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tv   100 Women in Conversation  BBC News  November 28, 2021 2:30pm-3:01pm GMT

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that it was not accessible and i said maybe you could make games for blind kids? she said no, mum, i am going to make them so everybody can play them! i thought that was very sweet. i was thinking i could have like a game, add have like a game, add voice over would work on it. it's home to some of the world's best surfers and dishes up some of the best waves on the planet... but brazil isn'tjust about epic battles in the world surf league — this next event got tails wagging. tanya den—dree—noss has more. cheering. these beaches are famed the world over. so why not catch a wave with your best friend? translation: his happiness on the board started gaining | other people's attention. my dog has such a good time on the board. brazil is synonymous with surfing and it was the pups that reign
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supreme in the surf dog festival. hanging ten alongside their owners. translation: once more we have proven that it is possible to have i humans and pets interacting on the beach and dog surfing is a good sport. after winning silver and bronze at the world championships, this very good girl was crowned top dog. translation: i'm really excited, | i'm very grateful for being here | and having won this title. they might not be able to throw up a shaka sign but if tail wags are anything to go by, this sport mayjust continue growing in popularity. tanya dendrinos, bbc news. all now it's time for a look at the weather with nick miller. some very strong some very strong winds around our coastline although the windsor easing. it is cold out there and we
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are talking about the snow today. this is a picture of a not too long ago in derbyshire. there is an area of snow moving out of scotland to northern england especially north—west england and impacting the midlands at the moment. it is giving a covering in places and briefly some tricky travelling conditions. there are some wintry showers on the north sea coast. it is not as windy as it has been. last week towards east anglia and south—east england. feeling cold. wind chill even though the wind is not as strong. what is left of it will run across central and southern england this evening before clearing away. a lot of dry, clear weather overnight. cold, frosty, icy in places as well. we start the day tomorrow with plenty of fine weather around but things are going to change during the day. ploughed into northern ireland and scotland. outbreaks of rain coming out of that. clad increasing across northern england, wales and the south—west. sunny spells in east anglia and the south. cold in the
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east, milder in the west. cold in the east, milder in the west. hello this is bbc news. the headlines: the founder of the williams motor racing team has died at the age of 79. morocco has an answer to suspending all flights into the country for the next two weeks because of the discovery of the omer variant. the uk government promises it will be christmas as normal despite the discovery of the omicron variant of coronavirus. from tuesday, people in england will once again have to wear masks in shops and on public transport — the health secretary says ministers acted as quickly as they could. the netherlands confirms that 13 people with covid on a flight that arrived at amsterdam's schipol airport from south africa on friday have the new variant of covid—i9. israel says it will ban the entry of all foreigners — it's the first country to shut its borders completely in response to the new variant. nearly 100 thousand homes across the uk remain without power this afternoon after gale force
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winds created by storm arwen. properties in parts of scotland, wales and northern england are affected. power companies say they hope to restore supplies to the majority of homes later today. now on bbc news, here's catherine byaruhanga with a special bbc 100 women interview. welcome to this bbc ioo welcome to this bbc 100 women special interview with the nigerian writer and feminist chimamanda ngozi adiche. you may know her from writer and feminist chimamanda ngozi adiche. you may know herfrom her 2012 ted talk we should all be feminists or from 2012 ted talk we should all be feminists orfrom her words being sampled in the beyonce song flawless but her books have been translated in over 30 languages. her newest essay deals with a very personal grief of losing her father. essay deals with a very personal grief of losing herfather. her mother also unexpectedly died in the
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past year. she tells us why she has chosen to be so open about this time in her life. i also ask her about the controversial comments she has made about trans women in the past and we discuss how she copes with the very public consequences of being one of nigeria's most famous voices. chimamanda ngozi adiche, thank you so much for taking the time to speak to us here on the bbc�*s 1oo so much for taking the time to speak to us here on the bbc�*s 100 women season. to us here on the bbc's 100 women season. ., ~' to us here on the bbc's100 women season. . ~ , ., to us here on the bbc's100 women season-_ we _ to us here on the bbc's100 women season._ we are - to us here on the bbc's100 women season._ we are just - to us here on the bbc's100 women l season._ we are just going season. thank you. we are 'ust going to start off talking h season. thank you. we are 'ust going to start off talking about _ season. thank you. we are just going to start off talking about how - season. thank you. we are just going to start off talking about how a - season. thank you. we are just going to start off talking about how a lot. to start off talking about how a lot of our audience might have come across you and especially with the we should all be feminist ted talk from ten years ago, almost. how do
