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tv   Reliable Sources with Brian Stelter  CNN  January 17, 2021 8:00am-9:00am PST

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this is "reliable sources," where we examine the story behind the story and we figure out what is reliable. brand-new polling showing trump's big election lie is widely believed. what are the consequences? we're going to get into that. plus, how should the press cover this pro trump insurgency. chris krebbs is here with answers about that.
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plus reporters deployed to the state capitol with bulletproof vests. this is gear they needed in iraq and afghanistan. now they need it in america. later, the absolutely scorching statement from rupert murdoch's son and big moves at fox news. but we begin at the end. the end of president trump's term in office. with three days until president-elect biden's inauguration, let's analyze the wars that he will inherit. these are conflicts that are part of trump's legacy. though, he and his allies claim otherwise. >> i'm proud to say with just a few days left in this administration that this is the first administration in decades not to get america into a new war. >> mr. vice president, you are
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wrong. i know what you literally mean about forward engagements and i appreciate you were filling in as president this week trying to show leadership because trump can't, trying to show the world that america is okay. we are not okay. we are not okay at all. we are not at peace. there is a new war, a war at home. look at washington this morning. there is a red zone and a green zone and a massive military presence. we have just received these incredible aerial images from a cnn drone. you see warriors outside the white house, outside black lives matter plaza. you see troops walking down some of the city's boulevards. the streets otherwise mostly empty closed off to traffic in ways that are really crippling the town for residents of washington, d.c., to people that want to move around downtown, d.c. you can see preparations for biden's inauguration there at
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the white house. amazing images. a city in crisis, a city in lockdown, and this is how the world sees america now. just listen to how foreign correspondents from other countries are describing d.c. right now. >> the threat which still remains is turning this normally calm capitol into a militarized zone. >> thousands of national guard troops found out. >> washington is in lockdown. >> they call this the green zone. >> security is being winched tighter now in the u.s. capitol. >> it looks like a capitol under siege. >> it is so jarring to hear that, jarring to see the coverage from around the world. but these are the scars of the trump years. these are signs of the war at home. now, remember the left wing protests on trump's inauguration. there was a limousine set on fire. maybe this fire set by left wing radicals was foreshadowing what was to come. in general and especially now, i
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think we should all be restrained with war metaphors given the unique terror of true combat. but war has kept coming to mind these past four years with the president waging a war on the truth. lately it seems a war on reality itself. a war with reality, a country at war with ourselves. look, on january 6th, that riot of lies, some of those rioters pretended like they were at war. they dressed for combat. they fan tatized about a new several war. thankfully they didn't get it. but that's a big part of the legacy of these years. a war at home. with me now is one of the most accomplished white house correspondents of all-time, maggy haber man, white house correspondent for "the new york times" and a cnn political
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analyst. she knows trump like no other. maggy, thank you for coming on. >> thank you for having me. you reported on january 6th the president was watching the riot. he was engrossed in the coverage. is that what he's doing now his final weekend is just watching tv. >> we haven't heard from him because he has no twitter feed. he didn't want to use any other method of communication to talk. he had pivoted away from using television himself as we talked to people once those coronavirus briefs were calamitous during the year in 2020. but what he's doing is he has not accepted he lost, but he has accepted the fact that he is not going to be president after noon an wednesday. the white house is being packed up. he is ftaking farewell talks to aids. he is still telling people he won. the idea he has accepted the
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loss, he is not there yet, if he is ever going to get there. i think the question remains, brian, what we have seen him do. he spent most of friday in the oval office in a meeting with the secretary of defense talking in part about what this sendoff would look like on wednesday where he's going to get a 21 gun salute, where they're talking about a flyover. there will be a military band. we'll see if he ends up delivering remarks. that had not been the plan. >> he wanted a military parade in d.c. what about his media habits throughout the four years. i remember in 2017 people doubted you when you reported that trump watched four plus hours of tv a day. it was shocking when he reported that. now, of course, it is obviously true and we saw it for years on his twitter feed. we all know the president is a tv addict. i wonder if you thought about then versus now, the start of
