans ascribe to the qanon theory. and what my old agency is telling us along with the old intelligence community, the law enforcement community, is that the pot is boiling.
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it boiled over on january 6th. but the pot is still boiling. there's no reason to believe that it all dissipated after january 6th. the environment, the underlying environment is still there. and so homeland security officials, law enforcement in this country need to continue to be vigilant and on the watch for another flash point. >> secretary jeh johnson, always appreciate your perspective. it's always a gift to the audience. and thank you. >> thanks, chris. >> be well. there's an historic push in the senate now to legalize marijuana at the federal level. why? a lot of reasons. but not the least of which is you have this big disconnect. all these states are making it legal but federally it's illegal. so every time you travel with it from one place to another you have a problem. it's a disconnect. so how do we feel about it? the wizard of odds will take a look at the numbers and see which way we're headed on weed.
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question. how high are the chances that left and right can come together on cannabis? the bill that the democrats want would decriminalize smoking, and personal use. and also, expunge nonviolent-federal convictions for pot-related offenses. go nowhere. why? republicans are threatening to fight it. what are the odds that their own
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voters push them to loosen up on weed? good question for the wizard of odds. harry enten. good to see you. public perception on whether or not marijuana should be a scheduled-controlled substance. >> i mean, look. the fact of the matter is, the only, other issue, in which i have seen the public move so fast over the last 20 years, is same-sex marriage. look at this. back in 2000, what we saw was just 31% of americans thought that recreational marijuana should be legalized. look at that. in 2021, 60%, now. this is a doubling of support. so it went from 31%, back when you were in your 30s. to, now, i'm in my low 30s and we're now at 60%. unbelievable moment. >> let's play with demographic. so we go from the what to the old? young? black? white? >> it's one thing to be in a poll. it is another thing to look at actual-election results and what we see here is something unbelievable. what we see is that it is -- look at this -- new jersey, 67%
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ballot measure last year. arizona, purple state, 60%. montana, red state, 57%. south dakota, a really red state, 54%. and that is sort of translated, when you look at the different demographics in the polling. what you see, it's pretty much popular, across all of them. yes, it is more popular, say, among democrats than it is among republicans. but even republicans, 47%, age 65 to 74, senior citizens, 53%. really, the only group who it is not popular among is age 75 plus. just 32 # %. interestingly enough, there are a lot of senators in that d demographic and also the president of the united states. >> how does the decriminalizing aspect of this play? >> look. i think that it's something that is popular. um, but i also think that part of what's going on in this situation -- i'm being honest with you, christopher. and why, you know, democrats are pushing it and why they want this idea, essentially, of they -- they want a lot of different things in the bill is
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if you look among their own voters. african-americans. what do we see? they are the ones who are most penalized by marijuana being illegal, because they are the ones who, look at this, the percentage of age 12 plus who use marijuana, blacks and whites, equal. but marijuana possession arrests per 100,000. look at that. blacks are more than three times -- more than three and a half-times more likely to be arrested than white folks and this is something i think a lot of democrats are interested in. a lot of democrats want to get back to their base and they want to recognize that black people have been treated unfairly, disproportionately, by the law. >> now, how does this upside down nature of having, like, a handful of states control 50% of the u.s. senate. so they're only really worried, on the right, about a small slice of right america. how do we see their disposition on the right in the senate going into this debate? >> here's the -- the strange thing, to me, is that this was about the public. then, marijuana would be legalized, nationally.
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this is not about the public. even in the small states, right? we saw in south dakota, you know, a very small state in the plains. 54% of voters approve legalizing marijuana. it's republican senators, bhopt who want to stop this. maybe, they have some different reasons, right? the bill is sort of complicated but on the general issue, i don't think this is about the voters. i think this is about senators who are disconnected from the voters. >> some kind of vestige of a culture war. it's just ironic, right? because they have moved so off the character counts, integrity, and all those values and now this is a little bit of a vestige of that. we will see if it goes up in smoke. >> ooh, very nice. >> we'll be right with the handoff, after this. s, little things can become your big moment. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea or vomiting.
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