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tv   CNN Newsroom With Alisyn Camerota and Victor Blackwell  CNN  April 29, 2021 11:00am-12:00pm PDT

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join me on twitter in the meantime. "newsroom" continues with alisyn "newsroom" continues with alisyn and victor next. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com hello, and thank you for being with us. i'm victor blackwell. >> and i'm alisyn camerota. president biden arriving in georgia moments ago where he's set to visit former president jimmy carter. he's on the road to publicly pitch his big plans to transform the middle class but biden's already getting pushback from even within his own party. and we have new details about the fed's raid of rudy giuliani's apartment. first we're just watching the first couple there get into the transport. so, rudy's apartment and office were raided. president trump's one-time fixer and personal attorney, michael cohen, tells us that he thinks this was about much more than just ukraine. and michael cohen is going to join us live just ahead. there is also this global
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tragedy that is getting worse by the hour in india. some streets are now lined with make makeshift crematoriums as the count of deaths continues to surge. we'll take you live to new delhi in a moment. but first, let's get to the president's big pitch. cnn chief white house correspondent kaitlan collins is traveling with the president in georgia and cnn chief congressional correspondent manu raju is getting reaction on capitol hill. kaitlan, to you first. how was the president using this trip to promote and push all that we heard in that first address to congress? >> reporter: well, of course, it's notable he is here in georgia, the state that has given him that slim majority that he has in the senate so he is there going speak to the carters, who he, of course, has not seen because they weren't able to attend his inauguration because of the pandemic but he'll be here hosting that drive-thru rally, touting that plan, and they've got the signs up about the 100 days, saying they want to get america back on track, so that's going to be the way that you see president biden
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pitch that plan here to voters and to georgians here in just a few hours. of course, this is a massive transformational proposal that the president is putting forward. it's just one step in several other spending plans that he has also put forward. in addition to that covid relief bill that has already passed. but with this one, what you're seeing from president biden is he really wants to rethink the government's role when it comes to education and child care and paid family leave. and the way he's framing it, and the way we're seeing him make this argument, of course, comes on the heels of this pandemic and the economic -- the disaster that followed, and trying to basically reshape the way americans see the role of the government given what happened to so many last year with those job losses, with those unemployment numbers that followed the pandemic and the restrictions that came alongside it. so, that has really been the way that we've seen him argue it, it's the way we saw him argue it last night, saying we don't want to just get back to normal. he wants to revamp what normal looks like. so of course, whether or not
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that is a gamble and a proposal that pays off with voters still remains to be seen. there's no polling, of course, on his american families plan since he just unveiled it last night but that is certainly going to be the first stop on the road tonight or today here in georgia. he's also going to make several more stops not only in pennsylvania but also next week as well as some of his top aides, including the vice president, vice president harris as well. >> so, manu, president biden's plans or proposals are expensive. i mean, in the trillions of dollars. so, what's been the reaction on capitol hill? >> reporter: well, caution on both sides. well, on the republican side, it's actually been opposition stiffening. there's very few republicans who are signaling a willingness to go anywhere near the scope of what joe biden is proposing. on the democratic side, that's where you're hearing openness, some outright supporting, some concerned and that is a concern for the biden administration as it tries to work this through congress. one very important democrat, joe
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manchin of west virginia, who is a key swing vote in the 50/50 senate told me earlier today that this is a very expensive proposal, and he said that congress will have to scrutinize this as he held out ways of supporting this until he dives further into the details. are you concerned about this push for more expansive government? >> most certainly, yeah, i am. but i want to see the details as we talked before, but we can't overreach to the point where we stymie investments, stymie growth for 2022, '23, '24 and on. >> reporter: when you look at the overall price tag. >> it's a lot. millions and trillions of dollars. here's the thing. we've got $1.9 trillion that hasn't gone out the door yet, we just passed. american rescue plan. >> reporter: tudo you think it needs to be fully paid for? >> we do. we're almost $28.2 trillion -- that's not sustainable. in anybody's book, it's not sustainable. >> reporter: do you think
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there's a push to do it by democratic votes alone, by reconciliation? >> i'm not for that, i've never been the for that. the bottom line is this place has got to have a chance to work. >> reporter: and that is the key decision that democratic leaders will have to make in the weeks ahead is whether or not to try to continue to negotiate with republicans as they're doing right now on the infrastructure package or whether or not to try to go it alone through a budget process that allows them to pass things along straight party lines. they were able to do that to enact the $1.9 trillion relief law but will they do that here going forward? still an open question as they are keeping that option open but one republican who approached joe biden on the floor of the house yesterday was senator rob portman, and i am told from a person familiar with the exchange with the president and portman, portman told the president, don't leave us out. so, a plea from a republican senator to continue those negotiations. we'll see if it leads to anything, and we'll see what democratic leaders ultimately decide. >> manu raju for us there, thank you so much, manu. kaitlan, stay with us.