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the trump presidency versus the end and how it took a while for folks to realize how unusual he really was as a president. >> no. i think that's right, brian. i think there were two things. i think it took people a while to realize how different he was and it took people a while to accept the office was not changing him. if anything, he wanted to change the office. and i think he succeeded in many ways. i don't think that some of those changes, if any, are going to be permanent. i think joe biden is showing he will restore the office to some semblance of normalcy of the modern presidency. but, look, there was a lot of doubting about reporting about what he was doing and what he was up to. you had people, you know, discounting it from the political left and then you had trump's allies on the political right trying to undermine it. i think that time has proven that his media habits are just what they are. and if anything, four to five hours was a conservative estimate. the only thing i would mention in terms of his viewing habits, the tv was often just on in the
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background, brian, whether it was in the residence or whether he was sitting in that dining room off the oval office where he had a huge flat screen tv put in early on. it was background noise and if he heard his name mentioned or some other topic, he would stop talking and pay attention. >> he would fast forward through the non-trump segments. trump gave 119 interviews to fox news during his presidency. put on screen the graphic here. all the other networks had fewer than 10 interviews. and cnn stayed at zero the entire time, which is remarkable given in cnn's history every president sat down with cnn. trump had a presidential snub for cnn in his four years. now he has no plans for a farewell address, an exit interview. as you mentioned, he's been largely absence from the fpress
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since election night. i suppose my question is why. >> well, i think one thing that we can't ignore, brian, is that he's also the first president going out after being impeached twice because of his role in a rally that of his supporters that happened right before a riot at the capital that left five people dead. so there is that first two. >> right. >> i think his advisers are aware -- look, part of how the white house counsel was able to get the president to say something to try to stop the rioters as this was happening, which the president insisted on doing on jan 6th was telling him he had legal exposure. if not criminal, he certainly is likely to face, and they think, i'm basing this on what they're saying, civil suits. if he goes out and talks more, he is simply adding fuel to the
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fire. the only time we have heard from him is this pre-recorded video. we have seen many videos this president gave under duress and it was clear he didn't want to be doing it in his delivery. this one didn't sound like that where he urged his supporters not to engage in fresh violence next week. that video was heavily scripted by two of the lawyers in the white house council and his speech writer steven miller. that's part of why we're not hearing him, hearing what he will say off the cuff in an interview. >> that's a scary situation, and i suspect we'll find out these final days are scarier than right now. trump always made it personal with you, maggy. can you tell us when the last time you spoke with the president was? >> i don't talk about that, brian. i'm sorry. and i would take issue with the word affection. i think the president looks for affirmation from the new york
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times. >> affirmation, that's the better word. >> for a specific reason. and specifically i get under his skin in terms of my coverage. but i think that, look, he is -- "the new york times" holds a unique place in his psyche. i would urge you to listen to the taping of the daily that ag soles burger did or at least that michael bar barrio did around an interview ( because the president had tried to get ag soels berger to meet with him off the record and he wouldn't. but if you want to understand the role the times plays in trump's mind, it's a worthwhile listen. >> what will you remember? what will you tell your hopefully some day grand kids about this experience covering trump? >> i need a little distance from it. >> do you? >> what would stand out to me, the lack of sleep would probably be a part of it. i will say this is a very minor
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point, but just the constant sense of something is about to happen, which he created with the twitter feed. but also because of the firings and the, you know, sort of calamitous policy decisions and the back and forth on things. you know, i think that's -- i think that what stands out to me is there was just this constant sense of incoming. >> yeah. >> i will probably have something more profound to say down the road. >> save it for the book. i know you are working on a book. all week long i heard the media is obsessed with trump, that we can't quit him, that we don't know what we're going to do when he leaves office. do you feel that way a little bit? >> i certainly think that trump has a point when he says that he has been good for business. i think that is just objectively the case that people sort of consuming more media around him. i don't quite think that it's what people who are saying that on fox mean, which is that people are interested -- i mean,
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i bristle at that because for the last four years he's been president and he's been president in a way that's very unusual and unusual for the presidency so, yes, that got coverage. but i do think it's going to be a test of how the media handles himself going forward, particularly absent his twitter feed because those were rationals that people pointed to as to why they were covering him. i did not think that every tweet was newsworthy, but some people did. i do think that it's going to present a challenge in terms of how he's covered going forward because his ability to just snap his fingers and get attention as president is obviously gone. he is still a dominant figure in the republican party regardless of the tensions that exist now after january 6th. he still has a majority of support among republicans, and he is reluctant to close off any avenue where he could run or something like that if he's under duress. so i don't know what it looks
