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tv   BBC News  BBC News  October 31, 2021 4:00pm-4:31pm GMT

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this is bbc news. live in glasgow, as the cop26 summit — the crucial climate change conference — gets under way. 620 leaders in rome called for meaningful action to keep global warming to 1.5 celsius, they failed to, to net zero targets, but the host issued the cooperation of member states. we host issued the cooperation of member states.— host issued the cooperation of member states. we must focus on implementation _ member states. we must focus on implementation because _ member states. we must focus on implementation because rest - member states. we must focus on - implementation because rest assured, we will be judged on what we do, not what we say. the we will be judged on what we do, not what we say-— what we say. the british prime minister boris _ what we say. the british prime minister boris johnson - what we say. the british prime minister boris johnson is - what we say. the british prime minister boris johnson is due l what we say. the british prime | minister boris johnson is due to minister borisjohnson is due to address the 620 shortly, but prince charles has already spoken and added his voice to calls for more action
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to tackle climate change, telling leaders in rome they owe it to the next generation. cop26 begins in glasgow tomorrow — quite literally, it is the last—chance saloon. we must now translate fine words into still finer actions. in 6lasgow, the president of the cop26 climate conference describes the summit as our last best hope to limit global warming to 1.5 celsius by the end of the century. hello, and a very warm welcome to glasgow for our continuing coverage 6lasgow for our continuing coverage of the cop26 summit. we are in place
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and ina of the cop26 summit. we are in place and in a very good place as well, we are right in front of the conference hall where, in two weeks' time, we hope the world leaders will bring down the gavel on a summit that has been successful. this is where a lot of the discussion over the course of the next two weeks will take place, we are right in front of it so the leaders as they come out will be behind us and hopefully, many will come here to this table and tells what they have decided. almost 200 countries are represented here this week with some 25,000 delegates in glasgow. it is the biggest some of 6lasgow. it is the biggest some of the uk has ever hosted and probably the uk has ever hosted and probably the most important. what is decided here over the next two weeks will have enormous bearing on all our lives, for ourjobs, how we travel, how we build and heat our homes and offices, what we eat. this is the only collective forum in the world where they solely discuss climate change and this year, it will be a test of what we have achieved so far, whether countries are living up to the promises they have already made, and it will also be a summit
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to galvanise ambition. currently, our global emissions are forecast to grow 16% by 2030. they must be reduced by 45% to keep the global average temperature rise to 1.5 celsius. beyond that, for every 0.1 degrees the temperature rises, the problem will get exponentially worse. in large part, it depends on the collective will of the biggest countries and biggest emitters. their leaders have been in rome this afternoon for the 620 summit, but will the final communiqu match the scale of the challenge? james landale reports. for world leaders at the 620 summit, a brief roman holiday, gathering at the famous trevi fountain is for the cameras, a chance to chat away from their advisers. a huge burden still lies on the shoulders, for it is the job of borisjohnson and his italian counterpart to persuade these leaders to do more to reduce global
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warming. collectively, their economies produced 80% of the world's carbon emissions and some are reluctant to reduce their reliance on fossil fuels. was the prime minister whizzing —— which in full luck as he threw his coin into the fountain? 20 -- cop26 20 —— cop26 begins tomorrow in glasgow, quite literally, it is the 6lasgow, quite literally, it is the last chance saloon. we must now translate fine words into still fine actions. �* . , translate fine words into still fine actions. �* ., , ., actions. and as the enormity of the climate challenge _ actions. and as the enormity of the climate challenge dominates - actions. and as the enormity of the i climate challenge dominates people's conversations and as the future of humanity and nature herself are at stake, it is surely time to set
