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tv   BBC News  BBC News  October 5, 2021 9:00pm-10:01pm BST

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this is bbc news with me, christian fraser. a former facebook employee tells a senate hearing the company puts profit over the safety of its users. frances haugen leaked thousands of internal documents from facebook which show the company has known for years how much damage social media is having on the mental health of teenage girls. i'm here today because i believe facebook�*s products harm children, stoke division and weaken our democracy. a damning inquiry in france uncovers sexual abuse by french priests on an industrial scale. would a tax on virgin plastics help stop the build up of waste in our oceans? a us senator will tells us about the bill he is sponsoring to carry the fight to the plastics industry. and no longer one of america's richest men — donald trump drops off the forbes
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400 list of wealthiest people for the first time in 25 years. hell, welcome to the programme. frances haugen is a persuasive witness. today, the former facebook employee made her first public appearance before a congressional committee, after revealing that she was the source of thousands of pages of internal company research. in her testimony, ms haugen said the social media giant has for years misled the public about the extent to which its products harm children and stoke division, painting a picture of a company that has consistently prioritised enormous profit over its users�* safety. the documents, she said, provided to congress are only
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the tip of the iceberg. and in testimony, she encouraged the senators to demand more of the company's own internal research. facebook want you to believe that the problems we're talking about are unsolvable. they want you to believe in false choices. they want you to believe that you must choose between a facebook full of divisive and extreme content or losing one of the most important values our country was founded upon, free speech, that you must choose between public oversight of facebook�*s choices and your personal privacy, that to be able to share fun photos of your kids with old friends, you must also be inundated with anger—driven virality. they want you to believe that this is just part of the deal. i am here today to tell you that's not true. the senators have come a long way in their understanding of how social media algorithms work. in fact, this was one of the most in—depth discussions we have heard in congress about the effects of social media. one thing that appeared to unite republicans and democrats is the alleged damage instagram
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is causing to the mental health of young teenage girls. facebook says it does not agree with that characterisation. it is time, said the company, to create standard rules for the internet which are outdated and must be changed by elected officials. here's james clayton. it's ringing. eleanor and freya are both 1a, and like many teenagers, they're both on instagram. as a teenager, you're looking at these people, all these models, and, you know, influencers, they all are very skinny and they have, like, a perfect body. and when you're looking at that and then kind of comparing yourself to it, it's very...i think it could be really damaging. when you're feeling at your worst and then you go on instagram and you see things that are, like, targeted at you because you have looked at these kinds of things before, you see them, like, models, influencers, celebrities, things like that, and you are just like, "oh, iwill never be like that." eleanor and freya's concerns are in fact shared by one
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rather important company — facebook, which owns instagram. in fact, leaked internal research found that teens who struggle with mental health say that instagram makes it worse. the woman who leaked that report is called frances haugen, and today she gave evidence in washington. the documents that i have provided to congress prove that facebook has repeatedly misled the public about what its own research reveals about the safety of children. she concluded with a devastating message that facebook will continue to cause harm around the world. my fear is that without action, divisive and extremist behaviours we see today are only the beginning. what we saw in myanmar and are now seeing in ethiopia are only the opening chapters of a story so terrifying no—one wants to read the end of it. here in silicon valley, facebook has pushed back, saying that some of the research presented is misleading, and despite the fact that instagram concluded that it could be damaging
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for children's mental health, it also says that it can have a positive impact. both eleanor and freya say instagram is fun, that's why they're on it, but it can cause anxiety too. it's stressful because let's say you see someone post a photo and they're, like, with all your friends and you feel left out, but it's also fun to post a photo of you with your friends and you sometimes don't know someone is getting left out. facebook has said it has postponed a controversial project to create instagram for kids. but we now know that people within the company and some very important politicians in washington believe the company has put profit over the mental health of teenage girls. james clayton, bbc news, san francisco. let's bring in monika bickert, vice president of content policy at facebook. welcome to the programme. frances haugen said this week that you know
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it is easier to inspire people to anger than it is to other emotions, but if you change the algorithm to make it safer for people, the traffic dries up, people clicked on less ads, less money for facebook. are you putting profit over the safety of your users? we are you putting profit over the safety of your users?- are you putting profit over the safety of your users? we are not and we have not- — safety of your users? we are not and we have not. and _ safety of your users? we are not and we have not. and i _ safety of your users? we are not and we have not. and i want— safety of your users? we are not and we have not. and i want to _ safety of your users? we are not and we have not. and i want to clear- we have not. and i want to clear up some of the mischaracterizations that we have seen today, and also be clear that this was an employee who did not work on these issues and has mischaracterized a lot of these stolen documents. i do work on these issues, i have been with the company for nine years, my background is in child safety and as a criminal prosecutor, and the amount of thought and resources that this company has put into safety, including doing research to understand these issues, just underscores how much we do care about getting these very difficult issues right. 50 about getting these very difficult issues right-— about getting these very difficult issuesriuht. , , ,, , issues right. so if your business is child safety. _ issues right. so if your business is child safety. you _ issues right. so if your business is child safety, you will _ issues right. so if your business is child safety, you will be _ child safety, you will be concerned ijy child safety, you will be concerned by your own research, you're in
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research that she has leaked, that shows 32% of teenage girls surveyed said when they felt that about their bodies and a look at photos of other people on instagram, it made them feel worse —— felt bad about. i am feelworse -- felt bad about. i am concerned — feelworse -- felt bad about. i am concerned when _ feelworse -- felt bad about. i am concerned when any _ feelworse -- felt bad about. i am concerned when any team - feel worse —— felt bad about. i —n concerned when any team has a baddeck spirits on instagram, and i know i speak for the hundreds of people who work on child safety policies and enforcement and resources at our company, but i want to be clear that is not what these stolen documents say. what they say, instead, is that of the small number, and it is a small survey, but of the a0 instagram users who were teases that they struggle with mental health issues, both boys and girls, on all 12 issues, the majority of both boys and girls said instrument to make things better for that or did not have a material impact —— who were teens.