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like. i think that we're all addicted thing is a clever construction, but i don't think that's reality. >> yeah. i think going forward after wednesday he will be a story. but obviously biden will be a much bigger story. that's where attention now shifts. >> correct. >> and should be, that's right. thank you so much for helping us understand the trump years. now, joe biden will take office on wednesday with a huge political disadvantage. many americans will insist that he is not really president, that he didn't really win or that he stole it from donald trump. cnn's brand-new polling out this morning asked americans if biden legitimately won enough votes to win the presidency. 99% of democrats said yes. but only 19% of republicans said yes, biden legitimately won. that means 75% of republicans say they don't think biden really won legitimately. and of that group, more than half say there is solid evidence of cheating, even though courts and news rooms all looked and looked and found something material. npr and cbs asked the question
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differently in their poll, but the results were the same. only 12%, 12% of trump voters in that poll said they trust the results of the election. this is not a fringe point of view on the right. disbelief in the election results is the mainstream position of trump believers. so what is that? it's a breakdown in trust. a breakdown in social bonds. that's one of the story lines here. so many americans, especially republicans, said they have little or no faith in the media ond other u.s. institutions. shouting about reasons why they shouldn't trust anyone or anything. a breakdown in trust softened the ground for trump's election lies. that's what january 6th was, a lie yacht of lies. it was also an awakening about far right radicalization, extremism in america. rioters in d.c. said they believed trump's lies and some say they felt directed to the capitol by trump. so now the experts who didn't
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get enough air time or attention before january 6th are getting lots of calls now and talking about the riot as the beginning of something, not the end. so what does the press need to know about covering extremism? what do you need to know? here with some pointers are the partners of the krebbs/stamos group. fact checking false election claims. and alex stamos is the director of the stanford university internet observatory and a former facebook insider. thank you both for coming on and talking us through this. chris, what are the different ways that you frame this story of extremism in america? >> yeah. thanks for having me on, brian, good morning. and alex, good morning to you over on the other side of the country. well, you know, when you see
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last week's events and we think about what might be happening in state capitols across the country right now, it is important to realize that we're not talking about a single block of activists and insurrectionists. there are factions. and, so, the frame work that i think about with the current challenge is is there is a set of actors or players on the field that are engaging. there is a sense of influencers driving them and seeking their own objectives. there is a series of america nichls using to coordinate and communicate. and, so, through these four different lenses or approaches, you can get a better understanding of really what's happening. so with those actors, there is a spectrum that goes from really intensity of intent, and that's the boog loo boys types, the perception to reset the political system and in moving
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through white supremacists, white nationalists, militias, conspiracy theorists and ending up in the disaffected voters that unfortunately have bought into the big lie that the president has been selling over the last several months. >> right. there is a wide range. and you are saying different people want different outcomes, right? some just want to feel like they're being heard. others do want civil war. there is a wide range. >> yep. and then on top of that, there are these influencers, including the president. you know, he's on one hand trying to fund-raise and continue the long con and the grift. and then on the other side of this, and this is an uncomfortable reality that we're in is that there are still state actors that are fomenting unrest here in the united states. there is the russians, for instance, according to a report out from the u.s. government earlier in this past week where the russians are trying to
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confuse who is actually behind it and continue to push that antifa was the group that stormed the capitol. yet, the iranians who want at all cost it is president of the out white house and then the third that you have the chinese who continue to contrast their style of government against democracy that they see as inherently corrupt and, you know, on an unsound foundation. so we have domestic actors as well as foreign actors. that's why, again, you have to think about the different players, the different influencers and ultimately what do they want to get out all of this. >> right. alex, what is your answer to how the press should be covering extremism right now? >> yeah. like chris said, there is a couple of different groups here. to me, it is that line of men in matching green tactical outfits with their hands on their shoulders snaking their way through the disorganized mob.
