tv CNN Newsroom with Alisyn Camerota and Victor Blackwell CNN April 21, 2021 11:00am-12:00pm PDT
in central america and so -- but it's in process. we don't have enough to be confident to send it abroad now. i expect we'll be able to do that. >> are you expecting -- nasa launch on friday? all right. president joe biden speaking about reaches the 200 million dose threshold. hello. i'm victor blackwell, joined by alison camerota. we've been listening to the president announcing that achievement. 200 million. >> doctor anthony fauci will join us first. phil mattingly has been watching the press conference. what did you hear, phil? >> yeah, obviously the headline number, the ambitious goal of the president, doubled what he laid out during his inau
inauguration. about eight days before the 100-day mark, but i think what you heard from the president there, which i think is far more important than the 200 million number, is the idea the u.s. is entering a new phase. it underscores what i'm hearing a lot from administration officials, that the supply issue, the issue that the administration has been try to go confront and combat for the entirety of their first 90-some-odd days is no longer the key problem. there's enough supply for people to get shots. obviously every single state in america has opened up eligibility. there's 28 million doses going out ever week from the federal side. the bigger issue is people's willingness to get vaccinated. that was the big point of what you were hearing the president talk about. yes, vaccine hesitancy is an issue. it's one the white house has been work to go combat over the last several weeks. we've heard all about it in their efforts to deploy vaccines
into rural areas or underserved communities, but something you're hearing more and more, it's also younger americans, who maybe don't feel like their risk factors is enough to go out and get the vaccine immediately. that's why you heard the president talk about the paid incentives in place. there's a tax credit to basically give any employees paid leave not just to get vaccinated b. but to recover. it's already on the books. it was put in place several laws ago. it was extended in the salameri rescue plan. they're trying to get businesses to try to incentivize their employees, to try to urge or prod their employees to go get vaccinated. obviously it has the bigger picture purpose of getting as many vaccinated as possible, but the pitch, that for the companies to get back to normal,
for their business operations to get back to where they are pre-covid, it's requisite upon them to get their employees vaccinated. the president obviously using the words new face, next phase, that's where we're entering. there are hundreds of millions of people who have gotten their first dose. the supply is no longer the issue. the issue is people's willingness to go get vaccinated. dr. fauci is up with us next. dr. anthony fauci, and chief medical adviser to the president. dr. fauci, thanks for being with us. i want to start with the concept we just heard from phil, now shifting from demand outpassing supply, instead of now there are more vaccines available than there are people willing tore ready to take them. how do you combat that? we learned from the kaiser family foundation that we're at a tipping point in two to four weeks. >> certainly we need to get as
many people vaccinated as we possibly can as quickly as we possibly can. to get that veil and blanket of protection over the country, over the community and over the country. obviously there is an element of vaccine hesitancy or concern that we need to address. you know, the american people are smart. they can figure things out. we give them the data to show that, in fact, these vaccines are extraordinarily efficacious and effective in the real world of the community, and they're really quite safety. so the question is, when you're talking particularly what mattingly was talking about, young people, you appeal to them a couple of ways. first of all, it is quite true that if you're a young, healthy person, the chances of you're getting into serious trouble with this infection is really quite low. there's no doubt about that. but it's certainly not zero. it's a situation where what will
happen is you could get seriously ill. you see individuals like that all the time, but there's something else that's going on that's really important. that is, if you get infected and you do not get symptoms, but you do get virus in your nasopharynx, you might be walking around saying, what's the difference? but you could do inadvertently and innocently pass this infection on to someone else who could pass it on to someone else, who could then get into serious trouble from this infection. so since we're in the middle of a really historic pandemic, we've got torts are to realize we're all in this together. if you get infected and you pass the virus on to someone else, you could be causing harm to someone else. it's a combination of protecting yourself, your own personal
protection, but somewhat of a societal responsibility of an individual to make sure they don't help spread this outbreak. >> let me ask about allocation. if we're getting to a point where we're at the tipping point sometime next month, where the availability will -- the supply will outstrip demand, is now the time to allocate backsed on transmission rate instead of population, as governors? i'm thinking of governor whit -- whitmer in michigan, who are seeing a surge? >> we discuss those kinds of things all the time. we make decisions as a group. it's not ridgidity. we may get to that point, but
