tv The Media Show BBC News October 7, 2021 2:30am-3:01am BST
this is bbc news. at the world's first malaria vaccine produced by a pharmaceutical company at gsk is used to help children in africa. it follows to pilots. the world health organization has endorsed its wide use. sheikh mohammed al—maktoum has been found to secretly hack the fines of his wife. denies any involved in. and the battle to avoid a shutdown of the us government remains in a stalemate with no vote imminent in the us congress to raise the debt ceiling and keep the money flowing. republicans and democrats disagree over how much resident biden can spend on his reconstruction plan and the debt ceiling vote has been caught up in that row.
now on bbc news, it is time for the media show. this week, sir kier starmer delivered his speech to a pad conference. today we want to explore his current relationship with the media. does he have the same level that tony blair example enjoyed? do the newspapers not much by about public opinion and what about those new outlets? how is shifting to the centre of the party, how do they see their roles now. jane merrick is policy editor at a newspaper. she was political editor of the independent on sunday. you have been on
twitter with your assessment of the speech. do all your readers go to twitter first or wait for in—depth analysis? i go to twitter first or wait for in-depth analysis?— in-depth analysis? i was treating _ in-depth analysis? i was treating a _ in-depth analysis? i was treating a very _ in-depth analysis? i was treating a very long - in-depth analysis? i was i treating a very long thread. in-depth analysis? i was - treating a very long thread. it is a mix. the first take is a few tweets but i will be writing a speech which is a half written, about what his policy agenda is and whether it is enough to win the next election. a long way to go but are these the policies that can win labour the election. aaron is co-founder _ win labour the election. aaron is co-founder of _ win labour the election. aaron is co-founder of an _ win labour the election. aaron i is co-founder of an independent is co—founder of an independent left—wing media company. i have been looking at the navarro website. you are saying that keir starmer is just as keir starmer isjust as dishonest as keir starmer is just as dishonest as boris keir starmer isjust as dishonest as borisjohnson and that he rings the rules. is
that he rings the rules. is that the kind of dramatic statement and the reason why your readers go to you? i would not say it _ your readers go to you? i would not say it is _ your readers go to you? i would not say it is dramatic. _ your readers go to you? i would not say it is dramatic. people i not say it is dramatic. people have — not say it is dramatic. people have opinions. the thesis of that— have opinions. the thesis of that is— have opinions. the thesis of that is available for anybody who — that is available for anybody who wants to read it. in terms of our— who wants to read it. in terms of our coverage, we have reporters and the first port of call, — reporters and the first port of call, it— reporters and the first port of call, it would be through inaudible. we have a show which looks_ inaudible. we have a show which looks at— inaudible. we have a show which looks at the conference as well as other— looks at the conference as well as other stories across the day~ — as other stories across the day. principally increasingly it is — day. principally increasingly it is youtube and instagram. jack— it is youtube and instagram. jack is — it is youtube and instagram.
jack is the _ it is youtube and instagram. jack is the founder of london economics. jack is the founder of london economics— jack is the founder of london economics. breeze of blogging etrol for economics. breeze of blogging petrol for the _ economics. breeze of blogging petrol for the drupal _ economics. breeze of blogging petrol for the drupal the - petrol for the drupal the prize. — — british people. nearly half of the media most responsible for petrol stations are running out of fuel. what you to that? i are running out of fuel. what you to that?— you to that? i think there is chaos at — you to that? i think there is chaos at the _ you to that? i think there is chaos at the pumps. - you to that? i think there is chaos at the pumps. we . you to that? i think there is l chaos at the pumps. we were tipped — chaos at the pumps. we were tipped off— chaos at the pumps. we were tipped off about _ chaos at the pumps. we were tipped off about a _ chaos at the pumps. we were tipped off about a story - tipped off about a story brazenly _ tipped off about a story brazenly selling - tipped off about a story brazenly selling ten - tipped off about a story l brazenly selling ten litres tipped off about a story - brazenly selling ten litres of petrol— brazenly selling ten litres of petrol for— brazenly selling ten litres of petrol for 50 _ brazenly selling ten litres of petrol for 50 quiz. - brazenly selling ten litres of petrol for 50 quiz. if- brazenly selling ten litres of petrol for 50 quiz. if you - brazenly selling ten litres of. petrol for 50 quiz. if you look at the — petrol for 50 quiz. if you look at the cause _ petrol for 50 quiz. if you look at the cause of— petrol for 50 quiz. if you look at the cause of the _ petrol for 50 quiz. if you look at the cause of the crisis, - petrol for 50 quiz. if you look at the cause of the crisis, it l at the cause of the crisis, it spiraiied _ at the cause of the crisis, it spiralled into _ at the cause of the crisis, it spiralled into a _ at the cause of the crisis, it spiralled into a huge - at the cause of the crisis, it spiralled into a huge story. at the cause of the crisis, it. spiralled into a huge story but there — spiralled into a huge story but there is— spiralled into a huge story but there is no— spiralled into a huge story but there is no smoke _ spiralled into a huge story but there is no smoke without- spiralled into a huge story butj there is no smoke without fire so, yes, — there is no smoke without fire so, yes, the _ there is no smoke without fire so, yes, the media _ there is no smoke without fire so, yes, the media has- there is no smoke without fire so, yes, the media has had i there is no smoke without fire so, yes, the media has had ai so, yes, the media has had a role — so, yes, the media has had a role in — so, yes, the media has had a role in track— so, yes, the media has had a role in back tracing _ so, yes, the media has had a role in back tracing that. - role in back tracing that. however— role in back tracing that. however what _ role in back tracing that. however what sort - role in back tracing that. however what sort of. role in back tracing that. - however what sort of media? sociat— however what sort of media? social media _ however what sort of media? social media will— however what sort of media?
