tv Power Lunch CNBC October 27, 2021 2:00pm-3:00pm EDT
rallying around a framework for a deal so that lawmakers can pass this separate infrastructure bill before a critical highway funding deadline expires on october 31st here we have nancy pelosi trying to show that there is movement and progress on the social spending package, announcing that it will go before the rules committee tomorrow for a hearing. >> and the 31st, of course, as we all know s sunday that's a tight time line ylan mui, appreciate it. that does it for "the exchange," everybody. "power lunch" picks things up right now. ♪ thank you, kelly welcome, everybody, to "power lunch," i'm tyler mathisen here's what's ahead this hour. an electric future automakers battling to nominate the ev industry. tagts are aguess eff today, gm's ceo said her company can absolutely catch up with tesla. and target blackrock a conservative group is going
after the world's largest asset management company for its ties, its business in china dragging so-called woke companies into the dirty game of politics and a working lunch with the ceo of adobe he transformed the company from a niche player to a tech power house with the help of a simple driving force. >> really looking forward to that hi, everybody here's a quick look at the market dow still down 70 points s&p is hanging on to a six-point gain nasdaq jumping visa shares are falling on a disappointing revenue outlook. mcdonald's higher on strong sales, higher prices, and new menu items a pricing power and inflation beneficiary. f 5 networks are eyer on quarterly results. juniper higher after earnings reported yesterday both outperforming the nasdaq year the date, up 7.5% today.
we start with autos and the push to try to dominate the future of the industry general motors' ceo mayor aye barra today said her company can catch tesla in u.s. sales by 2025 by having 30 ev vehicles on the market by that year. others setting ambitious goals, ford, niecean, honda and volvo tesla is still tops in ev markets. it is predicted it will fall to 20% by 2025 let's bring in michael ward, he has a buy rating on gm and ford. michelle krebs is executive analyst at cox automotive. michael, do those market share numbers for tesla seem credible,
that they would fall from the 70% neighborhood rather quickly to 25% or so >> absolutely. it is a numbers things two things favor general motors and ford on the electric vehicle side in the u.s. first thing is capacity. gm is going to be converting three current assembly plants for electric vehicle production. the second thing is the commercial segment of the market they are dominated by general motors and ford. when you look at the electrification of vehicles in the united states the total cost of ownership, new product and the social pressures and functionality for electric to the commercial side of the mark all favor general motors and ford >> so, michelle, if tesla can continue to hold on to a number one or number two position, who is going to be the next one in here, the number two player, or maybe even the number one player when we get ten or 15 years down the road >> well, i think everybody is going to be playing. so there is going to be a lot of
nibbling around the edges. i mean if we look at right where we are now, you know, tesla -- i think their market share in the third quarter was 70%. they can't -- probably can't hold onto that as michael said gm is going to take some of that, ford will take some of it. someone you didn't mepg earlier is hyundai very aggressive in electric, and volkswagen as well everybody is going to be in the game everybody is going to try to grab a piece of the pie. >> michelle, what about the sort of profitability here? i mean, tesla is already described as the most profitable mass market ev maker, most the most profitable automaker given its operating margins which i think are 15%. mercedes is close, volvo is way behind and the investments they are making in the giga press and other technologies to get these cars made quickly and at scale, can rivals match that?
