tv Coronavirus Facts and Fears A CNN Global Town Hall CNN March 5, 2020 7:00pm-9:00pm PST
all right, thank you for watching me. up next we've got anderson cooper and dr. sanjay gupta. they have such an important town hall for us all. "coronavirus facts and fears." please tune in right now. ♪ ♪ >> hello and welcome to the cnn global town hall. i'm anderson cooper. >> and i'm dr. sanjay gupta. thanks for joining us at home and everyone in the studio tonight. >> we're here tonight because we believe the best way to fight fear is with facts, not hype, not hope, not hunches, facts. there is right now a lot we know about this virus and a lot we don't yet know and it is important to address what we don't know as it is to illuminate what we do. tonight we're going to bring you the latest from our cnn correspondents around the world
in countries where the impact of the virus is more clear than it is here right now. we'll be talking to experts in the field, medical professionals, scientists and care givers who are on the front lines. we'll talk to people who are patients infected with the virus tonight. a member of the president's coronavirus task force dr. anthony fauci joins us. we'll take questions in the studio and social media and video. there are thousands of questions we received just in the last few days. first, though, how we got here. >> health officials in china are trying to identify mysterious strain of pneumonia. >> this mysterious new cluster of pneumonia cases is raising deep concerns here and across the region. >> december 31st, chinese authorities informed the world health organization of an unusual illness in wuhan, china. officials believe the virus was transmitted to humans from animals.
>> in the two months since it was first reported, the novel coronavirus has spread to at least 76 countries, more than 90,000 confirmed cases so far, and more than 3,000 deaths. >> the trajectory of what we're looking at over the weeks and months ahead is very uncertain. we do expect more cases, and this is a good time to prepare. >> this is a fast-moving event, a fast-moving story and there is a lot of fear out there about everyday things including gatherings like this one. at that point we asked everyone here if they traveled recently to any of the hot spots just to be safe. the people gathered here told us they had not. that is certainly a good place to start. sanjay, let's talk about what we know and what we don't know. >> we learned a new or novel virus in china is spreading quickly around the world. we know it's a virus we've all certainly heard about, but just a few months ago had never been diagnosed in a human being. we know the reportered numbers.
nearly 100,000 people infected, 3,000 have died. we're going to talk about those numbers, they're really still just best estimates. we know the virus is spread through coughs and sneezes and droplets just like the flu, but it doesn't linger in the air like measles or small pox. we don't know for sure how long it lives on surfaces and we don't know why it appears that children don't seem to be hit as hard as adults. nor are we fully certain that if you catch it once, you can't catch it again. and we don't know for certain when this might end. big question. so much of this is a mystery still, and i realize -- we realize that can be a bit unsettling for people. so we want to make it clear as anderson did that tonight we're going to be honest with you. sometimes a void of information can be filled with bad information. so we're also going to clear up misconceptions. and i hope the knowledge that you get tonight will help relieve some of your fears and some of your anxiety. anderson, i think we also need to know and be prepared for what comes next so, we're going to spend the next two hours answering your questions and provide the perspective that
everyone needs. >> we've been talking a bit already about washington state and the epicenter of the outbreak is in kirkland, washington. we want to go to gary tuckman where it is linked to 12 fatalities so far. the governor and mike pence spoke earlier. what's the latest, gary? >> reporter: we need to mention there has not been widespread transmission here in washington state. but that being said, this nightmare scenario taking place at this small nursing home northeast of seattle does not bode well. 12 people are known to have died from coronavirus around the united states so as far. seven of those people lived inside this nursing center, the life care center, in kirkland, washington. that means more than 50% of the people we know died from coronavirus lived here. we don't know how the virus got inside this building. we do know that other people who live here, other people who work here, and other people who visit
here are also sick and they are delg wi dealing with that right now. what is disturbing according to family members we talked to today who have loved ones inside this building who are asymptomatic, no testing has been done for those people yet. despite all the talk of testing, these loved ones want their relatives to be tested. if they're not sick, they want to get them the heck out of here. if they are sick they realize they need to stay. they don't want to take a person who is infected and infect their loved ones and infect the public. these people are are upset, not with 9 people who work here, but their state government leaders and government leaders in washington, d.c. anderson? >> gary, this is sanjay. i have one more question for you. there's o there's another cruise ship off the coast of san francisco. they are airlifting tests to that cruise ship. what have you learned about that? >> reporter: yes, san yjay. we have people driving by yelling at us now. let me apologize for that because this is important. please, sir, quiet down if you
don't mind. thank you. there was a man, 11 people have died here in the state of washington. one person in the state of california. that person was on the grand princess cruise ship on the cruise from san francisco to mexico. that cruise ship came back to san francisco. he died north of sacramento. it continued from san francisco to hawaii. was coming back. the governor of california made a decision, it has been found out at least 35 people on the ish have flu-like symptoms. he said those people need to be tested before the ship is allowed to come back to san francisco. today a helicopter dropped testing supplies on the ship. people were tested. we'll get the results tomorrow. the decision will be made what to do with the cruise ship. it's one of the largest cruise ships in the world. 2400 passengers, 1100 crew members aboard. decision will be made tomorrow what to do with the cruise ship and the people aboard. >> gary, quickly, why haven't the folks there been tested? >> reporter: that is the $64,000 question right now, anderson. these family members we talked to today were so upset and they
don't know the answer. they're not being told by any government leaders what to do, how to handle this. they're trying to be responsible. they don't want their loved ones to stay instaten island heide h sick. if they are sick they can infect los gatos of people but they're not being given advice what to do. they can take their loved ones out of here, but right now they're not because they don't know if their asymptomatic relatives are okay to i can that out. >> gary, thank you very much. i want to go to china where there are 80,000 cases of coronavirus and 3,042 deaths. thus farrow fishlz ha officials drastic measures. david culver, the day we hear cases in china are declining then we hear they are increasing. to your knowledge, what is the status of the spread of the virus there in, particularly in shanghai? how are things right now? >> reporter: you're right, anderson. we've seen these fluctuations going up and down.