we're not there now, so we try to help the states by bringing people in there on the ground to help them with the identification, isolation, contact tracing, testing, making sure we can get the vaccine that is there expeditiously into the arms of people. if the situations reverses, then we'll take a look at that, because we are flexible in having severing -- everything on the table. >> on friday there will be the meeting about the johnson & johnson. the delivery is paused because of those few cases of blood clots, one death. you expect, i've read, that there would be a decision after that meeting to move forward with how to distribute the vaccine how do you build confidence again for people, who after the pause, are even shyer
than before when it was put on pause. >> the feeling of people are totally understandable. what you do is you present them with the facts when they hear the facts, they will make up their own minds. the facts are as follows -- this is an exceedingly rare complication. there's the original six, there may be a few more they found, but the original reason for the pause was six people out of about 7 million. that's less than one per million, which means the chances of you getting hit with lightning are greater than that happening. so that's the first thing. i look at it from the other side of the coin. the fact that the cdc and the fda paused for something so rare, should give you confidence that we take safety very, very seriously.
the fact that 7 million out of over -- -- have received at least one shot, so 120-plus million have received vaccinations that same surveillance system that was so sensitive to pick up those six women was looking at -- and there was no red flags of concern. if you really want to step back and look at the data, what it tells you is these vaccines are really very, very safe. >> the company that owns the plant stopped the products after concerns last month. the fda report we are reading today, the inspection concluded that there was no assurance that other batches have not been subject to cross-contamination. the concern there, will that
potentially push back any approval to move forward with the johnson & johnson vaccine? >> i don't think that's going to be a factor in whether or not the cdc and the advisories committee on immunization practices, and ultimately the fda, will make a decision. obviously, doses will not go out under the fda feels very confident that they are a-okay. but the decision of what to do with this vaccine as a vaccine product is not going to be influenced by that. it's going to be influenced by the data and safety, not what's going on there. you can be assured and the american public can be assured that no vaccines are going to go out of there unless the fda is quite confident in them. on masks, the guidance potentially, you've had some pretty heat the exchanges with members of congress on the question of, if you are
vaccinated, when can we stop wearing the masks in public? in grocery stores? movie theaters? what's the potential for the plausibility for transmission rate-based guidance? you know, states that have lower rates, can you now lift those mandates for states like michigan, pennsylvania, where we're seeing surges, you keep them in place. states didn't follow them. could that happen now? >> you're making a really good point. that's one of the reasons we live in a very large great country that is very heterogenous. you're quite rite. there's different sections of the country that have different dynamics of infection. not just me, but all the public health figure, the cdc and others who have many, many fine
epidemiologists, feel very strongly that if we get the level of infection down to below a certain level, and we'll know that, you'll see the infection rates start to drop. when you're in an area that has that degree with a risk of infection is so low, obviously you're going to see pulling back on many of the restrictive public health measures we are all want to go away. every one of us have covid-19 fatigue and we want to get back to normal. we want to make sure we don't pull back prematurely. if a particular region is really, really very low and doing really, really well, certainly i think there will be a differential in being able to say one can do certain things or not. that's always under consideration. we think about and talk about these things every single day, because we all want to get to the same goal -- get the level of infection really very, very low, get as many people
vaccinated as we possibly can, as quickly as we can, and let's start getting back to normal. >> now, considering the disparities between the transmission rates across the country, when can we expect some clarity, some guidance for those states that are doing exceedingly well with mitigating the spread of the virus? >> well, that would be according to the cdc recommendations. they have epidemiologists thinking about that, looking at the data in real time essentially every day. i can't give you a particular day when they will come out and say now we can do this, but you know, we already have the recommendations they made about masks, people who were ration nated, can congregate in a home with family who are also vaccinated, as well as those who are not vaccinated. you don't have to wear a mask, you can have physical contact. the cdc came out and said, even though we don't recommend you fly unless you necessarily have
to, however, if you do, the risk is considerably lower if you are vaccinated i fully expect, as the time goes by, hopefully sooner rather than later, the cdc will continue to come out with recommendations that would then pull back a bit on some of the restrictions, provided the level of infection starts going down, because i don't anticipate the cdc is going to be making recommendations to loosen things up when we're having an average of 60,000 infections per day, which is where we are right now. >> finally, new cdc ensemble forecast projects as many as 30,000 additional covid deaths over the next four weeks. why is that number so high where the president just announced 200 million doses in fewer than first 100 days, and still so
