tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN April 16, 2021 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
rely on the experts at 1800petmeds for the same medications as the vet, but for less with fast free shipping. visit petmeds.com today. there is no way, in good conscience, to use the word good evening, tonight. though, there are many words to choose from. mournful. tearful. and yes, as a country, shameful. good is simply not one of them. not after what happened overnight. when we began this program, last night, we noted that, between the police killing of daunte wright, the trial of derek chauvin, and the police shooting of a 7th grader. it was, in so many words, a lot. then, late-last night, a gunman opened fire at a fedex facility in indianapolis. eight people were killed by a 19-year-old, former employee. several others were wounded or hurt. countless-more tonight are living the nightmare of losing
someone close, and the toll extends beyond the victims and their next of kin. now, this, we know, from experience. the shock waves, they ripple out over -- over time and distance. 14 years ago, tonight, the country was reeling from the loss of 32 lives on the campus of virginia tech university. do you remember that shooting? a month ago, we were watching the horrible images come in from two-mass shootings in and around atlanta. seems a long time ago, doesn't it? the sad fact is, though, that mass shootings have become so common, it may, soon, be hard for one not to fall on the anniversary of another. this is a map of mass shootings in just the last month, which we're defining as four or more people shot, wounded, or killed, excluding the gunman. one other thing to note. there is only room on the map to show a little less than half. the full count, again, over just a single month since the atlanta shootings is 45 and the map is profound as it might be, doesn't do justice to the story.
doesn't capture the horror. it doesn't capture the wounds, and the deaths of so many americans. the map doesn't tell the story of the five people, who were shot and wounded on march 17th in stockton, california. or the four shot in oregon, a day later. in houston, on the 20th, five shot at a nightclub. that same day in dallas, eight people shot and one killed in philadelphia. that night someone opened fire at a party, kill one and wounding five. at least 150 others fled for their lives. then, on march 22nd, in boulder, a gunman opened fire at a supermarket, killing ten, including a local police officer. >> the consequences of all this are deeper than i suspect we know. by that, i mean, the mental consequences. the feeling of -- anyway, just been through too manufay of the >> just three nights later, two gunmen opened fire in a bar outside philadelphia wounding seven. that same night, five were shot and three killed in memphis.
four wounded, that night, in norfolk. two gunmen killed one and wounded seven in chicago. that was all on the 26th of march. the next day, in river george, illinois, a mass shooting on a party bus killed one, wounded three. at a nightclub in yazoo city, mississippi, a shooter wounded six. and that afternoon, four people were shot in chicago. in essex, maryland, on march 28th, a man fatally shot his parents before shooting three people at a convenience store, killing two of them. that day, in chicago, another-four shot and wounded on a highway. and in cleveland, seven people not at a nightclub. one time, one night, in america. except, it wasn't. five shot, two killed in d.c. on the 31st. four killed at an office complex in orange, california. one of the victims, a 9-year-old boy. on april 3rd, seven wounded near a nightclub in quincy, florida. five wounded in tuscaloosa, alabama. three killed and four others hurt at a party in wilmington,
north carolina. four shot the next day, easter, in beaumont, texas. and in birmingham, alabama, an argument spiralled out of control, more than 30 shots fired at a local park. one killed, five wounded, including four children. in monroe, louisiana, that same night, six shot and wounded at a local bar. april 5th, five shot and wounded in baltimore, one killed. three wounded on the 6th in detroit. two shot, two killed on the 7th in milwaukee. also, that day, in rock hill, south carolina, former-nfl player, killed five people. you probably remember that one. including a prominent doctor, his wife, and their two young grandchildren. >> i have lived in rock hill, my entire life. and dr. leslie was my doctor, growing up. so, that's how this is kind of little -- a little hard on me. so -- so -- but dr. leslie's been one of those people that everybody knows. >> everybody knows him. and now, he's dead. sheriff's office spokesman speaking there. his boss, the sheriff said, saying there is nothing about this right now that makes sense
to any of us. april 7th. rock hill, south carolina. on the 8th in bryan, texas. said one worker who had first walked toward the popping noises which she thought were from machinery malfunctioning. i started walking and someone grabbed me and said, no, we need to run. and thankfully, they did. april 8th on the job in bryan, texas. on the night -- 9th in ft. worth, one killed five injured during a should totout on the freeway. four shot and wounded in waterbury, connecticut. one killed, three others wounded at a convenience store in missouri. one killed and three wounded in memphis. in seattle, april 11th, a toddler and three others hit by gunfire in a parking lot. in the following-four days, ten-more people would be killed and at least 25 wounded in six more mass shootings, including the latest one overnight. barring drastic changes or a miracle, it will not be the last. and as little as a few days,