>> you know, the other companies are going to have the financial investments they are making and profit issues as well. i'm not a financial analyst. i can't speak to the margins, but everybody is going to make these investments. and right now, it's not a hugely profitable business. >> exactly, michael, and that's the issue, because this is not a hugely profitable industry to begin with what would your own sense be about the massive -- look at the investments it has taken tesla to get to this point they have issued a ton of equity over the past couple of years to help fund they build outs. they are bringing austin on line, bringing germany on line where does that leave the others we have seen the models they are launching. can they produce them at scale with the same profitability. >> i don't follow tesla. but if you look at what general motors is doing and ford with their battery capacity in the north american market it will be larger than tesla's. when you get down to it, cost on an electric vehicle comes down
to the battery that's what it is. if you can put scale into battery production, yes, general motors and ford will be the low-cost producers because they are going to have so much volume coming from pickup trucks and commercial vans. that gives them an advantage in the marketplace and from a profitability standpoint. >> do you see that happening in the near term? you know, and how much do you think think their production numbers overall will include evs in the next couple of years. i guess my question, michael, is, how quickly can fe they get up to something approaching a major scale? >> it -- look, ford has basically sold out the mustang mach-e for this year it is the first electric vehicle that's not a tesla to have had success. later this year, early next year they introduce the f 150 lightning. it has orders for 150,000 units. that gives you scale gm set aside $35 billion by
2005, ford, $30 billion. if you look back to the 2002 period, gm spent billions shoring up their pension they spent another $10 billion on acquisitions and returned $15 billion in cash to shareholders. ford, it was a similar type thing, they spent a similar amount of money. this time around what the vehicle manufacturers are doing is putting that surplus cash into product, competitive product. gm and ford are also bringing on part offers in, for battery production honda invested in general motors in their battery technology. these are very different companies with cost structures that have been reduced 50% from back just ten years ago. >> i believe in, quick final question, michael, you can jump in the you care to or if this is out of michelle's sphere is the infrastructure, michelle, going to be able to keep up with all the new nols and new volume that the automakers say they are going to bring to market by
2025, by 2030? and i don't mean just the amount of charging stations but if you bring this amount of vehicles on line is power generation around the world going to be able to keep up with it or might it be strained? >> i think that the ev charging infrastructure is the key the a lot of this. when we asked consumers what is holding them back from bying an ev, it is fear about not having that charging structure. that is critically important for every automaker that's moving into the space. >> michael ward, michelle krebs, we thank you >> thanks for having me. we look forward to hearing from ford after the bill bell. a hedge fund is going after big oil. third stake is going after royal dutch shell and pushing for a breakup. >> a source says third point has taken a stake up to $1 billion and believes shell to be divided into as many as four divisions here's the thinking, if i could
quote from the letter that third point sent to investors about the holding. dan lobe writes, quote, shell has too many competing stakeholders pushing in too many different directions resulting in an incoherent conflicting set of strategies attempting to appease multiple interests, but satisfying known lobe writes some shareholders want the company to move more aggressively into renewables and others want shell to prioritize for turn of capital. lobe notes shell is one of the cheapest large companies in the world trading at four times the firm's estimated 2022 ebitda but it is important the note third point is not yet looking to nominate directors or overhaul management. there is no proxy fight outlined at this point in time. we reached out for comment. >> fascinating we could be entering an era of this kind of pressure on these companies. one of the questions investors
have, if you separate the businesses you need the profits from the legacy business to fund the investments in the newer one, the future. >> yes. >> what happens if you split them up? >> that's an interesting point addresses this in the letter where he talks about how some of these higher growth renewables, the lng business, those currently represent about 40% of ebitda, but the entirety of the company's enterprise value at this point in time meaning investors are getting the remaining 60% more legacy businesses for free at the current share price. he believes if you separate that it could yield more shareholder value on both sides. but when you separate them they have different growth profiles and different debt profiles it certainly would not come easy. >> i think they also have a stake in riskian, the ev makers. aspirations in this direction. leslie picker, appreciate it. coming up, bank of america's
brian moynihan spoke to cnbc about his goals and strategy. plus is cat pitter getting hit by china's ever grand mess. later, did rent the runway make a fashion poe paw with a key accounting metric? we will look, as "power lunch" continues. is the planning effect. this is how it feels to know you have a wealth plan that covers everything that's important to you. this is what it's like to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. making sure you have the right balance of risk and reward. and helping you plan for future generations. this is "the planning effect" from fidelity. as an independent financial advisor, and helping you plan for future generations. i stand by these promises: i promise to be a careful steward of the things that matter to you most. i promise to bring you advice that fits your values.