it's deaths per day. >> the deaths, as you know, are going down. we're still getting hospitalizations at a level that is troublesome. there's always a lag. people need to understand, if you look at three separate components, people getting inphetted, people in hospitals, and people dying. there's a lag between the infection, a few weeks the hospitalizations, will reflect an increase or a decrease in infections, and then a few weeks after that, the deaths will reflect the hospitalizations a few weeks later. you will still see deaths based on things that happen some time ago. every single day, when we get 3 to 4 million people vaccinated, we get closer and closer to what inevitably will be a diminution in hospitalization, and a diminution in deaths. no doubt about that. every single day we get closer
and closer to that when we vaccinate about 3 million people a day. >> still, so much work to do. chief medical adviser to the white house, dr. anthony fauci, thank you for your time. >> thank you for having me. we have breaking news. the interim police chief is speaking at this moment on the investigation and also sharing some new body cam video. we are reviewing it, but first we want to get to athena jones, who is live in columbus. what is the police chief saying? >> hi, alyson. michael woods releasing two 911 ca calls, as well as the footage from three body-worn cameras of the officers on the scene. we know police responded to a call yesterday at 4:32 p.m., a call from someone indicating females were there trying to
stab them and put their hands on them. that is one of the 911 calls we just ahead. from what sounds like a very young girl. we don't yet know who it was who made that call we assume it's something that would be addressed right now. >> i want to show you the slow motion video. it's from the officer who was the first to arrive on the scene. that is the officer who shot ma'khia bryant. it's police policy to blew images of minors in videos like this, but there always to be a girl with a knife in her hand. that girl falls to the ground. you can hear the officer yell hey, hey, hey, get down and then bryant appears to lunge at a second girl. her arm is raised with a nice in her right hand. the officer then saying get
down, get down, and fire four shots in the direction of the teenager. as you see her on the ground slumped against the car, at one point you can see what looks to be a steak knife on the ground near her. you see one of the officers trying to perform life-saving measures. the police have not said who made the 911 call, they have not released the name of the officer. but we node from a press difference last night with mayor ginther, he said we know the officer took action to protect another young girl in our community. of self and defense of another, these are reasons for justifiable shooting. that's what authorities think happened here. it's important to mention here in ohio, these investigations are handled independently. this is going to be carried out by the bureau of criminal
investigation, that is part of the ohio attorney general's office. this is completely separate from the police department. they have an investigation going on right now, but one thing we have seen the mayor and police chief stress both last night and today the need for transparency, so the public has -- i should note again last evening, video was being posted on social media just in the aftermath of this shooting, hours before we heard from the authorities, hours before they released the firps initial body camera footage. we also saw a crowd gather at the scenes, so it was very important for authorities to to put the information out as soon as they could. as of now, they believe this was a shooting of an officer trying to prevent this young girl from injures another. we'll see what comes out of this investigation, and also what
comes ute from the press conference going on right now. >> i know these are very early hours, but from the body cam video, it looks like it's chaotic, and looks like the officer had to make a split-second decision, as officers so often do. it is very disturbing to watch, just like the george floyd video is disturbing to watch, but it's so different. you don't get the 9 minutes, 29 seconds. this is a millisecond. so what is the status of that officer while the investigation goes on? >> reporter: right. that officer has been taken off the streets while the investigation goes on. that is policy as the bureau of criminal investigation carries this out. we know that after that investigation, then there will be an investigation that goes to the franklin county grand jury. also the columbus police department will carry out its own internal review looking at the actions, but as you mentioned, in the normal speed video, it's hard to tell what's going on. only by slowing it down can you
see what was happening there. it was a very quick decision. as you mentioned, not all cases are like the george floyd case and not all shootings by police are unjustified. certainly authorities here think as of right thousand, they believe this one was justified. thank you, athena jones. coming up, relief and renewed push for police reform. reaction continues to come in after the conviction. we'll have that next. ok, at at&t everyone gets our best deals on all smartphones. let me break it down. you got your new customers — they get our best deals. you got your existing customers — they also get our best deals. everyone. gets. the deals. questions? got it. but, why did you use a permanent marker? because i want to make sure you remember. i am going to get a new whiteboard. it's not complicated. only at&t gives new & existing customers the same great deals on all smartphones.