perhaps it won't even be the latest but it's where we begin with cnn's mig miguel marquez. >> reporter: eight more lives lost in america's latest mass shooting. >> he was firing in the open. and i, immediately, ducked down and got scared. and my friend's mother. he came -- she came in and told us to get inside the car. >> we heard three more shots. and then, my buddy levi saw somebody running out of the building. and then, more shots went off. >> reporter: the suspect, officers say, has been identified as a 19-year-old man who was a former employee at this fedex. they say, he entered the sprawling facility near the indianapolis airport just after 11:00 p.m. last night. after opening fire in the parking lot, killing four. he killed another four, inside. seven more injured in the rampage. >> he got out of his car, and pretty quickly started some
random shooting, outside the facility. there was no confrontation with anyone that was there. there was no disturbance. there was no argument. >> reporter: police say he used at least one rifle. they responded within minutes to what they described as a chaotic-crime scene. the gunman had already killed himself inside the building. >> i am a little -- i'm a little overwhelmed. >> reporter: the fbi is assisting local police in searching the gunman's home and car. cnn has learned he was known to federal and local officials, after a family member reached out to them. warning of a potential for violence. >> we've recently identified him. so now, the work really begins trying to establish some of that. and see if we can figure out some sort of motive in this but we don't have that, right now. >> reporter: family members of victims and those who worked at the facility gathered at a nearby hotel, as police work to identify the victims. the facility, the second-largest hub in fedex's global network with more than 4,500 employees. in a statement, fedex said the
company is deeply shocked and saddened by the loss of our team members. >> nothing we learn can heal the wounds of those who escaped with their lives. but who will, now, bear the scars and endure the memories of this horrific crime. >> miguel marquez joins us now, not far from the scene. so what more do we know about the interactions the shooter had with federal-law enforcement in the past? >> we know, back in march of 2020, the shooter's mother called police here, in indianapolis. and said that he had the potential, he wanted to commit suicide by cop, essentially. police came round. they checked everything out. they confiscated a shotgun, at the time. it also prompted something they saw in the house or in his room prompted them to contact fbi. they interviewed him, a month later. they found no evidence of sort of extremism, religious, or -- or violence, of any sort. so, they -- they dropped the case.
but, he kept the gun. and they did not give the gun back. but now, the question will be where did this gun come from? how did he get it? and could all of this have been prevented? anderson. >> miguel marquez, thank you. a member of the indianapolis city council -- city county council. she joins us now. councillor brown, thank you for joining us. when you woke up this morning, heard another mass shooting had taken place. what did you think? >> i was shocked. i was shocked and i was saddened. this is the third-mass shooting that we've had in indianapolis, this year. i was heartbroken. and then, i was angry, because this is the third-mass shooting we've had in indianapolis, this year. and it seems, that we can't do -- we're -- we can't stop it. >> do -- this -- you -- i mean, would you be surprised if this happened again in indianapolis, three months from now? >> i -- i don't want to say that i would be surprised. i am just saddened, and i'm shocked. and it's -- we live in a
culture, where there's too many people who have too many means and have the ability to access guns, instead of accessing mental-health care or other assistance they need so i am afraid it might. >> what are you hearing from people in your community tonight? >> you know, people here in indianapolis are -- they're frightened. they're -- they're scared. they're sad. saddened is definitely a big thing. you could feel it, everywhere, today. we always say, you know, you always feel like this can't happen here. this has now happened here three times, this year. we have a school shooting here we are coming up on the third anniversary. noblesville, just north of us. you know, we should acknowledge this does happen here and we have to do better in -- in trying to stop it. but people are hurt. this is -- we are indiana. indianapolis is a big city. there is a million people here, but it feels like a small town. and everybody knows somebody who works at -- out at one of the fedex plants. so it's -- it's a real hard day. >> you know, and -- and again, these are early reports.
