tv At This Hour With Kate Bolduan CNN April 22, 2021 8:00am-9:00am PDT
dana bash will host the climate crisis tomorrow night, 10:00 on cnn. >> we'll be watching. thank you for watching this morning. we'll see you tomorrow morning. >> hello, everyone. thank you so much for joining me. on this day and at this hour, there are real questions about where policing in america goes from here. multiple communities across the country are in mourning and grappling with really tough questions following deadly encounters between police and people of color. in minnesota, daunte wright is laid to wrest in just a few hours. two week after a police officer shot and killed him during a traffic stop. that happened miles away from where george floyd was killed nearly a year ago. minnesota police say former officer kim potter meant to draw
her taser but instead grabbed her handgun when she shot wright. potter is charged with second degree manslaughter. ahead of the funeral today, wright's aunt spoke with cnn. her pain still so raw. >> today we close that casket on my nephew. this is the last day that we kefer touch, with he can ever see him. we want to make sure that other families don't have to go through this. i mean, come on. why do we have to keep going through burying our babies? i sat up all night staring at the ceiling thinking oh, my god. this is really happening. why do we have to keep going through this? >> miguel marques is joining me this morning. what you are hearing there this morning? >> look, this city, this state
has just been a whipsaw of emotion. >> you have the verdict in the derek chauvin meurder of george floyd earlier this week. the federal government announcing a practice and policy investigation into the metropolitan police department here in minneapolis. so there's just a wide range of feelings and emotion in this city right now. we heard from a little bit there telling us who they are burying to day and why his death is so indicative of what the african-american community is facing in minneapolis right now. >> daunte was a shining light. he was shining light. he was loved. he was a man in the making. he was somebody. he was human.
>> for the people to protect and serve us, you take an oath to protect me! so protect my children. to protect ben, to protect everybody. at the end, we shouldn't end up six feet deep. >> and tend of the day, that is the sentiment. why is it for african-americans is the use of force the gun comes out first? why is it maximum use of force for african-americans? you know, his attorney for the family of daunte wright argue that's even a takes sers wasn't necessary. even pulling him over for expired tags during a pandemic wasn't necessary. but it's those every day transactions between african-americans and the police department and when they do have those transactions often, police go to the gun first. to the most extreme level of
force first rather than sort of treating them with equality. and that's what it's all about. kate? >> mig uel, thank you so much. this tension between police and communities that they serve is under the microscope right now. but also in washington where there is actually some rare hope that lawmakers will be able to reach a deal on a police reform bill. tim scott is one of the lawmakers leading the talks, he says that progress is being made on one of the biggest sticking points which is qualified immunity for police officers. let's go to our reporter on kpoi capitol hill who is tracking all. this i hesitate to even use the words optimism or hope when it comes to capitol hill. can you tell us where things stand right now? >> look, there is movement. whether they can get a deal and whether that deal can become law or separate questions altogether. but talks are intensifying. there is hope on both sides that
a deal can be reached within weeks, potentially by the time of joshlg floyd's death anniversary on may 25th. but what tim scott the republican from south carolina is floating is a change on how to deal with so-called qualified immunity that protects police officers are civil litigation. they want to do away with that legal standard. republicans resisted that. what tim scott is proposing, instead of having police officers sued in civil court that police departments could be civilly liable. now not only democrats are in favor of this. some on the left like cortez pushed back on this idea. some on the right like josh holly told me he is skeptical about this approach. sometimes as a recipe and now for success. but the negotiators are still talking about. this karen bass who is a democrat from california who is involved in these talks, said yesterday that she is z-- that s not enough for her. there is also other sticking
points. that is something that republicans resisted in the past. while there is progress on others, others need to resolve. the republican approach is to incentivize state and local police departments to make change onz their own. democrats pushed for more national standards such as outlawing choke holds. still an open question. at least talks are picking up pace. >> they do seem to be serious and well intentioned talks between democrats and republicans on this. which is also unusual these days. good to see you. thank you very much. senator, let's talk about the police reform bill in just a second. first, you're home today to attend daunte wright's funeral. we heard from his aunt. her pain unimaginable. why is it important for you to be home for this? what will you be saying to his family today?
