tv Fast Money CNBC November 17, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm EST
and tesla is more the starwo rfrprt of the group >> dow was down over 200 points. s&p down a quarter that's it for "closing bell. "fast money" starts now. live from the nasdaq market square in times square i'm brian in once again for melissa. and our lineup -- tonight we are all over the after hours action cisco is down. nvidia up about the same company conference calls
underway we will have any breaking news from those calls for you plus we will have that guy we will get his take on the state of the market. he will join us exclusively on all of that ahead. later, payment stocks with pain today and may be all things to amazon. we will tell you why welcome, everybody we start with the breakout in some big parts of big tech apple jumping nearly 2%. adding more than 50 billion to its market cap and it wasn't just apple microsoft hitting another all time high, barely keeping its spot as the biggest company in the world. the dow was down about 200 points as we head into the final weeks of the year, will the tried and true tech trade still continue,
guy adame still be the place to be >> it feels that way, brian. especially with microsoft. with the exception of a couple of downdrafts, and they are minor. this stock has been on fire. the reason why i think people are flocking to microsoft is dependability. 30 times next year's numbers given the growth and some of the stability, it's still reasonably valued about apple. tim says this all of the time. you don't want to run too far from the names what he's basically saying is there are opportunities to jump in my sense is microsoft up quickly 20%. if you see one of these, you just get back in because this stock is a juggernaut. >> let's keep the theme going. is it over the companies are great, but
does it mean the valuations are deserved, are they >> well, it's all relative to environment, liquidity environment, what people are playing for growth like ev and gaming not saying ev or gaming is absurd, but some of these valuations are absurd. so it makes apple and microsoft look like heroes services stream, we know that's where the margin is in microsoft's world with enterprise picking back up and the sense if it is not the leader in cloud today, will be soon it may be related to markets and where we have seen ebb and flow throughout the last year, year and a half for covid retail was down 2.5%
transports down 1.5% banks have underperformed s&p by 400 or 500 basis points over the last month people are concerned about growth or at least from a rotation that's the trade you see on a day like today ten-year yields were down. they are not grinding higher don't underestimate where the dollar is giving people some sense of confidence, either that, one, there may be less inflation in head winds if the dollar is damping down things like commodities and inflation for imports. but also the dollar is sometimes a sign of safety i don't think there is a lot of fear out there, but i think that is an environment where you may gravitate toward the tech world. i love the amazon chart. i know the chart has been a
disappointment and vast underperformer but if you look back a year, it's an upward trend and it had that early covid run and where e-commerce is. if you are going to be in mega tech, that's where i would go. >> i look at 1970s and reading is fundamental this came out yesterday for next year they say 5100 on the s&p 500 buy growth stocks with high margins versus low margin or unprofitable growth stocks it sounds obvious, but karen, maybe don't take flyers with the dreamers stick with the microsofts of the world. >> that's sort of my m.o i feel more comfortable with
these old school companies like a microsoft. i have all of the f-maga as dan likes to call it facebook and google, they are growth stocks, fantastic margins and value. if you look at a rotation today you see the high flyers coming in high flier names came in a little bit google, i think it ended up positive a little bit. apple, facebook. i don't know where that ended up on the day and microsoft. i'm comfortable owning those i don't know if they are overvalued or undervalued by a lot, but over time i think they will create value. if i thought microsoft was expensive, then i would have to figure out when do i get out and when do i get in and then you have to pay the taxes in between. i can't see that i am going to hang on and see if
they continue to grow value, and i think they will. they have done an extraordinary job. >> what say you or what would you do >> i think you have to look at the prevailing trend and figure out what is going to happen over the next couple months rather than one day i see the evolution of the growth scare is over from the narrative of the third quarter small caps are breaking out in particular looking down the list you see good momentum in those areas of the market that's not to say some of these quality growth names can't do well i think they can i think the market is looking towards some of the things i see. i saw containers were down 30% auto chip manufacturing is picking up what is the impact of all of that it all comes down to inflation
i think the risk is semetric i think that's underappreciated. there is downside to inflation next year, not just upside maybe the fed comes in and slows inflation a bit. but the other side, if it is soft, you may want to be on the other side >> why don't we broaden out with ou one of our favorite guests, terry duffy, the ceo who is in naples, florida for a cool lpga event. it has been 20 years you probably know the fed as well as anybody.
