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tv   CNN Tonight With Don Lemon  CNN  April 30, 2021 12:00am-1:00am PDT

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breaking news on the investigation of congressman matt gaetz. "the daily beast" is reporting that the congressman's friend and wingman wrote a confession letter saying both he and the congressman paid for sex with several women and a 17-year-old girl. the congressman's spokesperson denying that tonight to cnn. we're going to have much, much more on that in just a moment. that as the president, joe biden, is marking 100 days in office on the road in georgia, promoting his multi-trillion dollar package of plans for jobs, infrastructure, and american families, calling his ambitious ideas a once-in-a-generation investment in america. tomorrow he heads to
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pennsylvania, also saying today that he does not believe the american people are racist. and rudy giuliani slamming the raid and seizure by federal officials of electronic devices from his home and office. tonight in a tv interview, claiming the warrant was illegal and denying he did anything wrong. there's lots to discuss now. cnn's senior political analyst nia-malika henderson joins me and political commentator amanda carpenter. i'm so happy to have both of you on. i got the "a" team tonight. good evening. amanda, let's start with this new daily beast reporting that congressman matt gaetz's friend wrote a confession letter saying he and the congressman paid for sex with several women including a 17-year-old girl. the letter was an attempt to get a presidential pardon from trump with the help of roger stone. i've got to say all this stuff so we can be responsible here. we have reached out to greenberg's attorney. he said no comment, siting attorney-client privilege.
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this is how matt gaetz's spokesperson responded. congressman gaetz has never paid for sex, nor has he had sex with a 17-year-old as an adult. congressman gaetz has had no role in advocating for or against a pardon for greenberg and doubts such a pardon has ever even -- was ever even considered. okay. so this is getting worse and worse. how much longer can the gop stay silent about this, amanda? >> well, i think they're going to stay quiet about it and just let justice run its course. but the element of the story that i think is particularly interesting, if true, is the fact that roger stone was apparently selling pardons after he, himself, got a commutation and a pardon. the fact that these people seem to have no reticence about their actions, and if it is true that greenberg was giving $250,000 in bitcoin to try to get that pardon, you know, there's questions for white house staffers that go far beyond
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roger stone there. >> yeah. so, listen, nia. cnn hasn't seen the letter, cannot firm the details in "the daily beast" story. but chris tonight spoke with one of the reporters, jose pagliery. take a listen to that, and then we'll talk about it, okay? >> let me tell you this letter is pretty explicit. it states very clearly that joel greenberg got paid by matt gaetz to acquire young women for sex and that they had sex with a teen. this is the first time that we are seeing it word for word explained what exactly they did. and the thing that really jumps out at me is the idea that he goes, i did see the acts occur firsthand. this is going to be pivotal for prosecutors as they go after matt gaetz. >> so, listen, don't get mad at me about this question, nia, especially with the current state of the republican party. but is there any way for gaetz to survive this politically?
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>> you know, quite possibly. he has mounted a sort of trumpian defense in saying this is all a hoax. they are trying to tear me down because of what i believe in and what i stand for and that i'm a trumper. so quite possibly. i mean he could have folks in that district who are wedded to that idea that he is under attack by the feds and they could quite simply vote him back into office if he runs for re-election next year. you know, his problem is obviously the letter, maybe some of this evidence that the feds are clearly looking at him and scrutinizing him and probably have some records to build a case around him. but, you know, it wouldn't surprise me if the republican of rank and file voters in his district put him back into office, you know. down the line, he may have to resign or something. you think about folks on the hill. they aren't big fans of matt gaetz. they are, i think as amanda
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said, basically waiting for this to play out in the justice system to see where this lands. but he doesn't have a lot of allies on the hill. i think probably marjorie taylor greene, and that's a pretty lonely club if that's your only fan. >> yeah. jim jordan as well, i think. >> jim jordan, yeah. >> nia, listen, president biden spoke to nbc news earlier and was asked about senator tim scott's comments that america isn't racist. take a listen. >> no, i don't think the american people are racist. but i think after 400 years, african-americans have been left in a position where they are so far behind the eight ball in terms of education, health, in terms of opportunity, i think the overhang from all of the jim crow and before that slavery have had a cost, and we have to deal with it. >> so, nia, listen, senator scott is trying to get something
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done with democrats on police reform. but there are a whole lot of other senators. there's only one black senator, right? there are a whole lot of other senator who's could have responded to the president's speech last night. do you think republicans putting him forward, is that proof that they're not racist? >> well, listen, there have been any number of great non-white hopes that the republican party has kind of put forward over the last many years. somebody like bobby jindal. marco rubio, who was on the cover of "time" magazine literally as the savior. and tim scott i think is the latest iteration of that. we'll see what his future is. there's been all sorts of speculation that maybe he wants to run for higher office. he, of course, gave a fulsome speech about donald trump at his nominating convention, and he is an historic figure. i thought his delivery was great. i thought he was not great in
