tv Erin Burnett Out Front CNN April 2, 2021 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT
going to get to take many people getting vaccinated. >> dr. wen thank you so much for joining us. to our viewers thanks very much for watching. i am wolf blitzer in "the situation room," erin burnett w the "out front" starts now. one soldier killed. powerful testimonies in the trial of the ex-officer charged with killing george floyd. cha cha a new voice mail obtained by "outfront" to matt gaetz that she says quote, "so weird." >> breaking news, attacked
again. flags at the white house and the united states capitol half staff after a deadly attack at the capitol ground. a police officer was murdered. williams and billy evans. he died in the line of duty today killed by the attacker. another officer remains hospitalized at this moment. and we are at this hour learning new details of the 25-year-old suspect who allegedly rammed his car into the barrier and hitting two officers. he posted a video on social media with the caption "the u.s. government is the number one enemy of the people." today's attack comes just 86 days after the deadly insurrection on january 6th and horrible reality that it comes less than two weeks of all that fencing that surrounded the capitol after the insurrection finally removed. that fencing may have prevented
the suspect from getting as close as he did. to hear the news of another officer killed and protecting the united states capitol just three months after january 6th is devastating for the families of the officers and the capitol police force. one of the holyist iest day of year, shimon prokupecz is live with us. what more are you learning of the suspect. >> it is coming from his social media postings, instagram and facebook and just two hours before this incident before he was zhotshot and killed there w postings on instagram. he believed he was suffering because of the fbi. they're looking at some of these
postings a short time before this incident and also links to the nation of islam, they're looking at links and postings on his instagram where he's linking to stories from that group. that's something investigators are looking at as well. i want to show you behind me much of the scene is clear. you can see the car that was used is not here and a lot of the investigators are still here. they're taking photos but much of what we saw here earlier has been cleared out. this is now going to be a big puzzle that the fbi needs to put together and also law enforcement here on the ground from the mpd and the capitol. police are trying to figure out what set this individual off today. that's going to be a key for investigators but certainly they know a lot. they know he recently lost his job and they also are going through all these postings now which are given some idea into
this individual. some of the trouble he was having in his life and a lot of it recently, erin. >> all right, shimon. thank you very much. i want to go to jessica dean. this horrifying attack does come less than three months after the deadly insurrection. the memory which are still so raw and another capitol police officer lost his life. >> yeah. >> they're so raw and just under the surface here on capitol hill and now today just a moment ago we saw that flag that isover the united states capitol. a police officer died in the line of duty protecting this place and the people who work in it. it is truly devastating both of the capitol police and also the community of people who work
here. when you get up to the hill, you see the same faces day in and day out. i was talking to some of the staff and some are heartbroken we are at this place again. we are mourning for their life. i was up oon the senate side and the announcement blaired out that we were to stay away from windows and doors and there was a lockdown in place. everybody was nervous at that point. we didn't know how serious it was. i made my way down so i can get a view of what you were seeing on the screen there that this was very serious. we have learned officer billy evans dying as a result of what took place here today, dying in the line of duty. i can't underscore enough of the heaviness and the cloud that hangs over the capitol and the
capitol police who have done a lot to streamline information to make sure they are on top of threats and of course the national guards have been here and that fencing that came down two weeks ago. there is typically capitol police officers, this is a familiar route for a lot of people and i have to underscore to you how heavy hearts here are on capitol hill tonight. a lot of devastated people. >> thank you jessica, and of course the devastation of officer evans losing his life after the suspect ramming in the barrier and stabbing him. i want to juliet kind.
let me start with his social media and what we know about him. he posted on social media. "the u.s. government is the number one enemy of black people," he's african-american, the attacker. how much does this help with the motive or state of mind? >> it all helps. his own words are relevant and his perception of both his situation and what he thought the government was doing to him may explain why he picked a particular target. there will be questions whether he was politically motivated. i know this is going to be sort of seems like it is going to be threading needles. let me be clear here. because you hate the government does not mean in action is t terrorism. you have to promote violence in p pursuit of a political goal.