but from what miguel was saying, it sounds like, you know, some member of the family of -- of this-particular shooter, you know, reached out to law enforcement. they did the right thing. they raised their -- their concerns to law enforcement who -- and this person was on -- on the radar of federal, local officials. and yet, still, this -- this happened. what -- what needs to be fixed? >> well, indiana has some of the most-lax gun laws in the country. one thing we do have is the red-flag law. that's what went into effect when his family member called, police investigated, and they were able to take away his weapon a year ago. there is a loophole, we call it the gun-show loophole. where you can buy a gun at a gun show without any-background check. you can buy a gun, person to person, you can go on facebook and find a gun and not even have to show i.d. it's harder to get a vaccine, in indiana, than it is to get a gun.
because at least you ever to show i.d. for that. so, no matter how proactive the police can be, without being able to close those loopholes, where 70% of indiana gun owners support closing those loopholes, the gun-show loophole. we can't stop someone who's had their guns removed from going around getting it some other way. >> do you think this shooting will change anything? >> i hope so. i hope so. it's -- you know, this is something that a lot of us have lived with the majority of our life. i was in 8th grade when columbine happened. i was a teacher when newtown happened. and surely, when a bunch of kindergartners are massacred in their classroom, you think something would happen. but a but as you stated those numbers, i don't know what it's going to take. i have called on our state legislature, as a councillor, they have taken away any ability to -- we can't protect our own people. so we need our state legislators
to do something about this. we need our federal legislators. we need senator braun and senator young to back up hr 8 on the universal-background checks. we need this. our police are asking for it. until we do something. until we step up and say, enough is enough, we're not going to be able able to do anything here. >> counselor brown, i appreciate your time tonight. thank you. next, more on the politics of trying to, if not end, then at least limit, gun violence. and what the president plans to do about it. later, a live report from chicago where protestors have gathered in the wake of the police shooting of a 13-year-old. and later tonight, marjorie taylor greene, the qanon-curious congresswoman's latest effort reviving an old movement with racist roots to push for what she is calling the quote, anglo-saxon political tradition. ! before, no one used to listen to me! hello id? i'm cold!
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tonight, discussing sadly-familiar subject. having to deal with the modern phenomenon of americans targeting other americans, in large numbers. >> this has to end. it's a national embarrassment. it is a national embarrassment, what's going on. and it's not only these mass shootings that are occurring. every single day. every single day, there is a mass shooting in this -- in the united states, if you count all those who it killed out in the streets of our cities and our rural areas. it's a national embarrassment, and must come to an end. >> joining us now on the politics of what to do about it, gloria borger. and david axelrod who saw moments like these from the inside during the obama administration. gloria, i mean, president biden rejected the idea that his administration has prioritized infrastructure over dealing with guns. arguing he can work on more than one thing at a time. but in terms of political capital, oftentimes, it's got to be focused. >> it does have to be focused.
and you could just hear the frustration in the president's voice. and david remembers this, as well as i do, that after newtown, joe biden was put in charge of getting some form of gun-reform legislation through the congress by then-president obama. and i heard the same frustration from him, then. and he did not succeed. he tried to get universal-background checks. he tried to do even more than that. and he could not do it. and here we are, all these years later, and he is saying exactly the same thing. now, he's president, yes. now, he has an agenda, yes. but i think he's right. i think, you can do more than one thing at a time. and we don't know, yet, whether the ground has shifted, a bit. the nra has been having its own problems. the democrats control, both, the house and the senate. will they be able to get some kind of a compromise that, yes,
may be a little bit narrower than what democrats want. but will they timely be able to do something? and will the president of the united states say enough is enough? and maybe, we have to end the filibuster so not everything takes 60 votes to get through the congress. >> david, will -- i mean, you have seen this from the inside. what have you learned? >> i learned to be very, deeply skeptical about whether things can get done. and i -- and i talk to democrats and republicans in the senate, today, anderson. and neither side, at this juncture, can count to ten republicans to support a, you know, a gun bill. joe manchin tried, in 2013, after newtown, to -- to make all-commercial sales of guns subject to background checks. he did it in a bipartisan basis, with senator toomey. and it got, i think, 54 votes. that was the effort that joe biden was involved in, then. and the -- even though the polls are overwhelming on this, the
politics haven't changed. this has become, sort of, a cultural issue for the right. you know, it's a bit like masks. it's freedom, versus public health. and they haven't really lifshif much on this. so, i -- i -- i -- it is numbingnumbing to be sitting here, again, talking about these stories. they come so fast that you can barely remember last week's mass -- mass shooting. but, the politics is not -- is not shifting. and i am not optimistic, that a compromise will be reached. chris murphy, the senator from connecticut is working hard, apparently, to find -- find a compromise. i -- i do think that the white house is spending most of its political capital on the infrastructure plan. that is the biggest thing in front of them right now. and i think joe biden has a sense -- a realistic sense of what's doable here. >> yeah. yeah. i mean, gloria, david talked about, you know, chris murphy. the lead sponsor of the background-check bill in the senate.