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after posting a larger than expected loss and quarterly revenue that missed estimates. the company seeing a decline in average revenue per user and also seeing crypto activity decline from highs in the prior quarter. it is the second worst day since going public in july it is below of the ipo price of $38 a share. >> a tough session today, kristina partsinevelos thank you. bank of america's brian moynihan leading a del indication of ceos to two major overseas conferences, the g20 and cop26. he talked with kayla tausche about his goals and also talked about the strength of the economy. >> brian moynihan co-chair as group aiming to standardize climate regulations and commitments from corporations around the world essentially trying the write the playbook for companies that aretrying t move toward net discredit emegs missions by 2030 and beyond.
but the conversations are going to be happening against a near term economic background that's uncertain. i asked moynihan this morning about his views on inflation, the supply chain issues, and growth in the fourth quarter. >> all those are real issues, but underneath that the economy is as big as it was in '19 and predicted to grow at two or three times the rate our consumers at bank of america their accounts have grown, the companies per account per household have grown every month for the last six months. they are spending 20% more money in october than they did last year doing things. when you have a consumer-led economy i think that sets it up pretty good for the fourth quarter into next year. >> moynihan expects growth to level off in 2023, but what about the $2 trillion in potential spending coming from washington i skshd moynihan about that and whether it is going the make inflation worse. >> look, the inflation is also in the pricing look at house prices yesterday, fuel prices, and supply and
demand issues there, wages, growing fast the question is where it goes after the next point, when it settles in, when things even out, will it keep going at that level? that's the question of having to fight inflation as the words are used the question is, there has been inflation. the question is whether it is going to continue or not i think everybody is aware of that i think you are going to start to see central banks around the world start to move in a direction to remove some of the monetary accommodation because it is not needed the extra $2 trillion from the federal government and -- that's a ten year figure. it takes time to build up in the economy. >> it is going to take time. that is if these packages get passed dechltsz still deep in negotiations and today the white house did not commit to an agreement before president biden leave force europe >> kelly, let me jump in, with a quick question, all things being equal if there is a little
inflation and interest rates go up a bit wouldn't that be good for a banker like mr. moynihan >> it would, tie leer. essentially what he is saying is once you remove some of the federal reserve money from the economy even if more money comes in from washington that would come out in the the wash mg i think there is a view that once the fed and central banks around the world stop easing then you will get a clearer picture of what's going on. >> kayla, thank you very much. kayla tauschy at the white house. still ahead, blackrock and politics, why the world's largest asset management company the subject of a million dollar ad campaign released by a small conservative group we will be back with more. you have to deal with higher expectations and you have to lower wait times. with ibm, you can do both. your business can unify apps and data across your clouds. so you can address supply chain issues in real time,
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senators criticizing a new justice department initiative targeting threats of violence against school board officials they say it's designed to help silence parents' concern about anti-racism lesson asks mask policy garland counters that a memo outlining the initiative only talks about violence and threats of violence. >> makes absolutely clear in the first paragraph that spirited debate about policy matters is protected under our constitution that includes debate by parents criticizing school boards. that is welcome. the justice department protects that kind of debate. in rome, there will be tight security for this weekend's g20 summit around 6,000 police officers and 500 soldiers will be deployed. and a special unit will monitor protests incase they turnt violent. president biden also arrives there tomorrow. moderna's ceo tells reuter's young people between 12 and 17
years old could start getting the company's covid vaccine within week. it also plans to ask for authorization to add children age 6 through 11 very soon. blackrock, the world's largest asset management firm is the new target of a conservative political group. at issue black rock's tieings to china. eamon javers has the story. >> consumer reference tells cnbc it will begin airing a tv ad complain blasting the firm for its ties to china today backed buy a $1 million bucket. >> black rock, the biggest american money manager where are they investing your money? china? pouring in billions, propping up chinese communist leaders, putting money into surveillance companies use by the chinese military >> but the group tells me this campaign isn't motivated necessarily by blackrock's
dealings in china. instead, they say, they are running these ads because blackrock has become too, quote, woke, unquote. >> the consumers' first initiative is aimed at sending a message to corporate america that to the extent they are going to try to go woke in order to extract from their misdeeds is not going to work and we will come from you. >> william hill told me among his group's concerns are larry fink's stances on board room diversity and investing in oil and gas. black rock pushed to select more diverse directors and said it will make investment decisions with a core goal of environmental sustainability the conservative group said it would not reveal who was paying for this latest campaign or release the names of any of their donors and cnbc was unable to independently confirm the size and cost this ad buy this group is clearly sending a message that companies engaging in what it considers
inappropriate political behavior will be treated just like candidates in a tough political battle black rock says it has no comments. >> what are they trying to accomplish here? how is the group going to know -- what defines a win for them >> i think what's going on is they are sending a shot across the bow of corporate america more broadly than black rock the idea being they are sending a message, if you get involved in what we consider politics we will welcome you to the political arena the same way politicians are welcomed to the arena with oppo research and hard hitting ads that's not something corporations are used to necessarily. we'll see how it plays out. still ahead on "power lunch" we will get you set for the final 90 minutes of the trading day. we are checking on stocks, bonds, what a story that has been, and we are checking on commodities. we will get you stock picks you can still buy each with markets near record highs. we are back in a moment.
