tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg November 17, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm EST
announcer: from the heart of where innovation, money and power collide, in silicon valley and beyond, this is bloomberg technology with emily chang. ♪ emily: i'm emily chang in san francisco and this is "bloomberg technology." coming up in the next hour, the chip shortage. we take into nvidia's bet on the metaverse and the status of its bid to buy a u.k. chipmaker.
plus, while other tech giants say the metaverse is the next frontier, my exclusive conversation with the ceo of alphabet about the company's next trillion dollar opportunity. and amazon web services ceo joins us to talk about the changing of the guard. what he has to say about andy jaffe succeeding jeff bezos and his vision for managing the flight to the cloud. first let's take a look at the market stocks falling on concerns inflation will threaten a global economic rebound, forcing central banks to raise interest rates sooner than expected. our kriti gupta has been dating through the markets today. kriti: a risk obsession. you saw the s&p 500 closing in t he red. tesla higher on the day, but really dragged down when you're talking about big tech. chinese adr's falling and
dragging the new york faang index lower. lackluster earnings out of baidu in particular. you can see even cryptocurrencies did not do so well. on the risk sentiment gauge, they performed in line with what markets were telling, which brings me to volatility. how much more can we expect into the holiday season? this will be a crucial point when we are talking about the markets. you can see we had several spikes throughout the year, but starting to slow down. that white line is the nasdaq volatility, tech volatility. that is spiking up a little bit. a lot of that has to do with the ev boost. you want to watch that divergence. i want to get to some micro stories. earnings are still trickling in. it still is all about the forecast. cisco down 5% after hours, falling on a lackluster revenue,
saying they can't meet demand simply because of supply chain shortages. they don't have enough components to do that. to the upside, sonos coming out with a forecast better than expected, especially in light of the holiday season. lastly we have to talk about nvidia, a pretty good revenue forecast, saying their diversification of chips really helped them in the last quarter. emily: kriti, thanks for the roundup. i will stick with nvidia results and bring in our ed ludlow, joining us now from london. what are your main takeaways, especially where nvidia did well? ed: kriti got it spot on. the forecast for the coming quarter is well ahead of what analysts were expecting. this is the key story from nvidia. there is demand for their graphics chips, gpu's, and that is especially the case in data centers. they also boosted margins.
frankly, they are selling their more expensive stuff, which is helping on the bottom line. they said they had year on year revenue growth in crypto mining related products and chips, but sequentially calls from quarter, it did. they said they were susceptible to volatility in cryptocurrencies, lower volumes. wasn't it just last week we were talking about lower volumes in the crypto market? i thought that was an interesting tidbit. emily: volatility in the crypto market continues, apparently. talk to us about where they are not doing well. there are concerns about the slowness of the closing of this deal with arm. ed: you can see the stock and after hours up as much as 4.3%. they said in particular they are working with the ftc with some compromises on concerns the ftc has. bloomberg broke the news in
february that the ftc was looking at a probe into the nvidia arm deal. we got news that the u.k. regulator is looking into the deal, but from a national security perspective. the cfo said they acknowledged the concerns, but also some competitors, but same language as last quarter. so fighting talk, but these are ongoing concerns from wall street about what kind of involvement, what kind of action regulators will take if this deal happens to get over the line. emily: ed, thanks a much. earlier this on, alphabet surpassed the $2 trillion market cap. where is the next trillion dollars in growth going to come from? i sat down with alphabet ceo sundar pichai to talk about google's biggest moonshot, facebook's continuing controversies, and whether the search giant will have a role in
the metaverse. take a listen. sundar: as a company, we are trying to do more with less data. one of the biggest changes we made was making auto delete the new setting for users signing in. we rely on trust for people. every day when people come to google, they place their trust in us. maybe a health issue on which they are trying to understand. there is no more important responsibility we have than doing right by that trust. when we provide gmail to journalists and relies accounts may be under attack by an authoritarian government, that is what motivates us to make sure these privacy based securities, we are doing the right thing. regulation will have an important role to play. privacy is important and ai will
be important. those will be part of the answers as well. emily: facebook and microsoft are all in on the metaverse. what is google's metaverse strategy? sundar: it's always been obvious to me that computing overtime will adapt people and people adapting to computers. just like you speak to people, you see and interact, computers will become more immersive. they will be there when you need. always been excited about the future of immersive computing, ar. emily: does that count as the metaverse? is that what that is? sundar: metaverse -- i think it means different things to different people. i think about it as evolving computing in an immersive way with augmented reality. there will be many experiences, some of which will be immersive,