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aside our differences and grasp this unique opportunity to launch a substantial green recovery by putting the global economy on a confident, sustainable trajectory and thus save our planet. confident, sustainable tra'ectory and thus save our planet. alongside such heady stuff _ and thus save our planet. alongside such heady stuff became _ and thus save our planet. alongside such heady stuff became more - and thus save our planet. alongside - such heady stuff became more mundane politics. the prime minister and president macron spending 25 minutes discussing their dispute over fishing rights. agreeing, according to french officials, to work on practical measures to achieve a de—escalation of the row. but the focus of this summit remains the climate crisis. reports suggest the leaders will promise to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees above preindustrial levels, what matters is whether they will do enough to achieve it. well, since james sent that report, the italian host of the 620 summit, the italian host of the 620 summit, the prime minister mario draghi, has been speaking. he said he was proud of what had been achieved at the g20, of what had been achieved at the 620, but that people would judge
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them on their actions, not their promises. we them on their actions, not their promises-_ them on their actions, not their romises. ~ . , ., ., , promises. we are proud of these results, promises. we are proud of these results. but _ promises. we are proud of these results, but we _ promises. we are proud of these results, but we must _ promises. we are proud of these results, but we must remember| promises. we are proud of these . results, but we must remember this is only the start. we have the global poverty, malnutrition, gender and generational inequalities which demand a stronger action than we have taken so far. so i ask myself what we mean when we say we have succeeded. but in what have we succeeded? well, we have certainly pledged considerable resources. we also kept many of these commitments we increased their strength, their scope. but mostly, we made sure that our dreams as the secretary general of the united nations are not only alive, but also that they are progressing. now, as mark said, we must focus on implementation, implementation. because rest assured, we will be judged implementation. because rest assured, we will bejudged by implementation. because rest assured, we will be judged by what we do, not what we say.— assured, we will be judged by what we do, not what we say. mario draghi s-ueakin we do, not what we say. mario draghi speaking just — we do, not what we say. mario draghi speaking just a _ we do, not what we say. mario draghi
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speaking just a short _ we do, not what we say. mario draghi speaking just a short time _ we do, not what we say. mario draghi speaking just a short time ago. - we do, not what we say. mario draghi speaking just a short time ago. and i speaking just a short time ago. and i should say we are expecting boris johnson to address a press conference in rome and we will take you to that as and when he appears. but carrying some of that focus from rome into the summit in glasgow absolutely crucial because the 620 countries account for 80% of the world's omissions and they will be coming here from rome this evening. before they do so, we expect more detail on the communique so let's get more of that from our corresponded in rome, mark lohan. i know the real challenge is always pouring through the communiqu and trying to find the new ones, what you see in what they released over the course of the last hour? the draft communiqu _ the course of the last hour? tue: draft communiqu circulating the course of the last hour? tte: draft communiqu circulating here talks about how the 620 leaders will assume a meaningful and effective actions to pursue efforts to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees. so in that respect, it will give solace, i
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think, to some leaders hoping the 1.5 degrees goal would be written into that communiqu , but it does not actually go as far as saying, we will reach it, it simply says, we will reach it, it simply says, we will pursue efforts to reach it. the disappointment, i think, for many here and particularly among the environmental campaigners, is the hope to put into that communiqu that net zero carbon emissions should be achieved by 2050, well, thatis should be achieved by 2050, well, that is not in the draft we have seen. simply, there is a talk of how is key relevance of reaching net zero carbon emissions. so basically, the carbon produced will be offset by that removed from the atmosphere by that removed from the atmosphere by or around mid century. what we think is going on here is countries like italy were pushing for 2050 to be a firm date in the communiqu, but big emitters like china, india and russia were reluctant to have that because coal partly is such a