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4582 and nasdaq in percentage terms, higher about 4/5 of 1% microsoft is the winner on the dow today, visa, the worst performing stock, off 6%, and microsoft is higher by about 5%. alphabet a new all-time high this might be soon the first, i believe, $2 trillion company maybe there is one that has beaten it. i'm not sure but it's close. >> big markers regardless, as tesla crosses the $1 trillion mark itself this wokd. let's look at bonds, the commodity works, the oil close, the return of the buyback impact on stocks. and four names to pick up with stocks hovering near all-time highs. let's kick thing off with rick santelli it is the talk of the day, the 30-year is down ten basis points. >> yes, yes, for a while it was down close to a dozen basis points let's start with five-ier. $61 billion auction today. i gave an a to demand, a is in apple.
you can see at 1:00 eastern how the yield dropped. but it had already been dropping there was not only no concession, meaning there was no push to higher yields to draw buyers in. they were just there, even with the rally. if you look at ten-year notes over two weeks, well, we haven't traded under 1.55% since the 15th of october. look at 30-year bonds. they are on pace for the lowest yield close since the 23rd of september. kelly, they haven't traded below 2% intraday in exactly one month. but the necks chart sums it all up month to date of 30-year yields minus 2-year yields. long maturity and short maturity associated with the fed. it dropped 40 basis points from 1.8 to 1.45 in two and a half weeks, since columbus day. it is a huge move and accentuates how the short maturity's yields has been
trading much more aggressive, down in price, up in yield. >> you are telling me falling bond yields arc flatter curve. are we talking about worries about a softening economy? >> you could be worried about a of the soening economy we could also be experiencing some global and domestic demand for some of these securities, especially the five-year but i think the biggest issue here is that this doesn't mean that investors don't think we are going to have inflation or investors don't think we are going to see better activity on the other side of delta, which we are about there what it tells me is, it just isn't soup yet and it is very expensive to carry trades if yields don't cooperate. >> all right, rick santelli, thank you very much. let's get to the commodities market oil is closing for the day pippa stevens is standing by with the latest? oil posting its worst day in more than a monday and pulling back from its seven-year high after a larger than expected jump in inventory. u.s. crude stocks rose by 4.3 million barrels last week while
analysts were calling for a more modest build of 1.5 million barrels. also weighing is iran and the eu agreed the restart talks which could bring more barrels back to the market wti is down to $82.65. brent crude is at $84.55, for a loss of 2.1% and take a look at nat gas on track to close before $6 for the first time in three weeks. >> popping again weather dictating a lot there. watching it very, very closely into the winter. let's move to bob pisani who is looking a the resurgence of the buybacks they powered the last quarter. can they do it again >> after all but vanishing, stock buybacks are surging in one, now set to hit a record in the third quarter, a record after dropping dramatically
during the middle of the covid crisis aye buybacks have risen every quarter since bottoming in the second quarter last year the record is from the fourth quarter of 2018. fueled by big bye backs from financials like bank of america, american express, morgan stanley all allowanced bye backs as well as tech names, like facebook, traditionally if that game the surge in bye backs coming at a delicate moment for corporate america. senators brown and widen announced legislation to tax bye backs to raise money to pay for president biden's spending programs those critics are going to have considerable ammunition when final results are in for two reasons. first, it reduces share count so brofs the earnings per share but the share count of the s&p 500 has gone up in the last few years because corporate america
has issued large amount of new shares to pay for stock options for its employees. that's the second problem. the stock market is up so much since 2018 that those options are well in the money, and executives are likely cashing in now, we have $220 billion likely in the third quarter, kelly, and the one thing you ought to remember is, the stock market has almost doubled since 2018 when the last record happened. so that 220 billion, it is not nothing, but it is going to buy a lot less stock than it would have bought in 2018. another reason why we are seeing sort of waning influence you are going to need a lot more money to make a difference in moving these shares. >> bob, thank you. our bob pisani. each with stocks near record highs our next guest says there are plenty of gaims names to buy. anderson capital management was up 40% last year he is here now with a couple of ideas to consider. peter, welcome, what tops your list >> the first thing is, a lot of people are talking about things being overvalued