what was daunte all about? why did they love him? in this moment, kate, i have too many times talked to the parents who lost babies. it is absolutely heartbreaking for me to be here is to be here in solidarity and in peace with them. of course my job is not only to be here when people are mourning the death of a loved one. i was struck by what she said a moment ago. she said why do we have to keep going through this and burying our babies? when i go back to washington, i'm working as hard as i can to make sure we get true reform. i mean to be able to change the systems that end up creating this epidemic of violence that
is killing black americans especially black men through law enforcement. >> you know, just focus -- staying in minnesota for a second, mine, the lieutenant governor, she wrote recently that for her, she is grappling with the stark words that minnesota is a place where it is not safe to be black. brooklyn center's mayor said that he agrees not only does he agree but he is experiencing that personally, he said. is this the place you call home and love, is it a place that is not safe to be black? >> i heard this sentment expressed many, many times by black minnesotans who tell me that when they see the lights of a police car that it sends them a sense of fear and foreboding rather than a sense that they're going to be protected. you know, i love my state.
but i also can see that my state is home to some of the worst disparities between white minnesotans and black minnesotans, brown minnesotans, all minnesotaians of color. we have to see that. this is about police reform and it's also about the fact that homeownership for black families in my state is among the loetest in the country. these are the challenge that's we have to see in order to address. >> homeownership is something i have heard it is holding people back and munn minute which is a huge issue. so let's get to the conversations going on in congress about the bill. the bill that passed the house. it hasn't gone anywhere in the senate so far. are you okay of breaking this bill into smaller parts?
>> you want to say how grateful i am to senator booker and senator scott and karen bass. these negotiations are at a really delicate place as senator booker said. we shouldn't make perfect the enemy of the good as we're trying to take steps and make progress. it is really important that what we do is meaningful and not just a spit and a polish as my mother used to say. we have to do something important. it makes it easier to hold police officers accountability, it's important that we stick to -- stick to making real chaufrpg there. >> so if modifying or getting rid of qualified immunity, what's in discussion is modifying qualified immunity, if that is not part of the final language that is put in front of you, senator, is this effort a failure in yaur eyes? ? >> i see that as an incredibly
part of this whole endeavor. i won't say what i'm going to do or not do. it's important this is real and meaningful change. i think qualified immunity is real and meaningful change. i'm also -- i think as you were just saying a moment ago, this is actual serious negotiation here. democrats and republicans trying to find common ground and i want to support that effort in every way that i can. >> senator, thank you. thank you for being here. thank you for your candid conversation always. >> thank you, kate. >> coming up for us, a bold move for the climate. the big changes that president biden wants the country to make right now. also ahead. daunte wright is being laid to rest today. two more communities are on edge after police shootings. is policing going to change in america? the new police chief of madison, wisconsin, joins us.
it is the crisis of our time. that is how president biden has described the climate crisis. this morning president biden is to use a phrase essentially, putting his money where his mouth sfrment putting the united states squarely back into the fight against the climate crisis setting an ambitious new goal. that the united states will cut green house gas emissions nearly in half by the end of the decade which is just nine years from now. biden this morning is also calling on other world leaders to come together in the face of this threat. listen. >> the signs are unmistakable. the science is undeniable. the cost of inaction is mounting. the united states is awaiting no nation can solve this crisis on our own as you fully understand. all of us, all of us and
particularly those of us that represent the world's largest economies, we have to step up. >> bill weir joins me now. bill, you never hold back in calling nonsense when you see empty promises and empty language from politicians when it comes to climate. i'm not saying that's what you're hearing from biden here. how hard is it going to be to meet this goal that he's laying out? >> we're entering the golden age of green washing instead of whitewashing our sins, corporations, green washing saying we're going to do all these things and then meeting the promises can be suspect. you have to start somewhere. before the u.s. can go to the moon, president kennedy had to say we're going to the moon within the decade. and this is sort of like launching 190 moon shots on 190 different countries at the same time. allies and enemies, little countries, big ones.
