tv CNN Newsroom With Alisyn Camerota and Victor Blackwell CNN April 28, 2021 11:00am-12:00pm PDT
he's been at the center of a criminal investigation. giuliani denies any wrongdoing, has not been charged, but this underscores and suggests, i should say the months-long probe is advancing. >> cnn report kara scannell, and evan perez are following the story. federal investigators tried and failed in the past to obtain a search warrant. what hank ed. >> reporter: that's the question we're trying tots to. the last time this request was made, which was in the closing months of the previous administration, the deputy attorney general jeff rosen and some of the other top officials of the justice department, they decided that there wasn't enough evidence. they viewed the case wasn't as strong as prosecutors in new
york thought, alisyn and victor. here's the issue. the center of this case is what's known as a fara case, the foreign agents registration act, a law the justice department has had trouble with. there's been years-long struggle to try to enforce the law. there's been a new efforts since the mueller investigation to do more enforcement of this law. the question prosecutors have struggled with is when rudy giuliani was working with ukrainians as to drum up dirt on joe biden and his family, whether that was being done, you know, with foreign officials, or whether he was working for the president, whether he was acting as the personal lawyer of the former president. so that's going to be a big thing that you can bet former president, his lawyers will probably get involved, because
did these types of raids raise immediate question about attorney-client privilege. all of that will probably have to get reviewed even before it gets to the investigators of the fbi who are working this case. >> of course, we know they're likely to find a lot of what they're looking for potentially and maybe more. kara scannell, what did investigators obtain in this raid? >> reporter: well, victor, according to sources, prosecutors had gotten the search warrant, that they had to go through all these steps to show they had enough evidence for probable cause in order to obtain the search warrant for many materials. as evan and i have reported, they were looking to obtain electronic devices. that's one thing they wanted to look into, to see what communications giuliani was having with other people. we expect that would have been part of this search warrant today. you know, one of the things the prosecutors here are looking to determine is, you know, whether giuliani had violated the
f.a.r.a. law. they had made this effort earlier with the trump justice department. they got a lot of pushback, so the question is, did they obtain new evidence? or is the biden justice department more favorable to this? it all has to do with the investigation that began with lev parnoff. now, this is one of the these investigations where people have different views of the strength of the evidence and the strength of bringing a case under the statute. that's one of the reasons there was a lot of discussion in the last administration, so the question is, did they obtain new evidence that makes it stronger? or is this finally them being able to execute and see if they can get additional evidence to support the charges that they're exploring here. we have not yesterday heard from giuliani's attorney.
we understand that fox news that says that giuliani will speak on a radio show in just about an hour, so we'll hear more from giuliani and his reaction to the search warrant executed early this morning. >> victor, you talked about how this couldn't happen under the trump doj. whether it was a lack of i have had oar something political, we don't know. now merrick garland is in charge. could it be that simple? >> it could be that simple. as kara was pointing out, this is a complicated thing. one of the things that happened in the previous administration was that when this matter became before rosen and some of the other officials, rosen was so concerned about this and about the possibility of these types of raids on attorneys that he set a whole new set of rules,
set a whole new hurdles that prosecutors would have to meet in order to get approval for this. he required that it get approval from the deputy attorney general. there's a new deputy attorney general lisa monaco is now the deputy attorney general. under this memo that rosen put in place at the end of december, she would have had to sign off on this raid. you know, again, a lot of people i think for good reason are raising the issue of politics. under the previous administration, bill barr would intervene with things to do with the president and there were questions whether he was doing it for political reasons, and those are legitimate questions. we don't know if it's simply a fresh set of eyes, or it's just simply the fact they needed to get this so they can try to pursue this case they're looking at. >> evan perez in washington,
kara scanell in new york, thank you. and know eli hoenig, and andrew mccabe. >> andrew, let's start with you. what does a raid like this one today say about this investigation and where it's headed? >> alisyn, it says a lot. it delivers a very strong and concerning message to mr. giuliani. i'm sure he's receiving it loud and clear. what the search warrant at the residence signifies is the shift in an investigation from what may have been a very quiet, subtle covert effort to maybe identify witnesses, maybe talk to cooperators, to assemble facts to build toward a probable cause determination for a search want. now we're past that. we have taken a very overt and very public step. prosecutors and agents ultimately -- not right away