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big part of their energy plants and their power stations in those countries. and they are saying that they want to, to that by 2060. so that will be a big disappointment to many campaigners. let me read you a tweet from antonia 6utierrez, the un secretary general, i leave rome with my hopes unfulfilled, but at least they are not buried, adding this, onwards to glasgow. you they are not buried, adding this, onwards to glasgow.— they are not buried, adding this, onwards to glasgow. you talk about china who came _ onwards to glasgow. you talk about china who came up _ onwards to glasgow. you talk about china who came up with _ onwards to glasgow. you talk about china who came up with their- onwards to glasgow. you talk about china who came up with their new l china who came up with their new contribution a few days ago and there was a date, 2060, in that, rather than 2050 which some had hoped. they also said there emissions would peak in 2030. so no major cut of emissions before then. i suppose the question is, given the energy crisis many 6 ? met many leaders are facing, whether that has overshadowed in rome some of the discussions? t overshadowed in rome some of the discussions?— discussions? i think that is certainly — discussions? i think that is certainly a _ discussions? i think that is certainly a point _ discussions? i think that is certainly a point here - discussions? i think that is certainly a point here that| certainly a point here that countries like china have fallen back on coal even more during the
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energy crunch and of europe are relying more on gas, trying to import more gas, russian gas being a fossilfuel. these import more gas, russian gas being a fossil fuel. these are some of the difficulties the 620 has faced in taking big steps forward. i think the feeling here in rome is that the leaders of the world's largest economies, as you say, producing about 8% of global greenhouse emissions, have taken some part of a step forwards. not as far as many environmentalists certainly would have liked and some of the particularly western leaders. but in a sense, they have thrown it open to the wider forum where you are in glasgow, almost 200 world leaders 6lasgow, almost 200 world leaders gathered there and that is where the nitty—gritty needs to be worked out. in this draft communiqu , there is very little on the concrete actions that world leaders have promised to try to achieve 1.5 degrees and to achieve carbon neutrality by the middle of the century. those kind of
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key actions, the key investments and also the climate financing to poorer countries to give them $100 billion a yearfrom wealthier countries to give them $100 billion a year from wealthier countries to help them mitigate climate change and to decarbonise. that kind of detail i think has been pushed to glasgow for the climate talks that 6lasgow for the climate talks that lie ahead there. glasgow for the climate talks that lie ahead there.— lie ahead there. yes. it will be interesting _ lie ahead there. yes. it will be interesting to _ lie ahead there. yes. it will be interesting to hear— lie ahead there. yes. it will be interesting to hear what - lie ahead there. yes. it will be interesting to hear what boris| interesting to hear what boris johnson says in the next half an hour because he stakes a lot on this summit and of course, britain has gone a lot further than most, whether or not they deliver it is another question, but in terms of their targets, they have gone further. do you think what he has got in the communiqu allows him to come here to glasgow to make more progress? t come here to glasgow to make more rouress? ~ ., come here to glasgow to make more rouress? ~' ., progress? i think he will draw some comfort from _ progress? i think he will draw some comfort from that _ progress? i think he will draw some comfort from that mention - progress? i think he will draw some comfort from that mention of- progress? i think he will draw some comfort from that mention of 1.5 i comfort from that mention of 1.5 degrees. but remember, he had spoken, built it up very much, this 620 in rome, because it was seen as the vital stepping stone to glasgow.