social media will have - social media will have photoqraphs - social media will have photographs of - social media will have photographs of long l social media will have - photographs of long queues and fi-ht photographs of long queues and fight but — photographs of long queues and fight but we _ photographs of long queues and fight but we would _ photographs of long queues and fight but we would be _ photographs of long queues and fight but we would be saying, i fight but we would be saying, make — fight but we would be saying, make sure _ fight but we would be saying, make sure that _ fight but we would be saying, make sure that you _ fight but we would be saying, make sure that you consumel make sure that you consume petrol— make sure that you consume petrol sensibly _ make sure that you consume petrol sensibly and - make sure that you consume petrol sensibly and that i make sure that you consume petrol sensibly and that we l petrol sensibly and that we think— petrol sensibly and that we think about _ petrol sensibly and that we think about carers - petrol sensibly and that we think about carers and i think about carers and frontline _ think about carers and frontline workers i think about carers and frontline workers as i think about carers and i frontline workers as the priority _ frontline workers as the priority. we _ frontline workers as the priority. we also - frontline workers as the i priority. we also published a story, — priority. we also published a story. probably— priority. we also published a story, probably at _ priority. we also published a story, probably at the - priority. we also published a story, probably at the same i story, probably at the same time, — story, probably at the same time, looking _ story, probably at the same time, looking back- story, probably at the same time, looking back to - story, probably at the same time, looking back to a i story, probably at the same . time, looking back to a select committee _ time, looking back to a select committee report— time, looking back to a select committee report from - time, looking back to a select committee report from 2016 i committee report from 2016 which — committee report from 2016 which puts _ committee report from 2016 which puts in— committee report from 2016 which puts in quite - committee report from 2016 which puts in quite clear- which puts in quite clear detail— which puts in quite clear detail how— which puts in quite clear detail how the _ which puts in quite clear. detail how the government which puts in quite clear- detail how the government was mod _ detail how the government was mod about— detail how the government was mod about this _ detail how the government was mod about this happening i detail how the government was. mod about this happening within a month— mod about this happening within a month of— mod about this happening within a month of the _ mod about this happening within a month of the brexit _ a month of the brexit referendum. - a month of the brexit referendum. no i a month of the brexit i referendum. no smoke a month of the brexit - referendum. no smoke without fire and — referendum. no smoke without fire and they _ referendum. no smoke without fire and they knew. _ referendum. no smoke without fire and they knew. lara - referendum. no smoke without fire and they knew.— fire and they knew. lara or rile is fire and they knew. lara or riley is media _ fire and they knew. lara or riley is media editor- fire and they knew. lara or riley is media editor at i riley is media editor at insider and before we get into the politics, netflix ceo, a former media show guests, has been speaking to the press. what was he saying? what is quite interesting is this week netflix has released some dates
it does not usually sell. —— data. there were a couple of surprising most popular show findings. the big one was that it knew korean language series, squid game, a korean version of hunger games, not only could it be its biggest not english show of all time, but its biggest show. it has got great reviews. it is interesting to see international having such a big play. why do you think he is giving out this sort of data? they have been accused of being quite opaque before. tv executives and other people in the media have often grumbled that netflix doesn't release its viewership numbers,
and can basically say whatever it wants about the success of its shows at a time when it's plain to see that traditional tv ratings are failing. also at a time when netflix is spending billions of dollars and out—bidding those tv companies and getting exclusive access to content and so on. another big gripe for tv execs is when they've done their outside research into netflix shows in the past, the shows that it says are most successful, it usually bases on a metric which is essentially the number of households that watched at least two minutes of a show within the first month of its release. what they say about that is that's all well and good, but what happens if you've got a very strong first episode and everybody hates it later? where is everybody watches our point of view for strictly come dancing or whatever. this time it's released data on a different metric, which is the number that actually watched, i'm sorry, the total hours that were viewed
within the 28 days. it gives you much more of a picture. as to the series that netflix views have a chilly been such an vault. ok, that's the streaming giant that's been shaking things up. let's turn to the political news outlets that have in their own ways been shaking things up. jack, you've been on the media show before back in 2017 at that point you had the most shared piece of any news outlook during the 2017 election. for listeners who don't know, what is the london economic? the london economic was born seven years ago, largely out of the financial crash, and it was a paper that was trying to explain to regular people whatjust happened, really, and why they were suffering the effects of a great market explosion without the jargon and the complicated bids. without the jargon and the complicated bits.
