tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN June 20, 2021 10:00am-11:00am PDT
home to this show an important exclusive. as western forces leave afghanistan, there's growing concern about what will happen as the taliban gains influence in tha t country. you've heard about the biden meeting from americans. >> i told president putin, we need to have basic rules of the road that we can all abide by. >> what did it look like to russians? i'll ask andrey kortunov, the head of the russian international affairs council. who has been chosen to
replace the iran president? and what will it meet for nuclear arrangements in the mideast? but first, here's my take. >> america is back at the table. >> america is back. >> the united states is back. >> this was the refrain that joe biden kept repeating on his first trip abroad as president. it's a fair description of what he accomplished, a restoration of america's role that can set the global agenda, gain cooperation and deter maligned behavior. so the global union is back. but is america? that's the question. biden came in with two specific achievements under his belt. he ramped up the jean so fast that america is the first to end a post-pandemic war. second, he made sure the economy had a roaring recovery. donald trump presided over a
booming economy before the pandemic, but polls showed most leaders didn't respect him under his leadership. biden focused on the issues in which allies agreed. combatting climate change, strengthening ties between countries, stepping up to the challenge from china. it was a far cry from the behavior of president trump who reveled in denigrating the summit and its members. russia is not a superpower. its economy doesn't even crack
the top ten and is in decline on many key measures. but the country spanning 11 time zones has one of the world's largest arsenals of nuclear weapons, a robust military and a u.n. vitro. trump has played the role of spoiler on the international stage and engaging in cyberattacks on a massive scale and pursuing an assassinating dissidence even if they live abroad. biden handled the meeting with his russian counterpart with professionalism and skill, prompting vladimir putin to call president biden a balanced and influential man. despite trump's fawning behavior toward putin, putin might recognize it's better to have a rational president than a
showman. washington's goal toward russia should not be ceaseless hostility, but rather some kind of stable relationship in which many problems can be discussed, negotiated and managed. the biggest news out of the biden/putin meeting involves cyberspace. the problem of cyberspace, cyberattacks and ransomware has grown exponentially. yet the government has not done much about it. when there was a cyberattack on sony pictures in 2015 to sabotage them for punishment, they did little. biden for the first time is signaling that it would be willing to use its cyber
capabilities to retaliate against a russian attack. biden gave him six categories that should be off limits, including crippling oil pipelines and began discussing these issues to define some rules of the road. this is a policy shift that is likely to last. it was a trip with modest but realistic goals, most of which were achieved. america is perceived once more as a constructive force in the world with an astonishing rebound in its approval ratings across the globe. but the story is not entirely positive. one aspect of american power remains astonishingly diminished, its role in democracy. 67% said the u.s. is no longer
the role model of democracy that it used to be. young people worldwide is even more skeptical about america's democratic institutions. in one key way, things look worse now than in previous periods of crisis. after watergate, many in america were surprised that the world still looked up to the united states for facing and fixing its democratic failures. it was a sign of america's capacity to course correct. but imagine if, after that scandal, the republican party, instead of condemning nixon as it did, had embraced him, slavishly insisting he did nothing wrong, settling into denial and constructionism, even promoting laws for nixon's
egregious conduct. imagine if the only people who were purged by the party were those who criticized nixon. the decay of american democracy is real. this is not a messaging problem or an image problem. until we can repair that reality, i'm not sure we can truly say america is back. go to cnn.com/fareed for an article in "washington post" this week. let's get started. let's keep going on president biden's trip abroad and talk about how moscow viewed his summit with putin. joining me now is andrey kortunov. he is the director of russian international affairs council. give us a sense of the backdrop. what was the russians' view, what do you think putin's view was of donald trump's presidency as it related to u.s. relations? >> i think putin considered donald trump to be a weak president in the sense that donald trump failed to deliver. he made certain commitments to
putin, to russia, probably he had very good intentions, but at the end of the day, the relationship between the two countries got even worse during the years in power. i think in the u.s./russia relations, affinity might be important, but respect is more important than affinity. all strong u.s. leaders can fix relationships with moscow to the extent relationships can be fixed under these current, quite challenging circumstances. i think probably there are expectations that joe biden will turn out to be stronger than his predecessor, and the u.s. attitude will be more professional, more consistent and the relationship will become more predictable. of course, this relationship is going to be primarily adversarial. >> you mentioned the way in which putin characterized biden, professional and things like that. were you surprised by how positive putin seemed about biden? >> many here were surprised by the fact that we had an early meeting in geneva, because it took more than a year and a half for donald trump to have a
meeting with putin, so no, that was a surprise. i think another surprise of the biden was very fast to restart the agreement. with biden in power, there is no sense that we will go down the drain and lose lines of communication we were able to preserve under trump. it turned out differently. biden, as we can see today, is not willing to start a crusade against russia and is not willing to push russia into the corner. definitely this is positive news, though, again, let me underscore that the relationship is not likely to involve any reset any time soon. >> part of it, there is no talk of reset on either side. both sides are being realistic .