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i want to bring in now evan, he's a cnn contributor, staff writer for the "new yorker" and author of "joe biden: the life, the run and what matters now." evan, thanks for being with us. i want to start on the breadth of what we heard from the president last night. and put it in the context of what he said during the campaign. he said, i view myself as a bridge, not as anything else. a transition to a new group of democratic political leaders. but the plans he proposed last night speak more to a leader who is not just in transition but willingly and intentionally wants to be more than that. >> very much so. i mean, what's interesting is alongside him saying that he initially thought he would be a transitional president, he then also felt very much the weight of history coming to bear on him. i mean, i was talking to him last summer about it, and he would say, i feel like i'm in a similar position to what fdr was in after facing the great
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depression and you heard him reference roosevelt last night, talking about how it's really on all of us. we all have to play a part. and that really was one of the messages that sort of came through. they were driving this home over and over, where they said, doing nothing is not an option. he situated it, trying to put this into perspective. saying, look, we are facing challenges at home, challenges abroad, that are so substantial that we really don't have the luxury of being locked in the same old arguments, being locked in the same old systems. you know, sort of put out for people a couple of examples. he sort of wanted people to decide, does this sound right to you, that 55 of the largest american companies paid no federal income tax last year? does it sound right to you that black men and women are dying in encounters with police at the rate they have been? he wants to make people say something feels wrong, and it's time to make changes, and now, of course, the hard part is how do you find the political pathway to do it? >> and that brings us to kaitlan. kaitlan, you know, biden is kind of getting credit for bringing boring back, but these proposals
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are not boring. i mean, these -- what he's talking about is bold, and so, where is he getting the notion that he is going to be able to pull off something transformational? >> reporter: i think what he sees here is really an opening, because even what he is talking about now, what he is proposing is not the way you heard him speak as a candidate. he was really talking then as you're talking to evan about being a transitional candidate. at one time he said, people wanted results, not a revolution. of course, a not to his counterparts that were running against him to the left. but i do think something that we have seen in joe biden since he was vice president when he was toying with the idea of a presidential run, has been this sense of a populist streak, and you heard that break through many times last night, especially with what evan was just talking about, with this notion of fairness when it comes to taxes and the way he wants to pay for these plans. but i also think the pandemic and what followed opened up a chance for him, he feels like, and his top aides certainly feel like, to get something like this
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passed. and so that is what he is saying when he is invoking someone like roosevelt. he is saying, these are the kind of problems that roosevelt also had to deal with. we are facing a similar challenge, so he says, we need a similar response. and i think the question is whether or not he can galvanize supporters and voters around that message and to build support for that. and that is really the big unknown. we don't know that yet. as manu was alluding to, we don't know what the end result of this bill was going to look like, given senators manchin and others are going to be weighing in, so is senator sanders on healthcare and drug prices. i think that remains to be seen but if you look at the bottom line, what president biden is counting on is that americans realized last year just how close they could be to a precarious situation when it comes to their finances. and he wants to restructure that and change that going forward, not just return to where they were in the months before the pandemic hit. and so, that is why he's making stops like the one he's making
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here in georgia today. he wants to talk to voters about it. he wants to sell it in a way that he did to lawmakers last night and on television and so that's something you're going to expect to continue to see him doing for the next few weeks and next few months. >> kaitlan, you're there in georgia. the president dedicated a lot of time last night to urging congress to pass legislation on climate and infrastructure, jobs and family leave, free kindergarten as well. pre-kindergarten. but i wonder, he's heading to georgia, and he reserved just a few seconds for protection of voting rights. georgia has not moved on. has the white house? >> reporter: i don't think the white house has moved on, per se. we are told that he is going to be meeting with stacey abrams while he's here. she's going to be at this drive-in rally with president biden and so i think the question is really a reflection of what we saw from president biden at that first press
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conference, which is his list of priorities and how he sees this, and of course, covid and the economy have been number one and number two all along, and though these things have popped up where they have gotten a ton of headlines and a lot of attention from president biden's supporters, like here in georgia when it comes to voting rights, that isn't something the white house has referenced but it was not a pillar of his search last night. his main point last night was to sell that american families plan. i do think we will hear a lot more from president biden on voting rights when he's actually here in georgia, speaking on the stage behind me in just a little bit from now, though. but you do have a good point. the question is, you know, how big of a priority does the white house make it? how much do they push for? because you know, they've only got so much leverage and he wants to uses it for this american families plan, and the infrastructure plan right now. >> kaitlan collins, evan osnos, thank you both very much for all the insight. president biden has weighed in on the raid of rudy giuliani's home and office.
