Skip to main content

tv   CNN Newsroom With Pamela Brown  CNN  April 11, 2021 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

4:00 pm
♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm pamela brown in washington on this sunday. welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. you are live in the "cnn newsroom." great to have you along with us tonight. and we start with a u.s. army officer suing two virginia police officers after a traffic stop gone wrong. the officers allegedly pointed their guns at him, repeatedly peppersprayed him, and pushed him because of what they thought was a missing license plate on his new suv. and it was all caught on camera. the december incident has prompted virginia governor ralph
4:01 pm
northam to conduct police to do an independent investigation. natasha chen is joining me now. what are we learning about the details of this incident? >> reporter: you mentioned the virginia governor. he's now invited lieutenant caron nazario to meet and talk further about the larger issue of police reform after he saw the video and called it very disturbing. and we should warn our viewers, this video is difficult to watch. we had to watch it several times to put this story together it. >> doesn't get any easier. what you're going to see is video from three angles. two angles from the body cameras worn by the police officers in windsor, virginia, and the third video from nazario's personal cell phone. 6:30 p.m., december 5th, 2020. lieutenant caron nazario driving in his army fatigues through this small town of windsor, virginia, saw flashing lights in his rear view mirror. he wasn't sure why he was being pulled over. according to his lawsuit, he
4:02 pm
slowed down and put his blinker on, indicating his intention to pull over, but didn't do so for another minute and 40 seconds in order to find a well-lit area. >> driver, roll the window down! put your hands out the window. turn the vehicle off, put your hands out the window. >> reporter: hearing these different commands while sitting in his car with his seatbelt on, nazario began recording from his own cell phone and put his hands out the window. it turns out officer daniel had not seen the temporary license plate taped to the back window of his brand new chevrolet tahoe. seeing tinted windows and a driver not stopping right away, crocker decided it was a high-risk traffic stop. but this was never explained to nazario, who, for several minutes, continued to ask why he had been pulled over. >> what's going on? >> how many occupants are in your vehicle? >> it's only myself. why are your weapons drawn? what's going on? >> g get out of the car now!
4:03 pm
>> i'm serving this country and this is how i get treated? >> body camera footage shows officer joe gutierrez gun drawn, unfastening what might be his taser. the lawsuit says nazario thought "ride the lightning" meant he could be killed. >> i'm honestly afraid to get out. >> you should be. get out now. >> i have not committed any crimes. >> you are not cooperating at this point right now. you're under arrest for -- you're being detained. >> for a traffic violation i do not have to get out of the vehicle. you haven't even told me why i'm being stopped. >> about two to three minutes in, in, when i attempted to unlock and open the driver's door, the driver assaulted myself by striking my hand away and pulled away from officer gutierrez's grip. but in his own body camera footage, nazario is not seen striking anyone.
4:04 pm
crocker's report also says that gutierrez, quote, gave several more commands to comply with orders or he would be sprayed. but no such warnings could be heard. gutierrez just sprayed nazario, still without any otherer having told nazario what he's been pulled over for. >> take your seatbelt off and get out of the car. >> you made this way more difficult than it had to be. >> get on the ground. >> can you please talk to me about what's going on? why am i being treated like this? >> because you're not cooperating. get on the ground. lie down or you're going to get tazed. >> the officers handcuffed nazario, then stood him back up. he told them his dog was in the backseat and was choking from the pepper spray. medics arrived and the conversation mellowed. >> what would have been a two-minute traffic stop turned into all this. nazario explained why he didn't immediately pull over. >> i was pulling over to a
4:05 pm
well-lit area for my safety and yours. i have respect for law enforcement. >> but gutierrez says that wasn't the problem. >> with the media screwing with the race relations, i get it. so, like, i told you, as far as you not stopping, and you wanted a well-lit spot, that happens all the time. it happens to me a lot. and often times it's minorities. >> and while the officers couldn't understand why nazario didn't get out of the car as instructed, thats aro said he didn't know why he was being stopped. >> i never looked out the window and saw guns blazing immediately. gutierrez eventually told nazario that he had a conversation with the chief of police and was giving him the option to let this all go. >> you don't need this on your record. however, if you want to fight and argue, and i don't mean to
4:06 pm
be disrespectful. you have that right as a citizen if that's what you want. it doesn't change my life either way. >> cnn has not yet been able to reach either police officer at this time. it's not clear if they have legal representation for this lawsuit. now we mentioned the virginia governor earlier. other politicians have also weighed in, including both virginia's senators who stated their outrage this weekend over seeing these videos. they both called for federal police reform. senator warner said the senate is long overdue for taking up and passing a bill called the george floyd justice and policing act. pamela? >> okay. thank you so much, natasha chen, we appreciate it. and joining me now to discuss cnn legal analyst and criminal desattorney joey jackson, and former baltimore interim police commissioner. gentlemen, nice to see you on this sunday evening. obviously, this story, i mean, just seeing that camera footage, it's disturbing, joey.
