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tv   Squawk Box  CNBC  November 30, 2021 6:00am-9:00am EST

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stay-at-home stocks, though, as you might imagine are rallying plus the twitter transition. how the stock reacted to news that jack dorsey is stepping down and brian kelly is leaving notre dame, that's weird it's tuesday, november 30th, 2021, "squawk box" begins right now. good morning, everybody. welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc i'm becky quick along with joe kernen and andrew ross sorkin. as joe mentioned we are watching the markets under pressure once again this morning saw a little bit of respite with the dow up about 236 points. the s&p was up by about 60 points which is 1.3% nasdaq up by almost 300 points,
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a gain of almost 1.9%. but this morning dow futures down by 412 points the s&p off by 44, nasdaq down by 77. if you want to put that in percentage terms you'll see the s&p is down by about 1%, dow 1.2% and the nasdaq off by just .5%. we should point out that we are pretty near all-time highs still. the dow is less than 4% from an all-time high. the s&p less than 2%, and nasdaq less than 3% from an all-time high that's before you add in the factors this morning so the dow closer to 5% below the all-time high maybe. we've continued to watch this, even in the face of the news, there has been some resilience treasury markets a big factor in all this yesterday the ten year went back to 1.5, today it's at 1.434% and crude oil has been part of this too crude oil down by about 2.7%,
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back below $70 at 68 for wti that's having an impact on the oil stocks too all of these have seen pressure when you see pressure on oil prices you pointed out it's been a tough month for wti, on pace for the worst month since 2020 diamondback energy down by 3%. if you're watching the travel stocks it's the same thing, concern with expedia, the cruise lines under pressure 2 to 3% airlines, those stocks are also down this morning. right now i think the biggest decliner is american, which is down by 3.2. united also down by 3% the stay-at-home stocks are the ones that are the high flyers, they are getting a bid this morning, zoom up by about 2.75%. let's talk about the comments because that's what
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appears to be moving the futures lower although as joe said he made similar comments to us and the ft, which published that in an interview with that with him. stephan bancel, the ceo of moderna where he said he expects vaccine efficacy to drop against the omicron variant. squawk viewers will remember he told us the same thing at 7:00 a.m. yesterday. >> we believe the virus is highly infectious, we need to get more data but it's more infectious than delta. given the mutations it's possible that the efficacy of the vaccine, all of them is going down, but we need to wait for the data to know if this is true and how much is it going down >> and he said it would take several weeks to gather more data about the vaccine efficacy. his comments coming just hours after fed chair jay powell in prepared comments to senate lawmakers ahead of testimony today said the recent uptick in covid cases poses a threat to
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the u.s. economy and muddle an already uncertain inflation outlook. but you'd think in certain ways, guys, that that second part, the jay powell -- first of all, i don't understand why the markets are reacting the way they are now, given the comments had been out at least 24 hours if not longer the second part is if you look at the jay powell comments they're like the bill aikman comments to say if this is going to cause a problem for the economy, he didn't say he was going to stop tapering any sooner or let the punch bowl go on longer but you think he would. >> he said it created problemproblems for both of the fed's mandates the fed can't fix that >> it's a specter of stagflation. you know, if supply chain problems are going to cause prices to go up and the ten year
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is telling us that growth is going to be affected by reclosing in whatever area you want to look at -- >> is as wti. >> -- but at least international travel and -- are we going to davos? >> that's a very good question >> did you think about that? >> i'm planning on it. i've got my plans set up >> i think it's -- i don't know. it's below our pay grade to make those decisions. but someone is going to make those -- i'm kidding that was for management, that was a joke but someone is going to make decisions and, you know, places are very risk averse i can't imagine. i don't want to get stuck in europe, do you >> not being able to come back. >> not in the place i get put up over there and no -- you can't even get food i eat pizza like three times a day. swiss pizza. i don't know what that is. >> part of the question is going to be -- what's the definition of fully vaccinated? are you fully vaccinated after
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two shots or now that you are seeing it, do you have to have a booster shot >> he said to us -- we had a long conversation about when a new vaccine that was catered to omicron would be ready and he said early '22 why would we have been talking about the need for a rejiggered vaccine if he wasn't saying that the -- i don't understand why. >> they don't know for sure. i think it'll be a couple of weeks before they know if this is -- >> right >> why is the market reacting this way >> what is it, it's 2 -- it's big, it's 400 points yesterday when we were rebounding 300, it was a slight rebound. today we're down 400, it's a resumed crash. >> you're still talking a couple percentage points, down 900, up 200, down 400. it's a couple of percentage points at this point
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people are preparing for the idea that the reopening could get pushed back a little bit by a number of months i think that's kind of how people are going about looking at this. back to your point about the fed, andrew. if the problems with supply chain and getting people to work, the fed is not going to be able to fix that, the government is not going to fix that the more money they put out the less likely they are to come back to work >> yeah. but i'm in the aikman camp on this one, i think. which is if the fed doesn't take the punch bowl away, keep it out there longer, it's good for equities, bad for bonds, right >> there's the other side he's going to taper quicker because we're going to have bigger inflationary concerns. >> right >> so there's either/or. so i don't know. i just like bill -- i'd just like the aikman low. that's my favorite call. we're doubled the market from
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where, you know -- i would like to know what the cases look like in terms of severity, not just trance transmission >> right >> we're seeing some anecdotal evidence that it's not -- >> but we're seeing -- >> do you want to talk go ahead. >> i was going to say the problem is everyone is so young in south africa, not a problem, maybe a benefit but we're not going to know for a couple of weeks because the average age is so young that everything looks mild and hopefully it is mild. it's hard to take away -- >> it would be a problem if it was a really serious case and it was in young people, for example. >> right >> so we should be gratified that even young people have a stronger immune system and it seems to be mild cases, that's tough to take that in a negative way. hopefully, you know, delta was so much more transmissible or
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contagious than the original i've read things that this could be a multiple times contagious asde as delta. >> 500 times >> yeah. >> do you get the -- that's the other thing. we'll talk to dr. patel in a little while so you want to get the booster that's -- the third -- or the third shot that's not catered to this one specifically, but get it anyway, with the notion that you may be getting another one early next year. if we needed one that was specifically used for -- and you guys know that omicron, you must have noticed, becky, it's a jumble anagram. >> omicron it's a jumble anagram for -- i haven't noticed that. let me write it down >> you'll get it. >> i had to check a few times when someone pointed it out to me moronic.
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do you believe that? it is. it's the same letters. >> it is holy cow >> it really is. i also, supposedly if you are faithful to the greek it's omicron, but there are some people that say it's pronounced o-mi-cron. >> i'm sticking with omicron >> i think i'm -- we should know, it's a letter. anybody that's taken -- >> let's talk regeneron, joe -- >> we're going to. >> -- this makes the whole thing more complicated. >> i'm looking down, not checking scores, i'm e mailing our friend to see if he wants to come on. >> i'm trying to do both preliminary tests indicate the covid drug cocktail loses effectiveness, not surprising
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and there are maybe problems with antibody based mont clonals that aren't suited to this spspik protein. second testing from eli lilli indicates it's not as effective against the variant. early researchers are racing to assess the impact of omicron but hopefully the pfizer and the merck drug aren't antibodies they're -- one of them is an inhibitor, the other an analog. >> this is what i was touching on yesterday regenerons and the antibody cocktail is seen as the most promising thing for immunocompromised and cancer patients that they should take this preventatively, which is not approved at this point by the fda to do that, but there's
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an argument saying that cancer patients should take it. the problem with the pfizer pill is not all cancer patients can take the pfizer pill because of drug interactions with their cancer treatments. so if this is less effective, how much less effective? it was so effective against the other variants, north of 90% in terms of cutting down optimizations and death. how effective is it? less effective you can live with if it's still highly effective i would be curious to see the details how much less effective we're talking. >> fingers crossed that it's a mild -- there's no reason to think it somehow has much more, you know, serious epidemiology, whatever you want to call it pathology, whatever you call the way a virus works. hopefully it's not we don't know. in the market, 400 points, that can -- it can do that in the
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blink of an eye based on we just don't know i looked through the headline of every paper. everybody tried to say it differently, variant thread is not yet clear, "the washington post." "the new york times," divergent plans hobble response in the variant. everybody had a different take on how to -- what the editors come up with that, right, andrew, is that someone decides -- >> i have a science question for you, joe if we believe it's more contagious, most of the scientists believe it replicates faster. >> really? >> meaning it replicates faster in the body. >> that's weird i don't know why that would happen. >> the original version of covid relative to the version of delta, it replicated 235s faste in your body, that's what was happening and why it was harder to stop. the question is, would the pfizer pills or any of these other things if it's replicating at a magnitude faster in your
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body, how much faster do the pills or whatever the medicine have to work >> it needs a -- you know -- it's important so that's an essential function, that's why it doesn't mutate much then there's other ways of attacking it, though, andrew there's a prelimrace and that would certainly you know, there's rna, dna, so we're getting really in the weeds here, which we probably should wait. >> we have three hours to do squawk science and we will when we come back we'll talk more about the markets because stock futures are pointing to a sharp drop at the open we'll talk about the catalyst beyond those comments. we'll do that next and later, ray dalio is going to join us, talk about the reaction to the market drop, the omicron variant and concerns, as well as
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edward jones and kerry firestone is with us as well good morning to both of you. mona, can you explain what's happening here in the futures this morning as far as we can tell, i don't know if you were listening the last 15 minutes, these comments he said yesterday on our air and now all of a sudden the world is turned around because he said them in print. >> yeah, you know, look, i think the markets are going through a period of uncertainty. as we know, markets don't like uncertainty. there's still questions remaining. the ceo as you noted, raising questions around the efficacy of the vaccine that was probably front in center in the investors' minds and now we're seeing the selloff secondly people are still wondering what is the virulent as you were talking about ear earlier, how severe will this be versus delta, if it's not as
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severe, that's ositive, not as much strain on our icu beds, et cetera if not we have a not-derailed market but perhaps a delayed reopening. so in our mind the market reaction here does make a lot of sense we're seeing a flight to safety in terms of the ten year treasury yield back down to 1.42 we're seeing equity selloff but more of a defensive posturing in terms of large cap technology outperforming in terms of some of the bond proxies, like rates and utilities outperforming. we think this is the market posture in the near term longer term we do expect the reopening 2.0 to continue. we think we're in a much better position today than we were about a year ago keep in mind not only do we have vaccines and therapeutics in place, we have a consumer that has a much stronger balance sheet. we have corporate earnings that are strong and we have a fed now that perhaps is a little more dovish and not as eager to kind
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of raise rates next year >> kerry, what do you think of the headline risk at this point? cramer was tweeting out this morning, over the next couple weeks we'll hear good news potentially and bad news there will be a day where somebody announces that this variant is here in the united states that it's spreading in other places that's going to be invariably bad news and the market will take it. and the question is what's going to happen on the other end if we find out it's mild or not worse than the delta variant, how should investors think about that >> well, as mona said the market is fragile, on one hand wants to be enthusiastic about the market reopening, gdp growth, strong three weeks before christmas we want to see retail sales booming. on the other hand we have this impending fear and doom with