may be he has a combination of mental issues and extraissues o government that's unrelated to a specific ideology. that's why we wait and no one should use this for political purposes. we do not know at this stage but his words are relevant. >> joining me now is former chief charles ramsey. >> this is a tragedy for your city and of course for the capitol police force but it comes as i said two weeks after those barriers. barriers that so many people said they wanted down because of freedom to access the capitol and this horrible thing happened and probably would not happened if you were not able to get through the barriers. >> you know those barriers would not have stayed up forever. we just don't know. eventually they would have come
down. that does not minimize the fact that there needs to be changes in terms of the security in and around the capitol and general honoree and rotary ports with a lot of recommendation and i hope congress takes it serious and look at those recommendations because there has to be a change in physical security and technology that could be leveraged to help with the security of the capitol. nothing is going to be full proof 100%. they can do better than what they are doing now. that's bottom line. status quo is not acceptable. you know when we look at the fencing that you got now. you don't want to see that. it does not mean there should be no fencing around the capitol. the question is how should it be? does it look more like rod iron type of fencing around the white house? i don't know the answer to that. something has to be done. >> juliet, other things we are
learning and shimon is reporting that the attacker believes the federal government targeted him with quote, "mind control." these are his posts on social media. i bring them up because obviously he got serious mental issues. we are going to learn more but to identify this is somebody that could be a threat to the life of capitol police officers. >> absolutely. the individual threat is almost impossible and very difficult and the number of people who would view congress as a thread or the government per se as a threat. as chief ramsey says you have to do a combination of things, it is called layers of defenses. i am curious if they knew anything to share information with the feds, you get defensive
pro p posturing on the physical site that's layered and you also have, you are basically you are not messing around. the capitol police are not messing around and you can't blame them. if they are going to be under consistent threat with anyone or motivation who would want to approach congress at this state is under warning for the white house and as they are with the supreme court. >> phil mudd joins the conversation as well. you know what he said about the fbi and the cia is sort of out to get him, the attacker. he said "to be honest these past few years have been tough and past few months have been tougher. i have been tried with the
biggest and unimaginable tests of my life." it seems this person is mentally ill and it seems his trouble were building on this unfortunate crescendo. >> this is the question -- is there an indication of violence. based on what you were talking about and without an indication of violence, have you asked state local and law enforcement to intervene? the second question is tougher but i think more intriguing and important for america is when the fbi or the state local and police officials do interviews tonight or look at his social media, do they see indication there were triggers and what we would call a red flag --
[ inaudible ] >> i am not sure if there is anything we can do and i am not hearing anything that would be a trigger. >> chief ramsey, they have multiple officers killed in the past three months because of attacks on the capitol. and you know this officer today, officer evans goes to work on good friday and he's stabbed to death. it is horrific. i can't imagine what it is like for all of these officers right now and how they must feel. what are you hearing? >> well, it is very traumatic. i was the chief in d.c. back in 1998 when two officers were shot and killed inside the u.s. capitol. this is the first tim time -- sicknick was the second killed in the line of duty since then. it is not the kind of agency
where you expect to have occasional deaths. philadelphia is a great example. i spent eight years here, i lost eight officers in the line of duty. and so you know it is just a different environment. this officer evans was an 18-year veteran. he's one of those guys and everybody on the job knew because he's been there for so long. it is going to have a serious impact on them. one last thing, i spoke with a very senior official of the metropolitan police department. no one was stabbed at that location. those officers were struck by the vehicle. he saw the video, the car came in at a high rate of speed, struck them and sent them airborne. when he got out of the car, other officers shot him with a knife. earlier reports had them being stabbed. the second officer is stable.
he's over medstar with multiple injuries but he should vsurvive. >> i am glad you can add all of those. thank god to the officer in the hospital. obviously a lot of injuries but going to live and going to be okay. juliette, he goes after the car and goes after the officers with the knife. we know he was shot when he did that. what do you make of a knife being his weapon of choice? >> it was unique. but as the chief was saying. his weapon of choice was an automobile and we have seen it before. likely him coming out with a knife, we heard people talk about, suicide by police officer, we don't know what his intentions were if he wanted to get shot.
the aking police chief did say that they did tell him to stand down. they didn't just start shooting. he kept running and their use of force was completely appropriate at this stage. the knife may have been a way to sort of continue the terror tactic and the response was appropriate. >> phil, their restraint given what juliette was saying, after two officers hit and flown in the air and one died and the other in the hospital. he gets out of the car and runs. they tell him to stand down and they still waited. >> that's remarkable. there is a couple of issues here. one is a training issue. if you are in that situation you need somebody who's gone through hours of training to understand what the protocols are. the second issue is remembering what the mentality of people in this business are and that's public safety. the responsibility is when for
sure the safety of officers. i realize that this person has as knife but you don't want to kill him. this is really significant. when the police are talking about the motivations of the individual, the knife stole me instantly a lot. number one, not a lot of preplanning. if you are doing a terrorism event, you want to maximize casualties, you want a gun. number two, conspiracies. if a number of people involved in the attack, how do we maximize the impact? i understand why police are saying this was unlikely to be a terrorist incident. the knife tells me nobody sat back to maximize the event. >> i appreciate all three of
you. thank you point. >> thank you. next our breaking news continues. we are live outside the hospital where one of those capitol police officers taken. where chief ramsey was telling you his condition. we'll hear exactly from the hospital. another tragedy that the capitol police department endured. the trial of the ex-officer killing george floyd, top prosecutors delivering a devastating blow to their defense. >> what was your view during that time? >> totally unnecessary. >> a bomb shell report of congressman matt gaetz as one of his staffers quits tonight. at northwestern mutual, our version of financial planning helps you live your dreams today.