4:07 pm
this army officer is suing the two police officers for violating his first and fourth amendment rights. does he have a case? >> i really believe he does, pamela. good to be with you. listen, the bottom line is that if you can treat a person of color who is wearing army fatigue like this, you can only imagine if he was wearing a hoodie, you don't stand a chance. so when you look at this, it's beyond troubling, and it keeps happening over and over again. for those officers who are out there every day serving communities, respecting communities, interacting with communities, i applaud you and continue to do what you do. for those who are disrespectful to communities of color, who are terrorizing communities, who are engaging in this kind of behavior, you have to rethink and you have to re-evaluate what you're doing and the effect that it's having. and so at the end of the day when you look and examine this, my late father, may he rest in peace, pamela, as a law enforcement officer, he was a cop. he always told me that with all the equipment that he had with
4:08 pm
him, his night stick and his gun and everything else, the most powerful tool he had was his mouth. if you could be respectful to people in this day and age, you want to de-escalate a scenario, you want to show people courtesy and show them respect. one final point and that's this, pam. this was a person who was pulling into driving the speed limit, if not slower, pulling into a well-lit area. that should inform your judgment if someone's pulling into a gas station with surveillance all around as to what you're encountering. so it's just no need to engage in conduct like this. it furthers the vibe with law enforcement, it's troubling. and it does nothing in this day and age when we're trying to bridge that gap, not further divide it. >> as a former interim police commissioner, is there any way you can justify the behavior of these officers? >> no. there's no way to justify it. the initial stop may have been valid, but then when we get there even on their body cam footage, we can see the tag hanging from the rear of the
4:09 pm
vehicle. so, where do we lose it? we start losing it with the officer escalating the situation. if they say it's a felony stop, you pull the suspect, you pull the driver back to you. you stay in control. you don't advance to the vehicle. they advance, guns, weapons, taser out, and they advance on the vehicle. when the gentleman says that he is scared, listen, de-escalate, calm it down, don't push the situation. and that's exactly what we saw. and then we saw it get to a point where you're using force. you're going to mace a driver sitting behind the wheel of a big suv? no, what are we doing? i mean, we're seeing flaws in the training of police officers across the united states, from chauvin to this incident, we've got problems. >> and what do you do about that? i mean, as we know, police
4:10 pm
departments are cash strapped. they are not getting adequate training. what do you do about that? >> there are ways to do it. in baltimore we set up a training program where we would take incidents from current events and then plug them into our academy. and then we would call officers in. we would actually go to the street, go to the same blocks that they patrolled and put them through these scenarios. you can't tell me that it cost a whole bunch of money to run cops through scenarios that we're seeing on social media. there should be a chauvin training type of model, a training scenario for cops right now. this car stop in virginia, there should be a training scenario based on this car stop. right now these governors, these mayors, you don't have to wait. you tell those police chiefs we're holding you accountable to fix this training in these departments and get it done or
4:11 pm
you're gone. >> anthony, thank you. we appreciate it. and we hope to have you back on the show soon. meantime, week three in the derek chauvin trial resumes tomorrow. did the prosecution meet the burden of proof here? >> you know, pamela, i really think they did. they really put out a very compelling case. remember the case is built upon a couple of pillars. one relates to whether or not the use of force was objectively reasonable. i'll speak to that in a moment. and the other relates to the whole medical issue as to the cause of death. and i think as to the issue of use of force and establishing that, it was objectively unreasonable, what they demonstrated by bringing in law enforcement. they had a 27-year sergeant who indicated there are ways to do things, that's not the way. they brought in lieutenant zimmerman, the senior most officer on the force, a
4:12 pm
supervisor who indicated that's not what you do. and then of course they brought in the chief with regard to talking about the sanctity of life and other experts who just demonstrated that there's a nature and a need to reassess. and so while initially perhaps you do need to use force to resolve the situation, many would argue otherwise, he said he was claustrophobic, he indicated he has anxiety. perhaps you can de-escalate and speak to him. there was not a proper assessment such that the continuation of force was reasonable. pivoting to the issue of the medical status, what happens here is that if you're the prosecution, all you have to demonstrate is that the knee to the neck was a substantial cause of death, not that it was the sole cause. you see the defense making arguments as to covid, arguments as to heart disease and hypertension, arguments as to blockage of arteries, arguments as to methamphetamines and fentanyl. all of these things, they may very well be contributing factors and relevant, but are