he said he is open to compromise, on this. says he's been talking to republicans for several weeks. but again, swaying enough republicans to get a version of his bill passed is, you know, not easy. >> it's difficult. it -- it's difficult. and -- and, you know, the problem is that republicans, over these years, have become more and more dug in. as david points out, guns have become a cultural issue. if you say you want to do universal-background checks and 90% of the public says, yeah, okay, we think that's a great idea. you have a large group of republicans, who see that as, somehow, taking away their second-amendment rights. taking away their freedom, which is the keyword here. we hear it used with masks, as david points out. and somehow, this becomes an issue that republicans can run on. i mean, remember after parkland, donald trump was saying, oh, yeah, yeah, we are going to get something done on gun reform, right? he had all the parents in. they met with him, in the white
house. and what did he do? you know, some regulatory ban on b bump-stocks after he met with the nra. >> yeah. >> didn't do anything. >> anderson. anderson, we should point out that, even in this week, the house -- the statehouse in texas voted to do away with permits to carry a gun. this was just passed recently by -- in tennessee. in texas, the law now says you have to have a permit to carry a gun, concealed or unconcealed. and you have to go through training, and you have to have your fingerprints taken. this law would do away with all of that. this is in the face of all of what we've seen. so, that tells you where the temperature is, among the right, on this issue. >> yeah. gloria borger, david axelrod. thank you appreciate it. chicago also grieving tonight. protestors angry over the police shooting of 13-year-old adam toledo taking to the streets. the question, whether the video of the shooting shows an offer justified in his actions. we will have a live report from chicago when we come back.
just yesterday. >> reporter: anderson, it's playing out right now on the streets of chicago. this is milwaukee avenue. this began at logan square. there are thousands of people, and the crowd has continued to grow. it is not just the death of adam toledo, that has brought them out in the streets. his is one death, of many, that they believe people who died at the hands of chicago police and died wrongfully. in many cases, this crowd believes that they were murdered by police. much, in the way, that many of them see the death of adam toledo. so, this protest is only, just now, getting started. the reactions, though, are, still, very, very visceral. many people here cannot believe that they watched the death of a 13-year-old. we warn you, what you are about to see is hard to watch. this is the moment when police killed 13-year-old adam toledo. newly-released body-cam video showing the officer, identified as eric stillman, firing one shot as toledo raised his hands in the air.
police say, this image shows toledo was holding a gun, before stillman shot him. and they say, that gun was found nearby, after the shooting. but, look closer. when toledo raised his hands, he did not appear to be holding anything. police say that toledo was holding the gun less-than-a-second before he raised his hands. >> the family's attorney says they won't know if what toledo had in his hands was a gun, until she has the video forensically analyzed. but says, it doesn't change what happened. >> that child complied. adam complied with the officer's request. drop the gun. turned around. the officer saw his hands were up and pulled the trigger. >> reporter: officer stillman's lawyer says the officer was left with no-other option, and that he feels horrible about the outcome. but, he was well-within his jois justification of using deadly force. >> that officer had eight-tenths of a second to determine if that
weapon was still in his hand or not. that officer does not have to wait to be shot at or shot, in order to respond and defend himself. >> reporter: police say that they were responding to alerts of shots fired in the early-morning hours of march 29th. surveillance video, appears to show someone shooting toward a car. the new, body-cam video shows the chase that ensued moments after officers arrived on the scene. prosecutors are now charging a 21-year-old man with toledo, they say the gun recovered at the scene of toledo's killing matched shell casings at the first location where the car was fired on. and that toledo's hands and gloves dropped by the older suspect, tested positive for gunshot residue. the white house today called the video chilling. >> too often, in this country, law enforcement uses force too often resulting in the death of black and brown americans. the president has repeatedly said that he believes we need police reform. >> we also learned new information about how long it
took for adam thee doledo's famo hear what happened to him from authorities. >> right. according to authorities and the family, they say it was two-and-a-half days before the family of adam toledo was notified of the boy's death. the reason for that, they say, was that toledo did not have any identification on him, at the time. and also, the other man who was taken in custody who was with him, apparently, gave the wrong identification. so, it's just one-more tragedy, that is compounding both the sadness and the anger felt on the streets of chicago tonight. >> martin savidge, appreciate it. thank you of the. want to get perspective now from dr. charles morgan, a neuroscientist. associate professor at yale's department of psychiatry. thanks for being with us. when it comes to a police officer like you sigh in chicago, who is in a footchase. for any officer, who happens to a person's brain in a situation like that? and how does training impact the decisions they might make?
