tv Fast Money CNBC November 8, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm EST
its moment >> massive divergence has been the story. roblox, a $40 billion company before this move today so a lot of value already been built up right there >> we are out of time on "closing bell. thanks so much for watching. "fast money" starts right now. live from the nasdaq market site overlooking new york city's to times square, this is "fast money. we're tracking three stocks, we're breaking down the quarter straight ahead plus building gains. infrastructure stocks in rally mode as congress passes a massive spending plan. the names you need to have on your watch list. and later, a crypto breakout as bitcoin closes in on a new record we start off with amd
jumping into the metaverse, scoring a deal to supply semis to the company formerly known as facebook their biggest gain since july of 2020, closing at a record high names like xilinx, nvidia, all over up over 2%. are chip stocks the way to play the metaverse? dan nathan >> it's one way, certainly one way that investors have focused on it since mark zuckerberg renamed the company a couple of weeks ago. meta laid out their vision for what the metaverse is. we've all read about it, there's been a lot of snark aboutwhat exactly the metaverse is for the most part it's the internet the way it exists right now. you'll be using a lot more hardware, whether ar, vr, virtual reality. you'll be using native currencies like crypto and stuff like that. a whole host of things you're already doing like gaming and
social, put all together does nvidia deserve to be up 20% in two days and amd because they score a deal with meta, formerly facebook, up 10% today because of that? i don't really think so. i think it's great that they're taking share from intel which has owned these server chips for a long time. but a lot of it is happening very fast, a lot of buzzwords flying around. amd is about to overtake intel in market cap. i think most people who traded semis or owned semis for a long time thought that would never happen this stock is up, are you ready for this, 50% in a month right now. there is some disconnected things going on right here i just can't suggest that that would be a great time to buy it for this new amazing thing we're all beimmersed in very soon. >> i honed in on the word "buzzword" from dan, guy is this the new buzzword before it was crypto, you say
we're supplying chips for crypto and all of a sudden your stock goes up. is this another instance where chip companies will get rewarded for saying metaverse when it's really just the next generation of internet and it should be the next generation of chips is that where we're at right now? >> unfortunately it is and you probably have counted on one hand the amount of times i'll utter that phrase over the next year. that's me wishful thinking, that maybe i'm still here who knows? everything dan has said in terms of amd and nvidia is spot on amd right now is trading 45 times next year's numbers, probably close to ten times revenue, extended clearly. but we've been pretty steadfast in both those names. tough stay the course. i'm not suggesting to short anything here, but if you've enjoyed the ride at amd, today it traded at close to three times normally volume, this could be one of those short term
can capitulary tops. if you want to take a little money off the table, amd, and put it into qualcomm, that's not the worst thing in the world >> tim >> i like that call. i guess i tend to agree that the meta headline is not really what it's been about. it's been about for amd, first of all they went from nothing to being 86% of the market, they're eating intel's lunch they've got intel's customers. they've got google, aws, azure they're all customers and their data center chips are critical if you think about where they're going and they're competing with nvidia, nvidia's a100 chip is an ai chip. amd is going at them head on in ai, their ability to xuft f
compute faster and look at what's happening with nvidia. the headline as a sexy headline but i tend to agree with the guys here. i'll take dan's 50% in the last 35, 45 days, to 85% from july. so i do think the stock's had an incredible run the valuation is difficult and i think it's been a transformational time. >> looking at it from a facebook perspective, karen, renaming itself meta platforms signals its commitment to the metaverse and therefore its capital commitment to the metaverse. this may be a small -- i don't want to say it's a small contract it may not be a big deal in terms of amd's overall valuation, but this could be the tip of the iceberg in terms of future contracts and business from facebook which clearly has a lot of money it wants to spend on the metaverse >> right and obviously they're not the only one it seems to be like a modern day gold rush where the chip makers
are selling the picks and shovels and they're getting paid right now or in the next, you know, short order before the gold is found. so i think obviously facebook is going to be one of those whose cap x in that area will be gigantic but not the only one also, facebook wanted to not be called facebook anymore for many other reasons. but metaverse seems to be the focus now. long facebook, the valuation i think is attractive. i give mark zuckerberg the benefit of the doubt on being a steward of capital but as to the valuations, i feel like a lot of metaverse is starting to get priced in and we're very, very early in the metaverse. so i feel, you know, i agree with dan, which is an unusual position, but i feel like a lot of good things are priced in already. >> i think karen brings up an interesting point in terms of looking at the metaverse in terms of the different parts of how to get at that trade and there is the picks and shovels aspect, dan.
