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tv   Bloomberg Technology  Bloomberg  July 8, 2019 5:00pm-6:00pm EDT

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♪ chang in sanily francisco and this is bloomberg technology. growing trade tensions between japan and south korea. we will discuss which companies are getting hit hardest by japan's export restriction. apple downgraded. the fifth celebrating, the most rating, the sell most since 1997.
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how facebook is fighting fake facebook, facebook on paying tribute to game of thrones as they do that. fixates on trade tensions between china and the united states, another dispute is weighing heavily on chipmakers. slappedk, japan restrictions on exports heading to south korea. samsung, south korea's largest company, slid nearly 3%. another company dropped 1.5%. together, the two companies account for 60% of the world's memory chip capacity. upsetting supply chain for iphones tofrom laptops. why is this happening now?
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>> this is something that goes back over 100 years, you could argue, with japan's invasion and colonization of korea. korea argues, you never apologized. the japanese side says, yes we did. this appears to have bubbled up. emily: could it have anything to do with president trump and him taking a similar tact in dealing with china? ian: that is the argument, that the japanese side, for domestic political reasons, they are saying, we've had enough of this. this is something that needs to be put to bed once and for all. austin with us now, who runs our bloomberg news operations out of tokyo. talk to us about the bigger picture. tension between two other powers
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we haven't been focused on in the long-running spewed -- long-running dispute. peter: in the trade tensions between china and the u.s., people have lost sight of these two very important countries. korea, with chips and the components to make screens and these kind of things. these rising tensions between the two countries have become quite acute. they date back to world war ii, but they have festered over the years and there are disagreements on both sides about who is to blame and how they are to blame. it is kind of a critical point. tokyoe administration in has this opportunity to gain political points as they put
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these export restrictions in place on materials that are critical to the korean economy. emily: what are the materials affected and how will they affect the manufacturing at samsung and elsewhere? ian: we are talking about chips and screens, and that is basically a chemical process. chips, lcd screens. japan is very good at developing these chemicals. korea is much better at the actual manufacturing. the two go hand-in-hand. these keyoes cut off parts of the process, south korea will have to look elsewhere emily: use -- look elsewhere. emily: you say, major interruption. how serious could this get? peter: we've been trying to get
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estimates about how much supply key companies like samsung and sk hynix do have at this point. there are estimates that range a little bit. if this goes on for a long period of time, it could hit the key components that ian was just talking about, the chips and displays, that are important to all the companies. butould have a broad impact it depends how long this will last. emily: i have a chart showing samsung's profit plummeting. they released numbers last week that were not great. they are already suffering from larger geopolitical issues, economic issues. ian: this is absolutely a worst-case scenario for them. right now, they are facing demand constraints.
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the world economy, china, the u.s., all key markets for them that are looking not that great thanks to geopolitical considerations. in the short-term, it might help because the price goes up. long-term, they need to stay in production. they run 24 hours a day for a reason. they are useless within five years. how is it that two south korean companies came to dominate this part of the chip market? ian: samsung is an amazing story. they were written off in the 1980's. the japanese were transcended then and memory chips. along come the koreans. toshiba, a company that has already lost out to samsung in a
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lot of ways, maybe they can see a way forward again. emily: peter, could this be an opportunity for other companies like chinese companies, or perhaps even a huawei. ian probably hit the most likely beneficiary on this front. toshiba, because it is a japanese company, would be able to sidestep some of these restrictions. toshiba has had their own problems but that unit is still pretty strong and might be able to gain market share in this opportunity. who else is a beneficiary or its hurt by this will depend in large part how long it lasts and how this plays out over the next few months. there was a slowdown of the smartphone market even before
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this trade war kicked off. the smartphone market had been shrinking again for the second year. you have the trade war on top of that. a couple of problems hitting these companies in a few different spots. emily: what is the best bet for how this gets resolved? ian: domestic politics in korea and japan. how much pressure comes on their administrations to give ground, whether they can come to an equitable agreement. the best bet is probably that they will back down because japan needs its industry as well. it needs its chemical manufacturers to be supplying companies like samsung. andy: speaking of asia, another country, china. the venture capital boom there is showing to be a bust.