let me ask you about the most thorny issue, which is the cyberattacks. russia is engaging in massive cyberattacks. russia is denying it. might there be progress on this which would end up being the central issue? >> i think it's a very complicated issue, and probably it is one of the issues that should be sliced into smaller parts in order to handle it. i do recall that in 2017 when putin met donald trump for the first time in hamburg, they also discussed an option of putin getting a joint task force to explore opportunities to set some rules for the cyber domain. however, when trump got back to
washington, he basically decided not to do that. so it's an open question whether biden is ready to go ahead with this initial idea. but if he does, i think if this is an issue which will be considered by experts on both sides, maybe we can at least narrow the gap in perceptions between russia and the united states on cyber. >> on the whole, very briefly, give it a grade. how positive do you think the atmosphere -- how much has been changed by this summit? >> overall, i would give it a
b-plus. i think there are things that remain unclear but it bent better than anticipated. >> andrey, always glad to get your perspective. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. iran voted on friday and they have a new president-elect. who is ebrahim raisi? all of that when we come back. super emma just about sleeps in her cape. but when we realized she was battling sensitive skin, we switched to tide hygienic clean free. it's gentle on her skin, and out cleans our old free detergent. tide hygienic clean free. hypoallergenic and safe for sensitive skin.
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not one major reformist or a centrist, were allowed to the ballot by the council. the winner is ebrahim raisi. he is known to be close to the leader and they are already under sanctions. what does this mean for iran, for arabians, for the nuclear deal? robin wright writes for "the new yorker" and is a fellow at the woodrow center. vali nasr specializes in the middle east and islam. robin, let me ask you to set the scene. what was this election about and why was the guardian council so selective? they always winnow down the number of candidates, but this
was extraordinary. from 600, they went to just 7. >> yes, and three of them dropped out so it was only four in the end. the stakes of this election was not just the presidency, it was really a future of the revolution. iran's supreme leader is now 82. there is a sense that election paved the way for what happens next, what happens after he dies? not just who will be the president of iran in the next four or eight years. and there is an even bigger question at stake, and that is the division of power in iran. iran is a hybrid and unique system which is divided between people who are elected who enact republican law based on european law, and those who are clerics and believe that islamic law should ultimately prevail and
decide when there are disputes. is iran, first and foremost, a republic, or is it first and foremost an islamic state? and one of the things it looks like will happen next is that the supreme leader will move to reform the system to engage in constitutional changes that may introduce a parliamentary system where you have a much weaker government with only a prime minister who has hundreds of thousands of votes from his constituency rather than a president who could stand up to the supreme leader on key political foreign policy or domestic issues on the basis of having tens of millions of votes. so this election will decide an awful lot about what happens inside iran and in its engagement with the outside world. >> and, vali, would it be fair
to say that one important backdrop here is the failure of the reformists? i sometimes think that americans think they have too much influence or they exaggerate the influence they have on the world, but in this case it seems to me that president rouhani came into office, and the big agenda was, i'm going to make peace with the west, we're going to get sanctions lifted and iran is going to grow, the middle class is going to grow, and the fact that the united states pulled out, doubled down on sanctions, put maximum pressure on iran, in donald trump's word, has essentially shattered the reformist credibility in iran. fair to say?