it is important to distinguish where we are in shanghai versus the epicenter of all of this. that is hubei province, its capital the city of wuhan. it seems in shanghai things are under control. you look at the numbers in hubei it's rather intense. tens of thousands of people have been impacted by this and thousands have died. the concern going forward is the extreme containment effort and its effectiveness. as of now the world health organization has said china's containment of hubei province as a whole -- you're talking about lock deio lockdowns within and out that of province, they say it's rather effective and it's extreme. we talked to folks an hour or so ago. i was on the phone with one resident checking in. they cannot leave their homes. they're sealed within their residential complexes. basic necessities come to them. outside of that in hang high a lot more flexibility and freedom to move around. as far as how it's being handled from the government's level, we know that they are continuing to
increase hospital capacity and that's interesting because we've heard them say that more people are leaving the hospital versus going in, yet they don't want to get complacent, anderson and sanjay. the worst thinking is we've got this beat. >> david, you've been there since the beginning. this is sanjay. you've been there since the beginning and you evacuated from wuhan. a lot we know is based on data out of china. one of the big questions in the medical community is how trustworthy is that data. do you have any sense that of? >> reporter: no question, sanjay. we've been asking that question, too. i listened to what gary was expressing as far as the frustrations towards the state and federal leaders there in washington, and we saw that weeks ago here. i mean, it's echoing exactly what we were putting to some of the officials and we were hearing on the ground from folks who said, we know we might have it because our loved ones have been confirmed. we're experience being the same symptoms, yet testing has been delayed. it's not coming through. we also know that some of our loved ones have passed away and
the doctors were pulling people aside and saying, it is, in fact, that pneumonia. however, they were never confirmed. what does that tell us? it wasn't going towards the total count. now, since we can say that the federal government here, the central government under president xi jinping, they have moved forward with getting a lot of those test kits to where they need to be and it seems as though they are coming to a place where they are being readily available. at least according to some of the folks we're talking to on the ground within wuhan and hubei province as a whole, anderson and sanjay. >> david culver, thank you very much. as the coronavirus has been spreading trade shows are closing, the louvre is reopened with new precautions. italy hard hit with nearly 4,000 case ands at least 148 people have died there. for more on all that of we're joined now by cnn'sli anchor christian amanpour. >> as you articulated,
uncertainty is the worst thing. here they were talking about containment. now the chief medical officer says they are moving into the so-called second phase, which is control. and then there is research and mitigate. but that's what's happening right now. the british national health service is one of the most known in the world. the officials here say that the national health service, you know, will be able to cope, but there is a naggtional shortage nurses. as david has said and gary said, testing kits are in short supply, not only here but around the world. that's what 's been happening. there hasn't been school closings like in italy. there's been one death and several dozen confirmed cases of infection. there is a sense that they might have to go into methods such as controlling how people work, keep them at home more. and it's called social mitigation. so also as you were talking about how do people deal with each other, social distancing,
for instance. there is a huge amount of talk about should people shake hands, should they hug, kiss, what we are being told, it may sound basic, but you've been talking about it. it's absolutely the case. the main advice that people here are being given is wash your hands and wash them over and over again. and if you use sanitizer, use something that's at least 60% alcohol contained. and that's another issue because those are rushing off the shelves and there is a lot of shortages in these things. but this is what we're seeing over here. we've had cases of deaths in france. and all these governments are trying to figure out, because they do have centralized public health systems and hospital infrastructure. so they're trying to figure out how to now control because contain is somewhat -- somewhat sort of past -- that horse has bolted, so to speak. >> and cristian, it's sanjay. people may know this, but after
china and south korea, italy now has the largest outbreak in the world. and as you mentioned, schools and colleges shutdown i think until the end of march or at least mid-march. is that affecting the rest of europe? i mean, given the proximity of all these places. >> to be frank, yes. because, again, uncertainty is the worst, worst thing. and this is what this is all about, uncertainty. and the worst is that one gets different views and different sort of expert opinions and so that's creating more uncertainty. but for sure, i mean just from closing schools in italy to closing big sporting events, here they are even deciding here in england whether they'll close sporting events. already premier league teams are told they can't even shake hands when they get out onto the field. but, you know, travel from italy is also a big worry in countries like great britain here and elsewhere. people are quite worried about travelers who come from italy because the cases that have been confirmed in many instances are because of contact with people
who have come from italy. and even here in britain, i mean, in london, not far from where i'm sitting, there's been one case according to the police, of a hate crime, a race-based attack on a person here on a commercial street in central london because they were asian. and this is, you know, this is another sort of worry. it's not widespread, but it's a worry as well. >> yeah. >> italy is very bad. of course, as you know, outside of europe iran is the biggest problem. >> yeah, christiane, thank you very much. the biggest outbreak of china, the biggest testing, ivan watson is in seoul. ivan, what's the situation like in seoul? how many cases are there now? >> reporter: well, the infection, the confirmed number of infections, anderson, has crossed the 6200 mark with at least 42 people who have died as a result of the disease.
more than 70% of the infections have originated around the southern korean city of degu. that's where the cluster of the infections are, related to the religious organization holding prayer services there. it's also around that city that a 23-year-old u.s. soldier and his wife and child were also infected. and this has security implications because not only the u.s. military, but certainly the south korean military has had dozens of infections across all four branches of the military. and that has forced the u.s./south korean military alliance to postpone their joint military operations exercises indefinitely. i want to highlight another statistic. you mentioned this. this is the aggressive testing for the coronavirus here in south korea. more than 150,000 tests conducted since the virus first appeared here, and the authorities are working so hard
to expedite this. there are even drive-thru testing facilities to speed up the process and to limit the exposure of doctors and nurses to potential carriers. anderson, sanjay? >> something we haven't seen here in this country. ivan watson. >> 150,000 in south korea. do we know how many have been tested here? >> 1500. >> 1500 in the united states. >> yeah. >> wow. >> a magnitude of difference. we're going to go to japan next where the world's attention has been focused for sometime. was focused on the quarantined diamond princess cruise ship. in a few months now, the summer olympics are scheduled to begin. there are just over a thousand cases in japan with at least 12 deaths and cnn's will ripley is in tokyo for us. will? >> what's the latest, will? >> reporter: so, this has not been a great week for organizers of tokyo 2020 and the enter nationality olympic committee because japan saw the case numbers rise over a thousand. you have infectious disease experts the number could be ten
times the official report because of the fact this country's testing so few people. you have olympics organizers saying they're still going to deliver the games at the end of july. a growing number of people questioning whether it's going to be safe to do that given you have people from 200 plus countries scheduled to come from all over the world, living in close quarters then going back to their countries. the concern is if this outbreak continues to intensify, if it becomes a pandemic by summer will they be able to hold the games. there isn't an answer to that question. a will ripley. thank you very much. we'll be back with dr. anthony fauci, taking questions, we'll talk to someone who has the virus about his condition, about what it feels like. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪
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so, we gave you a look around the world what the situation is. tonight a lot of people airing their concerns online about the coronavirus and they say they are or are not getting from government officials, from television or social media. wall is filled with the sorts of questions you'll be hearing later in this town hall from people looking for answers how they should respond in any given situation. should they shake hands, should they go to large meetings. last week the administration
created the coronavirus task force including officials. dr. fauci is the head of the institute of allergy and infectious diseases. he's advised six presidents on health and global issues. dr. fauci, thank you for being with us. you're clearly having very busy days these days. what tonight is the one thing you want to tell americans about this virus? >> well, the issue is that something we need to take seriously, but we should not be panicking about it. if you look at the united states as a whole and look at the difference between what the risk of getting infected is and if a person gets infected like what we're seeing in washington state around seattle, the two different issues, the risk of getting infected as taking the nation as a whole is low. %-p have some community spread,
so that's really to try to get a broader understanding of where we are right now with this outbreak. >> just to be clear, those people who are young and healthy who may get it and will be okay, it will be i guess like a bad flu or something for them. they can still pass it on to other people, though. that's because they're healthy doesn't mean they should go to work, things like that. >> oh, absolutely, anderson. that's very important. i mean, people who are infected will pass it on to other people, and that's the makings of an outbreak. i'm just talking about in general the risk of infection versus when you are infected, the risk of something going bad for you. >> right. >> dr. fauci, it's sanjay. you know, we've heard from the vice-president recently that we want to make sure people who want to get tested can get tested. people who have concerns can get tested. at the same time, we hear that there are not enough tests to go around. what are we supposed to take away from that? >> you know, sanjay, you're
right. it got off to a slow start. there were some missteps with regard to the cdc's test. they had a problem. they fixed the problem. now by the end of the week they should be able to get out about 75,000 tests. they have now partnered with the private sector so that everything doesn't have to come from the cdc, which generally makes tests for the public health segment. when you get the commercial segment that can then make millions, millions of tesz, wts what you're going to see in the reasonable future is a dramatic escalation in the number of tests that are going to be available. but you're absolutely right. up to this point there has been a lag in the ability to get tested. >> let me just follow-up on that. in terms of the -- you said by the end the week. do you mean like tomorrow or do you mean sunday? and how many tests you say will be out there available by then? >> well, what they are telling us, what the cdc and the fda is
saying, that by the end of the week, the beginning of next week, they should be able to get 75,000 tests out there. and by the following week, they could get up to a million tests out there. that's the plan. that's what we're hearing. >> i don't want to belabor this. you've answered this a lot. how many tests are we going to need, dr. fauci? you've heard from south korea over 100,000 tests have been performed. how do we really get an idea how this is happening in the states, how widespread this is? >> you know, sanjay, you and i have discussed this in the past. i've been an advocate of much more proactive testing. not only testing when physicians ask for a test, but test to determine where we are and what levels under the radar. for that reason we're going to need millions and millions and millions of tests. that's what i feel and that's what many of my colleagues feel. >> dr. fauci, we have a question
for you from wuhan, china, where an american, his name is doug perez, he's living, he's working, he's a school teacher. doug is joining us now. doug, i know your question is about u.s. travel restrictions from mainland china. i want to inform our viewers that currently u.s. citizens who are in wuhan, china, and can return to america have to enter through a specific airports and be under mandatory quarantine for 14 days. for all nationals, they are currently banned from entering the u.s. if they were in china in the last 14 days. so wuhan, the chinese government has actually locked down the city where you are so you cannot even get out of wuhan. doug, what's your question for dr. fauci? >> well, like you said, my question is especially important to many americans and other nationalities who are currently living in china. with new cases on the decline in china, while community spread propagates most new cases in the usa, does the trump administration have a time line for lifting travel restrictions on china?