it's going to take a complete revolutionary change of everything we know is familiar. we need to come up with a concrete that can store carbon dioxide that you burn when you make concrete. you have to come up with a way to make steel from green hydrogen instead of dirty coal. 2%, less than 2% of american cars are electric. that has to go way up. then you have to power charge the cars with renewable sources. the whole new grid. it's very big. but it is amazing to see the world leaders, many at odds when it comes to foreign policies, actually talking about these shared goals. >> both china and russia are attending this virtual meeting hosted by the president at a moment when there is very clear and real tension and problems between these world leaders in particular in other realms, is this significant that they're taking part? >> he was saying that green
hills are made of gold. because we're not just talking about lives. we're talking about entire economies. you had putin talk about a carbon pricing plan he's going to test in one region of russia. now at the same time, china just added as much coal capacity as the rest of the world took off line last year. putin is chomping at the bit to start drilling in the arctic now that it's melting. we saw the brazilian president making very big promises. in the meantime, he is allowing illegal deforestation. but at least we're now moved from if sort of calling today a renewal of marriage vows after a four-year divorce from science. and moral obligation. now we stopped that conversation and now it's a debate over what to do about it. what kind of resources. what is the fairest way forward. >> it's not a renewal of force. it is a separation, bill.
>> child separation. >> that's good. good to see you, thank you so much as always. appreciate it. >> programming note for all of us. tomorrow -- tomorrow night dana bash will host a special town hall event. the climate crisis. she'll be joined by u.s. special presidential envoy john kerry and other white house climate team members. can you watch that on cnn at 10:00 p.m. eastern tomorrow. coming up for us today, why don't black people seem to have the equal right as white people to survive an encounter with police? that conversation is next. ♪ ♪ [ engines revving ] ♪
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more than american communities are on edge this morning following the deadly shootings of two black people at the hands of police. and in both cases, the investigations are under way and are complicated and answers aren't simple. at least at this moment. in columbus, ohio, protesters hit the streets last night to demand answers in the fatal police shooting of 16-year-old ma'khia bryant. she appeared to be trying to attack another girl with a knife n elizabeth city, north carolina, people are grieving and want to see body camera
footage after a police shot and killed andrew brown jr. while serving a warrant yesterday morning. investigations are under way in both shoot ings to figure out what happened. both incidents point to the big environment picture of strain between police and the communities that they serve at a time when policing in america is under the microscope. joining me right now for more on this is shawn barns, chief of police in madison, wisconsin. chief, thank you for being here. none of the conversations are easy. but they are extremely important. you have been outspoken that you think justice prevailed in the murder conviction of derek chauvin for murdering george floyd. you also said that things need to change. how do you do that's ai as poli chief? >> we need a national standard for the way we conduct business. our community expects that from us. we need to look at police reform
from the standpoint of imagining or reimagining what it means to have public safety. i think we can certainly do better when it comes to responding to crisis in the way we do that is to listen to our community and understand that they want a different level of justice than sometimes we may think. i had the opportunity to be invited by some community members to watch the verdict of the chauvin trial. one of the things i noticed is some citizens this their hands clasped. they were praying. they were hoping to have a guilty outcome. i looked and i discovered this is a great case. the prosecution did a good job. obviously the actions of the former police officer were against the law and against policy. yet, black americans didn't think that justice would happen for them. and we need to really take a serious look internally and figure out how can we fix this problem?