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a large number of people who are angry and believe they have been lied to by the right news about the election and who want to show that anger and they want to feel like they're part of something. within that disorganized mob, you have a small number of people who are highly organized and who really want to create violence. so i think one of the things we have to do is we have to be careful to try to separate those out and to not allow that small group of organized people to speak on behalf of everybody. that is one of the problems i think we'll have around media coverage of this, is that the 3%, the proud boys, folks like that that they will be given an out sized influence add their messages will be amplified over and over again because their messages are extremely scary. those groups need to be treated like isis. there is a history between law enforcement and social media companies to be able to reduce
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the influence of those groups. then we have to work on the broader disinformation problem to turn down the anger that you see from that huge percentage of republicans who believe the election was stolen. >> biden denialism is very well and widespread, so is riot denialism. both are happening. both are happening from the same platforms. both are problematic. chris, what do you say to the following? we have to be clear eyed but also very careful not to exaggerate it, not to overstate or create undue fear in this country right now? >> i think that's absolutely right. we have to be very careful here. just because someone may believe that the president did not win the election or the president-elect biden did not win or that someone believes in qanon doesn't mean they're going to go pick up arms and go riot. and this is the challenge that we're facing. i don't think that as a society,
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certainty the current administration hasn't done enough to study and understand and consider this challenge, and that's in part what we're trying to accomplish at the aspen institute with the commission on information disorder that i will be chairing, is look at the different factors from the federal government side, the international community side, the private sector, civil society and academia. what are the roles we can pull over the short-term and the long-term to restore some sign of normalcy back to the information space. >> is that possible, alex? will there ever be a solution to this information crisis that has been perpetuated in my view like facebook as well as twitter and others? >> it is really hard because what's happening is people are able to seek out the information that makes them feel good. that is what's happening. people have so much choice now.
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they can choose what their news sources are. they can choose what influencers they want to follow and they can try to seal out anything that helps them question that. i think that gets to a really core issue with how our freedoms as americans in the way we have treated press freedom in the past is being abused by these actors in that we have given a lot of leeway both in the traditional media and on social media to people to have a very broad range of political views. it is now in the great economic interest of those individuals to become more and more radical. one of the places you can see this is on the fact that you now have competitors to fox news on their right, which are carried by all the major cable networks who are trying to outflank fox on the right because the moment fox introduced any kind of realism into their reporting, immediately a bunch of people chose to put themselves into a sealed ecosystem. they can do that both on cable.
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they can do it online. that becomes a huge challenge in figuring out how do you bring people back into the mainstream and try to get us back into the same consensual reality. >> and is that possible? >> it's hard. i think we got to do a couple things. there needs to be an intentional work by the social media companies collaborating together in the same way they worked on isis. when i started on facebook in 2019, the number one challenge from a content perspective was the abuse of social media by the islamic state. there was a collaboration between the tech companies and law enforcement to make it impossible for them to use the internet to recruit and radicalize mostly young muslim and at the same around the world. now we're talking about domestic audience in the united states. the challenge is going to be partially that isis did not have a domestic constituency in the united states congress, but there is over half of the
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republicans in congress voted to overturn the election. and there will be a continual political pressure on the companies to not take it seriously. first you have to focus on the violent extremists. and, second, we have to turn down the influencers to reach these huge audiences. there are people on youtube, for example, that have a larger audience than daytime cnn, and they are extremely radical and pushing extremely radical views. and, so, it is up to the facebooks and youtubes in particular to think about whether or not they want to be effectively cable networks for disinformation. and then we have to figure out the oann and newsmax problem that these companies have freedom of speech but i'm not sure we need them to be brought into tens of millions of homes. this is allowing people to seek out information if they want to but not pushing it into their faces is really where we're going to have to go here. >> alex and chris, thank you
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both for looking ahead with us. >> thank you. coming up, you saw during the insurrection on january 6th members of the press became moving targets. i will tell you about new security measures to keep reporters protected. plus, breaking news about the biden's first press briefing. plus, why kamala harris is front and center in the news coverage about a new white house. ir educ. with flexpath from capella university, you can complete your rn-to-bsn program in 9 months and under $10,000. capella university. don't just learn, learn smarter.