i think we have to look back at the past year and say, throw out some of the metrics that we traditionally use just because it has been such an unusual year that's the first thing i have to say. the second thing is, even with that, there are still some stocks out there that have not reached their 52-week high i don't usually shop just because of that, but i know some of our viewers are looking at those kinds of valuations. let me throw out two pet names, fresh pet and true-pannion, two stocks, two companies that are catered to the animal care industry and they are in my opinion recession resistant, covid resistant, recovery resistant. everything you can possibly put in there in terms of resistant those are two names that i think are -- should be held for the long term. you also have a company called american tower i have talked about this before,
but once again, our cell phones are never ending and the demands we put on them, and we will continue to put on great demands, more technology, and that's just fantastic for the bottom line of american tower. and lastly, the trade group, the trade desk excuse me. that is a company that does digital advertising. it has been dinged because it has been kind of thrown into the same category as snap when snap reported its earnings saying that the whole issue with cookies and tracing user content, things like that. but if you look a little bit more deeply at the trade desk you will see that is not an issue at all for them. they have a totally different audience. >> let me ask a little more about fresh pet and true pannion, the pet stocks you just mentioned. i presume you like them more now because they are down over the past three months and represent a bit of a bargain at these
prices but my question really is, is the play remember done in those stocks, the covid play, where out getting cats and dogs and bringing companion animals into the home >> first, tyler, you know i try to be very disciplinedabout liking things more based just on the price. because, as you know, prices can be all over the place with stocks and many times, you can't actually find any rationale behind why this stock has moved up or down so i tried to stick with metrics that i promise myself i am going to be using regardless of where the prices move up and down. so an interesting question i get often is if the price is down, why won't you buy more my answer is, well, if there is any new information and it is positive in the price is down, then i would buy more. but if the price is down and there is no new information then i don't think i would actually add to it simply because i can't
derive any rationale behind it secondly, has it played out? i bought these stocks regardless of covid that was the first -- i was delighted in a perverted way when covid came because it did enhance the demand for pets. but let me just throw out a stat for you. very simple for everybody to understand with true pannion, only 1% of pet onners in this country have pet insurance compared to, say, in europe, where you have 15, upwards of 25% of pet owners imagine if we go from one to what i think is very reasonable, 2% those revenue also double for a company like true pannion. so i don't think we are anywhere nearzenith yet of market share for a company like true pannion. peter always good to into you. we appreciate it. still ahead a working lunch with the ceo of adobe. he led his company into the cloud era but didn't always
adobe is a $300 billion company with creativity at its core before it expanded into digital marketing and measurements services adobe was known for software like photo shop, illustrator, and premiere for photoings, graphics, and video this week the company had its annual max conference for creatives. john fort is a creative. he brings us up close and personal with the ceo who has transformed adobe from a niche player to a power house. who doesn't an adobe product, proktbly every day. >> pdf whether you are creative or not. shawn has an understated leadership style he is known for his vision he was one of the first software companies transforming to the cloud model. what you wouldn't know is that he loves literature, he is the son of an english teacher f. he weren't a ceo he might be
sitting right here with us >> i always loved -- you know, i wanted to be a journalist. i think, you know, maybe that was that part of my mother that was an inspiration to me i think the two authors that probably influenced me the most -- i grew up reading a lot n. my family, there was always time and money for books, john and so the mystery, the intrigue, that's a genre that's always excited me. and the other one i would say is pg ward house. amazing humor. most importantly, i think what i learned from that was, you know, how every word that he chooses was appropriate. >> that attention to detail takes on new importance in a digital advertising market that's reeling from changes. apple made it harder for companies to track consumers on line and target advertising to them ryan says that's put adobe's approach to digital advertising
in the spotlight. >> in that journey you have to navigate what you are doing with the security of information, what you are going privacy but the big conversation that we are having with every company is instead of focusing on third party data, how do you really take advantage of your first-party data how do you create a trust relationship with your customers? and so i think we are seeing a transition, even from the advertising where the focus was on acquisition and third party data was important and people talk about the cookieless world to what you can do with first party data. >> apple's privacy pal sees and ios are damaging advertising businesses but that's not the only story line companies relying on less on targeting and have more direct approaches, that's his approach. narayen is an engineering ceo
