tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN March 26, 2021 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
>> you need to give them courage. you have to give them hope. we are in a community where [ inaudible ]. resilience of these children. whenever i see their faces, it gives me hope. it keeps my dream alive. >> to see how zana builds peace amidst war and the pandemic and to nominate someone you think should be a cnn hero, go to c cnnheroes.com. and thank you for watching, everyone, our coverage continues. tonight, laws built on a lie. part of an attack on democracy fueled by that lie. an assault on the capitol, in the name of that lie. and the liars now lying about
that. john berman here in for anderson. when the program ended last night, georgia's repunlen governor had just signed sweeping voter restrictions into law. one provision adds insult to the injury of already-limited polling access and long lines by making it a crime to give food, or even water, to people on those lines waiting hours, often in the hot sun, to vote. president biden weighed in late today. calling the law an atrocity. >> any indications that it has nothing to do with fairness, nothing to do with decency. they passed a law saying you can't provide water for people standing in line while they are waiting to vote? you don't need anything else, to know that this is nothing but punitive design to keep people from voting. >> outside the signing ceremony last night, police arrested georgia state representative, park cannon, who was knocking on the door trying to get in. she is now facing two felony
charges, which certainly says something. as does this photo, which came out today. take a hard look. a black lawmaker just outside the door. that is the governor in front of a painting of an old georgia slave plantation. the callaway plantation, to be precise. it is the backdrop, both literally and symbolically, to a law that georgia's governor, a member of what used to be admired as the party of lincoln. said today had nothing to do with restricting voter access. >> it wasn't a voting-rights bill. it was a license security bill that a that actually increases early voting opportunities on the weekend here, in georgia. also, requires a photo i.d. for absentee by mail just like when you vote in person. and it continues to, i think, will allow georgia to have secure, accessible, fair elections in georgia. keeping them honest. the governor was very selective in which provisions he mentioned. he neglected to say the law permits unlimited challenges to voter eligibility. it also limits ballot-drop boxes
to inside polling locations, during daytime-regular hours. one state lawmaker who represents a majority-minority district outside atlanta telling "the new york times" the number of drop boxes in her district will now shrink, from 33, to just nine. the governor also said nothing about the let them go hungry and thirsty clause. it's what he did say, however, that gets to the heart of things. his claim that this is all about election security. and making it, he is suggesting there have been problems with past elections in georgia. such as, say, the 2020 vote. you know, the one he certified. the one his own officials, two trump-supporting republicans, signed off on. while, also, in great detail, refuting the false stories behind being told about voting irregularities and fraud. >> i know there are people that are convinced the election was fraught with problems. but the evidence. the actual evidence. the facts tell us a different story. >> and now, we'll move onto what i'm going to call disinformation
monday. we there are no seized machines in the county. not true. did not happen. another one. did not get on a plane to go count votes in pennsylvania. okay? so, there is no algorithm. the 5 million ballot hand count proves there is no algorithm switching votes. >> we verified that signature. so your signature was matched twice. we had safe, secure, honest elections. and the results are disappointing, if you are republican but those are the results. >> we should note that georgia secretary of state, whom you just heard there, did speak out today in support of the new law. saying, quote, there is no rational argument against requiring state i.d. for absentee ballots. then again, given what you have just heard him say about the success of signature matching. one might ask, why are tougher measures necessary, at all? republican lawmakers in all but a handful of states nationwide are now pushing similar steps. and their justification is the
same. that there's something wrong with how we conduct elections, which is unfounded, at best. at worst, it's part of a lie that goes back decades. and a practice, dating back to the jim-crow south and reconstruction. but its current incarnation took off just days after the former president's inauguration, when he claimed falsely, of course, that millions of undocumented immigrants voted for his opponent. then, based on such high lies, he set up a voter-fraud commission, which found nothing and disbanded. and then, as 2020 rolled around, he was off to the races. >> make no mistake. this election was stolen from you, from me, and from the country. >> it's going to be a very hard thing to concede because we know there was massive fraud. this was not a close election. you know, i say, sometimes jokingly, but there's no joke about it. >> it was a rigged election. you look at the different states. the election was totally rigged. >> there is no way we lost georgia. there's no way. i've been in two elections. i won 'em both and the second
one, i won much bigger than the first. okay? >> because, the only way we're going to lose this election is if the election is rigged. remember that. >> frankly, we did win this election. >> everything he said there, in virtually everything his postelection legal team tried to claim about the election was a lie. what's more, one of his attorneys who is being sued for defamation by dominion voting systems is making those lies, the ones she told, a centerpiece of her defense. she is arguing, in a court filing, that she should not be liable because no-reasonable person would believe her election-fraud claims. her legal precedent there, being the landmark case. meantime, here in the real world, dominion today sued fox news for $1.6 billion. the company alleging fox purposely aired baseless claims about dominion rigging votes in the last election. now, you could file this all away. all of it, as theater of the
absurd, except it led to lawmakers, most of whom knew better, or should have. cynically, trying to overturn the election, and then to this. >> stop the steal! stop the steal! stop the steal! >> stop something, the steal, which was not happening. also, lynch pence and get pelosi. angry mobs drawn to washington stirred to violent insurrection, by people feeding them lie, after lie. and now, those very same liars are lying about what their election lies unleashed. first, as you know, there was senator ron johnson, the wisconsin republican who said he never felt scared, that day. because the attackers, quote, were people who love this country. who truly respect law enforcement, and would never do anything to break the law. that, he says, and they weren't antifa or members of black lives matter. well, now, hundreds of criminal charges later, the former president is saying this.