because of the attorney-client privilege issues -- but ultiult ultimately will have a lot of material to go through and will put a fine point on this investigation. it becomes hand-to-hand combat for the prosecutors and the attorneys for mr. giuliani. >> talk to us about the foreign agent registration act. potentially what could this mean for charges for rudy giuliani, and if they find other evidence in this search, what would be ahead for the former president's personal attorney. >> if you are lobbying on behalf of a foreign country or foreign interest -- here the agency is ukraine -- you have to officially register as a foreign lobbyist. if you don't do that, it's a federal crime. it's unusual, not like rob rid or extortion, or something we see every day. keep in mind rudy giuliani was
implemented -- not charged but implicated in the case that involved funneling hundreds of thousands of foreign illegal contributions to pro-trump campaign organizations. it happens all the time that you get a search warrant based on probable cause, as a prosecutor you have to tell the judge we have probable cause a certain crime was committed and there's evidence in this area, but it happens all the time you look for evidence of crime a and find evidence you never expected of crimes b, c and d. >> this is the sect time, as you know, andy, this has happened with president trump's personal attorney. so this is generally unpressed t -- unprecedented for the feds to raise an attorney's office and/or home, because often those things are privileged, but
obviously this has happened. it happened with michael coheaven during the trump administration, and now with rudy giuliani. so i decided i would call michael cohen to see if he could shed any light on what rudy giuliani is feeling. i will quote him -- rudy is in trouble, he knows it, this is just the beginning. as to what rudy is feeling right now -- because michael cohen has been through it -- it's look being blindfolded, being spun fast, and told to run north. in other words, you don't know what's about to happen. >> would you say that's what rudy is feeling? >> i think that's a great description. who would know better than michael colen. though this seems to be a common occurrence with former president trump, to have your attorneys' residence the subject of a search warrant, it's exceedingly uncommon for most people to have
take place. there's high bars in the justice department to get a warrant for attorneys. you can be sure that the southern district of new york has presented not only enough evidence to finally get this search want through the jurisdiction department, but they have convinced a judge that there is probable cause to believe there's evidence of a crime in rudy giuliani's residence. that's a very serious thing. >> also, elie, in the cooperation with michael cohen, we've seen it in other cases as well, is this likely a case in which rudy giuliani is the big fish? or that there could be a cooperation agreement here for him to get to another one, namely the former president? >> well, federal prosecutors, and in particular the southern district of new york, the office
that executed this search want, that rudy giuliani used to lead in the 1980s, you are always looking up the chain, always looking for a more powerful target who you can go after. michael cohen ended up trying to cooperate after the search warrant on his home. will rudy giuliani make the same calculation? people do that a lot. if rudy giuliani calculates that he's looking at potential criminal charges or prison time that he doesn't want to do, people in that situation do choose to cooperate all the time. the rule of thumb is you want to cooperate up, you don't want to cooperate down. if you're a prosecutor and if rudy giuliani is willing to cooperate, then ire looking for thismgs to go to somebody more powerful than him, not less. >> do you think this is somehow more about the dealing with ukraine? >> i always agree with elie. his commentary is spot on.
that's the way the system works. as he said, you never cooperate down. you also never bring anyone in without giving them the chance to provide more information interest someone else, about more significant criminal activity. so the simple fact that they are really dialing in the crosshairs on rudy giuliani and upping the chances that at some point rudy giuliani decides to come in and sit down and have a very frank conversation with the prosecutors, everyone above him on the chain of command, or even around him in his former political connections should be very concerned about what comes out of those conversations. >> guys, this is a fascinating breaking news moment. thank you very much for helping us understand what is happening. we have more on the breaking news and reaction. plus a judge's decision in the body cam video of andrew brown's death. the family will get to see it, but there are restrictions,
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>> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ if you're just joining us, sources tell cnn that the federal investigators have executed a search warrant on the manhattan apartment of rudy giuliani, the ex-lawyer of former president trump. giuliani has been under federal investigation for his activity in ukraine. among the allegations, that he did some illegal lobbying for ukrainian officials while he was trying to get the nation for investigate joe biden, who was then the leading candidate against the former president at the time. he has not been charged and has
denied in the wrongdoing. let's talk about it with david challen chalian and abby philip. this is one of the moments where you think, what if donald trump still had twitter? clearly this is going to impact him. >> i'm sure we'll find out with a statement in our inboxes from his new office in mar-a-lago. this is a big deal. rudy giuliani has latched himself to donald trump in so many different ways. that part is not entirely a surprise, given all the things that giuliani has done that have raised a lot of concerns about whether he was being influenced by foreigners, as he was doing this work for donald trump, but trump is going to use this as a way of saying that this new administration is coming after him politically.