>> thank you for having me. you know, it's a great question. we all have brains. police officers' brains are like ours, and i like to show people when i go to court and testify, this is our brain. but this is not our brain under stress. when you are under stress, and under threat, you no longer have the part of your brain where you do critical thinking. you're really left with this part of your brain. and that part of your brain is really, um, early, and it's programmed to let you freeze, run, or fight. all right. so fight-flight response. >> what is that part of the brain called? >> that part of the brain's called the amygdala. and it's the center of the brain that identifies the world, only, in black-and-white terms. something is a danger, or it's not. and in split seconds, you either run, you freeze, or you fight. and we train police officers not to run away. if they freeze, they die. and so, they move at threats, like military folks. so, it's -- it's a terrible incident. but it is, both, unreasonable, from a neurobiological
perspective and unfair to expect a police officer in eight-tenths of a second to stop when they have initiated an activity to defend themselves. >> i've been in situations, where my adrenaline was, you know, at the highest volume imaginable, in very, you know, some dangerous situations. and i was not -- i -- i knew i was not -- well, i didn't know in the moment. but i was not thinking clearly. i was not responding. i was hearing things, differently than they were actually sounding. you are saying, that's essentially what happens. that -- that it's a very primitive part of your brain that's in play. >> absolutely. you know, sometimes, under stress, sounds go away. you get tunnel vision. those are all side effects of a turnover of a chemical called glutamate in our brain but it is a side effect of a high rush of adrenaline and cortisol in our brain. and you are absolutely right. we, all, don't get smarter under stress. i always tell my friends, i just get stupid faster than other people, under stress. but we, all, lose an ability to
think coolly, calmly, and think through things when we are under high adrenaline. so, it's -- part of our brain doesn't function. >> right. the -- the science is fascinating. but, you know, in reality, police officers are going to be under stress. this is an incredibly stressful job. just as anybody, you know, this can be anybody, under tremendous stress. so, how does training come into play here? >> personally, i think training for police officers needs to take into account how we think and function under stress, as humans. we resort to what we know, and what we have done by habit. so, most training really emphasizes, you know, moving at a threat. using a weapon. things like that. that's what people resort to. so, perhaps, training could begin with more activity, based on deescalation. and something non -- not as threatening, not as lethal. and then, adding that training,
later. because the decisions that police departments make right now are in response to the threats they perceive. and unfortunately, as you know, guns are available, right? so, the police feel they have to respond to threat. but, i think, training should take some of what we know from neuroscience into account. but we do have to ask ourselves, in society, what do we want from our police? because it's unreasonable to expect them, in those moments, to, suddenly, stop and think and do monday-morning second guessing, right? >> well, also, i mean, when you see that video. and -- and i mean, it's horrific, no matter how you -- you view it. the -- the amount of time we are talking about here. i mean, it -- it's all happening so fast, from them showing up on the scene to the chase. >> yeah. >> to, you know, him yelling at the kid to freeze. and then -- >> yep. >> -- from the time, you know, he turns around. it's -- it's just -- they say it's a second from the time they believe he had a weapon in his hand. to -- to being shot.
