tv Squawk Box CNBC November 11, 2021 6:00am-9:00am EST
it's thursday, november 11th, the 11th day of the 11th month veterans day "squawk box" begins right now. good morning, everybody. welcome to "squawk box" here on cnbc i'm becky quick along with joe kernen and andrew ross sorkin. and as joe mentioned it is veterans day today this is a day for us to pay our respects to all of those who have sacrificed for our country and thank everyone who served. the bond market is closed in observance today but the stock markets are open on this veterans day let's look at the u.s. equity futures you'll see green arrows this morning after a decline in the markets yesterday. yesterday the dow was off 240 points but only down by .6%.
if you were looking at the s&p, it was down by .8 and the nasdaq was the big loser down by about 1.6% both the s&p and nasdaq had the worst performance in over a month yesterday this morning you see the nasdaq indicated up by almost 100 points dow futures up by 45 and the s&p by 15. andrew, welcome back you must have a ton to talk about after all the guests you talked to the last couple of days. >> we have a lot to talk about it was a bunch of fun days with a lot of news made but we have a story right now, we should probably get to, that has a lot of people a twitter, if you will. which is the tesla ceo, elon musk, selling nearly $5 billion in tesla stock this according to financial filings released last night. still owns 166 million shares. he sold the shares in part due to a tax obligation. a chunk of the shares were
slated for sale before he tweeted the poll asking if he should sell 10% of his stock if you recall, he was interviewed at the code conference earlier in the fall and he effectively said, look, the end of the fourth quarter is going to come and i'm going to be selling a lot of shares to deal with these taxes. and that's why i think there was so much, i don't know, skepticism about what that whole twitter poll was about the question is whether the twitter poll is a completely separate item if you will, when it comes to what's happening. >> it looked like the initial was the stuff he planned in september but then the sales that happened on tuesday, and wednesday, i think, were not necessarily things that were part of that that. so that could be in relation to the twitter poll it's confusing because at first i was like you got to be kidding me but digging through, he could be selling the later shares because of the twitter poll. it's a lot it's always stuff to dig through. >> i'm surprised he hasn't taken
to twitter to explain himself. >> his favorite mode of communication. >> i thought he would have said this is what i'm doing, why i'm doing it, but i don't know where the board is, if there's lawyers -- is he supposed to get this stuff approved, not get it approved we may show you clips later from ken griffin, an early investor in spacex and he had a provocative view of elon musk and the share sales. we'll talk about that. >> explain that he -- becky and i were -- we felt his pain yesterday, he's cash poor. he doesn't take a salary, andrew they said he might get as much as 17 billion just to get him through like next year that's what i was thinking i'm glad i'm not in that position because i have a salary that i can live off of i can't imagine -- >> it's tough. >> -- being stuck where -- waiting until that 17 billion clears and actually hits your account. and then you pay the bills you
have with that, and then you just start budgeting 17 billion wouldn't you be able to -- that would get you through how long would you make it to the year 3000 >> infinity and beyond >> at least the year 2525. >> i'm not funding missions to mars so it's hard to know -- >> that's thrue, that gets expensive. >> i know you have a spacex story you're going to talk about, but this makes money now. so when he talks about how he's planning to fund, you know, interplanetary space missions and whatnot, i don't know. maybe he will have to put up his own capital to do that but i think spacex is doing well. >> bezos says every time he sells amazon shares it's to fund blue origin. >> we have the money for build back better. we got that going for us
once he pays his taxes on the shares so we can do all that stuff. almost let's talk spacex, other musk news spacex launched four astronauts to the space station last night, it will bring the astronauts to the iss for a six-month stay in orbit. this is spacex's third operational crew launch for nasa i don't know if i would survive getting up there, but once i got up there i'd want to go home i'd worry about it immediately. >> did you see the problems they had, there was concerns about the toilets in the one to get back down so it was a real splash down. >> excuse me. >> diapers. >> wearing diapers. >> they're wearing diapers because there was a potential leak in the toilet and that could be a bad thing if wet stuff got out. >> i have a fear i have a serious fear of death,
obviously, but a fear of heights. and i can remember when i was a little kid, do you remember going up, if you ever had a friend who had a house up in a tree, a tree house. >> yeah a tree house. >> and if it was kind of hard to get up there once i got up there i couldn't relax because i was immediately worrying about getting back down >> you may not be the candidate for a mission to mars. >> il would not be -- no. i saw what happened to matt damon. you saw what he was eating, right? >> i did potatoes made fresh. >> that's one way of saying it. >> is he still an investor or early investor and got out >> i don't know if he's still an investor i imagine he may be because it's a private company but his take on this is actually that -- maybe we'll get the clip at some point but he doesn't want big successful corporate leaders to be selling their shares, actually he thinks that this --
>> i saw a line about that >> his basic take is we want to incentivize our great entrepreneurs to continue to be incentivized if they have to take out loans and they believe in their company that much, great. i think his view is that the -- the amount of money that we will collect from either a wealth tax or something that would require the sales of these shares in the short term will be dymin mouse relative to the value creation over time to the larger system that's his argument. we can debate it. >> he's saying borrow against it, right it off and everything that has a huge target on its back right now if you are illiquid what is he suggesting >> he didn't get far down the rabbit hole of how to do it. >> i think he was probably talking about a wealth tax,
though >> i think his point is broader. which is that, you know -- and you're going to hear me struggle to say it because i'm not sure i agree with it. i think his premises largely is, look, we create some of the greatest companies in the world. joe you made the point, becky you made the point, in america, relative to every other country in the world and to his eyes that system is working, and he thinks it works better this way and the alternative potentially may be too risky, a path to go down because of what it may do to the larger incentive structure. >> although it doesn't answer the i nnequality issues they're not worried about how much money they raise, it's more a question of making sure there isn't such a gap between the haves and the have notes . >> right >> i guess we discussed that let's talk about disney now, shares falling after the company said that subscriber count to
the disney plus streaming service is still growing but that growth is slowing dramatically, too. they added 2.1 million subscribers in the latest quarter down from 6 million in the previous quarter here's the ceo yesterday talking about subscriber growth. >> we reaffirmed our guidance of 230 to 260 million households. we believe there are two primary drivers of that growth first one is going to be the expansion into new markets we're going to double the number of markets that disney plus is in international territories by fiscal year 2023 and the second component is obviously going to be new fresh, content across our wonderful disney franchises. >> earnings came in at 37 cents a share missing estimates of 51 cents. revenue fell short we'll have more on disney's earning at the top of the next
hour that stock down almost 5% this morning. that subscriber growth is a big deal and has implications for other companies, you're talking about peloton being a poster child for what happened afterwards so they got these companies to get huge demand coming in, what can you expect from this point out? >> had a conversation with our crack producer, mad max, and my point once again is it's always been the same. give me some content i don't care how you get it to me streaming is fine, give me streaming. i got all the streaming services i don't know if i'm going to keep them all. every one is called plus i don't know if they survive there has to be some consol consolidation. i don't care how you give it to me, whether it's over the top, whether it's the way we get it now. there are times where i have a choice of streaming or just staying on my cable box. good i can stay on my cable box and do it easily instead of
waiting for the transfer they're spending so much money trying to distinguish themselves and get name-brand stars for something not many people have the streaming services trying to get on the map, it's bidding up prices for that and that can't last, i don't think. but i don't see the results in terms of what i'm watching there are times i'm sitting down and it's like "godfather" is on. i'm going to watch that again. it's like the 50th time i have seen it. >> how much do you think, though, the move in the stock market for those streaming services during the pandemic effectively perverted for lack of a better word, the strategy of these companies for all of them? >> during the pandemic or before that if you were chasing netflix. >> chasing their tail, whether it's going to work or not. now they're all committed. >> whether it's going to work or not. i know we're going to be talk about rivian later but it
connects all of a sudden you have the market caps for certain types of companies and then everybody starts to chase that and the question is whether that's worth chasing. >> legitimate question >> are you watching anything what do you got for me >> i haven't watched a thing >> he's been doing deal book he has no time for this. >> if you did have some time. >> i was focused for about 48 hours. i haven't watched a thing. i don't know anything. except squawk. >> at night my wife and i when we're together we like to have a glass of wine and watch tv and she doesn't care about ncaa basketball, she doesn't care, go figure it started it's on netflix, have you seen "made" it's good. >> i have not. >> it's really good. >> palar is watching "you" the second season, it's not for
kids, i can tell you that. >> i will check that out >> maybe i won't like it then. it's like books without pictures really but you know what i'm saying so i got a million streaming services and nothing to watch. it's not fair. it's not right and it's not fair. >> i got one for you "dopesick". >> what? >> it's called "dopesick". it's on hulu, it's about the opioid crisis. it's michael keaton. >> it's good >> is it a documentary >> no. scripted michael keaton. >> i'm going to look. when we come back we'll talk about rivian's public debut yesterday, the biggest i.p.o. since back to 2014 when alibaba went public. the company has now a market cap bigger than ford and general motors much more right after this break. "squawk box" will be right bac k. so, you want evs, you have come to the right place.