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this is the press conference out of columbus, ohio, where the police chief -- i believe this is the mayor, though, who has joined the press conference, talking about the investigation into the police killing of this teenage girl. let's listen. >> we don't yet have all of the facts, but we do know that a 16-year-old girl, a child in this community, tragically died last night. we released the officer's body-worn camera footage as soon as possible. we'll release all other information that we can as soon as we can. we also need to be careful about not compromising the investigation being conducted by bci. we believe that transparency
with the public is the utmost priority during this difficult time. bottom like, did ma'khia bryant need to die yesterday? how did we get here? this is a failure on the part of our community. some are guilty, but all of us are responsible. if the officer was wrong, we will hold him accountability, as we have other officers who have committed wrongdoing transparency account ability, absolutely critical to our community during this time of crisis. we have a bigger societal
question. how do we as a city and a community come together to ensure or kids never feel the need to resource to violence as a means of solving disputes, or in order to protect themselves? we remain committed to ensuring accountability in all violent interactions between police and our neighbors. the bci investigation is the first step in unraveling what led to the tragic death of yet another child in our community we released officer-involved body-worn camera within hours of the incident. we updated stakeholders through the evening. we are releasing remaining footage from witness officers here this afternoon. we will release cruiser cam video either later today or
early tomorrow morning we continue to meet with faith leaders, community leaders and the myia to share everything we can without compromising the investigation. we know how critical timely information is to the public right now. i invite the safety director pp pettis to come forward and share a few words. >> thank you, mayor. i understand the outrage and emotion around this incident.
a teenage girl is dead at the hands of a police officer. under any circumstances, that is a horrendous tragedy. the video shows there are more to this. it requires us to pause, take a close look at the sequence of events though it's not easy, wait for the facts as determined by an independence investigation. we have to ask ourselves, what investigation did the officer have? what did he see? how much time did hef have to assess the situation? what would have happened if he had taken no action at all? we don't yet have those answers,
but these are some of the questions that are addressed in disciplinary hearings that come before me. as chief woods has indicated, a fully independence investigation is being conducted by bci. the results will be public. so i plead with the community, let us not rush to judgment. as i said last night, fast facts should not come at the cost of complete and accurate facts the loved ones of ma'khia bryant have my most sincere sympathies. we as a community could wrap them in love and we should allow process to play out. thank you.
again, i am limited in the information not only that i can share, but the information that i have. as i stated earlier, the division of police, our responsibility is to provide information, not to conduct this investigation. so i will try to answer some questions that you have. >> reporter: who -- the first 911 call. is that me a'khia bryant's voic? >> we do not know that. the police did not interview anyone that day, and we will not. >> reporter: did anyone on the scene say it was ma key ya? >> reporter: for example, the woman on the ground or the woman in pink, how old were they and what were their relationships? >> again, those are witnesses, so they were referred to bci.