he is a big fan of the term witch-hunt. i almost bet you money that's what he's going to call this. we will not be surprised to hear what trump has to say on this eventually, but it doesn't change the underlying facts here, which is there's a real investigation happening involving giuliani, and it's very serious. there's no amount of rhetoric or spin that will change what investigators perhaps will find as a result of their executing the search warrant. david, i think this comes during the week in which republicans are having their legislative retreat, trying to coalesce around a legislative message to the country to regain the majority in 2022, and that comes a discussion of ukraine and rudy giuliani to the headlines at the wrong time for the message they're trying to sell. >> and what abby is just
describing, a former president who is going to drive up the volume on grievance politics, which is his trading card, right? and make this into -- or attempt to make this into a pitch partisan battle. here's the difference. the difference is donald trump is no longer president. it's not his hand-selected appointed attorney general that he's going to try and apply some political pressure to here. when joe biden was choosing attorney general, you may recall, part of the debate about whether it should be merrick garland, or someone with more political experience, like doug jones from alabama, while garland is seen by both republicans and democrats as a real straight shooter through all his years on the bench and political pressure is probably something he will be pretty impervious to. so while rudy giuliani and donald trump may go back to that
playbook of saying this is a pure biden administration partisan witch-hunt, the fact that merrick garland is at the top of the justice department, he was put there so that kind of argument would likely not gain traction. >> so, abby, in july of 2018, right after michael cohen's home and office were raided by federal investigators, and he of course also was personal attorney for president trump, i sat down with rudy giuliani for a long interview. he at that point talked about what happened happened to michael cohen and what he saw as the moral to that story. >> when you're lying, there's always a trap for you. >> when you're lying, there's always a trap for you. he felt like michael cohen just went too far. it's interesting to think back in retrospect on those things.
>> it's very interesting. first of all, the fact that two of the president's lawyers, personal lawyers have now been the subject of this kind of extraordinary search warrant is amazing and remarkable, in and of itself. but what happened with michael cohen, he turned into a cooperator with the federal government, as a part of what happened after that read, i don't know that that will happen with rudy giuliani. rudy giuliani really wants to protect himself, and he needs donald trump to do that. so i think both trump and giuliani need each other very much. i think that's probably why you're going to see giuliani taking a different strategy from michael cohen, after a very similar extraordinary raid, because giuliani needs the protection of presidential privilege. he only gets that if he remains in the good graces of former president trump. >> david, what do we know about
the degree to which the former president and rudy giuliani still communicate? >> i don't know the depths of their communication. they obviously still have a relationship. it's not as if rudy giuliani was somehow shunned from trump's orbit. i don't know how often they speak, but abby is right to note that this is somebody who benefits from staying in donald trump's good graces, and there's no indication, even after many in trump's orbit were very unhappy with the way rudy giuliani was handling the election challenges in the aftermath of the 2020 election and leading up to the january 6th insurrection, there was a real divide in trump-world of the benefit of giuliani versus the costs of having giuliani around, but the relationship between giuliani and trump remained intact.
>> thank you both. of course, we'll continue our coverage of the breaking news on the raid of giuliani's apartment. he's expected to speak about this soon. plus a judge denies media requests to publicly release body cam video in the death of andrew brown, but he is allowing some people to see it soon. we'll talk to someone who has been very close to the brown family, throughout this, the mother of eric garner. is skincare from around the world better than olay? olay regenerist faced 131 premium products, from 12 countries, over 10 years. olay's hydration was unbeaten every time. face anything. find out more at olay.com
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we are also following breaks news out of elizabeth city, north carolina, and the fatal shooting of andrew brown, jr.. a judge has denied the media's request to publicly release the body cam video. it looks like the family will get to see more of the footage. so they'll see more than the 20 seconds they were allowed to see yesterday? >> that's right. they're going to see a lot more than that. it will be one family member. that's because special superior court judge jeffrey foster basically ruled in part there was a compelling reason for the family to see what is on these body cam reportings. so he ruled that just one family member, an dry brown's son, he will be able to see five body
cam recordings of what happened last wednesday. he ordered the release in no less than 30 days and no more than 45 days. there was a request by the media to have those recordings released to the public. that request was denied. there are a lot of other significant developments that took place in the courtroom as well. we learned a lot more about what may have been happened last wednesday. the d.a. basically arguing brown's car allegedly made contact with the deputies twice before those deputies opened fire. the d.a. arguing that brown's card made contact once when he backed up, and then made contact again when he moved forward. basically this ruling, alisyn, was met with mixed reaction by both sides. >> let's not get distracted.