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a market cap of about $93 billion. at that level it's already worth more than ford and general motors joining us is gene munster gene, there was a lot of excitement about this, and that excitement seemed to really take off even as the stock traded, priced at 78, jumped out of the gate at like $109, increase of more than 50%. do you like the stock? what do you think of the valuation? why so much excitement >> for a starting point, i'm a huge fan of evs and the ev opportunity. i think rivian's valuation is full standard deviation outside of aggressive. i want to put that in perspective. their vehicles sell for $80,000 esp. that's similar to tesla's model s and x, $80,000 esp and those units on an annual basis topped out at 70,000 vehicles a year. if you apply a 70,000 vehicle
delivery number for 2023, keep in mind, it'll be about a thousand vehicles in 2021. so if you ramp from one to 70,000 which is a pretty sizable ramp in 2023, that means that this -- i didn't do the math with up 9% in the premarket. but that means that the valuation per vehicle delivery in 2023 is $1.3 million. tesla, excludeing all their energy business and insurance and other x factors, is valued 2023 at about 500,000 dollars. when you put this together, this is trading at about two and a half times tesla's valuation and does not have what i think is some of the other x factor upside around autonomy it's not as strong with rivian and energy business and insurance, for example so it does beg a question of why is this happening to rivian stock and can it continue? >> when you lay it out like
that, i don't know that i've ever heard somebody lay out the vehicle -- like for tesla alone you say $500,000 per every vehicle it's going to deliver next year. that seems crazy can you justify that before you get to this valuation for rivian >> well, this is my opinion is that you have to look at what the underlying growth rate is. i think over the next five years tesla can grow at 50%. if you apply 6.5 multiple on that 50%, that's the same multiple that apple would get for hardware, zasoftware and services ultimately i'm in the camp i think this can be a religious argument but the argument that evs are computers on wheels. so when i think about tesla, think about the long term, my opinion is this could be a $2,500 stock but there is a difference here with tesla and rivian. as i mentioned, the average
selling price start at 70,000 rivian's vehicles but their esps are going to be 80,000 is that tesla didn't get to that 50% growth number until they started to sell vehicles in the $45,000 price. undoubtedly rivian will have more vehicles in that but i think to answer your question on tesla, i still believe that 500,000 is justified given the size of the market opportunity and in rivian's case, it's a head scratcher for me. anything is possible in tech we can talk about why it's going so high, but i feel i'm uncomfortable what the valuations are. >> cathy wood, too, who has been a big bull when it comes to tesla, has said similar things she said she wouldn't have bought it at $78 when it started selling. that's unusual to see all of these questions raised around this, if you had to take the other side of this,
people would say it's big backers. it has ford behind it, amazon behind it and amazon is going to be ordering a lot of their trucks and maybe that's the instant partner if they're willing to put their stake behind it, there's something there there. they've only delivered 156 trucks, most to employees, almost all of them for 2023 they said, they don't expect to fill the 55,400 orders they have until the end of next year so you are talking about -- or the end of 2023, i should say. you are talking about a long run way with some of these things. but people look it, the backers, there's promise behind it or do you think this is a case where retail investors have jumped in and thrown even crazy valuations out? >> i think there's two factors to this. one, institutions were there at the 50, $60 billion valuation. the reason they participated in rivian versus the many other ev company, most of them spacs, as
you said institutional quality the investors, ford, amazon, you talked about but that gives big companies comfort that this, in fact, is going to be around for a long time and then you throw in the x-factor, which is the fear of missing out. the fear of missing the next tesla. there's some soon math that i think goes on in some investors' minds if this is truly institutional quality and the potential to be the next tesla, tesla is a billion dollar market cap rivian needs to be 10x at current levels probably loose math around that. i don't think it's sustainable i think rivian is going to be a key player in the market but that to me tries to make some sense about what is going on with the valuation of rivian >> thanks for breaking down the math with us this morning. good to see you. >> thank you we've got a lot more coming up on "squawk box" in a moment we're going to talk inflation,
electric calls, china, highlights from the 10th annual dealbook conference right after the break. but first, shares of amc, the ceo filing to sell about 50 million of his shares. he said after that sale he'll still own more than 2 million shares what do the apes think we'll break it down after the break. is that tom brady? yeah. he comes in to recharge, get software updates. you know. let's go! retirement income is complicated. as your broker, i've solved it. that's great, carl. but we need something better. that's easily adjustable has no penalties or advisory fee. and we can monitor to see that we're on track. like schwab intelligent income. schwab! introducing schwab intelligent income. a simple, modern way to pay yourself from your portfolio.
salute to veterans veterans day terry bradshaw: hi, i'm terry bradshaw rocky bleier: and i'm rocky bleier. col. greg gadson: and i'm col. greg gadson. terry bradshaw: on this veterans day, our heartfelt thanks, to all of our military veterans for their service. col. greg gadson: we honor our veterans, and those who are no longer with us. rocky bleier: to all of our military serving around the world, thank you for defending the many freedoms we enjoy.
terry bradshaw: tune in to salute to veterans for discussions about the issues our military veterans face daily. salute to veterans presented by sap, navy federal credit union, verizon, visit us online at www.salutetoveterans.org so, you want evs, you have come to the right place. is that tom brady? yeah. he comes in to recharge, get software updates. you know. let's go! welcome back to "squawk box" this morning at the second day of the dealbook virtual summit i spoke to ken griffin and got his reaction to the inflation data we saw yesterday prices climbed 6.2%, the biggest jump in 30 years. here's what he had to say about it. >> we're at a more precarious cross head today than any of us anticipated nine or 12 months ago. the fed's hand is going to get pushed hard here by this today and they're going to have to
make some pretty tough decisions around both the pace of taper and the speed with which they raise rates in 2022. >> also spoke with general motor's ceo and i asked her about the valuation of electric vehicle companies, tesla at $1 trillion and up starts like lucid at 70 billion and rivian closing its first day of trading at $86 billion >> it highlights to me the huge opportunity. general motors is so undervalued and as we, you know, start this wonderful period that we are now in because we invested over three, four years ago in electric vehicles, as the hummer comes out yet this year as the lyric comes out early next year. it's just a steady run we'll have our own battery plant up and running next year. so i'm excited to get all these vehicles out to leverage the men and women of general motors and the manufacturing talent we have so i see it as huge opportunity to capture significant more
value. >> she didn't want to say it i think she thinks the stocks are overvalued but there's still a huge cap of opportunity if they come down and she can come up just a little bit that there's an opportunity there meantime, president biden and china's president xi are scheduled to meet virtually next week and i talked to antony blinken about that meeting >> they spent like five hours on the phone already over the course of several conversations. when they have the virtual meeting, that will be more time, more focus on a host of issues because here's the thing this is the most complex and also the most consequential relationship we have, the relationship with china. it's tempting to try to put it on a bumper sticker but we can't do that. it has aspects that are clearly competitive, some that are
cooperative and some that are adversarial. and the challenge for us is to make sure we're managing that relationship across all of these different aspects. >> and i'll say we got into a discussion about taiwan and what the united states would do if china were to invade there's a bit of a semantics game going on in terms of word use saj of what the united states would do. we continued to suggest there would be support by the united states to protect taiwan but still some questions to me about whether, you know, what our role really would be. and then, finally, my final guest of the summit was maria ressa. she was the winner of the 2021 nobel peace price for documenting how social media is being used to spread fake news, harass opponents and manipulate public discourse i asked if she were mark zuckerberg for a day, what she would do to fix facebook
>> if i were mark zuckerberg for a day, turn up news ecosystem quality, number one. number two, the difference between fact and fiction -- and i don't mean like are there two of us having a conversation, that's not t debatable, there are two of us. those types of things. but what about signals from the real world, the way google page rank does it there's 135 pages that go in but they are linked to real world authority. when i mean "authority," expertise. if you break it up, it does -- you'll have the same problems if you have people with no ethics >> and maria has a remarkable story and history in the philippines and with journalism. started her business on facebook that's how the platform began and she went and spoke with mark zuckerberg, i believe back in 2017, to warn him of some of the
things that were taking place. big two days. >> yeah. i thought -- the way i read that, give me some of that ev love they got a valuation based on their legacy business. gm, remember what it was valued at at the height of the financial -- was it valued at anything its enterprise value was almost all dead at that point just because you make an ev doesn't mean you're going to get ev love if you don't have the right, you know, ev offering, do you? >> what i don't get about this, and we've talked about this. clearly, what is the real tam? is the tam not the car market that exists today plus plus a little bit or is there -- is it wildly much more than that that's the ultimate question, and then how much of that pie can you capture? >> one of the domestic -- >> right now we expanded the pie. >> i think it might be ford -- i
think it's ford that says the power is out in the house and the guy is hooking up his truck to power the house it got all -- >> that's the question how do you define what the ultimate market is >> solar panel, charger battery. that becomes your solar power -- i don't know it sounds good i don't know if it really happens. but certainly there's -- i don't know you heard anthony -- not anthony but gene munster he buys into the ev hype full on you don't even question that rivian is not overvalued, sorkin seriously? fully diluted it's more than 100 already. they make no money i think their trucks look funny. i said yesterday, you weren't here, they look like thomas the tank engine. >> i don't disagree. but let's both accept it we both thought for years that
tesla was wildly overvalued. and we may still think it today. i'm just -- i don't know we always thought -- >> we always thought teslas were cool. >> yes. >> but we thought they were being able to survive and make money because of subsidies that's what we thought i always liked that. it's a beautiful car, the model s. >> beautiful car. >> i never liked the cheese wedge that ugly thing, which one is that? it's like a crappy looking suv. >> is that the x >> yeah. horrible horrible. >> i think it's kind of cool. >> i think they had to go through 10 different models and say this is the ugliest one. >> with the wing doors >> i like the wing doors, just the overall car, big and boxy and ugly looks like one of those plymouths what was that thing? >> plymouth? i remember a plymouth, wow
good old days. >> not your father's oldsmobile? coming up, vladimir putin's pipeline power play. brian sullivan is going to join us from london with a special report next. and crude prices, not quite as crude. that's pretty crude. 81 as we head to break. here's a look at yesterday's s&p 500 winners and losers hey businesses! you all deserve something epic! so we're giving every business, our best deals on every iphone - including the iphone 13 pro with 5g. that's the one with the amazing camera? yep! every business deserves it... like one's that re-opened! hi, we have an appointment. and every new business that just opened! like aromatherapy rugs! i'll take one in blue please!