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that or did not have a material impact -- who were teens. here is another survey _ impact -- who were teens. here is another survey for _ impact -- who were teens. here is another survey for subcu _ impact -- who were teens. here is another survey for subcu research | another survey for subcu research found 26% said the site made to feel worse about their own life. there are plenty of other surveys we can point to. a quarter of children on this site say it makes them feel worse. �* ., ., , this site say it makes them feel worse. ~ . . , ., , worse. again, any time a single teen is havin: a worse. again, any time a single teen is having a bad _ worse. again, any time a single teen is having a bad experience, - worse. again, any time a single teen is having a bad experience, that - worse. again, any time a single teen is having a bad experience, that is i is having a bad experience, that is too much — that is why we ask these questions. those who are concerned about how we measure it safety or profit, one thing that shows that we are prioritising safety above profit is that we are asking these questions. if we did not care, we would not do this sort of research. you see, you give us these disturbances, i'm good if you another example, molly russell, the british teenager who tragically killed herself in 2017 after reading and viewing harmful comment don't act —— offer content on instrument. the
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dad met... he said he would ban this content on the flight from, which are priced in, because why would they not do that before young girl lost her life? but anyway, he was given that assurance and that sort of material is still on the site. look, molly russell's death is such a horrific tragedy, and my heart goes out to her family, a horrific tragedy, and my heart goes out to herfamily, and itjust underscores how important this issue is to get right. i want to correct the record there. we always did remove any content that encouraged or promoted self—harm, including graphic imagery. we also do, and this is based on the advice of stacy experts, is want to maintain space for teens to share with their feeling, because services like instagram can often be a vital source of support for teams that are struggling, as this survey shows a. and frances haugen endorse that today, she says she doesn't want to
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blow it up, but it can do a lot better. in internal study found... .6% of violence and excitement language. that is not getting your arms around it, that is a pretty poor performance. i arms around it, that is a pretty poor performance.— arms around it, that is a pretty poor performance. i think if you look the prevalence _ poor performance. i think if you look the prevalence of - poor performance. i think if you look the prevalence of the - poor performance. i think if you look the prevalence of the sort | poor performance. i think if you i look the prevalence of the sort of content on our services, you see we actually have gotten much better and are performing quite strongly — not perfectly, there is to work to do, but quite strong in these areas. hate speech, we have come to... it is now less than a 10th of a percent. is now less than a 10th of a percent-— is now less than a 10th of a ercent. , _, .g , percent. did you turn off the safety s stems percent. did you turn off the safety systems that _ percent. did you turn off the safety systems that you _ percent. did you turn off the safety systems that you developed - percent. did you turn off the safety systems that you developed before the us election? did you dissolve these civic integrity department that she worked in that was designed to review misinformation? did you turnit to review misinformation? did you turn it off after the election and
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the weeks running up to the insurrection? ida the weeks running up to the insurrection?— the weeks running up to the insurrection? ., ., , ., insurrection? no on both counts, and with the election _ insurrection? no on both counts, and with the election of _ insurrection? no on both counts, and with the election of macro _ is still... the civic integrity was not dissolved, it was added with the team that was working on covid and other... , , , team that was working on covid and other. . ._ it has i other... does it still exist? it has exoanded — other... does it still exist? it has exoanded in _ other... does it still exist? it has exoanded in a — other... does it still exist? it has expanded in a team _ other... does it still exist? it has expanded in a team with - other... does it still exist? it has expanded in a team with others, | expanded in a team with others, joined other teams come into a broader remit that has more employees, sharing their learnings on confronting these difficult issues. if you look at our track record over the past few years, we are spending more and more time and resources and engaging with researchers. talk about this one stolen document about instagram youth research— we have more than 1000 phd is, many of them working on research with outside researchers as well, and we put out or contributed in many research articles in the past year alone. why would we do
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that if we did not want to get it right? that if we did not want to get it ri . ht? , . ~ right? the interesting thing, nick clen said right? the interesting thing, nick clegg said last — right? the interesting thing, nick clegg said last week, _ right? the interesting thing, nick clegg said last week, it _ right? the interesting thing, nick clegg said last week, it gives - clegg said last week, it gives people false comfort to blame facebook and social media companies of the issues of political polarisations in the united states, but he knows because he was deputy prime ministers here, if you put a story on the front page of the newspaper, it implies that message, and we know from the fbi investigations that there were millions of readers logging onto this stuff after the election, they were being directed to this stuff, they were organising on facebook, so it is not true, is it, that facebook had no role in what happened at the capitol building onjanuary six? i want to be clear that what happened on generally sixth, that responsibility lies with those who broke the law and entered the capital building and those who incited them —— january six. i also want to be clear that in the months leading up to the election and continuing until well afterjanuary
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continuing until well after january the 6th, continuing until well afterjanuary the 6th, we were working with law enforcement, we were working with election officials, to identify and remove content that contributed to violence. and that includes removing militia groups, tens of thousands of pages and groups belonging to qanon and it includes moving any calls to arms. there were certain features, us about whether we turn anything off, technicalfeatures us about whether we turn anything off, technical features that we limited or put in place to make sure that we were airing on the side of not letting any enforcement mistakes happen with the election, that includes not allowing people to put a profile frame on their profile photo. that is the sort of thing people do to show their following a certain football team or stand with a relative of cancer. those things, we did turn back on, but the safety measures to keep our site save any policies we have to remove content that encourages or incites violence, those remained in place and we look for that content. just