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he says he was not given a heads-up and does not want to be briefed on the matter. plus, president trump's other personal attorney, who had his home and office raided by the feds, michael cohen is going to join us live for his first interview since hearing the giuliani news and what giuliani should expect next. aspen denta, today is the day to take back your smile. why wait? we're here nights, weekends and right now, to give you exceptional care and 20% off your treatment plan. new patients, take the first step with a complete exam and x-rays that are free without insurance. because our nationwide network of over 1,500 doctors at 900 locations all have one goal — to make you smile, today. start now. call 1-800-aspendental or book online at aspendental.com before, it got started with a key. then a button. now... ♪ ♪ see? it's on.
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rely on the experts at 1800petmeds for the same medications as the vet, but for less with fast free shipping. visit petmeds.com today. so, the biden white house says it was not given advance notice of the federal raid of ex-trump attorney rudy giuliani's home and office yesterday. this stunning move by the justice department is rooted in a long-running investigation into giuliani's activities in
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ukraine through the trump presidency. cnn's senior legal affairs correspondent, paula reid, is with us now. paula, we're now hearing from the president on this. what is he saying? >> reporter: he says that he wants to preserve the justice department's independence, so he was not briefed, nor was he even given a heads-up about yesterday's raid. let's take a listen to what exactly he said. >> i learned about that last night when the rest of the world learned about it. my word. i had no idea this was under way. this last administration politicized the justice department so badly, so many of them quit. so many left because that's not the role. that is not the role of a president to say who should be prosecuted, when they should be prosecuted, who should be not prosecuted. >> reporter: he appears to be making a reference to former president trump who often meddled in the justice department's affairs and would even call for specific people to be investigated. now, we are learning new details about what happened yesterday at mr. giuliani's home and office.
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we've learned that seven fbi agents showed up to his home but even more went to his office where they seized a computer belonging to one of his executive assistants, and she has also received a subpoena to appear before a grand jury next month, suggesting mr. giuliani's legal troubles are far from over. >> paula reid, thank you very much for all those developments. so, before rudy giuliani, only one other personal attorney for a u.s. president had ever had his home and office raided by federal agents and that was michael cohen in april of 2018. four months later, he pleaded guilty in federal court to eight criminal counts including tax evasion and campaign finance violations. he received three years in prison. today, he is still on house arrest and he joins us live. michael, thank you so much for being here. >> hey, it's good to see you, alisyn. >> good to see you too. what did you think when you heard the news of the raid on rudy giuliani's home and office? >> well, two things came straight to mind. first is that i'm no longer the only one. and two, my parents always told
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me it's not nice to gloat, but rudy, i told you so. i told you so. >> what do you mean? what did you tell him? >> well -- what i told him was that donald trump doesn't care about anyone or anything, that he will be the next one to be thrown under the bus, and that's exactly what's going to happen. >> we now know, as you just heard from paula, that seven agents came to his apartment very early yesterday and they seized his electronic devices, as they did with you. you predict they're going to find a lot of interesting correspondence on there beyond whatever the communications were with ukrainian officials. like what? >> well, who knows what rudy was involved with? what we're going to find out is there are text messages, there are emails, there are different types of communication apps that the fbi knows how to re-establish, even if rudy, who i don't think is technological, tried to, you know, tried to delete or what have you.