>> it was zero threat, right from the start. it was zero threat. look. they went in. they shouldn't have done it. some of them went in, and they're -- they're hugging and kissing the police and the guards. you know, they're -- they had great relationships. a lot of the people were waved in. and then, they walked in and they walked out. >> so, to hear him say it sounds like he is talking about wedding crashers. friendly, wedding crashers. a little huggy kissy with security but no biggie. do you suppose the former president would say the same to those who loved officer brian s sicknick? or the two officers who died by suicide in the wake of the attack? does he think the mob chasing officer eugene goodman just wanted to plant a great, big kiss on his cheek? is that what he believes? does he even care? just to make it plain, i want you to hear the former president's words, again. only this time, accompanied by more, real images of the actual event, instead of the fantasy version he's created for himself. decide, for yourself, what to
make of it. >> it was a zero threat. right from the start, it was zero threat. look. they went in. they shouldn't have done it. some of them went in and they're -- they're hugging and kissing the police and the guards. you know, they're -- they had great relationships. a lot of the people were waved in. and then, they walked in and they walked out. >> a lie. about an attack, inspired by lies. cops paid the price for it. democracy took a hit and might have crumbled. and now, it's under threat in statehouses, nationwide, by laws inspired by the same, toxic lie. earlier tonight, i spoke about it with tatlanta mayor keisha lance bottoms. >> mayor bottoms, what does it tell you the former president who tried to steal the election in georgia is applauding this law and say suggesting it's too didn't happen sooner? what does that tell you about what that law is really about?
>> that's all we need to know. anything that the former president is celebrating is usually not a good thing for -- for voters, the majority of the voters in the state of georgia. and it -- it -- it is -- it's exhausting. given the record turnout that we had in this state. given that our current governor was secretary of state, before he became the governor. the now-secretary of state touted the integrity of the election. and here we are. >> so, you mentioned the -- the georgia secretary of state, brad raffensperger. who did say, the election was free and fair, and there was no fraud. but he, also, said, of this law, that he thinks it's fair. he thinks that cries of voter suppression from those on the left ring hollow. those were his exact words. he also said, quote, these narratives are lazy, biased, and political, as they are demonstrably wrong. he notes, he thinks, the voter i.d. i.d. isn't voter suppression. he thinks that for the first time, drop boxes are now written into law.