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you reflect on those days now and how would you say your thoughts have perhaps changed since 2012? it is perhaps changed since 2012? it is interesting- _ perhaps changed since 2012? it is interesting- i— perhaps changed since 2012? it 3 interesting. i have not realised it has been that long. my view of feminism are still really the same which is that i think feminism is fundamentally a justice movement. and i realise, of course, that the word feminist are so many negative connotations and by giving the talk it was a way of trying to take it back to its basic fundamental meaning which is that we should all really want equality. we should all really want equality. we should all really want equality. we should all really want is i've never quite understood where there is so much hostility to conversations around feminism. this idea that womenjust want to be full and equal human beings. they want to be considered because they are, obviously. women are full and equal human beings with the world refused to acknowledge that's when i gave that talk i think also wanted to talk about feminism
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in a way that is accessible to people. in a way that is not about being the all way that isn't even necessarily political.— necessarily political. were the important _ necessarily political. were the important things _ necessarily political. were the important things you - necessarily political. were the important things you have - necessarily political. were the i important things you have talked about is how anger can be a major force when it comes to responding to social constructs around gender. how do you think women today can use angeras do you think women today can use anger as a force, positive force. and so many parts of the world women are socialised to deny their anger. to be afraid of being seen as angry. and in the west in particular women in general are really not permitted angen in general are really not permitted anger. to be considered an angry woman has so many negative connotations and for black women it is disaster there is already a stereotype of the angry black woman. as women are aware of that there is
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tendency to hide their anger. anger is justified. tendency to hide their anger. anger isjustified. i think tendency to hide their anger. anger is justified. i think most people in the world today who care about justice should be angry because there is so much that isn't right and i think anger can be a propelling force. sometimes because we are angry we are prepared to act. i don't know if i would have spoken about how think we should all be feminist if i had not been angry. the goal of feminism is to make itself redundant. we want to get to a world where we no longer need which means that it has to be a democratic idea. and when i talk to people i do say to them, look around the world. look at your own experience. i grew up really with wonderful parents and a family that was very progressive. my parents were friends, and were equals. but despite that it was still very obvious to me as a child that the world just does not give women the same dignity is that it gives men and this was seen as just normal.
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and you were made to feel strange for questioning it. by then later had stories of my great grandmother, my father passed my grandmother, who was considered a troublemaker in my hometown and the reason she was considered a troublemakers because her husband had died young and his brothers wanted to take away her property and she resisted. she said, i have a son, i need to raise my son. you cannot take away my things and because she resisted she was considered a troublemaker. and sol think troublemaker a wonderful label for a woman. i still notice it to travel. what i was eight people think about your lives. have you beenin think about your lives. have you been in situations where women are treated differently for the same behaviour? and also think it is important to see that we're not saying minimum in the same. they are not. that is no point was a bit men and women wear the same we would not have sexism. the reason we have is because there are differences between men and women. people have then given negative value to all of
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then given negative value to all of the attributes that women have so it is not that men and women are the same. it is that men and women are different obviously but that they are equally human. you different obviously but that they are equally human.— different obviously but that they are equally human. you have chosen to use your— are equally human. you have chosen to use your voice _ are equally human. you have chosen to use your voice and _ are equally human. you have chosen to use your voice and your _ are equally human. you have chosen to use your voice and your platform l to use your voice and your platform as a world—renowned writer to talk about these issues. how does it make you feel that you have become a cultural icon around the world and what are the responsibilities that come with that? i what are the responsibilities that come with that?— come with that? i don't actually alwa s come with that? i don't actually always remember _ come with that? i don't actually always remember that. - come with that? i don't actually always remember that. i - come with that? i don't actually always remember that. i don't i come with that? i don't actually - always remember that. i don't waiter and think i am a cultural icon. i don't even know what that is. because of literature then had this platform where people want me to speak somewhere and so really i made the choice to talk about the things i care about. those are not really are at the centre of my heart. those things that writing and reading and dreaming. if i'm able to make a difference then i want to do it. do