with a love for literature who has been known to rewrite the plot. >> i am confused how are they a middle man between businesses consumers i think of them as the product sounds like they are facilitating a relationship i didn't realize they were in the middle of. >> adobe has not just the creative products they are talking about right now at max this week. they have also got digital marketing products that help companies understand who is coming to their sites. newsletters, follow up and track that information that's why last week we had the holiday projection from adobe. they touched so many retailers they are able to project how this holiday is going to go. how they are using buy now, pay later. then their experience cloud also tracking interaction between the customer and the company even the company's employees and the customer, to try to get a better sense of how to fine-tune that he is saying that's more the future if you have got your own data you don't have to rely on the platforms that ask for
permission from apple the track people. >> it is a science company company. you had important information, they were going to move from targeting to -- what was the phrase from from targeting individuals to working with their customers. >> the first party data. >> the first party data. what does that look like what does it mean >> that means they have got permission from the customer to have this data themselves. that's a different sort of relationship so when the customer is logging in, right, they are getting that information directly from you mainly maybe because they see a piece of content if you are netflix, you are a subscriber they have information to track you that's a different kind of information than going through facebook saying i want to you target soccer moms in the detroit suburbs with this ad to get them to your site. that's more difficult.
you are able to target differently. >> if i could turn back the clock, there is one part of the story i always wondered about. they pioneered the move to become soft wears of service microsoft followed suit. value act was very involved with first adobe and now microsoft, and now it is the whole industry do you know how the original decision was made, them going instead of selling for x amount period you have to subscribe did they realize the kind of potential it was going to unlock this >> surprised me n. that fort knox interview he told me a big part of what drove that decision was the financial crisis adobe had to layoff. they hate doing it he said when management has to do loifs, the first time, you can blame the macro environment. the second time it is management's fault we are relying too much on product cycles how do we even it out?
plus jeers were saying we want to roll out new features but it is too hard to do through boxed software how do we fix sit in subscriptions and engineering the productso it is back and forward with kpartible they went through the process in part to save the work force. everybody, satya nadella, intuit, all these companies have came to adobe to figure out how to make the transition. >> jon fort. we enguyed it. it has been a busy 24 hours for dow companies reporting results. microsoft, mcdonald's, coke, all generally higher visa going the other way dragging down the index. down almost 6% trading nation will let us know if caterpillar is a buy before their numbers. cat down 1% today. stay with us
theaters and stadiums. now to enphase energy up 29%. the solar company, they make inverters. revenue doubled from last year but that was a pandemic impacted quarter. sales are still up more than 10% from the previous quarter. and the ceo was saying supply strain restraints kept them from meeting their demand stocks still down 2.5% today as investors worry those benefits may not last. over to seema mody now for "trading nation. >> shares of caterpillar are down about 14% in the last six months and earnings are on tap tomorrow one question on investors' minds, how has a slowdown in china and the evergrande crisis impacted them. it's not the only industrial with exposure. the entire sector driving about 12% of sales from asia, nearly half of industrial companies set
to report next week and a half let's bring in the "trading nation" team john, i'll start with you. caterpillar's always one of the most fascinating earning reports to dig into. it has a lens into every economy basically around the world but china really in focus this time around. >> i think this is a must-listen earnings call for everyone whether you own caterpillar or not because they sit right in the cross section of this really unique environment that we're in we're going to get color on where china is but the end markets that caterpillar sells into is doing really strong. think of like the commodity producers, the home builders, construction, all of us doing really well. at the same time will caterpillar even have any inventory to sell into because of supply chain issues, because of the chip shortage and on the other side will companies even have labor to buy to fill trucks so, it's a really unique play.