4:13 pm
they the substantial cause if you look at how mr. floyd appeared in that cup foods earlier and an hour later he was dead, i would suggest to you that the prosecution met the burden to establish what the substantial cause was, and that was the knee to the neck. so in answer to your question, i thought their case was very compelling, and i believe to this point they've proven it indeed. >> all right, joey jackson, thank you so much. still ahead on this sunday evening, should pregnant women get a coronavirus vaccine? for some, it is not an easy decision. one woman decided to get the shot. i'm going to talk to her and to a doctor who recently had a baby. plus, texas could soon have a law that bans drive-through voting. i'm going to ask the state senator behind the bill why it's needed, ahead. as a musician living with diabetes, fingersticks can be a real challenge. that's why i use the freestyle libre 14 day system. with a painless, onesecond scan i can check my glucose without fingersticks. now i'm managing my diabetes better
4:14 pm
and i've lowered my a1c from 8.2 to 6.7. you can do it without fingersticks, too. ask your doctor for a prescription for the freestyle libre 14 day system. and visit freestyle to try it for free. we can't make you leave your acne alone. but we can help get rid of the spots that your acne left behind. differin dark spot correcting serum has the maximum-strength dark spot-fading power you can get without a prescription. do things differin. at philadelphia, we know what makes you can get without a prescription. the perfect schmear of cream cheese. the recipe we invented over 145 years ago and me...the world's best, and possibly only, schmelier. philadelphia. schmear perfection. (vo) conventional thinking doesn't disrupt the status quo. which is why t-mobile for business uses unconventional thinking to help your business realize new possibilities. only one 5g partner offers unmatched network, support, and value-without any trade offs.
4:15 pm
♪ pepto bismol coats and soothes your stomach for fast relief and get the same fast relief in a delightful chew with pepto bismol chews. the harry's razor is not the same. our razors have five german engineered blades designed to stay sharp, so your eighth shave is as smooth as your first. and we never upcharge you for high quality. harry's. feeling sluggish or weighed down?nd at
4:16 pm
it could be a sign that your digestive system isn't working at it's best taking metamucil everyday can help. metamucil psyllium fiber, gels to trap and remove the waste that weighs you down. it also helps lower cholesterol and slows sugar absorption to promote healthy blood sugar levels. so you can feel lighter and more energetic metamucil. support your daily digestive health. and try metamucil fiber thins. a great tasting and easy way to start your day.
4:17 pm
seeing blood when you brush or floss can be a sign of early gum damage. new parodontax active gum repair kills plaque bacteria at the gum line to help keep the gum seal tight. new parodontax active gum repair toothpaste. well, first the good news. always good to start off with the good news. the u.s. recorded a daily high
4:18 pm
saturday with 4.6 million doses of covid vaccine reported. given, that's 500,000 more than the old daily record reached the previous saturday. but then there is this. for the third straight week new cases and hospitalizations are increasing among people who haven't been vaccinated. michigan health officials now saying the state is in the middle of another surge. officials are pleading with the biden administration to send more vaccine. last hour, i talked with principal deputy press secretary karine jean-pierre about why the white house won't do it. >> we have offered other ways to be helpful. i can't stress this enough. they have to do this in a fair and equitable way. we are in the middle of this process. we still have a lot more people to vaccinate. so we're offering personnel help. you mentioned the federal help that we're bringing down to michigan to help with to be vaccinators. we're helping with testing as
4:19 pm
well, and also therapeutic means to be helpful in this state. this is not to let the states figure out at all. we have been working very closely with governors and state local officials. that is something that we've been doing on day one as we put forth a comprehensive strategy on how to get our vaccination program out there across the country. >> so, again, that was karine jean-pierre talking with me last hour of the white house press office. now the question on whether to get the covid vaccine for women who are pregnant or want to get pregnant or fathers. they add the scientific data is limited. add disinformation to the mix, and it can be a really tough choice. i want to bring in our cnn medical analyst dr. leana wen who is a new mother herself. and we have a council a woman in north carolina who chose to get
4:20 pm
the covid vaccine while pregnant. ladies, great to see you. i've been looking forward to this conversation. i know i have many friends anecdotally who have been talking about this. you went very public. you tweeted not only that you decided to get the covid vaccine. but you also included a picture of the shot going into your arm. tell us what led to your decision to do that? >> thank you, pamela, for having me. i decided to take a covid vaccine using an acronym. benefits, risk, alternatives, intuition, and time. i looked at benefits. i asked myself a question, what are the benefits here? that's when i reached out to experts like dr. wen and my