we are dating ourselves. do you think the fed is going to raise -- i am not saying taper, we know that -- but raise rates any time in the next two to three years? >> it is hard for me to make those predictions, but if i had to, i think they will. they are in a difficult situation. i think they passed up opportunities to take pass increases over the last several years. they let people be at the punch bowl longer than we should have. now we are in a situation where i like to tell people, my former life as a trader, we talk about supply and demand. you can never figure out what the demand is. now that we can't figure out the supply it is difficult to do hence, we are seeing out of control prices in all products i think the fed has no choice but to step in and tamp down
inflation. >> it has been the midst of a busy period. you negotiated a billion dollar deal with google a couple weeks ago. you have had a couple weeks to think about it, look at it and take a deep dive from a different advantage point. what are your thoughts a couple weeks out? >> a good question now we have had an opportunity to catch our breath and let the market absorb what we did with google i am hearing a lot of positive things from both sides, banks and other participants i think they realize this could be a massive cost saving i didn't talk about this last time, but a little bit about cyber and what it means to be under cyber watch. it's amazing i heard karen talking about how google is a growth company
they are a very forward thinking company. i think a lot of people realize what the benefits could be on this goggle deal even though the investment was interesting, we won't be talking about that we will be talking about the benefits over the next ten years and beyond >> this is karen you are a master of the trading dynamics is the retail traders this time different, and how do you think this plays out >> karen, we have talked about this before. the retail trader -- i have asad this before -- they want access, make sure they are not third in line, participate in the marketplace. the problem is they want to play nothing. so how does retail get treated if everybody is going to charge retail nothing, how do you make money?
we all know how they make money. nothing is free. the retail participant is willing to give up a lot because they don't want to give up commissions. i believe it is about access, and with google, i think it's about giving access to all participants and make sure it's equal. it's here to stay and we will have ebbs and flow >> people create products people didn't even know they wanted at the time with corn or stocks, it doesn't matter how many crypto-related products, options, whatever it may be, do you think there is a marketplace for? >> i think it will consolidate into a couple. i think crypto will be for what
i believe its intention is, to speed up commerce. i don't think crypto is about the appreciation of the crypto itself i think it's about the uses thereof. that's where i think they are heading. you still have to manage the dollar today and manage crypto tomorrow, but you won't be talking about it from appreciate or not much you will be talking about the uses we can use. all of these going to the block chain for the finance and to make it more efficient much. >> the event you are at, lpga tournament, not own great golf, but great causes tell us what it means. maybe some of our viewers and listeners can help >> it means the world to me. it's not just that i am a big believer in equality and making sure cme is a participant.
we have a diverse client base and workforce. i want to support women and women in business. but the charity we have partnered with which is st. jude, children's research hospital, and the millions that cm efrp cme has been able to give them, there is nothing worse parents should not worry about the cost involved. that means everything to me. >> with everything going on in the world, if you want to have humanity back, go to mayo clinic, st. jude, see what these families are dealing with. thank you for the work you are doing, raising money, ton of awareness. these are children, sick kids that should never happen >> god bless you
thank you. >> i am getting welled up. it is a fantastic cause. guy, anything that terry said that caught your ear >> i think it's interesting and one of the products is gold. if you asked terry, he would think gold has one move left before the end of the year i would also say i don't think the market understands the magnitude of this deal with google what it means and what it means going forward and how it lines up for the space terry has made so many deals over the years karen spoke to this. a lot of people questioned them and they turned out to be extraordinary in terms of what it has done for cme. the stock traded up to 230 and is back in the 220s. it's the best run exchange on the planet >> i still breakfast there in
chicago. we have an earnings alert on nvidia shares are jumping josh, how did the quarter look >> heading into the report the stock was already up about 130% this year, the best performer in the smh so far the reported to -- i spoke with matt. he said q 3 report was good. automotive was down a bit, but he reminded us they are transitioning to higher margin processors
this call is just getting started here the cfo said the quarter was outstanding. gaming was up 42% year over year data jumped 55% led by the big cloud names. omniversus which they said will be incredible for the world. >> tim, 55% growth in data center, and now thinking about the metaverse and the oasis? they are going to need a lot of juice to power mark zuckerberg's world. >> but these are indicative of a broader strength great stuff. i would never bet against nvidia
and probably i have not bet enough in favor of it in the last three years and i am bored with it. you could complain about it for the last couple and think about the 120% in the last month do you think there is a fair time of metaverse or omniversus rf n the stock be sure of that. they will be ahead in the next kind of wave, yes, i believe that i don't bet against them i think there is competition coming we talked about amd. they are taking on all of the big players across multiple sets of graphics, gaming, memory and some of the traditional bricks and mortar and intel i think competition is coming.