i'm wondering if at this point in time given that the metaverse is in relatively early stages, if that's the way to go, if one were to trade the metaverse. >> yeah, i think there's a lot of existing computing, you know, processes that are going to be definitely beneficial to a move toward the internet. it's going to be reliant on new hardware that hasn't actually been created yet, that's a really important point if mark zuckerberg and meta want to kind of subsidize that and are committed to a more open web 3, let's call it, infrastructure, then that's going to benefit a lot of us if it moves away from some of these centralized platforms. the big risks are these centralized platforms. it almost feels like mark zuckerberg, at least the way he's articulated this, might be can abanibalizing many parts of existing business. they've try to do a digital currency, haven't been successful yet there will be competing
processes, protocols, whatever you want to call them. that's what will be exciting about this i think karen just said it, you're probably getting a little ahead of yourself if you see nvidia up 50, 60, 70% in a month or two based on excitement around this. or amd gaining, you know, $20 billion in market share over a deal that we can't even quantify that doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of sense. >> let's get more insight from the technology sector specialist at jeffries. jared, always good to see you. >> thanks for having me back again, of course >> by no means am i a chip expert, i don't even play one on tv so i'm going to ask a stupid question amd, nvidia, what are they supplying in terms of how different these chips are from just viewing chips as sort of the next generation chips that fuel web 3.0 >> so if we take a step back, the quick answer to your question is absolutely yes,
these are the chip people. if we take a step back to facebook's earnings announcement, they guided their capex to $34 billion, that needs to be put in context, that's more than taiwan semiconductor spends in a year, that's the biggest in the world in terms of making chips the investment facebook is making is massive. they went out of their way to talk about artificial intelligence and machine learning chips and those chips that are best suited for that happen to be parallel processing chips which are gpus so the graphic processing units that amd and nvidia put out. so amd and nvidia are really in the sweet spot in terms of the trends that are happening at facebook in terms of incremental capex. this will not stop with facebook if you're another cloud confidence provider, microsoft has already endorsed the metaverse last week. if you're microsoft, if you're amazon, google, you'll see capex
follow this announcement facebook is at the forefront of this and you'll see billions and billions continue to be invested in terms of ai-type architecture >> jared, i'm also not a chip expert and not playing one on tv my question is more about, is amd re-rated based on the future or is it based upon that they really have taken enormous market share and essentially their data center chips and their processing chips today have, you know, eaten the lunch of not only intel but some of the other main peers out there talk about that valuation. >> absolutely. so i think both of those points are absolutely intertwined as noted, amd is sporting mid-20% market share in terms of core compute with respect to the server market. that's the most important end market it's stickier revenue. we're talking about the microsofts, the facebooks of the world. they've done an amazing job in terms of the an execution
standpoint they announced milan x, the mi-200, the gpu that goes against nvidia their next generation data center chip comes out next year. not only is it about the market share that has already been established but its investors will look to subscribe to that multiple i'm sure amd is not planning on stopping on 20%. their number one competitor is clearly wounded while amd is able to leverage and adapt ahead. everyone on this show has talked about bricks and mortar. you look at the entire supply chain, taiwan semiconductor is amd's largest producer these chaps aips are massive, wh we can get into. >> in terms of what the spend could be on metaverse chips, and how much of that is actual new
spend or replace spend in other words, you know, no longer spending on whatever prior generation chips and shifting that spending forward >> for sure. so if you go back to facebook's announcement in terms of them increasing, they're up to $34 billion in calendar 2022 zuckerberg and sheryl sandberg on the call, we're talking about revenue generating opportunities in 2030 and beyond that capex profile is going to go up and to the right from here and that baseline is up 70% into 2022 then you add on spend from microsoft, from google, from amazon, anyone who plans on entering the metaverse you think about videogames and how that could play into the mix, we're talking about a number that could be hundreds of billions of dollars in terms of the infrastructure specifically to your question, mel, the chips getting produced, i alluded to this earlier, but these chips are in some cases five to eight times larger than
the chip that goes into your cellphone. we're talking about chips that are 800 to 1,000 millimeters square these are monster chips. the semiconductor capital equipment will supply this in a major way. >> thank you so much, jared. so there's picks and shovels and then there's picks and shovels for the picks and shovels players, guys. where would you want to go >> first of all, i love the fact that amd has the italian cities with the chips, milan and genoa. >> i wondered why you had a cheshire cat grin on your face >> a name like roblox, i know you remember this, we talked about in the cnbc draft, that stock being one of the first names that should have gone. look at the quarter they just put up and look where the stock is trading now