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those remained in place and we look for that content.— for that content. just to be a final ruick for that content. just to be a final quick answer- _ for that content. just to be a final quick answer. do _ for that content. just to be a final quick answer. do you _ for that content. just to be a final quick answer. do you think - for that content. just to be a final quick answer. do you think you i for that content. just to be a final. quick answer. do you think you are capable of releasing your own website? we capable of releasing your own website? ~ ., �* , ., website? we don't it we should be makin: all website? we don't it we should be making all these _ website? we don't it we should be making all these decisions - website? we don't it we should be making all these decisions on - website? we don't it we should be making all these decisions on ourl making all these decisions on our own. it is the reason we have put this information out there, it is why we have an innocent —— infinite oversight board. it is also why we called for a galatian for two and a half years and works with the uk regulators to support their focus on making sure that companies have robust systems in place to keep their communities safe, we care about that, we know that we will continue to get better, and we are committed to doing so. monika bickert, very gratefulfor you taking our questions. thank you. listening across that interview was roger mcnamee, an early investor into facebook and the author of zucked. roger, what did you make of what you just heard? i roger, what did you make of what you 'ust heard? ., ., ,~' i. just heard? i would ask you, christian. — just heard? i would ask you, christian, and _ just heard? i would ask you, christian, and i— just heard? i would ask you, christian, and i would - just heard? i would ask you, christian, and i would ask i just heard? i would ask you, | christian, and i would ask all of our fevers, christian, and i would ask all of ourfevers, who do
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christian, and i would ask all of our fevers, who do you find more credible, frances haugen or monika bickert? she credible, frances haugen or monika bickert? ,, , credible, frances haugen or monika bickert? ,, bickert? she says facebook, monika bickert? she says facebook, monika itickert says. — bickert? she says facebook, monika bickert says, will _ bickert? she says facebook, monika bickert says, will not _ bickert? she says facebook, monika bickert says, will not change - bickert? she says facebook, monika bickert says, will not change on - bickert says, will not change on this set is forced to change. it was interesting that monika bickert almost agreed with her. and congress seems to know an awful lot more now about what these algorithms are than how they were. about what these algorithms are than how they were-— how they were. christian, here's the thin . how they were. christian, here's the thing- frances _ how they were. christian, here's the thing. frances haugen _ how they were. christian, here's the thing. frances haugen is _ how they were. christian, here's the l thing. frances haugen is courageous. she is authoritative. she is utterly convincing. in contrast to what monika bickert said, the documents she has released were created by the domain experts inside facebook, this is facebook looking at its own problems, coming to horrific conclusions, presenting these conclusions, presenting these conclusions to management and management saying, i am sorry, we are going to prioritise profits over the public good for stopped to be
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fair to facebook, the public good for stopped to be fairto facebook, in the public good for stopped to be fair to facebook, in america, corporations are encouraged to optimise every thing for shareholder value. it is like the old excuse, i am just following orders, right? but he could go point here is that what monika bickert was trying to do was to distract us from with the statistics not relevant to the question —— the key point here. i would describe it as gas letting for the core point here is that facebook has a level of impact on our lives, it is so staggeringly large, that disinformation implied by its internal algorithms has undermined internal algorithms has undermined in the united states covid responds to the point where we have the worst outcomes of any developed country in the world. their internal systems, facebook groups and the like, allowed stopped he still to organise an interaction post the problem with
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facebook is a connects everybody in the world, civilly dangerous ideas that are certainly in the united states permitted to exist by the first moments, which previously were locked into the corners of society, now have access to the whole world. —— stop the steal were. facebook is complicit in all of that. because the weight its business model works and prioritising profit, and the issue here is not facebook breaking the law, it is the things permitted in the united states that should not be permitted. fissia —— and you could also argue facebook not the on the company doing. mar; —— and you could also argue facebook not the on the company doing. £41643er not the on the company doing. may i follow-up on — not the on the company doing. may i follow-up on that? _ not the on the company doing. may i follow-up on that? because - not the on the company doing. i— i follow—up on that? because you are correct. that is the key point. congress no longer has an excuse for delay, and to think that is really
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striking was to see democrats and republicans actively talking to each other about new legislation they might pass stop if you watch us senate, they don't pass legislation, so the notion of both sides working together is astonishing. that is how bad that is. but i would implore this to not be looked at as a facebook only problem. this notion of using surveillance to monitor everything they do, every digital foot print these behind, pricking your behaviour but also steering your behaviour, that model — began with google, it went to facebook, then amazon and microsoft — but now it is being used by companies across the entire economy, and i believe the congress needs to look at the example of the food and drug act of 1906 and the environmental acts of
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the 1960s and 70s, because in those cases, food production in the us before 1906 was really dangerous, it hurt people — same with pharmaceuticals — and then chemicals in the 50s were dumping toxic waste... , . . , ., in the 50s were dumping toxic waste... , . . , . ., waste... there is certainly a model there. waste... there is certainly a model there- what _ waste... there is certainly a model there. what concerned _ waste... there is certainly a model there. what concerned me - waste... there is certainly a model there. what concerned me about i waste... there is certainly a model i there. what concerned me about the enormous outage yesterday is that we got stories from all around the world, from millions of people suddenly taken off—line, because facebook, instagram, whatsapp, they all work for profit on the same service. and that shines a light on the enormous monopoly these companies have on our everyday life, just on how we can indicate but how we order a taxi order pizza. in the southern hemisphere, they are used much more rightly than we use in the north, so here's my question. you say it is up to congress to break up those monopolies and to regulate. what about every other government? what about every other government? what about every other government? what about the uk government? do we