4:21 pm
obgyn to arrive at the decision. and, in my case, really the benefits were that it will provide me the comfort to protect me and my baby, and also it will give me hope to help beat this virus and doing my part. and, most importantly, it will give me the freedom from anxiety and fear of living for almost six months of catching this vaccine. so those were the benefits after speaking with my obgyn and experts. then i looked at risk. so, the question was, well, what are the risks associated with taking this vaccine? well, the answer is all i could find that unforeseen, rare complications, which are possibly nonexistent. that's all i could find for
4:22 pm
risk. then i looked at alternatives. what are the alternatives here? the alternatives, if i do not want to catch covid-19 and go through major pregnancy complications, and, at the same time, not take the risk of unforeseen rare complication, the only alternative is to seek quarantine till i give birth. well, in our case, that was not really possible for me and my family because of the high risk with my husband being a dentist and high exposure and him potentially being a carrier and also because of my service on the charlotte city council. then i looked at the intuition. what is it that my intuition tells me that is best for me? well, from my intuition, i can't, in assessing the risk, i kept telling myself that i cannot accept the risk of contracting covid-19 and
4:23 pm
developing major complications related to pregnancy just for the sake of unforeseen risk that may not even exist. >> well, we're running out of time. dimple, i want to hear more of what you have to say. but i do need to hear from dr. wen. because not only did you have a baby at the beginning of this pandemic. you have since been vaccinated. tell us, what are the concerns for pregnant women taking the vaccine and side effects they may experience. i think pregnant women who are nervous about this, they say there is limited data. but there are women who might worry how it could impact their fertility. tell us what they need to know. educate us. >> absolutely. so i would separate these two groups into the two categories, women who want to become pregnant but are not pregnant yet, and women who are already pregnant. so for women who are not yet pregnant, there is no link whatsoever to any concerns about fertility. this is actually disinformation that some anti-vaccine activists
4:24 pm
have been spreading. so i think it's really important to know women, people who are thinking about becoming pregnant, there is no reason for them not to get the vaccine. for women who are pregnant, they were not initially included in the vaccine trials. so we don't have direct data. however, we now have tens of thousands of women who have chosen to get the vaccine and who are pregnant. and it's really important as the councilwoman alluded to, there have been no adverse safety signals in this population. and so any risk of having the vaccine in pregnancy is purely theoretical. and that must be weighed against the very real risk of contracting covid-19. and it is true that pregnant women are at higher risk for having severe outcomes compared to nonpregnant women. so they are at higher risk for being hospitalized, for being in the icu. also there is a higher rate of pre-term birth. so that is a real risk that women need to think about in consultation with their doctors. >> if they get covid.
4:25 pm
all right, dr. leana wen, dimple, best of luck with the rest of your pregnancy and with labor and delivery and the journey ahead for you. we'll be right back. is the world's longest-lasting, we tested it against our competitor's best battery. (meowing) (clicking) and energizer ultimate lithium wins again! energizer, backed by science. matched by no one. ♪ it's grilled cheese time. ♪ ♪ yeah, it's time for grilled cheese. ♪ ♪ after we make grilled cheese, ♪ ♪ then we're eating grilled cheese. ♪ ♪ because it's time. ♪ ♪ yeah. ♪ ♪ time for grilled cheese. ♪ (judith) at fisher investments, we do things differently and other money managers don't understand why. ♪ yeah. ♪ (money manager) because our way works great for us! (judith) but not for your clients. that's why we're a fiduciary, obligated to put clients first. (money manager) so, what do you provide? cookie cutter portfolios? (judith) nope, we tailor portfolios to our client's needs. (money manager) but you do sell investments that earn you high commissions, right?
4:26 pm
(judith) we don't have those. (money manager) so what's in it for you? (judith) our fees are structured so we do better when our clients do better. at fisher investments we're clearly different. open talenti and raise the jar. to gelato made from scratch. raise the jar to all five layers. raise the jar to the best gelato... you've ever tasted. talenti. raise the jar. we can't make you leave your acne alone. but we can help get rid of the spots that your acne left behind. differin dark spot correcting serum has the maximum-strength dark spot-fading power you can get without a prescription. do things differin. ♪ (car horn) ♪ (splash) ♪ turn today's dreams into tomorrow's trips... with millions of flexible booking options.
4:27 pm
all in one place. expedia. gillette proglide. five blades and a pivoting flexball designed to get virtually every hair on the first stroke. so you're ready for the day with a fresh face for a fresh start. for a limited time get a 5th cartridge free. ok everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. whoo-hoo! great tasting ensure with 9 grams of protein, 27 vitamins and minerals, and nutrients to support immune health.