there are clearly plays. i particularly don't think it's going to be facebook, yes, i called it facebook, and i think, as i mentioned, amd, it's time to take some chips off the table. in the long run amd and nvidia still work qualcomm is still the cheapest out there. >> the names getting a boost after the house passed a $1 trillion infrastructure package. tim, you're saying the resource names are particularly strong. >> well, and we've certainly known about an infrastructure bill for some time we've also just come through an earnings season where a lot of these folks have talked about both capex and opex and cash flow generation. really, with a lot of the core commodities, whether you are even a steel producer at this point, yes, you've seen a little bit of a pullback. but ultimately we're near if not all time highs, we're right near all time highs again, i think this has been a remainder. it's a reminder that we're actually seeing followed through
on specific plans that still needed to be ratified. i think if you look at the valuations in the sector, again, you don't buy commodities and resource stocks when they're cheap. but they're starting to run. we're starting to challenge those highs from back in march when rates were higher and that was a common trade now you have information on the profitability and you have the tailwind of infrastructure i think you stay in that trade >> karen, some of the industrial names you hold rallied also. >> well, actually united rental opened and traded up to 415, which is way, way, way higher than it's ever traded. it did end the days on a low, it was only 60 cents, something like that. for them it was clearly a buy the rumor and sell it first thing in the morning of the news so i'm still long united rentals. they had a great quarter a lot of the reasons that they had a great quarter will be further accelerated by the -- we'll see how long it takes to implement the infrastructure bill, but also one of the things that really worked for them is,
they have a giant inventory of used machines which are trading at very high prices. a lot of things to like there. this run-up may be a little too hot. coming up, some after hours action in shares of amc and paypal, both stocks on the move in earnings. conference calls under way right now. all the details, next. plus to sell or not to sell, a question elon musk is asking his twitter followers. it sent shares lower today we're ggg tohectn diinin t aio when "fast money" returns. eals - including the iphone 13 pro with 5g. that's the one with the amazing camera? yep! every business deserves it... like one's that re-opened! hi, we have an appointment. and every new business that just opened! like aromatherapy rugs! i'll take one in blue please! it's not complicated. at&t is giving new and existing customers our best deals on every iphone, including up to $800 off the epic iphone 13 and iphone 13 pro.
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julie boorstin is listening into the amc call but we'll kick it off with kate rooney with fresh color from the paypal call kate >> that call is still going on with a miss on revenue, lower on guidance as well, but they did beat on eps. headlines confirming our earlier reporting that paypal will be adding equity trading early next week schulman says walmart is accepting paypal payments as well paypal announcing a partnership
with amazon to let customers pay with venmo on amazon's e-commerce site. also some profitability stats on venmo, they have 80 million users total. we don't get total user numbers every quarter, so that stands out. they're on track to bring in $900 million in revenue this year schulman also saying venmo will be transaction margin positive for the year so some profitability stats there. the headwinds for paypal are really still all about ebay. revenue growth for the year was 13% from the same time last year but it was 25% if you strike ebay from that equation. i spoke to dan after the numbers crossed, he told me ebay amounted to basis points after pressure from the quarter. how about this analogy, melissa, he said it's a little bit like getting a pig through a python, quite the visual there he said this quarter was the maximum impact of ebay on our
results. and it will be primarily behind us after two quarters or so. the take rate, 1.8% for transactions total take rate, 1.9%, a key metric analysts were really watching going into this call. the call is still going on, everyone is looking for details on paypal's m&a strategy. dan schulman says they're still looking for a digital strategy no news yet on the m&a front i'll bring you guys any headlines. back to you. >> kate, i now you reported ove the summer that paypal was looking to get into the equity business, i wonder if you know from this call how they plan to do it, if they will compete with ro robinhood, et cetera >> he slipped it in there, he said among the things we're adding next year, equity trading at some point in 2022. we'll see if they go that route or partner, we've seen with
venmo adding cryptocurrency capabilities, they may end up doing more of a partnership model versus robinhood doing more in-house. we'll see what it means for paypal's bottom line >> thank you, kate rooney covering paypal for us dan nathan, what do you make of this >> yeah, i think we've been talking about this since thata s ago, about them paying $45 billion for pinterest. i'm not sure what sense it made for paypal we know some of these trends that accelerated during the pandemic are decelerating. one of the issues with a valuation they have, how do you get those going again? new partnerships are great, but i'm not sure about buying a platform like pinterest. i guess it's disappointing when they say this amazon deal should help, pay with venmo is