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it doesn't make a difference. and what happens is they may be starting the investigation, looking at things like the ukrainian conversations between himself, lev parnas and others. you may find out jared kushner was involved or don junior or a host of other individuals in trump's orbit and what happens then is that the southern district, they end up expanding the probe. look what happened, for example, with me. they took 14 million documents out of all of my various different electronics. now, most of them, if not 10 million, belonged to my wife and children with the bulk of it being photographs from the time my children, 25 years ago, were first born, all the way to date. but they're going to find in rudy's the same sort of thing and that expands the investigation. and rudy was always involved. i mean, rudy's been shady for a long time and what you're going to find is that it's going to
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expand the investigation into other areas that rudy doesn't even possibly remember, or if he does remember, he certainly didn't want it released. >> i mean, you say that in your experience, they find things that you thought you had long ago deleted. i mean, how far back do they go when they seize your electronic stuff? literally decades? >> i mean, there were some things that i absolutely am certain were deleted. they weren't relevant to anything. i mean, remember, i was -- i ultimately was charged as a result of the hush money payment to stormy daniels, and it expanded out into other areas where they then decided they wanted to talk about some of the contracts that i had with overseas entities, but my overseas entities were private companies. they weren't governments like with rudy. you're going to start to see a multitude of documents. my only -- you may even find out that rudy was involved with bill barr in the remand of me the second time to prison based upon
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a donald trump communication. we have no idea how expansive this investigation is going to ultimately reveal itself, because rudy's an idiot. and that's the problem. rudy drinks too much. rudy behaves in such an erratic manner that who knows what's on those telephones or what's on his computers? >> michael, having been through this experience yourself, you've seen the tactics that the federal prosecutors use when they want you, you know, when they want information, when they want you to give them some kind of information, not even just about yourself but, say, perhaps, about former president trump. so, what do you think rudy is going to do? i mean, since you have been through this ringer, do you think that he would offer up information about president trump, in other words, turn on donald trump? >> first of all, you have to understand, there really is no relationship, nor has there ever been, between rudy and donald. prior to donald becoming president, rudy didn't like donald, and donald certainly didn't like rudy. so, do i think rudy will give up
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donald in a heartbeat? absolutely. he certainly doesn't want to follow my path down into a 36-month sentence for something as innocuous as a hush money payment, right, to a porn star. and i want to state here again, at the direction of and for the benefit of donald j. trump. what's ironic here is the fact that these tactics of the southern district of new york in terms of bullying you into a plea deal were created by rudy giuliani going back 30 years ago, and it's just ironic that the tactics that he created for that office are now going to be employed against him in terms of making him plead guilty and certainly, at the least, turning over information about jared, ivanka, about don junior, about donald himself, about all of these individuals in that garbage can orbit of donald trump. >> and so having lived through this, michael, what is going to happen next for rudy giuliani?
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>> well, i think he starts to sweat more and hopefully he's taken the stuff out of his hair that turns it black because it's going to be everywhere. he's nervous. there's no doubt that he's nervous. and he's rightful -- it's fair. and it's rightfully so that he's nervous because he knows the power of the sdny is unlimited, and they use that power. they use it the way that they want to use it, and he -- look, he's been involved in some very, very shady stuff, and now, all of it is going to come out. >> and what -- specifically, what shady stuff? >> it's a bad place for rudy to be in. >> what shady stuff are you referring to? >> all of the relationships that he had with foreign countries as he was running around the world basically telling people that, i am donald trump's right hand, that if you need something, i'm the guy who's going to be able to deliver it for you. i mean, i remember sitting with rudy many years ago, prior to even my -- to the raid on my home and my law office, and rudy
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was talking to me about potentially joining with him to giuliani partners and he was talking about the game plan and how it would give tremendous access, the proximity to trump, and having the ability to go to world leaders and to travel the globe in terms of building a business. and you know, we spoke for a very short period of time about me possibly even joining him. >> so, michael, what advice do you have for rudy giuliani today? >> well, my advice to him -- and look, he doesn't need my advice on this. this is the guy that slows people in the 1990s very, very hard as he was head of the southern district of new york. he knows exactly what's coming down the road. he knows how to avoid what the ultimate consequence is going to be, and i believe that he's going to start -- he's going to start talking one, two, three, you know, and he's going to do something that i didn't do. he's actually going to make an agreement with the southern district of new york for a 5k 1
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agreement in order to cut him slack. i refused. i truly didn't believe that i had done anything, you know, wrong. i disputed, of course, the entire tax evasion or the misrepresentation to a bank. i disputed it in my presentencing report and i disputed it on this show. but i was involved in the hush money payment to stormy daniels, and i knew that that was going to cause me a real problem, that even if i beat the government on the issues of the tax, as well as the misrepresentation to a bank, it would make no difference. i was still guilty and i accept that for the hush money payment to only stormy daniels. >> yeah, michael, if you would, stick around. we have many more questions for you because right after the break, we want to talk to you about donald trump's reaction to the raid and what it means for the former president. we'll be right back.