>> you know, i can't answer that question. there is no decision now about when that will occur. that's something that is evaluated, really quite frequently when the task force meet. we look at what the situation is on the outside regarding the imposition of and removal of travel restrictions. but the last time this was discussed, there was not any decision about removing it, but leaving it the way it is right now. >> dr. fauci, i want to talk about the mortality rates for a second and keeping it mind these numbers do change. but there does appear to be a pretty significant discrepancy between what the world health organization is saying and what we're hearing from the administration. do we have a sense of what the mortality rates really are? are they going to change? and why this discrepancy? >> sure. so, sanjay, what it is, when you look at the w.h.o. numbers, it's a purely arithmetic calculation.
you look at the number of deaths as the numerator and the denominator as of number of infections. when you do the math, you click on a coronavirus tracker, those numbers come up, as you say. if you do that simple mathematical formula, what you have is a 2 to 3% mortality. however, when you do modelling, namely you figure out what the likelihood there is and to what extent you have asymptomatic infection, if there is a certain degree of asymptomatic infection and the assumptions in the model, then the denominator becomes much bigger. so what you're hearing is something that obviously is understandably confusing. the strict arithmetic determination and the model of what the range would be -- and the range is lower than that. how much lower, it's uncertain, but it's clearly lower than that. that's the model. but the actual calculation is 2 to 3%.
>> so, dr. fauci, i'm terrible at math, never good at it. that's why i'm in tv. until we -- until there is more widespread testing in the united states, we won't know how many people in the u.s. actually may have the virus, and that will affect what the fatality rate is, correct? >> absolutely. and the assumption is, anderson, that there is a segment of the group -- we don't know how large it is -- who are without symptoms and are not getting counted in the calculation. and that's why the point you make is very valid. until we have a much more accurate determination of who is infected, including those who are asymptomatic, we will not get a more accurate determination of what the case fatality rate is. your point is very well taken. >> dr. fauci, i want to introduce a molecular parasiteologist -- >> virologist, too.
>> you're in professional health at nyu. >> correct. >> what's your question? >> assuming we have enough kits, why aren't we testing everyone and how do we determine who we will test? >> yeah, what i just said what will be available. today this evening, we don't have enough to do what we want to do. in the next week to two, it will rev up so that we will. and the first thing you want to do is you want to make it available to people who are trying to make a diagnosis on someone who comes in with symptoms to determine if, in fact, they do have coronavirus. but in addition to that, they should be the kind of sentinel screening to get to the answer that anderson just asked the question about. >> dr. fauci, before we let you go, i want to ask a simple question. for someone out there tonight who's got a cough, maybe they have a little fever, they haven't been to wuhan, they've just been living their life and they're freaked out, what should they do? because obviously you don't want
everybody who has the flu or cough to go into an emergency room demanding a test that is not available. >> exactly. >> so what do they do? >> yeah, you know, i think they should just go home and hunker down and recover at home. the chances are overwhelmingly likely that they have either influenza -- i hope they got their flu shot which will make it less likely to have influenza. but the overwhelming likelihood is it is not coronavirus. what they should do is just go home, hunker down, and recover. that's what you should do right now. again, because the risk across the country of infection is quite low. if you're in an area where there is community spread, as i said in seattle, that elevates it a bit. >> dr. fauci, thank you so much. i want to emphasize what dr. fauci said about the flu. and you and i, sanjay, have talked about this before. it's amazing to me all the people freaked out about coronavirus, as many as half of americans do not actually get a
flu vaccine. >> only 45%. >> right. if you're freaked out about the coronavirus, you can't really do anything about it now, but you can do something about the flu if you haven't gotten a flu shot, you should get one. >> that way you can distinguish 9 two. >> dr. fauci, thank you. i want to bring in ron klein, thes simonsen coordinator under obama. thank you for being with us. appreciate it. also dr. craig spencer. nice to see you, welcome. who contracted ebola in 2014 after treating patients in west africa. he's now the director of global health and emergency medicine at the columbia university medical center. thanks, guys, so much for being with us. >> thanks for having us. >> first of all, ron, i wonder what you made of what you heard from dr. fauci. what do you want americans to know right now who are worried about this? >> look, dr. fauci is a national treasure. he's advised six presidents as you said. i wish his advice was getting more purchase and more power in the administration. there is no excuse why we're in this testing mess. we knew in december this disease would come here. we had time to get ramped up.
just this week the administration told us there would be a million tests by tomorrow. now dr. fauci says that number will be 75,000. maybe next week there will be a million tests. dr. fauci also told us we're going to need actually millions of tests. so we're far behind where we should be. we're far behind where korea is. we're far behind singapore, other countries are. that's a hard question. >> i have a couple more questions about that, but dr. spencer, let me ask you. you were the first person in new york to be -- to actually contract the ebola virus. how are you doing? >> i feel great. >> are you -- >> totally better. >> that's great to hear. >> thanks for asking. >> when you look at the response back then, 2014, how do you compare it to what's happening now? >> yeah, i think that's a great question. you know, in 2014 after i survived ebola, i went back to guinea to work as an epidemiologist to understand more about the disease. i ended up writing a piece really expressing my concern about how the political response had really taken priority over
the public health response. and i think it's incredibly important right now. people need clear concise evidence-based messaging. they need to understand when testing is happening, who can get tested, what is their risk. and right now i think people have this disconnect between what they're hearing from public health authorities and what they're hearing by tweet. i think it's causing a lot of confusion, a lot of fear, a lot of hysteria, which is reminiscent of what we saw in 2014 and 2015. >> is there something you recommend that be done differently? >> i think my big message is proactive preparedness should take precedence over this reactive catch-up every single time. as ron pointed out, we knew months ago there was twa proble likely going to come here and spread. we've torn apart the -- we've ended great pandemic preparedness programs like predict to help us find diseases in places where these viruses
are more likely to come and spread from. and i think that we just haven't taken the right time. we haven't taken the right preparation. we need to be as serious about preparation and preparedness as we are about response. >> ron, just in the last -- to the idea of kind of getting the right information out there, the president has, you know, reluctant to say this, but contributed to the problem by just kind of speaking off the cuff about this. he's got great people like dr. fauci on who are giving facts. he has sort of indicated at one point in the last couple days like a miracle this could just dissipate and disappear. he said they had 15 cases and they are all getting better. that might be the end of it. that was a couple days ago. obviously that didn't turnout to be the case. and he's even said, you know, he said last night on fox that there's people who are going to work and they get better and they're able to continue working. obviously you don't want to encourage anyone to go to work because even if they're feeling okay, they might infect other people. what kind of damage is this doing? >> you know, anderson, it's
doing the worst kind of damage. when we talked a minute ago about the crisis of the confidence we're having, the failure of the response, there is a crisis of confidence. people can't believe what they're hearing from the president and that's really corrosive at a time of something like this. look, actually i think ironically it's not helping the president's own goal. even if you believe the president's goal is to try to calm people down, boost the markets, keep the economy going, all this misinformation actually just making people more anxious, more uncertain, more unsteady. and so i think the best thing the president can do is communicate less. let people like dr. fauci and the people at cdc do the communicating. they're the experts. when the president tries to tell people it's all going to be fine, it's a miracle, it will go away, that makes people more nervous, not reassured. >> why wouldn't the patients in that nursing home in washington be tested already? do you know? >> no. >> is there any scientific reason why that would be -- >> i think what we really want to do, as dr. fauci was splang, we want to expand that
denominator. we want to know in new york city there are multiple cases with unlinked chains of transmission. we don't know how they were infected. >> we know that, that's already happened? >> yeah. we know there's transmission occurring in the community. and that's concerning from a disease detective standpoint because if we can't link everything back to one source or a couple different sources, we know that it's happening in different places, and that just increases the risk. >> some of the modelling issue, anderson, in that community there could be 1500 even based on looking at the gentlemome of virus circulating six weeks. let me ask you a follow-up question to what anderson was asking you. i looked at the modelling in this country, the overall pandemic flu response. let me put up these numbers. in a moderate scenario, what they say is a million hospitalizations, 200,000 people would need to be in the intensive care unit, and 64,000 people would need breathing machines. we don't have all that. we have maybe just barely that.