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i feel a sense of responsibility? i think so. i think so. but it is a responsibility that i don't want somebody else to define for me. and i remember years ago telling someone in my hometown who said you are a role model, you have to be very careful. and i said, on the one hand, i am careful. and i said, on the one hand, lam honoured careful. and i said, on the one hand, i am honoured that you would think of me as a role model but then on the other hand there is a part of me that persist that because often people use that to then want to tell you how to be. and this person was saying it in the context of my writing so saying you are a role model so you can write about sex. the idea was africans don't have sex, i guess. and i don't know. responsibility something a define for myself but i want to say what i think and ijust never believed in performing for, been to the myself is important. authenticity is important to me. there are consequences to refusing to perform as a person living as a public
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person in the world and i'm willing to take on the responsibilities. part of grief�*s tyranny is that it robs you of remembering things that matter. his pride in the method. more than anyone else's. speaking about our more than anyone else's. speaking about your most _ more than anyone else's. speaking about your most recent _ more than anyone else's. speaking about your most recent piece - more than anyone else's. speaking about your most recent piece of. about your most recent piece of work, your latest book, notes on grief, which looks at the grief the passing of your father, james. grief, which looks at the grief the passing of yourfather, james. and also the passing of your mother, grace, as well. you talk about still processing the grief, not knowing what you are learning, what your understanding. sol what you are learning, what your understanding. so ijust wanted to ask you how are you doing right now? how is this process going for you? i how is this process going for you? i don't know. there are good days and bad days. and the days ofjust utter disbelief. ijust really cannot
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believe what happened to us, you know. he felt a bit unwell. had been sleeping poorly. but we were not to worry. on the 8th ofjune summer meant to see him and said he looked tired. on the 9th ofjune i kept our chat brief so that he could rest. he when i did my careful imitation of a relative. he said good night. his last words to me. on the 10th of june he was gone. my brother called to tell me and i came undone. earlier today ijust felt to tell me and i came undone. earlier today i just felt very light and i don't mean that in a good way. ifelt and i don't mean that in a good way. i felt that
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and i don't mean that in a good way. ifelt that i and i don't mean that in a good way. i felt that i could very easily be blown away. i was very close to my parents. i wouldn't be who i am without them. they were remarkable people. even saying the past tense feel surreal even now so i don't know. i do know that i am a changed person. i'm change. ijust cannot be the person i was beforejune of 2020 because something catastrophic happened in my life and ijust look at things really differently now. there is a kind of impatience i no longer have rubbish. i am so much more aware of thinking what i want my life to be. what i really want to be? and i don't know how much longer i have because what happens when you agree these that suddenly you are so aware of mortality. death is so close. it has changed me and it is also made me very angry. so much rage. in also made me very angry. so much race. , ., , ., also made me very angry. so much race. . ~ rage. in your writing you talked about how _ rage. in your writing you talked about how you _ rage. in your writing you talked about how you shied _ rage. in your writing you talked about how you shied away - rage. in your writing you talked j about how you shied away from rage. in your writing you talked - about how you shied away from public grieving but since then in recent
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weeks you have been generous enough to share this grief without so publicly. can you tell us why you have chosen to do that now? chosen to have such a public conversation about your grief?— to have such a public conversation about your grief? because i actually find it ever so _ about your grief? because i actually find it ever so slightly _ about your grief? because i actually find it ever so slightly comforting. l find it ever so slightly comforting. also because my siblings and i are very close but we are alljust really in our suffering and we lean on each other but there are times when i want to reach out to someone who is not family because there is a which it is almost safer. it is more consequence free. you're not making it more difficult for someone that you love and also because i kind of hope to help someone else because grieving is such strange thing. death itself is so final and so fundamentally unknowable that it feels like trying to make your way through this very dark, deep hole