so bci would have that information. again, that's part of their investigation. we don't come in -- we did separate the witnesses, you saw that, with the officer placing individuals in the back seats of cruisers. that was the extent of our involvement right then. we wanted to separate the witnesses, keep them available for bci, but we do not interview them. we don't ask them what they saw before they got there or when it was there. that's an entirely exclusive bci process. >> reporter: chief a couple questions for you and one for the mayor, if i may. this question has to do with policy more than the investigation. one question specifically that has gone viral on social media is, to what degree should an officer opt to use a taser rather than his service weapon. again i'm asking you to respond to that based on policy, not
specific to this investigation? >> i can smote respond specifically to this specific incident. what i can say is when officers are faced with someone employs deadly force, deadly force can be the response the officer gives. >> reporter: in the hypothetical scenario do you use the taser versus a service weapon? >> again, if there's not deadly force being perpetrated on someone else at that time, an officer may have the opportunity to have cover, distance and time to use a taser. but if those things aren't present and there is an active assault going on in which someone could lose their life, the officer can use their firearm to protect that third person. >> reporter: mr. mayor, it's very rare for a police agency in this country to release body
camera footage as fast as this department did. you pretty quickly after the shooting sent out a couple tweets saying, there is camera video, indicating you wanted it released. did you face an uphill battle with anyone in pushing for that to try to get it released last night? >> i think we all knew, as a city in this community that there were a lot of things being said and shared out in the community that may or may not having consistent with what we have seen with our own eyes here. it's very important to be as transparent as possible. you have everybody that we have that's been processed, we will be sharing more in the hours,
days, week, hail, because it's critically important for us, for the public to have the information that we have, so we can be transparent as possible. >> mayor, to follow up on that, whose call was it to release all that information? why was it done? was it done -- and did it -- things? >> it was done, because the public deserves to know what happens. they needed to have this footage. the reason i made body-worn cameras my top priority when i was running is to have this information to have this trans transparency, have this powers given to the community we have this footage. we know it increases accountability on both sides of the camera. this is also why upgrading or
body-worn system this year in partnership with and the best available technology and footage to share with the public as these things take shape. [ inaudible question ] >> i believe it will be something we have to evaluate. my goal is to have as much information shared as quickly as possible. as you know, our top priority last year was entering into by executive order and mou the first time ever the city has had independent investigations take place that the bci is handling in this case, as well as the case involving andre hill from december. that was the top priority and something that we believe is important that folks know there's an independent
investigation taking place when there are police-involved shootings and deaths, and deaths in custody. it's something that i think we'll strive for and make a priority, again, because we believe transparency is most important during times like these. >> reporter: you talked about the need for reflection and everyone's responsibility for a tragedy like this. regardless of whether the -- finds this officer within protocol, are you calling for change to try to prevent another shooting like this? >> absolutely. the fact we had a 16-year-old girl armed and involved with physical violence with other folks in that community, that's something for us to look in the mirror and say what are we doing or not doing? how can we better serve young people who are facing one of the greatest spikes of violence in this city and in cities across america? what else can we be doing? we're undertaking significant
reform efforts and seating our first-ever civilian review board, looking at our training, how we're recruiting, the types of officers we're putting on the streets and what we're equipping them with all in response to the matrix report and the community safety advisory commission ref recommendations. this will be a top prior for the city moving forward, as we continue with change and reform. we'll be firing the first external chief of police in the city's history in the coming months. we think that, with other steps, will help us deal with what the community is calling for. >> reporter: you described how your policy allows an officer to discharge their firearm to prevent deadly harm. what do you train your officers about how many times they can discharge their weapon before topping and reevaluating. >> firearms training is you fire until the threat is over.