and many of those ventilateers and breathing machines are currently being used. what are we going to do if that many people actually need care like that? >> sanjay, it's a great question. it's a second area where the response has been laggered. testing is one area. getting our health care system ready for the influx of cases is something we should be doing now. we saw in china they built temporary hospitals. they flexed up their capacity. this is a point we all need to think about. it's not just the people who get coronavirus are going to be affected by this. if hospital emergency rooms are overwhelmed, if doctors and nurses treating those people get sick and staffing drops at our hospitals, if we don't have enough beds, people with other illnesses won't be able to get into the hospital and get treatment. >> right. >> people with routine medical conditions won't be able to get treatment. the possible impact on our health care system is something we should be using this time, as cases ramp up to get ready for. that's a big deficiency. >> do you think it's possible this will dissipate in april
like the person indicated early on? i'm not bashing the president. in warmer weather it doesn't do well and becomes seasonal. that going to happen here? >> dr. fauci said there are a lot of unknowns. you can't run government policy on hopes and wishes. what the public deserves is a health care system and a government that's powering that system that's preparing, maybe not for the worst case scenario but the medium case scenario dr. gupta just outlined. it's the responsible thing to be ready for. if it surprises on the up side, we're all better off and we can focus on craig's point which is preparing for the long run. whatever happens with this one, this isn't the last time we're going to do this. you guys will be doing this two years or three years from now when we have the next one. we shouldn't be patching up then. we should be ahead of the game. investments in responding to this are preparedness also for the next time we go through this. >> ron klein, craig spencer, thank you very much. up next we'll talk via skype to a man who has coronavirus being treated in the country's own federal quarantine unit. we'll be right back.
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medical center. he joins us from omaha and the specialist who supervises the doctors treating all coronavirus patients at the medical center. mr. goldman, we should point out, is joining us via skype. first of all, carl, thank you so much for joining us. how are you feeling? >> i'm feeling great. i still have a little cough, but other than my first day when i got here to omaha with a high fever, i've been feeling fine. this has been like a minor, minor cold for me. my wife and i had boarded the diamond princess on a cruise to japan on january 17th. i think the biggest -- was march. she's home now because she never got the virus and here i sit in wonderful omaha where the folks have been just fabulous. >> let me just ask, because everyone probably wants to know this. what does it feel like to have the coronavirus? i know you said you're feeling great now. what was the first symptom? what was the worst, you know, what does it compare to exactly?
>> yeah, the common denominator seems to be a spiked very high fever in a quick amount of time. we had been sent back from the diamond princess over to the states on a 747 cargo plane. when i got on the plane, i fell asleep. i was still feeling fine when we got on the plane. fell asleep next to my wife. two hours later i woke up and i had a high fever, 103 plus. my wife looked at me and said, you're flush. i think you've got it. i went back to the doctor on board the plane. he tested me and saw that i did have the fever. was put in a quarantine area. flown here to omaha, and put in the biocontainment center where i was, again, tested for the actual virus. and it came out positive. but it felt less than a common cold. i didn't have a stuffy nose. didn't have a sore throat. the fever was high, but no body aches, no chills, no sweating
that usually comes with 103 fever. >> yeah. >> and after about eight or nine hours, the fever was gone. >> and, doctor, it's sanjay gupta. i met you at the university of nebraska, you were taking care of ebola patients back six years ago. can you give us a sense of how the patients are doing over there in nebraska? how -- we hear from carl, but how sick have some of these patients become? >> well, we're very pleased to serve as a national resource in a time of need. much of the experience is exactly as was just related. this is a virus that causes -- can cause serious illness, but in most people it's relatively mild. fevers, cough, and then unfortunately if it progresses to worsening lower respiratory tract infection, pneumonia and in its worst instances, death. that seems to be more prevalent in older folks and those weith
underlying diseases. again, the majority of folks do tend to do fine and we're very pleased that with these 15 people that we've taken care of recently, that actually we've had seven of them restored to health and have been released home. we still have eight of them here in either our quarantine unit or in the biocontainment unit. >> you know, doctor, there have been these interesting trials out of china where they have tens of thousands of patients looking at different therapeutics. everyone is focused on the vaccine. but the idea of looking at antivirals that might be beneficial, that's obviously a big deal as well. that could really be helpful here. they are conducting trials in nebraska as well. have you learned anything? is there something that you think it looks -- >> well, it's too early to say, but we're very pleased with the fact that we brought this trial on extremely quickly along with our colleagues at the n.i.h. and the leader here at the university of nebraska is dr. andrej kaleel running the
trial. it shows great promise. this was a drug that was developed and tested initially against ebola virus. it was found to not be effective against ebola but did seem to work so it really does seem to show some promise now with the treatment of covid-19. so we're very hopeful but it's too early to say anything. >> i understand you've been receiving threats. one wants to think that everybody is sympathetic and, you know, understanding you've done nothing wrong in all of this. what kind of threats have you been receiving? >> it's run the gamut, it's unfortunate. we own the local radio station there and 95% of the people are wonderful but a number of them don't want to be near her. she's decided to lay low. she is going to work every day, and then just going home, staying out of the public. but it's -- it has not been a
pretty sight. people -- there's some people out there that didn't want us to come home from japan and i think since they've felt that we were going to spread the virus throughout the united states. the folks here at home have been fantastic. and boy, if we could be treated anywhere in the world this is the place to be and in terms of being safe and contained, this is the spot. >> doctor, you know, we've already been getting some emails from people saying, well, look, if this is something that, you know, even if it gets big and for most people it will not be a big deal, the fatality rates will be in the low whatever they end up being. why is this such a concern? i mean, is too much being made about this if it's something in the category of a bad flu or even a not so bad flu? >> well, you know, i think that
there's a number of ways that this can be looked at. i do agree we need to take a collective deep breath and realize this is not some existential threat against mankind. a quarter to a third of us are not going to die in the next year. like in the middle ages. having said that, this is a very serious event. we need to take it seriously and do everything we can to blunt the spread of this pandemic. so, you know, this is a virus that appears to spread a lot like the flu, and so it is spread by droplets, people coughing and sneading and touching objects and then -- it has serious ramifications, even if the death rate is within 1%. millions and potential of infections, resulting in hundreds of thousands of deaths. this is something we do need to be taking seriously, we do need to be preparing for it and doing
everything that we can until we develop a savaccine or medicatis to blunt the effects of this. >> doctor, thank you for what you're doing and your whole team there. it's an incredible work that you do in this and always. thank you so much, and carl, we hope you feel better soon and we hope you get out there and rejoin your wife. >> thank you so much. >> take care. from geneva switzerland, dr. maria vankerkove, what are you most concerned right now with this virus? for people around the world who are watching. >> thank you for having me. our biggest advice right now is to be ready. we want everyone to know what they can do to protect themselves, to protect their families at an individual level. we're working with governments all over the world to make sure
that they're ready so that they can expect cases and they know what to do when those cases arrive. ' want everyone to feel there's a collective responsibility and that they have some power in this. if everybody is working together they can fight this together. >> that's an important fight. i want to emphasize for our viewers, we can look to doctors and government officials, but it is each of us, individuals all around the world who are literally the front line of this. it's washing your hands, not just for yourself, it's for your fellow family members and fell low citizens. each of us have a responsibility in this. >> that's right. every single person on the planet has a responsibility here. and what we want people to know, as you say, wash your hands. it sounds very simple but it is incredibly important that you do this multiple times per day and you do this right. if you don't have access to that you can use an alcohol gel.