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what's happening with omicron. what we saw over the last two days so we have an n of two, is one day of big selling and another day of big buying. we have buyers and sellers out there. on the bad day, on friday, there were $2 billion of inflow, retail inflows, which were very, very high number and shows that strength in the market on the retail side which is relatively new on days like that. that's positive. we also have this big day from the tech giants, the digital players, you know, apple, google, amazon, salesforce, et cetera now these stocks can perform well earnings wise both with big reopening or even if there's some type of slow down or potential reclosing in places because they're agnostic no how people are working and where they are when they are receiving their communications and sending
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them and they're a big part of the market so that's almost a protective bubble we think you have to believe that both sides are possible buyers, sellers, weakness, better news, and so try to find the middle ground where you have some reopening, some steady growth, play those types of names on both sides of the spectrum, and there are names that, of course, are way down, because there's a lot of tax selling. if you look at disney, discovery, auto desk, vertext, bumble, beyond meat because once they started to go down, they continued to hammer, hammered by investors who need some place to take losses versus the big gains we've had this year. >> if everybody is looking at 12 months at the world, why are people not looking -- maybe they should and maybe they shouldn't
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be looking through this we used to look through these news events like this in a way that maybe we're not now >> well, it's interesting. you can draw parallel to maybe last march of 2020 when we did get a severe drop in the markets and pretty rapidly thereafter we saw recovery and so i think generally when investors are looking at these opportunities, over time they will start to look through i think we just need a little bit of certainty around, you know, the variant and, you know, its vaccine effectiveness, et cetera but once that is in place we think investors will look six to 12 months as they always do out and see what the backdrop is keep in mind this recovery, this economic recovery in our view is still very much in its middle innings. when we do tend to get worried from a market perspective is when we get the 20% draw downs is when the economy is entering a recession or in a recession or the fed is toward the end of its
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tightening cycle in our view, neither of those are in place for next year so this bull market may have legs still but we think returns will moderate and we get more volatility, only natural later in the cycle we think the covid recovery will have speed bumps along the way but over time we think we will be able to manage this and the economy will be able to reopen in some form and so, in our view this could potentially provide some opportunities, particularly when you think about the value cyclical leg, which is underperforming and may likely underperform until we get that clarity. but as we start reopening again we may see a leg higher there. >> okay. mona, kerry, thank you thank you both appreciate it. when we come back more on "squawk box. reaction to the shakeup at twitter, we'll talk about jack dorsey's exit.
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welcome back to "squawk box. this morning we are watching shares of twitter a day after ceo jack dorsey is stepping down and the new ceo taking the top job. shares closing lower by about 2.47%. dorsey will remain a member of the board but only his term expires in 2022, he'll be exceeded by the salesforce coo, brett taylor he decided to leave twitter because he believes the company is ready to move on from its founders now the new ceo is 37 years old and has been with twitter for more than a decade he's been involved with strategy
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and machine learning led twitter to make tweaks in time lines to make views more relevant but a question on his departure, how much was planned, how much was pressure by activists, but also i think there's investors wondering what the strategy is going to be. i don't think the strategy looks to be dissimilar and given how jack had been working at square at the same time as twitter, it's unclear how much of his eyes were actually on twitter in the first place. >> a lot of those changes they announced already in terms of trying to double the revenue by 2023, all of the new products they tried to speed up and bring to it. so i think the changes in terms of the strategy came already, like you said. >> you saw the scuttlebutt, he's going all in on crypto >> yeah. yeah could be but crypto and philanthropy, i think forbes puts his net worth at potentially $11 million.
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>> i'm still afraid to go all in on crypto. i believe in it more than a lot of people, i'll say that but i'm just waiting for -- >> i don't know if he's leaving just for crypto -- >> that's the scuttlebutt. you're on huff post, i looked at drudge and i had said bets on crypto >> i think that's been part of it. >> i don't know what drudge is anyway it's the drudgington post at this point half the time i'm just going to use cnbc for all my news, i think, cnbc.com. >> good plan when we come back, testimony coming up later today from fed chair jay powell and treasury secretary janet yellen steve liesman will break down what they're supposed to say, especially given the concerns about omicron. we'll be right back.
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good morning, and welcome back to "squawk box. live from the nasdaq market site we are in times square checking the futures pulling back, giving back some of the rebound, all the rebound and
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then some from yesterday so we're now at new near term lows given what we saw on, you know, friday and then monday and tuesday. so this is new low ground but not far at all from all-time highs for the most part at these averages so we're in a wait and see mode, i guess is one way to put it, becky. >> wait and see, we'll get something else to see this morning when jay powell and janet yellen testify before the senate banking committee at 10:00 a.m. eastern time this morning. steve liesman joining us now >> however different the omicron variant ends up from being different from other covid ways, fed chair jay powell saying they may face this variant in a different way. they've been looking at effects on consumer demand and employment
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but today powell raises the prospect they could focus more on the inflationary impacts. he'll say greater concerns about the virus could reduce people's willingness to work in person which would slow progress in the labor market and intensify supply chain disruptions one way to read that, it would exacerbate the inflation problem meaning the fed could accelerate tapering in response to another wave citi saying in a road, fed officials increasingly view covid as a negative supply rather than demand shock and to the extent this adds to other structural inflationary factors could ultimately imply more hawkish monetary policy. powell made other comments saying it was running well above our 2% longer run goal saying inflation will linger well into next year and that labor slack is diminishing and wages are rising at a brisk pace in any context all of that is
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hawkish talk for fed officials let alone the chair. powell did say he expects inflation to move down significantly over the next year and sees the job market and economy continuing to improve. but the chair seems focused on the inflation. pending more info on this new variant tapering still seems set to go and an acceleration can't be ruled out becky? >> that explains the futures this morning if you thought we've seen this playbook before we know how the fed will react, how the congress will react. maybe that's not the case maybe this time really is different. >> i think so. it's hard for me to think that after these comments and this growing concern, remember, bostick on friday even after the omicron news came out said he saw the possibility of an accelerated taper. so i'm not sure -- i can't be sure here but it does seem like
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there's a change in tack remember what we were talking about yesterday that fed officials believed that the negative economic impacts from each wave has been less because we sort of learned to live with it and then you have this persistent inflation problem in front of you and it bha the fed decided the answer here to the covid wave may not be to add more stimulus but at least keep going. and i'm not sure because the next couple of weeks may be critical in this information it's why i listened to all of the science squawk that goes on in doing my economic reports, you have to. but the next two weeks are going to be critical it's whether or not the fed accelerates taper and keeps on going. >> he got the nod on the reappointment so now he can do what he should have been doing all along without worrying about appeasing all the doves. >> yeah, you know, you could say that, joe. i think there's a case to be said on that
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but you live and you learn there isn't a central bank playbook on fighting a virus right. the idea that the initial response was to attack aggregate demand or worry about aggregate demand that seemed to make sense. whether or not there was a point in time that the fed should have allowed the baton to pass to the fiscal side. i've been thinking this through a lot, joe, and i'm trying to think back on what would have happened if in response to say president biden's stimulus bill the 1.9 trillion, the fed would have tightened it's difficult for the federal reserve to do that and it gets at the political considerations that go into monetary policy >> all right yep. you switched from stimulating to worrying about the supply chain constraints of the virus or the variant causing, you know, renewed inflation. it's really -- i don't envy.
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that's why be careful what you wish for. >> it's potentially a dramatic change. >> be careful what you wish for. >> it's potentially a dramatic change here. >> he has a real tough job it's always tough. but it's kind of cool being one of the most powerful people in the world. we guess we know what that's like guys, right? no, we don't coming up an update from dr. patel on the omicron variant. and don't miss our interview with bridgewater's r dioayal to get his take on this morning's market and pillullback. we'll be right back.
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news just out this morning, regeneron says preliminary tests indicate that its covid antibody drug cocktail loses effe effectiveness against omicron, they have backup antibodies that are likely better against the variant. joining us now is dr. kavita patel. i think we're all perhaps working with the same body of overall info, which is lacking, doctor, so anything that we talk about i don't know how we can do anything other than maybe just try to logically come to some
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conclusions, which may or may not be worth anything. but let me start with a question it's been posited to me that in previous epidemics that when there are mutant strains of a virus that many times they become more transmissible but become less virulent and some of the cases in south africa, maybe they're in people with very strong immune systems, but is that historically correct that there's no reason to think that it could necessarily be a worse bug or more virulent and might be less is that possible >> that is possible you're right we've seen it in several previous -- including the previous spanish flu pandemic. it's a way that viruses would like to continue to try to reproduce, being highly transmissible is a way to
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reproduce because when you combine transmissibility and virulence you attack a lot more people and when there are more and more immunized people, which is what we hope will happen over time globally, the virus does need to mutate but the mutations encourage it to be easier to infect others for the purpose of speed. so it's really a race of survival that's what we're hoping we see as we get more details out of the southern africa and some of the cases outside of africa than community based transmission to your point about the antibody treatments it's true preliminary data was put out from an outside lab that confirms it's likely to be reduced in efficacy, doesn't mean drastically, just in a way that makes it less effective but remember we have other antibodies that target different
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parts of the variant and we think they could hold up and be just as if not more effective than predecessors. >> so the spike protein on the surface isn't the only thing that you can generate an antibody against >> it covers -- it really has to do -- correct. and it also has to do with kind of the domains that they cover -- >> of the spike protein. >> -- they're different -- exactly. for example, with astrazeneca, they took a broad approach looking at previous coronaviruses which have been around for a long time and trying to cover mutational areas in those viruses so that's good news. it just means that today's fda advisory meeting on the merck anti-viral will be an interesting one because there's this color over this meeting around an anti viral pill as well as pfizer's upcoming
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anti-viral pill. >> you can probably assume that existing vaccines are making antibodies to the old spike protein so just like the mont clonals from regeneron are less effective, therefore your own antibodies that your body makes would be less effective. but still somewhat effective in perhaps preventing the worst case scenarios and hospitalizations and everything else >> yeah. and montclonals are an outside source of antibodies the nice thing about vaccine immunity you can have from the cells that make your antibody response, joe, those cells are able to be smart enough in real time when they detect a new presence of a threat, a variant that looks a little bit different, it can adjust and create more of those kind of
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antibody-binding domains that are responsive to some of the newer mutations. that's the hope. that's why you're seeing an emphasis on getting boosted. why the cdc updated guidance to, quote, should. we can all, as americans, pretty soon, i don't know exactly when, expect that fully immunized will include a booster. >> and maybe people who have had a full-blown infection of covid that have seen the entire virus, they may also be in a position to do better than someone who didn't have it there must be some immunity -- herd immunity to omicron as well -- >> right. >> -- you would hope. >> right we hope. >> thanks, doctor. >> thank you. >> just figuring things out. speculating, but, you know, what else can we do at this point in time we'll just hope for the best. >> that's right. when we come back, we'll talk about ibonds this is an
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investmental you probably haven't heard of, but warren buffett has, he likes the esvestment and so does our next gut. this is something you need to know about so stay tuned. we'll be right back.