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and there is that desire to not feel alone. and sol and there is that desire to not feel alone. and so i found it a bit comforting and i have also found it comforting and i have also found it comforting to hear about the stories of other people who are grieving. and it is just that feeling of not wanting to be utterly alone and just thinking, right, this thing is horrible but apparently it is a thing that is universal. people all through the word also going to this horrible thing and it makes you feel slightly comforted. asine horrible thing and it makes you feel slightly comforted.— horrible thing and it makes you feel slightly comforted. one of the other issues you've _ slightly comforted. one of the other issues you've been _ slightly comforted. one of the other issues you've been very _ slightly comforted. one of the other issues you've been very passionate l issues you've been very passionate about recently is speaking about cancel culture and toxicity on social media. in one of your latest essays which she released injune you talked about, you know, the wider issue of cancel culture. i did consider the public space of social media to be obscene as you wrote in the essay? what i consider obscene is not the public space of social media as it is how it has been used
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by certain people. there is something about using a screen that makes you forget the humanity. but most of all that there is just good faith is dead. so those conversations are not in good faith. there is something very performative about it. you talk about things people say things they don't really believe. there isjust so much quickness to think the worst of someone put the worst possible spin on what someone has said. the assumption for example is if you use the wrong language you morally bad. that he made a mistake and these moraljudgments then stick. that person loses theirjob and be fired for everything and i cannot help but think where is this going to end? there are young people who are terrified of tweeting things and
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reread their tweets before they send them out because they're worried somebody will come after them. and i don't participate, obviously. but being a public figure in general i just don't do it myself but you are a target and accept that but when it becomes just really vile then it is it is not ok and i think a lot of what is said is not ok. as it had a personal issue on you when you see these comments? part personal issue on you when you see these comments?— personal issue on you when you see these comments? part of the reason i'm still these comments? part of the reason i'm still saying _ these comments? part of the reason i'm still saying it _ these comments? part of the reason i'm still saying it is _ these comments? part of the reason i'm still saying it is that _ these comments? part of the reason i'm still saying it is that i _ these comments? part of the reason i'm still saying it is that i don't - i'm still saying it is that i don't look at comments. however, of course, there is something going on i will hear there is something going on but i think the one thing that really ticked me over and made me write that essay was having my nephew called me and say that there were people on social media say my parents had died and it was good for me and it was punishment because i had refused to say trans women are
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women. ijust found it so inhumane. just so inhumane. i think if you can trivialise something so serious as the death of a person's parents because a person refuses to participate in language orthodoxy not because a person must anybody of their rights then something is really wrong. what made you think your perceptions about the tone and the behaviour that comes from cancel culture. and not necessarily people choosing to make economic decisions to stop supporting someone because they disagree with their politics? not supporting person because you disagree with them is absolutely the right of everyone. i've often said that people don't like my position should not buy my books. i'm not even writing for them. but there is a difference between that and, for example, person says something and suddenly you want them fired from
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theirjobs. there is a sense in which we need to have a sense of proportion punishment to crime. you cannot because someone has said, and often it is people who are naturally supposed to be on the same side. that is the thing that i find really troubling. and so there is no room for learning, growing, somebody said one thing and suddenly everything that person stands for becomes irrelevant. i don't really like the expression cancel culture because it is an exercise. people take it to mean all kinds of things. i for example believe that if i read a book that someone has written that i find for example racist, i'm not going to buy that person's book the next time because linda think not what i want to read. but i don't know that i'm then going to wage a campaign saying they should never speak anywhere, they should never. i
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should rather use my energy on things that, i don't know, make more sense to me. this things that, i don't know, make more sense to me— sense to me. this whole conversation about ou sense to me. this whole conversation about you being _ sense to me. this whole conversation about you being cancelled? _ sense to me. this whole conversation about you being cancelled? i'm - sense to me. this whole conversation about you being cancelled? i'm sure i about you being cancelled? i'm sure there are a lot of opportunities where people talked about you being cancelled in the past but a lot of this came from your comments in 2017 from an interview where you talked about your feelings that trans women are trans women. it is several years on. does that still reflect your views today. on. does that still reflect your views today-— views today. yes. i'd like 