tv CNN Newsroom With Brianna Keilar CNN March 31, 2021 11:00am-12:00pm PDT
went afternoon. thank you for being with me. day three of the testimony in the trial of derek chauvin -- who proceedings have taken a break for lunch. we'll bring you back to the courtroom as soon as they resume. the majority of today's testimony has been focused on this video footage from here inside and outside the cup foods store. there in the tank top, that's george floyd. the very first time we are now
hearing from the gentleman who was behind the cashier at cup foods, his name is christopher martin. george floyd allegedly paid for some items with a counterfeit $20 bill. when martin reported it to the manager, the manager escalated the whole thing to police. martin testified that he in some ways feels responsible for what happened to george floyd. >> i saw you standing there with your hands on your head for a while, correct? >> correct. >> what was going on through your mind? >> disbelief and guilt. >> why guilt? >> if i would have just not taken the bill, this could have been avoided. cnn's omar jimenez is outside the courthouse. we keep hearing from various witnesses saying they feel this
guilt, i failed him, in acting or not acting that day. >> reporter: yeah, brooke, what is abundantly clear, even after more than ten months, these witnesses still feel like what happened is still very much in their hearts and minds, and are not able to get past it, and in some cases they are questioning whether they should have done things differently, as we heard from christopher martin. his testimony as come as part of a day that's been dominated by new video and context around that initial call to police on george floyd about a counterphi $20 bill. we saw from surveillance video christopher martin going back and forth about that decision. the policy said if it's fake and you accept it, you have to pay
it out of your own paycheck. he reconsidered, and then this chain of events set off, eventually led to what he's still holding on to. i should also note that christopher martin is 19-year-old. he's the fifth teenager or younger to testify out of ten witnesses in total as part of this trial just three days in. after martin exited the stand, a man by the name of christopher belfry took the stand. he actually pulled behind the vehicle that police officers first interacted in, and he was startled when an officer pulled out his gun, so he pulled out his phone and started filming. >> i noticed. two officers coming. they approached the vehicle in front of me. one officer drew a handgun, and opened the door, pointed the gun
at whoever was in the driver's seat. it startled me, you know, when i seen the officer raise his gun. >> let me just -- >> i started recording. >> reporter: he eventually said that he stopped recording altogether, because the officers kept staring at him, and he didn't want any problems. but he did witness what those other bystanders witnessed, floyd being dragged over to that side of the street and being pinned under the knee of derek chauvin. the defense chose not to cross-examine belfry, so he's done. once we come back from lunch in an hour or so, we'll hear from the new witness, 11th witness just three days into testimony. >> i think we're coming in about 15, 20 minutes, 2:30 eastern today, omare. thank you.
omar spoke to eloquently, and we're seeing this video from inside the cup foods. eli hoenig is here with us today, as well as the former d.c. chief police. i bring this up. this is a point that the prosecution is clearly addressing. he testified that george floyd appeared to be intoxicated under the influence when he came into the store. let's listen to this piece. >> when i asked him if he played baseball, he went on to respond to that, but it kind of took him a little long to get to what he was trying to say. so it would appear that he was high. >> so you just had some signs that you thought he was under the influence of something?