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mobile back in the day. >> loved them. >> they were heavy they were like tanks weren't they >> we had an olds mobile and a buick century. you remember that? >> i do. remember the lincoln with the d doors that opened like that? >> no. >> the buick century was not that fancy at all. >> who's opening food? >> lincoln continental, they were pretty cool. >> i hear you. >> we wanted one and we looked at it and i remember i was very disappointed and we couldn't afford it. we got, i don't know, some crappy ford. >> i'm not touching anything, becky. >> joe has his coffee, i hear it. >> yeah. you could hear me doing that, making it? >> yes. >> i'm sorry, am i on tv >> yes >> while everyone talks renewables, 2021 has been the
year of fossil fuel, costs are soaring for everything as china and europe deals with concerns about energy shortages all of this as we head into a winter that's supposed to be bad and some of that may be tied to russian president vladimir putin. brian sullivan joins us from london with a look at gas power in europe. a lot of this seems to be he's chuckling on the way to be bank. >> if putin were to chuckle he would be chuckling, yes because his power has gone up. good news for europe and england, natural gas prices have come down a touch from the recreant highs as well if you look at the spot market, the january 2022 contract in europe right now is about $70. that's down from about 115 a month ago. the bad news is that number is still 350% higher than a year ago. it went from 15 to 70. now much of that move has to do with russia.
natural gas. and pipeline now we, of course, talked about the nord stream ii pipeline in recent years, of course. but that is not operating yet. in fact, the key pipeline right now is called the yamal pipeline it is running from russia through belarus, poland and then into germany that is the one currently operating and this week, germany finally saw some increased flows of natural gas through it. this is after a few days where the pipeline began pumping the wrong way. back to the east, back toward poland can you believe that, and a shortage experts think this is no accident as europe has become more desperate for natural gas headed into the winter and putin is using the power to hold parts of europe political hostage to get his crown jewel approved, that is the nord stream ii it is built but not yet running it needs german approval they
have a new government there, and putin is eager to get the pipe flowing as soon as possible. we spoke with former energy secretary rick perry and i asked him about the threat that putin poses to the energy supplies. >> the point is, without substantial liquified natural gas coming from non-russian sources -- i say non-russian sources, because there's already a record of putin shutting down the gas supply to places that he wants to put a political finger on, so to speak, to get them to do certain things. >> so germany in particular, the biggest economy in europe, they killed their nuclear industry in the last 20 years or so, so outside of renewables, 80% of their powered needs are natural gas. nearly 30% of europe's entire natural gas, all of it comes
from one company, and right now europe's natural gas storage is lower than any time in a decade. the uk where we are, is in a worse position they don't have any significant gas storage, don't have the capability, they shut that down in 2017 so they're extremely reliant, desperate really, on buying gas on the open market which means they are very reliant, joe, on the natural gas generosity of yes, one mr. vladimir putin >> i see you texted me about -- first of all, it's interesting for me to know that belarus and poland have a border i'm going to take your word for it therefore there is a border crisis that impacts -- i got to study up maybe a little bit on these borders over there what is -- what is the border crisis entail and how does it affect this whole story that you're talking about, brian? >> yeah. it is complicated.
i know, i'll try to do it quickly as tv is soon to do. belarus borders russia, they have a lot of migrants coming in from syria and other parts of asia, desperate people, and they are literally dying at the border, they're freezing here's the politico none drum as well poland is accusing belarus of driving them into poland belarus is saying no, it's poland's fault we just talked about the key pipeline, the yamal, the natural gas pipeline, it goes through belarus, in fact, belarus is arguably the most important small to mid size country in europe because not only does the yamal pipeline go through it, and belarus' leader said i will cut off the taps unless poland fixes this
so this humanitarian crisis could contribute to the energy crisis. >> good to see we're not isolated here in our own little world at all. >> no. >> thank you that was not that in the weeds and it's important and it's all affecting -- everything i think is global, hence globalism thanks, brian. we'll see you in a while thanks coming up, a lot more on squawk we'll talk about the fallout from yesterday's hotter than expected inflation data. how it could change the fed's taper plans. and we'll do it next
so, you want evs, you have come to the right place. is that tom brady? yeah. he comes in to recharge, get software updates. you know. let's go! welcome back to "squawk box. the surge in the october consumer price index is now raising some more questions about how and when the fed could take action against inflation.
for that story steve leishman joins us this morning. what do you think, steve >> there's talk that the taper before it's begun could go faster than first announced. speculating the rapid and widespread inflation reported yesterday could prompt the fed to quicker reduction in asset purchases and that would open the window for faster rate hikes. just one economist wrote yesterday something like this it's possible that persistent inflation will cause the fed to accelerate the tapering of asset purchases this spring nor to lyft the fed funds rate from the zero lower bound sooner than later. the fed allowed for this when it announced the reduction in the $120 billion in asset purchases. that happened at the meeting earlier this month it said the committee is prepared to adjust the pace of purchases if warranted by changes in the economic outlook. we'll see if fed folks think that's true. at the current pace the fed
would finish the taper by may. if they stick to their plan of tapering before they hike, june would be the earliest possible month for a hike how do you gauge market sentiment? we'll look at the speed of the taper, how do you engage that amount watch the may and june futures rate it's 18 basis points, equating to a 38% probability of a hike at the meeting the june 24 bases points equals a 63% chance they've both been rising since mid october. while economists entertain the possibility of a speedier taper it's mostly not their base case. it's still relief you get workers off the sidelines, supply bottlenecks clear bringing down inflation before the fed has to hurry the process. but the october report indicates the window is narrow and moving fast, andrew.
>> did you hear what -- you know, the plan is out. we will continue this conversation i'm sure very, very soon, steve. thanks. coming up, bitcoin pulling back a bit but ether continues to push higher a key decision from the s.e.c. on a possible bitcoin is comingp we'll have a breakdown of what might happen next. probably probably not that. ali baba higher this morning it's singles day it's underway, the shopping event single day eclipses black friday and cyber monday in terms of sales but there are quite a few oppele that make that happen. we'll be right back. so, you want evs, you have come to the right place.
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now, the founder of the delta block chain. the deadline is coming it's a real deadline for a spot etf. we have futures etf. but there are some pessimists that put the probability or the possibility at zero. is there anyway given comments from sec chair genzler about, you know, there is no clear dlin yax of which agencies would control it or regulate a spot etf with the futures you have, you have an agency that oversees that, it's not going to happen, is it? for years, probably? >> hey, joe. no, i think the bottom of my jaw, i keep on saying, no, it's not going to happen. i mean, look at the markets. right? if that would happen, think about where inflation will go. they think about taking care of inflation by spending more money but drives more space for the bitcoin and i really, really
doubt with the comments, with respect to the late problems that it's ever going to go down to zero. >> what is the rational for not allowing a futures bitcoin futures based short etf that just, it doesn't seem logical that if you can have one of one side that it's almost like they're protecting investors from the possibility of ganging up on bitcoin, which maybe they'd be likely to do, if they're totally skeptical? >> it's always, anything that you have in control and you are ready, nobody is ready to lose control and they have always been like this we saw in the future, the day the future, basically the options came out for bitcoin like crazy, it was a limit to over subscribe i think that is what's happening, more and more people are really not valuing or trusting that currency over bitcoin and i think that is one
reason i think is the problem. the second reason i still think it is a lot of dynamics based on who really knows what and where do you extent that power to let things happen. i this i the lack of coordination out there is one of the major problems out there >> there has been all these sore data points that have caused a real bullish move recently to new highs in bitcoin and some of the other crypt as to currencies, whether we have the new mayor, mayor-elect in new york talking positively about it, and miami vying for the head of the center of the crypto world. but at the same time in the infrastructure bill, there is some really bad things for bitcoin in there are people ignoreing it? or it doesn't -- i guess it doesn't happen until 2024 and things can change. but could you go over some of
the provisions in there and they're pretty, they're not good for the space. >> first i want to say a big shout out to the mayor-elect from new york city to be so bold and say new york always does big things and he's going to take his next big paychecks into bitcoin. that's a big move for him. looking at the infra, joe. we talked about the before, too, you cannot tax non-custodial wallet you can not tax every part of moving also before every house has a modem and a router you can't tax them to provide wifi to your house this is one of the top ten things in the infrastructure bill you cannot go after people because if i'm a u.s. citizen, i'm paying income tax on the non-like non-reliant stuff out of crypto, if i'm sitting, i
don't. >> it's a longer conversation we will definitely have hopefully soon thank you. >> absolutely. >> "squawk box." will be right back >> salute to veterans veterans day terry bradshaw: hi, i'm terry bradshaw rocky bleier: and i'm rocky bleier. col. greg >dson: and i'm col. greg gadson. terry bradshaw: on this veterans day, our heartfelt thanks, to all of our military veterans for their service. col. greg gadson: we honor our veterans, anare no longer with us. rocky bleier: to all of our military serving around the world, thank you for defending the many freedoms we enjoy. terry bradshaw: tune in to salute to veterans for discussions about the issues our military veterans face daily. salute to veterans presented by sap, navy federal credit union, verizon, visit us online at www.salutetoveterans.org
a fund that gives me access hi, i'm ladonna. to the nasdaq-100 innovations, like real time cgi. okay... yeah... oh. don't worry i got it! become an agent of innovation with invesco qqq so, you want evs, you have come to the right place. is that tom brady? yeah. he comes in to recharge, get software updates. you know. let's go! ev maker rivian is now
larger than ford and if the pre-market gains hold, it will be larger than general motors. we'll take a look at where the stock is trading in pre-market ahead. disney under pressure after a media report exec sto scott rogers will talk about the slowdown but the consumer index came in red hot yesterday, it's the tenth biggest annual jump in america. the highest level we've seen in 30 years, 31 years, actually we will speak to the former acting chairman tyler goodsby about the great inflation today. the second hour of "squawk box." begins right now [ music playing good morning, welcome back to "squawk box.. right here on cnbc live from the nasdaq market, i'm
andrew ross sorkin along with becky quick and joe kernon take a look at u.s. equity futures right now. the dow would open 62 points higher the nasdaq looking to open higher as well about 102 points higher the bond market, though, is closed today in observance of veteran's day. we want to thank all of those that serve and continue to serve our country. a beautiful shot of the flag there in the middle of time's square outside of the nasdaq joe. >> let's get to dom chu for this morning's pre-market mover some we have already talked about. some i don't think so, dom, good morning. >> a lot out there i guess we have to start from the big one yesterday that's 85ian, theelectric truck maker the biggest in the united states here if you look at the 24-hour chart where we stand, 106 up in the pre-market at the open yesterday just after 1:00 p.m it opened at 106.75 to give you
a frame of reference it got up as high around $119.46 before kind of settling throughout the afternoon it's still, though, at these levels at the close yesterday were just around 98/$98 billion or so at the opening bell today if these gains hold, are you talking roughly $305 billion range making it yes market equity capitalization as well. we are keeping an eye on rivian. also, by the way, check out some of the ecosystem makers, there, tesla, the whoas they have seen over the course of the last few days with a lot of market cap shut off there but chinese ev maker nio up in the trade and fisker up as well and the nikola corporation up 1.16%. we will have john do err kleiner
perkins chairman john doerr he knows so much in this aspect of industry and autos. watch this interview and john doerr coming up on "squawk box.". also, keeping an eye on the movers in the after hours, they are tanking a loss the outlook comes in short of analyst's expectations, alternative meat taking it on the chin you see on the year-to-day basis shedding almost 40% of its value. we will keep a close eye and one last place on the opposite end of the spectrum. shares are soaring here for buy now/pay later, affirm holdings up 20% in the pre-market trade it's up 250% on the year it comes on the heels of better-than-expected results and an outlook that topped
expectations it says it's expand ac partnership with amazon to become the exclusive buy now pay late near the u.s. wallets for amazon pay as well so affirm holding soaring on those particular bits of news. but still a lot of stuff going on it seems as though markets kind of go up and down slightly but some under the current, you got a lot of big movers, joe, right? massive moves in the pre and post-market. >> is the day going to come, dom, where the big three are like not the big three it will be rivian, tesla, lucid? is that what we're looking at some day >> is is that your big three >> i don't know. i picked three, i don't know, i figure some of the legacy auto makers will be able do this well i got my eye on a tycan. >> that's your style i see you as a porsche guy
>> with a porsche sunglasses and everywhere i go say porsche, porsche. >> i would say this, from an ev standpoint, there is no doubt it's the wave of the future. all of these car companies have gone full bore into saying certain of their brands, if not all will be all by the year 2030, 2045, all ev, for me the biggest holdup, hiccup i v. you know me, i'm a car guy i got multiple cars. i didn't buy because i still don't trust whether or not i have access to a charging station whenever i need to once we get that going on, i might take the crossover into maybe a tesla or something like that >> so the day will come where i can't buy an oldsmobile or a pontiac or a plymouth. >> i am keeping all my internal combustion engines i think they will all be classics at some point >> thanks, dom they told me we got to go like a million times. that's why i kept going.