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alok sharma, president of cop26, had said that the 620, he said a few days ago, it is make or breakfor 6lasgow. we have to see whether the g20 6lasgow. we have to see whether the 620 has made or broken cop26. the consensus is not it has broken it, the consensus is there has been a half step forward and that a lot more needs to be done. and italy for example has said that it is going to triple its climate financing over the next five years. we wait to see what britain will do on that. are there any new announcements in the upcoming press conference about britain's climate financing? all these leaders have a lot to play for and particularly britain and italy as co—host of cop26 and we wait to see what borisjohnson makes of this draft communiqu in his closing press conference which we expect in the next few minutes. star; press conference which we expect in the next few minutes.— the next few minutes. stay there, if ou the next few minutes. stay there, if you would. — the next few minutes. stay there, if you would. we _ the next few minutes. stay there, if you would, we are _ the next few minutes. stay there, if you would, we are seeing _ the next few minutes. stay there, if
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you would, we are seeing live - you would, we are seeing live pictures of mario draghi, the italian prime minister and host in rome. let'sjust have italian prime minister and host in rome. let's just have a listen. translation: rome. let'sjust have a listen. translation:— rome. let'sjust have a listen. translation: ., ., translation: there was a negative twist in the last _ translation: there was a negative twist in the last few _ translation: there was a negative twist in the last few years, _ translation: there was a negative twist in the last few years, we - translation: there was a negative twist in the last few years, we were l twist in the last few years, we were less able to work together. however, something happened at this meeting, something happened at this meeting, something changed, and this gives me hope, on the possibility that the g20 hope, on the possibility that the 620 seems to have rediscovered, which is to deal with what we have called those era defining changes such as covid—19, climate healthcare, the inequality in terms of gender and also wealth. and all the other challenges which we have to we have discovered in the last few years, win, we cannot resolve, we cannot even touch if we work on our own. president biden said that we wish to remember this summit is
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the one which was successful. and i will say something more about this in a moment. but we need to consider this summit only as the culmination of an entire year's work. it is therefore natural to ask ourselves what has happened over the last year. what the 620 was able to do first of all. the ministers who worked on 620, i would like to thank the ministers who worked incessantly and were able to give you those results, which we present to you, and some of them of course you have already seen over the last few months. whereas others are still unknown. a, ., months. whereas others are still unknown. ., , unknown. mario draghi 'ust addressing i unknown. mario draghi 'ust addressing the i unknown. mario draghi 'ust addressing the press h unknown. mario draghi 'ust addressing the press inh unknown. mario draghijust. addressing the press in rome, unknown. mario draghijust- addressing the press in rome, giving his thoughts on what happened over the course of the week. let's go back to mark lohan in rome listening across. it is interesting the point
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he makes, in many ways, countries have operated unilaterally through the pandemic and their performance when it comes to showing the vaccine in the developing world is pretty lamentable. he thinks something changed this week and the multilateral forum changed this week and the multilateralforum is coming back. it really has to come back, doesn't it? it has to shine through when it comes to climate change? absolutely. multilateralism _ comes to climate change? absolutely. multilateralism has _ comes to climate change? absolutely. multilateralism has very _ comes to climate change? absolutely. multilateralism has very much - comes to climate change? absolutely. multilateralism has very much been i comes to climate change? absolutely. multilateralism has very much been a| multilateralism has very much been a theme of mario draghi's statements throughout this 620. interesting you mention the fact that this is not just about climate change, it has also been about the pandemic. and i think on that committee 620 will be pleased that there has been a commitment to vaccinate 70% of the world by the middle of next year against covid—19, 40% by the end of this year. partly through this kovacs programme to give vaccine doses from wealthy countries to poorer countries. that covax is way
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off, they aims to produce 2 billion doses this year to poorer countries, that has been revised down because they were never going to meet the 2 billion target. so on the vaccine, on the way out of the pandemic, mario draghi and others have talked about multilateralism and also on climate. because there is a sense here that in a time of crisis, i suppose leaders have been worried about a retreat into isolationism and protectionism. but particularly the people likejoe biden, mario draghi and emmanuel macron, they have all spoken about the need to come together and to recognise this as a global emergency. it was very interesting that prince charles for example addressed the 620 this morning. very rare for a royal family member to be invited to a 620. but the fact that he came here and spoke very forcefully of the need to be spurred into action, to
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protect, to take action on behalf of, as you put it, the as yet unborn generation, that is a recognition that all forces now need to be mobilised in a multilateral way to try to fight climate change and to keep these goals of 1.5 degrees cap on global warming alive. mark lowen in rome, on global warming alive. mark lowen in rome. thank— on global warming alive. mark lowen in rome, thank you _ on global warming alive. mark lowen in rome, thank you very _ on global warming alive. mark lowen in rome, thank you very much - on global warming alive. mark lowen in rome, thank you very much for. in rome, thank you very much for your analysis. in rome, thank you very much for youranalysis. let's in rome, thank you very much for your analysis. let's turn to things here in glasgow because the formalities to get under way this morning and officially, the presidency was handed overfrom chile to the uk and italy, they share the presidency this year, the summit was supposed to be held last year and was postponed because of the pandemic and that will complicate things this week. the organisation and the choreography of a summit this size is dizzying at the best of times. head of the summit, we have had a number of reports that spell out the seriousness of the situation. the latest ipcc report tells us this has been the hottest five years on record and since 1970, the global
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average temperature has risen at the fastest rate of any 50 year period in 2000 years. think on that. in his opening statement this afternoon, the cop president alok sharma said this summit is probably the world's last hope. alok sharma, elected president... the global summit is finally under way. 6lasgow is hosting world leaders and thousands of delegates for these crucial climate change talks. the president of cop26 told andrew marr that keeping globalwarming to 1.5 c would be challenging. if we look at all the commitments that have been made, and i said we're heading towards 2, how is it that over this next decade, indeed over the next few years, we close that gap so that we get closer to 1.5?