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just say, until congress makes dissent about this, there is nothing we do? ,, dissent about this, there is nothing wedo? ,, , we do? quite the opposite. i believe every country _ we do? quite the opposite. i believe every country in _ we do? quite the opposite. i believe every country in the _ we do? quite the opposite. i believe every country in the rotor _ we do? quite the opposite. i believe every country in the rotor look - we do? quite the opposite. i believe every country in the rotor look at - every country in the rotor look at its own values and do what he is right. and i think the uk should have its own laws, the european union should have its own laws, asia, south america, everywhere, everywhere need to do it, and the critical point is we do not need a core knitted response here. every country should pick the thing that bothers them most, the way australia did with their news organisations and focus on that. they took them off—line for five days and gotten to shift? i they took them off-line for five days and gotten to shift? i think there are three _ days and gotten to shift? i think there are three category - days and gotten to shift? i think there are three category is - days and gotten to shift? i think there are three category is a - there are three category is a regulation we need, and it can happen anywhere around the world. first is safety for some i don't believe the tech industry has incentives to make safe products. this is notjust about the internet platforms. think about artificial intelligence in the way it is misused in the lending world or in job applications, in protective policing. 0r bias. thing about
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facial recognition. 0r smart devices that track you everywhere. we need to have safety. i would like to see something like a food and drug administration that has to you every single year you are safe, and if you are not safe, the penalties are staggering. we have to change things. the second thing, i believe this business model, surveillance capitalism, where you are literally taking away the right of personal autonomy for every single human being, that is no more no really morally valid then... at a minimum, you need to and use of intimate stuff, health information, financial information, location, things like that. lastly, antitrust. we need to recognise the tony first century is not industrial, it is data, 72 thing about how data is used and how monopolies work, and facebook is a
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perfect example. monopolies work, and facebook is a perfect example-— perfect example. roger of i have to wra it perfect example. roger of i have to wrap it there- _ perfect example. roger of i have to wrap it there- i— perfect example. roger of i have to wrap it there. i would _ perfect example. roger of i have to wrap it there. i would love - perfect example. roger of i have to wrap it there. i would love to - perfect example. roger of i have to wrap it there. i would love to talk. wrap it there. i would love to talk to you more, but take you for coming on the programme.— on the programme. thank you for havin: on the programme. thank you for having the — on the programme. thank you for having the ansah _ on the programme. thank you for having the ansah good _ on the programme. thank you for having the ansah good luck. - we have become almost inured to the industrial scale of sexual abuse that's taken place in the catholic church. almost. but the figures revealed today by an inquiry in france, spanning 70 years of abuse, is nothing short of horrendous. since 1950, some 216,000 children have been victims of abuse in france, most of them young boys. and that might not be the true figure. the report suggests the real number could be in excess of 330,000 when taking into account the abuses that committed by lay members of the church, such as teachers at catholic schools. the number of abusers is just as shocking. the commission found evidence of at least 3,000 individual abusers, and most of those were priests — people entrusted with the care of young innocent children.
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xavier le normand, reporter for the french—based catholic publication la croix, joins me now. it is extraordinary, the figures we're talking about here. how did we not know this was endemic in the catholic church in france? how was it kept a secret for so long? first of all i it kept a secret for so long? first of all i think— it kept a secret for so long? first of all i think we _ it kept a secret for so long? first of all i think we knew it - it kept a secret for so long? f “st of all i think we knew it was and amick, we did not know so far, it was the audi of the figures. —— gravity. as you havejust was the audi of the figures. —— gravity. as you have just said, was the audi of the figures. —— gravity. as you havejust said, it is a third of a million cases over the past 70 years. how did we not know? that's what we have to discover for the future weeks. hour discover for the future weeks. how did the victims — discover for the future weeks. how did the victims react _ discover for the future weeks. how did the victims react today? the i did the victims react today? the victims reacted, _ did the victims react today? iie: victims reacted, to the did the victims react today? "ii2 victims reacted, to the bishops, judy catholic church, shame, shame on you. —— to the catholic church. that is the first reaction. the
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second is that, now, you have to act. there is no way you can continue the same way. you have to change attitude. that is the time now to change. fin change attitude. that is the time now to change.— change attitude. that is the time now to change. on those attitudes. we have had _ now to change. on those attitudes. we have had similar— now to change. on those attitudes. we have had similar stories - now to change. on those attitudes. we have had similar stories in - we have had similar stories in belgium, in ireland, wherever the church has looked the piece has been stunning. do you think, clearly, there is a zero tolerance attitude from the vatican — we can say that, at least — but do you think they have got the arms are on the bigger problem, why so many priests in the church were abusing young children? i think it is still something we need to discover, because one of the most striking thing of the study is that it most striking thing of the study is thatitis most striking thing of the study is that it is more prevalent in the catholic church than in other groups like schools and sports clubs, so we need to discover that and we need to discover the real reasons to tackle them afterwards. find discover the real reasons to tackle them afterwards.— discover the real reasons to tackle them afterwards.