we need to make sure people practice respiratory etiquette. sneeze into your elbow or a tissue, and put it in a bin. people need to know where to get reliable information. they can come not w.h.o. website, the uscdc website. there many good sources of information. this is a situation that's evolving very, very quickly as you've been reporting so we need people to come back and look and see what is latest information is. we're evidence based, so we want to pull together all of the evidence about what we know about this virus and more importantly for the things that we don't know about this virus we're taking steps and working with partners all over the world to help us address those unknowns so come back, educate yourself, know what you can do, how you can protect yourself, how you can protect your family and be ready.
>> doctor, you've also traveled to china recently and it's obviously where this started. i think there's been a little bit of good news, maybe, that the numbers have started to not be increasing as rapidly in china as they had been. is that good news? can we read into that? are there lessons for other places around the world? >> yes, absolutely. there's lessons that we can learn from all countries dealing with this virus. i spent two weeks in china. working with chinese authorities to really understand what is being done there. and not only are we seeing numbers slowing, we're seeing numbers decline. we are seeing countries demonstrate that they can slow this virus down. that they can stop human to human transmission. and that is an incredibly powerful message. we're seeing that these actions that have been taken, these fundamental public health actions, in terms of looking for cases, looking for contacts, social distancing, staying home when you're feeling unwell,
seeking medical care when you need to, those lessons can be applied to all countries. what is really interesting about this virus is that many countries, not just china, but china is the largest example we've seen, that we can slow this down. this is a controllable virus. and that's a really important message. it's not uncontrollable. >> dr. van kerkove, thanks so much and i really appreciate all the work the w.h.o. is doing. we're going to take audience questions, around the country, all over the world. we're carvana, the company who invented
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welcome back to this cnn global town hall. our audience and on social media around the world, we'll spend the bulk of our remaining time taking questions from the audience, audience members and on video. >> and we're also going to take some from social media, a lot of twitter questions, and in addition we have cnn correspondents standing by all over the world. including ben wedeman, in italy, ivan watson in south korea and david culver in china where this
all started. >> joining sanjay and me, is dr. -- yasmin, a disease detective. what are you most closely monitoring right now about this virus? >> there's a lot of talk about the pathogen itself but i study the concurrent spread of rumors and misinformation. really clear, the disease is not the only thing that spreads. you also get rumors and health hoaxes, misinformation and emotional contagion as well. one person gets anxious and panics and you pick up on that and you get panicky. that kind of stuff is -- >> i usually get stared first. >> but that can be really dangerous because that can help the virus itself get a handle. people can stop acting so rationally. start acting from a [ applauseplace of fear. w.h.o. is doing fantastic work
but we do need public health agencies around the world to realize that disease is not the only thing that spreads. misinformation is contagious too. we have to take that seriously. >> let's take some questions from the audience. this is a student at columbia university. what's your question? >> my question is does the coronavirus change or mutate and could it affect a person more than once? >> we've looked into this a bit. it's interesting. first of all, this coronavirus likely jumped from animals to humans. in order for that to do that it mutated at some point. as it spreads through humans it continues to mutate somewhat. we know, for example, this patient in washington, the first patient diagnosed in this country they looked at the g genome and they tried to match it to subs subsequent infections, and there was a lot of similarities, but the virus continues to mutate. we don't know if it mutates into
something that's more problematic or less problematic. >> interesting point, anderson. viruses don't want to kill their hosts. but as a general thing they want to keep their host alive. so oftentimes they'll mutate into something that's less lethal. >> to be clear, if somebody gets sick with a virus, gets over it, is negative, do we know, can they then get it again? are they immune for a couple months or years? is it known? >> this is a little bit of an open question. i did ask dr. fauci this at the white house a few weeks ago. we don't know for sure. the general thing is once you're infected it's like getting vaccinated. this virus, he believes, should behave the same way. there have been some reports around the world where people have become infected more than once but that might just be a testing issue more than the fact the virus has changed so much.
>> this is robert levan jr., an elementary schoolteacher. thanks for being with us. >> good evening. so each evening our custodial staff in my district work diligently to make sure our schools are clean. but as the students run to the classrooms, everything changes. what should teachers be doing daily in their classrooms to protect themselves this their students. >> it doesn't seem to be affecting children as much. le less than 1% in children. watching that space really closely. >> let's be practical. not only for your classroom, but for airplane seats, movie theater seats.
i was at the gym today. what should i be wiping down? should i be in this gym? what do you recommend? >> i try to wipe things down. >> i've never done that before. tray table -- >> i do it and i notice the guy next to me starts doing it as well. >> contagion. >> that's a good contagion. but we've often heard, don't overuse this anti bacterial stuff, you really think it's a good idea? >> the way a lot of people can contract this virus is touching something and then touching their eyes, nose or mouth. tray tables are one of the dirtiest places on the plane. >> the pouch in front where everyone puts their old food -- >> don't put your things in there. >> janae moody is getting a masters in public health at nyu. >> now that the disease is in several countries do you think it is effective to continue
doing travel restrictions? >> let's go to ben wedeman for that. he's in milan, which has created red zones. what does that mean and has it been effective? >> these are so-called containment areas, covers about 11 towns where 50,000 people live and around those so-called red zones, the police, the army, the military police have set up roadblocks where they check everybody going in, and going out, to see if they have picture mission to do so. most of the in habitants of that area simply cannot leave. the whole idea is to prevent the spread of the coronavirus because that's where the outbreak was first concentrated. what we've seen in this part of italy is that despite these containment areas, these red
zones, the virus has spread to other areas, so the government is considering creating new red zones. now, the red zones that were set up are due to, at least in theory, they should come to an end this coming sunday. there's a question of whether they will be extended. and therefore there's a big debate here in italy whether they have been effective at all because the numbers, frankly, continue to rise. when we arrived here ten days ago the number of infected cases was 322. the number now being reported is 3,858. so there's a question of how effective these containment measures are. >> ben wedeman, thanks. let me follow up with sanjay. in china the numbers are dropped so it's an authoritarian regime
and they were able to lock down people and force them to stay in their homes. that's not a situation here we have faced. >> that's part of the issue, if people don't abide by this, and actually are real honest about, you know, biding by the quarantine it may not work as well. and pointing out in this country we really haven't done quarantines for 60 years, just to give you some context of how big a deal this is. what happened with that first plane that came out of wuhan, 195 air passengers, they went to southern california and quarantined for two weeks. that was an unusual event in this country. but as far as the screenings go and all that, it's unclear how much of an impact that's going to make. we don't know. we haven't done this in a long time. tough to say. >> we asked for video questions as well. this is from donna from massachusetts. she sent it in to us. take a look. >> yes, my question is, as a
small animal veterinarian, how stable is the virus outside of the -- for example, could a pet be a vector of transmission by virtue of having been in contact with a symptomatic patient. >> let me translate that. as i understand it, can you infect your pet, can your pet infect you? >> i have a couple thoughts. first of all it's like this came from animals, just most of the pathogens as you mentioned earlier do come from animals. >> hiv came from animals. >> even previous coronaviruss. sars, and then the mares -- >> he's always challenging me. i know he's a doctor, neurosurgeon, you know, i have skills too. >> you do. >> i don't. >> middle east respiratory syndrome came from camels. there evidence this could go the
other way. they were found to have it in their nasal cavity. just because it goes back and forth doesn't mean it makes the other animal sick. >> we'll take a short break. when we come back, chef jose andres. more ahead. dry shampoo leaving residue? not anymore. new fructis invisible dry shampoo. powered by oil-absorbing rice starch. invisible on hair. no residue. just non-stop refreshed hair for 24 hours. new fructis invisible dry shampoo. by garnier, naturally! your cold's gonna make you a zombie tomorrow. wrong. i'm taking a powerful nighttime cold medicine, so i can sleep great and wake up human. don't eat me i taste terrible! mucinex nightshift cold and flu. fight your worst symptoms so you can sleep great and wake up human.