>> and -- and it's -- it's kind of unfair. it happened so fast. but in today's technology, we freeze a frame and you see it. and the one way we think is we call it a vividness bias. we -- we see something and it's striking and it's vivid. and we can see it in our mind. and we give it an enormous amount of weight. and that -- and we stop thinking about it, in context. so this happens in the blink of an eye, from the officer's perspective, right? he's running. he is chasing. he says, drop it. and -- and, you know, the -- you know, the -- the child turns. and in that split second, it's impossible to know whether he's dropped a gun, does he have a gun? but he is turning and it's a threat. but with the technology, and they slow it down. and you see the -- you see the image. we sit back and look at it and go, oh, he could have stopped. but it's just not true, in real life. >> interesting. i -- i would like to continue this discussion at some point because it is fascinating what you do. and fascinating just learning
about how the brain -- our -- our brains actually change what we would normally do. or -- or could possibly do. dr. charles morgan, really appreciate it. thank you. >> thank you very much. up next. what republican congresswoman marjorie taylor greene says she is now planning with some like-minded members of congress, and how there is some immediate pushback from her own party. details, when we come back. as naturally as we charge our phones. we. we are generation e. we want smart. clean. and safe. to also be fun, easy and powerful! ultium! a battery that charges fast. runs long. it fits everyone. nobody will be left out. and that, changes everything. ♪ ♪
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rely on the experts at 1800petmeds for the same medications as the vet, but for less with fast free shipping. visit petmeds.com today. the far-right fundraising qanon-curious congresswoman from georgia, marjorie taylor greene, says she is launching a new congressional caucus called america first. the online news site, punch bowl, reports a flyer circulating on capitol hill promoting the group calls for common respect for uniquely anglo-saxon traditions. house republican leader, kevin mccarthy, reacted almost instantaneously without identifying the congresswoman by name he posted on twit, quote, america is built on the idea that we are all created equal. and success is earned through honest, hard work, he said. it isn't built on identity, race or religion. the republican party is the party of lincoln and the party of more opportunity for all americans, not nativist-dog whistles. want to get some perspective now
from former-republican congresswoman, cnn political commentator, and political analyst, kirsten powers. congresswoman love, when you look at the america-first caucus policy platform. there is language in there, as we mentioned, about quote uniquely anglo-saxon, political traditions. what does that mean to you? >> well, the first question i would ask is whether someone like me would be included in that caucus. would i be -- would i be able to join a caucus like that? you know, anderson, in 2018, i was concerned about -- i wrote an op-ed about this. i was concerned about the republican party not reaching out to minorities enough. and how that was going to hurt the nation. not just the party. and i can't believe how far below the mark we have fallen. not only are we not reaching out to black communities but it seems like we have not been able to even define our policies, where people like marjorie taylor greene are taking over the party. and condensing it, instead of expanding the party that i, actually, signed up to belong to. >> hmm. kirsten, when you heard this
stuff, i mean, it's not a surprise, coming from, you know, this-particular congressperson, but what did you think? >> well, i mean, i think, you know, first, you think of -- it's not even, really, you could call it a dog whistle but it's not really a dog whistle. it's just an explicitly, pro-white statement. right? and -- and when she is referring to these anglo-saxon traditions, we usually think about white anglo-saxon protestants and -- and mia hits on exactly the right point. it's not talking about the people who actually built this country. the people who -- who were brought here against their will. black people. the people who, then, came in, in waves of immigrants. the types of -- the -- the types of people that she is now demonizing. they are the people, who actually built this country. but she is trying to harken back to this idea that's very european-centric, even in the
flyer, it talks about having more european-style architecture. things like that. and it's so core to our identity and that there are all -- you know, we are importing all of these people from another country. and how dangerous it is. it -- it's not even -- it's not even cloaked language. it's just very explicitly racist. >> yeah. and -- and congresswoman, you know, it's not -- i mean, you know, marjorie taylor greene is, basically, a fund raraiser. i mean, she is basically just a provocateur to exist on twitter, to raise money, to, you know, empower herself and -- and grow her name. grow her brand. >> well, she should be a political activist. she shouldn't be a member of congress, representing people. and, look. listen. >> that's old-fashioned, though. that's so boring and you actually have to be on committees. you actually have to research and read and meet with people.
and think of ideas, not your own. and consider and change your mind. no one wants to do that, anymore. she certainly doesn't. >> well, and it -- that's exac exactly what we actually need right now in america. i mean, we need people to actually research and look up and actually know what policies like immigration is going to do to help our economy. what inclusive policies are going to do to bring people to come along with us. i mean, this is essentially -- it -- it's really frustrating because, as a former member of congress, i respected every one and understood that they had a district that they had to represent. that may be diverse in thinking, from my district. but, what we did was we actually respected one another. and we understood that, in order to actually get anything done, not only did we have to work with democrats but we had to have a good amount of republican members in the house to debate ideas. and when you are condensing, and pushing people out of even your own party, that does nothing for you, your policies, or this country. >> yeah. i mean, kirsten, building your brand and making money.