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—— does not come down to a ban on same—sex marriage? the fact that there is no acceptance within the vatican, at least, that priest should be able to marry? that vatican, at least, that priest should be able to marry? that is a ruestion should be able to marry? that is a question that _ should be able to marry? that is a question that will _ should be able to marry? that is a question that will be _ should be able to marry? that is a question that will be needed - should be able to marry? that is a question that will be needed to i question that will be needed to ask, but i am not... the french report is it is not links to celibacy or sexuality, because for example you have a granddad that is a paedophile to his granddaughter, it is not about being straight or gay, he's a who was a paedophile, nothing about being straight or gay, so i don't think same—sex marriage is directly related. it is not a solution. indeed so. xavier le normand, thank you so much for coming on the programme, extraordinary figures and that in that report from france. 20
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barnett coming up. we will talk plastics. we will also hear from the new foreign secretary, liz truss. hello there. it's been a windy day today, but it's the rain that's been causing most of the disruption. we started with an inch of rain falling in an hour in the early hours of this morning in london, hence the scenes of flooding here. it's been raining pretty much all day across much of northern england. we've had some flooding, for example, here in the northeast of england. it's been very wet in eastern scotland too. further west, the showers that we have seen here will be fading away overnight, skies will clear. elsewhere, the rain slowly eases away for much of scotland, continue to see some rain for eastern england. it's going to be very windy around those north sea coasts as well. lighter winds further west, and it will be quite chilly by the end of the night across parts of northern ireland and also scotland. let's set the scene on tomorrow's weather, and the wet and windy
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weather courtesy of that low—pressure is moving away. the next weather system coming in from the atlantic in between a slice of dry weather and some sunshine. it's going to be a windy start, though, for eastern parts of england tomorrow. the rain tends to move away. the cloud a little more reluctant to break up. but many places will see some sunshine for a while. western areas, though, clouding over more and more. some rain coming in, especially across northern ireland in the afternoon. but ahead of that, something a little bit warmer than today across parts of england and wales. things, however, will get warmer as still as we head further into the week — unusually warm, really, for this time of the year. and that is because if we trace our winds all the way back down towards the south to the tropics, this is where our air is coming from. that's bringing the warmth through thursday and friday, bringing in a lot of cloud perhaps, and we still have some weather fronts on the scene across the northwest of the uk threatening some thicker cloud and some outbreaks of rain. and that's mainly going to be affecting scotland, the west of scotland, perhaps some northern and western parts of northern ireland. even for england and wales, though, it still looks quite cloudy, a bit of dampness and drizzle around
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some western coasts and hills, brighter towards the east. but even with that cloud, because the air has come from a long way south, it's warm, temperatures could make 19—20 celsius in belfast and newcastle. moving into friday, the winds are lighter for england and wales. that could lead to some fog in the morning across the midlands towards the southeast lifting and some sunshine coming through. the main rain band shuffles up towards the far northwest, so some sunshine across parts of scotland and northern ireland. temperatures widely18—21 celsius before it cools down from the north through the weekend.
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this is bbc news with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. a facebook whistle blower tells a us senate committee the tech giant put its profits first even though it knew of the harm it could inflict on children and democracy. speaking to this programme a senior executive pushed back against those claims. the amount of thought and resources that this company has put into safety, including doing research to understand these issues, just underscores how much we do care about getting these very difficult issues right. the new british foreign secretary weighs in on the us uk relationship calling it "special but not exclusive". plus we'll speak to the democratic congressman who thinks a us tax on single use plastics is the way to go. and no longer one of america richest men donald trump drops off
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the forbes a00 list of wealthiest people, for first time in 25 years. britain's new foreign secretary, liz truss, has been discussing today what she sees as britain's priorities in a post brexit landscape. at a packed event on the sidelines of the annual conservative conference ms truss said she was finding her feet in the new role. though she admitted it has been a baptism of fire, no sooner had she been appointed she was on her way to new york to a un general assembly. so you wake up as trade secretary connie go to bed as foreign secretary, and the next day you connie go to bed as foreign secretary, and the next day you are a foreign secretary, how do you learn all of that stuff so quickly? just the mechanics of it. it's one
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of the great things about the british system, and other systems they have weeks of change over periods they have weeks of change over eriod ., they have weeks of change over eriod . ., , ., , periods hand over periods in the uk ou aet periods hand over periods in the uk you get appointed _ periods hand over periods in the uk you get appointed and _ periods hand over periods in the uk you get appointed and you - periods hand over periods in the uk you get appointed and you don't - you get appointed and you don't generally go back to your previous department to go straight to the new department to go straight to the new department and you start in the job. so it can _ department and you start in the job. so it can he — department and you start in the job. so it can be about 20 minutes between — so it can be about 20 minutes between being appointed and starting the joh _ between being appointed and starting the job. which is what i call efficient _ the chair asking the questions, who many of you will recognise, was professor anand menon, a regular on this programme, the director of the thinktank uk in a changing europe. so what did he make of that answer? i had a chat with him earlier, take a listen. is it conducive to good politics to the parachute ministry into a job and fight her the next minute i the un general assembly?— and fight her the next minute i the un general assembly? well, i think the oint un general assembly? well, i think the point that _ un general assembly? well, i think the point that she _ un general assembly? well, i think the point that she made _ un general assembly? well, i think the point that she made today - un general assembly? well, i thinkj the point that she made today apart from anything else is if you have a choice between doing it this way, which is very quick and doing what the germans are doing and waiting months to get a government in place