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welcome back to "reliable sources." i'm brian setter. nine members of the media were assaulted on january 6th and others were threatened and harassed. now we are seeing news organizations take unprecedented steps to protect their crews in the field, from bulletproof vests to buddy systems. this is happening at national and local outlets. all steps up security measures. i'm hearing about it every day. two leaders join me now to discuss these new measures. nicole carol and dan shelly, a nonprofit that just unveiled a training center with resources for reporters uncovering this unrest. nicole, first to you, what are you doing to take care of your crews, your reporters in the field? i know we don't get too detailed about security. but in some cases armed body guards, other steps. what are you doing? >> thanks, brian. we take this threat very
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seriously. last week during the riots, they scrawled murder the media in the capitol. there had been calls for extremists to target journalists. so we take the threat seriously and we take the protection seriously. we consulted with professional security to make sure we have the right equipment and communication. we have done quite a bit of training with our teams, talking about the buddy system. you are constantly in touch with us. you are constantly in touch with your partner. so we're taking it seriously, but we're not going to stop doing our jobs. this is risky to go out, but it is more risky to not go out. it is more risky to let disinformation spread. >> dan, what are you hearing from location stations? i'm hearing news crews not doing live shots in the field. instead, they're doing taped segments. i'm hearing about taking the logos off the micro foes, off of news trucks. all of those steps to make
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things safer. what are you hearing? >> i'm hearing many of the same things, brian. i would also add to what nick code said, this is the most perilous time for journalists in the field in the modern history of the united states. i know that's saying a lot, but that's the reason behind the safety resources we just launched in partnership with our other press freedom groups that we worked with. this is really pervasive and it's not just the u.s. capitol. it is not just state capitols. it is in communities large and small in all 50 states. >> tell us where people can find those resources, dan. >> it is >> and i think the big picture point is journalists aren't going to back down. this is about trying to do jobs as safely as possible but making sure we witness what's happening, especially these state capitols where there is witness about attacks and violence. >> exactly. we have folks all across
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washington, d.c. of course. the threats have been made to capitols across the country. so we're in more than 40 state capitols right now. again, we're there to do our jobs. we're there to tell the truth. i saw your intro about the war on reality is great. it is true. we're the ones who present reality. we're the ones who tell reality. that's making us a target, but it also shows why your jobs are more important than ever. >> what was it like this week, nicole creating a front page that said impeached again, you know, second impeachment? it feels like we're living years of history every week right now. >> it's true. you know, we thought, you know, with 2020 behind us things might slow down. that's not the case. we are living history. for us, we recognize the seriousness of it and we're constantly working on the exact words.
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we're working on how we present this because we want to make sure because these are very grave actions and we need to represent the seriousness of them. >> that's a great point. the big picture is local news plays a key role in helping people gain and regain trust. if you don't believe cnn when we say biden was elected maybe you will believe your local news anchor or your local paper. >> and public opinion has said that for some time, that it's kind of like the old analogy, everybody says they hate congress but they love their own member of congress. that may not be as true today as it was once. people say they hate the media in the aggregate, but they sure like john smith that gives them the local news at 6:00 on channel 2. so there is a difference between perceptions of local media versus national media. and i think it's up to the local media to take on this burden of special responsibility because the people who report, the photo
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journalists in local communities, they're the neighbors of the people that they're reporting for. they're serving the public. they're serving their neighbors. they're dealing with the same local issues that the people on whom and for whom they're reporting deal with. i think that's an important distinction to make. this sounds trite, but journalists are people, too, and journalists are there to serve the communities in which they live. >> trite, but i like it. dan, thank you. nicole, thank you very much. we will have more on this subject. we have a story coming out about safety and security. you can get it in the reliable sources newsletter. sign up for free at trump leaving the white house. fox news losing its grip. now the network is struggling in the ratings like i have never seen before. i'll show you next. . so we built an education just as smart. so smart it can work at my speed?
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i'll tell you what, a historic shift in cable news is happening right now. the fox news channel audience is dmorized and in some cases tuning out. the network finds itself falling behind cn initial and nbc in overall television viewer ship. really remarkable changes in the ratings. look at this graphic that tells the story. this is the year to date. fox is the red line. and normally that red line would be high at the top. cnn is now number one in the viewer race. it's going on 9, 10 days now. msnbc also surging but not to the same degree as cnn. what does this mean? what does it say? i think it's a signal that people are looking for real lose about terror and abilout the pa dem ocratic right now. there are a lot of factors here. it is also fox feeling pressure from newsmax, pressure from the right like you see there.