4:28 pm
4:29 pm
well, a stunning new poll found that a majority of republicans simply do not accept the results of the 2020 election. 55% of republicans falsely believe joe biden's victory was the result of illegal voting or rigging. 60% of republicans agreed, again incorrectly, that the election was stolen from trump.
4:30 pm
i'm joined now by former republican congressman denver riggleman. you were one of the few republicans who warned against of spread of these lies, these conspiracy theories. what's the solution here? >> i think we continue to fight. and you know, pamela, and thanks for having me on. it's not slowing down. there's three things i want to point out quickly, and these might surprise you, the last one especially. the first one president trump mentioned stop the steal or the election was stolen at the rnc dinner for the big donors. here in virginia every single governor's candidate is running on top type of election integritiy commission. we have a committee here a huge one here in my district is having mike flynn come to speak for $20,000 at a reagan dinner right here in our district. i've been warning people that this is still here, it's not going away. it's very difficult to argue with crazy or to argue with these type of fantasies or conspiracy theories that are just really metastasizing in
4:31 pm
certain areas, especially here in my district. so, pamela, i thought the use of law law-enforced facts and getting out there and being loud about this would be helpful, but i'm not seeing a whole lot of changes, and it's concerning. >> right. that's the thing. they're basing these ideas not on facts. so how do you combat it with facts if it's not even rooted in fact? how do you stop this? you have the former president fueling it. republican politicians, mainstream conservative media keep pushing lies about the election and the capitol attack. what have you learned about combating this and, you know, what to do in the future? because this could have serious repercussions. >> i think a couple things, pamela. we do need some kind of disinformation center that's based on the cdc, something like a centers for disinformation
4:32 pm
defense that can drag these bad players out into the sunlight because that is the best disinfect. but the problem that we're having is it's following the money. marjorie taylor greene raising millions or boegert. the money portion i think is the most important thing to identify. the issue is there's hundreds of millions of dollars that can be raised based on stop the steal methodologies. these people are grifters, they're carnival barkers, and they're snake oil salesmen. and they sort of rope these individuals in, they take their money and they laugh all the way to the bank and they think about how these people are. we've got to follow the money. we've got to nip it in the bud with something where people start identifying these individuals as the grifters they are. and the fact is they're just carnival barkers. >> what do you say to this woman
4:33 pm
who our donie o' sullivan spoke to? >> we can't even have a dialogue. how do you have a fact-based policy-driven conversation if someone believes the world is flat or that 9/11 was an inside job or that there are democratic cabalist satanists that are sucking children's blood. it destroys families, it destroys policy, but it destroys our ability to have some kind of normal conversation. and i think conspiracy theories and disinformation might be the biggest challenge we have in the united states right now. and we better nip it in the bud or i'm telling you there's more violence to come, and we're going to have a very i would say
4:34 pm
awful 2022 election cycle when you have these sort of fantasies against facts. and fantasies are winning in the fundraising race right now. >> that is alarming. let's keep this conversation going. thank you for coming on to shine a light on what you've been up to. and tonight on "cnn newsroom," the head of iran's atomic energy agency is calling an incident in a nuclear facility a terrorist action. who they claim is behind it, up next. u could get all sorts of he policy perks like the claim-free discount. go three years without a claim and get a discount. (neighbor) just by phoning it in? (burke) just phone it in. (painter 1) yeah, just phone it in and save money for being claim-free. (neighbor) even if i switch to farmers today?! (painter 2) yep, three years claim-free with any home insurance. (painter 3) i'm phoning it in and saving money for literally doing nothing. (burke) get your policy perks by calling 1-800-farmers. go ahead, phone it in. (grandpa) phone it in, why don't ya?! ♪ w(vo)e farmers. bum-pa-dum, bumideas exist inside you, electrify you.
4:35 pm
they grow from our imagination, but they can't be held back. they want to be set free. to make the world more responsible, and even more incredible. ideas start the future, just like that. the harry's razor is not the same. our razors have five german engineered blades designed to stay sharp, so your eighth shave is as smooth as your first. and we never upcharge you for high quality. harry's. available in store and at dignity. this thing you can neither see nor measure... ...but that demands the return of small moments illness attempts to steal. ♪ dignity demands a rapid covid test, ♪ because we all need an answer to move forward. ♪
4:36 pm
dignity demands your heart stays connected to your doctor, so you know it's beating as it should. ♪ it demands a better understanding of your glucose levels, so you can enjoy movie night. ♪ and knowing your baby is getting the nutrition he needs, no matter how you choose to feed him. dignity is not effortless nor easy. at abbott, we fight for it every day, developing life-changing technologies. because dignity demands it. ♪ the new samsung galaxy s21 this looks different. it is. show me. just hit record! see that? you're filming in 8k. that's cinema quality. so... you can pull photos straight from video. impressive. but will it last a whole trip? you'll have battery all day.