>> 34 times price to book. big numbers everywhere you look. big stock run, big earnings, but big valuation. how do we frame it >> no question about it. the stock moving after hours the stock was down 3% in trading. we will see tomorrow all of the hype around metaverse and all of the things we are talking about. for the short-term my thought is it went too far, too fast. it has always been expensive but never this expensive tim mentioned amd. these companies have flip-flopped back and forth. it's tough to wait for the perfect pullback with a stock like this. maybe it doesn't pull back as much as you think it should and you miss it.
it is a great long-term story, hard to bet against but i think the stock doesn't run on this earnings report. >> polite way to say it may have gotten ahead of itself cisco. revenue falling short. missing some analysts' expectations guy, at one point this was the biggest company in the world but this kind of a move is a big deal >> it is a big deal. this happened last quarter when the stock traded off i thought it would continue down, only to find two days later it traded higher than at earnings i am not looking to cast dispersions, but it is not a particularly strong quarter. and an environment with a company like nvidia where it is
firing on all cylinders. the only nitpicking was gaming the world is leaving cisco behind, like it or not that's not being mean, just what is happening the flip side are names like microsoft. and look what oracle has done in the last six to nine months. there are companies flourishing and companies trying to find their way. cisco is one still trying to find their way >> guy adame, i don't think you are being mean at all. here is the reality. coming into close it was a $57 stock. cisco is now below where it was 2 1/2 years ago. not being mean at all. be sure it catch chuck robbins he will be on tonight on "mad money.
what are you going to do to turn this around. all of your competitors are booming and you haven't done anything in 2 1/2 years. >> and rivian having an honest to goodness down day first, missing the mark. target shares sold off. what the heck happened hey businesses! you all deserve something epic! so we're giving every business, our best deals on every iphone - including the iphone 13 pro with 5g.
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the longer you've been with us... the more rewards you can get. join for free on the xfinity app. our thanks. your rewards. welcome back to "fast money. shares of target taking a tumble despite an earnings beat before the bell warning investors of tightening margins. the company absorbs higher prices instead of passing them on to customers. if you watched "fast money" last night, we won't tell you we told you so, the story of inflation, but we told you so higher prices are either going to be eaten by the consumer or retailer somebody is going to eat them.