'ust ex - lain views today. yes. i'd like 'ust explain that i views today. yes. i'd like 'ust explain that a i views today. yes. i'd like 'ust explain that a bit i views today. yes. i'd like 'ust explain that a bit more? b views today. yes. i'd likejust explain that a bit more? i - views today. yes. i'd like just l explain that a bit more? i don't know that there is. even being asked this question. why am i being asked this question. why am i being asked this question? what is it about trans women are trans women are offensive. by, trans women are trans women are offensive. �* , , trans women are trans women are offensive. . , , ., , trans women are trans women are offensive. . , , . , ., offensive. a sense that they are bein: offensive. a sense that they are being excluded _ offensive. a sense that they are being excluded from _ offensive. a sense that they are l being excluded from womanhood offensive. a sense that they are - being excluded from womanhood and being excluded from womanhood and being others. but being excluded from womanhood and being others— being excluded from womanhood and being others. but in what way? there is,
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being others. but in what way? there is. because — being others. but in what way? there is. because on _ being others. but in what way? there is, because on the _ being others. but in what way? there is, because on the one _ being others. but in what way? there is, because on the one hand - being others. but in what way? there is, because on the one hand we - being others. but in what way? there is, because on the one hand we say l is, because on the one hand we say we want to be inclusive and the premise of inclusivity is that there are differences between us then why are differences between us then why are we so unwilling to acknowledge those differences. it seems to me like saying i am colour blind. everyone is great. you know, there is something about this impulse on the left to wish away difference because difference is the basis of oppression. but i think actually it quite patronising to minority groups. i am of course deeply and i have always been, in fact, deeply supportive of difference in general. and so when it comes to transgender people i am particularly supportive of gender affirming care. serve trans people want to transition i think that might if anyone tries to
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stop i think that is immoral. no one should be removed from any civil thing because they are trans people but to then say that trans women and women had the same experiences just doesn't make sense because i think in some ways as well it is denying the trans—identity of trans people and that is also wrong. fundamentally this is about language orthodoxy and that is really what my problem is. we live in a word we were supposed to say things in a particular way if you refuse to say that it particular way if you refuse to say thatitis particular way if you refuse to say that it is just massive. it is a massive backlash and ijust refuse to. i am done. massive backlash and ijust refuse to. lam done. i'm massive backlash and ijust refuse to. i am done. i'm going to moment i want to use. if i think that the language orthodoxy is problematic and won't participate in it but i don't think that means that people then accept that refusing to participate in this language orthodoxy mean somehow i have been told, i want people dead. thing is
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absurd. you cannot look at my history and my political positions and somehow credibly say that i want to trans people dead. it is nonsense. i'm completely supportive of trans rights but i'm just not going to participate in certain language that i think really mask the reality of different people and we need to understand that it is possible for things to coexist. sometimes one feels that fashionable feminism of the which is better to parrot these orthodoxies but somehow we are forgetting that there is a raging epidemic of violence against women. it is epidemic. and it seems it has almost become unfashionable to talk about these things were dubbed as an american invention. there are orthodoxies that we are supposed to parrot and that makes us morally virtuous but we're thinking about real things. and so want to go back to this because trans women
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have different needs so let's talk about healthcare. the needs of trans women in terms of healthcare are very different from the needs of women. how do we then deal with that and the challenges that they have because there are so many countries that were denied trans people gender affirming care. how do we deal with that if were going to pretend that there is no differences? it seems to me really a kind of, it is disingenuous.— me really a kind of, it is disingenuous. me really a kind of, it is disincenuous. ., . , . . disingenuous. the world has changed dramatically over _ disingenuous. the world has changed dramatically over the _ disingenuous. the world has changed dramatically over the past _ disingenuous. the world has changed dramatically over the past two - dramatically over the past two years. is there any particular advice you have at the moment in terms of how we raise women or how we raise feminists from mothers and fathers who are watching in particular from your experience of now raising a daughter? it is particular from your experience of now raising a daughter?— now raising a daughter? it is not 'ust how now raising a daughter? it is not just how we _ now raising a daughter? it is not just how we raise _ now raising a daughter? it is not just how we raise goes, - now raising a daughter? it is not just how we raise goes, it - now raising a daughter? it is not just how we raise goes, it is - now raising a daughter? it is notj just how we raise goes, it is how now raising a daughter? it is not. just how we raise goes, it is how we raise boys. and there needs to be more gentleness infused and raising boys because that way they can hopefully grow up to be men who are