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and we are back with michael cohen, the former personal attorney for president trump. he's also the author of the book, "disloyal" and the host of the "mea culpa" podcast. your former boss, donald trump, is speaking out on this raid of rudy giuliani's apartment. here's what he had to say this morning. >> rudy giuliani is a great patriot. he does these things -- he just loves this country. and they raid his apartment?
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it's like, so unfair and such a double -- it's like a double standard like i don't think anybody's ever seen before. it's very, very unfair. rudy is a patriot who loves this country, and i don't know what they're looking for, what they're doing. >> so, michael, you know donald trump so well. that's what he's saying publicly. what do you think he's saying behind the scenes? >> yeah, oh boy. you know, if he understood yiddish i would say rudy's got some real trouble coming down the pike, i can assure you on that one. but it's interesting how donald turns around and says that nobody has ever seen anything like this before. hello, donald. you remember me, the guy whose name that you forgot while you were sitting at the table when you were complaining that they raided one of your lawyer's offices and home? guess what? they did it to him again, and guess what? there's going to be a ton of stuff. i'm certain of it.
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there's going to be a ton of documentation and there's going to be a bunch of tweets and a bunch of texts and a bunch of god knows what else that they ended up obtaining from these devices, and that hopefully we as the, you know, as the members of the, you know, of the country will have a chance to see them. i'm certain that they're there, and rest assured, donald is not happy about this. >> and do you think that donald trump is scared today? >> oh, i know so. i mean, he was afraid even when they raided my home and my law office because donald trump cares about only one person, and i say it all the time. he cares about only himself. so, he doesn't care that they raided rudy's home. he doesn't care that they raided rudy law office. what is it going to do to affect me is all that he's thinking right now. what did stupid rudy do? what did stupid rudy write? what sort of text messages or
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emails, what sort of stupid things was rudy up to that's now going to implicate me? because donald knows he has enough trouble right now between tish james and the attorney general's office as well as cy vance and the district attorney's office here in new york, forgetting about georgia, forgetting about d.c. with the pick, forgetting about all these other litigations. how about the dozens or so from women with assault cases? he knows that he has all sorts of legal issues. he didn't need more. that's one thing i can sayassur you. he definitely didn't need more and rudy is going to be a treasure-trove. in all fairness, merrick garland is like santa claus, and rudy's devices are going to be like the presents that are waiting for you on christmas day. >> i want to ask you about that, about the merrick garland connection because andrew giuliani has come out publicly and railed against this raid and said it's all a political witch hunt, all motivated by politics.