going to important i'm not sure it makes sense on a platform where you have ten different ways to pay on amazon. it's going to be very competitive. to me, that just seemed to be a bit of window dressing the stock is at a very crucial spot, down 27% from recent highs. and really in this kind of 230 level or so, it really looks like there's room to the downside if it doesn't find some puts here. >> your kathoughts, karen, on either paypal or this move to equities >> i don't know what to make of the move to equities, actually. i don't think it will be that meaningful for them. part of a bigger plan, i guess looking at the stock, the company was clearly a beneficiary of the pandemic, everybody turning to e-commerce and them being in the middle of that in addition, the stock was a beneficiary of e-commerce valuations so now that the sentiment is that we're coming out of that, and the mix also to more credit than debit, you know, that should weigh on them
when you trade a high valuation, there's really not room for just a tiny bit soft earnings it's a great company, but i think i don't feel a need to jump in right now. let's turn to amc, shares are sitting at pretty much after-session lows, sitting at 5% the call is under way, let's get to julia boorstin with the details. could we get in on the call this time, julia? a lot of people are wanting to get in on this call. >> yeah, they did make a note, aaron saying he wanted to welcome in all the individual investors listening in the stock is trading down, despite the fact that amc beat expectations on the top line with revenue of $763 million that did beat expectations of $708 million and a 44 cent per share loss was nine cents smaller than the loss that was anticipated the ceo, adam aaron, reiterated the company is encouraged by results at the beginning of the
fourth quarter but here is why the stock is trading down aaron issued a note of warning, saying, quote, even amidst such good news we're not yet where we want and need to be. we wish to emphasize that no one should have any illusions that there is not more challenge ahead of us still to be met. the virus continues to be with us we need to sell more tickets in future quarters than we did in the most recent quarter. now, on the call just now, he did sound optimistic in general. he talked about they've upped their alternative content. that includes football games he talked about how they've launched a spotlight on horror movies and are bringing back old fan favorites, all part of a plan to get more alternative content, more things that aren't first run movies in those theaters he mentioned of course cryptocurrency, how they're working to accept cryptocurrency in more ways and even working to accept shiba ibu
>> are retail investors dialing in, is this on youtube >> it's on their website i'm looking at it right now. this is on the amw website you can log in and listen to it. i'm streaming it on my computer right now. >> julia, thanks, julia boorstin stock is down 6.5% it should be interesting how this call goes with 80% owned by retail investors guy, what are your thoughts here >> it's not an earnings story, which is why i find it fascinating that people are flocking to the call it's worthy for the entertainment value for sure listen, $138 million net cash flow, free cash flow loss, not great on a revenue number, what, $760 million none of the numbers really make sense. but it's not about earnings, it's about everything else the stock has held really well, north of 40 again. people are playing it for much
different reasons than the fundamentals by the way they have $1.8 billion in terms of liquidity. let's put it this way. there is definitely room to the upside based on the quarter. >> the stock was up 21% in the past month, it's had a nice run into this quarter. i wonder if it's a little bit of sell the news sort of pressure here >> it's had a nice run but it's been largely in a range since the last spike and where they had the raise and they ultimately had bolstered their balance sheet, and they've said we're exploring different ways to grow our business i wouldn't -- i'm not going to bet against that stock in terms of where it's going to go. i think the fact -- guy hit the nail on the head, i don't really care that we're at 90% of pre-pandemic, i don't really care about the theatrical recovery, other than good for actors and actresses and other folks there that are back to work what we've seen, in reddit stocks and whatnot, is that once
the balance sheet has changed, and we know this just from staring at companies over the years, this company has enough support, the ceo has a following within the retail community that every negative thing he says as a disclosure and disclaimer seemsmbolden the stock i admire the creative ways to bring in new revenue streams but it's not really a movie story. >> it's not a movie story. nor does it want to be a movie story in the future, karen i think that, you know, the thought here, as tim had mentioned, maybe we should never view it as pre-pandemic, what the business was, where the business is going, because it wants to be in another business. adam aaron may have a little leeway to figure that out. >> he might. the story of amc surviving is a movie in itself, it would be a fascinating one. you know him as well as anybody.