there were shots fired, but i can't assess what the officer is thinking. that would be through his statement, but training is, you fire to stop the threat. >> reporter: chief, can i ask you about the gentleman also seen in the video, seen kicking the girl who was on the ground? is cp investigating that separately? >> we'll have to look at that, but first before we can talk to that person or any other individual to look at any crime that may have been committed during this, bci has to have that first opportunity to talk to everyone there. once they give us information that those interviews have been completed, we'll step in and see if there's additional individuals that need charges filed. >> reporter: can i follow up on your previous statement? what do you think could have been done differently to prevent what happened last night? >> well, obviously we'll know more once we have the independent investigation
completed and the result back from that, which will be an exhaustive process that we have a great deal of confidence in. the people very confidence that it will be an independent investigation. certainly what i was speak to is this larger spike in violence that you and i have talked about a number of times over the past year, year and a half, and what we need to be doing as a community to prevent the type of violence before any officer arrived on the scene that was taking place in one of our neighborhoods. it's going to require all of us to step up and do more to invest in our young people and make sure that they have positive pro programmatic pathways. there's a lot of people who feel hopeless, these don't count,
they don't matter, and they continue to see that you are friends shot and killed day after day, week after week, month after month. there's a hopelessness amongium people. that's something as a committee we'll have to address. >> reporter: you talked about this, but president biden also said this morning that guns did not be the final answer for threats like this. what specifically did you see on that tape that makes you think this may not have been appropriate oar in the alternative, that the officer did act appropriately? >> obviously the investigation we'll respond to that and will answer that on the criminal side and the policy size for the division of police. i haven't seen the council president's statements, so i'm not going to react to that, but i do believe a lot of other reforms and efforts were involved with, including the alternative crisis response and other things that we're investing in will help. i don't know if any of those
things would have, you know, had a different outcome based on what we have seen in this footage. we won't know completely until that independent investigation is finished. >> reporter: chief, one of the big questions that's been asked primarily on social media, it may seem like a silly question, shouldn't people already know, but this is a legitimate question that people are asking -- can an officer shoot a leg? can they shoot somewhere that would not result in a fatal wound? a lot of people say couldn't she have shot her in the leg or arm so she dropped? >> one of the difficult things with that, when you're trying -- we don't train to shoot the leg, because that's a small target. we train to shoot center mass, what is available to stop that threat. there was a threat going on, a deadly force threat going on, so the officer is trained to shoot center mass, the largest part of a body that is available to them.
when you tro i to start shooting legs or arms, rounds miss, they continue on and there's people behind that that could be in danger that are not committing anything. we try to minimize any danger to anyone else if we have to use our firearm. >> reporter: chief, is a 12-minute response time acceptable? >> it was not written up as an attempted stabbing. we have received the information as a disturbance. as you could hear from the 911 call, it was some confusing information. the dispatchers attempted to gain more information to help them decipher what was going on. the second call was very abbreviated. once they saw a cruiser outside, no additional information was provided. what we try to do with our dispatcher is ask those questions, get as much information as we possibly can so officers travel to go a scene have all that information. in this instance, i think it was very chaotic, the phone calls
was loud, there was a lot of screaming going on in the background. all of that information that we weren't able to get would have been beneficial, but as far as a 12-minute response time, i don't know what else was going on in the city at the time. we have to prioritize. we only have so many resources. if there were other priority calls for service going on at that time, we have to look at that, and then are cars available for that. >> reporter: the first caller did refer to trying to stab us. >> yes. >> reporter: that's no cause for urgency? >> again, cars were dispatched. i don't have that information if cars were available. we received the call. the call was written up, but do we have cars available to respond? that's a question i just don't have the answer to right now. >> reporter: do we have proximity to the first officer -- do we know how far out he was? >> i do not. >> reporter: the injured -- the
two in pink and the one that goes down, the girl who -- [ inaudible question ] -- do we know anything -- >> i believe they are minor injuries, but i don't have the extent. [ inaudible question ] >> any injury or information they would have provided would have gone to the bci, not to the columbus police. >> reporter: the first call came in at 4:32, is that correct? >> yes. >> reporter: the second call came in -- >> i don't have that time -- i just have the first information. the first call at 4:32. >> and officers were dispatched at 4:35 does it typically take three minutes to dispatch an officer? >> again, a dispatcher has -- this is zone 2, so this is a large part of the southeast part of columbus. there are four precincts on that zone. it's an afternoon, a nice day. there may have been a lot of
calls for service, so what cars are available? they rate those in priorities. this was a priority 2 call. once a car is available, they get dispatched. >> reporter: do you know how many gunshot wounds were -- >> i do not. >> reporter: does the policy state that the officer must declare he's about to shoot before he does shoot? >> we try, but its not a policy requirement that you yell your intent to fire your weapon. >> reporter: is it a part of teaching that the officer is taught to -- >> if there is time and opportunity, yes, we try and include that, but it is not a requirement if that time and opportunity is not there. >> reporter: do you know or has it been confirmed that the -- lived in that community? >> i can't confirm any information about her. >> reporter: do you know what this disturbance was about? >> we don't.