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terms of the facts. he on the one hand said that, you know, america is not a racist country and then described racist things that happened to him. so there was that. but, listen, i think the focus is really on biden. this is an extraordinary moment in american history to have an american president talk about racism as much as he does, talk about systemic racism as much as he does. and then the idea that the federal government can move to redress some of those historic wrongs that obviously have modern-day, present-day implications. >> amanda, listen, let's talk about mitch mcconnell. you know, nia mentioned this about tim scott maybe having higher aspirations. mitch mcconnell is saying that tim scott is the future of the republican party. okay. but this is the party where members were laying out plans for a caucus on anglo-saxon traditions earlier this month. the party where some of the members defended white
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insurrectionists but said that they'd be scared if black lives matter protesters stormed the capitol. so what gives here? >> yeah. i mean this is a problem. until the gop confronts the facts of the insurrection and what led to it, it's going to be donald trump's party, right? that is the power and control that trump has over the party. and one of the weirdest parts about tim scott's response, when he painted president biden as the divider in chief and just totally ignored what happened in the insurrection. and i see a lot of what tim scott was doing in that speech was quite trumpy. when he was coming out and saying, we're not a racist country, i read that as tim scott jumping straight on into the culture war. listen, you had in that address joe biden proposing trillions of new spending, big government plans, you know, fdr-style, transformational government. and tim scott dove into the
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culture war. he had good things to talk about. it was disjointed for him to dismiss racism when he is working on the police reform bill in the senate. there is a reason why there's so much interest in passing that bill. it's because everyone saw what happened to george floyd and realized that, yeah, racism is a problem in the country. and i like joe biden's answer, saying, you know, the american people, we're not racist, but we do have things to grapple with. that is the exact right tone. and when you just look at what tim scott is trying to do, he's trying to check too many boxes to still appease that trump base. and i don't see that as a future. it's just a different person saying the same things. >> well, a different person and, again, look, stating the obvious here, why would they pick tim scott, the only black senator, to give the response? i'm just saying. let's just be honest. we know why. thank you both. i appreciate it. >> thanks, don. >> it is what it is. joining me now, democratic
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senator amy klobuchar of minnesota. she is the author of a new book. wow. "antitrust: taking on monopoly power from the gilded age to the digital age." i'm so happy, i can't wait to read this book. thank you for joining and congratulations. >> thank you, don. there's also over 100 cartoons, so there you go. >> oh, really? good. >> one of my goals here was to make it so that people can learn about the history of this in fun ways, like the woman who invented the monopoly board was actually -- hated monopolies, and then she got kind of sold out and it became a pro-monopoly game. or ida tarbell, who is a muckraker who took on standard oil. so i tell these stories and make the case for we have taken on monopolies in the past in such a big way in this country,
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including the breakup of at&t, the breakup of standard oil, and now it's time to do something again because we literally are in our own gilded age because of tech but also because of a lot of other consolidated companies in this country. >> well, there you are. you talked to us about the book. so we got that in. thank you so much. seriously, i can't wait to read it. you know, i read your last book. i had to read it because i interviewed you so many times as you were running for president. i feel like i know more about your life than anybody else besides you. >> my husband does. >> your husband knows a lot about you. i'm just -- you know, i'm just saying that stuff. so let's talk about rudy giuliani. denying all the wrongdoing, claiming that it's all political. but "the washington post" is reporting, senator, that he was warned in late 2019 that he was the target of a russian influence operation trying to damage then-candidate biden politically. how much trouble -- listen, you're a former prosecutor, am i
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correct? a former attorney, right? >> yes. >> how much trouble could he be facing? >> you know, i -- one thing i've known from my job in the past is you don't know until all the facts come out. but they clearly felt that they had enough information to go forward, to search his personal information. and this may be stemming, of course, from what was going on with ukraine. it may going on with what was going on with russia and his activities. but one thing that i found out from the first time just from the news reports is that he had been warned about this, about how russia was instigating these misinformation campaigns against joe biden. and of course i thought it was interesting the fbi because they do periodically go tell people, because they're warning them to not be tools of a foreign country. and basically asking them, okay, if this happens to you, tell us, right? i don't think that sounds like what ended up happening with