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then you can see advantages to our system, but it must be a stressful change for ministers to go from one place to the next in 20 minutes. it with a wide—ranging discussion. let's talk about the tilt towards the pacific region first about. she was in charge of that and her former role as secretary of state for trade and industry, international trade, role as secretary of state for trade and industry, internationaltrade, i should say, how does she see that going? i should say, how does she see that auoin ? ~ should say, how does she see that hoin ? ~' , . should say, how does she see that hoin ? ~ , . . ., should say, how does she see that uroin? ~' , . ., going? i think the price point to make is that — going? i think the price point to make is that tilt _ going? i think the price point to make is that tilt towards - going? i think the price point to make is that tilt towards the i going? i think the price point to i make is that tilt towards the indo pacific is not purely about trade. i don't think it's primarily about trade. it's about security and trade is part of that. i think she, she's obviously quite bland because we have had this deal between the us, the uk and australia, which cements our presence in the region and makes us a partner australia in the region. they have been trade talks going on with countries in the region, so i think actually she is very upbeat about it. we have had that these governments and remember what reunites all these governments is a shared perception that china is
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a threat and we need to go and get all the friends that we can. that makes life a lot easier for her if she goes out there and says can we be your friend?— be your friend? because of that deal she has bridge _ be your friend? because of that deal she has bridge building _ be your friend? because of that deal she has bridge building to _ be your friend? because of that deal she has bridge building to do with i she has bridge building to do with europe and notably the french. how does she see that going post brexit? well, it is striking that in her speech, she doesn't mention the eu and she doesn't tend to talk about european states. you can see that thatis european states. you can see that that is political. this government wants to focus on its global rather than european ambitions, but she did admit and than european ambitions, but she did admitand quite than european ambitions, but she did admit and quite rightly so that we are going to have to keep working with our european partners and ultimately we will have to work with the french as well because they are nearest neighbours. 0ut the french as well because they are nearest neighbours. out of all the european states, the french are the most similar to us in terms of willingness to deploy military force and take security issues seriously stop lee seem to have consciously steered clear of mentioning individual states and the euro ean mentioning individual states and the european union _ mentioning individual states and the european union in _ mentioning individual states and the european union in that _ mentioning individual states and the european union in that list. - mentioning individual states and the european union in that list. was - european union in that list. was that deliberate and if so, why four i did mention that g7, which does
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have _ i did mention that g7, which does have the — i did mention that g7, which does have the european _ i did mention that g7, which does have the european union- i did mention that g7, which does have the european union in- i did mention that g7, which does have the european union in it - i did mention that g7, which doesj have the european union in it and france, _ have the european union in it and france, italy— have the european union in it and france, italy and _ have the european union in it and france, italy and germany. - have the european union in it and france, italy and germany. i- have the european union in it and france, italy and germany. i also| france, italy and germany. i also mentioned — france, italy and germany. i also mentioned the _ france, italy and germany. i also mentioned the baltics _ france, italy and germany. i also mentioned the baltics three - france, italy and germany. i also mentioned the baltics three andl france, italy and germany. i also - mentioned the baltics three and that there is— mentioned the baltics three and that there is a _ mentioned the baltics three and that there is a grab— mentioned the baltics three and that there is a grab for— mentioned the baltics three and that there is a grab for as _ mentioned the baltics three and that there is a grab for as well _ mentioned the baltics three and that there is a grab for as well stop - there is a grab for as well stop people — there is a grab for as well stop people shouldn't _ there is a grab for as well stop people shouldn't read - there is a grab for as well stop people shouldn't read slate i people shouldn't read slate into this? _ people shouldn't read slate into this? absolutely _ people shouldn't read slate into this? absolutely not _ people shouldn't read slate into this? absolutely not ok. - the elephant in the room, of choruses on monday, lord frost who oversees the brexit portfolio, he has that the eu has until early november to renegotiate the northern ireland protocol or the uk will trickle order statement article 16. that wasn't received well in brussels. do you think she is wary of that and sees that on the short term horizon? i of that and sees that on the short term horizon?— term horizon? i think it's more rimal term horizon? i think it's more primal and _ term horizon? i think it's more primal and political _ term horizon? i think it's more primal and political than - term horizon? i think it's more primal and political than that. l term horizon? i think it's more - primal and political than that. this is the conservative party conference, and at the conservative party conference these days, a politician with ambition doesn't go in and start saying nice things about the european union. so i think it was as simple as that. yes, the whole context around the protocol