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>> this has been an extremely differ difficult time for u.s. capitol police after the event on january 6th and the event that occurred today. i ask you keep all of our capitol police families in your thoughts and prayers. pete, what more can you tell us? >> reporter: a sad day today. also the united states secret service. as the per session left and went down to 23rd street here. i saw a female police officer standing at the top of 23rd here
standing in solemn salute. i saw the chief also here hugging other officers clearly. as that per session left here, it revealed it was also part crime scene tapes in front of the ambulance bay here and you can cease police cruisers and homicide detectives from the police department going through with latex gloves and taking photographs of that car and unclear connection of all of this. although it was relatively a far drive from the capitol on the scene of this two miles. things are pretty busy in washington because oit is the cherry blossoms festival. >> the other officer is injured. what are you able to tell us
about his condition right now? >> reporter: two officers are going at two different locations. >> oh, wow, so two officers being hospitalized. capitol officer howard died by suicide. it is horrific. and now what just happened to today, what do you know of the moral of the department? >> reporter: it is rough, erin. moral is not very good considering that the outcome here is something that capitol police officers were worried about after january 6th. there were reports that some
resig resigns and turning in their badges. this is the worst nightmare coming to life once again. >> pete, thank you very much. the top officer testified what chauvin did to floyd again was policy. >> the fact you put your knee on a person's neck that could kill him. >> body cameras and cell phone cameras so many captured floyd's death. they all play a crucial role in court. ♪ if you have moderate to severe psoriasis... or psoriatic arthritis, little things, can become your big moment. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream... ...it's a pill that treats differently.
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handcuffed behind their back? >> no, i have not. >> that would be the top tier, the deadly force. >> why? >> because of the fact that if your knees is on a person's neck that could kill them. >> reporter: lieutenant zimmerman says he served longer than any testimonies testifying to the restraining of the way that floyd was under. >> what was your view? >> totally unnecessary. once a person is cuffed, you need to turn them on their side or have them sit up. you need to get them off their chest. your muscles are pulling back when you are handcuffed and if you are laying on your chest, it constricts your breathing even more.
>> it was something that former chauvin asked about in the moment by former officer thomas lane. >> reporter: the defense pointing out the differences between a patrol officer and zimmerman's role as a homicide detective. >> the frequency of which you have to use higher levels of force as an investigator does not happen all that often, right? >> correct. >> it would not be within your normal role or job duties to do such an analysis, right? >> that's correct. >> re >> reporter: painful testimony about what it was like in the moment that day just steps away from floyd.
and inside how derek chauvin interpreted what just happened. >> you got to control this guy, he's a sizable guy. >> reporter: all stemming from an excruciating 9 minutes to 29 seconds of a knee to a neck that should have ended much earlier. >> the ambulance will get there in whatever amount of time and in that time period you need to provide medical assistance before they arrive. >> reporter: lieutenant zimmerman was among 14th minneapolis officer signed onto an open letter condemning chauvin, the letter read chauvin failed as a human and stripped george floyd of his dignity. week two of testimonies is going
to begin on monday morning. we don't know the lineup for security reasons, we know it is expected current police chief will testify and on top of that the head of the county ma'am mm medical examiner. >> thank you, jimenez, i want to go to elie. >> i thought it was devastating for defense. this witness was soft-spoken but he carries a lot of credibility. that kind of witness can make a real impact on the jury. the things he said were so important and so obvious. he said things like when the handcuffs go on and the risk level goes down. if you put a knee on their neck you risk killing them. this was totally unnecessary. i work with police officers everyday and dozens of them now
i have spoken with a lot of them. not a single one said to me publicly or privately that what chauvin did was appropriate. >> you can see chauvin today in court on the right hand there taking a lot of notes during the testimony about the use of force. he appears to be hands-on with his legal team. we saw things like this. huddle with he and them with each cross-examinations. what do you read into this? is this normal? >> what actual defendants do vary. i have seen other defendants who are sort of more in the background. if i was representing chauvin, i would tell him to tone it down a notch. in that courtroom, the jury, that jury is feet away from the lawyers and the parties. they are watching every single thing you do. i was taught to play it cool no