i agree with tim about him sort of issuing a word of caution to shareh shareholders he says it and people say it's perfunctory, there are always risks. it allows him to actually say, hey, we got a lot of real challenges here without dampening the excitement around the stock, which again, is masterful, as we've seen him be so many times. so i also think, whenever real hard numbers come out, then there's just a moment of, oh, valuation, wow, it's really high so they're better off never reporting anything, i think. but they can't do that i wouldn't short it. he's a master at what he does. long term, i'm somewhat pessimistic on this business, in whatever form it might be, at this valuation so it's a good show to watch, though >> we are just getting started here on "fast money. here's what's coming up next
>> announcer: musk mulling a tesla stock sale $21 billion worth. and he's taking to twitter to get his answer and speaking of ev's, rivian going public our next guest says you should be plugging in you're watching "fast money," live from the nasdaq market site in times square. we're back right after this.
propose selling 10% of my tesla stock. do you support this? 58% said he should do it he faces a tax bill of $15 billion in the coming months on stock options. dan, you know, it would be nice to get inside elon musk's head and know exactly where he's doing this but why do you think he's doing it >> so mel, you make it sound like inside his head is the metaverse. it probably is somewhat close to what's going to be going on there. listen, he owns 170 million shares, 17% of the company he has telegraphed the fact that he's going to have a big -- he did this the way elon musk would do it. listen, what i think is really interesting is this company, since their ipo in 2010, i think they've raised money at every single point you can say at this point they don't really need to anymore if you look at the history of tech, the ups and downs, and this is a tech company, it's also an auto company, you look at the history of the auto industry, having enough cash on
hand is not a bad thing. if he ends up selling a bunch of his stock his company will actually be selling a bunch of stock too, or something else they've done converts in the past obviously a lot of debt issuance it would probably have to be alongside of that. that's my quick take >> guy >> it's interesting, for weeks leading up to earnings, we had said we thought that tesla would take the prior high from february, probably trade a thousand it happened on october 27. big volume day i thought on that day you sell the stock, take some profit, get back in it, an all-time high of $900 basically it proceeded to trade to $1,250 or thereabouts i think it's headed to 900 or thereabouts and reload again i'm not saying to short it, it's not a bad company, but trade around it. right now it's giving you an opportunity. >> is this a statement about the stock or is selling 10% of his holdings he's the biggest shareholder, he
holds 17% of the stock so 10% of that is not that much. is this a statement on anything in terms of where the stock is, tim? >> totally i mean, look the stock would not have been able to handle this two years ago, i think "handle," what does that mean? there would have been enormous volatility we flagged the vol and lack of vol in the stock around significant moments in the market the number of times the company has been in the news is extraordinary. the smoothing factor in capital markets, and again, it's a balance sheet, and it's obvious the operational side has been a very different and successful story too in the last two or three-quarters it's really about the fact that this is such a large balance sheet and such a large company the thought of elon selling out, selling a piece, not necessarily moving on, but we know elon is well onto other things and actually probably aspires to be fully focused on other things. and the stock does not waver in
the face of that that tells you it's a very different character and personality of how this stock trades cramer is all over this move in tesla today, in the investing club newsletter. sign up right now at the website or the qr code on your screen. live nation stock falling 5% following this weekend's deadly stampede at the astroworld festival in houston. live nation, the festival's promoter, has been named as a defendant in at leastone lawsuit. live nation saying in part, quote, we continue to support and assist local authorities in their ongoing investigation and we will address all legal matters at the appropriate time. karen, you're a shareholder. you've been doing some digging what do you think? >> well, you know, as a mother who had two kids at a festival, a live nation festival a couple of weeks ago, you hear news like that and it's horrible and terribly sad then i compartmentalize that and as a shareholder, my first
thought is i am sure they're insured but let me just look at the 10k to be sure of course they're insured but that doesn't prevent them from ever having to make any payments but i would imagine the amount of insurance they have is quite large. remember, they do 40,000 shows a year, more than that, actually so things happen all the time. and to the extent that there is some liability, i think that they will be able to cover it easily i mean, it's really sad. but we've seen sad things happen before that ultimately don't affect the valuation i think that's what's going to happen here. it happened to have come after they hit an all-time high on huge earnings as well as the pfizer news allowing this reopen trade to really go gangbusters on friday and the stock went nuts so i think it was a relatively mild pullback, as it should be, given, i think, how protected i think they are >> we'll have much more on the
aftermath of the astroworld tragedy tonight, 7:00 p.m. eastern on "the news with shepard smith. coming up, we're all over the after hours move in realreal we've got the details next plus another ev ipo. how should you play rivian "fast money" is back after this. d of the things that matter to you most. i promise to bring you advice that fits your values. i promise our relationship will be one of trust and transparency. as a fiduciary, i promise to put your interests first, always. charles schwab is proud to support the independent financial advisors who are passionately dedicated to helping people achieve their financial goals. visit findyourindependentadvisor.com dad, we got this.