we've effectively grown into what i would describe as a metropolitan publication with a metropolitan mind—set. it's progressive and liberal, with inclusive viewpoints, but we also promote entrepreneurialism. we understand how businesses can provide solutions. you say you're metropolitan — does that mean that you're not interested in appealing to readers who are from the traditional red wall areas, that's not of interest to you? i wouldn't say that viewers per se, we wouldn't draw a line under any sort of audience anywhere, really. we are a newspaper. we are here to serve quite a clearly defined demographic and so i guess in some regards that may be true, yeah. 0k.
you do also have a deliberately tabloid feel. i was very tempted in the office earlier to open the story "watch a naked man stroll down london street before his semi—clothed pal knocked a cyclist off bike." fantastic. but that's click bait, isn't it? is that how you make money? no, not at all. to touch on the tabloid nature of the newspaper, i agree, i think that tabloid has become sort of like polluted by the red tops. what we were doing right at the start was trying to make more complicated matters such as politics and economics accessible. obviously, like any newspaper, we are notjust a politics newspaper we have food and sport and lifestyle pages. we obviously try to cater
to a broad audience. i think using the tabloid format to communicate with people is not a bad thing. what is your business model? how do you make money? we make money through advertising and that comes through a various range of forms. effectively we've been self sustainable for a number of years and have been lucky enough to build a team on the back of now stuff which is becoming popular. remind us how navarro media covers its costs. in ideological terms you do practice what you preach, don't you? well, i hope so. yeah. we have 18 staff and we also have freelancers,
we pay our freelancers more than we pay our stuff because they don't have pensions and holidays. we have no advertising is set for you too. we have advertising revenue coming in. the overwhelming majority of our income, 85 plus % is from supporters who are quite happy to make a regular payment to support our work. and that's not that unique when you think about for instance the guardian, which is free to read but they say, would you like to support ourjournalism because we produce something quite distinct from the mail or the express. there is a significantly large audience that is willing to pay for it. they're willing to also pay for the idea that other people can read this content without there being a payoff. we operate something quite similar. yes, it's worked and my message to people who are sceptical about that, or want to enter the media, there is a huge appetite for new ways of doing things,
different kind of content, for what you might see in media. you can find your audience, this great essay by kevin kelly, about 20 years ago. many of the lessons in that essay, highly recommended, are still pertinent. we found our audience, it's growing and we are growing and were very happy to be able to do that while being core with our values. like the london economic you did very well under thejeremy corbyn bounce so what has happened to your traffic since then? last year was the best year for us by far. our youtube audience doubled — i think you can put that down to many people getting content online. obviously they were stuck indoors because of lockdown. for me i don't think jeremy corbyn is why we have grown. look at the sun newspaper for instance, murdoch comes into the british market in the late '60s,
early '70s, he identified baby boomers and he has really been a content journey with those people his entire career. i think for us in media we look at millenniums and look at gen 2 and say we know where you are, we want to craft stories and offer insight where you like to see them. and we are going to go on a journey with you. we have an audience right now in their '30s and '20s but we want to grow. when they're in their '40s, '50s making decisions, having influence it going through media just like people in the sunday times. yes, these sites are doing pretty good traffic and still having a healthy following. how have papers like yours changed in response as a reaction? i think it's really interesting that there are websites like navarro which did really well underjeremy corbyn they were quite disruptive in an interesting way.
i think no matter what their politics is there are a mix of really good politics and generational readership, followership and people going online. our newspaper is read by a broad scope of ages. we have young readers, student readers, older readers, they can get the newspaper for 65p or go online. what legacy newspapers have done is really improve our online offering. maybe not so much in direct response butjust an awareness of where this media is going. we have a much fuller online offering i think than we did five or ten years ago. i think that shows the website today. let's go back to the political events of this week. keir starmer in the party conference. how well do you think starmer and his team handle the media?