>> yes. >> all right. but were you able to carry on at least some conversation with him? >> yes. >> elie, why does this matter, questioning him about that specifically? >> brooke, this is a common prosecutorial tactic we call pulling the sting. what that means is if you have a fact as a prosecutor that's not good for your case, you still bring it out. it hits so much harder if the jury hears it for the first time from the defense. imagine if the prosecutors didn't front this fact that george floyd appeared intoxicated, and the jury didn't hear about that until a week or two from now. the jury is going to think why did the prosecution not tell me this? are they hiding things? as a prosecutor, you want the jury to look at you and believe you have full credibility and you're giving the full story, for better or worse. >> got it. pulling out the sting,
neutralizing it, i suppose. chief ramsey this is the first video from inside the store. just given your experience, how does there in the black tank, george floyd, how does he appear? does he look lie the high, strung-out person that the defense is arguing that he was? >> he could very well have been high. it's difficult to tell. to me the most important part of this, for most people, the first time they saw george floyd was when he was facedown on the pavement with chauvin's knee on his neck. now they have a chance to see him before this all took place. was he aggressive against any people in the store? did he seem agitated? the answer to all of that is no. if he was high, i mean, the real point of this whole trial is whether or not chauvin was
justified in the use of force over the extent the period of time. and so, you know, you can easily get distracted. the other part and the other video i think is important is when you see exactly when he was handcuffed, restrained. it was soon after the police first encountered him and took him out of the car. why is that important? it's important. when you're talking about use of force, if you're going to use force against a person who is already restrained, you have to have a better justification than you might have to have if a person is free to wrestle their arms, those kinds of things. it's not that a person handcuffed can't become a problem. they kick and do all kinds of things, but it does, i think, highlight exactly the behavior of george floyd. was he aggressive? was he doing something to the officers that would justify ultimately that high level of force they use over and extended
period of time? in my mind, so far, i don't think the defense has shown anything. >> chief, let me stay with you. we heard christopher belfry say he pulled up and saw the officer come over and pull his gun. and i'm just wondering what's protocol in that sort of situation? >> well, i mean, it depends on the training they received there in minneapolis, but let me just say this. if an officer draws their gun, it's usually considered a use of force at a person, but if a gun is drawn at the ready position, that's not considered a use of force. if you're making a felony car stop, for example, you don't know exactly what you have, sometimes you do unholster, so it depends on the circumstances. i don't know what was going through the officer's mind at the time or what the procedure is in minneapolis. i do a lot of work with consent
decrees with the doj. that is an area that they pretty much agree, if you point toward a person, that's considered use of force, if not, it's not. >> ellie, we keep hearing their feeling a year later that they failed george floyd for not doing more to save his life. you have the employee, christopher martin, describing the disbelief and guilt, when he had his hands on his head and he said, quote, if i would not have just taken the $20 bill, this could have all been avoided. what does that mean for the prosecution and the defense. how will his testimony potentially affect the jury? >> that is such a normal and common human reaction to witnesses to traumatic, violent events.
i've seen it many times. people who witness these events, months, years later when they testify in court, almost always ask could i have done something different? could i have done something more? it humanizes the case for the jury. let's remember, the jury is human beings. we're not seeing them, but they are 12 human beings. they react to what they're seeing, witnesses who cover the range of ages, different professions, all telling fundamentally similar stories. i think the prosecution is bringing that story to life for the jury. thank you. hang with me. we're going to come back to this in a bit, as they're about to come back from the lunch break. today president biden is launching the historic effort to overhaul the crumbling infrastructure. a senior officials tells cnn that the white house wants to be progress on roads, bridges,
airports, even the internet, by memorial day. this white house is proposing to fund this $2 trillion package by reversing the tax cuts, a plan being strongly denounced as dangerously misguided, and cnn's white house correspondent is live there in pittsburgh, where the president is set to present this plan. obviously a huge proposal, bill. what's in it? >> reporter: it's a huge lift politically, but policywise, infrastructure has historically been bipartisan on the top line, but the details are where they get tripped up, and the deed tails are big here. we're talking about 22,000 new miles of roads, 10,000 bridges to be repaired, waterways,
ports, but it also serves as an umbrella for other key items. education infrastructure, hundreds of billions for what they term as the care economy, and also elements of climate and climate goals are wrapped in throughout this proposal, most notably the electric grid, and also a fleet of electric vehicles would be financed as well. it is a very big proposal. worth noting, it's only part one of the proposal. there's already strong opposition from this, and we heard some of it from senator mcconnell today. >> it's like a trojan horse. it's called infrastructure, but inside the trojan horse will be more borrowed money and massive tax increases on all the protective parts of our economy. railroad so obviously the scale of the spending is one issue,
but it's the pay-fors. the chamber of commerce has already been opposed to how the biden administration plans to pay for the plan. eight years of spending paid over the course of 15, largely reversing key components of former president trump's 2016 tax reform. it would also impose a global minute -- increase the global minimum tax to 21%. it would seek to do away with fossil fuel subsidies as well. republicans have been very clear, they not for tax increases. that raises the question for the biden administration at this time. what is the pathway forward. obviously they are just following a cornerstone legislative achievement in that $1.9 trillion relief. keep in mind democrats trying to use the same mechanism. this is not coronavirus relief. the details are extraordinarily thorny. you're talking about energy and
tax policy. democrats are not unified on this as they were on coronavirus relief. officials know this isn't going to be clean or easy. they know it will take time. the question is how much time, and can they finally get infrastructure across the finish line, something after administration after administration after administration has tried the last couple decades. >> you would know about all the work this will require, including within the democratic party itself, having covered the hill as long as you have. we'll look for the president in a couple hours. good to see you. any moment now the derek chauvin trial will return. also, great news for parents who would like to protect their kids from covid. pfizer is reporting that the vaccine is 100% effective for kids ages 12 to 15. we have that news coming up. you're watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin.