so, what do you say to him? >> well, there are several things. but i would love for him to explain what's lazy about offering an 80-year-old woman a bottle of water as she waits in the summer heat to vote in georgia. because that's what happened in our june primary. our primary was held june 9th, in the dead of summer, in georgia. there were lines outside of doors. people waited for hours. so we can't offer them a bottle of water? and he calls that lazy? it -- was it lazy, when governor kemp went and used the drop box while he was being quarantined, to cast his ballot? was that lazy? or is it, now, lazy because democrats won in georgia? it is ridiculous. it is unnecessary. and it is an affront to the legacy of john lewis, joseph
lowry, ct vivian, and so many others who we lost in 2020, who laid down their lives to give people the right to vote in this state and across this country. >> what message do you think it sends when governor kemp signed the bill? he did it in his office, surrounded by white men, with that painting, which we think is the callaway plantation hanging above them. >> well, clearly, the imagery has not been lost on the nation. and it is -- this bill has so many layers of issues in it. and many of them, disproportionately, impact minority voters. so when you talk about this bill, and now the need, suddenly, to have to have a copy of your i.d. to vote by absentee ballot. think of all of the poor people, and perhaps elderly people, who don't have printers in their homes. where are they supposed to go and make a copy of their i.d.? and -- and -- and this is not an
issue, it has not been an issue in this state for any number of years, right up until democrats won this state last year. and so, you know, it -- we are where we are. i do hope that there will be relief that will be given to us by congress. that there will, also, be an opportunity for us to overturn this, in the courts. but then, there's the opportunity for us, who are able, to still show up and stand in the long lines that we see quite often across this state. there is an opportunity for us to still show up and vote, in record numbers, so that we can make meaningful change across this state. >> you talked about the recourse that you have. yes, there is a bill in congress right now. the house has passed it. the senate is considering it. but as you well know, it doesn't have the votes to pass in the senate, as things stand now. the president. he is on your side. he's called the georgia law jim
crow in the 21st century. he said the justice department is looking into it. but absent any-federal intervention of the courts, which i am not sure you should count on given the makeup of the supreme court. you know, what else can you do? >> we can still show up and vote, in the same way that ambassador young reminded us recently of a 74% voter turnout. when there was one day of voting, in the midst of a very bad storm in georgia. we have to stand up and vote. and we've got to stand up and vote, and we've got to bring people to the polls with us to stand in the gap for those voters, whose votes will be suppressed. so i think this will be a rallying cry for people across this state. and i -- i just caution the rest of america. understand that these same type of laws and this -- this effort to suppress the vote won't stop in georgia. we're going to see it happening in states, across this country. so, we all need to be vigilant. and -- and be aware of what's happening. >> mayor keisha lance bottoms,
we appreciate your time. thank you so much for being with us tonight. >> thank you for having me. a rebuttal, now, to the former president's depiction of the insurrection. it comes, from democratic congr congressman, former army ranger, jason crow, who was pinned down along with lawmakers and staffers inside the house gallery. we also spoke just before air. congressman crow, what do you think of the former president's comments that the rioters, his supporters, were, quote, zero threat on january 6th? >> well, that is perfectly predictable for president trump. he's always denied that this was a problem or he had any role in it. and i expect we'll continue to see this. and, you know, unfortunately, the issue is less donald trump doing this because we would expect that out of donald trump. it's more his enablers, and those in congress, who continue to do it. and try to downplay the significance of the attack, how
they see the deaths and the murders that occurred as a result of it. >> yeah. i mean, secret service agents guarding then vice president mike pence and his family certainly didn't think the rioters were zero threat. i mean, how insulting are the former president's comments to law enforcement, the line likes of which we are seeing here assault and overrun, beaten on that day? and obviously, fallen officer brian sicknick. >> yeah. you know, when i heard those comments, i actually was thinking about a couple of the officers that i have actually grown pretty close to over the last couple years. one of whom, i called the day after the attack. and asked him how he was doing. he was on one of the riot teams. riot-control teams. and he told me about how he had fought, for hours, literally, fighting back for hours, until eventually, he was overrun and just laid on the ground separated from his team. and he thought he was going to be killed. instead, he was beaten for about 20 or 30 minutes, and was covered in bruises, from head to toe. the very next day, he was back
at work limping around capitol hill. doing his job. so, he certainly doesn't think that those folks were no threat. that those rioters were no threat. and obviously, the family of officer sicknick and all the others. i was there. i saw the danger that we were all in. you know, they erected a gallows with a noose right outside of the capitol. this is a big problem, and obviously the president is going to continue to do what he does. but the enablers, and people in congress, need to stop. >> well, talk to me about the enablers. i mean, i was trying to think of an historical precedent here, of a former president of the united states who would spend his post-white-house years defending an insurrection. the only one i come up with is like john tyler, who ended up siding with the confederacy in the civil war. i mean, that is the legacy we are talking about here. >> yeah. you look at what other presidents spend their time doing. you know, philanthropy. you have president carter building homes for homeless folks. you have george w. bush painting, you know, paintings of
the disabled, wounded veterans. and then, you have donald trump trying to legitimize an insurrection and -- and a riot and the murder that occurred, as a result of it. you know, the contrast couldn't be any more stark. and you know, this -- this isn't just an issue of historical integrity, right? i mean, i -- i -- i think it is important that we have historical record of this and i have actually introduced the capitol remembrance act to make sure that we are memorializing the deaths and having proper record of the attack. but even more so, there is an ongoing threat to this. if we downplay it, if we normalize it, if we say this isn't a big issue. the problem is, is we have these anti-government groups, these extremists, who remain a severe national-security threat to us. and -- and it makes it harder for us to address that threat, in the way that we need to. >> will you still work with these republicans, who continue to back the former president and his big lie?