i enjoy that see you. the u.s. and dhoen are seeking a high stakes summit between president biden and president xi there is one issue that could complicate those talks kayla tausche is here. she has the story. kayla. >> reporter: good morning, becky. the virtual sums between presidents biden and xi is likely to happen next week with mr. biden fresh off the infrastructure deal the two sources briefed on the planning telling me the u.s. is bracing for president xi to invite wide on the attend the beijing winter olympics, now less than 100 days away g-7 nations are still discussing a possible diplomatic boycott of the games, where athletes, but not governments will participate. no final joint decision has been made on whether leaders will attend while it's customary for host countries to extend an
invitation, one by xi will be known as a dare, decline and put the relationship on ice or accept and anger allies and human rights activists that have called on the international olympic committee to postpone or relocate the games, citing china's internment of mus lick minorities the state department condemned those actions and flirted with a boycott. when asked to comment, a competent secretary blinken made yesterday that the relationship is complicated and consequential. who ill the white house says it will not be focused on deliverables it instead, says, it will focus on managing the competition responsibly between the two countries. >> kayla, that is a big deal it's something that will be in the focus rather quickly if you look at the timing on this what outs does each leader have if each gets tabled? what happens >> under some of the scenarios, it's been suggested if this invitation is tabled that president biden could
reciprocate and extend an invitation to the summit of democracies in december. that would give them an opportunity to mutually decline each other's events, president xi shunned all international travel this year because of fierce of tracking covid-19. if he gets wind that leaders could be a no show he could decline these events in his own country. >> this is a hot button at this point, right it will be a big deal and put a big spotlight on this and things could get even hotter. we've seen so much tension that's been playing out in recent weeks >> so much tension on so many fronts, becky, whether it is on trade, on the situation involving taiwan and certainly this is going to be a major diplomatic dance. no question about it but it is notable also in recent days the two countries have talked of progress in certain areas. there was an unexpected pledge to cooperate on climate that was announced just this week in glasgow. you also have the top u.s. trade
officials claiming progress and some discussions with their counterparts so we will see what actually comes of this meeting and what portion of it is opened to the public >> well, they are laying out battleships in the desert potentially bombs. kayla, thank you great to see you. what a fast inning dance i won't go to your party you won't go to my party it's something when we come back, streaming slowdown that's what we will talk about and disney adding 2 million subscribers after 12 million last month we will talk about the results in the broader streaming service sector fwhekt tom rogers before the break, though, we get a check on the markets "squawk" returns right after this is that tom brady? yeah. he comes in to recharge, get software updates. you know. let's go!
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dried up to a huge extent. what do you think that means for the stock? >> emwell, first, let me say, happy veteran's day and a shout out to my 95-year-old dad and korean war vet i think disney's earnings are not time to call in the marines, but they got a lot of issues here look, this is a stock that has traded off of headline number, their streaming subnumber. that streaming subnumber for the last few quarters has been driven off indian hot star subs, which are really cheap subs, but what was very apparent last night is that this is a function of cricketss in india, much more than it is a function of disney plus and as i said as a result of that, this is no way to measure the success. it wasn't a way for investors to look at it when the numbers were
going up, last night with the hot star numbers, not only not contributing but declining, it's no way to measure the success when those numbers go down >> what about the succession if we can't measure the subscriber numbers? >> the way to look at it is the amount of engagement, three, the sub, the extent of the program bucket going to streaming, four, how much their movie shoulder they're putting behind the streaming conversations. those are far more important to their overall success than this headline number driven by indian subs i will say, i have to get this off my chest this the a quarter to say it this is a company with a market cap of $300 billion driven off of headline number of subs, mostly disney plus subs. and we have no idea every
quarter how many u.s. disney plus subs there are. ultimately analysts piece that together but they aren't there talking about disney plus domestically we know it for hulu, because it's a u.s.-only service and espn plus because it's a u.s. only service here we are not knowing how many subs they get from the hulu, esmn plus, disney plus bundle. we don't know what the u.s. domestic growth s. when you reiterate 230 to 260 million as your number by 2024. exactly, without knowing what percentage will be the hot star subs and to what extent it will be to prized u.s. subs, i don't put a lot of weight into reiterating that number. >> in other words, it's a situation it's not the metric we should be doing but they are giving us, so it's live by the
sword? die by the sword >> i think that the what happened here. but the fact is those other metrics are not great. i this i they are declining in terms of engagement per household, both disney plus and hulu if you look at netflix's engagement per household, it's growing relatively quite considerably it's about six times that. the revenue per household is as i indicated is declining for did my plus. what i didn't understand is with the great advertising story for hulu, the quarter over quarter revenue per sub for hulu also declined so some of these other metrics, which we should be more focused on have not pand out as of yet particularly well either having said that, in two years, they've created a 20 billion run
rate revenue business in two years. that is an incredible accomplishment having said that, of that 20 billion in revenue, a good 30% of that is really low margin stuff ultimately from the huhly live bundle of cable channels that it comes from, from espn plus, which is going to be a low margin business and from hot star so, a lot here for them to confront still >> you talked about hulu i've always thought that's one of the last sort of unique chess pieces in this game, if you will, comcast plans to hold onto it a little longer at least. does that become a moving target in terms of a potential seam of that asset at some point potentially to a comcast or somebody else or do you think it ultimately gets wrapped up into disney plus? >> well, that's one of the
reasons why disposing the bundle numbers would be very help because i do believe that ultimately disney is going to have to put all these pieces together into a single bundle, selling them as separate service, with separate interfaces, separate consumer experiences, i don't think at the end of the day is going to serve them particularly well and the power of the combination of kids and family programing, adult programing and sports programing together under one consumer price interface, et cetera, i think it would be much more power coil cast holds the cards here comcast owns this, every day that goes by, comcast will get written a much higher check for its one-third interest here and hulu as a result today without disney really being able to get full control around it, one it's going to lose its nbc programming to peacock and, two, hulu's programing of largely
cable and broadcast programing that's put on the streaming service and cable and broadcast programing is in decline it's a less valuable source of programing and as a result, every day that goes by, the buyout gets more expensive and what's on there becomes less desirable >> tom, very quickly, after this news, how would you reestablishing all of these streaming services how many survive which ones are at the top of the pack >> well, netflix is by far around away in a dallas by itself i think despite disney being a more valuable market cap company, overall, today, i think netflix will ultimately end up in that mantle i think disney has been viewed as way ahead of everybody else and i think to some extent as i said with $20 billion of renew they've created, they are and they have a great brand name but everybody else has struggles here and a much tougher road ahead and the biggest issue
disney has is legacy issues have not come about i don't think this is the company that should be talking about meta this is a company with the best physical, real world experience through the park and that is not the right note to hit in terms of meta when you want people to show up and experience there i'll tell you, if somebody said to me, you have a choice between putting on the goggles and having the experience of all the rides and everything and avoiding crowds in lines versus going to orlando, i'm buying my whole family the googleles so i'm not sure that's the right note for them. >> meta is the new crypto, when companies start talking about interest and things out there. by the way, what is your dad's name >> michael >> so mike rogers, we want to thank him for his service, too, thank you to all our veterans, but your dad is special. thanks >> thank you still to come, ev maker rivian on a tear this morning.
we will talk to venture capitalist john bejork we'll talk to tyler goodspeed former acting cea chairman you are watching cnbc. >> time now for today's aflac trivia question. what year did congress pass a resolution for an annual observance of veterans day the answer when cnbc "squawk box." continues. $37 billion directly... [aflac!] that's a lotta money. ♪ did somebody say money? he said aflac. well if they're paying out billions of dollars to help cover unexpected medical expenses, what's the difference? coach prime. what... no smoke machine? [aflac!] looks like aflac is ready for prime time. [eh eh eh! eh eh eh!] hey, coach to coach... what do i need to do to get one of those jackets? ♪ get help with expenses health insurance
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"squawk box." would like to thank all who have served our country in war time and in peace. >> yes, we would we would very much like to thank all of you when we come back, more on "squawk. everyone wants a piece of the metaverse. we will have a preview >> is it the next big thing or completelyveyp orhe? we'll get into it after the break. ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪
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strong earnings from road blocks and unity software has intensified the conversation about the metaverse. but what is the metaverse? it should be investors are bullish on it. i am told this is actually john fork, you are here to weigh in on this. this is not a simulation are you not some kind of matrix thingy could you, i will see you just like stop like a -- >> well, no guarantees there you might see that that's head room style like kind of yeah but really it is to me, joe, i'm very excited about the
metaverse. it is an immersive 3d virtual space. the concept has been around, the novel, ready player one came out ten years ago. what is new, though, is technology is good enough, the digital experiences are high quality. virtual reality headsets are now affordable cloud technology makes it possible to create worlds that millions of characters can have. the most important piece is commerce early experiences like minecraft are immersive and social enough that young consumers in particular are ready to spend real money on digital merchandise. you combine that with transaction concepts and nfts. face b face book change i'd it to meta after avatar.