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all right. any minute now jury in the trial of former police officer derek chauvin will return to that courtroom. they've been on this lunch break after another emotional morn testimony. so we will bring you back to the next witness. meantime, we are following major news in the coronavirus pandemic concerning vaccine maker pfizer. first, the company says it's met its commitment to have 120 million doses ready to ship to the u.s. by the end of this month. that's huge. number two, pfizer also says the vaccine is 100% safe for teenagers and prevent illness. clinical trial data shows this
age group with tolerate the vaccine much better than adults who have gotten the vaccine. this potential game-changing data still needs to undergo a peer review, but pfizer plans to submit the results to the fda for emergency use authorization. with that, let's take you back to the trial of former officer derek chauvin. first of all, if you feel comfortable, we would appreciate it if you could remove your mask. i'll keep mine on. we're going to test out the microphone and how it works with you. if you can't state your full name. >> first chaim is c-h-a-r-l-e-s, last maim capital
m-c-m-i-l-l-i-a-n. >> good afternoon, sir. >> good afternoon. >> how are you doing today? >> okay. >> thank you for big here. i'm going to start with some questions about your background and we'll move on from there are the all right? >> yes. could you tell the jury how old you? >> 61 years old. how far did you go? school? >> third grade. what city do you live in? in hennepin county. are you in minneapolis? >> yes, ma'am. >> i'm going to ask you some questions about memorial day, may 25th, of last year. do you live in an area close to cup foods? >> yes, i do. >> and that evening on may 25th, were you driving by that area? >> yes, i was.
>> and what kind of car do you drive? >> i drive a 2006 dodge caravan, blue. >> is that a van? >> yes, ma'am. >> so, when you were in the area of 38th and draw, did something draw your attention? >> yes, ma'am. >> what was that? >> i was at the red light, i was going to go east onto 38th. that was to my left. when i got there to make a left turn, i see an interaction with a car with a man in with a police officer. >> so i'm going to show you a map. if we could put up exhibit 1, please. all right. so you were talking about where you were. uses this map that's up on the screen, could you just describe -- you can actually use
your -- there's a little pen there, to show the jury on the screen where you were and where you were headed. >> i need a minute, because i'm old. i can't hardly see -- i was on the corner of 38th and chicago to make a left to go east toward 47th and hiawatha. >> it would be right here. >> you just made a mark on that intersection in the direction you were headed, which is eastbound. is that right? >> yes. >> when you were headed down 38th, you saw an interaction with somebody and some police officers. what did you see at that point? >> when i made the left, i seen
a blue -- i think it was a mercedes-benz truck on the right side with a police officer standing at the store. i automatically made a right turn and pulled over. >> what made you decide to pull over? >> just being nosy. i'm in the neighborhood. i'm a nosy person. >> did you want to know what was going on? >> yes. being nosy, that's what it was. >> you saw an officer standing next to a blue mercedes truck. >> with the door open. >> did you see what the officer was doing at that point? >> uh, no, not at the time. >> so you want you decided you wanted to pull over, see what's going on? >> get out. >> did you pull up the street. >> immediately parked, got out. >> so when you got out, what did you do?