we do think longer term that the re-opening strategy is still with the wind at its back for the entire industrial sector and the cyclical trade so, a must-listen to earnings call as caterpillar tomorrow >> i hear you there. and, michael, clearly some challenges that this sector is facing but a number of catalysts including a potential infrastructure bill that we hope to see get passed at some point. >> yes, seema, you're spot on there. we believe the whole industry will continue to thrive. and that's the buzzword everyone's talking about it. in some form or fashion, the infrastructure bill's going to happen and as we all know here living domestically that the roads, the bridges, the tunnels are in dire need of updating and you also will have government spending, you have an economic recovery, you have supply chain issues, but if you think about it, that may drive manufacturing to a higher level, which obviously these companies and these industrial companies will benefit from that
so, it is a must-watch earnings season for all the industrials and i think what they say not only with the earnings but the outlook will be the most crucial part of what the future brings for all these companies. >> the average age of a tunnel across the u.s. 50 years so clearly a lot of room for improvement. michael and john, great conversation >> that's a great stat there and for more "trading nation" you can head to our website and follow us on twitter. tyler? >> all right, thank you very much, seema. up next, rent the runway makes its trading debut. but there are some questions about a key accounting metric there and whether it's dressing up with financials >> and now the latest from tradingnation.cnbc.com and a word from our sponsor.
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that ipo perspective for one you mentioned it, the accounting, we are used to adjusted ebitda from the likes of lyft and uber, airbnb and doordash but rent the runway took it a step further they asked investors to look at gross profit excluding clothing depreciation as one of our colleagues put it, this is basically a rental clothing company asking you to ignore the cost of clothing, and maybe that's just peak 2021 markets and perhaps a good sign for all the unicorns that want to go public but on a more traditional adjusted ebitda basis, the company is still losing money over the last two years. and its ipo perspective that and how far or how close it is to that level that kind of momentum still, guys, you could attribute the sudden fallen shares to first-day volatility, the ipo priced at the top of its range, and it is not far from that right now, about 50 cents off of that pricing this may actually be bullish for
the ipo price line rent the money losing money. >> i'm trying to think through, excluding clothing depreciation. >> sort of denies the nature of the business, right? they're in a business where the product is depreciating. >> right, yeah is that the idea, deirdre, that it's sort of part of the idea of rent the runway is when i go there, i'm looking for sometimes new, sometimes pre-worn items. yeah, i'm just trying to sort of think through what their clothing, you know, sort of pipeline typically looks like. >> well, you're right, on a very basic level depreciation is part of the business model. it depreciates every time it's rented out, every time someone wear it's or every time the clothing goes out of fashion jen says they're looking toward the consignment model.
so used clothing that they can sell that we know other companies like real real are looking at but it's not quite there yet we know that investors don't really love that business either when they become public. >> if they included that depreciation figure, what would that do to the numbers make them look worse, right? >> the losses are much wider >> thanks, everybody, for watching "power lunch. "closing bell" starts right now. hello, and welcome to "closing bell. i'm sara eisen here at the new york stock exchange, mixed session on wall street s&p kind of in between as we head into the final hour of trade. >> and i'm wilfred frost let's have a look at what is driving the action today the nasdaq dodging losses today as microsoft and alphabet trade higher on the back of earnings those stocks each up 4%. bond yields are pulling back adding more support to the tech sector the 10-year yield falling well below 1.6% oil prices are lower and dragging on the energy