>> multi-player online games, they have been around a while. what pushed us over? smr the metaverse is the latest boondoggle to distract investors. angry old people spent the pandemic soiling democracy on facebook, young people socialized and game day together on maincraft and fortknight. the next gen gaming epic community are huge innovation and graphic processors from nvidia and apple intel are important. concept technology have a creative tissue to deliver this narrative has real successes like these and wishful thinking like the idea of main stream ar and vr headsets. we have xoom fatigue and they
believe the trillion dollar futures will cover our faces with interactive screens no thanks. there are some great ideas beneath this metaverse hype. but the overall metaverse narrative is more google glass than google search, joe. >> i think you just took a stand, john. i don't know you seem more animated about the ought hand side of this how do you think investors will tell the valuable parts from the hype >> well, joe, tech does this every once in a while. big tech companies decide to put a bunch of marketing ideas, sometimes it's too soon. ten years ago, part is cities and really it wasn't time for that yet you really got to watch where the demand is, where the end user demand is leading, not just, where oh, boy, if we want to connect all these dots, this should be what the future is the future that thinks things should arrive often doesn't.
>> we were talking about disney and throwing out the metaverse for disney where do you put that? if it's a tech thing, disney is out there, how do you evaluate that >> disney has genuine depth of concept. they bought up modern mythology in a certain way blue clunk metaverse, once this free marketing concept facebook and others are putting lots of ad dollars behind, everybody will pick it up and start using it in terms of depth, disney got gaming, movies, all these concepts they can build out their characters and worlds in there is money to be made there. whether you call at this time metaverse or not, put na aside >> john, if you google are we already in a simulation and look for physicists that argue this, i just googled this, there is a lot that have weighed in on this argument, you know what the chances are we are already in a sim laition? 50-50.
can you explain what that means if we are living into a simulation and go into the metaverse, are we back to weird? it's all too weird. >> my bet is you are living in a simulation, but i'm completely fine. >> okay. maybe that's possible. it's like anti-matter and matter all right. john, thank you, totally confused at this point something about this border situation in belarus and poland. coming up, chairman economic adviser under president trump tyler goodspeed will be our guest. we will discuss the latest social spending bill and check this out from goodspoo speed to god speed, nasa launched off a mission to the iss for a six-month stay six-month stay this is spacex's third operation for crew launch for nasa
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welcome back to "squawk box." this morning shares of ev truck maker rivian ended up 29% higher in the first day of trading shares are in the green this morning putting its market cap above both ford and gm joining us to talk about this and so much more is john doerr, chairman at kleiner perkins. he has a new book out called speed and scale, an action plan for solving our climb crisis before we get to that i want to get your thoughts on what has been these remarkable valuations for companies that are, frankly, not just in the ev space but relate to your underlying narrative around climate, john do these valuations make sense >> well, rather than comment on any of the individual valuations, i'll say the electricification of transportation is one of the sixth largest trends that we're
going to experience as we move from the fossil fuel polluting economy to the new clean energy economy. riff yoon as you know well has an order from amazon for 100,000 of its vehicles, starting delivery in 2023 i think rivian, tesla, they point the way to a massive transformation some 2% of vehicles on the road globally today are electric and the book argues and i believer with going to move to nearly 100% of our vehicles powered by batteries. >> but, john, as a venture capitalist who has talked about this as an inflexion point in investing in climate that feels to you like something like the internet in the early days, what do you think, just in the vehicle space, i'm thinking, how do you look at the quote/unquote tam, the total addressable
market because some people say, you shouldlook at how many automobiles are on the road and assume they all get replaced by evs and that's the market this that's the market, the valuations out there don't make sense. if you start to believe the vehicles, themselves, potentially become battery-powered generators for people's homes and all sorts o other things, then the dynamic shifts i think a bit >> well, i'm in the camp that believes they will become energy reservoirs and will change the way we live in a new low carbon future president biden declared that he thought the f-150 was a powerful innovation and this will not be limited to the new companies and new ventures alone it's a trend that has the entire global automotive industry on notice one analyst estimated that the
value of the market for just the electric batteries is $400 billion a year for the next 20 areas. so we will replace this oil and gas infrastructure with the electrifification of transportation >> you you this it's under vehicles so my question as an investor, we have a whole list of stocks on the screen, tesla, lucid, rivian and fefker and evgo and others, do you think this is a portfolio approach bet on the whole system and hope a couple of them win or is it more targeted than that is it not? >> you know, i'm reluctant to give other people investment advice i'll tell you my own approach is to try to focus on the winners, the ones that have the best management teams, the best strategic relationships and the best technologies. but the overall message here is some would say this is a bubble. i'd rather say it's a boom and
booms historically led to overinvestment to massive shifts in view to full employment, a rapid market development and competition, we're seeing all that. turning to my own investments, i fully disclosed them in this book it's resource number four. but the point isn't so much making money on the investment as it is swiftly and successfully transform the economy the what i the internet transformed the economy to this new climate conscience era >> hey, john, one of the things i wanted to ask you, it relates to the book is a comment steve swhartsman made two weeks ago. he said the focus on esg, the transition cost of that focus we are starting to feel i know there is a debate about that in terms of oil and energy prices, we're seeing them go up.
the, obviously, investment or frankly lack of investment in new drilling and the like may very well be good for the climate. in the short term, he suggests this could create real unrest. what do you think about that >> i think the transition to a new 13 energy economy needs to be managed as best as we can but this is not some kind of green kumbaya party we're getting. it's a real revolution and there will be winners and there will be losers. just as we saw in the internet era. you know at the start of the internet, i took some flap and kicked up a firestorm when i said the internet had been under hyped. ly say this about climate technologies i think they have been under hyped or at leastthey have bee under appreciated in terms of their importance for the planet, their importance for well-being, for national leadership, these large markets and for really pressing issues of equity.
>> john, you walk through an action plan in your book in speeding scale, of things that need to happen to how to decarbonize the grid and fixing food and removing carbon what do you think is the lowest-hanging fruit on your list right now >> the lowest hanging fruit is to stop deforestation. it's thegoal that talks about protecting nature. but every one of these six big goals is an awesome objective. we've got to proceed on all six of them in parallel at once to avoid a catastrophic irreversible climate crisis. >> and in terms of technology, is there a technology or technology company right now do you think is doing something that is just beyond i'm thinking particularly in the world of carbon captures, since that seems to be such a crucial element of making all of this happen >> carbon capture is a particularly hard problem. i don't have a win tore pick there. i think we need lots more
innovation i would say the equivalent of the microprocessor for this new energy revolution, there are breakthroughs in batteries there is a number of battery scale manufacturers and innovators that it's the battery that will let the vehicles go longer, allow them to be lighter weight and let them to be more affordable >> final question for you, john, a lot of energy companies, including exxon and others, i just spoke to darren woods about this as well, want to become low carbon and also want to get into the carbon capture business. do you think they will ultimately be the winners or the one who's ultimately do this or not? >> i do not think they will be the winners. and in most revolutions, technology or industrial, the incumbents have not emerged as long-term winners. >> i'll tell you one more thing before which close this off this whole plan that's available for free at the website speed and
scale.com, i encourage your -- smr speed and scale.com the book is called speed and scale and are you a legend in the business we appreciate you being with us here this morning. >> thanks for having me. >> thank you when we come back, former acting council economic chair under president trump tyler goodspeed will join us to talk about the latest read on inflation and taxes and the cisoal spending bill as well "squawk box." will be right back looking? with your qb's increased spin rate, any pass with a launch angle of at least 43 degrees puts sanchez in the endzone. you a data analyst or something? an investor in invesco qqq. a fund that gives you access to nasdaq-100 innovations like ai statistical analysis software. how am i gonna do? become an agent of innovation with invesco qqq. ♪♪
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the latest inflation data, putting more pressure on the feds to take action sooner the consumer price index surged in november, it hit its highest levels in 30 years former chairman under president trump, tyler goodspeed is a hoover institution fellow. tyler, thank for joining us. can you start by separating out and i'm not financial to ask you whether it's transitory or not, but what we are seeing right now, how much of it is tied to the after effect of the pandemic
and whatever the factors covid played in supply chain disruptions around the globe and how much do you think is actually self-inflicted by the way we're handling energy issues in this country and around the world? >> well, i think when you look back at the last times, a few months ago, that inflation hit this level, 49% month over month, a lot of folks said, well, if you look at trimmed need inflation, median inflation, if you strip out used cars, if you strip out need specific pandemic affected services, then actually the inflationary pressure isn't that substantial. if you look at any of those alternative metrics today, the inflationary pressure is substantially greater than it was just a few months ago, what i think is especially concerning to me is that there seems to be an unwillingness on the part of policy makers both at the federal reserve and the administration to even contemplate the possibility that some of this just some of this,
might be policy-related. >> if we're gooseing the economy and we're gooseing it left and right. we goosed it during covid with stimulus, we've had even more legislation after that, we got, you know, it hasn't been signed yet, but the infrastructure deal and we've got another deal possibly on the table and then you've got the federal reserve, which has been very slow to pull back on a combination. so you got all this stimulus at the same time, are you seeing increasing regulation in this country from the biden administration across a wide swath. so you are increasing demand and decreasing supply to the point now where any wage gains since january, we're now down 2% on wage gains so any progress that we've made on the wage front has been eaten up with cost of living >> yes, and that real wage point holds also, if you look back to 1970s, where real wage gains, especially at the lower end of
distribution lagged inflation. you mentioned the demand side and certainly there has been a ton of fiscal stimulus there are big transfer pages in the pipeline with the reconciliation bill. on the other hand, there is also, there are also policies that are actively lowering the supply side potential of the u.s. economy there is a massive increase in the child tax credit disen centivizing participation. there are marginal income tax hikes down in the pipeline that are not going to do anything to entice those older over 55s who exited the labor force early then on the business tax side, we have a number of predictions in the reconciliation bill that are going to disincentivize new capital formation. at the very moment that business investment is still cumulatively $1.8 trillion below trend over the past 18 months >> we've got the latest from senator manchin. it's not the latest. he has been saying it for a while.