interactive, virtual worlds with the metaverse concept. i think this does not belong to any company. this is the evolution of internet and the web. all of it will continue to evolve. emily: google just hit a $2 trillion market cap, alphabet i should site. where will the next $2 trillion come from? sundar: i have always felt the market cap valuation is an effect of the value you provide. i feel fortunate our mission is timeless. there is more need to organize information than ever before. i still see search as our biggest moonshot as a company. people will want radically more conversational experiences. they will want what we call multimodal experiences. they may look at something and ask what the information is. being able to adapt to all that and evolve search will continue
to be the biggest opportunity. we are so excited about the youtube cloud, our hardware products, google play, so we are building a diverse set of businesses, but underlying all the investments we made in ai. applying ai in a deep way is probably where we will create the biggest opportunity. emily: one of google's fastest-growing markets and fertile ground to develop its biggest moonshot is the region home to singapore, where we hosted this year's bloomberg new economy forum. u.s. companies like google faced tough competition from china. sundar pichai addressed challenges that lie ahead. sundar: it is the most vibrant region we see.
it is our 20th year since we opened our office in tokyo, our first office outside the bay area. you have 2.5 billion people on the internet. there are many areas in which they are leapfrogging trends which are here and embracing the future. digital payments is a good example. many of our products originated from apac, google pay. a lot of are turning -- our journey is playing out in asia. i am excited about the work we are doing through cloud. the companies are rapidly transforming digitally. a chance to provide that is exciting for us. a super dynamic region. i feel like we are looming -- we are learning as google being in the region. the first 10 years, i would have said we took products here and brought it to apac. in the past few years, we are
beginning to build things there. some of our future global products will be apac first. emily: you can't talk about apac without talking about china. you are facing stiff competition from chinese tech giants there and beyond. what should u.s. policymakers know about competing with china? sundar: there is a lot of conversation about the u.s. and china. the competition is fierce. you look at areas like ai and quantum computing, where we are investing a lot. i was encouraged by the news coming out about the u.s.-china agreement on climate. while we talk about all the areas we are competing, some of the biggest areas which are common challenges for all of humanity. the pandemic was one. ai and ai safety over time will be a shared one. i think these are all areas in
which the countries can come together. that is the way by which we think about competing on the internet. there may be a different version of how the internet plays out. emily: what are the chances google search will ever come back to china, or that google cloud whatever come back to china? sundar: we don't provide most of our sign in services in china. i don't see that changing, but there are areas like ai and sustainability. there will be opportunities for us to work together. through cloud, we will support multinational companies, so maybe there are opportunities to work there as well. emily: that was alphabet ceo sundar pichai speaking on behalf of of the bloomberg new economy forum. we will have the full conversation of the interview airing november 29 on the latest edition of "studio 1.0." coming up, crypto influx as
2.7 trillion dollars. crypto centric stocks also taking a hit. for more, i want to bring in the consensus founder and cofounder of the theory him. -- of ethereum. what do you make of the latest moves in ether and bitcoin? why are we going backwards? >> i think we are going forwards, it is just our ecosystem is volatile. it is volatile in exponential and nearly generally up direction. for seven days we were down. if you look back 30 days, we are up may be over 3800. if you look back seven years, we are up half a trillion dollars. emily: fairpoint. so what is next? joseph: our ecosystem continues to grow wonderfully and
excitingly. we have seem to come upon a new paradigm shifting or foundational construct. a little over a year ago, may be 18 months ago, defi 1.0 took on tremendous importance. the nft phenomenon has been spectacular. defi 2.0 is starting to hit the scene. it is taking a different, more sustainable approach to decentralized organizations. they are starting to be enormously impactful. that has been an exciting development in our ecosystem. we've figured out how to decentralized the trust layer -- to decentralize the trust layer
and to bring democratization to the decentralized finance constructor for the planet, and really burning these constructs to bear -- bringing these constructs to bear. emily: you are being backed by a number of new investors, massive rounds. for example, valuing you at $3.2 billion. where is the growth going to come from? joseph: the way we think of our business is we operate a flywheel, where we develop a bunch of tooling that enables us to build applications on an open source, decentralized, global super app. we provide the user interface to that super app.