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value of sales plunged from a year ago. public inlibaba went the largest ever ipo. chinese venture deals tripled that year. coming up, rosenblatt securities downgrading apple to a sell, all with the expectation of disappointing iphone sales. news, like bloomberg listen to us on the radio come on sirius xm. this is bloomberg. ♪
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while sinces been a
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wall street was this pessimistic about apple. rosenblatt securities downgraded writing, -- a sell, one of rosenblatt's managing directors spoke earlier to bloomberg television. ask the reason we downgraded --le having a little trouble getting that audio there. call brings the total number of on apple uph seel oll ratings the most sell
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the company has had since 1997. laura, what is your take given that you have got the opposite rating? to thewe added it convictions list today. we upgraded. fitted to aly subscription company and service company, which implies margin expansion. they just hit 60 million apple music subscribers and adding about 6 million subs per month. all of that allows us to value apple's based on subscription revenue. that's what he is missing, i think. emily: mark, walk us through rosenblatt's argument.
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disappointing iphone sales and the fact that 20% come from china. mark: i think that is a big part of it. the trade war, where there is a fear that iphone sales will go down. i tend to agree with a mix of both perspectives. i think apple is trying to position itself as a service company. and i also think iphone sales i don'tdanger this year. think a lot of people k to apple's new services, except for apple music and the applecart. games. bullish on the upgrade cycle this year i think is going to be slow like it was last year because we
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won't see major changes to the iphone. i think this will be a short-term thing because in 2020, i am expecting one of the biggest iphone overhauls in history, incorporating five g, which will require a new design, as well as beefed up virtual reality systems. i think you will see stronger growth with some of these new lunches plus a bigger upgrade to the apple watch and ipad. i think 2020 should be the year that investors should be excited about. emily: what is your view on some of these businesses that don't grow as fast as apple would like to but could grow over time? laura: i'm happy to push back on mark here because everything he is talking about, a device-centric view, was two years ago. he's late.
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sorry, mark. this is a company that has 900 million users. -- time spent on mobile devices has now just crossed tv. the notion that we are talking about devices as being important i think is antiquated, my view. what we need to be talking about and thinking about, apple is 900 million users, how much money can we get from those people and how sticky is that ecosystem? not only as a way to get more money, but how do we elongate. a lot of the subscriptions are family plans now. we need to be talking about lifetime value per user and the number of unique users.
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whether it happens to be a watch iphone. an we don't care. time value for user based on revenue and time spent. that is what i think and that's what i think -- that's how i think the market is valuing this. laura makes a bunch of fair points but i disagree that the device market is antiquated. they need to run on something. people are not going to buy a uy a device or amazon -- by google or amazon device and run apple services. 1.4, 1.5le has the billion unique users, the problem is that they are not taking advantage.
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what they still don't have is some sort of subscription-based service for purchasing an iphone. i think until the services are up to snuff, there still is this device-centric approach. one more point on this. apple gets 90% of its revenues almost from hardware devices. i think going all in on services at this point is too early. emily: all of that said, johnny apple's chief designer who has been there for 30 years is about to leave. he was incredibly involved in the apple watch, in the airpods, and some of the biggest hardware hits apple has had since the iphone. laura, does that concern you?
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device-centric question. doesn't bother me at all. what i care about is revenue per user and value in the ecosystem. are they adding news, movies, tv? those increase stickiness and lifetime value. watches, which creates stickiness? increaseshat stickiness to the 900 million users who are rich and global. obviously, we will still get some device-centric questions given that the vast majority of apple's revenue still comes from devices. when will that change?
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mark: it is not going to change. the services have to run on something. services revenue is going to devices revenue -- going to augment devices revenue. i don't think people running competing devices are going to use apple services. i think that services is not a replacement for apple's devices, it augments it. if you believe that people will subscribe to all of the major apple services, that over two years is equivalent to one year of apple upgrade revenue per user. if iphone sales slow down, that will pick up some of the slack. will it ever replace it? no. again, that is my argument. emily: always good having a
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healthy debate on the show. laura martin, you are certainly in the majority when it comes to ratings. this will continue i'm sure over the next few years. coming up, broadcom is set to progress his pursuit for symantec. technology and follow tictoc on twitter. this is bloomberg. ♪
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emily: now to a story we continue to watch. bloomberg has learned that broadcom has secured financing for its acquisition of symantec. at deal could value the firm $23 billion.