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welcome back we are getting some news out of the amc call, julia boorstin has the latest julia? >> well, amc's swoe adam aaron announcing not only is the company willing to accept bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies but they're also looking into whether they can create their own cryptocurrency he also said in addition to cryptocurrency they're talking about partnering with movie studios to do some nfts. so popcorn, cryptocurrency, and nfts all on their agenda >> he just needs to say metaverse and we have the trifecta >> bingo >> exactly
julia boorstin will keep us posted let's check out other big maneuvers. roblox shares surging on earnings now at nearly 30% tripadviser lower on an earnings miss smiledirectclub dropping let's get to courtney regan with the details. >> hi, melissa a better than expected quarter for realreal their $57 million loss is larger than the $44 million loss last year and $25 million loss in 2019 shares are higher after hours, now higher by 10% as the conference call wraps up realreal reports third quarter grew 50% compared to 46% in 2019 the take rate fell 50 basis points compared to the same quarter last year.
the realreal says active buyers were 25% to 770,000 orders and average order value grew 9% to $486 while the supply chain issue aren't quite as intense for the realreal because of its retail and consignment model, the company calls out shipping costs and staffing constraints in its centers. ceo julie wainwright says she believes the impacts of covid-19 are largely behind the company and next quarter the realreal will begin to provide a timeline for positive ebitda growth or at least the path to get there, melissa. >> thank you, courtney regan karen, you're already a shareholder. you fast pitched realreal a while back what did you make of the quarter? >> i liked the quarter i always like to hear the call, i will go back and listen to that clearly they still have a lot of expenses, which we knew.
they've been operating some redundant facilities, as courtney pointed out, some of the inefficiencies from labor. but they did a good job on expenses and i thought the revenue was good the mix isn't quite right. but it's not that it's not quite right. it's explainable when you sell a high price start like a watch, they take less of that, the take rate is a bit lower. the average order volume was good that $94 gross profit for orders, getting them very close to that $100 that they have laid out as a goal. so there is a lot to like. i'll listen to it. i'm not sure if there's anything to not like here just one other thing, their direct business was also a decent sized beat. so good for them i'm still a shareholder. hanging on i'm optimistic and i look at this versus rent the runway, which is similar or even higher valuation. this is so much better ahead, gearing up for its
big debut, what to expect from rivian's big debut, straight ahead. plus ethereum hitting an all-time high as coinbase gets ready to report moowtorr after the bell we'll break down the trade when "fast money" returns as i observe investors balance risk and reward, i see one element securing portfolios, time after time. gold. your strategic advantage.