matter what. don't start franticly jotting notes or show any signs of concerns of panic. it is an interesting courtroom dynamic there. >> it is important of what you point out. we don't see them but they are steps away. you heard in omar's reporting that the police lieutenant testifying officers should provide medical care even if an ambulance is on the way that they would do so right in that interim peeriod. >> here is how chauvin's defense countered. >> there are circumstances where after a person is rendered unconscious and then you perform, you resurvive that person that they are more combat activity than they were initially. >> yes. >> so obviously trying to make the argument that you know the theory they're making is that floyd could have bounced up and was bounced baack and still a
threat. he was handcuffed. >> do you think the jury buy that argument? >> i don't. i find it utterly unconvincing. >> let's think about that. if the concern is he may beover dosing. why not just stand back ten-feet. he's cuffed and faced down to the ground. and even though who could would take several seconds in doing. that i know that's not the policy for police officers. imagine if police officers respond to overdoses all too often. forget about this scenario, responding to an overdoses saying everybody stand back because when this person comes out of it, he may be aggressive, so i am going to put my knee on his neck now. that's outrageous. >> elie, thank you very much. we'll see you monday. during the trial today we
saw new body cams of two of the officers who's also being charged of floyd's death. what's interesting throughout the entire trial is prosecutors relying on an overwhelming amount of videos in the trial. you know we have all seen the painful video of george floyd's death but we have seen so much that we have never seen before this week. tom foreman. >> reporter: this was the beginning of the end of george floyd's life. a police officer body camera capturing the moment the officers confronted him and removing him. so many cameras and so many different angles emerging in court that's filling in the complex picture of his death. >> don't do me like that, man. >>. >> if you get into this car? >> i am claustrophobic.
a security camera inside a near by foods store caught floyd in a different light. >> he seems friendly, approachable. he's talkative. >> reporter: he also seemed high to clerk christopher martin. he bought cigarettes with counterfeit bill and went outside and police were called. >> i am not a bad guy. >> reporter: 61 years old, charles mcmillan was passing by, the camera caught him yelling to floyd "you can't win." >> floyd was put on the ground, pinned down. >> mama! >> that store clerk came out joining about a dozen of people watching calling police to ease up. >> i saw people yelling and
screaming. i saw derek with his knee on george's neck. >> mcmillan saw it, too. >> reporter: for more than 9 minutes as chauvin kneeing on his neck all rolling from different camera. he did not led up again and again. >> i can't believe it. > > >> i can't breathe. >> a 17-years-old recorded the scene on her phone, too. >> he knew it was over for him. he was terrified. he was suffering. this was a cry for help. >> reporter: amid those cries, another cop asked chauvin.
>> by the time help arrived, all those cameras showed george floyd was not moving anymore and one caught chauvin's comment right afterwards. >> we have to control this guy because he's a sizable guy. looks like he's caught on something. >> the defense arguing now matter how hard any one video to look at, all it shows is as police officer doing his job full stop. the prosecution is saying look at all of these videos together, look at them together. convinced when the jury does, they'll see the death of george floyd is inexcusable and criminal. there is no other way to look at it. >> next, the investigation of congressman matt gaetz includes receipts from money paid to women. what does those receipts show?
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first, paula reed is out front with all the late developments in this case. >> reporter: the federal investigation into florida congressman matt gaetz for prostitution and sex trafficking crimes including an alleged ripgt relationship with a minor centers around the relationship of this man, joel greenberg. a tax collector recruited multiple women online for sex and he introduced the women who received cash payments to gaetz who had sex with them too according to the "time." in a statement gaetz's office says matt gaetz never paid for
sex and he refused all the disgusting allegations completely. >> providing for flights and hotel rooms of people you are dating of legal age is not a crime. >> reporter: a source telling cnn, investigators are examining will any campaign money is vofred in paying for travel and expenses for women. gaetz and greenberg had been friends for years. >> if joel would run for councilman, he would become the congressman of the seventh district. >> reporter: she gave a recording of the message to cnn. >> this is your favorite tax collector and i am up in the
panhandle with your congressman gaetz. >> reporter: greenberg entered a plea of not guilty. attorneys for greenberg and gaetz had no comment. in addition to the federal investigation, multiple sources told cnn, gaetz show photos of the women he slept with. gaetz shared images on his phone while on the floor of the house. gaetz found himself with few allies. his communications director resigned today. the former president has remained silent amid of is
escalating scandals. >> if it is all true. i am really glad both of you are back with me. katy, let me start wu. you reviewed text messages and payment receipts in this case. the women told their friends these payments were for sex. it was a clear transaction. what more did you learn about these encounters? >> well, one of the interesting things about the messages we reviewed is that the messages are very clear. they say meet me here at this time, i can give you a thousand dollars. with the men getting those money would be for something else. it is the women who are saying they were paid for sex. the messages could not be clearer and at least people were meeting in a hotel and money was going to change hands. we heard a lot of the drug use that happened in these