>> you are newish to this post as chief of madison. but this is a story and real question. this happened in madison, 2015. tony robinson, a teenager, unarmed, was shot and killed by a madison police officer. that set off days of protests but no charges were filed and that officer is, as far as i can see and read and have read is still on your police force. the family reached a settlement over this eventually. but is this what we're talking about? does this need to be looked at with fresh eyes, a fresh set of eyes after what we're talking about? >> you know, i think that any case involving a law enforcement officer and a use of deadly force should be investigated. not only internally but from an outside agency and in the case that you referenced, it was looked at by the u.s. justice department. but more importantly, we need to figure out how do we sprent these from happening again and
again and again? and our department we implemented the icat training model from the research forum. i think it's -- it should be a national standard for responding to people in crisis. i think we need to look not only at a first responder model, but a second responder model. we're looking at things in our police department where we'll have mental health officers, mental health professionals who will go on these crisis calls. the if you look at the george floyd incident, obviously, he was having some issues that day. who would have been best served to protect him and to ensure that he survived that incident? that's the thing that i think police chiefs should be focused on today. >> well, also a little bit about what you say is how do you prevent this from happening rather than getting people accountable on the back end. here is what is so hard for people to understand. why don't black people or any person of color seem to have the equal right to survive encounters with police?
one example being discussed a lot right now is white kid kyle rittenhouse walking right up to police during the protests in wisconsin can a huge gun strapped to his chest hanging from his chest. he had just shot people though it's unclear if the police knew that at the time. but they let him walk on by. and the other side of this, we have video after video of black people with no guns at all doing far less dying. what is going on here? >> absolutely. kate, you know, i'm a black man in america who happens to be a police chief. and i certainly do not wear this uniform every day. and i also have a black son. i have friends and family members who are in policing. but it's important to note that that's the question that should keep every police leader and manager up at night. we need national standards on how we deal with people when
noncompliant or in distress. last year i had an opportunity to go to selma, alabama. i wanted to learn more about the relationships between police and community. and myself and to other law enforcement professionals, one from arlington, texas and one from sacramento, california. we had an opportunity to learn about jackson and what happened on bloody sunday. and then we walked 54 miles from selma to montgomery. i know everyone can't do that. but i think police all over the country should find their own self discovery. so they understand that, of course, everyone wants to live and survive a police encounter. however, our number one, our number one goal should always be the preservation of life. even if it means we have to back away or let someone go for the moment. the preservation of life has to be our number one goal as we move forward. we are losing our have already lost the trust of many americans both black, white, and other
ethnicities. so we have to regain that trust kbhaf kbh by changing behaviors you see every day. we have to do this immediately. we can no longer wait. >> for the change to be enduring, it takes leaders. looking at you, chief. thank you so much. >> thank you. really appreciate your time. coming unfor us, with more people getting vaccinated, there are more questions about what people can and cannot do at this point. like, why are we still wearing mask outside? ♪ ♪ up to one million dollars. that's how much university of phoenix is committing to create 400 scholarships this month alone. if you're committed to earning your degree, we're committed to making it accessible. because we believe everybody deserves a chance. and sometimes one chance is all it takes to change everything. see what scholarship opportunities you may qualify for at phoenix.edu
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tln >> there is good news of progress in the nation's vaccine effort. the cdc says more than a third of all adults are now fully vaccinated. and president biden is touting he is hitting a new high, more than 200 million doses administered since he took office. but as more people get vaccinated, there are more questions about why guidelines are not changing fast enough for many people, really. no the only on what is safe to do once you're fully vaccinated but what you can now stop doing as more people get the shot. like what about having to wear mask outside? here's what the white house covid-19 adviser said about that on cnn yesterday.