again, that will be obtained through those investigations from bci. they're getting the first crack. they want to have that information. they want that information fresh. i would like to just mention, your question about the timelyness and how quick we were ability get this this information out there. one of the things that has to occur before we get that, bci wants a look at that body-worn camera. so we send a homicide detective to the scene that allows them to watch that. they want to review all that body-worn camera, so when they're doing their investigation, the scene, any evidence, they want to make sure they have collected any evidence. so they get the first opportunity. last night the opportunity to view that happened quickly, then that body-worn camera was brought into police headquarters, we uploaded it into the system and we got that out as quick as we could, i believe about 5 1/2 hours. that's extremely fast, and i'm
not going to say that we're going to be able to do that every time. if there are a lot more videos to watch, bci has to go through each one to have a good understanding of what too place, who to interview, what the crime scene looks like. it's a time factor of making sure they have that information before any of us do. bci agents watched all that body-worn camera before it was ever brought to me. >> reporter: chief, what's your take in watches that video? >> it's a tragedy. there's no other way to say it. it's a 16-year-old girl. i'm a father. her family is grieving. regardless of the circumstances associated with this, a 16-year-old lost her life yesterday. i sure as hell wish it hadn't happened. >> thanks, everybody.
okay. ivan listens to a press conference in columbus, ohio, the interim police chief michael woods, along with the mayor there and the public safety director. it was just really fascinating, victor, how quickly, as they point out -- they keep using the word transparency, how quickly they have come out of after that horrible shooting of a 16-year-old girl to try to show everyone what they're dealing with. >> 180 difference from what we saw in minneapolis. we've talked about the press release after the death of george floyd and what we're seeing from this department. the chief, the mayor also saying we'll get body camera video from the witness officers as well.
later videos from the cruisers. he used the words transparency and accountability. now this investigation goes over to the bureau of criminal investigations there in ohio. let's bring in athena jones. she's been covering this on the ground. we have josh campbell and joe estead, former richmond, virginia, police officer, so all of you have a fascinating persp perspective. athena, tell us what the mood is and what your take is on this press conference is. >> reporter: alyson, i think what is most as soon as, on getting as much information out to the public as quickly as possible. one thing we heard the chief stress is, this is all part of a larger set of police reforms that was put into place laos summer, so july of 2020. we talked about a memorandum of understanding. that is why we now see incidents
like this being investigated first and foremost by what's called the bureau of criminal investigation. that is a part of the ohio attorney general's office. he said several times, in explaining the process over the last less than 24 hours now, that bci, the bureau of criminal investigation gets first attempt at all of this to talk to witnesses, to gather evidence. so even when it comes to the body camera footage that was released yesterday, the first camera footage was from the first officer to arrive on the scenes. chief woods said that was released after about 5 1/2 hours, and it was released after bci was able to view the footage. the bureau of criminal investigation handles this independently from the police. they look into issues like this, and this is all part of an attempt to reform police practices here in the city of columbus. we also heard from the department of public safety talking about how, you know, obviously each one of these men
talking about how this is a tragedy, but dr. pettis saying they are in touch with community leaders, faith leaders, to talk about why -- they've seen a rise in violence, including among young people in and around the city of columbus, but i would say the most interesting thing that came out of it was the focus on in this aej of social media with camera phones, we saw video being tweeted out yesterday in the relative immediate aftermath of this shooting. video by bystanders that did not capture the shooting in the way a police body camera shooting would. we also saw a small crowd begin gathering very quickly. that, of course, put pressure on the authorities to try to get this information out there. so, yes, a focus on transparency. for the benefit of the authorities and for the benefit of the community, in part because, you know, there is so much scrutiny on police action in these communities, in black and brown communities, and