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and that is something i am going to try and help to build consensus on at this summit. the swedish teenager 6reta thunberg arrived in glasgow by train last night, mobbed by fellow activists. she had voiced concern that cop26 would not lead to significant changes, but said it's not too late to do what we can. if we switched our focus from trying to create loopholes and excuses to not take action, which is very much the case now, no matter how you see it, if we switched from that focus to actually trying to combat climate change in a way that would actually solve it, taking into account the whole perspective, then i think that we could achieve massive changes. the scottish weather outside is dull and security is tight. inside, the stakes are high. as talks begin on how to cut carbon emissions by 2030. in edinburgh this morning, activists gathered to have their voices heard.
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they want more done to tackle climate change here in scotland and around the world. alexander mackenzie, bbc news, 6lasgow. yes, indeed, the weather is dull. and it is battering off the roof above us and some of the trees have come down up and down the country so some of those trains coming north from euston, london, have been badly delayed. 6reta is here safely. one of the main principles of the paris accord was to ensure —— and sure countries would revisit their pledges and set new and more ambitious proposals, they call that the ratchet. that is why in recent weeks and months, countries like the uk and the united states and many in the eu have come forward with these nationally determined contributions and they will talk a lot about it, and they will talk a lot about it, and dcs. 49 countries have committed to a net zero target by 2050 and
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another a0 have indicated they will set similar targets. but are the policies they are setting out honest and will they work? one key part of the mix is carbon capture & storage, a technology that has existed for 50 years and it forms a major part of many countries plans to get to net zero. yet today, globally, we capture bailey 0.1% of what we emit. and we need to be capturing at least 10% by 2030. -- and we need to be capturing at least 10% by 2030. —— belly. stuart hazell dean is from edinburgh university and is one of the world's foremost experts on carbon capture & storage. professor, lovely to have your expertise on the programme. this technology we have had for 50 years, does it work?— does it work? yes, it has been workin: does it work? yes, it has been working since _ does it work? yes, it has been working since the _ does it work? yes, it has been working since the 1970s - does it work? yes, it has been working since the 1970s in - does it work? yes, it has been i working since the 1970s in many applications worldwide. but not all focused on climate mitigation, it is used often in oil refineries and natural gas production. but there is
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no doubt millions of tonnes a year can be captured, transported and stored safely underground by this type of technology.— type of technology. professor hazeldene — type of technology. professor hazeldene so _ type of technology. professor hazeldene so why _ type of technology. professor hazeldene so why has - type of technology. professor hazeldene so why has it - type of technology. professor hazeldene so why has it not l type of technology. professor - hazeldene so why has it not been rolled out more widely than is the case at the moment? 50 rolled out more widely than is the case at the moment?— rolled out more widely than is the case at the moment? so you are quite riaht case at the moment? so you are quite ri . ht that case at the moment? so you are quite right that we — case at the moment? so you are quite right that we are _ case at the moment? so you are quite right that we are way _ case at the moment? so you are quite right that we are way behind _ case at the moment? so you are quite right that we are way behind on - case at the moment? so you are quite right that we are way behind on this i right that we are way behind on this type of action. because in all of the climate simulations and modelling of how to get to net zero, carbon capture & storage is essential for the last 20%, it is the most difficult 20% this helps you with. but i think we are stuck with the political inaction and the market inaction which has not been led by governments, so governments need to get on the front foot and try innovating this and make this business as usual in their countries, and this means doing slightly tough things like either putting a tax or a price on carbon dioxide emissions so it is cheaper to capture or at the alternative