an innocent man was gunned down, shot in the back of the head, vehicle riddled with bullets from the rear. i heard statements being made, well, he might have hit the deputies, or we might have did that. well, show us the video. show us the tape. >> we're going to continue to do everything we can to be transparent to the community. i have to respect the judge's wishes. we're going to following north carolina law. we do have some disclosures we'll try to do here. >> reporter: so is this the outcome you were hoping for? >> not totally, not. >> what would have been the ideal outcome? >> physical release. >> reporter: for what? >> public transparency. >> reporter: again, only going to be releasing to a family
member. that will be in about 30 days from now. victor? >> jason carroll, thank you solve. gwen car is the mother of eric garner, who was killed during a choke hold by a former new york police officers. she has been spending time with the brown family. so, mrs. carr, thank you for your time. first, your reaction to the decision by this judge? >> um, i think the decision is very disrespectful to the family. first of all, now that they're saying that they're going to let them see more than 20 seconds, which is a disgrace, 20 seconds of a video where there was at least seven or eight body cams, why would it take 30 to 45 days? there's so many discrepancies in this case. one of the people -- one of the officers who were shooting has sin retired. two quit. the others are on administrative
duty. can you tell me this doesn't stink? now they want to take 45 days. what are they going to do in the 45 days or 30 days that they can't show you now? >> so, from my understanding, after watching the hearing this morning, is they will allow a family member and one north carolina bar attorney to watch the attorney within ten days, but that has to be redacted to blur the faces of the officers, name beige, no identifying information and clipping off conversations on either end, four body cams, a cruiser cam, and potentially within 30 to 45 days release to the public to hold off and continue an investigation. that's what i gleaned from the judge today. let me ask you about one element we heard from the d.a. you know, we've had heard from the family's attorneys, what they saw in the video, the
narrative. this is what the state is saying happened on that video also. let's watch. >> as it backs up, it does make contact with law enforcement officers. at this point the car is stationary, there is no movement, and officers are positioned around the car. the next movement of the car is forward, is in the direction of law enforcement and makes contact with law enforcement. it is then and only then that you hear shots. >> now, does that change at all your assessment of what the family attorney says -- >> are they showing this? i'm not seeing this. are they showing you the video parts of the movement as they're saying? >> no, and that's part of the point. they're not showing it. >> well, then the only way that -- if they're going truthful, show us the video. why do you have to redact the
faces and the guns of the people who actually murdered that man? that's all a cover-up. that's what it seems to me. i know cover-up. my son was murdered seven years ago, and there was big cover-up. you can smell cover-up when there's a cover-up. that's exactly what this is. first of all, if they were being truthful, they would have shown the family the body cams from the very beginning. why do you need time? it looks like you want to doctor them or show exactly what you want them to see. it's not right. it's not right. they have some crazy laws there. >> you know, it's been at least five years since you stood with congressman hakim jeffries to support a bill in your son's name. then there is the justice for breonna taylor act. there's the george floyd in policing act, named for all
these victims who is have lost their lives at the hands of police. tonight president biden lieutenants appeal to the senate to pass the george floyd policing act. what is your appeal to the members of congress to pass that legislation? >> yes, they should pass that legislation, because actually that legislation is a continuation of the legislation that we have in new york city, new york state, sorry. if we get national laws, then things like this would be curb. right now every state has their own law. they do what they want. they murder the citizens, and then they're so disrespectful to the families and to the family's lawyers once this tragedy happens. it should not be state-to-state law. some of these states have laws back from 1920.
>> mrs. gwen carr, listen, i've watched and listened to you over the last seven years after the loss of your son. you have stood with these families, and now another one, and i thank you for their time. i notice they are grateful for your time as well. thank you so much. >> you're welcome. just too many families. they're all part of this club that none of them ever wanted to be in, and these moms who never intended to be activists, but who have had to learn all of the laws and how to find their voice. >> lucy mcbeth after her son jordan davis was killed, ran for congress and now she's in her second term. we'll see and hear what the president has to say about it tonight. meanwhile, rudy giuliani is expected to speak shortly. it will be his first comments
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visit petmeds.com today. moving forward on our breaking news, federal officials ra raiding rudy giuliani's apartment, marks a stunning turnabout. he was the associate attorney general, one of highest positions in the justice department. >> cnn's john avlon joins us now. he was giuliani's chief speechwriter. >> let's separate the personal from the political. i worked for rudy giuliani a long time ago. therefore, i care about him as a person. i know him. i'm proud of the work we did in city hall. one of the tragedies of this sort of self-inflicted opera,
which is how he likes to think about his life in some respects, is he was a legendary prosecutor, before he was mayor of new york. there's a genuinely tragic twist that the southern district 6 new york, the division he led and really broke the back of the mob under his leadership, is now investigating him. politically, it's no secret that he and i have had profound differences, but this is not a political calculation. i'm sure that rudy will say, as his lawyer has already said, that this is thuggery, this is politicized, you don't typically raid someone's apartment at dawn for investigating a fara violation. that being said, the attorney general apparently pumped the breaks on the investigation, and now with garland in charge, this may be a removing of that particular muzzle.