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welcome back, everybody. our next guest talks to us about investment of something you probably haven't thought of but should talking about the virtually risk-free investment is john len. he is a writer, frequently blogging you took an uncomplicated topic of the ibonds. you explained it beautifully a. couple months ago, warren buffet said this was a great investment i didn't pay it much attention, the day i read your blog i opened up an account and bought $10,000 of these bonds it's the most you can buy. it's important because it's a great technique for savers, the people who have gotten hosed by
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the federal reserve, tell us what ibonds are. >> oh, thank you, becky, for having me. yeah, ibonds are one of the two savings bonds that are issued by the u.s. government. ibonds basically are a risk-free investment because they're backed by the whole faith and credit of the u.s. government, of course. right now, they're offering an interest rate of 7.12% if you think about it, an interest rate of 7% that is risk-free is really unattainable anywhere else. that interest rate is composed of two components, a fixed rate, which is currently zero percent and has been about one year. the more interesting component is the inflation rate and that is indexed the of cpi. and that has been as all your viewers know, it has been rising quite a lot, shares, most recently i think in october it was about
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6% so the interest rate resets every six months in may and november and so, that interest rate of 7% will be good for the next six months and then it will reset in may of next year. >> we just heard from steve leishman that the fed is anticipating, innation will be around for well into next year so that means that when the reset comes, you are probably going to get a healthy return. does the "i" in ibond stand for inflation? >> yes, it does, it stands for inflation. ibonds are really wonderful investments. as you pensioned, a lot of people haven't heard about them. they're risk-free because essentially you don't have interest rate risk because unlike a tips bond, you know, even if interest rates rise, you can't actually, the value of your ibonds doesn't go down, they can actually never go
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negative you also don't have inflation risk because you know you are protected against inflation because it's indexed to inflation. >> it's not just that, the additional thing that comes with this is these, you don't pay any state or local taxes on this you pay federal taxes, not until you cash the bond n. really, it's kind of like a savings account on steroids. >> it is i mean, where else can you get a 7% return? i think the average interest rate on savings accounts is .15% nationally and so i think this is almost a no-brainer when you think about where to story, put away cash. the one thing to keep in mind is once you invest in ibond, you cannot remove the cash for one year after one year, you are free to sell it in any time. within five years if you sell it, you lose the last three months of interest you are starting at a rate of
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7% you have been giving up three months of that you are way ahead in a deposit. >> a cd is more than a savings account. you have to hold it more than a year >> that's right. >> the reason you don't hear about this, it's no fees, no investment adviser will make money on by selling it to an investor >> that's right. unfortunately, i think that may be a reason why people haven't heard about it and advisers don't you know mention it more frequently but, yes, i think this is a great investment for savers. there are limitations, of course you can only buy $10,000 per individual or social security number but if you are a married couple, you can buy up to 10/20,000. if you have children, you can buy them in your children's name in like a custodial account. one thing that maybe there is a little trick, actually if you set up a family trust, you can buy an additional
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$10,000 in the name of the family trust let's say you have a family of four, two adults, two children you can buy up to $50,000 a year in these investments per year per calendar year. >> i took your advice on that, opened it up for the kids, too guess what everybody is getting for christmas this year. john, thank you for sharing this well-kept secret it's a great investment. we appreciate your time. thank you for making it so clear. >> absolutely, thank you, becky, for having me. i appreciate it. thank you. >> that is so fascinating, becky. >> it's a great deal i did this last weekend, a week and a half ago >> i need to do more investigative work to understand it all it's fascinating >> go to treasury.gov. that's where you can set it up >> we'll talk offline. meantime, we come back, hedge fund ray dalio wl ilbe next. he will tell us where to put
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your money right now we are back right after this ♪♪ care. it has the power to change the way we see things. ♪♪ it inspires us to go further. ♪♪ it has our back. and goes out of its way to help. ♪♪ when you start with care, you get a different kind of bank. truist. born to care.
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stock futures plunging, oil falling. stay-at-home stocks up after moderna replicated all the concerns you told us about yesterday morning. >> we will talk about what else could be at play get a stock outlook. bridgewater associate's founder ray dalio is our special guest after pressure from activist elliot management, jack dorsey
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stepped down as the ceo of twitter. we will talk about that move and what it means for if platform and what his successor brings to the table. the second hour of "squawk box" begins right now > , good morning, welcome back to "squawk box" right here on cnbc him i'm andrew ross sorkin along with joe kernon and becky quick this morning let's show you u.s. equity futures this hour, because they are down across the board. we are down on the dow now 386 points down on the s&p 500 about 43 points, looking down at the nasdaq off about 97 points now, breaking news, in the last hour, regeneron saying preliminary tests say an anti-body drug cocktail loses its effect against omicron, dow jones saying separate testing
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from eli lilly indicates it also isn't as effective against the new variant. the findings are early results of the race to try to assess the impact of the variant. meanwhile, oxford university saying there is no evidence so far the vaccines will not provide high level protection against severe disease from omicron and the necessary tools and processes are in place, they say, for rapid development of an updated covid-19 vaccine fit should be necessary. so lots of news, conflicting in many ways this morning as well, before all of this moved lower in futures seemed to come, i have a report in the ft, an interview with moderna ceo that said he expected vaccine efficacy to drop against omicron and "squawk" viewers he told us the same thing at about 7:00 a.m. yesterday >> all this new variant efficacy and we should know that in around two weeks given the last mutation, it is
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foreseeable the vaccine all of efficacy is going down we need to wake up and find out if this is true and how much sit going down >> he said it would take several weeks to gather more data about the vaccine efficacy so a lot to chew on this morning. the market trying to assess it and what j. powell may or may not do, guys >> i think there may be a bigger reason if the federal reserve is looking at it, the market knows the playbook for what they will do and make sure things are very liquid if that's the case and based on the comments, that is not going to be the case they're more concerned about inflation and people won't be showing up for work because of concerns of some new variant, that that can lead to the supply chain and inflation f. they tighten on target what they said or at faster pace, that can be a bigger concern for the markets
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that's what we're seeing today near term concerns, long-term concerns, we definitely shouldn't overlook how amazing the technology is and how quickly you can adjust a code on an mrna vaccine. but you got to do it then you got to get the structuring. certainly, think about what we used to do you know, remember when the old vaccines, you do the attenuated viral. we hope there is no live ones in there. >> it will take years. >> a simeon virus was in the polo vaccine, it was unable to infect human cells we got lucky with that for a long time, we didn't know, remember when you caught non-a/non-b hepatitis c. 23 didn't know how to test they were so far ahead on so many fronts that we ought to be able to, if we take a little bit
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longer-term perspective, maybe we shouldn't be. again, you do have policy-makers that as we said yesterday, sometimes they shoot first and aim later and ask questions later. so they may shut things down, which would hurt numbers and economic growth and things like that it may not be based on any good rationale. >> it's hard to think about shutting down. we watch europe do it. >> we're sitting here with a mask mandate again >> the mask mandate is not shutting down. >> it's a quick reaction to some cases in south africa. >> it's a simple, painless sort of thing if that keeps you from actually shutting down, that doesn't seem like a good deal. >> all those kids in school in new york city. >> they have been wearing masks anyway. >> kids are way better wearing masks than adults are. they have to do this every day they are much more grown up than the rest of us are
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meantime, yesterday, the cdc strengthened its recommendation on covid booster shots, a concern about the new variant rather than saying you are allowed to, earlier this month, the cdc said everyone may get a shot and only people over age 50 should get that shot separately, a source tells nbc news, pfizer intends to apply for boosters for teenagers ages 16 and 17. the shot is already approved for everyone age 18 and older, 16 and 17-year-olds kind of fell between the cracks on this they aren't authorized for boosters at this point they addressed the omicron in a news conference saying he did not believe there would be a feed for more lockdowns. >> this variant is a cause for concern. not a cause for panic. we have the best vaccine in the world. the best medicines, the best scientists and we're learning more every single day. and we'll fight this variant
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with scientific and knowledgeable actions and speed, not chaos and confusion. we have more tools today to fight the variant than we've ever had before. from vaccines to boosters, to vaccines for children, five years and older and much more. >> the president defended his restriction of travel from south african nations saying it will buy us more time to get more people vaccinated. >> i was quickly looking up. i didn't realize that some cardiac surgery is elective. i mean i was thinking, okay, i can't get my eyes done now in new york state okay that's a problem i can't get my eyes done but with the governor not allowing anyone -- that's not what this is about there are elective surgeries >> are heart surgeries serious >> some is elective if you haven't had a heart attack but do you really think that
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that is what we need to be doing right now? no elective surgery in new york state? it's not how there might be overreach with people. >> that can be a problem, i would agree with that. >> so we have to think about that when we say, the cause for concern but not panic. well, that's not what you see when sometimes you go straight to the panic if you are in charge because you want to cover your rear end. >> how do you feel about stopping flights, disallowing people coming back to the united states from some of these south african nations unless you have a u.s. passport? >> i mane, i don't know what the politically correct thing to say is about coming from southern africa >> people push back. >> you got to trade very lightly. i prefer not to have this thing come in here in droves so i don't know. >> it makes sense, if you will do it, you shouldn't say only if you don't have a u.s. passport
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>> it's a politically charged since trump did it right at the very beginning i don't know what -- >> if it gives you more time. >> let's plump dom chu and give him this problem you are in charge, dom i think you ought to stick with this morning's market movers >> i don't think i can solve the issues given my mark minute update for you guys. to your point, there are so many unknowns, the market is trying to handicap this in real time, for those listeners who have been with us or what were with us on black friday about the time, the dow was implied roughly lower about 8 to 900 points if memory serves correctly. we're down 375 to 400. black friday sell-off flight a lot of the reason why is because we are trying to figure out whether or not there will be a more pronounced impact president biden said no lockdowns for now. that sort of thing happening
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so take a look at the reactions. we are seeing them they are not as dramatic as on friday the ten-year yield note off 2.45%. brent crude futures down 3%. gold comex off a half a percent. bitcoin below 57 thousand at one point. take a look at the stock action we're seeing, yes, the travel and leisure names are taking a hit. expedia down 3%. carnival down 2.5% united down 2% darden down 1.18%. eog down 2.5%. with regard to the vaccine milwaukeers, moderna is off 4% pfizer is up 1%. biontech off 6.5%. novavax up 6% as well. taking a look at the j.p. morgan
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chase's bank of america of the world. each up 1.5% citigroup as well. becky, financials in focus with j. powell and treasury secretary janet yellen >> with the ten-year under pressure as well when we come back, we will speak to bridgewater founder and investment officer ray dal yoav this break before we head to break, dow futures indicated down 350 pointssh believe it or fought, that is some improvement from where we were an hour ago. nasdaq off by 85 "squawk box" will be right back.