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end, just saying that we are not going to place a price on it, use the oil and —— you are the oil and gas and coal producers, you have to store one tonne of carbon for every tonne of carbon you produce and only that way will we get into the arithmetic balance of the carbon emission with the carbon take—back obligation which has to make it work. 50 obligation which has to make it work. , obligation which has to make it work, , , work. so it is putting the obligation _ work. so it is putting the obligation on _ work. so it is putting the obligation on the - work. so it is putting the i obligation on the emitters. work. so it is putting the - obligation on the emitters. but it is also ensuring that for those who develop the technology, there is a profit and incentive to get more and more companies using it, correct? correct, because nothing in our industrial society really works for very long unless it makes a profit. but that is not as difficult as it sounds because if the tax is included all the obligation, the cost of disposal of co2 is included in the price we all pay for the fundamental product, the petrol or the diesel or the gas which goes to form the electricity we use in our homes, then actually, that
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fundamental product, the oil, gas or coal, is only a tiny amount of what we end up paying. so if we want to store all the carbon dioxide from one litre of petrol for example, that would only cost about another 15p a litre. and we havejust that would only cost about another 15p a litre. and we have just seen petrol rise by 15p a litre in most of europe. so this is well within the bounds of possibility. but politicians have to be bold enough to grab that and to make that happen. so what this summit needs to do is good into actions, notjust evasive promises, countries need to work together to make definite plans, with dates and amounts of carbon dioxide decreased and captured. and those plans, i think, should be published every year. a five year gap between the ratchet is too slow and we need to get faster, faster and accelerate.— faster and accelerate. yes, it gives a very important — faster and accelerate. yes, it gives a very important point _ faster and accelerate. yes, it gives a very important point and - faster and accelerate. yes, it gives a very important point and mark. a very important point and mark carney, the former governor of the bank of england, now a un envoy
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corralling world finances, talked about this and when we talked about how he is going to get money behind it. can i talk to about the technicalities and do excuse my ignorance because i don't fully understand the technology, but is it just about capping and taking off the emissions from coal and gas or can this technology we used to suck carbon dioxide out of the general atmosphere?— carbon dioxide out of the general atmoshere? ~ , ., , , atmosphere? well, it can be applied to both those _ atmosphere? well, it can be applied to both those and _ atmosphere? well, it can be applied to both those and also _ atmosphere? well, it can be applied to both those and also multiple - to both those and also multiple other actions. to both those and also multiple otheractions. so to both those and also multiple other actions. so it is traditionally, if you like, thought of as a technology which can reduce and decrease and capture emissions from electricity generation by coal or methane gas. but it is very clear that we have large amounts of carbon dioxide emitted from industries, our fundamental big industries, notjust chemical industries, but also making steel and cement and fertiliser, all of those emit carbon dioxide. and the uk actually is leading the world
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on trying to show a pathway on how to use carbon capture to decrease those emissions. so we in the uk announced two weeks ago two of our large regions would be decarbonising and try to get to zero carbon around 20a0. and also, as you mentioned, in addition to that, the third aspect of carbon capture & storage is you can indeed capture carbon dioxide from the atmosphere around us so that has been done. there are several pilot plants which are just starting off, that is at a more experimental stage, starting off, that is at a more experimentalstage, but starting off, that is at a more experimental stage, but that technology differently works. we can separate carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and slowly reduce carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and put that back underground. but that is expensive and it means a lot of construction. so the first things to do to become more efficient, then to capture the carbon dioxide from making electricity, then to capture carbon dioxide from the industries and the heat we use and then last of