welcome back to "fast money. rivian set to ipo this week at a valuation that could be as high as $65 billion shares expected to price tomorrow our next guest says that unlike other recent electric vehicle ipos, this time you should believe the hype the man behind the not boring newsletter joins us now, it's appropriately-named not boring, by the way welcome to the show. >> thanks for having me. >> this is a deep dive into rivian the more recent sort of ev companies that have gone public, most of them have gone public via spac this is a very, very different animal in terms of the hype, in terms of how it is going public, correct? >> it is i mean, i think obviously it's going public in a traditional ipo. it's backed by the bluest blue chip investors out there and the hype seems to be real, at least on the car side
the reviews have been unanimously amazing for the r1t and the r1s as well. amazon has 100,000 vehicle orders, so there's built in demand for the next few years already there. >> can you sort of make the -- draw the line between where it is now and where it's valued and where it will be in a year or two? what do you see as the biggest sort of obstacles in that? you said it just needs to meet its goals. that's sort of a big thing to execute on, just to meet goals and deliver cars when it's supposed to deliver cars, it's new at the car making business >> rivian has started to deliver cars a lot of the anti-rivian talk a month ago was they hadn't started delivering that. over the next couple of years, rivian needs to hit its delivery targets.
by 2025 it needs to get at current multiples about 200,000 vehicles delivered in that year to be able to kind of grow in valuation based on tesla's price. obviously things could change. revenue multiples in the space could compress they could start being valued on, i don't know, on profits and earnings so a lot could happen in the market but given the current marketing conditions, they can deliver about 200,000 vehicles in 2025, they should be able to grow into valuation. >> hey, packy, happy monday, thanks for joining us, bud here's one for you this company, who are they competing with when lucent rolled out the first car they delivered last week, it was a $175,000 high end sedan. it looked like they're competing with the model s plaid, right? this company is going to roll out suvs and trucks, adventure suvs and trucks at a 70, $75,000 price point. is this a smart move, are they going after where are where
tesla doesn't live at all where they think they can compete with ice cars, i guess you call them? >> they're going into kind of a greenfield space in ev right now. they're going after the adventurous set, the outdoor set. the unique thing about rivian's truck and suv is it can speed up in seconds on the road currently on the market there's nothing kind of competing or that will come occupy with the lightning, the $40,000 price point targeted at traditional f-150 buyer who wants to go ev upmarket you'll have the cyber truck, some of tesla's vehicles, if you want an electric suv. but right now they're in this part of the market where they're in between the ford and tesla, the kind of lucent pricing, going after this group that hasn't been targeted with ev yet. >> packy, thank you for being on the show, we'll have you on
soon best name in the business. not boring do you agree with packy in terms of the segmentation of this market the ford f-150 and the lightning version of it, the ev version of the f-150, is probably for existing f-150 owners. this rivian is the wealthier set. and the cyber truck is for robots so guy, basically it's wide open for rivian, and there's no real competition? >> yeah, first of all, p-mac has forgotten more about this than i'll ever know and his podcast is a must-listen in terms of the stocks, he's probably absolutely right, ford to me, tim has spoken about this, karen, dan, it's a huge opportunity. a huge volume day, i said a couple of weeks ago you'll start to see analysts raise their price targets. i'll stand by that nomura lowered their price target to 13, which is interesting. i still think ford is the way to
play this and with the rivian, even more so coming up, coinbase earnings on deck for tomorrow, that has option traders piling in you're watching "fast money" live from the naz dark market site in times square back right after this. [crowd cheering] how's sanchez looking? with your qb's increased spin rate, any pass with a launch angle of at least 43 degrees puts sanchez in the endzone. you a data analyst or something? an investor in invesco qqq. a fund that gives you access to nasdaq-100 innovations like ai statistical analysis software. how am i gonna do? become an agent of innovation with invesco qqq. ♪♪
welcome back to "fast money. crypto rallying as coinbase gears up for earnings tomorrow after the bell mike khouw has the action on this from the fast line. mike >> right now the options market is implying a move 10% higher or lower after they report earnings not much of a history here for the country as a publicly traded company. the calls were outpacing the puts by more than three to one among the most active options were the weekly 360 calls, trading for 14.5 bucks overall we saw bearish bets. 50% seems like the options traders are betting the results will be good tc for more options action, wah the full show 5:30 p.m. friday up next, final trades. >> announcer: options action is
>> yeah, i went long realreal, it's like i'm buying it here >> dan >> jetblue will fly high >> guy >> caterpillar, sister "mad money" with jim cramer starts right now ♪ my mission is simple to make you money. i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. there's always a bull market somewhere, and i promise to help you find it. "mad money" starts now hey, i'm cramer. welcome to "mad money. welcome to kramer. i'll try to make you money my job is not just to entertain but educate. call me or tweet me. this market, what can i say? it has a keen eye for the obvious. it feels like you can just buy the news and consistently make easy