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what's your response to him? >> well, actually, i think what andrew said is that it's political thuggery, which i didn't see andrew coming out and saying anything when it happened to me, nor did i see rudy say anything when it happened to me. what is interesting is that the last time i saw andrew, he was giving a golf lesson on one of trump's properties. now all of a sudden, he too has become a spokesperson. i mean, it's almost comical that they put people in these positions. i understand andrew's contemplating on running for governor. it's another joke. and what do i think? i think rudy knows that he has trouble. i think donald understands that rudy will provide whatever information that he has to the sdny because rudy has no interest in going to prison and spending the golden years of his life behind bars. that, i'm certain of. >> you know, michael, i also want to ask you because i haven't talked to you since then. i want to acknowledge that you did predict what would happen if
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donald trump lost the election, and you told congress -- i mean, a congressional committee that he would not leave peacefully, so i just want to remind everybody what you said back on february 27, 2019. >> given my experience working for mr. trump, i fear that if he loses the election in 2020, that there will never be a peaceful transition of power. >> and sadly, that came to pass with the insurrection. on january 6th. i mean, that's -- you know, you saw it coming, and so because you know this so well, do you think that president trump has any intention of running for office again at this point? >> so, the answer to that is no. he's not going to be running again. it's all a grift. it's all so that he can continue to raise money off the backs of the ignorant who believe him and that continue, to this day, to listen to this racist, sexist, misogynistic, xenophobic,
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homophobic, islamaphobic anti-semite. that's the saddest part and there were 74 million people that voted for him. the question becomes, why? why? he is the most flawed human being, right? and it's sad. it really is sad that people are still thinking that he could possibly run, that he would be the leader today if, in fact, the republicans had to pick and choose somebody. i truly don't understand it. but that's not the only thing i predicted. i also told jim jordan or mark meadows or one of these other clowns that were sitting there drilling me during that day, i said, listen, i know the playbook and i know the plays that you're trying to run on me right now because i wrote the playbook. so, what are you doing? i know that donald trump doesn't care about anyone or anything other than himself, and that he will throw anyone and everyone under the bus if and when the time comes. i warned rudy on it. and look at all of the people, whether it's matt gaetz or any of these other jokers that just
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sit there and they keep following donald trump, thinking -- and this is the big problem when you are associated or in trump's orbit. you actually, for that moment, believe that you're invincible. you sort of take on trump's persona and think that you're teflon don. well guess what? you're not. and it's being shown again and again and again. >> i mean, look, we're talking to you, you're on house arrest because of your relationship and what the -- the choices you made for donald trump, and so what now, today, would you change? >> oh, my god. what would i change? the i would have certainly rejected the offer going back in 2007 to come work for him. i should have listened to my wife and my children who had begged me, you know, year after year after year to leave. i didn't need to work for him. i was doing very well without working for trump, and why i allowed my moral compass to take a dumpster dive real south working for him, i don't know.
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maybe i was missing something in my life. there was a lot of excitement going on between "the apprentice," miss universe, i don't know. i stay up many, many nights thinking about how i would do things differently if i had a time machine, but rest assured, home confinement, being locked up for 22 hours a day, even though it's in your own home, it's certainly a lot better than being in otisville, that i promise you but it's not easy. days that the weather' inclement, i don't even go out so you're in 24 hours a day and that's why i really created "mea culpa" the podcast and trying to keep myself busy but it's very tough, i have to be honest with you. it's not easy. >> well, michael cohen, we appreciate your insight into all this. you of anyone else in the country has a lot of insight into this situation, so thank you so much for all the time today. >> you're very welcome. good to see you, alisyn. >> you too, michael. >> really no better person to
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talk with today after that news about rudy giuliani and over the last, what, 24 hours, there have been some who know giuliani well who have said, there is no way that he is going to turn on president trump, but the man, the only other personal attorney who's been in this space says, he will turn on him in a heartbeat. >> yes. michael says something very different, and he has a perspective from which he knows. >> all right. listen, we've got breaking news in the death of andrew brown. a decision has been made about some of the officers involved in the fatal police shooting there in north carolina. some major shifts. we'll take you there live next. if you're 55 and up, t- mobile has plans built just for you. switch today and get 2 lines of unlimited and 2 free smartphones. plus you'll now get netflix on us.
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gillette proglide. five blades and a pivoting flexball designed to get virtually every hair on the first stroke. so you're ready for the day with a fresh face for a fresh start. for a limited time get a 5th cartridge free. the covid crisis across india is breaking records, becoming one of the world's worst outbreaks. the government is scrambling to respond to new case counts and hospitals there are overwhelmed and nearly out of oxygen. >> more than 200,000 people in india have died of coronavirus.