welcome back, the coronavirus affected -- 12 people have died in japan and the whole world watched last month as 700 passengers became affected aboard the cruise ship "diamond princess." my next quest is jose andres, his team served 3 million meals in the bahamas. in the current crisis, they ended up feeding people on the "diamond princess," explain how a chef who has restaurants all around america and around the world ends up feeding everybody on the "diamond princess," the idea you're being called in in the midst of an outbreak is extraordinary. >> we have to go back to haiti. >> where you got interested in the idea of disaster relief. >> there we began feeding in many places where color became a big problem and we began learning how to handle those
kind of places where color was an issue, and in the way of feeling we were making sure that everybody will be safe. >> so how is the food being prepared on the "diamond prin kwe princess"? >> if you are in a place, a hotel, a cruise ship, where everybody may be under infected, logical to say that you want to make sure in this case food is prepared outside. >> right. people who were injected should not be cool food and giving it to people who may not be infected. >> princess cruise line they call us, the government of japan was actually very helpful. we sent some of our best team members, we were in mozambique.
after the typhoon, there was a lot of cholera. every single place we were cholera was not an issue. we had good protocols. cholera and coronavirus are two different things but nonetheless we were kind of trying to respond to those situations, to make sure that our people are the cooks were protected but at the same time we were doing it in such a way that everybody will be protected. we would cook outside, we got a lot of help from different japanese chefs. we will bring the food to these kitchens near the boat where we will reheat the food and put it back and bring it in with a forklift. everything -- >> and they distribute it. >> and then inside they will take care of it. everything was done, i would say, in a very professional way to make sure that everybody will be safe, achieving what we wanted, feed everybody in a healthy way. >> you've learned the learning
curve has been huge for you and you're feeding millions of people in puerto rico and bahamas and places where food isn't getting out. what have you learned about disaster response? when i hear, you know, you and i had dinner the other night and when you told me what you were doing i thought it was amazing but i was also freaked out that a guy who's just gotten involved in disaster relief is the one who's feeding people in this situation. you would think there would be protocols and a long established way of doing this kind of stuff. what have you learned about disaster relief from your point of view and what needs to get better in an outbreak like this? >> in the 21st century we need to be asking from our local governments. and more responsibility. if they're in charge of taking care of the people of the world, they should be taking care of the people of the world. let me tell you what we need to do, we need to give voice and the tools of success of the people that know, very often we
listen to the people that don't know. we need the professionals and the experts with the power to execute protocols that will be successful. i see way too many politicians speaking, way too many people speaking in congress. those people should be on the ground on the front lines. there is a problem in any state in the united states of america, we need the best people there making sure that that will never be a problem. that's what i'm saying. for example, one of the biggest problems, if we shut down the schools, poor neighborhoods and school districts, who is feeding those children where their only meal every day only happens at the school. we need to be planning less and adapt more. i feel that sometimes we have way too many plans and nobody -- we need to be training people to be adaptable. you need to adapt to situations you never see coming.
that's the main expertise. >> i'm glad you're in this fight. quick break, and more audience questions coming up next. we'll be right back. (driver vo) when i started this commute, everyone said i was crazy. so fifteen years ago, i got my first subaru and i did it anyway. for more than five hundred thousand miles, my outback always got me there. so when it was time, of course i got a new one. because my kids still need me. and i need them.
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all are having to adapt to the coronavirus outbreak. the racism and xenophobia it's sparked in some people. we have an audience question about that in a moment. one incident, shot in a los angeles subway, by a woman who is not chinese. she's american of thai descent. she was subjected to a verbal rant who started talking immediately about the coronavirus -- apparently we have problems with that video. he rambled on for more than ten minutes, she said, nobody on the subway helped her at all. i think it's now working. let's take a look. >> every disease has ever came from china, everything comes from china. it's disgusting. >> a man who knows a lot about being disgusting. so it's incredibly disturbing to see that and we heard from carl
earlier who's in quarantine whose wife is getting hassled at work because she's with him. i want to introduce everybody to adam whalen. let me -- i can't even say exactly what -- you are so much smarter than me. you're a biostatistics major. >> yes in epidemiology. >> what's your question? >> covid-19 is not only a biological disease, it's a social one. many of us in the public health field have seen overt xenophobia targeting asian-americans as a result of this outbreak and as incidents increase so too will the discrimination. how do we separate the biological facts from the disease to the racist views members of this community face? >> david, if you have any take on this question, what are you seeing on the ground in china, how people are being treated? >> this has been going on,
anderson, and sanjay and adam to your question, for several weeks. we've seen this with regards to folks who are of asian descent, not only in places like in the u.s., but also in europe. some of the cases that we've heard have been as extreme as chinese tourists with a group and being left behind and essentially stranded and then the chai need government trying to figure out how to get the tourists back. people being pushed away on the subway. here in china it's also been happening. it's folks from hubei province or from wuhan. it's happening at the domestic level as well where people are being ostaxis pass you and don' pick you up. it's a real issue that's gotten the attention of the government and the state media in particular. in part to answer adam's question what the government here has been doing through certain propaganda outlets as well have been trying to diffuse this and stressing that everyone is going through this together, this is a collective effort to try to push past but also
they're issuing policy and doing so against western countries like the u.s. the chinese government, for example, has advised their citizens not to go to the u.s. they're saying do not travel there because you will potentially be treated unfairly in the midst of all of this. it's rising the ranks to the governmental level too. it's a real concern and one that's seeming to only grow as this crisis grows. >> yeah. we have another question from bianca hunter, a production editor at gillford press here in new york. what's your question is this. >> isn't it true that children often don't show symptoms of illnesses, as early as adults, like they can -- they basically can look like they're not sick, and then by the time you start to seek help or whatever they're really sick, like gravely ill because they, you know -- >> it's interesting because with this particular virus, for whatever reason, we don't know, it's good news though, that kids seem to be somewhat insulated
from this. they can get the infection but they're not getting really sick. your point is a good one that sometimes with other viruses kids will look fine for a period of time and because they don't have as much reserve they can suddenly start to decline. doctors and hospitals have to keep a close eye monitoring kids for a period of time for that reason. we still don't know why kids are so protected from this. there might be some clues in that going forward. is there something we can learn from kids that we can apply adults as well. >> deborah warren, should we be concerned about products that have arrived via mail? >> we have an idea this virus might survive on surfaces for a few days but it depends so much on the particular conditions. put a virus on a dry fabric, it may not stay but you add what we call a microdot of snot, and you have the humidity and moisture that lets the virus thrive. so it depends on the conditions again. this is a new virus.