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rudy giuliani. so we don't know until any kind of action is filed, but this is actually quite serious that this has happened. >> local media in your home state of minnesota is reporting that the justice department is planning to charge derek chauvin and three other police officers with federal civil rights violations related to george floyd's death. how significant is that? >> also significant. you know, we know how horrific this crime was, this murder, and it was a moment of redemption when that jury verdict was read, a moment of redemption for those witnesses, those just regular people who had been carrying this burden, wishing in their own words that they could have done more to save george floyd. and when i listened to them tell those stories on the stand, i thought, no, it's on all of us to do more. and the fact that the justice department has now stepped in
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as, one, to examine the practices at the minneapolis police report, and, two -- and this is only news reports -- are considering these cases, i think it's really important. and the second thing about this is we need to pass the george floyd justice in policing act. my friend cory booker, who is an incredible leader in the senate, so tim scott's not the only african-american senator, i will point out. and cory has been leading this bill. of course kamala harris, our vice president, who was incredible up there on the dais for the first moment where joe biden could turn to her and say madam vice president. she also had led this bill when she was in the senate, and i'm a co-sponsor. so cory is working hard with tim scott, with house members, to get this bill over the finish line. i think that would be true justice. the verdict was accountability. we need true justice. >> i should have said the only black republican senator. >> yeah, i know.
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i was trying to be nice about correcting you. >> you can always -- listen, i know you can correct me. i didn't say -- it came out wrong. thank you. >> that's okay. i just clarified it for the record. >> thank you, senator. listen, so happy to have you on again. the book is "antitrust: taking on monopoly power from the gilded age to the digital age." always a pleasure to have you on. good luck with the book. >> thanks a lot, don. tonight rudy giuliani denying any wrongdoing after federal authorities armed with search warrants seized electronic devices from his home and office. for more than two years now, he has been the focus of an investigation by the justice department concerning his activities in ukraine. i want to bring in now the former corruption and fraud prosecutor for the u.s. attorney's office for the southern district of new york. we're so happy to have you back on the program. thank you so much. i appreciate it.
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>> thanks for having me, don. glad to be here. >> i want you to listen to how rudy giuliani is defending himself tonight, and then we'll talk. here it is. >> that warrant is completely illegal. the only way you can get a search warrant is if you can show that there's some evidence that the person is going to destroy the evidence or is going to run away with the evidence. well, i've had it for two years, and i haven't destroyed it. and they also got it from the icloud. so there was no -- there was no justification for that warrant. it is an illegal, unconstitutional warrant. >> what do you think of his defense? >> he's wrong, legally wrong flat-out. you get a search warrant by proving to a judge that you have reason to believe, probable cause to believe that there's evidence of crime located at the place you're searching. it has nothing to do with evidence is going to be destroyed at all.
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so he's wrong about that. and, you know, i understand why he's putting up that defense because he's got to say something. if i was his lawyer, i'd tell him not to say anything frankly. >> the former lead u.s. attorney at the southern district for new york -- or of new york, the former mayor of new york, attorney to the president, i mean there must have been a real burden of proof for prosecutors to get a warrant, no? >> you're absolutely right, don. absolutely. there are so many hoops that you have to go through to search an attorney's office or home. put aside that giuliani was the attorney for the former president. a regular attorney, you have to get doj, main justice approval. for something like this, they had to go all the way up to the a.g., to merrick garland, to get approval. and for them, for the southern district of new york prosecutors
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to do that, they really went through a lot of hoops to do that, meaning they had real reason to do it. >> giuliani is the second trump attorney on the wrong end of a search warrant. we all remember the first one. it was michael cohen who spent time in jail, ended up cooperating with investigators. this is what he told cnn just today. >> guess what? there's going to be a ton of stuff. i'm certain of it. there's going to be a ton of documentation and rest assured donald is not happy about this. >> so michael cohen thinks that giuliani is going to cooperate. talk to me about the legal risks for the former president if he does, indeed, cooperate. >> it would be devastating, absolutely devastating if it turns out that rudy giuliani starts to cooperate against anybody frankly because that means that he has information
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that inculpates the people he is cooperating against. you don't get a cooperation agreement with any u.s. attorney's office unless you can help them with a case, unless you have inculpatory evidence against someone else. and we know that one of the potential targets is former president donald trump. >> yeah. while i have you here, kan, i want to ask you about "the daily beast" reporting. congressman matt gaetz's friend and wingman joel greenberg wrote a confession letter allegedly saying both he and the congressman paid for sex allegedly with several women and a 17-year-old girl. his spokesperson is denying the allegations. legally what's this looking like for him? >> you know, don, with this one, it's hard to say. i really cannot comment too much about it. but it's hard to say. >> yeah. we'll leave it there. thank you, sir. i appreciate you coming on.