i would have said before today there have been teething problems. i think they have been on the eve of the conference we would've expected a big interview say with the guardian. and he did something with the sunday mirror but i think the guardian, there wasn't really a major piece there. i think he struggled because of the pandemic and because ofjust where we are with the labour party. i think he has struggled to have a proper hearing from the press. and i think that part of that is because he hasn't been able to break through due to covid, but also because he hasn't really, as he said today, got his house in order. i think today that's been a slight game changer in terms of how the media regard him. i'lljust read another tweet the political editor of the sun who said long road to go but at least the opposition
are finally having a crack at credibility. that's a really interesting response from them. i think, a long way to go but i think he delivered a speech today that shows that he is serious about winning the general election. we will develop that a little bit more. do you agree with jane? i think he's been in post now for about 18 months. i think the majority of that has been a shambles. you look at the local elections, hartlepool. in a way covid should been a gift. to him strange to say we've gone through this appalling. but he had a real opportunity, he was given time, most of his opposition in the job which i think the people in the media don't really say. it is incredibly difficultjob,
he had time to get his policy messages right and i think we need to understand, strong communication, whether it's brexit, starmer now, tends to be because of policy. and i think politics and policy are separate — if he could get the comms right, i think it's set you up for a hiding to nothing. in terms of the strategy now — their approach which was adopted 20 years ago, and i think it would be foolish to say that it can't work. i think that would be foolish. however, i think it was considerably changed last 20 years. what is the policy offer from starmer, we don't know. i think the conclusion i had leaving we have been fighting in the labour party. and i look at my phone and am getting videos of people having scraps on petrol forecourts. it does feel to me that this conversation of electability and presenting himself to the country is kind of disassociated from the reality. i agree, i thought it was an adequate speech, it wasn't a bad speech.
it was a bad speech i think he was in trouble. but i don't see him mastering the media in a way that will be necessary for labour. we know labour in this country has structural faults which favours the tories. it will take something really special from keir starmer to do with the majority to and right now surrounded by the people he is, i don't see it, i don't see it. importantly i don't see it at all with new media at all, not one bit. let's talk about how that much change. do you think he needs a political big hitter from the press to work with him? blair had campbell — what you think? yeah, that's an interesting question. he's got matthew doyle, who when i started in the lobby 20 years ago, matthew was running the rebuttal union in the labour press office. he's got real experience.
he worked for tony blair after tony blair left power. and i think that's allowed some jeremy corbyn supporters to say it's a tony blair tribute act. but matthew doyle is a professional, he understands communication. i think aaron's right, he could've done much more with the pandemic and getting things in order. but i don't think you really need a kind of lobby name or a big tv name any more. i don't think it matters as much as getting the message right and getting that through. i think it is about credibility and i think he's made a big step today in making that credibility. so names banded around like kevin maguire, you don't think that's necessary? i don't think it's necessary because i think that where tony blair was when he took alastair campbell on, in the early days, i think it was sort of a different sense...
tony blair was seen as an ex— prime minister. i think the jury is still out with keir starmer. i think there's such a long way to go. i think we may see keir starmer needing to fight two elections if his party will allow him that. because boris johnson is still pretty popular as we've been discussing, despite the terrible pandemic, despite the fuel crisis. i don't think he can attract big names at the moment but i don't think he necessarily needs to. i think he needs to get his own position and his own policies and his own team right to then be able to say right, we can win the election. that takes me to your relationship and your colleagues' relationship with jeremy corbyn. did you in any way help shape policies do you think or test media lines? no, and this is something that has been thrown at us repeatedly. you outright with corbin or whatever. the frank reality was corbyn and his people were so over stretched with the challenges they faced internally and externally they didn't even have the time to do that kind of stuff. the kind of intricate rebuttal, building relationships, they didn't do it.