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a bit more emotionally secure and with the way we raise girls and gentleness is there already but maybe we need to infuse a little more sense of resilience, sense of strength, a sense of not apologising for the people they are and also to teach girls that they do not need approval of everyone. we live in a word for so many girls just have been raised to think that if one person does not psyche that is the end of the world. ijust person does not psyche that is the end of the world. i just think person does not psyche that is the end of the world. ijust think it is a terrible thing to teach girls and so what i would say to young girls is, especially teenagers, someone says they don't like you it is important for you to say to that you also have the ability to like and dislike. it is important to think of themselves as subjects would have you not an object that someone says i like you, i don't like you. change your behaviourfor me. and over the abuse at all and you tell them actually a kind of don't like you too. and be someone who will like you in the world. ._ you in the world. . thank you so much. i really _ you in the world. . thank you so much. i really appreciated. - you in the world. . thank you so much. i really appreciated. and| much. i really appreciated. and thank you for your generosity and
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being so open until wellman talking to us about all these issues. thank ou. -- to us about all these issues. thank you- -- open _ to us about all these issues. thank you- -- open and _ to us about all these issues. thank you. -- open and so _ to us about all these issues. thank you. -- open and so warm. - to us about all these issues. thank you. -- open and so warm. he - to us about all these issues. thankj you. -- open and so warm. he was our you. -- open and so warm. he was your latest — you. -- open and so warm. he was your latest live _ you. -- open and so warm. he was your latest live update _ you. -- open and so warm. he was your latest live update from - you. -- open and so warm. he was your latest live update from bbc i your latest live update from bbc weather on a day for many places it is fine and breezy. sunshine and cold. forsome, well, is fine and breezy. sunshine and cold. for some, well, this weather disturbance has brought some snow. a good covering in places across parts of north—west england now moving through the midlands. just clipping into parts of yorkshire as well. you can see it on the latest radar picture here. a covering of a few centimetres coming down relatively short space of time out of this as well. difficult travel conditions. if you're in this it will continue to edgejust very if you're in this it will continue to edge just very slowly across the
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midlands over the next few hours. seeing rain and sleet and snow and plenty of showers along this north sea coast of rain, sleet, snow and it is quite blustery out there. even though it is not as windy as it has been there is wind—chill. it is a cold afternoon. what is left of the area sleet and snow will pull away from central southern england as we go on through the evening. showers along the north sea coast but they become few and far between. cloud increasing for north—west scotland for much of the uk it is a clear, cold, frosty night. there will be ice and untreated surfaces and wet weather around as well. starting the day with a lot of sunshine tomorrow but from northern ireland and increasingly so in scotland the cloud is moving in. rain, sleet and snow especially for the hills in scotland. heavy rain developing with a stronger wind. northern england, south—west england clouding up to. light rain moving in here. still
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sunny spells. cold in the east. 10 degrees in and glasgow, though. this area of cloud and what is left of the patchy rain as it moves south is actually coming with some milder air. a warm front which after an early frost towards the east of england in the evening temperatures will rise overnight and into tuesday morning. and it is indicated by these colours so different on tuesday morning. you'll feel much murder out there but there will be a lot of cloud around and patchy rain. heavy rain in scotland. look at the rain gathering. the wind is starting to pick up as well. widespread double figures on tuesday. this is not the first day of a permanent change, though, because damages are going to come down again. that vein clear southwards overnight into wednesday. temperatures dip. chile a brighter weather for a time. wednesday. temperatures dip. chile a brighter weatherfor a time. the brighter weather for a time. the chance brighter weatherfor a time. the chance of wintry showers. temperatures may valley a little bit towards the end of the week but it looks as if it will turn chile into
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next weekend with a chance of some wintry showers. this is bbc news with the latest headlines: the uk government promises it will be christmas as normal despite the discovery of the omicron variant of coronavirus. from tuesday, people in england will once again have to wear masks in shops and on public transport — the health secretary says ministers acted as quickly as they could. what we do know is much more about our own country and i think the speed at which we acted at, you know, it could not have been any faster. sir frank williams, founder and former team principal of the williams racing formula 1 team, has died aged 79.

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