because of the footage that was already being put out several hours before the police were able to release that initial video. so, transparency very important here. one other thing i'll mention is they were asked a couple of things. was this this level of force necessary? you heard chief woods saying, if a subject is engaged in deadly force, then deadly force is allowed to be used against them. someone else asked, couldn't they have, perhaps, tried to aim for a leg or arm? chief woods said, police are not trained to shoot a leg or arm. they're trained to shoot the largest part of the body. a leg or arm would be a very small target. in the situation in that video, you run the risk of hurting others. those were two issues that came up. and also the response time. this call came in at 4:32 p.m. we understand the police didn't arrive until 4:44, so there were several questions about what took so long. it's not clear they know how many cars were available and
that sort of thing. clearly an effort at transparency and an effort to he sho the community that we understand this is a tragedy. >> joe, let me bringing that to you. when to use lethal force versus nonlethal force. there were the questions, did that officer have to shoot? was that the prudent choice? you're a former richmond, virginia, police officer. i want to. ul i want positive. ul that thread. expound on that. >> first, when an officer arrives on the scene, he has to make the scene safe. he has to identify the threat. he has to quickly assess what kind he's come upon. now, if you notice, she had a butcher knife in her hand. now, when she approached the other girl, you saw her open her hand like this before the officer started to shoot. officers are trained, you have to match that threat and eliminate it as quickly as possible. if he didn't shoot and and she
was able to stab, that officer is now liable for not saving the girl's life. we are in a day and age where police brutality is at the forefront. we need to really understand what police brutality, what's justified and what's police brutality. when you look at this incident, if this officer didn't respond the way he responded, we would be have another conversation about why this officer froze up, why he didn't respond? his job is to preserve life. unfortunately, the 16-year-old, she lost her life in the process. the officer's job is to preserve life and that's exactly what he did. he had to match that level of force to stop it. >> it's so helpful to have your perspective as a former police officer explaining this to us. josh, on a bigger picture, you have been in the courtroom for the derek chauvin trial. and do you think that this level of transparency in columbus, ohio, would be happening 5 1/2 hours after the incident?
they're already releasing the body cam. i they say, we're opening up our files to the investigators. what you need to know, i'm happy to answer questions. do you think that is the upshot of what we've all lived through the past year since george floyd's death? >> reporter: yeah, it's certainly a factor with george floyd and the police killing of daunte wright where they came out quickly with that body cam footage. i think it comes down to one simple fact. law enforcement officers require the trust of the public to do their job. in so many incidents in police force, one way to get around the skepticism is to show us the evidence, show members of the community. that's what they're trying to do. especially in incidents where you might have disinformation out there that's spreading about what actually transpired, there is nothing that can compare to the public seeing it for themselves, seeing that deadly force situation at play where you have someone that, yes, it
is certainly a tragedy. obviously, it remains under investigation. we're not drawing any conclusion until we get the full facts. but when an officer arrives, and there's a threat to someone else, every law enforcement deadly policy in the country has some provision that says deadly force may be employed if officer perceives there's deadly threat to that officer or another person. it appears from what we can see, that it meets that second factor. you have someone else's life potentially in danger. one other thing i want to point out because this is something we've seen in different incidents. there's a notion that perhaps a knife didn't as deadly as a firearm. the chief there saiding we talk about time, we talk about proximity. all that's going to play out in this video. we'll see for ourselves how imminent that threat is ourselves. to answer your question, i don't know if we would have seen this so quickly if we didn't have all these incidents in recent
months. >> we had the department of public safety, fast facts shouldn't come at the cost of complete and accurate facts. we'll take you live to minneapolis to speak to an attorney for the floyd family in the wake of the historic verdict in the chauvin trial. stay tuned for cnn's live special coverage.
it is the top of the the ho. it has been a busy news day already, i think it's fair to say. i'm alisyn camerota joined by victor blackwell. the nation watched former police officer derek chauvin get convicted, then led away in handcuffs. he will be sentenced eight weeks from now. and while civil rights leaders and activists are considering his conviction a victory, they also emphasize the fight for