>> well, i look at it this way. there is a broad spectrum of my gop colleagues. you know, you have the folks, the extreme folks. you know, the mo biggs. the marjorie taylor greenes. the andy biggs of the world. those folks, i am just not going to work with them because i'm not going to normalize that extremism. i'm not going to normalize violent rhetoric and stuff that's a threat to the no democracy, as i see it. then, you have the adam kinzingers of the world that are really standing up and trying to do the right thing. and rebuild the republican party. and, you know, and -- and -- in its older image. and then, there is a lot of people that fall somewhere in between. so i am really dealing with this on a case-by-case basis. but it's hard. i don't think there is any member of congress, certainly on my side of the aisle, that isn't struggling with how to deal with that right now. >> congressman jason crow, thank you for your time tonight. thank you. >> thanks, john. next, president biden's decision to start naming and blaming the former president.
and the question of how long voters will let him do it. and later. new developments in the boulder mass shooting. what we are learning about how the alleged killer got his gun. with custom gear from custom ink. we've developed new tools to make it easy for you. custom ink has hundreds of products, including masks, to help you stay connected. upload your logo or start your design today at customink.com.
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joe biden has pleasantly surprised some democratic-political professionals for what he is getting done. and how little he's doing to distract from it. part of that discipline has been not focusing excessive attention on his predecessor. >> trump, trump, trump, trump. president trump. trump, trump. >> joanining us now, cath lien lieury, white house reporter with "the wall street journal." and democratic strategist, paul begala. i want to start with you, you were at the press conference yesterday. were you surprised president biden mentioned the former president as many times as he did? i mean, this was a white house
in transition bragging at the fact that he wouldn't even say trump's name. >> i was covering the press conference yesterday, i was not at it. a colleague of mine was in attendance and did a great job. but yeah, certainly, we saw a shift here from the president. at this "cnn town hall," not long ago, he basically referred to former-president trump as the other guy. and his camp -- his white house has been very message disciplined, so far. we have seen them really try and focus on their covid response. on what they are trying to do to revive the economy. deal with the health issues related to the pandemic. and really tried to keep the focus on that, in the early days. but what you saw, yesterday, was the president taking for the first time questions on a number of issues. i mean, among them, most notably, immigration. and the issue of the surge of migrants at the border and that was where you saw him put the most blame on his predecessor.
he really said he inherited these problems from trump. that he was trying to fix what he had -- you know, he had, when he came into office. and that this was something that was going to take time for him. he, also, did, you know, get asked a number of questions about trump, obviously. so you heard him -- asked about whether he would be running against him in 2024. and he seemed to, you know, joke a little bit about that. one point, he sort of said, come on. but, yes, certainly this was more than we have heard him mention his predecessor than in the past. >> so, paul, obviously, every president has knocked his predecessor in one way or another. especially, presidents from different parties but, you know, biden worked hard not to give the former president oxygen. so, why do it now? if he wants to move on, why dwell on the last few years? >> well, i think, the greatest-political strategist, who wasn't named carvill, when you asked him how is your wife? compared to sfwha how is biden? compared to what? and the desire, the need, even to blame your predecessor is
much more pronounced when you have defeated your predecessor, right? democrats blame poor herbert hoover for 50 years after fdr beat him in 1932. so biden won because the country rejected trump. i also think this is a way for him to hold his very broad, democratic coalition together. which actually is not just democrats. he got a lot of anti-trump republican votes and he wants to remind, i think, those folks that he inherited a big mess. caused by the former guy, as katherine correctly points out. he used to call him. so i think it's a very -- i think it's a smart thing. i wouldn't do it every day. i think he's been remarkably -- he's supposed to a gaffe machine, he has been a disciplined machine. >> on the subject of the border, and cath lkatherine, that is re where it was most pronounced. how long do you think president biden can blame the trump administration for this? and at what point will they have
to take ownership for it? >> you're right. that really was where it was the most pronounced and paul is correct. i mean, the blame game is, certainly, not a new game for a new president and it's not surprising that they would be noting this. particularly, because immigration and the border was such a signature issue and focus for former-president trump. but that said, you know, the president and his team. they know that, looking ahead to the midterm elections, they have to get points on the board. they have to right some of these situations. they have to -- on both immigration but also on covid, on the pandemic, on the economy. that they are going to have to be seen as handling these situations. and that voters are not going to, still, be looking at him running against trump in -- in 20 -- in the next round of elections. so, they do really have to, you know, move forward. and i think they are aware that they have to be shown as -- as handling these. >> paul, only one president at a time, as you well know. as you probably once said.