no crimes have been concretely alleged, but the fact they had to get a subpoena from a judge, as rudy well knows, is serious. this is a serious turn for a man rightly known as america's m mayor, who led new york new york city 20 years ago in 9/11. >> not only did he speak with investigators, he testified in congress, wrote a book, does interviews, because you know him personally, do you expect that rudy giuliani would ever do that as michael cohoen? >> no. there's fundamental differences between rudy giuliani and michael cohen. i think michael cohen realized that loyalty with donald trump is a one-way street. his entire career has been acting an consiglieri of
donald trump. in the case of rudy giuliani, than donald trump ever did. he has sacrificed his reputation almost entirely by being a loyalist. he did not get the jobs he wanted in the administration. instead he became his lawyer. that led him down a path that is apparently being investigated. and quite a serious one. i think he should be judged in his entire career before this chapter. >> and we expect to hear from him very soon on this raid. and "new york times" is record -- reporting his new york office as well.
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for nearly 50 years, joe biden has been a spectator when a president makes an address to congress, a joint session. now in just a few hours, it will be his turn. not behind, not in front but at the podium for his first address to the joint session of congress. it will mark his first 100 days in office. president biden will call for
another $1 trillion public investment, this time towards free education, child care, paid family leave. >> this joint session will look very different than previous ones with a much smaller audience because of the pandemic. for the first time, two women will be seated behind the president. that's house speaker nancy pelosi and vice president kamala harris. cnn's phil mattingly joins us. beyond those optics, what do we expect to hear from president biden tonight? >> it's day 99 of the presidency. obviously one day short of that 100-day mark that no one is sure why it became an official thing. i think that means the president is most certainly going to look back at his first few months in office and what he and the white house officials believe he accomplished. on the top of the list, 215 million vaccine doses, and the press forward. when you talk to white house officials, they talk about how the president is going to look back and say, this worked.
government can work. allow me to keep working. the idea being those significant -- very ambitious economic proposal he has on the table. $2.25 trillion already unveiled and tonight he'll be rolling out the $1.8 trillion proposal white house officials refer to as the human infrastructure plan. for child care, universal pre-k, free community college, anti-poverty tax credits. very ambitious democratic priorities the president will put on the table. the idea not necessarily wanting to narrow in on one or two legislative items but the big idea government can work, the president believes the first 100 days have shown that and he wants to continue to do that with these big, ambitious legislative proposals in the weeks and months to come. >> we're also getting this information in that the influential democrat, senator joe manchin is, quote, very uncomfortable with the cost of the president's plans. so, does the white house plan to respond to that? >> reporter: you know, i think, look, this is the reality right
now. it's not just joe manchin on one side. you also had, i'm told, several prominent progressive fiercely lobbying the white house for two items that didn't get into the proposal at all, talking about the expansion of medicare and prescription drug plan. the white house is already hearing it from both sides. i think underscores the reality of the moment. everyone looks at the $1 trillion coronavirus relief package and says, that got through pretty easily. president put $1.9 on the table and the president got 1.9. that's not real life for legislation, especially dealing with tax policy, energy policy, health policy as well. in is a thicket. senator manchin is a key vote. every single democrat in the majority they hold 50/50 with president harris is a tiebreaker. i think it will take months when it comes to this plan but the white house keenly aware,
members on both sides should be somewhat happy if they want this to move forward. >> thank you for the preview and all of that context. be sure to join cnn tonight for special coverage of the presidential address. jake tapper, abby phillip, dana bash, wolf blitzer lead our coverage at 8:00 p.m. eastern right here on cnn. back to our breaking news coverage. federal agents executing a search warrant on rudy giuliani's apartment. what they're looking for, what it means for giuliani and for his former client, donald trump.
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i'm victor blackwell. >> i'm alisyn camerota. we are continuing to follow breaking news out of new york. any minute we expect to hear from former trump attorney rudy giuliani following a raid of his manhattan apartment earlier today where, as far as we know, at least electronic devices were seized by agents. the former new york mayor has