encounters with both gaetz and greenberg. he denies and the characterization of any of these meetings. there were a lot of drug used. and payment for sex. >> so dave, you hear katy's reporting right, i'll pay you $1,000, meet me here. different times, different hotels and locations and she just mentioned the drugs, and in katy's reporting is that gaetz and others would take ecstasy as an example before having sex. how important could this be to the case, this drug use? >> good evening, erin. i think where it's important is it is something of value provided in exchange for the sex so that gets you to sex traffic
accident -- trafficking. you have to show whether it's cash or drugs or hotel rooms or flights or expenses. i don't think it goes any further than that because i know some people say well, it shows a level of coercion but when it comes to child sex trafficking, you don't need force fraud or coercion like you do for adult sex trafficking. when it comes to minors, they have a lot more protection and the law is a lot broader. now, i think also where it matters is to prove that matt gaetz had sex with the underaged girl, that's the key to the case, you need to have the girl testify or documents like the one katy was ref fraerencing an show payments at the time the hotels were booked and greenburg but he's waiting in a jail cell waiting for his own trial involving the same 17-year-old
girl, he may want to play let's make a deal with prosecutors. >> it's hard to imagine why he would cover. as you pointed out, the prison sentence for these things if convicted is many years, right? many years. there would be an incredible incentive to turn in your body if that would reduce that, right? >> absolutely. for joel greenburg, he's facing decades in prison matt gaetz if he's charged with child sex trafficking, he'll be facing up to life in prison. there is another element, a conspiracy that could be charged depending on the facts because greenburg was charged with identity theft, wire fraud and other things matt gaetz could be charged with a lot of the same things if shown that they engage in a conspiracy. then gaetz would be just as guilty as joel greenburg for the crimes that joel greenburgcommi.
there is no good outcome here and if he sure vovives it in a criminal justice system, he would be lucky just to avoid a lengthy prison sentence here. >> pretty incredible to think about. i want to play some of the audio message gaetz and greenburg together because it makes the point a, they are together doing all these things and together and leave the voice mail together for florida state representative. let me play it again. >> my dear honor, this is your favorite tax collector. i'm up in the panhandle with your favorite u.s. congressman, mr. gaetz. >> hi, anna. >> we were just chatting about you and talking about your lovely qualities and -- >> we think you're the future of the democratic party in florida. >> so katy, obviously, you know, you hear them together, you know, sort of on that call. tell me what that kind of -- the
point that that makes here. they do sound like buddies. >> sure, i mean, we know they were really close friends. we know they were tight and part of this circle of florida republicans, a group of which matt gaetz was probably in the upper echelons. his friend the seminole county tax collector probably not as in influential and well-known. he feels like the ringleader and greenburg feels like a member of the entourage. they are tight. it looks like they were close enough friends they were sharing women together, as well. one of the other interesting thing prosecutors are looking at is whether or not other members of their circle were involved. one of the allegations is not only did gaetz, not only did greenburg have section with these women but other people have, too. no our reporting there is a woman that claims to have sex with greenburg with gaetz and somebody she was asked to have sex with and she agreed to.
that also sort of starts to widen the circle, who else was friends with these gentlemen who would want to have this kind of friendship with them? >> well, exactly. and it also points out, right, you pay someone if that's what happened and then she has sex with you ex and your friend and your friend and makes the whole thing more damming and sorted, of course. dave who was the person for whom they left that message, she said the call was quote so weird. she told us that she did not return the phone call from gaetz and greenburg. you sort of know the players here. what do you think was going on with this call? >> i think they were trolling her, and she's very young. she's 30 right now. state representative, the first ever iranian state representative in florida'sistry and progressive from the bernie sanders wing of the democratic party. so you have two republicans in
a reddish state trolling her by calling her and telling her she's the future of the democratic party in our state. well, you know, you don't want to under estimate anna because she got elected in a district that used to be held by a republican and wins by significant margins. she has a large grass roots operation and will run for statewide office. you under estimate her. >> certainly trolling and obviously, doing so in a, you know, gender charged way. there is no question about that. k katy, dave, thank you so much. >> thank you. next, we're back with the breaking news on the deadly day on capitol hill as the capitol police department grieves one of its own the second time in less than three months. ♪ tex-mex. tex-mex. ♪ termites.
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