>> yes. and -- and that is our president joe biden. i think he's got a perfect right to contrast himself. i talk to a very senior democrat in a state where trump had won. and then, joe biden flipped it. and i said what do you think democrats ought to be doing? and he said bragging and blaming and lots of both. it is a good strategy. >> it is interesting, paul, i wonder if you can expand on it a little bit because i hadn't quite thought of it like that. which is that trump is the coalition, in a way. right now, trump is what galvanizes or brings them all together. is that a comfortable place to be? is that something that can last? >> challenging place. oh, my gosh. i don't know anybody but joe -- but president biden who could pull it off. you have a party in a senate, his party swings from joe manchin to bernie sanders. i mean, that will give you the benz, man. he got, you know, biden won by getting the -- the broad coalition was people who didn't like trump. and people who hated trump. so i think keeping him in the
mix can be useful. katherine's right. the most important thing is he does a good job. he's got to actually put pointing on the board, as cath l katherine said. >> paul begala, katherine lucy, thank you both very much for being with us. next, an update from boulder on the gun used in the mass shooting on monday. as authorities continue to trace the suspect's movements in search for a motive.
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the police chief in boulder said today that the gun used in monday's mass shooting at a grocery store was purchased legally. this, as the boulder police department said the officer, who was among those killed in the rampage, eric talley, led a contact team of officers into the store within 30 seconds of arriving on the scene. cnn's kyung lah is in boulder tonight. kyung, what more are we learning about the investigation tonight?
>> well, john, you mentioned 30 seconds. how quickly they entered the store. the police department detailed exactly how that first contact happened. that officer talley led in that first-contact team. and immediately, they took on gunfire. that officer talley was fatally shot, then, by the suspect. and that, the suspect kept firing until officers took him into custody. but because those police officers were taking on all that gunfire, no one else in the store was shot or killed. and we are, also, learning from the gun store that this gunman purchased the gun six days ago -- six days before this shooting. but that this gun was legally purchased. and that he passed a background test. that the -- the background check was conducted by the gun shop. and there, simply, was nothing that prevented him from purchasing this weapon, john. >> important to note. what are investigators saying about the alleged shooter's move? motive? >> you know, that is something that the police chief here
called haunting. that it was haunting investigators because they -- they just don't know, yet. and they don't know if they will ever know. some of the questions that they have. why did he pick this store? it is 30 minutes from his home. why did he pick monday? why did he choose to do it this way? they just don't know, yet. >> so, the district attorney, we are also told, plans on filing more charges against the shoot shooter. what kind of charges? >> well, i mentioned how police officers were taking on all that gunfire. well, because of that, the prosecutors feel that they will be able to put on additional attempted-murder charges. so far, this suspect is facing ten counts of murder and an 11th charge of attempted murder by firing on one of the police officers. they anticipate additional charges in the next two weeks, john. >> kyung lah, as always, thank you so much for your reporting. meanwhile, in atlanta, one of the eight people killed last week in the spa-related killings was remembered at her funeral
today. she was the 49-year-old owner of one of those stores. her ex-husband said her family, abroad, would like her now-adult daughter to live in china because he said, quote, they don't think it's safe here, anymore. just ahead. a controversial theory about the origins of the kcoronavirus now publicly endorsed by the former director of the cdc. dr. sanjay gupta joins us to discuss what dr. robert redfield told him in a new, special report that airs sunday night. lets the immune system attack, attack, attack cancer. pd-l1 transformed, revolutionized, immunotherapy. pd-l1 saved my life. saved my life. saved my life. what we do here at dana-faber, changes lives everywhere. everywhere. everywhere. everywhere. everywhere.