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and the standoff between the uk and the eu over x, but i think even without that, then someone like liz truss is not going to go in and say we need to work very closely with the eu because one of the points of global brightness to stress the fact that we are not limited to our neighbourhoods.— that we are not limited to our neighbourhoods. that we are not limited to our neiuhbourhoods. ., ., , , neighbourhoods. how does she come i will tell ou neighbourhoods. how does she come i will tell you what, _ neighbourhoods. how does she come i will tell you what, before _ neighbourhoods. how does she come i will tell you what, before asking - will tell you what, before asking how she sees the us special relationship, let's have a listen to what she says immediately tell me what she says immediately tell me what you thought off the back. stare what you thought off the back. are ou a fan what you thought off the back. are you a fan of _ what you thought off the back. are you a fan of the phrase special relationship? i you a fan of the phrase special relationship?— relationship? ithink... it's a bit... relationship? ithink... it's a bit--- you— relationship? ithink... it's a bit... you know, _ relationship? ithink... it's a bit... you know, because i. relationship? i think... it's a| bit... you know, because i do relationship? i think... it's a - bit... you know, because i do love the united — bit... you know, because i do love the united states. _ bit... you know, because i do love the united states. i— bit... you know, because i do love the united states. ithink- bit... you know, because i do love the united states. i think it's - bit... you know, because i do love the united states. i think it's a - the united states. i think it's a fabulous — the united states. i think it's a fabulous country— the united states. i think it's a fabulous country and _ the united states. i think it's a fabulous country and very, - the united states. i think it's a i fabulous country and very, close ally of— fabulous country and very, close ally of the — fabulous country and very, close ally of the united _ fabulous country and very, close ally of the united kingdom. - fabulous country and very, close ally of the united kingdom. wel fabulous country and very, close - ally of the united kingdom. we have other close _ ally of the united kingdom. we have other close allies— ally of the united kingdom. we have other close allies as _ ally of the united kingdom. we have other close allies as well. _ other close allies as well. australia _ other close allies as well. australia are _ other close allies as well. australia are becoming i other close allies as well. - australia are becoming increasingly close ally— australia are becoming increasingly close ally of — australia are becoming increasingly close ally of ours. _ australia are becoming increasingly close ally of ours. we _ australia are becoming increasingly close ally of ours. we have - close ally of ours. we have important _ close ally of ours. we have important relationships- close ally of ours. we have . important relationships across europe, — important relationships across europe. you _ important relationships across europe, you know, _ important relationships across europe, you know, we - important relationships across europe, you know, we have i important relationships across| europe, you know, we have an important _ europe, you know, we have an important relationship - europe, you know, we have an important relationship with - europe, you know, we have an. important relationship with india. so it is— important relationship with india. so it is special— important relationship with india. so it is special but— important relationship with india. so it is special but not—
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important relationship with india. so it is special but not exclusive. | so it is special but not exclusive. that _ so it is special but not exclusive. that was — so it is special but not exclusive. that was a — so it is special but not exclusive. that was a tad _ so it is special but not exclusive. that was a tad different. - so it is special but not exclusive. that was a tad different.- that was a tad different. yes, absolutely. — that was a tad different. yes, absolutely, that's _ that was a tad different. yes, absolutely, that's a _ that was a tad different. yes, absolutely, that's a change i that was a tad different. yes, absolutely, that's a change in| that was a tad different. i2: absolutely, that's a change in tone and the moment about our relationship the united states clearly it matters, she is clear about the fact that it matters command if you read the integrated review that the government put out a few months ago, it's clear that the us remains a crucial ally. but the times from the past when prime minister is used to go out of their way to stress the fact that this is a special relationship, the united states means more to us than any other partner. those days seem to be gone and the government genuinely seems to be intent on going out and forging partnerships at the number of countries, and as she said, we are not going to have exclusive relationships with anyone. we will make alliances around the world. so manyjobs for him these days. good to have them back on the programme. things are going from bad to worse for donald trump. in november he lost the election tojoe biden, after which he was impeached for a second time and now, for the first time in 25 years he's fallen off forbes's list of america's richest people. a list he certainly cares about.
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with an estimated fortune of $2.5 billion, the former president has missed out on forbes a00 list by $a00 million dollars. dan alexander is a senior editor at forbes, covering donald trump's business and joins us now. you have been following the zeros, there are a few missing to get him onto the list. he does care about this, he does refer to it. he sure does. this, he does refer to it. he sure does- we _ this, he does refer to it. he sure does. we know _ this, he does refer to it. he sure does. we know that _ this, he does refer to it. he sure does. we know that he - this, he does refer to it. he sure does. we know that he cares - this, he does refer to it. he sure i does. we know that he cares about this, he does refer to it. he sure - does. we know that he cares about it because back in the 1980s he lied in order to get on it, but then he actually stayed on it and deserve to be in it for a while. he would spend in eden ordinate amount of time with us every year talking about his assets including while he was running for president. in 2015, he put a hold the phones to our block on his calendar to walk to the value of each and every aspect with forbes reporters. so we know he cares a lot about this and he's probably not happy about today's news. you have
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re happy about today's news. you have pretty much — happy about today's news. you have pretty much put _ happy about today's news. you have pretty much put your _ happy about today's news. you have pretty much put your finger - happy about today's news. you have pretty much put your finger but - happy about today's news. you have pretty much put your finger but i - pretty much put your finger but i was going to ask you. his wealth, what he had and of course where it was going has always been pretty opaque. we know that because they've been trying to find out about it for the last four years. was he accurately represented on this list, do you think? filth. accurately represented on this list, do you think?— do you think? oh, for sure. his network hasn't _ do you think? oh, for sure. his network hasn't changed - do you think? oh, for sure. his network hasn't changed in - do you think? oh, for sure. his network hasn't changed in the l do you think? oh, for sure. his i network hasn't changed in the last year. we had about two and half billion dollars last year. we have met two and half billion dollars this year. what's changed is that everyone else's fortunes have shot up, cobit has actually been great for a lot of billionaires, particularly ones in crypto currencies with technology, many billionaires and health care have done really well. the problem for donald trump is that he is stuck with a bunch of new york city real estate aspects when new york city office buildings are emptying out, people aren't going into the office, setting out as many tourists are coming to the united states or to new york. and he owns a lot of shopping retail space on fifth avenue in there aren't a lot of people walking through those stories. all that is bad news for