>> i walked -- i went to the other side of the street. >> all right. would that be the cup foods side of the street? >> yes. >> what did you do on the other side of the street? >> i engaged what was going on by watching. >> what did you see from the cup foods side of the street? >> basically i seen the officer, you know, asking mr. floyd to get out of the truck. got mr. floyd out of the truck and they walked over to the sidewalk where -- just walked over to the sidewalk. >> i'm going to stop you right there. we'll break it down a bit. >> yes, ma'am. >> you said you saw the officers getting mr. floyd out of the truck. >> yes, ma'am. >> you say mr. floyd. diyou know who he was at the time? >> no ma'am. >> did you later learn that was george floyd? >> yes, ma'am. >> how many officers at the time
did you see interacting with mr. floyd? >> i want to is a one at the time that another one walked over to help him. >> tell the jury about that. what did you see the first officer do? start from that point. >> when i got out of my truck and started watching, the officers were basically asking mr. floyd to get out. from that point on, i don't want to say the other officer walked up -- the other officer was on the other side. he walked up to the officer who was trying to get mr. floyd out of the trucks. i heard a couple words. they finally got mr. floyd off truck and walked him down. >> first you saw one officer interacting on the driver's side of the car. >> yes, ma'am. >> you said there was another officer who was on the passenger side initially of that blue mercedes truck.
is that right? >> yes, ma'am. >> i think you were describing that eventually that officer on the passengers side came over to assist on the driver's side. is that right? >> yes, ma'am. >> you said that those officers got mr. floyd handcuffed. did you see that happen? >> no, i didn't. i'm not recalling. >> what did you see while you were standing on the cup foods side of the street happen next to that suv? >> at that -- i had been looking away, but then when you turned back and look, i did see mr. floyd handcuffed. then they started to walk him down the sidewalk. >> so you didn't see the very moment he was handcuffed? >> no, but you did see he ended up in handcuffs. >> yes, ma'am. >> were you looking around you but not focused the entire time on what the exact moment he was handcuffed? >> no. you said he was handcuffed and
then they walked him across the street. can you describe or so what you saw happen next? all right, so if you could put either a line or mark where you saw them walking? can we enlarge it this is it possible? >> he was on the right-hand side. i can't see where the restaurants is on the right side. >> let's take off the enlaurgeed portion for a second. >> there's a small restaurant behind the truck. that's what i'm looking for. i can't see it. >> would that be the dragon wok? >> yes, it's a restaurant on the corner. >> is that where the officers you saw walked with mr. floyd at
that point? >> yes, ma'am. >> you said he was in handcuffs. was mr. floyd walking across the street? >> yes, he was walking up the sidewalk with them. >> then what happened? >> he said somebody couldn't -- he said something, i can't quote right what he said, but whatever he said, they let him sit down. >> were you watching that part of the enterinteraction where h down? >> yes. >> i'm going to try not to talk over you, if you wait for the question, and i'll try not to do the same thing. >> yes, sorry. >> could you hear what was going on in terms of the whole conversation? >> no, ma'am.
>> but you were watching what was going on? >> yes, ma'am. >> did they move again after that? >> yes, ma'am. they helped him get up off the sidewalk. >> okay. after he got up off the sidewalk, where did they go? >> they went north across the street at the red light, which would be going north through the red light. >> did they head toward cup foods at that point? >> yes. yes, ma'am. >> where were you? did you stay where you were? or did you follow? >> i went to the sidewalk almost to the edge of cup foods, to the stoplight. >> did we show you some pictures and videos from that day, prior to your testimony in court
today? did you see some videos and pictures on a previous date when we met before? >> yes, i did. >> all right. i'm going to put up, just for you, but not for the jury, what we have marked as exhibit 38, please. all right. do you see that in front of you? >> yes, ma'am. >> do you recognize yourself in that picture? >> yes, i do. >> is that what you looked like on may 25th and what you were wearing? >> yes. >> all right. we would offer exhibit 38. >> no objection. >> all right. 38 is received. >> we will publish that to the jury. all right. so now the jury is getting to see that's what you were wearing, that's what you looked like on may 25th. is that right? >> yes. >> so it looks like you're walking down the sidewalk, talking about getting closer.