what do you make of target >> i am long target so i am sad to see it down it probably ran up too much going into earnings. i still really like it this is a management team that likes to underpromise and overdeliver. i think part of it was logistical expenses, supply chain expenses, labor expenses, but i think they don't want to pass it onto the customers they are excited about christmas. they don't like to overpromise they like to underpromise so i think they will get additional progress off a revenue number. 246 and change i think would be a good place to add. relative to the market and
growth they have, i really like it one thing i thought was interesting companies haven't talked about which was shrink, inventory theft. i haven't heard a lot about that i wond wer when companies scalep with labor, if that will be a trend. i like target. i like them trying to care about the customer but also will have the inventory to give the customer what they want for christmas. you want to make sure the goods are there. and there is whether or not they can absorb the higher prices this stuff now was bought six months ago the stuff we will be buying in may is what they are paying more
for now. >> i am distracted ad nauseam. are we surprised the market needed to price in some of these head winds on margin a little bit for the retailers, the offset is higher labor costs are not temporary, transitory. they are very good for their businesses the middle class segment, the demographic shopping in these stores have more money in their pockets. i think in target's case they have done phenomenal things over the years. covid was of benefit and at some level they were a beneficiary. i do think you have a case here. this is me talking long walmart
and not long target. that's been a terrible trade target has outperformed walmart 60% over the last six months so bad on me. there are those that can push around the supply chain more than others. i think walmart is in a better position relative value, walmart might be cheaper, but i think it's time for the trade to work. >> target shares are $80 a share in a year. down a couple percent now, but target has been a gigantic moneymaker for karen and her clients over the last number of years. we are just getting started on "fast money. loss of electricity, rivian's first down day. lucid losing some steam.
phil has the ev on some red-hot names. >> they are still hot. when you look at the market caps of rivian and lucid and compare with gm and ford, they are still trading at lofty valuations. rivian briefly passed gm for a brief market it is still a higher market cap than ford. lucid opened factory zero. this is their first ev only plant. a few years ago they were building chevy impalas now they are building the electric hummer. and earlier today the president told us this is just the beginning of more evs to come. >> we have close to half a million people who raised their hands for hummers and lyrics,
and this is just the beginning >> general motors plans to sell 30 evs when they ramp up time and again they believe they will surpass tesla in terms of market leadership on electric vehicles the president of the united states took the hummer ev for a ride he is there it outing his build back better. they said while you are here, do you want to drive it i am not sure he got it as fast as it could go which is 0 to 60 in 30 seconds. they just wanted pictures of the president driving one. the reason we are showing you this is in terms of the market share, tesla is the leader, they have about 19% of the global
market share general motors has 11% general motors has a low cost electric vehicle in china. we will see how this changes as tesla ramps up ev sales. >> the hummer is going to start at like 115,000. rivian 80,000. most of these cars are pretty do doggone expensive. >> that's the limbited edition they expect price to come down, but that's still a long way from 45,000 of the mass market. >> assuming the build back better plan passes to have an electric car you need to charge it either on the
road or at home. and many have had stock on fuego. if you are thinking of plugging into space, think again. here to throw cold water on the company is herb greenberg, cnbc contributor, a good man and glad to see you again herb, you wrote about this no doubt raising the ire of the ev fanatics >> let me put it in context. great to be with you there is a million dollar podcast, run by two guys i work with who are former hedge funneled guys -- fund guys the concept is that somebody who doesn't know about investing he says i have $1,000 continue to vest for 10 or 12 years
i want to put it into ev charging stations. and without skipping a beat he says it is a terrible idea, despicable idea. if you think about it, everything that seems hot in the moment, why a charging station what is the reality of the business there will be increased competition, no barriers to entry. you can take this down the road to different incarnations that would suggest -- you get price competition, who knows how it's going to go. i think it's one of those things we have seen with other types of businesses that sound great, but not the way to go into this if you are looking for a longer term play. >> quick question for you.
maybe a two partner -- parter. would you want the more traditional ford/gm, will they benefit and if not, what e verch related trends might you look to >> this has been a great theme by all of the folks i work with at empire. they had something they called technology as a service, a theme. they were looking at the pick and shovel type of guys. they were looking at nvidia and google you are not getting the pure plays, but at least you are getting some exposure. if this really takes off, you get the added hit. it hasn't kicked in. that's probably the safest way to go. >> okay.