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welcome back to "squawk box. looking to the lessons of history for hipts of the future, our next guest, the latest principal, bridgewater's founder and coach, ray dalio joins us. dalio's new books principles for understanding a changing world order. it is out now. you have looked at empires on the way up and on way down over many centuries in this book. you have also looked at the different metrics with which to think about all this so i am hoping you can
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contextualize the moment where in today we're looking at history. >> yeah. the same things happen over and over you can't understand today without understanding the patterns and lessons of history. so i needed to do this from my own investing. there were three big things that caught my attention and never happened in my lifetime before, but happened many times in history before then two others that became apparent well, first. the financial, what does it mean to try to raise living standards by producing a lot of debt in printing money how does that move through the system second, the internal order and disorder and when you have large wealth gaps and political gaps and when the causes that are behind are more important than the system, the system is in jeopardy that internal conflict the third is the rise in the form of china.
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we go back in history. we see how the great power conflict is important. the fourth which i only really discovered in the book is these once in 100 year type of nature events, pandemics, floods, and droughts have killed more people than wars. then what comes through in the study of history is the power of inventiveness, human adaptation and so what we see this playing out every day in the form of the battle, for example, between nature and technology and only by seeing those patterns and then understanding that could i be able to tell what's happening now. because you see that almost every subject that you are talking about is in one of those five categories and its how they relate together so when we think about vaccines now, for example, we know what monetary policy
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will be as a result of that. we know what impact that will have on the market as a result of that, only by seeing that dynamic over a period of history could i deal with what's going on now >> great it's a fascinating book. i learned so many things, it's very hard to put a coherent narrative together that really takes you through, you know, many centuries and provide sort of a frame to look at all this, considering that framework and considering the sort of nature pandemic issue you are talking about. also what you think the fed invariably has to do what do you think today that you invariably have to do? i think for right now for a lot of investors, that is an open question >> i don't think it's much question, what happens is, if the pandemic comes along and we have the associated economic problems with it, the fed will print money and because if they
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don't, we'll have a political clash and so they'll produce money and credit, the central government will send out checks in the same way. that will reverberate in the society the same way you can't raise living standards by raising the amount of money and credit in the system that's more money chasing the same goods that will be the dynamic it will affect financial marks in ways that we've seen. it will also, of course, affect the inflation rate it won't raise living standards in an important way. because as i say, it gets more money. so there is that dynamic that will have political consequences we are seeing that now as inflation then begins to bite. it has political consequences. so it's that dynamic what i'm trying to convey in the book and in the way that i'm thinking, i'm not ideological.
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i'm just mechanical. i just want to show the cause/effect relationships that repeat over and over and over in history. and that's, you know, that's it. there is a chapter in the book which is about the value of money and how that works through the centuries, through time. it's the same thing. what we're seeing now happen has played out many, many times in history. it's like watching the movie over again, that's what i wanted to pass along. >> jray, if you are j. powell an trying to weigh inflation on one side, employment on the other. you see supply chain problems coming, especially with this new variant on one end, you are trying to solve for the employment side of this, what do you do you keep printing? because printing might create more inflation >> yes look let's be clear there is the perspective of what an individual should do and then there is the perfect spective te
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policy-maker will do he will be caught between a rock and a hard place and the politics that exist at this time mean that just imagine an economic downturn. we're at each other's throats and under now when we have all this money and credit come out, it's almost a sugar high just imagine if we have an economic downturn what that would mean and play that through? it's almost the type of civil war between different kind of state rights and so on, so forth. so the situation that we're in, which has happened repeatedly is that there is not enough money around the only way you get the money is to tax it and then when you tax it, then people get, they don't like it, so the easiest thing to do is to print money
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and to produce money and credit. so we can expect that thing to happen so just as an investor, i have to sit here and i think, what is my next move and how do i, what do i play with that? for example, real interest rates will come down that would be good for inflation index bonds, by way of example, so, anyway, what i am trying to convey is that mechanism and we got ourselves into the circumstance because we didn't have to handle the fundamentals the best possible way. let's talk about what good fundamentals are good fundamentals are that you earn more than you spend and that you have therefore a good income statement and balance sheet. you do that by being productive and you also have internal cooperation, competition and so on in a healthy way to make you more productive and you don't have those political problems. but you see repeatedly in history, this arc, where that
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when you have this confluence of things happening together, you have the dynamic so what i just wanted to convey and i need it. i wrote this, i did this research for myself to make these investment decisions, what i needed to do was to see the mechanics of that. that's what i'm conveying, yes, there is a rock and a hard place. >> ray, in terms of bottom lining it, for those in the audience this morning, beyond thinking about whether they should be invested in the market, putting more money in the market i'm thinking equities right now, taking money out of the market, how do you value this market today? >> i think that just the way you said it is going to be a fool's journey. to say, here's the stockmarket and i'm going to time the movement into the market and i'm going to time the movement out of the market. you know who that means. okay
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will you outguess what the next variant move is and what the next other thing a lot of things depend on a lot of other things and the world and everything readjusts what has to happen, i think, is investors, most importantly, have to realize two things first, that cash is not a safe investment it is not a safe place because it will be taxed by inflation. there will not be an interest rate that will anywhere near compensate it seems good because it's not volatile you are paying a tax of a few percent a year on that a, stay out of that, b, know how to balance a portfolio. because the way portfolios work, it's almost like, for some part, something happens. another thing happens. in other words, what you can see in the markets today is that let's say when equities go down, because growth expectations falter and there is a greater
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likelihood of easing then you see the bond market go up you see other markets gold you see, watch the market action every day and you could see those relationships. wealth is not destroyed as much as it is transferred if you know how to balance those investments, we do it in what we call an all weather portfolio. but if you know how to balance those investments, that's the most important thing being in a safe-well-balanced portfolio. you can reduce your risk without reducing your return will you not market time this. because even you were a great market timer, the things that are happening can change the world so it changes what should be priced into the markets >> hey,ray,one of the things you do write about is china. some would argue, you have a generous or more sim pa theting view to china than some of the hawks, if you will, about china. you think of this inevitability
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to the transfer of wealth of sorts? >> well, okay. two things, china transfer of wealth i just know china very well and i come as a perspective with a perspective as an investor i have been going there since 1984 i have, i know leaders and i know hoy they're hinking i know the moves that they're making in a detailed way and i'm just trying to share what that perspective is because i think a lot of people make stereotypical moves and i think you have to really understand, first thing you have to understand, because it has been a remarkably successful place, since i started going there in 1984, per capita has increased by 26 times and so on. so to not understand it or to approach it with a great biased is a great disservice. okay in terms of the element of let's say a transfer of let's call it
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common prosperity. yes. there is a world in this world right now, there is a move to common prosperity. i think that that move, what does it mean at a technical level let's not take your money. but here, i would say or call progressives here are much more left than we would call progressives or whatever the chinese policies are doing yes, world wide, there has to be common prosperity or let's call it broad prosperity and the question is whether that's going to come by productivity or not it doesn't mean that you are going to have like a communism that's going to take all of that there will be a lot of productivity in china. so then diversifying the portfolio, you know, you look at the united states elsewhere, you have to diversify. >> one of the quick questions about china, though, is clearly the human rights issues. there is yes, sir about this
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chinese tennis player feng shuai and jack ma, how do you think of that piece of it as it relates to that question there >> i can't be an expert in those types of things. what i am basically doing, for 50 years, i invest all over the world. i look to whatever the rules are. if the government has a policy that i should do a certain thing and so on, but i can't be an expert in all of those particular dynamics of that. i really have no idea. so the guidance of the you know government is the most important thing. these are political. it's like, then i look at the united states and i say well what's going on in the united states and should i not invest in the united states, because other things and our hone human rights issues or other things i'm not trying to make political comparisons. i am basically just trying to follow the rules, understand what's going on and invest
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properly behind those rules. >> you recognize, i think what's going on in the united states, there are things i don't agree with, you don't agree with i think those things are different than the things we see happening in china people aren't, the government isn't disappearing people, for example. okay look, you want to get into the policy disappearing people i'll give a little bit of a perspective of that. okay what they have is an autocratic system and one of the leaders described it he said, that the united states is a country of individuals and individual im. and that's what it's about he said, in china, it's an extension of the family. he said, if you look at the word country in china, it consists of two characters state, family. and that has to do with
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confusion and it's very much the top down as a top-down country, what they're doing is it's that kind of of like a strict parent they behave like a strict parent they go through that that is their approach we have our approach but that's a question, so, the notion of whatever they're doing in terms of calling in people and then behaving in a certain way, that's their approach if i pick that evaluated all approaches around the world, in all countries, i'd be in a bind to try to find out you know where do i invest and so on? it's not just by domain and i'll leave it to the government to make those decision and that's my bake approach i have a job to do and you know that's all i'm trying to do it consistent with the rules and i can't say that, it's like with kids in watching video games their approach is, we don't want