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so jeff, you need all those screens streaming over your xfinity xfi... for your meeting? uhh yes. and your lucky jersey? oh, yeah. lauren, a cooler? it's hot. it's march. and jay, what's with all your screens? just checking in with my team... of colleagues. so you're all streaming on every device in the house, what?!! that was a foul. it's march... ...and you're definitely not watching basketball. no, no. i'm definitely not watching basketball. right... ( horn blaring )
former cdc director robert redfield has created a huge stir for endorsing a controversial theory about the origins of the coronavirus. one, president biden did not appear to want to touch when asked about it today. the comments come in a new cnn special report airing sunday night. and joining us now, chief medical correspondent, dr. sanjay gupta. and sanjay, i want to get right to it because honestly, it's extraordinary. this is a clip of your interview with dr. redfield. >> if i was to guess, this virus started transmitting somewhere in september/october in wuhan.
>> september or october? >> that's my opinion. i am allowed to have opinions. you know, i am of the point of view that i still think the most likely etiology of this pathogen in wuhan was from a laboratory. escaped. other people don't believe that. that's fine. science will eventually figure it out. it's not unusual for respiratory pathogens that are being worked on in laboratory, to infect the laboratory worker. >> reporter: it is also not unusual for that type of research to be occurring in wuhan. the city is a widely known center for viral studies in china. including, the wuhan isnstitute of virology, which has experimented extensively with bat coronaviruses. >> it is a remarkable conversation i feel like we are having here because you are the former cdc director and you were the director at the time this was all happening. >> reporter: for the first time, the former-cdc director is stating publicly, that he believes this pandemic started months earlier than we knew.
and that it originated, not at a wet market but, inside a lab in china. these are two significant things to say, dr. redfield. >> that's not applying any intentionality. you know? it's my opinion. right? but i am a virologist. i have spent my life in virology. i do not believe this, somehow, came from a bat to a human. and at that moment in time, the virus that came to the human became one of the most-infectious viruses that we know in humanity for human-to-human transmission. normally, when a pathogen goes to human, it takes a while to -- to figure out how to become more and more efficient in human-to-human transmission. i just don't think this makes sense. >> so in a lab, do you think that process of becoming more efficient was happening? is that what you are suggesting? >> yeah, let's just say i have coronavirus that i am working on. most of us in the lab, we are trying to grow virus. we try to help make it grow
better and better and better and better and better so we can do experiments and figure out about it. that's -- that's the way i put tog it together. >> sanjay, this is a big deal. it's a big deal to hear this from the former-cdc director. he doesn't necessarily think the virus escaped from the lab intentionally and he said science will eventually figure it out. but first, how could or would a virus, in theory, escape from a lab? >> well, it likely would escape with one of the -- the lab workers. either, inside that person's body. or even, you know, there was concern about whether it could be carried on surfaces. you know? we're not sure. but that sort of thing does happen, john. it's happened in labs in china. it's happened in labs in the united states. there was a -- the tulane primate lab. they were working with a particular bacteria that had a lab escape. so this sort of thing happens. i think this theory has been out there for some time and i got to tell you, john. i wasn't so surprised at what dr. redfield said because the
theory's been out there. i was surprised that he said it. cdc director. has access to raw intelligence, raw data, that i've never had access to. and he came -- i pushed, many times, asked this question many times and he really stuck to this narrative about the lab leak. >> well, you and i talked about this earlier today. redfield says it's just his opinion. i don't know that the cdc director who sees stauff we are not seeing has just an opinion on this. it would surprise me ifhasn't sn something more than we have to formulate this opinion. do dr. fauci, anyone else, share this opinion? >> well, you know, they -- they -- it's interesting. no one will come right out and -- he was the most vocal and the most, sort of, adamant. dr. redfield was. but no one will come right out, and totally dismiss this, either. they'll say the -- you know, the -- the likely theory is that it's -- you know, this came from -- from bats to humans via some intermediary host. that's what everyone sort of has said.