>> i think they're in the process of putting together further guidance. they're not going to be as fast as everyone wants them to be. they want to study the data and make sure that they're not putting things out that they have to take back. i'm confident that over the next couple of weeks and months those questions will be answered. >> joining me for more on this is professor of medicine at ucsf and the associate division chief of infectious diseases. thank you for being here. so that is andy's explanation for why guidelines haven't been updated with regard to this. does this make sense to you? >> yeah. i mean, i think definitely it's going take a little while. but the reason that i and other infectious disease doctors have been really thinking about taking off that outdoor masks first is because in a way outdoor masks were the least of our public health interventions that made sense. you know, really if we think
about the three covid-19 interventions, masking, distancing and ventilation and nothing is as good as it gets in terms of vent lags as being outside. >> i think this is interesting and also doubly interesting because back in april of 2020, you co-authored one of the first papers that called for universal masking. i'm curious what you've seen that is now changing your mind. >> yes. so masking right now in the indoor setting is still going to be indicated until anyone who wants to get a shot can get a shot in the united states. but there is sort of a -- a lot of accumulating data about how low the risk is outside. for example, there is a study in china that looked at 7,324 infections really careful contact tracing and only one was connected to the outside. there was another study, ire land, just a couple weeks ago, over 232,000 infections in that
country and again careful contact tracing, fw tracing. and lots of other data. university of canterbury analysis, ucsf analysis. shows the risk of outdoor transmission, just because you have that advantage of literally vent ventilation is so low that the university of canterbury you are view said we should encourage people to be outside not with masks. actually, they never recommended masks outside when they put them together the december 2020 guidelines unless you are in packed spaces, like a rally, really close to each other, yelling, that's where we recommend masks outside. >> so this is really important. because all along the monday tra has been, i think it should be which is follow the science. what i'm hearing you say is that the science is following us to a place of this isn't following
the science anymore. because it is just -- it's more nuanced than that. >> it's just more nuanced. and what you said is really key about this question of nuance. right? because there has been a complicated relationship with mask being in the united states. there just has. i personally gotten many letters that i wrote about, for example, double masking and the advantages of that indoors. and so when you have a complicated public health intervention, you want to follow the data sort of to a tee. and just like we've all seen, march 2020, we had to shut everything down. we didn't eastven want to touch surfaces. things happen because we didn't have enough dat yachlt we realize that surface transmission is not a thing. and we shouldn't be disinfecting to this degree. we realize that masks are important. we didn't say that at the beginning. but with a lot of accumulating data, we realize they're important. and now the science is telling us outside this is just a virus
that cannot spread outside readily. that means even if we want to follow the science, we can already be lifting outdoor mask mandates. we also kind of, you know, do this a lot. we sometimes have to change. >> well then this is -- i'm kind of what i'm wondering is, you know, if you look at how well or not well america's done in terms of following public health gud lines through this pandemic compared to other countries, is it just we can't really handle nuance? >> i push back on that question of us not hand willing nuance. this is because i'm an hiv doctor. and we always say if this, then that. the if two people are positive together, then do this. if you're one negative and one positive, do this. i think that is a public health question that we cannot follow the guidelines if we put in more nuance tiered messaging. if you're vaccinated together, you don't have to wear a mask. but i actually think that doesn't give the american public
credit enough. and this is pretty simple. carry a mask with you all the time. absolutely. you have to go inside. grab that mask. put that back on. but it's prettisome am. people know when they're outside. to say that when you're outside, that's when it's not necessary unless you're in packed circumstances. >> for me, it's like hope on the horizon. we're moving out of this. you can do some more normal things especially if you get vaccinated. doctor, fascinating. thank you for coming on. >> thank you. coming up for us, friends have called it joe biden's superpower. how the president has been forced though to become the nation's grief counsellor so many times already.