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our kids to watch these trashy video games x-amount so we will control the type of games and how many hours it is in the united states that we would believe that the most people would believe it's a parental/student position. i can't tell you which is better but one thing i can tell you is in this competition, the only thing, most important thing that will matter is how strong we are. okay and so, if we can be -- if we can earn more than we spend and be productive and be good with each other and don't have a conflict that undermines us. then we will be strong so it's a competition between systems and that i think most importantly let's students think what are right to make us strong and effective in that competition. >> i want to thank you this morning. congratulations on the new book. it's calls principles for understanding a change world order. it is out now. joe. coming up, jack dorsey is
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stepping down. check out some of the stay-at-home stocks, futures down sharply on scarriant concerns, omicron concerns "squawk box" will be right back. ♪ ♪
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♪ (sha bop sha bop) ♪ ♪ are the stars out tonight? (sha bop sha bop) ♪ ♪ ♪ alexa, play our favorite song again. ok. ♪ i only have eyes for you ♪
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breaking news, in the last hour, regeneron says preliminary tests indicate that its covid antibody drug cocktail loses effectiveness against the variant omicron. dow jones says a separate cocktail from eli lilly indicates it also is not as effective against the new variant. regeneron shares down 2.5% the findings are early results, though, of researchers assessing the impact of this new variants and regeneron ceo dr. leonard schleifer will join us in the next hour on this ws anend much more, "squawk box" is coming right back
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. let's get a check on futures. we have been under pressure all morning long at points we were down more than 400 points for the dow dow futures 364. s&p futures off 42 the nasdaq down about 90 when we come back, morgan stanley's xheef economic strategist mike wilson will join
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us let's look at the names in the free market. into it is the biggest declineer right now off by 3.5%. moderna down 3.27% dollar tree and regeneron off rehamo tn 2% "squawk box" will be right back. zbl ♪♪ this flag isn't backwards. it's facing this way because it's moving forward. ♪♪ just like the men and women who wear it on their uniforms and the country it represents. they're all only meant to move one direction
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welcome back to "squawk box. the futures improve from the
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worst levels that which saw earlier in the session, pre-mark session. they're down well above 400, now down to 350. but it is a reversal from yesterday's bounce from friday's big selloff. joining us from morgan stanley, mike, it's episodic when we have you on it's almost like i'm waiting for the in you ozark season. it's not a new season really, it's definitely the last episode looked like three months away. i will try to summarize your viewpoint and put it into perspective. you did start to think that things were in place for maybe some type of a pullback. the market hasn't really gotten way out ahead of you but it has continued to move higher i don't know what do you need? i mean, you got inflation. you've got you know growth concerns you've got a new variant
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you got everything and it still seems to resist coming back down to where you thought maybe it needed a pullback. what is it going to take and are things starting to set themselves up for the eventual where you are absolutely right about what you were saying i know it's a long question. you see what i am getting at >> it completely is justified. our fundamental view has been correct. we mentioned inflation, out of bounds central bank is tightening what people expected earnings revisions have rolled over revision factors are coming down all the things are in place. we did have a correction in september. we acknowledged in early october, that was probably going to be it we had a seasonal bounceback it didn't change our fundamental view that is clear look, nobody can predict the stockmarket week-to-week, month to month, but our fundamental process suggests the risk-reward is not as good as a year ago,
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it's pretty on there are some people suggesting it is. i think that's incorrect now, we talked about s&p 500, obviously, that's done very well a part of our kale here is there would be a huge rotation towards large cap quality and s&p 500 happens to be the highest quality index in the world along with the nasdaq. that's one of the reasons, the russell 2,000, the index has been unfavorable on since march has gone nowhere i think that's really the story, there are many companies executing really well and it can be larger cap high quality stocks and those have done well and then there is a whole host of companies, the average stock has not done that well it's a difficult operating factor i think that's the main point of our outlook is that operating viernlt for the average company remains difficult in the next 12 months now you have financial conditions probably tightening it's not the end of the world. we want to fix stocks. we want to find things in that
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environment where we've had pretty good success. >> we are below -- do you have a 2022 mid-year target for the s&p? we are at 46 and change. do you think there will be a chance to buy this market at 4,000, for example, on the s&p or below >> look, i think that itself the right way to think about it, joe. is nobody can identify an exact point in time where the markets will trade what i would suggest to your viewers is you should expect more volatility. november is a great example a. great start. and basically out of nowhere that is kind of what you expect. take your shots when things are down and then don't get so greedy when things look like they're perfect. it's not the right approach right now. our range for the s&p 500 is 3900 is our bare case, 5,000 our bull case. that's a wide range to think about when adding risks and reducing risks more importantly, joe, i want to
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re-emphasize, it's not about stock or who can execute in this environment that's difficult >> so, mike, you don't necessarily think there is some massive speculative bubble that's manifested in a lot of different areas and that, you know, really, you know, storied stocks, the ones that we love that used to be at 50 and are at 450 now. you don't think there is a huge come up and in the future for nfts, for arc, for, you know, all the things that we think of that are characterize risk-on, you don't think this fed induced bubble will take stocks down 20% at some point? 25%? that's not in the cards? >> well, we've seen that already, joe, this year. right, we've seen a lot of high
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flying parts of the market that flop a lot of things are down 30, 40, 50% at times that speaks as to what you just said i think there is a massive bubble here. the number also are usually good we're accelerating our secular bull cage. the earnings have been spectacular. so there is a good story underlined, underpitting this movement i think there is some speculation going on that's going to get rung out? absolutely that's a part of our big call next year to be clear is valuations will normal lies. we're looking for valuations just normalized. if that happens, at the index level, you got to believe the high calling parts we can all speculate like we were speculating on the upside that's how i want to be careful about valuations you like the stories out there you need to be attendant to paying for those risk
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assetstive that's the main point. >> great thanks, mike i know, i feel like i have a good idea. we'll see you again for season i don't know season 9. i hate when things get tamped on that won't happen with you thanks. >> that does make a lot of sense. i get it when we come back, after turning around twitter six years ago, jack dorsey has stepped down as ceo. we will talk about the move. pressure on the company from ccliot management and his suessor right after this "squawk box" will be right back. your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates
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we have a big part of the move leslie joins us. >> the management changes, twitter was two years at least in the making. if you are headed by managing partner jesse cohn they have been trying to remove jack dorsey that his time was too stressful. elliot went so far to nominate directors. ultimately, they settled, adding cope and others to the board dorsey was able to keep his job, at least in the short term i was reading through an 8k from march of 2020 and at the time
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they agreed to form a five-person community to focus on the leadership structure, including the ceo's succession plan and corporate governance practices. a part of the settlement welliot. in june of this year, cohn stepped down from the twitter board. it's unclear how much elliot beneficially owned at this time. reportedly, the firm had been buying on a summertime dip in a statement, con applauded the move this was yesterday, saying the firm's quote collaboration with jack and the company for the past two years has been productive and effective he goes on to say, having gotten to know both the incoming brett taylor and ceo parag agrawal, we are sure they are the pivotal leaders. elliot's stakes became public under performing the market by about 16 percentage points andrew >> so, leslie, let's try to cut
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through it so jack dhar disays he's resigning -- dorsey says he's resigning, elliot seams to be saying something else. which is it? >> it's probably a combination of both if i were to guess here, you know, given that that settlement also encompasses a special committee on the board that has to be constantly reassessing leadership, making sure things are on the line. that is a lot of scrutiny for a ceo, much more than your average company. so when you have that in place, yes, he got to keep his job in the short run, there was this extra focus on his leadership style and corporate governance, you can see the company through this pandemic, not that we're by any means on the other side, things are at least stabilized from an investor's stand point programs they both agreed it was time for a change there. >> leslie picker, owning the activist feed, great to see you,
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thanks for more on dorsey's exit and replacement, we are joined right now by sarah fisher. axios's media reporter this news kind of did hit people as a surprise yesterday. then they trade to figure out what this is going to mean for the company. initially, the stock was up 11%. it ended up closing down 3% on this i guess the question becomes what is next for twitter, especially when we have seen the changes that that i have plan ed like we saw that stock go up and down, because people at first were excited there is a new ceo coming in, i was getting texts from employees inside twitter saying they were relieved to have a ceo that wasn't a part-time ceo. once the investors saw the person replacing jack dorsey was an insider, you started to see concern. they put together aggressive metrics they want to hit, 315 million daily active users by
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2023 and they're only at 2011 right now. i think the concern here, becky, is whether or not this new ceo, an insider is going to be able expedite growth better than management could previously over the past two years. >> investors have taken issue with this company. they wanted them to come up with new ways to make money to bring in new revenue more quickly. that's always been the push and pull with investors and with jack dorsey. >> it has been, in the past, we put pressure on twitter to improve it's advertising model, putting pressure on it to bring in more direct response ads, not just working with the big brands, following the footsteps of google and facebook what twitter has done making investors sort of happy, look, we will take a different approach we will improve our ad product we will move into subscriptions behind the pay wall, making it possible for people to pay for exclusive contact from freighters i think one thing investors will be worried about is whether or
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not that is a sizable business model for twitter. twitter do a follow feature, becky. the company said only i think 6,000-something dollars. it wasn't a lot of money for twitter it becomes is this new revenue feasible to hit its revenue target in they want to be at 6 or 7 billion by 20s 23 that's a long way from where they are right now. >> i was going to ask, is it no longer to reach the aggressive goals by 2023 or investors don't think they are likely to hit those metrics? >> i think it's a little of both one, those are indishes. two, look at twitter's competitors. snap chanapchat is rolling out n augmented version of the metaverse. facebook said we will report a new segment based off of hardware in addition to