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broadcom says the synergy should allow the company to save about $1.5 billion. what is the latest? companies are making a lot of progress. there is financing submitted on the broadcom side to buy symantec. they have identified the synergy numbers, $1.5 billion. they are working toward a mid-july announcement. emily: not all rod, attempts have panned out to buy other companies. clark, is ceo, greg trying to drum up a rival bit, as i understand it. is there a chance for a legitimate rival bid? liana: the activist investor who essentially ousted clark, they are involved at symantec.
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the question, what they want to sell to the ceo they just ousted? ,wo firms, respectable names have partnered with clark. it is sort of a long shot bid. they can't compete with broadcom on price. this deal requires a lot of financing. clark's bid is not the main attraction. emily: what are the chances that this happens as-is or if talks fall apart? liana: in dealmaking, talks can all fall apart last minute. but, it looks like the deal is on track to be announced the week of july 15. this is something both companies are working very hard at right now. there are still things we don't know. the final premium, what the final stock price will be. we do know it is an all-cash
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bid. it is really down to the final legs of negotiation. isly: the broadcom ceo, what his long-term plan? liana: one of my sources told me that his vision, he may have even said this before, he wants to see broadcom have 50% software revenue and 50% hardware revenue. that is a pretty tough order for a semiconductor company. it is hardware. this transition to the software revenue model is going to take a while. this will be the largest deal since ca technologies last year. emily: liana baker from our deals team, thank you. coming up, who watches the watchmen. fake newsok fights about facebook on facebook. this is bloomberg. ♪
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emily: this is bloomberg technology. i'm emily chang. facebook's history when it comes to fake news is infamous. from the disinformation campaign during the 2016 election to debunking conspiracy theories to doctored videos of house speaker nancy pelosi. but what about one those lies are about facebook on facebook? according to documents seen by bloomberg, the social media giant uses tools with names like storm chaser and the night watch. only this time, the enemy is not white walkers, but how the news is brett on facebook and on apps.
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to tell us all about it, kurt wagoner, and our editor alistair barr. what exactly is facebook doing here? kurt: a couple of different software programs, storm chaser, night's watch, which allows facebook to scrape the service. is a meme that is untrue going viral and how do we get ahead of it? they used it to find misinformation about facebook. for example, you might have seen the copy and paste memes, send this to 10 friends or we will delete your account. that type of thing that facebook would track that and they might jump in and tell people if it is true, do not worry about it. emily: was facebook giving the same attention to stories about president trump or killings in myanmar? do we know? bad but thereooks is a difference between facebook knows more about with its own
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company than things in myanmar. companies spending a long time with what is happening in other countries and politics. it certainly does show where it's priorities lie. it wants to quash rumors about itself and other things on the network. emily: facebook routinely does surveys. we talked about it before, how do people feel about sheryl sandberg and art zuckerberg -- mark zuckerberg? kurt: the second part of this story, they were doing research, the same type of stuff you might see a political campaign do with it politician and find out where does this candidate, or in this case mark zuckerberg or sheryl sandberg, what are their strengths? the idea is if you understand where mark can go out and land a
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message home and where he can go out and people might say we don't trust mark, that could be helpful as you are trying to navigate this regulation they are going through or other big problems. we saw them outline some of the research they had done. it is fascinating to see that were do you -- they v comparing them to popular celebrities. the pope was on the grid. it gives a sense of how big facebook is and how big the personalities of their leaders are. emily: isn't it fair for companies to be able to do market research on themselves and to manage their own reputation? alistair: we asked quite a few people about htat and it is -- that and it is common for people to do that. it is common for companies to go on social media to see what people are talking about them. facebook is different, is that they own it.