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always a pleasure to see you. >> thank you. three men charged by a federal grand jury with hate crimes in connection with the death of ahmaud arbery. the 25-year-old black man shot and killed while jogging in georgia in a neighborhood there. i'm going to talk to ahmaud arbery's mother. that's next.
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three georgia men already facing state murder charges in the death of ahmaud arbery more than a year ago, now facing federal hate crimes and attempted kidnapping charges as well. ar berry, a 25-year-old black man was jogging near brunswick, georgia, in february of 2020, when he was chased down and shot to death. joining me now is wanda cooper, ahmaud's mother. it's good to see you again. thank you so much for joining. i really appreciate it. >> thanks for having me again. >> these charges are good news, i would imagine, in your son's
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case. >> yes. >> are you feeling confident that the system is working as it should in moving towards justice for ahmaud? >> yes. after receiving that news yesterday, it was assurance that we're working in the right direction to get justice for ahmaud. so it was very good news yesterday. >> on the one-year anniversary of ahmaud's death, you filed a wrongful death lawsuit. why do you believe this investigation has moved so slowly, ms. cooper? >> i'll have to say -- i want to say because of covid. we had all these covid restrictions that we're still under, so that held back a lot of the court dates and hearings. i can say now that everyone's getting vaccinated, i'm hoping to have a court date here soon. >> mm-hmm. we were going to get your attorney. do we have the attorney yet or no? we don't have the attorney. okay. so we were going to have your
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attorney on. we were just waiting to see if he can join us, but let me ask you this as we wait. in addition to the federal hate crime charges, the three men are also charged with attempted kidnapping in connection with your son's death. according to prosecutors, they used force and threats of force to interfere with his right to use a public street, specifically because of his race and color. are you satisfied with these charges, or do you want more? >> i'm very satisfied with the doj. they went in and did the investigation, and they came out with those indictments. so i'm very pleased about it. >> last week we saw the conviction of derek chauvin, the officer who knelt on george floyd's neck and killed him. i know that nothing can bring back your son, ahmaud. but do you believe that we are beginning at least to see a reckoning in racial justice in
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this country? >> i do believe after we got the guilty verdict for george floyd that the courts made the right decisions. the jurors, they went in and found him guilty. i think at some point we are moving in the right direction. hopefully we get the same type of verdict in ahmaud's case as well. >> i want to thank you for joining us. i really appreciate it. please keep us updated as to what happens with your son. >> okay. >> and the people who are charged with his death. thank you so much. i appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> thank you. multiple black people shot by police since the derek chauvin verdict was reached. w. kamau bell weighs in. he's next. plus cnn is inside india. their health care system on the brink of collapse. we're going to take you there. i don't just play someone brainy on tv - i'm an actual neuroscientist. and i love the science behind neuriva plus. unlike ordinary memory supplements, neuriva plus fuels six key indicators of brain performance. more brain performance?
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the biden administration sending urgent shipments of medical supplies to india where the health care system is on the brink of collapse, completely overwhelmed by a catastrophic surge in covid cases sweeping the country. cnn is on the ground in india. here's chief international correspondent clarissa ward. >> reporter: in delhi now, you're never far from heartbreak. almost everyone in the city has been visited by grief. at this crematorium, the loss weighs heavily in the smoldering air, and the dead are piling up. there are bodies literally
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everywhere you turn here. i've honestly never seen anything quite like it. and the organizers say that pre-covid, they might creme ei eat seven or people a day. today they've created 55 bodies and it's not even lunch time. just months ago india's leadership boasted the country had effectively defeated covid. now it has set global records for new cases as a terrifying second wave ravages the country. this individual says he and his men don't even stop to take breaks, and still they can barely cope with the flow. a volunteer approaches. they've run out of tables for the bodies, he says, then adds that his mother died from covid the night before. you must be tired. >> very.