it's a piece that everybody should read. check it out on linked in and other spots. hope everything is great in san diego. >> it is >> guy, let's trade this ev go and some of these others and a lot of these things get vandalized, the copper and stuff that are in them what is your take on the charging space >> i am not advocating stealing copper from sites number one but read herb. it's extremely thoughtful. these are not fast money trades necessarily, but you read these and go at your own peril names like crown castle and
others, they have had tremendous runs, but you realize they are at the forefront of something interesting. that's where i would go, but the first place i would go is to read what herb just wrote. >> in uk they are putting charging stations into lampposts so it is not a dedicated thing, linked into the power with the light. you can compete with the major utilities as well. coming up, decline, visa and mastercard both going down, all thanks to amazon we will explain. plus roku rocks. one analyst says he's confused ♪ [suitcase closing]
high fees. after brexit, the fee cap no longer applies to them jeff mills, what say you >> i think it might not matter short-term longer term i would be more worried. i think you are seeing surcharges on vaisa cards in australia. ultimately they may ban them by january. in their statement they said a few things it's all about the evolution of digital payments they talked about innovating, promoting faster, cheaper options for their customer it's company for the card companies, both the card companies and companies like papal. >> karen do we call that calling a guy
guy adame, although i don't know whose dog is cuter is it safe to have -- >> a he. i agree with what jeff said. i think this pressure is important. there is not a lot of variable cost the fee goes down, the profitability can go down quickly and that is upsetting if you are a dog or visa shareholder. >> guy, what is karen's dog saying about visa? >> i think what he is saying is about jeff mills he heard jeff's joycvoice for 30 seconds. mastercard is down i can do the math. people are looking at valuation.
if karen's dog allowed her to speak for a couple seconds, i think she would have reiterated that i don't think you run too far from these stocks. papa paypal at these levels is interesting. >> the dog doesn't care about visa, mastercard or paypal he is saying get the food. >> i will get him at the break >> don't worry about it. or put your phone on the qr code on the screen. coming up -- analysts turning bullish on a call and gearing up for william
a bit of a kill on roku after being downgraded tim, your take >> any time they say something, we all listen. they are very shrewd and usually are looking a step or two ahead. [ poor audio ] -- will be falling 17% or so a stock that has a valuation and trades on multiple valuations and they downgraded that, too. it is a function of the dynamic between the existing and declining business model and how
roku may need to be monetizes these streaming. we are in a post covid environment at least as it relates to roku. i think as of a date -- and if you look at the chart, it could be a double top or a lopsided head and shoulders you have seen it when you get to 220, maybe you have taken some of that off. but the fundamentals are challenging much. >> they still see more downside in roku. coming up, option traders piling into the kitchen goods retailer you are watching "fast money."
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♪ ♪ xfinity rewards are our way of thanking you just for being with us. enjoy rewards like getting illumination's minions movie on us. xfinity mobile benefits. exclusive experiences, like the chance to win tickets to see watch what happens live. andy cohen: hey! it's me! and tasty recipes from bravo's top chef cheftestants that'll have you cooking like a pro. the longer you've been with us... the more rewards you can get. join for free on the xfinity app. our thanks. your rewards. welcome back williams-sonoma down today and retailers betting no amount
of aroma therapy can keep this stock from going lower >> williams-owe sonoma, it trad about 4700 contract. that is about 477,000 shares and this stock trades about a million shares per day it implies a movement of 9% higher or lower. one of the trades we saw was a buyer of the december 200/160 1x 2 put spread they were spending a little over $3.68 to do that trade betting unde just under 2%. >> could be tough fo lliams-sonoma.
tim, kick us off on final trade. >> amazon, whether we are talking about cloud, microsoft, rivian, payments in visa and how they are disrupting it amazon is everywhere and this is a chart improving. >> first, i have to apologize for my dog morgan stanley i love asset managing. ms >> jeff? >> we talked about this a lot. efficiency is king ptc. helps facilitate that. i think there is plenty of upside in this one
>> guy >> with some of the comments you make, you talk about how you are dating yourself. now i understand why you are only one people thought my eye blinks was morse deco, jimmy >> good stuff. i hope i see everybody tomorrow night. if not, call the authorities "mad money" with jim starts now. my mission is simple, to make you money i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. there's always a bull market somewhere, and i promise to help you find it. "mad money" starts now hey, i'm cramer. welcome to a west coast edition of "mad money. coming to you right from san francisco. welcome to cramerica