4:37 pm
and then more. this is different. told you. ♪ i'm still exploring what's next. and still going for my best. even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin, i'm reaching for that. eliquis. eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. plus has significantly less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis is fda-approved and has both. what's next? i'm on board. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines.
4:38 pm
tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. ask your doctor about eliquis. and if your ability to afford your medication has changed, we want to help. in his speech to high-powered donors last night, former president trump again harped on the big lie that the 2020 election wasn't free and fair and secure and that his second term was stolen from him. state republicans nationwide have used that lie as the basis for new laws making it harder to vote. in texas one such bill is poised to become law. republicans there are defending the measure. here's texas lieutenant governor dan patrick this week.
4:39 pm
>> nothing has changed in the election code regarding early voting. nothing has changed. nothing has changed for mail-in ballots, election day, or early voting. and anyone who says different is lying to you. >> okay. that is false. we're not lying to you. this law would limit early voting hours from what they were before it. >> would ban dropboxes, and it would prohibit drive-through voting, which was used in early voting last year. i'm joined now by the author of this bill, texas state senator brian hughes. nice to have you on. >> thank you for having me. >> so, this bill bans dropboxes and drive-through voting, two methods that make it easier to vote and were widely used in harris county, a huge county with around 2.7 million registered voters. why are texas lawmakers like yourself taking away methods of
4:40 pm
voting that make it easier to vote? >> dropboxes, drive-through voting, 24-hour voting not in the texas election code, never been even discussed. one county in one election tried that, and the results are not so good. they tell us they're not sure all the votes got counted. we have evidence from drive-through voting that they didn't have a secret ballot being passed around in the car, no poll watchers, no security. the safest way is vote is voting in place. and of course mail ballots for 65 or over, overseas, or disabled folks. but, beyond that, we like voting in the polling place. and even after senate bill 7, we'll have much more expansive early voting requirements. >> so let's talk a little bit about this. first of all in terms of the pollwatchers at these locations, they are supposed to be there. they are spoetzed to have the same security as a polling location where you would go to
4:41 pm
vote. and you say drive-through voting has never been allowed in texas. but that's not true. the texas code stipulates early voting in allowed within moveable structures. the texas election code does not explicitly outlaw drive-through polling locations, plus a conservative judge ruled that drive-through voting was legally permissible in texas for early voting based on that code. so why ban something that the most populous county used successfully and securely in 2020 and the court allowed? why are you laughing? why not set conditions to be available throughout the state instead? >> oh, i'm not laughing. i'm listening to what you're saying and i want to respond appropriately because that's not exactly what happened. the election code does not provide for drive-through voting. >> this is structure. it allows for certain structures for early voting. and the judge said that the drive-through voting would be a structure. and this is a conservative judge. but go ahead, i don't want to get too in the weeds on this. >> thank you very much. the federal judge that looked at these measures harris county
4:42 pm
said that the plaintiffs that brought the suit lacked standing. so he couldn't rule. but if he could he would have a problem with them. >> on election day, he made clear, yeah, i've read it. >> that's exactly right. i want to be clear on that. so drive-through voting had never been done in texas, even the folks in harris county will admit this is the first time that it happened. the legislation sets policy. local officials can't make up the rules as they go along. in our system the legislature makes the laws and the local governments have to follow them. and, again, drive-through vote wag not successful. the numbers didn't line up. there was no secret ballot in many cases. >> so let's talk about this, because by your standard, look, governor abbott limited dropboxes in 2020, which was not explicitly in the law, and the courts upheld that. so you have that. but also, look, the local election administrators were interpreting the law and what to do during a pandemic. and that is why in harris county in particular they came up with
4:43 pm
these measures. here's what one of the administrators said to cnn earlier today about this, why they decided to put these methods into place. >> the idea came because if you can do groceries drive through, if you can do banking drive through, why can't you do that in-person voting drive through? 127,000 people used that in november, and we used it in july of last year. we used it in december of last year. we're going to use it may of this year. it's something that is working, that voters like, and it's being taken away without explanation. >> so, why take power away from local election officials to decide how best to administer elections in their area? >> i'm not questioning their motives. they say it was for covid-19. i'll take their word for it. the legislature sets the law for the whole state. locals follow that law. picking up groceries and going to the bank is not quite as important as voting. secret ballot matters to us in texas. if you're jammed in a car with someone looking over your shoulder, you're not casting a
4:44 pm
secret ballot. also, testimony was that pollwatchers weren't there to make sure rules were being followed. >> hold on. but really quick, if secret ballots were so important, why is texas under this bill allowing pollwatchers to use their own discretion and decide to videotape someone filling out a ballot if they're getting assistance? would that -- doesn't that undercut that argument? >> we had testimony from democrats, a prosecutor in the rio grande valley, failed democratic candidates who talked about cheating. they tell us folks come in and claim to be helping voters. but fact they're intimidating them and forcing their will on them. voters came to us and complained afterwards. >> but they could be intimidated by the pollwatchers. can you see that that can happen? >> they're not there to tell them how to vote, nor can they.