>> what about money? >> you know -- >> currency. >> it can be -- the chinese government has been burning currency to make sure it's not causing more disease spread. >> do we know for a fact it can be on money? >> card board, because it's so porous, it won't last there, but money they were burning it because they were worried it was contaminated and a source of spread. >> the tweet questions i just saw on the wall and i've seen a couple, people are saying they've booked for a cruise in a couple weeks, should they go? i mean, i know what my answer would be but i'm not a health professional so i'm not going to -- >> here's the issue. if you're totally fine, if somebody gets sick on your cruise ship you saw what happened with the diamond, you see what's happening with this cruise ship off the coast of san francisco, most of the people on that ship are fine but now they may be quarantined. they're sort of cruising off the coast of california, not coming
into san francisco yet so you could be wrapped up in it even if you yourself physically are well. >> same thing with traveling, should you go on a vacation overseas, not so much the threat to you parly but getting trapped in a place where they have a quarantine of a particular area you're staying in. that's something you have to take into consideration. >> or -- >> flight travel, airplane flights are going to be cancelled, fewer flights, harder to get to and from. >> i do say cruise ships are hot zones, outbreaks are so common, if not something respiratory. when you have that many people packed together one person gets something and it spreads so quickly. >> even saying the winter vomiting virus sounds lovely. >> i've had it when i worked in a hospital, not lovely. >> this is a student at ncu. what's your question? >> if i have been exposed to
covid-19 and i do not have insurance who will pay for the treatment and recovery involved? >> great question. >> can i just say that we talked earlier on your show about the test kits being broken, but we need to talk about the system being broken. 27 million americans are uninsured, many more are underinsured and we have so much data already that that delays people getting the treatment that they need at the best of times. that's not good. but during an epidemic that's terrible. it delays people getting the care they need, which is bad for them but it's bad for everybody. >> do we even know if the testing is free? >> the testing is free. it's considered an essential health benefit now. so that part will be covered but i think your question is about the hospitalization, everything that would be associated with that. >> that's expensive. >> there's no guarantees about that being covered. >> there's not a guarantee about that part but the testing at least for the time being will be covered. >> as far as we know we're
hearing it's covered by medicare and medicaid, and state and local public health labs. watch that as it's changing. >> practical questions too, a lot of people have talked about this, but masks. >> i -- you know, this is a really interesting thing. i found this fascinating. people do want to take control in a situation like this. we can't be dismissive of the idea people want to wear masks. for someone who's healthy, it's not going to protect you against the virus. important point, the surgical mask will not protect you against the virus. it may actually become a reservoir when you're taking it on, when you're taking it off. you could actually contaminate yourself. >> a reservoir -- >> it traps viral particles. it doesn't do what people think it would do. i think masks are good for people who are already sick because it may decrease the amount of respiratory droplets
coming out of their mouth or nose. for health care workers taking care of very sick patients. they need a special mask, n 95 mask which is airtight. >> when you wear a mask you end up fussing with the mask, more than anything, it doesn't fit right, your glasses get fogged up. >> people touch their eyes -- >> you're touching your face even more when you wear a mask. >> you have a false sense of security. we do tell health care workers it's okay for them to wear the surgical mask to prevent droplets. >> the masks that people are buying are meant for single use. the idea that you're going to be wearing that for days at a time not wise. >> it could become contaminated. >> 95 is not for everybody. you have to be fit tested and i
have a weird face and 95s don't fit on my face. i have to wear a different kind. people are walking around with facial hair and what beard works and doesn't work. there was some terrible recommendations around that. >> i've seen people wearing gas masks, which seems very extreme. but you need a special -- water in a gas mask is difficult. i don't know why i know this. >> people have been wearing gas masks on the tube in london as if we're back in wartimes. the issue we had in the uk is that there was a mask shortage. dentists were told to cut back the number of patients they should cena given day because they did not have enough masks to do their work. with epidemics, it's the trickle down effect that overwhelming the system at large. >> up next, a closer look at how the virus may have originated. go to "fact versus fiction,"
with dr. sanjay gupta. a golf course is designed to be difficult. to challenge your thinking and test your execution. but great minds are driven to seek out the complex. they see what others don't, from an angle others won't take. they learn that embracing those challenges is what sets them apart. i am justin rose, and we are morgan stanley.
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from animals to humans. this is from a documentary sanjay and i did back in 2008, planet in peril. some of the video is graphic. take a look. >> this monkey is infected with rote ro viruss -- >> nathan wolf is concerned about what what unknown viruses these animals are carrying. touching off a pandemic. >> there's at least three viruses you know about in this particular monkey. >> this species, yeah. >> and there's many more pathogens present in these animals. these individuals are at specific risk, particularly depending on the level of contact, but if there's blood contact they're at risk for transmission and infection with novel viruss. >> novel viruss. back with me are dr. sanjay
gupta. you saw nathan wolf. nice to see you, never seen you in a suit. always been in forests with you. you warned of this back in 2008. and before that as well. i wonder what you make not only of this outbreak, but just the global response as well. >> well, look, it's important to think about -- we talked about the 1918 pandemic, how many flights were there in 1918? zero. how many flights do we anticipate in 2020? 40 million flights. the nature of our world and the connectivity of our world has changed so dramatically we're going to continue to see these outbreaks again and again. >> the reason we were in the forest, that's basically the front line of where that transmission may occur, a hunter kills an animal, the animal's blood has been carried back, skinning the animal, might get
blood on the hunter and with a cut, enters the human body. >> for many people they may feel what we're experiencing is a groundhog day and it's certainly the case these epidemics are going to continue into the future. but a lot has happened since 10, 12 years ago when we were doing this. there's been a tremendous investment. now the u.s. government invests something on the order of $12 billion a year for health security. it needs to be sustained, it's not enough but what we weren't doing then we do now. >> health security, what does that mean? >> it means catastrophic health risks like epidemics but potentially other risks as well. there's a tremendous amount of change that's happened but we also are missing a big future piece and it's important for people to consider and maybe it's appropriate for your next guest. we consider the impact on mortality and morbidity. do people die or get sick, there's also livelihood damage, which is worst case scenario,
the worst absolute scenarios, 99% of the people on this planet are going to live and many of those people will be devastated financially. whether it's loss of a breadwinner, whether it's absenteeism, whether the impact of corporations going down in this and we've had huge, huge changes with hurricanes and earthquakes. where now there's insurance, there's america nicmechanisms f understanding risks. this is not happening at all in regards to epidemics. we're ten years behind. >> can i ask you a quick question? you were in those forests areas and i remember you talking about this chatter that goes back and forth between animals and humans, the pathogens going back and forth. could this have been predicted? given that we keep encroaching on animal habitat, will we see more of these outbreaks? >> let's face it, we understand
much more about this class of viruses than we did 12 years ago. we've seen mrs, sars, and we now have seen this sars coronavirus 2, covid-19. all of these bats may have come through a camel, but these come from horseshoe bats almost certainly, there's where all the diversity exists. the notion that within 24 to 48 hours you can get a sequence out of a virus, there's been a tremendous amount, we heard earlier about usad predict. there have been a huge number of projects that have fundamentally changed what we've done. the question is where do we go from here and continue to move forward? >> it's also interesting, we were in cameroon, i think. when we shot that. it seems far away to most people. it's only two plane rides away. one short flight and one very
long flight and today it's not just that food, the bush meat, it can end up in the united states or markets all around the world. we are much more connected in that way and as there's people migrating there's also food migrating and people coming into contact with animals they hadn't previously. >> yeah and the science is really advanced tremendously. there's a fascinating new project called the global viron project. the idea is can we really continue what we've done and sequence enough to know the vast majority of viruses out there with pandemic potential. we'll experience more and more of these and we'll be sitting in this audience again in five years, in ten years, in 20 years. >> it seems like we don't necessarily learn the lessons in how to respond or we're learning them new each time? is that fair?