>> yes, fair to say. in fact, the scenario that robin was laying out of this imperative of consolidation of power under hardliners as the supreme leader moves toward managing his own succession was possible because it was a unique opportunity that the iranian public was both apathetic about the world and also about rouhani. they believe he had mismanaged covid, he mismanaged the economy, he had an elitist, aloof air about him, so it was a unique opportunity that the iranian public was not going to come to the ballot box with any kind of enthusiasm about a better time period lying ahead. and that apathy basically opened the door for that power grab. so, yes, i think it's not just reformists have failed to reform, the moderates and reformants have failed to govern and pushing iran's failure of opening was because of donald trump. that damaged iran's hope for change and was quite severe. >> robin explain who raisi is and what is your judgment of him? i was struck by the fact that during one of the presidential
debates, one of the other candidates -- and these are all hardline right wing candidates, one of them asked raisi, can you assure me that if you win, you will not jail me? that sounded a little scary. >> yes, well, the political divisions are very deep in iran, even among hardliners. and one of the most precarious jobs in iran is either running for president or being a former president. you have several children or vice presidents who are in jail. there are two former candidates who have been under house arrest for a decade. ebrahim raisi is famous because he has been, since 2019, the head of the judiciary which is the body that carries out the most draconian actions against dissidents. but he is most famous because he is associated with the so-called death commission which in the 1980s engaged in executions of thousands of political prisoners. it is one of the most notorious and troubling aspects of the early days of the revolution. and it led to even more splits, some of the earliest splits
within the system about how much control the state had and how much latitude it would give people to voice their opinions in public. and so i think this is going to be a difficult moment for president biden who has made human rights an issue of his presidency, trying to deal with iran to get that final hurdle in renewing the nuclear deal, and even more so dealing with issues after that on iran's missiles, its meddling in the middle east, its abysmal human rights record will be hard for this president. he is likely to come under criticism at home, and it will make is very hard for him to do a deal with the iranians. >> vali, we often forget in these moments about the iranian people. iran is a country with actual ordinary people. how tough is all this -- how tough does all this make life
for iranians who are already suffering one of the worst responses to covid, right? >> i think in terms of social rights, civil liberties, possibility of opening the cultural sphere in iran, this will be a huge setback. as robin said, raisi comes from the most hardline part of the political system and has a checkered past behind it. on the other hand, i think some kind of deal with the united states that can bring economic relief is not less now than it was a few months ago. that is in the hands of the supreme leader, the vienna talks are going along. the final decision would have to be made by him.
i think he's pretty much removed himself from the nuclear negotiations. this is being managed more directly by the supreme leader. also, when you listen to raisi, and i did so during the presidential debate, it's surprising how shallow and how much of a dilettante he is. he got where he is by being a yes man. he is not a statesman with a great deal of economic experience, and that suggests that he will be managed more directly by the supreme leader and his decisions will devolve towards him. i think the biden administration made the correct decision to not try to influence those elections, and now we're aiming for a mid-july date for a possible agreement, and if that comes, raisi stands to benefit from some degree of economic opening in iran, and then we'll see what the mood of the public would be at that point in time. >> we have to end it on that
note. vali, thank you so much. robin wright, you both created illumination on this topic. we'll be back with a taliban spokesman. (phones ringing, people talking, meeting) the company we've trusted to keep us working remotely, is the same company we'll trust to bring us back together. safely. securely. and responsibly. so now, between all apart and all together, there's a bridge. cisco. the bridge to possible. ♪ na na na na ♪ na na na na... ♪ hey hey hey. ♪ goodbye. ♪ na na na na... ♪ hey hey hey. ♪ goodbye. ♪ na na na na ♪ na na na na...
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xfinity internet customers, switch to xfinity mobile and get unlimited with 5g included for $30 on the nations fastest, most reliable network. starting in the mid-1990s, the taliban ruled over afghanistan. they were then toppled shortly after the u.s. invaded in the fall of 2001. the september 11 attacks, of course, were the impetus behind the u.s. invasion.
now president biden promises all u.s. troops will be out of there by this september 11. afghanistan's democratically elected government is currently held by president ashraf ghani. the taliban refuses to recognize that government. so what happens after the americans leave? will the islamist militant organization try to come roaring back? joining me now from doha is suhail shaheen, the taliban spokesman. welcome, shaheen. >> thank you.
>> let me ask you the question i posed right there, which is what happens after american troops leave, the coalition forces leave? will the taliban keep fighting to topple the kabul government? >> the issue has two dimensions or two aspects. one is the foreign. we have an association with the other side. then we signed an agreement based on the american troops and
the allied troops were withdrawing from the country, and the other aspect of the issue is the internal aspect. we are having a negotiation with all of afghan sides. we want to reach a solution which is acceptable to all afghans. that is our policy, not fighting. we want and we are insisting that we reach an acceptable solution with negotiation. >> would that include the democratically elected government? >> it is not, i think, because the afghan population is now
almost 40 million people. and 40 million people, only 1 million voted for the current administration. and that was also -- there was fraudulence and rigging in that voting. so they had delayed because they were squabbling and a row over voting. so in that sense it was not acceptable to the remaining majority population of afghanistan. we want to have a new government
to replace this administration which is acceptable to all afghan people, and that we want to reach through negotiation in peaceful talks. >> you did not allow women to go to school, to college, women were discriminated in many different ways. you now say women will be allowed to be educated, they will be allowed to work. the only restriction, you say, is they must wear the hijab. my only question, what's changed? have you arrived at a new interpretation of islam, or is it a recognition of the fact that women in afghanistan will
not agree to be discriminated against? what has changed between 2001 and now that you now say that you are in favor of women's education and participation in the work force? >> at that time it was a war situation and the policy was there. i myself, when i was deputy ambassador in islamabad, i had talked to them. we are not against the basic rights of women. that is, education and their work. only because we are an islamic society, they had to observe the islamic hijab. right now if you go to kabul city, the women are observing hijab, voluntarily by themselves because they are a different culture, afghan culture. >> you know, shaheen, many will have a problem with what you were saying. it blew up homes and businesses, why should people believe you this time?