de did you get closer at that point? >> yes. >> we can take that down. after you saw the officers walk mr. floyd toward cup foods and you're getting closer, what did you see then? >> i seen them come through the intersection. when they came through the intersection, they went to the car with them. >> when you say the car, what car are you referring to? >> the squad car. >> they were taking mr. floyd to the squad car at that point? >> yes, ma'am. >> was he still handcuffed at that pint? >> yes, ma'am. >> was mr. floyd walking with those officers? >> yes, ma'am. >> was it just those two officers at that point? >> yes. >> did you know either of those two officers? >> no. >> and then did you continue to observe after they got to that squad car? >> yes, i did.
>> what did you see then? >> just standing, observing them getting him into the car, you know, just paying attention like i always was. >> was mr. floyd saying anything at that point this time? >> yes, he was. >> were you engaging in a conversation with mr. floyd as well? >> yes, i was. >> so tell the jury just a little bit about what was going on in that moment? >> at the time i was engaged with mr. floyd, the officer was, you know, trying to get him in the car and everything, talking to him, i would tell him, mr. floyd, just comply, get in the car, you can't win. something to that nature. >> okay. before, a you were watching mr.
floyd walk of to the squad car, any of those moments in time, did you see mr. floyd fighting or being violent with the officers from the moment he was taken out of the car, then sat down and walked across the street? >> no. and then you're describing what was going on -- he was handcuffed the whole time, right? >> yes. >> you're talking about trying to get him into the car. did we previously show you a video that showed your position and what you were watching, as well as what one of the officer's body cam showed at that moment. did you see that on a previous date? >> yes. >> did that show accurately and fairly what you saw as well as what you heard and what was going on with respect to mr. floyd at the squad car?
did that show what was happening? >> yes. >> and just so i'm clearly describing it to you -- i know you saw a number of videos, there was one that had a view from one of the officers' body cameras combined with a surveillance camera showing where you were standing. that's what we have market as exhibit 39. you can't that that video showed what you were doing and what you saw and heard. is that right? >> yes. >> all right. i would offer exhibit 39. >> no objection. >> 39 is received. >> and we will publish that now. does that show you walking by -- just one moment. before we play, the top screen, does that show where you're
standing next to the squad car? >> yes. >> can you just point yourself out on the top screen? and then the other video that's embedded within what's shown here, that shows the officer and mr. floyd at the car. is that right? >> yes. >> all right. we will clear that and then we will continue to play. >> mr. floyd, you ain't going to win. >> i don't want to do nothing to him. >> man, man. >> you made a mistake. >> his breathing is going to stop. >> okay. okay. i'm going in. all right. we'reeal -- at 18:07. are you having a conversation
with mr. floyd? >> yes, ma'am. >> what's going on in that consideration? >> i'm watching mr. floyd saying he -- i'm trying to get him to understand when you make a mistake, once they get you in the car, it's no certain thing, you're going to go with him. i was trying to get him to go. >> is it your voice saying, things like you can't win? >> yes, ma'am. >> why were you saying that? >> because i've had interaction with officers myself, and i understand once you get in the car, you're done. that's the way i look at it. >> were you trying to help him to -- >> make the situation easy. >> got it. there were some comments about, you know, i'm claus roe trophob.