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from the surveying point, facebook is superpowerful now and mark zuckerberg is in much of it. gates,parison to bill super interesting. emily: fascinating anecdote. tell us about it. alistair: generally, it was basically that bill gates went through three stages of his career. one was innovator. one was monopolist. and one was a philanthropist. if you compared to where mark zuckerberg is, he has gone through the innovation stage. he's at a regulatory crossroads right now and a budding philanthropist. could he become a philanthropist in the view of the world? the question is still out. emily: the comparison pegs zuckerberg as un-innovative. and next to jeff bezos and elon musk, who were examples of still innovating. kurt: we heard through reporting of the story that when the slide
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deck was presented to mark zuckerberg, there was a slide that showed him and bill gates as former innovators whereas bezos and musk were current innovators and you could hear a pin drop. emily: you used the word incredulous. kurt: he could not quite believe he could be viewed in that way. to some extent, he is still in his early 30's, right? the fact he is a past innovator and can no longer innovate matters a lot to him, not just from a recruiting standpoint but also a reputation. that was an interesting anecdote we heard and wanted to highlight because we thought it conveyed a little bit of how he things about himself but also how the company things about him. emily: there is this social media summit in washington that the white house has called but has not invited facebook or twitter. what will actually happen at this summit? kurt: we don't know.
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it is hard to have a social media summit when you don't invite the social media platforms that everyone is completing about. it sounds like it is going to be a lot of conservative, either politicians or thought leaders, who actually have problems with these platforms like facebook. they think it stifles free speech or my over censor. because the companies are not going to be there, it makes you question what exactly will be accomplished at a hearing like this? it could end up being a facebook bash session. we don't know exactly. they have not issued a guest list. emily: the president has certainly bashed facebook and other social media companies for anti-conservative bias. not facebook or twitter invited, but bloggers invited, allies of the president, conservative groups. what are we expecting? alistair: maybe myspace or tum blr. [laughter] emily: some defunct social
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networks. alistair: i think it will probably be another attack on social networks. i imagine it would be quite political. two main ways to criticize social networks in my view, which is you are not paying attention to all the content on there. you should be paying more attention and being more responsible. the other side is cracking down on conservative voices and you are bias, which are kind of two separate things. i think it will be the latter. emily: what is facebook's response to storm chaser and night watch revelation? kurt: their biggest concern was they were actually going full-circle to where we started the conversation. they did not want to be viewed as being a tool to fix fake news and to only do it on themselves. when we reached out to them and outline what we learned, their on the record statement was pretty much, hey, you cannot really compare this storm chaser tool to what we do with fake news now. i think the reality less that it
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could have been used. as far as i can tell, if they wanted to track a certain meme or fake news story, they could have. the difference is they were not looking for it and neither was anybody else. they have this thing and they were using it for a very narrow purpose which was just to deal with facebook specifically. the reality is they were not prepared to use it for anything else. emily: get it now be applied to other issues? kurt: i think it could. the technology still exists. we are told it is no longer used in the way it was the kind of fight fake facebook memes as it was in the beginning but it is still there. the reality is they were looking for it more closely now and other systems in place they didn't have an 2016. for example, the fact checker. they are working with outside organizations to not just track this stuff, but debunk it a little bit with someone who is not a facebook employee. emily: alistair barr and kurt wagoner, thank you. ok, coming up, high metrics is
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bringing a.i. to recruiting. how the startup is using tech to combat discriminatory bias in the hiring process, next. this is bloomberg. ♪
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receivese job posting over 250 applications, but recruiting candidates based solely on resume review could lead to bias. pymetrics want to level the playing field by using neuroscience-based games to help companies like linkedin and unilever compare applicants to top-performing employees. pymetrics builds a unique trait profile based on the game performance of current employees and matches it to the best talent. it has raised $57 million in
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funding and has over 80 clients. joining us from new york for our work shifted series, pymetrics io and co-founder frida polli. how does this work? frida: we take people's cognitive and emotional traits and usthat to match them to their ideal role rather than looking at the resume which can often lead to a bias and often times not predictive outcome for the candidate. emily: how do you determine their cognitive and emotional traits? frida: i spent 10 years at harvard and m.i.t. as a neuroscientist. neuroscientists have developed a number of computer activities that can tell you things about your memory, attention, sequencing, risk profile, reward sensitivity -- all facets of people. instead of using somebody's resume to predict their success in a role, we look at more fundamental traits. instead of judging a book by its cover, we look deeply inside of