inflation is on his radar screen he think as part of it is the result of proposed spending and at the same time i saw on one of the president's chief economists, one -- i think he used to ab vice president economist when joe biden was vice president jared bernstein saying we need this 1.75 trademark plan to lower inflation. is there any precedent any fuzzy matthew can use where that will be the end result of another really 4 trillion in susp spending >> i'm not seeing it they raise effective marginal income tax rate. when you look at the business tax provisions, whether on the corporate tax, the buyback surcharge, which is going to impede the reallocation of capital from cash-rich firms without profitable investment
opportunities to past poor firms, it will deter labor force participation and deter business investment that's not good for the supply side potential for the u.s. economy and is not good for easing the inflationary pressure >> at this point are we already on this path and eighth path that's struggling i don't know if anyone, not everyone remembers the late '70s/early '80s what that felt like when you dough see any wage gains evaporate with inflation then it seems to come home to rooms at gdp growth. that slows then we enter the worst case in both scenarios, that's stagflation. are we on a path in your view to an extended period of slow growth and high inflation? is it too late to save us? >> i don't at the moment see a replay of the stagflation, certain of the 1970s but when i look at the bond market, certainly i think the bond market is telling us that there is an expectation and i
think it's a reasonable expectation that inflation is going to remain substantially ele elevated we see is that when we look at the five and ten-year break evens. the bond market is telling us to anticipate very modest low growth, because even as inflation break-evens have been rising, nominally yields have been falling which to me says we are in for very slow growth with inflation still quite elevated. >> i mean, it's been pointed out when inflation levels were where they are now, interest rate were like 8%. fed funds 8% mortgage rates 10% and maybe we remember voelker and what happened to break the backs of inflation, but we're not doing anything right how can you possibly think you will bring inflation down when you are just starting to talk about taper and not even raising rates? how are we responding to this threat right now >> it is pretty staggering to
consider that between now and the anticipated end of the taper, the federal reserve is going to add another half a trillion dollars in asset purchases into financial markets and the overnight real fed funds rate is effectively negative 6%. that is pretty staggering. >> well, i just don't see how it end. where did you say you are seeing in the bond market there is an inflationary fear? we went from 141 on the ten-year back at the 155 -- >> the break-evens implied by the difference between regular treasury securities and the treasury inflation protected securities we just yesterday saw the five-year break even go over 3% and we saw, which i believe is the highest on records since the early 2000s and the ten year ticked up to 2.7%, inching
toward 3 >> tyler goodspeed, thank you. we appreciate it we'll get back with you in a couple, i don't know when we can every month it's going to get interesting with these cpi people >> okay. coming up on the other side of this break, a big hour ahead we will have congressman john yarmuth to talk about president biden's tax hikes. and sofi technologies surging. we will dig through the highlights with the ceo. stay tuned you are watching "squawk" on cnbc
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don't do business without it. good morning, rivian, ev company has yet to rule out any cars on a wide scale is now worth more than ford and general motors we will bring you the details and tell you who benefitted the most meanwhile, disney is taking a leg lower this morning fears over a slowdown in streaming growth denting shares of the entertainment giant but in the green column is sofi, the green tech company are surging. we will talk with the company's ceo anthony noto on inflation and third quarter results, and
so much more as the final hour of "squawk box." begins right now. good morning welcome back to skwux here at cnbc live from the nasdaq market site in time's square, virtual hub of human activity every day now. i'm joe kernon along with becky quick and andrew ross sorkin u.s. equities are rebounding from a few quick sessions we saw. if that's all we get for the highest inflation in 31 areas, i think we should be happy these last two couple of days down from all-time highs in the bond market, it's closed today for veteran's day, like i said, it backed up to a very hot 1.55% on the ten area
so, none of that really indicates a huge problem for them >> did you hear brian telling them, making the comparison, which was affluent, the last time we talked about it this high, you were talking the yield at 8%. >> tyler goodspeed i don't know if you plan, if the fed is who is in charge of dollar stable or fixing or trying to dampen inflation, we're not, that's not happening yet. >> it's not happening. >> not happening yet i mean, there is plans to make plans to make it happen, but do we think that jay powell wants to be at another term, therefore, he is playing ball with fed policy? >> you know, look, i think he did the right thing during the pandemic by stepping up and stepping in, where it was absolutely needed, but i have talked to a lot of people who kind of have the supposition,
yes, i brought this up with leishman yesterday, if you talk to people, they think when and if he's renominated, maybe he steps things up more quickly and deals with this problem if it's still really evident at that point. >> right >> they say something about, you know, when he's exited all the stock editions, i will not say that i'm not going to go there. >> let's get to some of today's top business stories we are watching shares of electric vehicle rivian, it popped 20% in the first day yesterday. it gave it a market evaluation of $89 billion as of last night. it was slightly less than general motors then you know today's pre-market move as well, that makes rivian now worth more than gm yesterday's ipo ranked as america's biggest since ali baba if 2014. also benefiting yesterday, you had amazon and ford which of course are heavily invested in rivian i think ford's stake at 12% is
about $10 billion. amazon's 20% so that's an even higher number. we're also watching shares of des e tesla after shares of elon musk pulled the trigger and sold nearly $5 billion of stock, according to new disclosures out last night tesla shares have been under pressure since musk told his twitter followers last week asking them if he should sell a tenth of his stake criminal cramer pointed out the shares came down as you had rivian coming in, maybe electric vehicle owners sold some and tesla put some in rivian, too. that stock up by two and a third percent. spacex essentially launching for astronauts into orbit last night. the crew three mission for nasa is spacex's third so far they are headed to the international stay station for a stay of about six months we are also keeping a close eye on the broader markets and disney also after it big fourth
quarter misses last night. mike santoli is covering the markets, while julia vorsden is on >> you are right, the market has actually taken a lot of the big macro kind of numbers in stride. the stock moves are violent in reaction to earnings, the index at max was less than 2% from the interday high. that was early friday. we came into the week saying markets were running hot on win strikes, probably needed based on probabilities to cool off a bit, if it wouldn't going to be an aggressive meltup a key pointing to this six-month line we bump up against it. before you have to say this is more than kind of a routine pullback take a look at some inflation protections on the commodity side and real asset side obviously, not the main drivers of the consumer price inflation upside but when you talked about
overall commodity index as well as the real estate sector, the s&p 500, they flattened out. you don't necessarily want to call a top here. but it has been a few weeks since crude oil made an aggressive new high. this is one of those indicators where it will be potentially, if it need at all, you will have inflation off the side, which is being driven by the supply and demand mismatches and pandemics, statistical effects. largely to me, that's the expiration why the markets are able to handle it. on speculative growth side, it's kind of interesting if you take a look at fintech as well as the arc invest kind of basket of stocks as well as ipos, which we talk about a hospital. they peaked in the early part of this year. they've not gotten much elevation relative to the overall market on a sustained basis. they're all below where we were trading at some point in late summer this suggests there is
volatility in the market, especially when you look at fintech in the crowded space and the smaller ones to me this is a little gut check on the most aggressive parts of the market and the overall take is managing so far to handle it. because the cyclical groups are holding together guys >> i just wonder, mike, if there is a, i don't know, there has never been a tipping point it's almost like the fed and the accommodative stance kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy. you know, we see these numbers, highest inflation in 31 years. we see some other troubling supply chain issue we see all these things and part of it is the fed but the answer to why the mark doesn't go down and take it soares also the fed. it's like, how does the fed orchestrate a bond bubble? well, they can orchestrate a bond bubble when they don't taper until it seems like it's
already too late >> well, if you look at really the kind of specific nuances and what the bond market is suggesting, it's saying, there is a higher ploeblt the fed is going to raise rates two or three times next year. if it does so, it will be successful in restraining inflation. that's why longer-term yields are not moving it will probably moderate growth along the way. that's a lot of iffed stacked up together not so much people are buying bonds with glee because the fed will be there. it's this calculation of where the inflation is coming from, whether it will be sustained and an ability to say with nominal gdp growth of 10% of what it will be this year. we have the most profitable companies in the world still growing next year, you know, what are we actually going to panic about here it's a little too early for statistic am reasons to say that this is some kind of sustained bulge in inflation >> okay. all right. thanks see you, mike. meantime, let's talk about streaming and disney reporting
quarterly results and disney plus subscriber numbers that fell far short of expectation. we will go straight over to julia boorstin that saturday down on a first on cnbc video. julia. >> reporter: good morning to you, andrew. that's right, disney missed expectations on the top and bottom line and disney plus added 2.1 billion new subscribers in the quarter that was in line the with slowdown warned back in september. it was far less in the 9 million analysts forecasted that disney plus would add he told me the company is still on track to hit the 2024 target. >> we re-affirmed our guidance of 230 to 260 million households we believe there are two primary drivers of that growth the first one is going to be the expansion into new markets we're going to double the number of marks that disney plus is in, in international territories, by fiscal year 2023 and the second
components, obviously, going to be new, fresh content across all of our wonderful disney franchises >> the future of disney plus could be a lot more interactive. here's what he said when i asked him about the hottest topic in tech, the metaverse. >> well, my vision is to use disney plus as the platform for the metaverse. i think it really blend our physical beings with our digital beings and creates a three dimensional canvass for them to point otherwise a park experience or its movie experience, or it's a book experience i think those all come together without boundaries, without borders, without constraint and our creatives are just biting at the bit to get into the disney metaverse. >> you can find more from my interview with chapek and the impact on supply chain constraints as well as the
future of theatrical movie releases on cnbc.com >> so we have been talking all morning about whether the really the move in all of streaming and the valuations assigned to it, the amount of money that's been poured into this space ultimately is going to make sense and whether this is now raising questions about that >> reporter: women, i don't know if this is going to raise questions about that, if they do, in fact, hit those long-term targets. i think one of the factors at play this past quarter is that because of the pandemic, there were production delays those production delays meant there was less new content on disney plus and they rely on that new content to draw new subscribers, if this quarter really was the result of pandemic interruptions, then i think that the company is on track and this is a company that's transitioning from being a linear company to a direct-to-consumer relationship. to me it comes down to that question >> okay. julia boorstin, always good to
see you. thank you. becky. when we come back, thanks, andrew an interview with s sofi ceo anthony noto. next the infrastructure deal is a done deal. what about president wide ons build back better? we will talk after the break what representative john yarmuth sees amanghes ki t final cut stay tuned you are watching "squawk box," and this is cnbc
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president biden's build back better plan has changed multiple times over the last several weeks, house speaker nancy pelosi says she is confident a vote will happen next week while the president acknowledged it's unlikely the bill will lead to a corporate tax hike, it includes several rate increases, including one making over $400,000 a year, joining us to talk more about the proposals on the table, kentucky john yarmuth chairman of the house budget committee. it's not a -- there is not a wall between the house and the senate, but i know that, you can only be concerned with, you
know, what's going on in your own chamber, congressman, but the manchin problem seems to have gotten actually a little worse for democrats. either after the latest inflation data or maybe after the virginia gubernatorialer election he seems to be more set in his insistence that we should wait until we see on the inflation rate, maybe until next year. are you seeing that? >> he certainly has gone out of his way to throw down a marker and i really don't understand why he's doing that. people do know that he has problems with the bill but i think we're all convinced that in the final analysis, both senator manchin and senator sinema will recognize that not only is this an incredibly
transformational investment in the american people that the american people truly want, but also that it will pay dividends not only the next ten years but down the road and this is one thing i think people have lost sight of many investments, particularly on the infrastructure side, also some of these other ones in the build back better plan will only be scored or evaluated as to the budget for the first ten years many of them will pay dividends for many, many years to come but we're convinced that the build back better plan, when the cbo has a full score, will show that it not only is fully offset on the revenue side, but also actually may include some deficit reduction. so that i think when that report comes out, i think senator manchin's fears will be aswasuad a little bit.