were you having a conversation with mr. floyd? >> yes, ma'am. >> did you feel like he was hearing and understanding you, what you were saying? >> yes, ma'am. >> as you said, you were trying to make it easier, to help? >> yes, ma'am. >> we have this stopped at 8:18:07. did other officers arrive? >> yes, ma'am. >> did you know any of the other officers that arrived? >> yes, ma'am. >> who did you know? >> mr. chauvin right there. >> if you can point to him on the screen there. you've made a mark with the arrow reporting to mr. chauvin. >> how did you know mr. chauvin? >> five days prior to this happening, i pulled up on a squad car and i seen mr. chauvin, and i told him like other officers, at the end of the day you go to your family
safe, and the next person goes to their home safe. >> you had just met him in the community a few days prior? >> i had seen him in the community prior to then, but the day i pulled up on him, i gave him the recommendation. >> so you had seen him, had a conversation with him, but you had known him in the community before that as well? >> i had seen him through the community, i didn't know him. >> you recognized him as an officer in the community? >> yes, ma'am. [ inaudible ] >> i apologize. i'll try to slow down, and i'm going to try not to talk over to you, do my best. all right. okay. i'm going to let the video play, and we can pause it for some follow-ups. go ahead. thank. >> you can't win. >> i'm not trying to win. i didn't do anything. he know it.
the officer, you all hear me, don't do me like that. >> if you get in this car, we can talk. >> i'm claustrophobic, man. i'm claustrophobic, man. >> get in the car. >> let any bet in the front. >> you're not getting in the front. get in the car. in the car. >> i'm not a bad guy. [ yelling ] >> oh, man, please, officer, please. >> sit. take a seat. >> please, please. >>. >> take a seat. >> i can't choke. you can't breathe, officer. please, please. >> you're fine. >> my wrist, man. my wrist, man. >> i can't. i can't. >> on the ground. on the ground. >> i'm going down, i'm going
down. >> get in the squad. >> i'm going down. i'm going down. >> he's going to have a heart attack. >> i can't breathe. >> get in the car. >> i can't breathe, man. >> take a seat. >> please, man. please listen to me. >> is he going to jail? >> he's under arrest for forgery until we figure out what's going on. >> i can't breathe. >> take him out. >> thank you. >> on the ground. on the ground. >> all right. we got you out. rest restraint, hobble. >> i can't breathe. >> jesus christ.
>> i could breathe. i can't breathe. >> stop moving. >> mama. mama. mama. >> one of the front pouches on my right side bag. >> mama, mama, mama. >> the other kind. >> all right. oh, my god. >> i can't breathe. i got breathe, i can't breathe, man. stop it right here, please. mr. mcmillian, do you need a minute? >>. [ crying ]
>> all right. are you okay? >> yeah. >> i know this is difficult. can you just explain what you're feeling in this moment? >> i felt helpless. i don't have a mama, either. i understand him. my mom died june 25th. >> hang on just one second. >> let's take a ten-minute break. >> we'll take a little break. okay. we're going to come out of this. ooh, forgive me. just watching a grown man, um, elie hoenig, save me. just watching that, i think that's the first time we've seen
the police officer body cam, and hearing this grown man on the ground saying, i can't breathe over and over and over again. you hear this witness saying, you can't win. he's in the squad car, you can't win. your reaction to all of that? >> yeah, brooke, what a powerful moment emotionally and for this jury and for all of us. first of all, we just talked before this witness took the stand how traumatic it can be for people who witness this thing. you see this in witnesses, even those who are utterly blameless like this gentleman. the emotional impact stays with them. it will stay with them the rest of theirs lives. that was a searing moment, we came back and here is this older man, who was very confident and calm on the stand up until that moment. when he saw that individual use, it came back to him, his head
was down, he wall street sobbing and an incredibly true, genuine and really moving, upsetting movement. >> charles ramsey, chief, i want your reaction. you and i were speaking yesterday waiting to see the police officer body cam footage. i want to know everything you thought as you watched that. >> well, you know, videos are hard to watch, especially when you know what the outcome is going to be. it's like you're reliving it all over again. you can see where he's not getting in the car, he's saying he's claustrophobic. he's a big guy, and trying to put him in the cage car, even it's an suv, there's not a lot of legroom. it's not initial to go around to the other side to pull him in, but once they got him in, i'm
not sure why they pulled him out. i don't know what the rationale was. obviously floyd was struggling, saying he wouldn't breathe and so forth. there was some kicking of the legs initially, so one of the officers was securing his legs, but again, just because the force initially was -- could have been justified, getting him in the car, controlling his legs, it doesn't mean the same level of forbes is justified minutes later once the resistance stops. we all know now there's a significant period of time, four-plus minutes, i think, when there is no motion, there is no resistance, and that's when obviously the force should have stopped. >> i just imagine people are watching this thinking how do you go from a counter pfeit $20
bill. one of the witnesses say he didn't see in floyd fighting with police. what did you make of that? >> well, yeah, he was handcuffed. when we say fighting, there was some level of resistance. he wasn't getting in the car. he was flailing his legs when initially pulled back out of the car, but again, ultimately at what point in time does force cease and that's really the issue here. not the initial use of force as much as what happens afterwards. once he's under control, he's on the ground. now, you know, do you start to ease up on the force or stop the force all together or do you continue? unfortunately, they continued. that's why we're having this trial now, is because of that.