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them. emily: so, would this be good enough in your view to replace an in person interview? frida: we don't replace any human to human contact. we replace the process of a person scanning a resume, which we know from all the studies that are done on it to be highly biased. if you want to make a racist, sexist, or a just decision, used a resume because that is what the studies show. we don't replace any humans or human to human interaction. we have candidates for recruiters to look more closely at rather than going through the manual, repetitive review of a resume which quite frankly is not the most exciting part of their job and not where they outperform. emily: now, i understand the goal is to take the bias out of the process, but algorithms are always biased based on the biases of their creators, right? how can you be sure you are not
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introducing new kinds of bias? let's say for example, in the 1960's and 1970's, they were looking for tech talent to join the industry, they did a lot of personality tests, which to be fair, eliminated a lot of people in this sort of white, male engineer stereotype. frida: great question. the way that we do it -- i would say it is not always the case that a.i. has to be biased. a.i. can be biased. it can also be unbiased. it depends on the crater of the technology and what they do to prevent those biases. what we have proposed an open source is a way to audit any -- to see if it is biased for caucasians or males. if we see that, we tweak the algorithms so that they are producing a fair outcome for men and women and people of different out -- ethnic backgrounds and socioeconomic backgrounds.
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it is how you design it. you can actually remove bias from an algorithm. it's impossible to remove bias from a human. i think we have more hope in removing bias from technology if we use open sourced quantitive methods, which we do. emily: interesting. pymetrics e.u. and co-founder frida polli, thank you for sharing that with us. still ahead, amazon's prime shopping day is primed for a workers strike. why some employees in minnesota are saying enough is enough. that is next. this is bloomberg. ♪
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emily: microsoft is looking to highlight the power of its cloud computing when it comes to health care. the software giant has announced it signed a five-year deal with a nonprofit multistate profit -- hospital chain to be a customer for its azure cloud and ai
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tools. providence will use those tools to track cancer therapies. they join other cloud customers. to discuss, i want to bring in microsoft health care vice president peter lee who joins us live from microsoft headquarters . what kinds of things is providence going to do here and how will it impact patients? peter: it is great to talk to you again. we will be bringing microsoft toud and a.i. tools providence st. joseph health to all employees in all 51 of their hospitals to improve gillick -- clinical outcomes and the day-to-day workings. some the care business. it is intended to bring much more data and data intelligence to the people that matter. emily: let's talk about some specific examples. there is an example in our bloomberg news story about this partnership about a knee surgery in particular and how you and
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they can use data to get a better handle on what works and doesn't work. explain that. peter: that is really a great example to bring up because it was one of the examples that really impressed me the first time we went deep with providence. if you look across all of the arthroscopic knee surgeries, you find tremendous variations, sometimes as much as a -10x variation and a 200x variation in cost. if you plot out all the data that went into each of the surgeries and go deep using machine learning and a.i., you start to discover clinical pathways that allow you to optimize and get clinicians decision support to produce the best possible patient satisfaction at the most reasonable cost. emily: now, the health care industry has been notoriously slow to adopt new technology. it could be impossible to even send your doctor in email, for
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example. what has been holding the health care industry back from embracing technology, like say microsoft technology, and how long is that going to take to fundamentally change? peter: i know it seems low and it is frustrating. in fact, it is hard to remember that just 15 years ago, less than 15% of her health records were in digital forms. today, almost 100% of digital health records in the u.s. are in digital form. that gives us the foundation for a lot of possibilities and expecting insight from that data. it seems like it is slow, but we are now as a place where we have this wonderful digital foundation. this is exactly the foundation that providence and microsoft want to build on today. emily: let's talk about the possibilities. how will the cloud in the future make my experience as a patient, for example, vastly different? peter: one of the projects we are doing with providence in this partnership agreement is we