growth from our perspective comes from our ecosystem, creating new defi primitives and offering those two different users, bringing this nft phenomenon to bear in both artist and sports communities. we are seeing growth in so many different directions. we have a pretty strong enterprise focus as well to join our consumer focus. emily: what does the metaverse powered by blockchain look like? joseph: it looks like open, decentralized protocols. it looks like tokenization of al l the things. i looks like interoperation, so you can move your digital assets into different regions of the metaverse. it looks like decentralized governance. essentially, it looks like a
metaverse of user centric protocols, user centric social networks or social graphs. it looks like people and small organizations having real economic and political agency, as opposed to the world we live in where major technology organizations control the platforms and de-playform -- de-platform people. emily: much is being made between the competition between theory him and so -- ethereum and solana. joseph: solana is a wonderful technology. so many of those platforms that like to think of themselves as layer one platforms are great technologies.
they will be important as our ecosystem evolves. ethereum has chosen to focus on decentralization. that is where you get trust from. so maximal decentralization will bring the trust foundation. and those protocols that are not competing with ethereum, they are competing with layer two protocols on ethereum. many of those protocols will be layer two on ethereum rather because they focus on execution. those are the three pillars you need to focus on as we move into the modular blockchain ecosystem. and ethereum is the clear winner in terms of security, decentralization, and trust, and it is likely to win the guaranteed data availability layer, and many protocols at layer two are going to get incredibly inexpensive to operate.
they are already bringing thousands of transactions per second to ethereum, and cost-effectively. emily: you are saying ethereum layer two will become more competitive than solana? joseph: i am saying solana has a chance of being really valuable as a niche execution layer. whether it's it's beside or on top of ethereum, -- it sits beside or on top of ethereum, all of these protocols will interoperate alongside each other. essentially we need different kinds of these decentralized database constructs, just in the same way that the web 2 world has seql databases and different tunings of those databases. solana will serve different kinds of use cases. emily: good to hear your viewpoint on that. joe lubin, cofounder of ethereum
emily: the hot keeps getting hotter for activision's ceo after allegations he was aware of sexual harassment claims at his company for years and did not inform the board. some shareholders are asking for his resignation. this following a walkout by activision employees who want the ceo and other executives to step down. other gaming companies are also weighing in, with the playstation chief telling his employees that he and his leadership expressed their deep
concern to activation and that they do not believe their statements in response properly address the situation. meantime, cryptocurrency exchange is being scrutinized by the ftc. the platform is popular for paying its customers high interest rates for lending out tokens with annual yields that can go as high as 9.5%. the sec now reviewing whether blockfi accounts count as securities that should be registered with the regulator. and lebron james and his teammate are getting a new name for their home court, now known as the staples center. next month, crypto.com will replace the office supply chain. the arena will unveil its new name on christmas day during a lakers game. the deal is worth more than $700 million over 20 years. end of an era. coming up, what is it like to take over the division your boss
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emily: welcome back to "bloomberg technology." amazon gave visa a one-to punch. first, amazon saying it will stop accepting visa credit cards as a form of payment in the u.k. starting next year. now, bloomberg is reporting amazon is in talks to switch its own co-branded credit card from visa to mastercard. ed ludlow is standing by with more. what do we know? ed: for a long time, amazon and other retailers have been upset