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news max saying that fox is on the run. rupert murdoch is reasserting himself at fox and that in part explains why the schedule at fox is blowing upstarting tomorrow 7:00 p.m. anchor martha mccallum has been demoted to the 3:00 p.m. hour. she was holding one of the other hours of news coverage in a prominent position at fox news. her news coverage leaned dramatically to the right, but it still counted as news according to fox news. now that program is losing its 7:00 p.m. time slot. let's talk about this, the cable news landscape and more with a panel of experts. nicole is here, the author of "messengers of the right." david is here and eugene daniels is here, white house reporter and coauthor of "play book."
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nicole, what do you think of this change. others hosting the 7:00 p.m. hour from now on. >> i think it is a pretty clear sign that fox news sees newsmax as its big problem right now. their 7:00 p.m. hour has been drawing a lot of viewers. so they want to do is compete more in that opinion space. i suspect what we will see going forward is less of the kind of chris wallace fox news and more of that opinion hour and more of a newsmax turn for fox. >> yeah. that's what the tea leaves sure indicate. let's look at your recent story for npr titled after the deadly capitol riot fox news stayed silent on its star's incendiary riot. what do you mean? >> you have seen a discussion first out in corporate board rooms pulling back on donations from politicians who wanted to invalidate the election in
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november. you have seen that with the republican party. you have seen it on social media platforms that yanked accounts from people pop pull gaiting the big lie about the election and that helped to foster the circumstances of the protests that turned so deadly january 6th. where you haven't seen it fox news and particularly through the guests it selects as amplified and promoted to both claim that this election was fraudulently stolen from president trump and his supporters and also urge them with a battle cry rhetoric talk of betrayal that helped to incite the kinds of emotions we saw swirl and coaless in the capitol on wednesday. you haven't seen that acknowledged on fox news at all. >> james murdoch is the son of rue pert. he had a message i think for his dad.
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he said those outlets that unleashed insidious and uncontrollable forces that will be with us for years. i hope those people now understand and that they stop. you wrote a book about the murdochs, david. this is a message from son to father. >> i think from son to father. i think from brother to brother. and fox news itself to a significant degree. and they haven't really created parameters or guide rails of what's acceptable too often. they haven't done it in this moment of national crisis and this moment of crisis for fox news. does the word news deserve to be appended? and james is also offering in some ways to the public a view of what a murdoch future could look like. it is not clear the hunger games are entirely done for what happens when murdoch
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relinquishes control. and while murdoch is the presumed heir apparent, he has the same number of votes and it will be a little bit of an open question. >> and fox news's name makes less and less sense the more they diminish the news coverage at the network. talk about the appetite for real news coverage. that explains the high ratings for cnn, huge web traffic all across the board. you will be running the new "politico" play book. how are you thinking about the american appetite for news. what do people want right now from political reporters? >> it is going to be a completely different play book. people want a more wholistic look at what is going on in washington, d.c. and therefore what is going on in the country the way we're looking at it is they want to hear from different people. they want to not just hear from
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the people holding the power but from the people that are trying to get power. and that power struggle and that friction is going to dictate how these next four years for joe bidened and kamala harris go because that will be so important as we watch and see what's happening. that's going on on the left and the right. that's one of the big reasons we're doing a lot of different things on play book. >> all right. everyone, please stay with me. i have some news to break after the commercial break about the biden administration's first press briefing. what to expect from the press shop. stay with me. we'll have that in a moment. . so we built an education just as smart. so smart it can work at my speed? yep. with flexpath, you can finish your bachelors degree on your terms and budget. capella university. don't just learn. learn smarter.