and she is making a ton of money. she is raking in a lot of money, on these kind of, you know, stunts. building a brand is not getting anything -- is not, actually, getting something done. >> well, i mean, she is carrying forward this idea -- she -- she really encapsulates trumpism. i mean, this is the same kind of argument that tucker carlson's making, over at fox news, right? this -- this idea that we are being replaced. that -- that americans are being replaced by people from another country. that -- that immigration and undocumented and legal immigration is replacing us. so, there is, unfortunately, in the republican party, an audience for this. and so, the question is, you know, how hmuch does this affec the rest of the republican party? yes, they have come out and condemned her. but as we remember, they were not will -- willing to punish her, in any way. that was left to the democrats. so, i think that she is -- she is carrying the mantle of
trumpism. and so, she is, also, raising her profile in all these other things. but -- but i think that, that is also a critical part of what this is about. this caucus, in particular. >> yeah. kirsten powers, good to see you. thank you. mia love. thank you so much. really appreciate it. just ahead. more on one of the gop congressman we mentioned who have signed onto the so-called america-first caucus. matt gaetz. and what he is telling republican congressmen about the federal investigation he is under, at least those congressmen who are willing to still talk to him. also, new reporting from "the washington post" about how that probe began, when we continue.
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several republican congressmen have told cnn that congressman matt gaetz is privately telling his colleagues that he's being treated unfairly. that he's cooperating with the federal probe about whether he broke sex trafficking laws and had sex with a 17-year-old. a few of his republican colleagues are speaking with gaetz and several more moderate members are donating campaign contributions gaetz gave them. there's a fascinating story about how this investigation unfolded. matt, did i ruin your last name?
>> zapatosky, pretty close. >> i appreciate your forbearance on that. in your article you speak with a local teacher who was running against jason greenberg for tax collector. was falsely accused by greenberg of having an inappropriate relationship with a student. how did this ending up leading to congressman gaetz. >> the federal authorities were investigating mr. greenberg predating this allegation. but mr. greenberg is running against this schoolteacher. authorities would learn he fabricates this allegation against a schoolteacher, fabricates evidence. the schoolteacher and his lawyer put it in front of federal authorities by way of the sheriff's office and federal investigators decide, hey, we have cause to arrest mr. greenberg. and in searching mr. greenberg's devices, his electronic devices, his records, they come across
evidence that points at mr. gaetz and sex trafficking. at that point the investigation into mr. greenberg has nothing to do with sex trafficking. it's about some allegations of financial impropriety that predate the stalking allegation and then he's arrested on a stalking charge. but just in searching through this tax collector's devices, and he's a friend of mr. gaetz, they come across evidence that says, hey, maybe we should investigate mr. gaetz. >> that is just fascinating. you also wrote that jason greenberg was known in florida for strange behavior. he even wore some sort of a badge and used it to pull over a woman who was speeding, according to your reporting? >> yeah, that's right. joel greenberg even before the feds were onto him had developed a reputation. he rises to power very quickly in florida around the time matt gaetz becomes a congressman but his eccentricities become known around the tax collector's that he now leads. he wears a badge around the office.
he institutes open carry, carrying firearms in the tax collector's office. in his neighborhood, according to a police report, he pulls over this woman in what appears to be a private vehicle with a light bar on it, shows a badge like a tax collector badge and yells at her. he alleges that she's speeding. she ends up calling the police saying i got pulled over in this weird way, i don't know what this is about. the police find it wasn't a law enforcement officer who pulled her over, it was joel greenberg. they investigate him but don't charge him for impersonating a police officer. so he was kind of known as an eccentric guy but he was very close and friendly with matt gaetz and then his woes kind of lead federal investigators to be interested in matt gaetz. >> how similar are they? you write they're kind of cut from the same cloth. >> yeah, they are. they're both of both young, brash politicians. they come from wealthy florida families. gaetz' family, his father don gaetz is florida republican
royalty. joel greenberg's family is not politically connected that way but own a wealthy dental practice down there in florida. they're not afraid to speak their mind. most germane to this, people in florida tell us they have been known to party together. matt gaetz would, according to these people, brag about how joel greenberg would set him up with women. they were both kind of in the trump orbit. you know, matt gaetz talked about how joel greenberg would be a great elected representative of office beyond the tax collector. so these guys are similar, and now their legal woes are kind of enmeshed. we don't have any evidence that matt gaetz is connected to the various wrongdoing at the tax collector's office that joel greenberg is accused of, but joel greenberg is indicted on a sex traffic of a minor charge.
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