>> i'm also struck just by, you know, how many witnesses we've seen testify that they happened to be working at the speedway or cup foods or were in the area, and they all stopped because they knew, in their words, something clearly was wrong. elie, i'm just wondering, if i'm sitting there as a juror, and the emotion from this gentleman there, but i'm just wondering how that resonates. >> it resonates so strongly, bro brooke, because all of these witnesses are everyday people. they're not cops, lawyers or prosecutors, and so are the jurors. when the jurors see that intuitive reaction that the witnesses had at the scene, the jurors are much more likely to understand that. picking up on commissioner ramsey's point. we're seeing the body-worn camera. this is relatively new technology in policing. i know the commissioner has been
on the forefront to use this technology. here we are seeing why it's so important, so valuable. it literally puts you in the police officer's shoes. to this point, we've all seen the video taken by the young woman who testified yesterday, which is gruesome, but you're at a safe distance. you're where she is, 10, 15 feet away. now this video. >> you feel like you're in it. >> literally on top of george floyd. you're in it. that's why it hits so hard, it's so visceral. i think that's why the witness had that strong reaction. >> commissioner, did you want to s say something? >> the body-worn camera has changed a lot in terms of how we review and view use of force cases. as i said before, i've reviewed thousands of these things, but in the last decade, when more and more video started becoming available to observe, you're able to actually see exactly what it is that took place. you're not relying on written statements any longer. you can actually see for yourself.
when you start to judge whether or not force was justified, again, you can look at it from beginning to end. when you're looking at a witness statement, you really don't get that same sense that you do when you're looking at an actual video of what took place. and you'll also pick up the audio. so, we didn't hear much of it this time, but you'll begin, as they start to really show the body-worn camera video from the various officers, what were they saying to one another? did one actually think they should get this guy up and move him around so he could breathe? did somebody think it was a wise idea to check for a pulse? i don't know the answer to that, but we'll find out pretty soon once they start showing that body-worn camera video. >> a quick follow-up because you were jumping in and analyzing what we did see from the body camera footage and we saw george floyd, as you pointed out, resisting a bit and kicking, as he was being shoved in the squad car, what is -- what is the piece you feel like you were saying is missing to help you understand or judge the ultimate use of force?