about the fees they have had to basically absorb every time a customer uses a visa card, and these are the latest steps amazon is making. it played out in the equity market. you look at the drop visa experienced, the one time it was down the most since march 2020, and that negative sentiment past onto others, even though according to bloomberg sources, amazon is considering that switch to mastercard. it comes down to if i have a high rate credit card and have a purchase on amazon.com, in most jurisdictions, amazon covers that cost. amazon says the cost of accepting card payments continues to affect business. amazon trying to play a strong hand on its platform. in other jurisdictions, for example singapore, amazon issues
a surcharge. if i'm in singapore and use my credit card as opposed to a debit card, then they would charge me for the right to do so. it is interesting the rules they have left in place. they are basically trying to encourage consumers to make an active change, to move away from u.k.-issued credit cards to cash cards or debit cards, or if they switch away from a debit card completely, they are offering consumers 20 pounds or 27 u.s. dollars off their next transaction if they make that switch today. emily: thanks for breaking that down. moving on to aws, amazon's rapidly growing cloud division that boasts millions of customers around the world. i recently traveled to amazon headquarters to speak with the new head of aws, adam selipsky, who was also one of its earliest employees. we talked about the changing of the guard, how andy jaffe is different from jeff asos and how selipsky will be different from
jaffe -- how andy jaffe is different from jeff asos -- how andy jaffe is different from jeff bezos. >> it is important we all bring our own stamp to it. i don't think i would be a good andy. andy will certainly bring a good depth of experience from aws, which is one important part of the business, and having operated that part of the business for so long, i expect that will give him an opportunity, even though he has been involved with other parts of -- other parts of amazon for a number of years, will be able to bring that perspective, just as i will to aws, and i think that fresh perspective is often helpful. the mere act of change is useful for business, customers, and employees just to shake is up a little bit.
emily: how will you be different from andy? >> the world around us is changing so much that we will have to be different. it does not matter what we did yesterday. amazon added two new leadership pencils, one around striving to be earth's best employer, and the other around success and scale brings rod results. those are things in which i personally am very passionate. i'm looking forward to digging in and how companies are figuring out the things we have to figure out, where we can innovate to be earth's best employer, and also to figure out externally what we can do to be citizens -- to be great citizens of our local communities, of our national communities, and to be great citizens of the global community. i care about those things, as a lot of other people do here, and i plan to put a good amount of
energy and time and focus to help amazon enervate in all those areas. emily: how closely do you work with andy day today? does he regularly way in on aws decisions or not? >> he has a pretty rod scope of things to worry about now. he has a pretty intense day job, i believe, so he is focused across the company, as you would expect. that said, aws or mains an important part of amazon. we touch base regularly in person or via email. emily: does jeff ever way in on aws decisions? >> jeff was involved from the beginning on some of the most fundamental decisions. pricing, the name, the detail page appearance. obviously, over time, the business group -- group -- grew,
but jeff was always available when we needed him, and i anticipate that will be the case going forward. emily: is he available now? >> i will let jeff speak to his priorities, but certainly he has been available, for example, when we have been doing our annual planning cycle. it has been great to have him weigh in on where we are heading over the next year and beyond. it is great to have multiple people who can help you pick your eyes up a little bit. emily: amazon web services' ceo, adam selipsky. you can catch the latest -- you can catch more of that interview on the latest episode of "studio 1.0" later this evening. coming up, termination shock. that's the newest book from the author who actually coined the term "metaverse" back in 1992.