president biden hasn't even hit the 100 day mark. yet in that relatively short time, he has again and again had to step into the role as the nation's grief counsellor. he is no stranger to personal tragedy, of course. he speaks candidly about that. but it is remarkable how many times he has been forced to lean on that, draw from his own experience with grief in just these first few months. this week he called the family of george floyd after his killer was convicted of murder. >> i think my dad is going to change the world. we're going to sftart to change now. >> that's right. >> you're an incredible family. i wish i was there to put my arms around you. >> and earlier this moshgs it wasn't only his words but gentle comfort with the children of
fallen capitol police officer billy evans during his memorial. >> the day will come when you have that memory and you smile before you bring a tear to your eyes. i promise you it's going to come. your son, your husband, your brother, your dad was a hero. >> and also just before that, he was in atlanta trying to comfort the grieving families of the mass shooting there. >> i know they feel that there is a black hole in their chest and being sucked into and things will never get better. but our prayers are with you. and i assure you, the one you lost will always be with you. >> joining me right now for more on this is staff writer from "the new yorker" and a thou of "joe biden, the life, the run, and what matters now." everyone, they called this
ability to comfort and connect with people in their loss his superpower. what do you call it? >> well, it is in a way . >> well, in a way it's a reluctant super power. when he got into politics he didn't want to be known as someone with a personal acquaintance with grief but in the foreign policy or judiciary committee. it took him a while. he was young. it took him a while people expected something from him because they looked at him and said you've been through this, you've survived it. and over the years he set up language of healing that he's used in private and now increasingly in public. i talk to people over the year who's had all kinds of experience with him they have been through something terrible and he says very practical things, like, keep a pad and paper next to your bed because you will be able to mark off at
the end of the day small measures of progress as you fight your way out of grief. it's that first-hand experience that not a lot of presidents have had or willing to talk about and bring into the public conversation. >> evan, he's had to do this so many times, dozens of eulogies in such a short presidency so far, i mean, does this weigh on him? >> it does. he carries this stuff very close to the surface. you seen in the remarks to the family of officer evans at the capitol and talked in personal terms, i want to put my arms around you, as he said to the floyd family, this is braided into his understanding what it means to be in public life and the hard thing to do, the thing he tries to do is to say to people take this pain and make it -- a word he uses a lot -- make it a source of purpose. at one point when he was
grieving over his son beaux he wrote a letter from kendrick who buried kennedy who buried four of his own children and he said take that loss and if do what that loss and do what that person didn't do. let's turn it into progress. so that this doesn't happen again. >> do you think it's so striking because he speaks to grief in such a personal way or because he's such a contrast with the president before him. >> clearly there's a personal contrast with the person before him. he was doing this joe biden as a candidate. i remember last summer talking to him who after the george floyd tape came out, he said after watching that video that hate hides and it can come
roaring back if someone in power gives it oxygen. he was very aware the prior occupant of the white house didn't use the language of grief or inhabit that space with the public and biden felt it was something people were hungry for and he began to talk about it as a candidate and he talks about it now. it's delicate. you can get it wrong and say things that feel like you're being politically opportunistic or if you say something bland like thoughts and prayers. people don't want that they want real humanity. >> you can't question his sincerity in these moments we see it over and over. thank you very much. coming up, capitol officer
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-- this morning a new allegation against the u.s. capitol police following the january 6th riot that an officer directed his unit to only look for, quote, anti-trump protesters. cnn ryan noble joining me now with more, what can you tell us? . >> this came up at a hearing at the house administration committee talking about the police response on january 6th, the chair of that committee is representative in california who referred tos this transmission that was caught from capitol
police to officers on the ground that were responding to the growing protests she said, quote, attention all units on the field we're will not looking for pro-trump in the crump only anti for pro-trump in the crowd only anti pro-trump looking for a fight. this not being the right-hand response given the crowd were overwhelmingly supporters of the former president of the capitol police did respond saying this was part of the transmission early in the day around 8:00 a.m. and what they were specifically looking for potential incidents, problems that could a rise. which is the reason they said to look for people who could be instigators starting trouble with the overwhelmingly pro-trump crowd. this is part of a growing issue house democrats are concerned about that capitol police didn't
take the threat from pro-trump supporters enough and led to them overwhelming the capitol and creating that massive security break down, so this is just the beginning of a much longer conversation on this topic. >> for sure, ryan, thank you so much for that update really appreciate it. and thank you all for joining us at this hour, john king picks up our coverage right now. ♪ ♪ hello to our viewers in the united states and around the world i'm john king in washington, thank you for sharing a busy news day with us. two new stories, hope for compromise in washington and congressional talks over police reform with negotiation over civil lawsuit protection against police officers accused of using excessive force. more reminder, sadistically, of the urgency of which conversation and for change, protest last night over another pair of fatal office