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time is not for rest. >> do you believe the covid figures they're giving or do you think the real figures are much higher? >> translator: the numbers that you're seeing on television are the numbers of people who are dying in hospitals. they're not factoring in the people who died at home in isolation. if those numbers are added, the actual number will go up by three times. >> reporter: to keep up with those mounting numbers, the crematorium has been forced to expand, creating an overflow area in a neighboring car park. this individual is saying good-bye to his 45-year-old younger brother. >> last night, i was thinking that his health is improving. but suddenly the doctor came that your brother has expired. >> reporter: do you think his death could have been prevented?
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>> yes, yes. i think we can save him if better health hospital. >> reporter: india's health care system is at a breaking point, unable to scope with the scale of the crisis, its people left to fend for themselves. this crowd has been waiting for six hours for the chance to get some oxygen. they can't rely on the state. >> reporter: your mother? how old is she? >> 47. >> reporter: is her oxygen very low? >> she's in very critical condition. >> 58%. we tried this morning. we're not getting oxygen anywhere. >> reporter: how many places have you been to? >> 19. >> 19? >> since morning, since 6:00 a.m.
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>> reporter: have you tried taking her to the hospital? >> there are no beds. >> reporter: this woman was lucky enough to find her mother a place in a hospital, only to find out there was no oxygen. >> i'm so scared what's going to happen with my mom. >> reporter: are you angry? >> i'm so angry because the organization of our government, it's so careless. they even don't care about suffering. >> reporter: her mother is now in critical condition. like many here, she feels completely overwhelmed. for those who can't source their
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own oxygen, this is the only option. a drive-in oxygen center by the side of the road. a woman arrives unconscious in a rickshaw. several hospitals have already turned her away. they simply didn't have the beds. now she is relying on the kindness of strangers. her sons work desperately to try to revive her. this isn't a hospital or even a clinic. it's a sikh temple. but for these people who have already been turned away from so many hospitals, this is their last chance at survival. the leader of the sikh charity that runs this facility says it gets no support at all from the government. he says he already had covid
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twice, but he and his volunteers continue to work 24 hours a day. >> this is our heart's work. >> it must hurt your heart to see your people suffering? >> yes, madam. many times we cry out, what is going on? >> reporter: it is impossible to escape the tragedy of this vicious second wave. coronavirus is ravaging the old, but it has not spared india's young. the prime minister has announced that everyone over the age of 18 can get the vaccine, but with less than 2% of the country inoculated, that offers only a distant hope. so india's capital continues to
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burn, suffocated by the rampant spread of this deadly virus. a city and a country brought to its knees, praying for respite. clarissa ward, cnn, new delhi. >> heartbreaking. clarissa, thank you so much. for ways that you can help combat india's coronavirus crisis, please go to the floyd family on capitol hill tonight along with others who have lost loved ones to law enforcement, pushing for police reform. w. kamau bell weighs in. he's next. u've flushed it all. and it's building up in your septic tank. but monthly usage of rid-x is scientifically proven to break down waste. maintain your septic tank with rid-x.