emily: we've been talking about the metaverse a lot, the term coined in 1992 by neal stephenson in his book "no crash -- "snow crash." since then, there have been many guesses about what a world spliced with virtual reality will look like. neal stephenson is out with a new thriller in which climate change is out of control and a
visionary billionaire has a big idea for reversing global warming, a topic which could not be more timely as well. neal stephenson joins us in a studio, and it is great to have you in person. >> it is great to be here. emily: you have a massive following, and you could have written about anything. you chose climate change, which is something the masses have had a hard time understanding and grappling. >> even scientists and people technically on the ball can have a hard time getting their heads around the whole topic. i have kind of got a niche as someone who writes around technical topics. emily: the story centers around a billionaire who decides to take matters into his own hands and solar engineer the planet. what does it mean, and is it
really possible? >> for a long time through human history, there have been volcanic eruption's that put silver into the stratosphere, the high atmosphere. what we have learned over time is when that happens, for a couple of years afterwards, the climate all over the planet will get cooler until that stuff washes out, so the proposal has been made that we could essentially build artificial volcanoes that do the same thing by artificially injecting sulfur into the stratosphere. we call that solar geo-engineering because the purpose is to bounce back solar radiation that is heating up the planet. your sleek, it is very controversial, -- obviously, it is very controversial and not everyone is on board with doing this, but for me as a storyteller, that was just more water -- more fodder for telling
an interesting story. emily: what do you make of the involvement of billionaires? >> it is and to restingplace -- it is an interesting place we have got to as a society that we now look to billionaires to take action for us. i don't know if that was true, say, 50 years ago, but it is true now that a lot of in the tuitions we might have looked to in the 1950's and 1960's to take care of our problems -- big government institutions and conventional big companies -- do not seem to be playing that role for us anymore, and we have kind of got in the habit of leaning on billionaires to do that. i don't necessarily think that is an ideal way to organize a society, but it is kind of what we have ended up with, so that
is my point of departure for writing this book. emily: coming out of cop 26, do you think it is more likely we will see governments and companies around the world coming together around climate action, or governments and companies or real people like your character take matters into their own hands? >> i think what will happen is we will see at least partial implementation of some of the very good ideas and proposals that came out of cop 26. i think that legitimate efforts will be made to reduce carbon emissions and hope fully move towards a zero-carbon-emission economy, and that is all great. the more, the better. however, the issue is that even if we completely stop putting co2 into the atmosphere today, the level of co2 in the atmosphere, which is dangerously high right now, would not start to go down unless we intervened
and began to remove carbon from the atmosphere. emily: i know you look at 10 years out. when do you think the real tipping point will be? >> 25 years ago. emily: so it is too late? is that what you are saying? >> what we have to do now is carbon capture. i think it is all about carbon capture. i think it is going to be the biggest engineering project in human history, to build the systems that are needed to pull the co2 out of the atmosphere. the co2 we have been pumping into the atmosphere ever since the beginning of the industrial revolution and get the co2 level back down to a livable level. that is going to take us probably the rest of the century. annalee: will the metaverse -- emily: will the metaverse be our escape from climate destruction? >> man, i hope not because there
is no escape. we need to focus on the physical world. we need to get outside. emily: in your breakout book "snow crash," you coined that term, now 30 years ago. what did you envision then, and how do you define the metaverse today? >> what i envisioned then was what we would now call a massively multiplayer online 3d world, meaning a large number of people can be in it and interact with each other in real time. we have seen that implemented in a lot of popular games, so we know that we can do this. the other element that is coming along is of implementing that not just on the screen of a pc or game console, but the actual 3d virtual reality headset. emily: what do you think of the tech companies' take on this term you have coined? we have seen facebook.
we have seen microsoft. what ails and what succeeds? >> i think the first thing to keep in mind is what are these companies actually doing today? -- what fails and what succeeds? >> right now, there is no metaverse. facebook is running facebook and whatsapp and instagram, but they don't actually have a product that looks like the metaverse yet and probably will not for a number of years, so we should focus on what actually exists today and when they have actually built this metaverse, then we can take a look at it. emily: do you trust facebook -- now meta--- do you trust meda to do this? >> it depends what you mean. yes in the sense that i think they will probably build something, but i don't have a
high opinion of their business model, which is all about getting people to use a free application or multiple free applications because when you are using the free application, you are essentially contributing labor to their product. your building their product for free, and what you're are selling is your eyeballs. they are selling your attention and your information to advertisers who are their actual customers, so that is a business model that as we have seen can lead us into some less than desirable consequences, and i would like to see them change that for -- before implementing the same business model in a highly immersive three-dimensional environment. emily: there is great concern on
that note that metaverse -- the metaverse will replicate the worst of society in virtual reality. what are your ears -- what are your fears? >> these devices can gather a lot of information about you. even when you are just scrolling through a website on your laptop or your phone, these things are collecting and lot more information than most people realize. if you linger and look at a particular screen for a little bit, if your mouse sort of lingers over a button, even if you don't press that can, they are collecting data about what is attracting your attention. vr and ar headsets can gather a whole lot more data. emily: you think our privacy, our personal information is even more at risk?