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advertising. twitter is still really small compared to its competitors. it doesn't have a brand vision i think what competitors were looking for is a new ceo going to come in and bring this sparkling new vision to this company that gives us hope and optimism one day it can compete by bringing in an insider whose focus on the new project and centralization i think there is a little concern after there is not a lot of new life feed to bring into the company to get it there. >> one of the things dorsey says he is stepping down, the founder eventually becomes a weakness, if you don't have them stand on their own feet it's kind of strange to think about when you realize that brett taylor is the president of salesforce he's the chairman of the company now. that's also a founder life company. do you think this is a knock on founderlife companies? do you think there are other questions about them >> i think square is a founderlife company. the founder and leader is jack dorsey so that's an interesting
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statement on his end but i think he makes a point you know, you want to make sure companies have longevity i think that's what they want to see here i think there is something to be said, having the founder in there brings a level of passion to the company that somebody is not bounding it, i see his point. i think in this particular case, square is doing so well with his founder losing it. i can't say it won't be the same for other companies. >> sarah thanks for your time today. >> thank you when we come back, we will thfe inflation e d and governor's response to omicron with senator pat toomey
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they were set to go out on the futures of the omicron variant. new this morning, regeneron saying the cocktail is less effective against the new variant. we will speak first with rejen ron's ceo. we will learn more what fed chair j. powell and janet yellen think about the twist and senate banking ranking member pat toomey will join us ahead of a
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key hearing in congress. the final hour of"squawk box" begins right now ♪ good morning, welcome back to "squawk box" here on cnbc live from the nasdaq market veith on time's square i al am joe kernon, along with becky quick and andrew ross sorkin u.s. equities are down, live resuming after a weak rebound yesterday. but it was a rebound and further yields also a feature. we're nowhere near the recent highs on yields of 1-7 we are down to 1.439 becky and andrew, it made me
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think, stalk all about it. remember he said it this way remember the fed-ex commercial, the guy says something then the fed-ex goes, didn't i just say that yeah, but i said it this way. >> nothing in print. >> it's in the print >> that's exactly what he told us he put it in print is that what's really causing it >> i think a lot of this, the comments we're anticipating from the federal reserve chief j. powell at 10:00 a.m. we have been talking about those comments and anticipate. and the fed is not as accommodative as in the past when we seenthe delta variant or the original coronavirus. that could explain the skittishness of course, those comments from moderna's ceo, he expects vaccines to be less effective against the omicron virus, that's what he told us 24 hours ago on this program. we got word from regeneron about
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the cocktail and omicron, that news hasn't been better. meg tirrell joins us with a wrap-up of all news taking place. >> reporter: hi, guys, i agree, i don't think the world has changed about what we know of the likely effectiveness of the vaccines and drugs against omicron. we heard yesterday about this. i think we have a clip which we can play here. >> if you look at the new virus, the mutation and many more on the spike. so, we anticipate there will be a loss of efficacy to prevent disease. >> reporter: so he says we anticipate there will be a loss of vaccine efficacy to prevent disease. we heard the same thing from the ceo of pfizer who said he does not expect the efficacy of omicron will be 95%. importantly, what we heard from both ceos is a plan the companies have in place to get this variant, get the data
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within about two weeks how well the vaccines should hold up and use that information to decide on their strategies. already, they started designing new vaccines targeting omicron specifically and whether booster doses, moderna doubled the dose of the careered booster dose could be enough here meanwhile, regeneron putting out a press release essentially confirming what we had been hearing from dr. scott gottlieb and scientist jesse blum regeneron saying there is no data yet definitively to say modeling suggests if anti-body drugs may lose their variant, a large collection, some of which entered the clinic some of the next generation anti-bodies may retain activity of concern over the next month, they expect further data as we thought yesterday, there is much concern about the effect
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that this variant will have on vaccines and antebody drugs. but the companies are working on it >> that's an important point, too, regeneron are down 2.5% there is a concern it's important they are working on next generation stuff for this we still don't know the details of how much their effectiveness they would lose. you are talking from coming down from incredibly high levels, north of 90% cutting down the people that go to the hospital or die from this yeah, absolutely what we are hearing there may be protection from vaccines or severe disease the question we will have to wait for epidemiological data from the real world of be right backthrough and the like the antibody drug regeneron holds up against the delta
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variant in the united states right now. there is an important message if fix get sick and they're eligible for these antibody drugs, they will still work. for the vast majority of people here in the united states. then, of course, we have merck drug going in front of the fda today. the anti-viral drugs from merck and pfizer not expected for omicron, some optimism in here as well. >> thanks very much, mech. great to see you by the way, folks, stay tuned for a special interview with rejen ron ceo leonard schleifer. a little under 90 minutes now until the opening bell and dom my chu joins us with the stocks impacted. >> so, joe, some of the push and pull the cross current that meg tirrell was addressing with regard to the effectiveness, the hospitalization rates, the drugs versus vaccine anti-bodies is playing out to a price discovery in the market this morning
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you can signedr kind of see that with the more muted moves we've seen with the sell-off on friday and the bounceback yesterday so the stay-at-home stocks are the ones in focus today. they are generally positive. zoo him is up, not that much one and three-quarters percent etsy up 1% similar for net flex, docusign, peloton. some we associate with stay-at-home, upside moves there, also watching what's happening with the stalled reopening trait stocks those ones that tend to do well when the economy is in full swing. that sort of thing again, norwegian is down 2% wip resorts down 2% as well, similar for simon properties, physical mall retail could be affected halliburton down there one trend to keep an eye on is whether or not the markets have been handicapping or
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anticipating this slow-down trade happening. small caps as represented by this ticker iwm versus the invesco qqq trust. you can kind of see there a big divergence happening over the course of the last few weeks here investors piling into the large growth names as a possible insulator versus small cap stocks as we do often, a check on the most popular tickers from yesterday's full session maybe no surprise that moderna was on the top of that list near the top of that list moderna down 2.5%. tesla, twitter on the ceo change news there apple, walt disney, hit heing 52-week low, andrew, yesterday's ession, we seen cramer's investing club did buy shares keep a close eye on disney, the top ten are on my twitter feed at the domino. back over to you. >> thank you, mr. domino we had another big market
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take this morning. bridgewater's ray dalio in the last your underlined as he sees as foolishness to tame timing the exit point, it's like trying to guess what the next covid-induced market will be he reminded investor two things, first have a balanced portfolio, second, say no to cash >> cash is not a safe investment it's not a safe place. because it will be taxed by inflation. there will not be an interest rate anywhere near will compensate it seems because it's not volatile that you are paying a tax of a few% percent a year on that a, stay out of that. >> dalio replicated something he has been saying on our air quite some time, cash is trash eventually it is taxed, inflation is the tax i suggest we watch the 6:00 hour about ibonds, that was a
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fascinating way to solve the problem. meantime, when we come back, a lot more coming up on "squawk box. a key appearance in congress today by fed chair j. powell and janet yellen it's made more by the emergence of the new strain of the coronavirus. after a break, we will then speak with pennsylvania senator pat toomey we will head to that break an important note, don't miss the next edition of cnbc.com pro talks tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern time, sarah eisen will speak with chkaty katy wood you don't want to miss it. "squawk" returns after this. >> feel stuck with student loan debt? move to sofi and feel what it's like to get your money right. (phone chimes) ♪ ♪
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where's mom? she said she would be home in time for the show. don't worry sweetie, she promised she'd be here for it. oh! nice shot! thanks! glad we have xfinity.
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with wifi speeds faster than a gig. me too. [claps] woah! look! [chuckles] mom is on tv! she's amazing! [screams and laughter] yeah! xfinity brought us together after all. get started with xfinity internet and ask about wifi speed fast than a gig. click, call or visit a store today. . welcome back to "squawk box. the futures down 376 points on the dow. the s&p pulling back to the tune of about 42. the treasury yields moving down. check out some of the big banks this morning others in the red, you can see all down anywhere between 1 and 2% for a variety of reasons i am sure >> part of that being the lower ten-year yield, too. that affecting the financials
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pretty significantly last friday treasury secretary janelle yellen and chair j. powell are set to testify this morning. powell says the recent rise in covid cases and the emergence of the omicron variant pose downside risks to employment and economic activity and increased uncertainty for inflation. joining us to talk more about it is republican pat toomey he's the lead republican on the senate banging committee senator, we've had some conversations today about how those prepared statements could be a part of the reason you are seeing pressure on equities today an on bond yields, too look, it sounds like j. powell is saying no matter what happens the last playbook may not be this time around he sounds much more about inflation at this point. >> becky, i certainly hope so let's face it. we have been pursuing a monetary policy persistent with a dire emergency. i get why we started massive bond buying in march of 2020,
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when our financial markets were freezing up and the economy was falling off a cliff. i guess it that was almost two years ago. we have had a tremendous expansion since then the bond buying should have ended a year ago yet, here we are buying mortgage backs of all things when housing crisis have gone through the roof one of the thing i am encouraged, quite frankly, is recent comments by share j. powell he says certainly the risk is greater and inflation will be higher and more durable. look, they have been wrong for a long time, the fed in their stills of what inflation would be it's running much hotter than they expected. maybe their modems aren't really so great maybe it will be here for longer than they expected if they don't do something to normalize the process. >> chairman powell has been renominated by president biden even though some senators won't vote for him senator, are you planning to
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vote for him >> i am. i said so publicly i have strong disagreements with chair powell and his colleagues by the way with respect to monetary poleicy. that is a big deal the question about this post, it's not a referendum it's a choice. i think the alternative would be more dovish. i think he acknowledged it's running hotter than acceptable i would argue, it's not just about policy i think his cooperation as we developed the cares act kass very, very solid i think he has taken a thoughtful approach to the regulatory role is a part of who the fed does i also happen to think i could be mistaken. i think there is a chance over the next tenure, the fed will decide whether or not, probably decide, to, developing the digital dollar and how that's done is extremely important.