>> what do you think will happen on voting day 2021 not just in virginia but the close race in new jersey and some of the other even state legislatures and some of the proposals? can you explain what happened in a way that makes you feel that the american people are just gang busters for spending another whatever you want to call it 1 and three-quarter to as much as $4 trillion >> yeah. thanks for that question i think there can be a lot of different interpretations of what happens mine and i think this is shared by our political viewers is that democratic voters stayed home. a lot stayed home out of frustration that we weren't acting quickly enough. so well, i know there are some of our members who really are defensive when the republicans scream socialism and all of this stuff. i think most of us realize that the people who gave us the
majority in the house, gave us a tie in the senate and gave us president biden last year were expecting action a little faster that's despite the fact that earlier this spring we passed the american rescue plan, which in addition to putting $1,400 in most american's pockets put city and state governments on much sounder financial footing and they're being able to now to provide many more services for their constituents that they weren't able to do before. so, anyway, i think it's really the same fights that we've seen look like you know the narrative in the media that the democrats are in disarray. all of that i think discouraged a lot of democratic voters from coming out >> kind of like polls and things change so much in aer 82, congressman. i understand that. but when you ask americans about heading in the right direction, 70% say wrong direction. and you know we've got some of
these inflation numbers, we got some other i don't know take your pick. if the other side republicans got about ten things they will throw at you, the border, the supply chain issues, gasoline prices, inflation, usually the president's party loses quite a few seats in the house in the election, the mid-terms after that but they're talking 60, 70 seats possibly or even a new record. i know i'm talking about someone in that party. >> but does that mean just even though you are in the face of all that, that's happening, you just rush to do even more of what may have been causing people to get disillusioned in the first place or before you are all out of office, you are not running for re-election. are you like a kid, you are like a kid, you are, you got chuck grassley running for another six-year term. he's almost 90-years-old and you are not running again. >> i know.
not many people remember sandy kovacs, but i'm very sensitive to knowing when to get out you want to get out. >> you are in your prime a great golfer, too. you want to get to be a plus handicap, i guess? >> well, i'd love to i have shot my age twice in the last month so those were the first time so i'm excited about that. >> not on a par 3? not for nine holes >> not on a par 3. you are absolutely right, that those risc that are out there. that's why one of the critical things that we have to do is to make sure that if we pass this bill and i am confident we will, that build back better bill and we have not passed the infrastructure bill that we get out and talk about it. this is something that all democrats are saying now but it's absolutely true we have to convince the american people that we have acted. so far, almost all of the narrative on the build back better act has been the top line
number and not on things like child care and pre-k education and senior care and climate policy and all things that, yeah, the american people want >> congressman, it was a great story by kneel irwin in the "new york times" over the weekend with the headline "americans are flush with cash and jobs they also think the economy is awful. how is it possible -- is this a messaging problem? how is it possible the stockmarket is doing as well as it is? that the real economy, to a large degree, looks like it is doing well i think inflation is a real issue, however, yet, the approval ratings and poll numbers for the administration and for some of your peers and colleagues is -- doesn't seem to reflect that >> right you know, andrew, i think that , that those numbers are not only a reflection of how people are feeling financially. i think they are reacting to what they look at as a chaotic
situation and all of the factors that were mentioned, things like the supply chains and gas prices and so forth but, so, i think those are the numbers that can be reversed but again, we have to get -- i think we have to get these things passed. some of these things won't go into effect immediately. people won't feel them you won't see all of a sudden bulldozers everywhere because of the bipartisan infrastructure bill that's going to be money that's going to be spent over the next six, seven-to-eight years and on the build back better act side, the one thing people will feel immediately is parents who will get that $300 check every month as a part of the expanded child tax credit that itself the kind of thing that they'll feel immediately. again, we have to make sure that we did it, republicans opposed it and that's our responsibility here if we don't do a good job, we'll take a beating next year
>> all right congressman, as you can feel the excitement in kentucky whenever you get that tip-off for this time of year can't you? >> that's right. >> what is it? is there something in the water there? what is it >> i think it is unfortunately, our political environment has begun to resemble our basketball loyalty some you are either blue jersey or red jersey. you hate the other side. and that's unfortunate especially in sport. >> you stole our guy you stole him. you did. >> we stole him. >> you did mean, nasty. you did. all right. >> i plead guilty. we're happy to have him, too >> and then the ucla guy is from cincinnati who is just taking that team, too maybe cincinnati is where it comes from. >> right >> yes all right. thanks, congressman. >> thank you, joe, good to see you. coming up, when we return, the new wealth of ev company rivian ceo. he made a lot of money
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to satisfy tax obligations related to an exercise of stock options at the table yesterday i spoke with citadel ken griffin and asked him what he thought of muck polling his twitter followers on whether he could sell 10% of his stake in tesla. >> i never thought we'd let our ownership stakes be dictated by a poll on twitter. but i think it was a move by him to highlight some of the issues at play, with respect to why his tax policy we don't want tax policy to drive great entrepreneurs like elon out of their seats. if you think about it, it's a tell e relatively small viewers radically changed our society over the last 20 years much for the better. some for the worse but these individuals like elon musk, like jeff bezos have transformed life we want to keep them in control of their companies as long as they got the energy and ambition to keep the business moving forward. >> you don't want to see him
selling it >> i personally don't want to see him selling. >> i asked ken about another crypt to currencies, here's ken's take on the future of bitcoin. >> i think we're going to see bitcoin be replaced conceptually by the etheriums, replaced by the next generation crypto currencies that will have higher transaction speed, lower costs per transaction. perhaps people start to think of how to deal with security and fraud prevention better. >> are you not worried you missed it, youmissed the train >> i'm not worried about that. >> you think the train will go the opposite way >> i think the train is still in some sense at the station. i think we're trying to understand, if we want to hit this world of decentralized finance,we want a payment system that's low cost and effective. if it going to be solved by the crypto community or for example by a digital dollar? >> i don't know if the bit koinl bulls will like that explanation.
they will think the is a part of the old school version of finance, becky, what do you think? >> old school versus new school, i mean, there is even a middle class in that we will talk to sofi about that. what do they think about robinhood versus the other things that come up, too things are changing and evolving pretty rapidly interesting, especially about his thoughtsabout wanting elon musk and other inventors and investors. >> they keep hold zplg they keep holding. all good stuff, andrew, thank you. when we come back with relive with sofi ceo anthony noto, they are better than the street is expecting. we are talking cptryo and much more you are watching "squawk box," this is cnbc
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posting a smaller than expected third quarter loss and revenue above the street's expectations. you see that stock up almost 16% this morning anthony noto joins us for a first on "squawk box." interview. we mentioned the better than expected numbers maybe two of the areas that jumped out for people in terms of the membership 2.9 million members from 2.6 earlier products 4.27 million verse 2.67 million an earlier quarter those are two areas keying off things what happened where you found membership growth and secondly where all these products are you are putting out there? >> thank you, becky and first responders around the world that have given their lives or defending our country or have previously defended or country i want to acknowledge all them on this veterans day it's a special day for sofi. this culminates a year of us
achieving many milestones in an all out sprint the results yesterday reflect the hard work over the last four years. we had record revenue, we were able to deliver that because we had an undiversified business. because companies fell short of expectations because they're only in crypto or trading or only in lending or benefits disproportionately from staying at home and reopening trade, we have businesses that benefit in all those different environments that's why we hit record revenue. on the member and product growth numbers, everything is coming together our marketing, our product, our ability to communicate in our app to our members to help them get their money right by giving them more personalized offers. we're the only one-stop shop for digital financial services so it allows us to meet members within they have a need. we want to be there whether it's the post-important financial decision in their lives and the days in between. that ability to service them across the product selection is helping them, communicating that
building trust is starting to plan. >> your product growth outstripped even your membership growth so explain, walk me through that what type of products would you be offering to a member that maybe they would pick up on? >> sure, we are a one-stop shop on a digital mobile platform the only one i know of we provide loaner financing, mortgage, unsecured personal loans and in school loans. we provide workers of single sok stocks, fractional shares, six of our own etfed customized for our members and their need we were named the number one adviser by behrends. in addition to that we offer crypto currency and have pa product sofi money, which like a checking or savings account, you can pay all your bills or your friend we also have a credit card in addition to that, we provide home, life and auto insurance. all these products, we want to meet our members when they have a need and build trust with
them best of breed products, when they have a second need we have that product for them. so members and individual and products and the number of services they have with us relative to members. >> anthony, you mentioned in the release, you were able to come out with stronger numbers despite a depressed arena for student lending. walk us through each of those areas, where you see big growth, where you see areas overall trouble like in student lending? >> sure. so the president, former president trump in march of 2020 made an executive order, where those with federal student loans did not have to pay their loan payments for the foreseeable future that's been in place since march of 2020 and will remain in place until the end of january 2022. our business has been cut in half as a relation to financing since that time. we were able to deliver revenue of $277 million because of the fact that we have strength in our personal loans we've built a home loan
business that's still growing quite nicely we have a technology business that enables eight, nine million accounts, enables other institutions to create accounts like ours, so they can service their member%. all the products i mentioned are in our financial services segment. those are all growing very nicely so, yes, our largest and most mature business, student loan business is operating at less than 50% where it was prior to covid. the rest of the businesss have picked up the slack. they will drive really strong growth just as importantly, our outlook is calling for revenue growth to 49 and 59% we see the trend continuing. >> who are the new members who signed up over the last quarter? where are they >> we are focused on what i call high achievers not well served they have done well academically, professionally they have been left behind by our banking and financial systems. they don't have someone that can get their money right and teach
them the best in the 20s they tone have someone to educate them and how much debt they should take out for student loans. they're not behind the 8-ball based on the income they will generate after college they accrued too much credit debt early in life they need to refinance to a lower techl debt and they buy a house they can afford and will allow them to invest in their 30s instead of being behind the 8-bahama we are going behind millennial's and gen zs we hope to serve a broader audience we have to focus on them when they expand. we are seeing great adoption at the top of our funnel through every day products, like sofi money and people put in their direct deposit with us that gives us information to help you better manage your money. we may know if you are overspending and help you manage your budget through a plan planner. we know you are i paing a student leaner loan at a high interest rate.