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are going to look across all of the electronic health records for all of providence's patients that are undergoing treatment for cancer. and hidden in all of that kind arenstructured data patterns that might lead to insights, earlier diagnosis, and better treatment possibilities for those cancer patients. right now, that data is siloed across different data systems that has been collected over the years. by bringing it all to the cloud and then using not only microsoft azure cloud, but also microsoft 365 so that caregivers can collaborate with each other on discoveries and dynamics so the operations of providence can be managed all in the cloud gives the possibility to grow at scale across the entirety of providence's health system. emily: interesting stuff. microsoft's peter lee, thank you
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so much for sharing this news with us. amazon's annual prime date starts july 15, this july 15. workers at one of its warehouses in minnesota are going to use that date to highlight what they view as unfair working conditions. they are planning a six hour strike on prime day and some engineers are going to join on the strike as well. to show solidarity. this is not expected to disrupt amazon the just delete, but will it be enough to get amazon to meet their demands? to discuss, spencer soper who has been covering the story for us in seattle. what are the demands? spencer: they are fairly general. they are wanting amazon to convert more temporary employees to permanent status. that is always a source of tension for amazon because of the cyclical nature of its business. it needs to ramp up in the fourth quarter around the holiday and that allete a lot of people got. they want to see more people
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kept on as permanent employees. they also want some production rates relaxed. amazon is always turning the knobs and trying to make these places run as efficiently as possible. the employees are looking for that to be relaxed a little bit. emily: this is the first time that amazon workers are striking in the middle of a huge event. or overy a prime day christmas or black friday. is this really not going to have any impact on the logistics? spencer: yeah, well, amazon has faced this in europe in the past. so, they faced strikes on big shopping days like black friday in europe and they have been able to weather them fine. this one, probably 100 workers. amazon has more than 100 warehouses across the country and hundreds of thousands of people. participation will be quite small fraction of the overall workforce so it would not be a
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much of a dent. it is a bigger threat optically because amazon is very sensitive about his public image and how it treats workers. last year, it raised wages to a minimum of $15 an hour after getting criticism for getting tax breaks and having some of its employees on food stamps. they are very sensitive to its image. this will broadcast that the labor unrest remains during one of amazon's big shopping days. emily: senator bernie sanders trying to pass the stop bezos act to put an extra tax on companies like amazon. amazon in a statement said to us "the fact is amazon offers already what this outside organization is asking for. we provide great employment opportunities. we encourage anyone to compare our pay benefits to other retailers and major employers across the country. we invite anyone to see for themselves by taking a tour of
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the facility." an employee who is one of those faculty folks who is organizing the strike also told us amazon will be telling the story about itself which they can strip a candle to your house in one day. we want to talk about the opportunity about what it takes to make that work cap and put pressure on amazon to protect us and provide safe and reliable jobs. the question is will they inflict that pressure and will that pressure be enough to make a change? spencer: that is a great question. two things working in the workers' favor. one is it is a tight labor market so workers can feel emboldened about making demands and companies just out of necessity have to be more receptive to them because it is difficult to replace workers that leave. the other interesting thing is, you mentioned earlier, how some of amazon's corporate employees in seattle will actually be
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traveling to minnesota to help. these are employees that have been active in the climate front. they want amazon to do more to reduce fossil fuel consumption and address climate change. we are seeing these coalitions building between amazon employees. some of the climate change workers are saying, you know what, we hear what you workers in the warehouse are asking about. we are going to fly out and support you. you see the employees kind of banding together to make their voices a little louder. emily: all right, we will be following it as i know you will be. spencer soper, thank you so much for your reporting on this. meantime, the u.s. women's team was not the only winner at soccer's world cup. according to fox sports, the american audience was 20% higher than last year's men's final. in the netherlands, who lost to the u.s., nearly 90% of those watching tv tuned in. go team. that does it for this edition of bloomberg technology. we are livestreaming on twitter. check us out.
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you can follow our global breaking news network, tictoc, on twitter as well. this is bloomberg. ♪
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paul: welcome to daybreak australia. i'm paul allen at the asia-pacific city summit. shery: i'm shery ahn in new york. sophie: i'm sophie kamaruddin in hong kong. we are counting down asia's major market open. ♪ paul: here are the top stories we are covering in the next hour. wall street slides as investors wait the fed's promise. apple downgraded. tech stocks will be in focus later as the japan-korea

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