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3,300, close to it, died just yesterday. crematoriums are trying to keep up with the lines of people. look at this. they're trying to keep up with the lines of people waiting to cremate their lost friends and relatives. sam kiley, cnn senior international correspondent, is in new delhi. sam, you spent a day at a crematorium there and it -- unbelievable what we're seeing coming out of india. describe for us what it's like there and what you have seen. >> reporter: well, victor, we started the morning at the crematorium, and i think you probably got the images up in front of you now. the numbers that were anticipated that would be cremated that day were going to be about 150. i don't know for sure, but by the time we had finished there at about 10:00 or 11:00 p.m. local time, they had definitely burned, in my estimate or guesstimate, considerably more than that. it was a really extraordinary
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scenes of great quiet on the part of the people working there, trying to treat every single individual with the dignity that they deserved as they were put through the last rites but they did have to suffer the indignity, the dead had to queue, victor. they had to -- or their attendants would have to go and get a slip of paper like you do -- a ticket like going to a bank or seeing a doctor. and then wait there. taking many, many hours in a lot of cases. the numbers of people being burned are going up so fast that the delhi mayor has appealed for extra wood to be supplied to the crematorium and the area's obviously very thick with smoke around them as all of these bodies are being burnt. they've extended the area of the crematorium into an area next door, a bit of waste ground about the size -- a bit bigger than a baseball pitch where --
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rather a basketball pitch where they were burning, on average, at peak, about 50 people, and then once that was full, they would move back into the official location where they traditionally would burn the pyres and burn there again. so it was a relentless process, and really, symbolically, a catastrophic -- genuinely tragic example of the inability of a country that has a space program, that has warships such as aircraft carriers at sea, but with these massive inequalities between the rich and the poor in this country, the public sector, health service, and the private sector health service, the entire health structures have been completely overwhelmed by this pandemic. victor? alisyn? >> i have a question for you, sam. you know, here in the u.s., so many people died alone. they died alone in their hospital rooms, and in that way, we were sort of shielded from the horror of it, because our cameras didn't capture it.
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but your cameras are capturing the hellscape of all of the death, and i mean, i can just imagine the smell, the feeling that the -- the burning of the eyes. it's just -- i mean, it's nightmarish, and so you know, how are the crematoriums coming up with this? >> reporter: they're looking pretty stunned, pretty shocked. very few of them had any time at all to talk with us, and indeed, we were very circumspect about getting in the way of their work because this, for them, is work. it isn't a media event. it is a -- an event in which people are saying farewell to their loved ones. if they are able to get into the crematorium at all. i spoke to one individual who was burying -- or rather burning a friend because his family had been unable to attend. this is what he told me. so, who are you saying good-bye to here? >> actually, he's my friend. he was my childhood friend, school friend, but i just
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learned that he was in the hospital so i reached the hospital and he is no more now. >> reporter: why is his family not here? >> family is also in the covid, actually. his wife is outside there. he is also coronavirus positive. the children are also corona positive. brother also, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, positive. >> reporter: so clearly there are large numbers of people who are simply being burned after passing away in their own homes, bypassing the health system and that may indicate why the numbers of dead are probably almost certainly indeed drastically underestimated. alisyn, >> i want to say that sam gave us a glimpse into something that no other network has, to be able
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to get that close and see the horror up close is remarkable. our thanks to sam for that. up next, we will go live to elizabeth city, north carolina, about a decision just being made concerning the deputies involved in the death of andrew brown jr. stay tuned for that. did you know you can go to libertymutual.com to customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need? really? i didn't-- aah! ok. i'm on vibrate. aaah! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
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♪ ♪ ♪ discover new lines— in the stylish toyota highlander and 36 mpg highlander hybrid. toyota. let's go places. fatal shooting in elizabeth city, north carolina by local sheriff deputies. we just learned a decision has been made regarding some of the deputies involved in the killing of andrew brown jr. brian todd is on the scene for us. brian, what you have learned?
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>> reporter: the sheriff of the county, tommy wooten, he has released the names of the seven deputies on scene behind me during the shooting of andrew brown, and he said four of the seven deputies did not discharge their weapons, and it was obvious four deputies never fired their weapons and deserved to be reinstated to active duty, and he narrowed the list down to three deputies involving those shooting, and it's daniel meads having the rank of investigator, and robert morgan, who has the rank of deputy sheriff and has been with the department since december of 2016, and aaron lewellyn, still on administrative leave, according to the sheriff these were the
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deputies that discharged their weapons in the shooting of andrew brown, and four other deputies have been placed back on active duty. victor? >> i'll take it, brian. thank you very much for those developments. please keep us posted. breaking news continues now as president biden is in georgia to start selling his ambitious economic plan to the people and meet with former president jimmy carter. we're live. green grass.ll, everything else just seems... slow. it's lawn season. let's get to the yard. we made usaa insurance for members like martin. an air force veteran made of doing what's right, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started.
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top of a new hour. hello, i am alisyn camerota. >> and president biden is planning to transform america, a plan he laid out in his joint address to congress last night. he's doing it with the help of an old friend.

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