4:45 pm
>> yeah, but they're videotaping them. >> they're videotaping -- the pollwatchers are allowed to videotape what's going on in the process. they can not share that. they can only release it to the secretary of state if there's reasonable belief it violates the law. pollwatchers are there from the republican and democratic party, all candidates. they're the eyes and ears of the public. we've had cases in texas where pollwatchers say irregularity took place. that's the idea. it's about having evidence. >> but they might fill out affidavits. video evidence could go viral. it could get out. and you could misconstrue it. people could be intimidated by that. do you see that argument? >> there are pollwatchers there from both sides. >> that is true. i'm talking about video. >> the other party can expose them. pollwatchers are there from all parties from multiple candidates. we're not talking about just democrats or just republicans. pollwatchers are the eyes and ears of the public. >> right. >> this is not a new concept. this has been this way for a
4:46 pm
while. >> but what is a new concept is allowing them to videotape voters while they're filling out their ballots. i was reading through the bill, as it is earlier, and it's all founded on this idea of preventing fraud it. >> says, this was enacted solely to prevent fraud in the electoral process. but the texas attorney general's office put 22,000 hours into trying to dig up vote yore fraud and only found 16 cases. that is statistically insignificant. to what end can they put restrictions on voting when the instances of fraud are statistically insignificant, and you risk disenfranchising voters who have a constitutionally protected right to vote? >> there are over 400 open cases of investigations of voter fraud by the attorney general right now because of covid-19 protocols. >> not from the 2020 election. people filling out wrong
4:47 pm
addresses. how does that justify taking away -- >> there are over 400 open cases. let me give you some details in the 2018 election cycle. please remember our legislature meets every two years. so when problems come up we try to deal with them in. 2017 the legislature passed a mail ballot reform bill passed with bipartisan support. i filed senate bill 9. here we are again. >> i'm talking about voter fraud. this is about the 2020 election and what you're trying to do with this bill. >> so i understand you want to talk about the national debate and about georgia. this is about texas, and texas elections. we had democrats testify under oath about cheating, with mail ballots, with people claiming to offer assistance. we responded to what democrats told us under oath in front of the senate committee. >> are you really saying that this bill is predicated on what democrats had testified to? democrats have come out and said that it will disproportionately hurt minorities in texas because more than half of those voting at those drive-through locations
4:48 pm
were minorities, according to one democratic lawmaker. >> i'm not -- >> on why these voting methods are insecure or are unsecure, or where you see the fraud in these voting -- can you show us -- >> i certainly can. when i say democrats, i don't mean the politicians repeating talking points from washington. i mean on the ground process, i'm talking about law enforcement. in my district let me give you an example. in my district in east texas i have a county commissioner under criminal indictment with some other folks for mail ballot fraud. now this is a democratic county commissioner. the complaint was brought by a democrat. they happened to both be african-american. these rules apply to everyone. >> they're being prosecuted. >> when we have sworn -- yes, they are. when we have sworn testimony before the legislature, we try and address those problems. in '17 and '19 and this year, i understand there's this national debate, and i'm not part of that. this is about making the system in texas better for everyone.