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. we're back on "reliable sources." looking ahead to wednesday and the inauguration. i can now report the first press briefing of the new administration. incoming press secretary jen
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psaki saying the white house will reinstate visitor logs and daily on camera press briefings. this will happen on wednesday according to the biden transition team. it's a reminder that everything this incoming white house is going to do is a contrast to the current white house. in the case of the press secretary, life-filled briefings and very few press briefings from the trump white house. let me bring back the panel. eugene, what are you expecting from the biden press shop and what are you noticing so far? >> so far we're seeing and expecting more of a more kind of normal interaction with the press. we're not being called the enemy of the people by anyone who works for president-elect joe biden or vice president-elect kamala harris. one thing i'm thinking about, we're going to have to be more
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creative in covering this white house. >> you mean we're not going to have a live twitter feed of what he's thinking about in all hours? >> absolutely. he's not going to be tweeting and firing people from that. we're going to have to be more creative. even now, asking questions, they're running a tighter ship than the trump administration to say the least. >> david, what are you anticipating from jen psaki and the other staff? we'll put on screen some of the faces that viewers will come to see in the coming weeks. is this going to be a reset? >> i think it's the effort to be a reset. i don't think it magically makes disappear what's happened over the last four or five years in terms of the way the white house dealt with the press. i think biden is known in the senate as sort of gaffomatic. this campaign and his campaign was quite disciplined as well, professional, competent. they were able to get their
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message across and yet not have too many distractions. i think they're going to have to show through a lot of efforts like the visitor log reinstallation, interested in transparency for the greater good even if it's uncomfortable for them because it will invite greater scrutiny. >> yes, it will. nicole, last word from you? >> the biden administration is going to have to do more than a return to normal. they'll have to rebuild norms. the press has a way of turning the briefing room into a place of information from the public. >> that's right. it's going to take a long time. but at least enemy of the people won't be a constant attack line. at least this hate movement won't be coming from the white house. eugene, david, nicole, thank you. as i mentioned, we'll see a lot of joe biden and vice president kamala harris. tonight abby phillip has this special report at 10:00 p.m.
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a sit-down with kamala and her husband. that's making history at 10:00 p.m. we'll take a quick break and come back with really remarkable thoughts from cnn's sara sidner about covering these twin crises, covid and now possible terror. we'll be right back. at my speed? smart itk yep. with flexpath, you can finish your bachelors degree on your terms and budget. capella university. don't just learn. learn smarter. use a single hr software? nope. we use 11. eleven. why do an expense report from your phone when you can do it from a machine that jams? i just emailed my wife's social security number to the entire company instead of hr, so... please come back. how hard is your business software working for you? with paycom, employees enter and manage their own hr data in one easy-to-use software. visit for a free demo.
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in about a minute. get started today. by inauguration day, america is likely to have endured 400,000-plus deaths from covid-19. the death toll is a daily reminder of the country's failure to contain this virus. all that bubbled up when sara
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sidner's rage turned to tears on live tv. she was there covering the crisis in the hospitals in california. now she's in michigan covering extremism, another american infliction. sarah, how do you juggle these american crises simultaneously? >> reporter: you do it because this is the work we do. these are stories, american stories, important to all the citizens in this country including those who have extreme views. we need to be able to hear from the american people no matter which side of the aisle they're on or what their beliefs are. i think it's important that the entire country know what's going on in this country, not just in their bubbles, brian. >> that is absolutely true. we have to tell their stories and let people know what's actually happening in the country. these are not, in some cases, fringe views even though we're dealing with big lies that are dealing with violence in some cases. how do you handle the emotions of it all? >> clearly i didn't feel i
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handled it well when it came to coronavirus. i want to give you an example. this gentleman here right behind me, he's being interviewed right now by another network. you see him there, standing there with an ar-15. he is a member or was a member of the national guard and he says he's libertarian but says he's a boogaloo boy. he says i am here because i feel like they're putting laws in place that are against the constitution. i want to stand here and protest that. he says he's peaceful. we also know the boogaloo boy, some have been quite violent and with violent rhetoric. he's an american and has an opinion. sometimes we need to listen to what people are saying, brian. >> absolutely. sarah, thank you very much. to hear more from sidder in turn to reliable sources podcast wherever you listen to your podcasts. 72 hours until the end of the trump presidency.
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the truth finally cat up to donald trump after years of giving chase. the lies were finally too much. the past four years have proved that the american press is stronger than any demagogue. the past four years have also proved how many people can be swayed by a man calling real news fake over and over again. shared reality. it's gone. can it be restored? can it will rebuilt? those are the questions wie wil start to ask this time next year. thanks for joining us. a new chapter, joe biden's presidency set to begin behind a wall and thousands of troops with maga terror chatter. off the charts. >> i'm not afraid taking the oath outside. >> how safe will inauguration be? incoming white house chief of staff ron klain is here exclusively.


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