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i think he would provide a really buffer leadership in that record so for all those reasons and others, i would be supporting that >> what questions do you have for him and secretary janet yellen >> the main one is the da paradigm they've established to allow inflation to exceed the 2% target by some undefined amount and will let it do that for an undetermined period and say it's transitory which guarantees you will be behind the curve so my questions are, are you re-thinking your models that have been so badly wrong what would it take to decide to accelerate to normal by which i mean elimination of bond buying and something approaching at least near zero, where we have negative interest rates for now. you know, what are they thinking about the in fact the data is
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coming in differently than they expected are they willing to turn this battleship, which i acknowledge is difficult to turn i think they need to do it secretary yellen, a couple different questions. one is, you know, the centerpiece of their international tax plan is this agreement with all the other countries in the world that they all get to tax american companies and take some revenue that currently goes to the u.s. treasury it's in place of a digital services pack. this is pillar one of their two-pillar multi-national regime the fact is that requires treaties and a treaties ratification requires a two-thirds vote in the senate. i raised this with secretary yellen they haven't said how they're going to get it through the senate in the first place. so that's one item another you'd like to ask her about is the repeat president's working group on stable coins,
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which had some sort of eyebrow raising provisions in my mind, one of which was to suggest that all issuers of all stable coins that are stable relative to a fiat currency have to be deposittory institutions that's a little counterbutintuiv for me lots of questions, not a lot of time. >> watching inflation, it's been a huge concern of yours. it's been a huge concern for savers, too. >> yeah. >> people that have put money aside have gotten penalized. earlier, we were talking about an investment. if you worry about ibonds, inflation bonds the government sells. they're fully backed by the treasury they've got a run right now because their index to cpi of 7.12% on an annualized basis there is a 10,000 limit on that. what do you think about the investment any chance you would push for
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that little to get raised? >> to raise the threshold for -- >> for how much you can put into it >> yeah, look, i'm opened to all kind of investment vehicles that will allow someone to hedge the risk of inflation in their portfolio. as you know, there is lots of ways to do it. real assets, precious metals, many equities will do well in an inflationary environment here's my concern. it's the 40% of americans who don't have any investments the purported goal of helping employment and presumably helping working class folks, what's happening to them right now is setting them backwards, because the costs of the things they buy is growing faster than their wages. so every day this continues that we wait in the hope this is all transitory, working class americans are set back that's my biggest concern. >> it does sound like j. powell, though, in his prepared marks is much more concerned about it, too, saying it's run beyond 2% longer and hotter than they'd
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like it to >> as i said at the beginning, i find that encouraging, that he is acknowledging that there is a problem here and the, you know, hopefully, the follow-up to that is to do something about it. >> you think he had to wait until we got renominated to be able to do the >> i don't know. i really think he's trying to do what he thinks is right. let's face it, the consensus of fed economists is this is all fine and going away, so it's not as though he was trying to drag the institution somewhere else i think arguably he's trying to drag the stinstitution to realie how far off it's been. >> you have been fiscally conservative where would you say your level lies at this point if you put it on a scale from one to ten >> well, i would say it depends a lot on whether our democratic colleagues pass this monstrous spending spree they want to continue with this unprecedented new bill that will clearly make
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this much worse. the spending is heavily weighted in the early years it's meant to go on permanently. in the statute for budgetery gimmicks, it's heavily weighted in the early years revenue is supposed to come in, int latter years they would dramatically increase the size of the deficit in the early years. that increases them on the debt we got to borrow their programs will probably diminish work force participation, lower productivity that's the wharton school has done that analysis not just me. and at the same time they will increase demand. so let's see, you will further crimp supply and boost demand at a time it's extremely high i think it's likely to make things worse i got a pretty high level of concern now. if the democrats have their way, it will get worse. >> senator, we appreciate your time today good luck at the hearings. we'll be watching. we'll talk to you soon >> thanks for having me, becky coming up, what's next for
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twitter? as it moves rapidly into the post-jack dorsey era plus, regeneron ceo will join us fighting the omicron variant of the coronavirus. "squawk box" will be right back. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ your record label is taking off. but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire
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welcome back to "squawk box" this morning virus fears pressuring the
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futures this morning we are off about 395 points on the dow. nasdaq opened down about 90 points s&p 500 up about 44 points take a look, though, at how big tech names are trading right now. we will flip the board around, show you where things are, marginally down, apple, amazon and meta, facebook, all just marginally in the red, becky. >> thanks, andrew. twitter's ceo founder jack dorsey replaced as the head of the platform julia boorstin joins us. she will look at what's next for twitter. >> reporter: with dorsey out the attention turns to the new ceo he's been there since 2017 the question is what are his chances of hitting aggressive targets. in february, twitter says by the end of 2023, they have active
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users into double the total annual revenue from back then. but this past quarter, the company's 211 million daily users was up 13% from a year earlier. it added just 5 million from the prior quarter and twitter didn't add any new users in the u.s. at all. the j&p securities saying quote by appointing its cto, we believe twitter has continuity with it existing product roadmap as it continues to work towards its goal now with twitter shares down about 25% in the past three months, the pressure is on for a handful of new products. the first is topics with engage him enable brands to create more personalized ads then there is also shopping it's the company is investing in ecommerce capabilities and partnered with walmart ahead of the holidays
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finally, twitter blue. that's the company's $3-a-month feature just launched here in the u.s. now agrawal and salesforce president and ceo got a blessing from activist elliot management who said they are the right leaders at this pivotal moment guys, it's hard to overlook all the other things of their rivals such as facebook and snap are doing right now. >> facebook and the parent met surface they told meta it has to sell the gift-sharing platform giphy. the deal could actually harm users and meta says, though, it disagrees with the decision and is considering an appeal >> what is so important is facebook is under regulatory
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pressure not just here in the u.s. but around the world. i think as we wonder what will happen in terms of this anti-trust push for not just facebook but the other tech companies, we should remember when it came to privately legislation, that was really led out of the eu. and we have gdpr, a much more string exhibit privacy legislation out of the eu than in the u.s i think we may see more agg aggressive anti-trust moves coming from the uk and eu than here in the u.s. i think for this particular deal, it's unclear how long facebook would have to sell this asset. it's worth $400 million. it seems like it will be very hard for meta, aka facebook to make any deals at this point big deals. >> our regulators threaten things, the eu and uk can actually do things julia, thank you >> okay. coming up, when we return, how much will the new variant affect the fed's thinking ahead of its
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next meeting we will get into that one. plus, regeneron ceo will join us here to talk to us through how to treat that new variant. as we head to break, check out vaneck semi conductor etf smh. it's tracking best for the year. stay tuned you are watching "squawk" on cnbc
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welcome back to "squawk box" right here on cnbc those fears about the new covid variant weighing on futures this morning, also the expected comments from j. powell who will be speaking at 10:00 a.m. this morning before the senate banking committee. just the idea he is looking at inflation as a bigger problem. watching to see what happens with this covid variant, thinking if that's the case, that could also put additional pressure on the supply chain and, in turn, inflation. that has the markets spooked dow futures down s&p off by 46. the nasdaq down by close to 100 points and treasury yields have come under pressure. if you are watching the ten year, you are seeing it is sitting at 1.427% a. far cry
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from where it was a year-and-a-half ago. yesterday, it was above 1.45%. the stocks have been many of those travel stocks, things like the airlines, american airlines, united those are the ones a little more affected by international travel those are the ones each by more than 2.3%. also what we've referred to as the stay-at-home shocks. you will see right now zoom is up by 1.8% the gains are modest again, you look at the discrimination between stocks stay at home versus the ones seen as reopening plays. andrew >> thanks, becky meantime, as we mentioned a few minutes ago, when we were talking to senator pat toomey. we are likely to learn more about what the fed chair and janet yellen when they testify today in congress to try to get need the fed's thinking a little bit more our own rick leishman and steve santelli steve, the market's in the red this morning, puts pointing
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downweird ahead of this testimony. we can't figure out how much of it is what we think he may say what janet yellen may say or what steven bancel from moderna said yesterday >> yeah, you know, andrew, i was thinking this morning. i don't often have a read of the fed chair that's out of sorts where the market is. i got to say, when you look at the possibilities, the pro probabilities have dialed back i'm not alone in that, city analyst see it as well but the trade in the market, the decline in yield, it started maybe yet 4:30 when powell's notes came out or testimony came out, and it kind of continued all morning. something at midnight i guess with those moderna comments. but it's hard for me not to read these notes and say, you know, powell is looking at this virus
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in a decidedly different way or the next wave here. the idea that perhaps he has to focus more on the inflationary side of this rather than the aggregate demand that can be a different policy depending upon what happens and what the medical experts say is the outlook for this virus >> all right rick, have you the same take we talked to ray dalio, his take seems to be you got to keep printing, printing, printing >> yeah, i don't think the fed chairman, the treasury secretary, i don't think any of them are going to take the road that inflation will be their main concern they won't be able take that road, sorry, they won't. fed fund futures is expressing that we can express this in very simple terms take these 22 fed funds contract, forget all the percentages. let's keep it simple if you are at 100 on that
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contract, that means the fed funds is predicted to be on the last day of next year on zero. so where was it on wednesday's close before omicron and set him at 99.28 it basically expects the fed funds to be at three-quarters of 1% roughly.75 where are they right now 99.50. now they expect them to be at half of 1% so thigh have basically taken out without any information, any scientific information whatsoever one tightening. i think that jay powell will mirror that same sentiment there is no way he is going to start testifying that omicron be damned, he is going to take the road to start making the taper quicker. because he knows inflation by get out of control even though that might be exactly what he's thinking in the end, he's going to have to tip his hat to the unknown. we don't know much
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without knowing much they will heir on the side of cautious it didn't like what it jived with what i heard on our show yesterday. >> okay. rick, steve, we got to leave it there. we will get into more news on the variant and anti-body treatment. joe. >> and andrew, len schleifer will be here and a ph.d. september me an article from the new england journal of medicine he says is really important to put all this no context. i can't wait to talk about it. he's here. regeneron is down today probably not surprisingly, the drug cocktail, anti-body cocktail is not as effective against the variant, eli lilly seeing similar data, probably, len schleifer, it's freight to have you on, founder, ceo of
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rege regeneron. if they won't work well because they aren't specific to omicron, it's not surprising th -- monoclonal anti-bodies either this is what i expect. >> thank you, joe. i love being on with you you guys have realized that if wear going to inform the public, we have to have it based in science. we can't have wild speculations out there. we really have to focus on what we know and can know and get to real data. so far, omicron looks like it is of great concern one has to step back and figure how did we get this omicron? it didn't slowly mutate it looks like to me and to many other scientists, it looks like this is the case where it evo fld in a single immune into compromised individual because if you look at that paper, actually, you were referring to in the new england
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journal. >> right >> it explains how that can happen single >> 152 days the patient had it that was the point i was going to make, len is that we seem to think that if covid is multiplying in all these unvaccinated people, that you are going to get these random mutations what this says to me is that you put it in one single incubator of an immunocompromised person you get multiple variations in that person because of the immune system doesn't get rid of the virus. so 156 days, it happened in one person which makes me think we need to treat immunocompromised persons with anti-bodies to get rid of it it won't happen to vaccinate it f. the variants aren't coming from unvaccinated by immunocompromised, we need therapeutics to not let something fester for 156 days. >> joe, are you spot-on.