what do you want to know? >> well, i mean, at what point in time did the actual resistance stop? now, we know, based on the film that we've seen so far, it stopped fairly early on. now, there's like almost a five-minute period of time when there is no resistance. why the force? what kind of conversation was taking place? why did you feel it was necessary? how come you didn't get him up and then get him in the car? now, i don't know if minneapolis uses the larger squad rolls or the wagons to transport when you have a person that size. sometimes you're better off calling for a wagon to transport. minneapolis may not use wagons because they have the suvs with the cage. i don't know the answer to that. but that would be one way of being able to deal with someone who is large and trying to put him in that smaller area. those are all going to be questions they're going to have to come up at some point in time when they start to talk to people within the department to better understand training, better understand policy, all those kinds of things. >> and, elie, over to you, i'm
trying to put myself in the shoes of this most recent witness, mr. mcmillen. he lived it and he's watching along with the rest of the courtroom the video from both the surveillance and also the body cam and hearing the pleading of george floyd, you know, i can't breathe. would he have -- would the prosecution have played that video to him prior to testifying or is this fresh for him? >> so, that's an interesting strategic decision. sometimes you want to prepare the witness, show them everything you're going to show them. sometimes you don't. sometimes you want that visceral reaction. you want the sort of straight, unvarnished reaction. i think one of the reasons this witness is reacting so strongly, when you look at it, he's the last civilian, he's the last sympathetic human being whoever had a conversation back and forth with george floyd. and i think the enormity of that may be hitting him at that moment as well.
>> yep. elie, commissioner, stand by. we'll take a quick commercial break. back with the trial momentarily. i'm brooke baldwin. pain hits fast. so get relief fast. only tylenol rapid release gels have laser-drilled holes. they release medicine fast for fast pain relief. >> ms. eldridge. >> thank you, your honor. all right. we have the video paused for a minute. i'm going to ask you some questions about that and then we can move on from there, okay?
>> yes, ma'am. >> all right. we have it stopped at 8:50:21. what did you see at the beginning of this clip in terms of the officers putting mr. floyd in the car. can you just describe what you saw? from your perspective. >> well, what i'm -- what i'm standing at looking at now, where i was on the backside of the car with the trunk, the other officer was trying to get some scrap -- hog tying, that's what i'm engaged in right now. >> so, in this image right now where it's frozen at 8:20.51, can you just point out where you are? and you said -- you said hog
tie. can you describe what you mean by that? >> i guess you look for scraps where they tie you up. >> so, where we have this video stopped, you were watching -- sorry. is that better? i just want to make sure i can hear you and you can hear me. i have trouble hearing with all the plexiglass and masks. can you describe what you're seeing at that point. >> i'm seeing mr. floyd on the ground. >> and is anyone else on the ground? >> repeat that, please. >> is anyone with him on the ground? >> yes, ma'am. >> what do you see in terms of the other officers? >> i see two officers on the back of him and i see the officer in the front with him. and i see mr. thao.
>> okay. and you're d-- i think you said mr. thao. did you know the other officer at the back of the car? did you know who he was, that officer at the back? >> no, ma'am. >> and you don't know his name today, do you? >> thao. i don't really know his name. >> but another officer you weren't familiar with at that time? >> no, ma'am. >> okay. what about officer chauvin, you said you knew him? >> i did know his name at the time, but i know of him by -- in the squad car and what i said uc, but i didn't know -- >> you later realized you knew -- >> his name, yes, ma'am. >> all right. i'm going to back you up a little bit. before these officers were on the ground with mr. floyd and an
officer at the back, at the beginning of this clip, they were getting him into the car, is that right? >> yes, ma'am. >> at that time you were having a conversation with mr. floyd, is that right? >> yes, ma'am. >> and were you continuing to have a conversation with mr. floyd throughout this process? >> i can't recall right now. >> did you hear mr. floyd speaking? >> yes, ma'am. >> and then at times were you also speaking to him? >> i want to say yes. >> okay. anything you said that's captured on camera, that would have been what you said in that moment, is that right, over the course of the time of your interaction with mr. floyd? >> yes, ma'am. >> okay. so, what stood out to you about what mr. floyd was saying when
you saw him on the ground? >> when he kept saying, i can't breathe and when he said momma, they're killing me. they're killing me. that's what i kept hearing. i can't breathe. momma, they're killing me. and he started saying, my body's shutting down. and was it your voice somewhere in the middle of all this saying, get up and get in the car, was that you? >> yes, ma'am. >> why were you saying that? what were you trying to do at that point? >> i was trying to help him. >> and how did he look to you after this continued? when you said he was saying, momma, and i can't breathe, how did he appear to be to you