4:49 pm
we have the same objections as ten years ago. >> to what end do you use statistically insignificant number of voter fraud cases, in this case 16 minor cases in texas after 22,000 hours. to what end do you use that as justification for a bill that even american airlines has come out with its statement saying, make it's harder to vote, saying that we believe we should break down barriers as to diversity, equity, and inclusion in our society, not create them? what do you say to that? >> as far as this bill goes and as far as the number of investigations going on, you're relying on one story before the process is over. there's over 400 open cases of voter fraud in texas by the a.g. today. that's a fact. it's documented. there's no question about that. >> why did the secretary of state say the 2020 election was secure and smooth then? why did they say that if there's all this concern to justify this bill? >> election fraud didn't start in 2020. it's not going to end. it's a process texas and other
4:50 pm
dates have dealt with for a long time. when we go to other areas of the law and try to clean it up, we don't get these objections. this is part of a political discussion out of washington. what we're trying to do is make texas law better for everyone with voter i.d. we heard the same thing. >> but in order to make it better for everyone -- >> we were told if you require photo i.d. you're going to discourage voters, what happened? we put in voter i.d. and turnout increased because when people know the system is fair, know their votes are going to count, they're encouraged to turn out. that's what we want. this idea about turnout, republicans have done well in turnout elections in texas. >> we want to make it fair for everyone. >> are you going to do this after every election to keep putting bills on the table in the name of voter fraud when the examples that i look through
4:51 pm
today are statistically insignificant. like i said the 16 were about people putting wrong addresses on their applications or ballots. >> i understand those examples. >> no one i think wants fraud. i don't think anyone wants fraud, people want to have confidence in their vote but i am taking it from the secretary of state's office that said this election was secure and smooth in the state of texas so why is there this bill with these measures that many activists make it harder to vote and pose more restrictions and had poll watchers taking at the polls. >> you are relying on one article. >> from the 2020 election? >> this is not about 2020. i want to make sure our viewers know that. i am citing the secretary of
4:52 pm
state and ken paxton's office and what they have uncovered. go ahead. >> i am referring to your statistics of the number of cases and hours. that's one article and out of context. here is what i am saying. when democrats and republicans -- >> out of 11 million folks. when democrats and republicans came to us and testify under oath, here is the problem, here is how the people are cheating and how this elect affected. we respond. we are talking about property accusers and on the democratic side and the republican side. that's good texas company, they made some general statements about voting. we agree voting is important and to count accurately. very few statements i saw from companies referred to senate bill 7. when they did, they could not name a specific concern. a generalization coming out of washington. i did not see a specific concern about the bill. if anybody had concerns, i am going to len. >> i can tell you they strongly
4:53 pm
oppose to these bills. the concerns are taken away these votiing methods made it easier to vote. >> what's the specific provision? >> they did not say -- they said we strongly oppose to this bill and others like it. >> they don't have to lay it out. you know what the issues are. you know that limiting and banning drop boxes, banning drive-thru voting. this is the job of journalists to scrutinize things like this. those are the two issues. blocking and the banning the drop boxes and allowing poll watchers to video tape people while they are filling out ballots. those are some of the most concerning measures. >> drop boxes. >> we believe it is not a radical concept that ballot should be handed to a live person and not sitting over
4:54 pm
night. ballots if they are turned in should be handed into a live person. we are going to listen to these american airlines and companies. we'll listen to groups from the left and right. ultimately if these companies don't like policies in texas, i hear there are plenty of vacancies in california. >> are you okay with american airlines moving to california in that case? >> they can make decisions based on texas being the ninth large economy in the world with a great work force. >> there is no indication they're going to leave. are you willing to make more changes? are you willing to push on these changes like what these corporations say like american airlines. >> we make changes on the floor and it is a process. we have a hearing and people testify. we listen to them. the bill changes and go along and we get better. >> we did make changes with
4:55 pm
people of disability not having to get a doctor's note anymore 6789. texas state senator brian hughes, we appreciate that. we'll be right back. >> thank you. yep! bye! that's why we love skechers max cushioning footwear. they've maxed out the cushion for extreme comfort. it's like walking on clouds! big, comfy ones! (vo) conventional thinking doesn't disrupt the status quo. oh yeah! which is why t-mobile for business uses unconventional thinking to help your business realize new possibilities. only one 5g partner offers unmatched network, support, and value-without any trade offs. open talenti and raise the jar. to gelato made from scratch. raise the jar to all five layers. raise the jar to the best gelato... you've ever tasted. talenti. raise the jar.
4:56 pm
to prove our aa battery is the world's longest-lasting, we tested it against our competitor's best battery. (meowing) (clicking) and energizer ultimate lithium wins again! energizer, backed by science. ever since darrell's family started using gain flings, e their laundry smells moree. amazing than ever. [darrell's wife] uh, honey, isn't that the dog's towel? [dog sfx] hey, mi towel, su towel. there's more gain scent plus oxi boost and febreze odor remover in every fling. gain. seriously good scent. love the scent of gain flings? then you'll swoon for long lasting gain scent beads.
4:57 pm
4:58 pm
4:59 pm
the u.s. is breaking record as it races to vaccinate americans against coronavirus. the cdc announced more than 6.6 million people received the shot on saturday. we have the strongest policies in place. we are seeing a surge because of these variants. >> the speed of the national
5:00 pm
committee retreat with dounors t mar-a-lago. trump called mitch mcconnell quote, "ad dumb son of a --." >> we need to get beyond that. i am pamela brown in washington. welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. you are live in th"the cnn newsroom." we learned 187 million vaccine doses have gone into the arms of the u.s. moving nearly five times faster than the global average. the reality is herd reality is not here and the threat is n not over. paul sandoval has more


info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on