or a bunch of cash sitting there doing nothing. we can help you invest that money so it startscompounding. >> you mentioned that there is no other place like sofi that has so many different products under one platform straight to you and digital. you compete with a lot of different players. robinhood has come under pressure, because it was more reliant on singular lines of be like crypto trading and other things what do you think of robinhood >> what i'd say, we have a unique strategy for either one of our members major financial need and the days in between it's impossible if you focus on one product or one period of your life. we have to focus on it all and big banks have walked away from that because they can't make money in certain businesses we believe we built a lifetime relationship over the life of that individual's experiences will generate long-term value and run on our investment. the modern line companies have to drive a huge scale to be successful some of them will do it.
some of them won't they'll be more volatile to changes in market conditions and more volatile to thanks that have set their trends like stay at home versus reopening so i love our business i love the breath of what we had. it's the result of actually deciding how to strategize and meeting our member's needs so the benefit of our low interest rates and high interest rates and staying home and refunctioning is serving the members at best and this gave us insulation relative to the issues you mentioned for other companies. >> there have been retail investors getting ahot of those shares of ipos you saw rivian skyrocket up more than 50% at one point before settling up close to 29% at the end of the first day of trading. how do you get access to more ipos for your retail investors >> yeah. we're really proud of our sofi invest product it's the only place you can buy the asset classes i mentioned, including the ipos
we were a part of the selling group, we had tremendous demand from our members it was very unique we're one of the largest retail arms for them. we want to offer issuers an ability to reach their constituencies, the people that are built on their business and rivian is a perfect case of that they chose us to be a part of their tell e selling group we went out and marketed the deal throughout the process and had demand about $300 million of aggregate demand, which is quite astonishing for a company our size and scale we want to help other issuers not reach their constituencys to build their business but bring ipoed to main street it's very rare that someone out in the popular america can get access to ipos and ipo prices and we're trying to do that for our members that want to join sofi. >> you started out thanking veterans for their service on this veterans day. i want to thank you for your service, a west point graduate, you served in the army before you started on wall street so thank you very much for your service to this company.
>> becky, i appreciate that. i want to give a special shoutout to sergeant mitchell. my first platoon sergeant when i joined the army in the early '90s he had a huge impact in my life. i can't help to thank those that served in my life. >> thank you, we'll see you soon. >> wow, a sergeant drop and give me 20 noto right now. >> are you no sergeant >> still, coming up, ev company rivian ended its first day of trading more than ford but can you name rivian's ceo? you will be able after our next segment when we tell you just how rich they got yesterday. stay tuned you are watching "squawk box." on cnbc live from the nasdaq's markets on time's square >>
. shares of electric car maker rivian surging in the wall street debut the biggest since ali baba back in 2014. that made yesterday a very good day for rivian ceo robert trent, joins us now with more hey, robert. >> good morning, joe lots of comparisons between elon musk and while muck owns more than 20% of tesla, r.j. owns only about 1.7% of rivian. rivian valued at $86 billion as of last night's close.
r.j. is now a billionaire. barely he does own 9% of the voting shares like musk, he has a moonshot compensation package that with options could make him billions because in january the board granted him a one-time option grant of 6.8 million shares and a performance grant of nearly 10 million shares that could all be valued at over $10 billion if the company hits certain targets along the way. now to get them all, the share price has to eventually go to 295 and he has to stick around until 2030 now, other big investor who's had big paydays yet, saudi billionaire mohammed abdul jameill. he has a stake worth $11 billion. the family that owns cop automotive, amazon is over 17 billion and ford's stake over $10 billion. joe. >> interesting, robert whenever we see things like
that, i wonder if anyone decided, okay, i won it, if they could, which they can, i'm sure that money is not there. that money isn't there to cash out. it's not real. it's not there plus, so, does scaringe automatically now not owe any taxes since he's a billionaire it drops to zero, that's the narrative, isn't it? do you think he'll ever pay another dime >> he will in 2030 when these options exercise like elon musk, he will pay. by the way, he only has to pay the illinois flat tax of 4.95% instead of california's 13.3 he is already smarter than elon when it comes to where he makes his options grants >> mit grad did i read that right i think? >> yes >> ph.d. >> started the company with a mortgage on his house and on his father-in-law and lived in an apartment, unlike elon who started with 1.5 billion from paypal he had that cushion.
r.j. really started with nothing. so this is a great story for him and the people that have helped him build this. >> it was until he became a billionaire. now, i don't think that's a great story now. now he's a part of the problem, obviously, a part of the problem. he was '07 sm and then '09 ph.d. god, almighty. isn't it amazing i think it's great what a great country except i still say he looks like percy. do you know percy fromthomas i the tank engine, the front of the rivian looks like, he's like, kind of smiling but sort of pensive almost. most like percy. >> joe, you will appreciate this last bist so he got his love of cars from restoring porsches >> wow. >> that's how he started out yes, when he grew up in melbourne, florida, a neighbor of his loved porsches, so they restored vintage porsches. his goal was to build a sportscar, at the last minute
people told him, you won't sell many of those. go into trucks, rvs, supers, so that's where he went it all started with a porsche. >> excellent wow, you know a lot. as usual thanks, robert >> all right let's get to the new york stock exchange jim cram crame jim cramer is standing by. let's talk about some of these big stock sales. we've been talking about elon. we knew this tax bill was coming, and then you have adam aaron, who ily will be selling a quarter of a million shares of amc. he hinted last august he would be doing this. >> adams has been basically working for free, this is a big chunk, but i think he made a very good case why he should and has to do it
i found it to be very straightforward. i know my paren david faber has questioned it. >> you know, i was kind of of the same opinion, but it looked like the first part of the tra tranche was preplanned could that -- could you say that that's what the poll tie into? >> that's a great clarity. >> i think we all -- if we had had an initial treat say it was a 5 b 1 perhaps, we would have
realized it was just a spoof for us you think the s.e.c. does anything >> they don't care they've been their hands full with crypto. i think they don't have time for this they have bigger fish to fry sorry to be so cynical about it. >> no, i think it's a question a lot of us have been kicking around, trying to figure out where we come down on this >> may we got played again >> i'll by watching portenoy at 5:00 p.m. and we'll be watching you in a few minutes. check out the cnbc investing
morning. a lot of green arrows across the board. specifically talking about the profitless rivian so far, and what that means about the broader market victor jones, head of global strategies, and emmy silverman good morning to both of you. victor, what do you make of this we've been talking about how literally the price tag, in terms of valuation of rivian, now higher than gm and ford. >> you know, around $85 billion. by the way, that's with ford holding $10 billion in their pocket, which is worth what their livian investment is worth right now. look, you can't dismiss the investor appetite for all things ev this is not just a tesla story this isn't a nio story or rivian, even lithium or l.i.t.,
the etf is up since may. all things ev there is an investor appear tide for i say this tongue in cheek, but this is a market that got -- people are searching for a cheaper alternative to tesla, but they want a more pure play exposure than gm or ford is it worth $86 billion? i would rather trade the relative value want. mary barra made some decent points yesterday, maybe the fact that rivian at $86 billion, should gm be an $86 billion? should ford be an only $77 billion company? short to my term, i would rather play the catch uptrade, though it's not exactly the sexiest. >> i go back to the same question i've been asking all morning, is all of this rational in the sentence that the
marketplace -- are we just talking about cars are we now talking about turning them into generators for your home what is the size of it is it 2x that? 1x that? what is it >> the total addressable market -- these companies are not being priced as oems that's my particular point here. you get an solar play, many things packaged into a trillion dollar company in tesla, look, all 21 companies in the s&p 500 in sector get a total valu valuation -- this is not an ev play so many as it is a pure play on alternative energy in the long run. >> amy, what does it say about risk appetite now?
and if we think inflation is upon us, that it would otherwise hit equities across the board, possibly including these kind of companies? >> yeah, you know, look, we've been watching that for a long time, andrew i can tell you the equity markets overall are not that concerned. there continues to be an upside momentum you know, when you look at something like rivian, it hasn't traded options yet will it behavely a tesla or lucid group, where there's an extreme, there's a lot of retail involved from that as well >> we've got to run, but it's remarkable victor and amy, we're going to leave it there we'll have you back. we want to take a quick final check before we throw it over to our friends on "squawk on the street." right now we are in the green. let's show you where things stand. you're looking at 43-point up
side on the dow this morning s&p 500 up about 18 points a lot of folks will be focused, of course, on they ev makers we have to make sure you join us tomorrow we want for wish all the vet advance in america today, we salute you and thank you for your involves. mosq service. "squawk on the street" begins right now. good thursday morning, welcome to "squawk on the street." happy veterans day, where we salute and thank the men and women who have served in the u.s. armed forces. stocks are trying to stabilize, we're watching the curve flatten. shares of disney are slumping on an earnings miss. >> plus we are keeping an eye on all those