>> we have improved, i would say. i was thinking back to 2008 things really have improved since then. you see the speed at which you get great health communication out of places like vietnam. massive investments by the vut in a mese government and u.s. g government. the connectivity improves. global interdependence of our economy. so the cost of these things is going to continue to mount. ichb taupely shocked over the last couple of years working with corporations, how unconcerned they are with these phenomenons, how they lack the capacity to have the data that influences their impact and unlike hurricanes and earthquake, almost no corporate insurance. disney world in florida closed, i think it's seven or eight times due to hurricanes. you can bet that that risk has
been transferred and mitigated and spread around. shanghai disney land closes. undoubtedly that has not occurred. that's very important. if this would have become an epidemic that would kill percentages of the human population, krooud be talking about defaults in life insurance, a whole range of impacts on human population. >> we're just starting to see the impact financially. david culver, they shut down the particular market. but what about other markets across the country? >> that was considered to be the epicenter. and we were there before the lockdown. the belief was that the transmission happened there initially but what we're hearing is conflicting data. officials believe it may have
come before the market and the first known case didn't have any connection to the market. several of the following cases were linked to that location. several other markets were shut down. the chinese government worked quickly. while that was a seafood market, wildlife, they believe, was being sold illegally. there's a ban on consumption and sale of wildlife. it's beyond the origins. it's affecting not just the outdoor markets but supermarkets. we went shop thinking weekend to get a feel of what it was like and you step into the grocery store, the people are layered up. they're wearing gloves. one by one carts are sanitized and handed off to you. they have people going through the aisles with loud speakers saying keep a meter apart. if that's not enough they will physically remind you to keep a meter apart from the next person. that's the extreme it's coming to and people seem to be
adjusting, anderson, to this new normal. >> thank you very much. i want to bring in a student at columbia university. what's your question? >> my question centers on the validity of the statistical mash it is currently being used to quantify the spread. i'm concerned about the reports regarding slow spread of coronavirus in africa given the devastating effects of ebola. is it not taking hold in africa or are we inaccurately measuring its spread? >> nathan? >> look, do think when we measure preparedness of countries around the world, again, things have improved. they continue to improve. but not every part of the world is equally prepared. and some parts of the world have massive population density and sometimes they overlap, think about a city like delhi or bombay. i think we have to be very concerned. we have to provide tremendous
support to the scientists and public health officials in places that are still developing infrastructure. i do think that the capacity to detect cases is improved dramatically it's not anywhere near where it could be. >> also it brings up the larger point even in the united states, because we don't have testing widespread yet we don't know the scope of this. >> we don't. but we should point out that in nigeria, there has been a case confirmed of coronavirus and they did an amazing job we bola back in 2014. there was a patient who showed up in lagos at the airport, collapsed in the airport terminal, many health care workers subsequently got infected and they were able to contain that. i've talked to my colleagues and they say they want increased testing as well like so many places do. they feel like they have the capacity and the experience to be able to control this. there are certain places around
the world that just have a good infrastructure for this sort of thing. >> accurate statistics. >> they need that. >> this is eric brokoy, a nurses rock. thank you for being here. >> the new york subway is the main transportation in new york city. i don't see it shutting down or else i can't go to work. but what are the mta measures to prevent the transmission and proliferation of the virus? >> many things, cnn is our travel expert in all things. >> on the subway there is not a lot you can do in that respect. you know, the previous speaker was making the point, these things like the tube in london, the metro in paris, the subway in new york, they are the backbones of the economic system of getting most of us to work. and the reality is all you can do is very fundamental and basic
advice that you've been hearing, and that throws up holy shoes, not least of which do you wear a mask, don't you i. w. i was traveling through europe. many people are wearing masks. >> everything i've heard about airplanes is that it's not -- people are afraid about circulating air. it's really an issue of being close to other people. if somebody sneezes on you -- airplanes -- we were talking to manuel about this and dr. nuzo. >> the air has changed in the plane. it's refreshed every three minutes at a maximum. it's constantly being refreshed. as the cdc pointed out, sent the begee bees in people. you are two people away. my passenger, i'm probably the next side. sanjay, just about i would not be, would not be at risk to me.
the airlines are deeply, deeply concerned. i was speaking to two or three airlines during the course of the day. senior management. they are doing what they can, but this is a major economic disruption to the airlines and to the travel industry. >> again, it gets to what you were saying. you disinfect with wipes on an airplane. if you're on a subway, you're holding on the rail, holding on a rail. >> i think how people should behave typically during flu season. again, we don't pay much attention to it. flu we're used to, the devil you do, the devil you don't. even during flu season, there is basic -- the same principles you're talking about should be applied here. they would work or be effective here against coronavirus, like flu season. we just don't think about it as much. >> again, if you're concerned about coronavirus and you haven't gotten a flu shot, those are two -- you should get a flu shot. >> i'm really curious after the coronavirus vaccine is developed, what percentage of the population actually gets it. >> if you're not getting the flu vaccine, why would you get the corona vaccine. >> exactly.
>> this is somebody, parashir? thank you so much for being here. you're getting a masters in public health, that's awesome, at nyu. >> my question is recently south korea has currently pioneered coronavirus testing stations. why do you think this idea hasn't been implemented in the united states. >> i want to go to ivan watson in seoul. he actually went throughout a drive-thru testing station. what was that like? >> reporter: i drove a car through. i actually got the test. i got a swab shoved way too far up my nose which is part of the process. the mayor of the city that implemented that said he was inspired by starbucks and mcdonald's drive-thrus and the doctors that we talked to said this really speeds up the process of testing people and also protects the doctors and the nurses from more contact with potential carriers because the patients never get out of the cars. and they could process at that
one place more than 300 people a day. seoul, the capital, now has at least three of these drive-thru testing centers. and as we've reported before, more than 150,000 people have been tested here. i think this is an example of how amid this public health crisis, people are coming up with ideas. they are adapting. and just one final observation for you, anderson and sanjay. it's midday here in the capital. there's a lot of pedestrian and vehicular traffic here. life has not stopped just because coronavirus -- you have the second highest number of infections here in south korea anywhere outside of mainland china. there is massive disruption. there is uncertainty, but a message i would send, having covered this across a couple of countries in the region and many of my colleagues were living here and families are living here with the uncertainty. life still does go on, though you may get stuck going crazy trying to take care of your kids at home when schools are closed
for weeks if not months at a time. >> we have about a minute left. are you cutting down on your travel at all? >> well, being forced to in some cases. otherwise, no, not really. we have to continue to travel. i mean, that's the reality. the other reality of this crisis, they will not be affected directly by coronavirus in any shape or form, except by the way the stock market has fallen and their wealth has been impinged through pensions, 401(k)s and by the way of the travel industry. that is the way people are going to feel the effects of this crisis. >> we have a minute left. >> i want us to focus on the emotional contagion part. i don't think it's enough to tell people don't panic unless you're saying don't panic because, but do panic because. diseases do not spread in isolation. they spread alongside rumors and pseudoscience and anti-vaccine messages. those are just as important to fight. >> sanjay? >> i'm really -- we talk about this 80% number of people who
are going to probably either have minimal symptoms or no symptoms. but we've also identified -- >> 80% of the people in this room will likely get it and have no symptoms >> or minimal symptoms. it means we identified a vulnerable population. i'm thinking of my parents. they're elderly, in that population now. i think action really can inform how we do things, you know. the idea that nursing home in washington state ended up becoming a place where this virus spread, now we know nursing homes are a place we should focus on. and so how do we protect elderly people and people with preexisting conditions. that's what we should focus on. >> facts, not fear. sanjay, thank you. thank our guests for their expertise and audience for great questions. thank you for watching. the news continues next on cnn. good night. (professor) sound power is defined as thought a surface the product of sound pressure and a component of the partial
welcome to primetime. it's an important night. the threat to us is not coronavirus. it's how we handle it. the latest, the vp says there aren't enough tests. it's unacceptable. the president said he had it under control. he doesn't. and apparent lyft there is no cure for this president's viral lack of voraciity. we have something special for you tonight. a doctor who believes there could be a quicker way to identify the virus that you don't