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so we can be together. let's get to immunity. now's your moment to get vaccinated. the families of the victims of daily police violence meeting on capitol hill with a bipartisan group calling for passage of the george floyd justice in policing act by may 25th, the first anniversary of floyd's murder. we had the guilty verdict in the derek chauvin trial last week, but since then at least three black people have been shot by police. ma'khia bryant was killed in ohio, anthony brown jr. killed in north carolina. isaiah brown shot in virginia. w. kamau bell is here, the host of cnn's ""united shades of
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ame america". i love having conversations with you. what's the real takeaway, do you think, of the chauvin verdict? >> i mean the takeaway from the chauvin verdict is that is one case in one place in america that there was some measure of justice for his family, for george floyd's family. but it is not something we should extrapolate that we think this is a change for the rest of the country. we know that as you mentioned from the black people that have died since then, we also lost adam toledo who is 13 and mario gonzalez out here in al mee tow, california. >> you talked to multiple police reform activists who say law enforcement is an inherently race system. i want to watch a clip. >> is this moment different as far as like where we are in america and specifically around law enforcement? >> for me, it's just this moment
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of being a black man in a police uniform. >> mm-hmm. >> right? and there are some problems, some systemic problems that's been in policing for a very long time that you know need to be rooted out. so you sit in this place where you're like, do i fit in, right? sometimes you even ask the question, do i fit in? i'm a black man before i put on a uniform, and i'm one when i take it off. >> and one while you've got it on. >> right. >> okay. so then how do they reconcile the foundations of policing and how racism has been embedded in the system from the start? >> well, you know, admitting that it's racist is just part of it. the way that you fix this is by going, well, how can we re-imagine this system of policing in this country so that it is not built and standing on racism? you know, we talk about in the episode, i talk to dr. nikki jones from cal berkeley, an african-american studies professor, that it's based on the way -- it's based on the barbados police code, which is
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how to police people you own. that is the fundamental part of policing. it stems from them all the way to right now. we have to re-imagine what safety looks like. for example, a lot of calls police end up killing over are people going through health crises or a man drunk in a park. you don't need a police officer with a gun. you need a social worker or someone who can give him a ride home. >> in 1968, a commission investigated the cause of inner city violence and discovered that it was not black anger but white racism that was the root of the problem. that was more than 50 years ago. have any of the lessons of that report -- you think that's been put into action, kamau? >> no, it hasn't been put into action. lbj rejected all the findings, and in the nixon administration, the war on drugs started which specifically targeted black and latinx folks. so we know that it didn't take
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any lessons. that's why i think a lot of black activists and indigenous activists don't want to hear about reform because that's what reform got us, the law on drugs. reform got cops getting tanks and militarized gear that we saw in the streets of ferguson. that's what reform gets us. it is about a whole new system and a lot of that starts with the funding of police. >> i want to get your take on what we heard from senator tim scott last night about this country not being racist. >> no. don't do it to me, don. no! >> why not? >> okay. >> let me tell you what he said. he said the original sin isn't the end of the story. it is the story of redemption. what are your thoughts on what he said? i gather from your reaction -- go on. >> i mean it sounds like a low-rent e.e. cummings poem. i don't know what that was. this country was built on racism. it was built on the genocide of native americans and on the
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transatlantic slave trade for enslaving african people. and the country we all live in right now, we all in some way are benefiting from that. now, obviously black folks are not benefiting as much as white folks are, but we're all sitting on indigenous land that was stolen from them, and it was built by enslaved africans. that's the truth. and the fact that we were enslaved and when we got our, quote, unquote, freedom, we were never restored whole, which is why you hear about reparations. so until the united states atones for that and makes good on that, we're still living in a racist country. >> w. kamau bell. you don't hold your tongue. never at a loss for words. i see you, brother. thank you, sir. i'll see you soon. all right? but you can always see w. kamau bell. make sure you tune in. an all new season of "united shades of america" with w. kamau bell premieres this sunday only on cnn. next, though, a semblance of civility between a democrat and a republican.
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so before we go, did you see the greeting between president joe biden and gop congresswoman liz cheney? did you see it? well, we're going to show it to you. they fist bumped last night as biden was end ring the house chamber. cheney fist bumping biden is a no-no to some on the right like donald trump junior, but cheney is having none of it, tweeting this. i disagree strongly with joe biden's policies but when the president reaches out to greet me in the chamber of the u.s. house of representatives, i will always respond in a civil, respectful, and dignified way. we're different political parties. we're not sworn enemies. we're americans. wow. where has that been? thanks for watching, everyone. our coverage continues. p from s? because a good night's rest is where muscles recover, and our minds are restored.
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are you a christian author with a book that you're ready to share with the world? get published now, call for your free publisher kit today! ♪ ♪ devastating scenes from israel as dozens of killed in a stampede at a religious festival. we're live on the scene. as global covid numbers surpass 150 million, the funeral fires burn in india as the country struggles with the virus getting worse and worse. and rudy giuliani comes out fighting. he says what federal authorities did when raiding his home and office was unconscionable. live from cnn world headquarters in atlanta, welcome to all of you watching here in the


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