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we have to deal -- certain people like to say this is man against virus. but in some respects it's mankind against virus. we're all sort of one org niechl unism and if we have a weak link in the chain because some people unfortunately are having chemo therapy or you know that in the doubting province in south africa the incidence of hiv infection is about 20% so it's not a surprise that in that immunocompromised population that variants are emerging, they're emerging by leapfrog kind of a mutation, not slow evevolution this is going to keep going until we deal with treating everybody, including immuno-compromised we have 5 million immunocompromised people in the united states. we have to deal with that population it won't be omicron or the next letter in the greek alphabet >> that's what i said, we could be immune izing and vaccinating
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people immunopeople don't have the response we need to ramp up therapeutics. how quickly can you or lily or somebody else customize a monoclonal anti-body to a variant? how quickly can we get that rolling? >> so we have been having it rolling for a couple years now which we designed the cocktail to anticipate the changes you should remind viewers, we should all remind the viewers, the monoclonal anti-bodies out there now authorized for the virus circulating in the u.s. works just fine. so we shouldn't abandon that we have to anticipate the next one. omicron is a difficult one to anticipate we've actually thought of a lot of even most of the variations that could occur with omicron. we have another anti-body that looks promising, that's already
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started clinical testing we have probably the largest collection of anti-bodies in the world. we think we will be in this for a long, long time. just like vaccines are going to have to adapt. we will probably constantly have to adapt on monoclonals. we have a large repertoire of them we will have to keep recycling, them, joe. >> it sounds like science and you at regeneron and other companies are on top of all of this you are keep up with every change as it comes and giving us hope i am not sure the authorities are with you yet, though someone who is an active cancer patient, gone through chemo and radiation and when i heard from you last time, when you came on the show and talked about this, i thought how great and fantastic this is. she will be able to get back out there. but these anti-bodies are not approved for cancer patients or immunocompromised people to be taking proactively it's only approved if you are exposed to it or get it.
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and only some of the doctors are even prescribing it when you have been exposed him some of the cancer krrnts are docentres are doing that now when will they say this would be the answer instead of a vaccine to make sure that they don't get it in the first place and they can get back out there and live their lives? >> becky, you've made the speech we have made to the agency and we're in constant contact with them. we've had a request now for nearly six months, maybe a little over. good evening one dated with our recent do you that that suggests for the current circulating viruses, our cocktail can be given infrequently, perhaps once every three months or five months and offer a passive vaccine for your friend and the millions of people like here as opposed -- >> my mother. >> as opposed, which they don't respond to >> so what's the solution? dr. scott gottlieb and others say we need a solution
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people are dying needlessly. >> look. i suspect. i don't know, that there has been a sort of a maniacal focus on vaccines and anything that distracts or tells people that there is some treatment might discourage people from taking vaccines that itself the only explanation that i can come up with. we are anxious to continue to work with the fda. they are the ones who are in authority. we have to work with them. we will work with them we work with them for 30 years, but we admit it, we are baffled on this one. >> doctor, at the beginning of the interview when you were talking with joe, you said that you had great concern about this new variant and i know we're still in speculation mode, because all the data is not back yet. i know you have been studying this i am curious how concerned you are. both in terms of transmissibility in terms of
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disease, in terms of the danger that it really poses i think there is a lot of folks right now that are hoping for the best, hoping it's mild, hoping it's not as transmissible, similar, what do we actually know what do you think you know >> yeah. so it would be a little irresponsible for me to speculate on some of the things that i'm not really an expert on transmissibility how sick it makes people you know, there are epidemiological imbalances looking at the tracking, almost to the minute, the rate will emerge over the next month so it probably doesn't help. what we can speculate on because it's based on some data, is that some of the common vaccines that are out there, are likely to take a hit, cocktails one of the anti-body should take a hit. the other maybe less so we've started with very potent anti-body, so we have to look at how much the hit s. more importantly, we have to go ahead ready for the next one and come
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up with a leg e regulatory schema if you will, we are have to change the vaccine or the anti-body, we can do it in a way that isn't irresponsible tore takes unnecessary risc but doesn't force us to wait so long by the time we approved, there is a different one we need to work together with the regulatory authorities and i'm sure they're thinking ard about this how do we make these institutionings in as efficient way as possible? within do we switch over our manufacturing to the next one? what is the timing going to be so many unanswered questions >> sorry to interrupt. we got not much time we got a lot riding on the pfizer and mirk therap merck therapeutics you confided not so great data on the merck what can you tell us >> look, when they first presented their data, there was
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a 50%esque when they presented the other half of the study, the overall effect size went down to 30. what means is the second half of the study, there was no effect you did a study once and where it had a small effect. the second time where it had no effect to me that would be of grave concern on the efficacy side on the safety side, you still have to deal with the geno-toxicity and the ability to mutate the virus and frankly cells in the people who get it >> right >> so i think this is difficult. pfizer looks a little more promising. it's got some issues of drug interactions, but those seem more manageable. i'm anxious to see their full data package and the fda's review of it so i'm hopeful that that will be a little bit better. in terms of chronic prevention, none no clonal anti-bodies given infrequently, given their efficacy and safety and millions of people have taken them. i think that's the way to go
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all we have to do is to make sure we stay ahead of the variants with the right monoclonal >> in the regeneron, are you in the monoclonal business. i'm not saying that will talk to you about your book. the point you made about immunocompromised people being individual incubators for the variants is a good one because it means, that's a market that's a problem we need to address. you can only address that with a vaccine, with a therapeutic. in this case a monoclonal maybe. >> absolutely, joe it's just staggering that we have 10 million incubators out there. it will happen in this country we're going to get these super variants emerging. it could make omicron obsolete pretty quickly >> well, thank you for getting on md and a hpd. >> my parents would be proud >> it's a lot of work. it's a lot of work a. lot of years in school.
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but we're grateful to have you on today >> thanks. >> great to have the doctor on this morning coming up, when we return, jim cramer's first take on this morning's volatility then we have commentary on what to do about it watching "squawk cnbc
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get down to the new york stock exchange where jim cramer joins us now we've been on a bit of a whipsaw, up and down, now down this morning surprised a little bit trying to figure out if it's those comments or what we think is going to be coming from the fed later today when we hear from mr. powell. >> i think it's really the ft article. if you parse when was said to meg yesterday, you don't get what he said to the ft it's wildly inconsistent i think len was downbeat i didn't expect that but he's come out on the other side from bourla and i think bourla told you he's in charge and i think that we need to hear
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from bourla. one thing i would say that you guys have really nailed is the despaired voices we have guys saying everything the professionals are completely baffled and they'll say anything they want. so i'm a little disappointed in the professionals, of course, with the cdc, the nih. they can't seem to get anything straight we've got this dutch expedition from mozambique -- from botswana why can't we find out? what's going on there, andrew? we have the people in the netherlands. can't we just test them, find out what's going on, see how bad it is? >> i hope that they are and i think the view is over in the next two weeks, we're going to see what the true implication is here the question, though, i think for investors this morning is, you know, do you want to ride this out do you want to be in stay-at-home stocks?
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should you be optimistic and try to look through all of this? should you be pessimistic? >> well, i think that i would go with something that splits the difference i would go with slowdown you buy utility stocks, you can buy health care, which health care is being sold that's probably a big mistake. you can really just sit there and say you know what, what does well in a slowdown you know what it's going to be, andrew it's going to be cloud, digitization, things that do not have -- do not stop with the economy, the omniverse you have to stick with faang and friends. why do we always have to come up with something new, if that works. that's what you buy in a slowdown, andrew >> jim cramer, we're going to see you in just a couple of minutes. >> that's it >> that's it >> this is all you've got for me >> if we had -- i want to talk to you about twitter, i want to talk to you about crypto, dalio.
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we could do a whole thing together but we'll do it another time. >> one day it may happen. >> i hope so but to sign up for your cnbc investing club, i'm reading this thing religiously. you can point your code -- your phone on the screen right now. ceoof strategeous. >> my view is that the market is reacting really to a fear of a shutdown as opposed to a fear of the virus. i would say my only someone it's becoming more untenable to have long-term lockdowns. i think that's true in the united states and i think it's true abroad. as a result, i really want to
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continue -- even though it's going to be a tough road to tow, i want to believe that the economy is going to be fully open at some point in 2022 it would be a mistake to bet on lockdowns or significant slowdown of the global economy as we enter next year. >> we had mike wilson on his point was that earnings are going to be probably pretty good barring the end of the world which can only happen once, as we know. >> right. >> but, you know, the fed does seem to be intent on changing its posture, at least a little, maybe sooner rather than later that hurts valuations. earnings stay okay as we continue to reopen, hopefully, because we have great science and technology, hopefully. just based on that, maybe stocks
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have had a great run already and you need to be much more selective and know we may not get these outsized gains every year like we did last year. >> i think that's very fair estimation because i don't think -- we haven't thought that inflation would be or will be transitory so that hurts valuations at best you're going to get something that is close to what earnings growth is going to be h we're looking for earnings to be up 9% next year. we spent most of this year trying to figure out what the impact of tax increases would be on earnings in 2022 and ultimately it seems like there will be no impact from tax increases on corporate profits next year. that may come in 2023, but it seems to me it is reasonable to expect returns to slow but i think there's plenty of room left in sectors like energy, materials, financials.
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the more value-oriented sectors. >> do you buy reopening stocks that are cheaper now, or do you just stick with your -- whatever you were doing before? >> i think if you're patient, i think you do just recognizing that it could be an ugly couple of weeks here. but, you know, generally speaking, when the market is up this much in the first 11 months of the year, my colleague did a great study on this this morning, it's really hard to fade the market in december. generally speaking, it's -- the trend is your friend you continue on with what you've had. and the magnitude maybe a little bit different given the size of the gain but, again, i think -- unfortunately, we're all betting a little bit on politics here globally, but generally speaking, i think the politics are moving in the direction of more reopenings.
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i think president biden yesterday indicated that, that the lockdowns are not going to be a part of the strategy. if that's the case, again, i probably would look, as you suggested, to add to some of the value sectors like energy, basic materials. >> all right, jason. thank you. we got to run. >> what about brian kelly? >> i can't believe five seconds make sure you join us tomorrow "squawk on the street" is next >> good morning. welcome to "squawk on the street." i'm carl quintanilla with david faber and jim cramer m moderna's ceo suggests a drop in efficacy oil 67 gasoline futures lowest since april. our road map begins with the covid fears on track for a sharply lower open

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