>> for sure. if the companies that build it keep running on the same business model that we have seen in the case of classic social media applications. emily: is your view of the true utopian or dystopian? >> i think we've got a rough few decades ahead of us, largely because of the climate and largely because of the breakdown in our kind of social institutions -- how government works, how democracy works -- that we have seen as a result of the polarization of opinions, which i think is largely a social media phenomenon. it is bad actors gaming the internet to deliberately mess things up. emily: so you are a short-term pessimist, is that what you're are saying? >> i'm a short-term pessimist. i do think that eventually, we will pull out of it. every time a new communications
medium comes into use, it does not take long before bad actors latch onto it and begin to use it to create trouble. emily: do you feel any amount of responsibility or even pride in putting the term "metaverse" out there all those years ago? >> i put it out there, as you say, 30 years ago. it was a plot device in a book, and i'm happy when people read my work and think it is cool and want to try to build something. you know, if it inspires them or motivates them to work on a project that excites them, you know, and it gives them fulfillment -- that is all great. obviously, i cannot control the direction these projects all go. emily: you also wrote a book about crypto back in the 1990's.
>> yeah, "cryptonomicon." emily: where is that going? >> that was based on a pre-blockchain idea of how cryptocurrency would work, which was that basically you had to have a room somewhere, a secure facility, where you could have your servers that was kind of immune from government interference, and that made for some fun storytelling because i got to send my nerd characters out into different parts of the world to build these facilities. of course, what we have ended up with blockchain is that you do not need that. they have found a mathematical scheme that distributes the system all over the whole world, so in that sense, what we see today is a new generation of how cryptocurrency works that is more capable than what i talked about, but i kind of follow it,
you know? it is kind of interesting, but i cannot keep up with all the different initial coin offerings and other things that are popping out of the woodwork. emily: well, it all goes to show that we should listen to your stories -- read your stories. so far, they have been very prescient. "termination shock," your newest book about climate change. neal stephenson, author of "termination shock" and so many more books. great to have you. coming up, big change for apple. yup, you can now diy that busted iphone screen at home. mark gurman coming up to explain how and, more importantly, why. that's next. this is bloomberg. ♪
emily: the next time you drop your iphone, don't worry. now you will be able to fix it yourself. apple is finally allowing customers to be able to fix their own devices with a brand-new service. bloomberg's mark gurman joins us now. i cannot tell you how many times i have dropped my iphone or my kids have dropped my iphone. how -- why is apple doing this now and how does it work? mark: i believe 23 to 25 states have been discussing right to repair laws, making it so consumer electronic companies and other companies have to allow consumers and users of their devices to be able to do some repairs. up to this point, you had to go to an authorized repair center like best buy or an apple retail store. with this program next year, they will start selling tools
and parts and manuals to allow consumers to do it themselves. emily: can i trust myself to do this? mark: i don't want to speak for you, but personally, i probably still would go to the apple store or an authorized retailer. it is not something i want to deal with. could be a lot cheaper to go to an apple store or authorized retailer to have your device fixed, but there were so many laws -- the biden administration has even been talking about this. apple has been under scrutiny to not allow consumers to repair their own devices, so now they are giving that choice. i think it will also help their bottom line, not that they need much help with that, given that parts will probably be somewhat pricey. starting small, probably for the iphone 13 and 12, batteries, screens, and then macs later on. emily: thanks for breaking it
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