that's the official line. the world health organization calls the lab-leak theory very unlikely. but i got to tell you, john. there is a 400-page report. we just heard about that that is going to be coming out in the ne next few days. other partners. they are going to be -- they investigated. they are looking at this. i don't know whether that will be conclusive or not. it may not be, in the end. they may not arrive at any conclusion despite the fact that it's 400 pages long. >> we got to go about 20 seconds, sanjay. but how could we know for sure? >> it's -- it's tough. i mean, one thing, you would go back, you would look at some of those earliest people within that lab. did they get sick? do they have antibodies? contact trace. do all the, sort of -- sort of public-health investigations that you normally do. maybe, you still don't get an answer but that's sort of how this investigation sort of unfolds. >> how much of this depends on transparency from china? >> a lot of it, john, and i think that -- that may be the biggest weight-limiting step
here because they have got to get access to people. they have got to be able to look at those blood samples. they have got to understand and put a picture together. how -- how early this was spreading? and how many people were being affected in that lab? >> dr. sanjay gupta. i have to say, this is really interesting stuff. this special will make a big, big difference. they need to watch. covid war, the pandemic doctors speak out airs this sunday night at 9:00 p.m., only on cnn. still to come. what will the biden administration do to protect asian-americans who have become targets? anderson's discussion with president biden's top-domestic adviser, susan rice, when 360 continues. the world around you may seem like an immovable, implacable place. it is not. it can be bright. quiet. and safe. it's a change that will be felt from this street. to this street. to no street. and everywhere in between. all it takes is the slightest push in just the right place and that will be the tipping point that changes everything. for people living with h-i-v, keep being you. ♪ ♪
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but the steps necessary to end the attacks on our fellow citizens. anderson spoke with susan rice earlier about the administration's plan for action. >> specifically, is there much the biden administration can do about it? >> well, yes, anderson and we have from the outset, in the first week of the administration president biden instructed his government to acknowledge and root out anti-asian violence and it's been on a horrific spike over the course of the last year. fueled in part, we have to acknowledge by the hostile rhetoric of some prior lead onners in the federal government.
this has been a growing problem. we have to collect data more rigorously on hate crimes and be clear about who is facing what kinds of threats and attacks. the government has resources that can invest in community on organizations that are working to prevent violence at the local level. and of course, the justice department, which attorney general merrick garland will bring their tools to bear to fight crimes against asian americans and pacific islanders. >> are there laws that you are looking at? >> they reauthorized in the congress, the violence against women act. that would protect women of color, and all women facing domestic violence, it was a horrible on mix in atlanta of hate crime, racism, and misogyny and that disproportionately targeted asian-american women. it was an example of gun violence and president biden has
long been a leader to combat gun violence. again, there's legislation pending before the senate, having passed the house to strengthen the background check system that closes loopholes and allows violent offenders to obtain firearms. >> what do you attribute the violence to? obviously you said there's a long history of violence against minority communities for a long time, communities of color as well as asian communities. how much of it is, you know, stems from the history, or just our history, our system, and frankly as you said the rhetoric of the former administration? >> well, i think it's a combination of all of the above.
but, what we have had in the last year, with this extraordinary spike in violence and crime, hate crimes against asian-americans and pacific islanders has been tied to the covid-19 pandemic. and has been tied to anti-asian rhetoric, when the, you know, when former leaders talk about the china virus or the wuhan flu or horrible, horrible things like that. it has a terrible, terrible impact and that is not to be tolerated. and in the biden administration, we are calling that out, and we are saying we will not, we will not contemplate that in any way shape of form. and another thing, anderson, just to go back, you asked about laws. you know, there's a law pending before congress called the covid-19 hate crimes act. which, the president has strongly endorsed and called to be swiftly enacted in to law and
it responds to what we have seen spike in terms of hate crimes against asian americans over the last year. >> i read your memoire several years ago and you write a lot about your mom, in a "new york times" piece in 2019, you wrote an article called what my father taught me about race. and you said, until his death, dad remained bitter about segregation in the military, pro foundly protest thing the fighting for all but him. he served in the tuskegee airmen unit. what do you think he would make of where we are right now in this country? >> well, i think he would have mixed feelings, anderson. in some respects he would be, you know, proud as he was of this country and grateful to serve it. but i think he would also be deeply concerned about our tremendous political polarization, and the fact that we have in so many ways seen many demonstrations of systemic racism and one thing that i love about my dad, he always called on me, and my brother and all
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