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all, do that direct air capture you just talked about. tt all, do that direct air capture you just talked about.— just talked about. it sounds promising _ just talked about. it sounds promising with _ just talked about. it sounds promising with the - just talked about. it sounds promising with the right - just talked about. it sounds - promising with the right amount of financing. where are we going to put all this carbon we suck out of the atmosphere?— all this carbon we suck out of the atmoshere? . , ., ., , ., atmosphere? that is a great question and auain, atmosphere? that is a great question and again. rain _ atmosphere? that is a great question and again, rain the _ atmosphere? that is a great question and again, rain the university - atmosphere? that is a great question and again, rain the university of - and again, rain the university of edinburgh and the uk as a whole and many other countries worldwide and gas and oil companies have done research and development on this literally since the year 2000. so we have 20 years of understanding about how to do this. the answer to your question is that by capturing carbon dioxide, we can then pressurise it to make it into a liquid, just like in a fire extinguisher. the carbon dioxide is liquid. then we pipeline that using an oil and gas type of pipeline to inject deep down into the porous, tiny pores in the rock deep beneath the north sea or deep beneath the ground in any place which has had oil and gas extracted from it. whether a very abundant sandstone layer which can take back
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the carbon dioxide and also have impermeable layers of rock on the top like a slate roof which stops the carbon dioxide from leaking out. so we know that we can put carbon dioxide into the ground and we know that we can have a 50% certainty, this is slightly difficult, 50% certainty that 98%, practically all the common dioxide, will stay there for 10,000 years into the future. so it is by far the best and by far the simplest and by far the cheapest way of storing and taking away huge tonnages of carbon dioxide. bud of storing and taking away huge tonnages of carbon dioxide. and we don't think it _ tonnages of carbon dioxide. and we don't think it will _ tonnages of carbon dioxide. and we don't think it will leach _ tonnages of carbon dioxide. and we don't think it will leach out. - tonnages of carbon dioxide. and we don't think it will leach out. it - tonnages of carbon dioxide. and we don't think it will leach out. it is - don't think it will leach out. it is interesting you talk about the way we can store this and where we can put it. we are hugely experienced now, incredibly talented, in fact, a drilling for oil and even the most difficult positions. so why are we
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not incentivising the oil and gas companies to start drilling these boreholes and we pay them for that to store the carbon that of course their product creates? t to store the carbon that of course their product creates?— to store the carbon that of course their product creates? i think that is a very appropriate _ their product creates? i think that is a very appropriate question. - their product creates? i think that l is a very appropriate question. and again, the answer to that is that in europe and indeed in the uk still, we are focused on trying to reduce emissions so that if you are a big industry and you want to carry on emitting carbon dioxide, you pay money and you buy a permit to carry on polluting. and i think that's the wrong way round. what we need to do is pay the oil and gas companies who have the technology, or pay any company who wants to get involved in injecting and storing carbon dioxide. so we need to focus a lot more on creating that market. rate of carbon dioxide because that is what will benefit us all. and we can do that either by creating very, very large amounts of tax, literally hundreds or thousands of dollars per
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tonne of carbon dioxide tax, which will then make everything really, really expensive. or we can focus on telling oil companies and coal companies and carbon producers that this is what they have to do if they want to operate in our country. so that obligation is placed on the companies so that if they have the technology to bring carbon out of the ground, they have to find and develop the technology, which they all do now already have, they developed the technology to put the carbon back into the ground. and that cost of putting the carbon into the ground ultimately will be paid by small increases of price to us, the consumers. because at the moment, we are effectively behaving as if instead of putting our rubbish in wheelie bins and having it taken away by the council, that is the smart thing to do, what we are presently all doing is having our carbon dioxide and just dumping it in the street outside our house so we are not paying the true price of
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clearing up the consequences of

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