they should've done it. do we feed into policy? i think some of the stuff that came in 2017 and 2019 certainly fed into some of that. but i don't think it was ever really in encouraging way. one think about keir starmer and i agree, if his party gives him two bites of the cherry, the big difference between starmer and blair is when they brought in alastair in the mid— '90s and the mirror image within the last week they had john prescott. they got the trade unions on their side. and people forget that blair took
people on a journey, it was a popularjourney with mass consent. i think starmer overstepped the mark last week in his initial proposal which collapsed. and i think he needs to learn a lesson from that. you can't bully people in a way that wasn't even being done by tony blair at his peak. there was a little bit of hubris. i think starmer and his team may beg to differ with you. we won't get into politics too much. jack, tell me, in terms of corbyn and his team did you have contact with them, were you allied with them? no, not at all. as a newspaper- i think we were born out of a lot of the same things ideologically. i but we were never purposely, in fact we were never alignedl with the labour party . then, we're not aligned with them now. we're just as likely to talk i to rory stewart and sean berry as we are to talk to i any of corbyn's shadow cabinet and indeed any i of keir starmer's cabinet. so the short answer
is probably no, no. i jane, we do assume that the papers on the left, the mirror and the guardians, will always support the labour leader and the papers on the right — the daily mail and the telegraph etc will support the conservative leader. but it's not always that simple? no, obviously in the late 1970s, murdoch supported blair famously — a very close relationship there. i think that's slightly different now. i don't think the labour leader needs that murdoch press now. i don't think it's crucial.
it's obviously important but it's not that crucial. the guardian i think didn't explicitly act the labour party the last election, the election before. it's more complicated. i think that's the difference because of social media you don'tjust need newspaper backings and i think it's much more open. what about on the conservative side? will every paper support every tory leader? i think they will. i think when it comes down to it. i had to raise a smile a couple weeks ago when borisjohnson brought forward his social care plan and there was a huge thundering comment piece in the telegraph saying that they couldn't possibly see how this could ever pass and it was sort of the end of conservatism. and interestingly enough it was a good debate there that boris johnson started about whether he could get tax rises passed in his party. when it comes to it, four weeks on until election ease going to get the backing of the daily mail, who get the backing of the daily telegraph i think that's... going back to the question at the top of the programme, how much sway do
you think the press hold over public opinion anyway? i think we still do. but not to the extent where in 97 and 2001 it really didn't matter sort of getting the sun's support did.... i wouldn't say swung the election because i think the sun always saw the way the wind was blowing. i think it's more diffuse now because of social media. it evenly spread out. that's all we have time for today. thanks to all my guests. to lara riley, to jane merrick, policy editor at the eye and the founder of the london economic. the media show will be back next week at the same time. for now, thanks forjoining us.
hello there. tuesday's wind and rain was a distant memory by wednesday. in fact, some areas where we'd seen the heavy, persistent rain across north east england had a beautiful day, with some sunny spells, a dry story and feeling pleasantly warm. now, it's going to get warmer still over the next couple of days. average temperatures at this time of year around the mid—teens. by friday, we're likely to see temperatures peaking at around 21 celsius, 70 fahrenheit, so at least a good five degrees above where they should be for the time of year. and one of the reasons is because of this weather front that, yes, is going to bring some cloud and rain into the north and west, but it's driving in warm air with a south—westerly feed of wind direction. and you really will notice the difference when you step outside first thing in the morning. may well be a cloudy start to thursday with a little bit of drizzle around, and, yes, that persistent rain from that weather front affecting parts of southern and western scotland, along with northern ireland as well. but elsewhere the cloud should break up, we should see some glimpses of sunshine and a pleasant afternoon for many, particularly in comparison to the weather earlier on in the week, with temperatures peaking at 20 degrees. that's 68 fahrenheit. now, fog could be an issue first thing on friday morning across central and southern areas. that will slowly lift into low
cloud, and hopefully that cloud should again start to break up for some sunshine to come through on friday. our weather front not moving very far very fast, still producing some relentless rain across northern ireland and western scotland, but still a relatively warm feel. the east of scotland, 19—20 degrees. we're likely to see 21 somewhere. that's 70 fahrenheit. as we move into the weekend, though, that weather front gradually meanders its way steadily south and east, so it will start to bring a change, but it's a slow process. ahead of it, again dry, settled with some sunshine and once again some warmth. behind it, starting to show the first signs of a change. a slightly fresher feel, mid—teens maybe in the far north—west of scotland. but we could still see those temperatures, 19—20 degrees not out of the question. the weather front will take its time to clear away. once it does so, it's then going to allow for a cooler air source as the winds swing round to more of a north—westerly, and so you really will notice the difference with the feel of the weather as we go through the week ahead. starting off quite promising, but getting noticeably cooler, but still fairly dry.
welcome to bbc news, i'm lewis vaughanjones. ourtop welcome to bbc news, i'm lewis vaughanjones. our top stories: the world health organization approved vaccine against malaria which could save hundreds of thousands of lives across the globe each year. the rts,s vaccine is a game changer and it's arriving at the right time. the battle to avoid a shutdown of the us government remains in a stalemate with no vote imminent to raise the debt ceiling. homes destroyed and thousands forced out. the bbc has found evidence of the taliban