>> first, no one on the afghan side was involved in that horrendous incident of 9/11 in new york. at that time when i was a deputy ambassador of afghanistan in islamabad, we immediately convened a press conference and we strongly condemned that incident and we showed our readiness to cooperate in an investigation of the incident. secondly, now we have an agreement while we had no agreement at that time. so based on the current agreement, we have committed ourselves that we will not allow anyone to use the soil of afghanistan. we know it is not in the interest of our people and of our country that anyone use the soil of afghanistan. >> mr. shaheen, i think that people will find what you are saying very interesting. thank you for coming on the show. >> thank you. what happens when she became the first woman editor? she has an interesting way of looking at the world of business, economy, and everything. that anthropologist turned editor joins me next. spots? it's not your dishwasher's fault. simply add finish jetdry 3in1
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serious things awry with the financial system in 2007? >> anthropology teaches you two things. we tend to ignore them because we tend to look with our brains, but how we act really shows us how we look at life. but second, anthropology tells you to look at others that seem different from you, whether that's in the next department or end of the road or the other side of the world, but also because you can flip the lens and look back at yourself. a fish can't leave water unless they jump out of their fish bowl. i used those tools to look at the tribe of bankers who were creating all the funky innovations, and using that technology, i could see how the bankers had tunnel vision, had lost sight of any sense of
context or consequences for what they were doing and how their creation myth around innovation was riddled with dangerous inconsistencies. that helped me to see that the financial crisis was coming, and frankly, i think we could use that same tool set, that mindset, to make sense of many areas of the world where there are problems developing and to look for opportunities. >> when you talk about tribal rituals and you say that it's very important that -- all of us live in tribes, and we like rituals that kind of seem familiar and comforting, and you have a very interesting point in the book where you say if somebody really wanted to understand a donald trump rally with everything that was part of it, they should have really thought about wrestling matches. >> well, this is a lesson anybody watching can use and apply in their own lives right now, which is to not just reach
out to a different world from yourself, but also think about the embodied experience. walk in someone else's shoes, experience the ritual they're engaged in. when i went to the wrestling match, i realized that trump's political style, the way he faced rallies, the way he did the name-calling, crooked hillary, little marco rubio, the melodramatic stage for show had been borrowed literally from wrestling matches. that performance separated him from a vast array of voters, but people who had never been to a wrestling match didn't even realize that because they were trapped in their own tribe, their own tunnel vision. >> kit kats in japan. why did they take off like crazy? >> kit kats are for wide cultural matters and why globalization can be a really positive thing, which people tend to forget.
kit kats chocolate bar biscuit sold all over the world as a sign of britishness. then some managers at nestle noticed they were selling well during certain periods of the year, and they realized some japanese teenagers had started using kit kats almost like a prayer tool, a so-called omamori in japan for good luck. a phrase in japan meaning "we shall overcome" sounds a lot like kit kat. they embraced this weirdness and started marketing the candy bar, and in two years half of japan became successful. it can blur, it can change, it can become a blend of different cultures, and that's, frankly,
very exciting. >> there are lots more examples in this wonderful book. gillian, thank you so much for coming and joining us. >> thank you. next on "gps," i will offer you one easy solution to the climate crisis. there is one and i will tell it to you when we come back. welcome to allstate, ♪ ♪are you down, d-d-down, d-d-down, d-d-down♪ where we're driving down the cost of insurance. ♪ ♪ are you down, down♪ ♪d-down, down? are you♪ drivers who switched saved over $700. ♪ allstate. here, better protection costs a whole lot less. you're in good hands. click or call for a lower rate today. i became a sofi member because i needed to consolidate my credit card debt. i needed just one simple way to pay it all off. it was an easy decision to apply with sofi loans,
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but if we raise the cost of carbon here, china benefits by exporting cheaper goods to america? no, because those goods would simply be subjected to the same carbon fee at the border, a green tariff. this could help american producers compete with foreign imports because u.s. products are often cleaner. a study commissioned by one advocacy group found that carbon tariffs would increase domestic
sales of u.s. steel by 9%. it won't actually be necessary because other countries will have their own carbon taxes. after all, if the choice for chinese companies to pay tax to the u.s. or domestic tax into chinese coffers, wouldn't beijing prefer the latter? virtually every economist agrees, a carbon tax std single-best strategy to begin to solve the climate crisis. instead, we are pursuing an inefficient bureaucratic piecemeal approach. let's not settle for that. there is a better way. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. dad, why didn't you answer your phone?