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donald trump. that means his fortune has stayed relatively flat while everyone else has zoomed past them. but, yes, he absolutely did deserve to be on the list for years. abate but, yes, he absolutely did deserve to be on the list for years.— to be on the list for years. are you able to ascertain _ to be on the list for years. are you able to ascertain whether - to be on the list for years. are you able to ascertain whether his - to be on the list for years. are you able to ascertain whether his four| able to ascertain whether his four years of president has been good for his bottom line, his finances, does he need power to revitalise his business interest? 0r he need power to revitalise his business interest? or is it damaging to the brand?— to the brand? there is no question that i was to the brand? there is no question that i was a _ to the brand? there is no question that i was a huge _ to the brand? there is no question that i was a huge problem - to the brand? there is no question that i was a huge problem for- to the brand? there is no question that i was a huge problem for his i that i was a huge problem for his business that he decided to run for president, and that's really unfolded over time. the first place, he had a lot of branding businesses, so companies that did licensing partnership set him on products and on different real estate ventures, well, if you are going to offend half of the people who might be buying your products whether it be real estate, cologne, shoes, whatever, guess what, those companies are not going to want to pay to do a licensing deal with that sort of brand. so he lost those people right off the bat, but then he starts losing people at his hotels, yes, there are trump fans
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went to go to his hotels, but remember not all of you knighted states is trump stan, so there are a lot of people who simply refused to go to those hotels. if you're hosting to my for example, a big group event, you are not going to host it at a trump place because you don't want to offend half of the people who you are going to be inviting. so that really took a toll on him. there were market factors. the most layer which has been that pandemic and all of the havoc that it's wreaked on different parts of his empire. it's wreaked on different parts of his empire-— it's wreaked on different parts of hisemire. ., ., , , . ,, his empire. dan from forbes, thank ou ve his empire. dan from forbes, thank you very much _ his empire. dan from forbes, thank you very much indeed. _ his empire. dan from forbes, thank you very much indeed. thank- his empire. dan from forbes, thank you very much indeed. thank you. i let's look at some of the day's other news. a new report says climate change is seriously degrading the world's coral reefs, with 1a% having been wiped out between 2009 and 2018. in the new study, reefs in the arabian gulf, off australia and the eastern pacific are said to be among the worst hit. taiwan has urged beijing to stop "irresponsible provocative actions" after a record number of chinese warplanes entered its air defence zone. almost 150 aircraft hae entered taiwan's defence zone in total. taiwan's president warned
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of catastrophic consequences for democracy in asia if the island were to fall to china beijing has blamed rising tension on the presence of us and allied warships. and more details are coming out about the massive oil spill off the coast of california, a story we brought you yesterday. us investigators are looking into whether a ship's anchor may have struck a pipeline on the ocean floor, causing it to break and spill over half a million litres of crude oil. still to come, we will speak to the us senator who wants to tax plastics to stop the build—up of waste in our oceans. the inquests have open into the depths of four — ——the inquests have opened into the deaths of a young gay men who were all murdered by the serial killer stephen port. the jury was told the inquests
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will focus on whether police "missed opportunities" to stop him sooner. the victims were all given fatal overdoses of the drug, ghb by port who was jailed for life in 2016. here's our home affairs correspondent, daniel sandford. four young gay men all found dead within 15 months of each other in the london suburb of barking. two were found in this churchyard and onejust outside it, all four were in their 20s and all were murdered with the date rape drug ghb. their killer, stephen port, will die in prison as a result of his crimes. today the men's families came to their inquests to make statements commemorating their relatives and to look for an answer to a key question — could some of the deaths have been prevented? anthony walgate's mother, sarah, told thejury he had moved from hull to london to study fashion. she said they spoke several times a week until he was murdered. in her statement, daniel whitworth's grandmother barbara said...
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gabriel kovari was from slovakia. his brother told the court he was a smart, talented, kind person who made the mistake of trusting people too much, and that cost him his life. jack taylor was a forklift driver who was hoping to become a police officer. his sisterjenny taylor said... the body of the first young man, anthony walgate, was found his sisterjenny taylor said... the body of the first young man, anthony walgate, was found the jury heard about this fake suicide note that was actually written by the serial killer, and we're told they would be looking at the competence and adequacy of the metropolitan police investigations. daniel sandford, bbc news, barking. plastic is everywhere. and every year, eight million tonnes of it flows into our ocean. in the us, only about 9% of plastic waste is recycled.
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the rest piles up, or it gets burned, which produces greenhouse gas emissions. another problem, which undermines the recycling effort, is that it is often cheaper to buy "virgin" plastics than use recycled materials. and so last week, democrats proposed a first nationwide levy. it would tax that virgin plastic at 20 cents per pound to try and encourge the industry to reuse plastic already in the system. i'm joined now by senator sheldon whitehouse from connecticut, who is behind the proposed reduce act. welcome to the programme. good to have you back. you know, i was thinking today when i was reading the article... i thinking today when i was reading the article. . .— the article... i am from rhode island. the article. .. i am from rhode island- i— the article... i am from rhode island. i thought _ the article... i am from rhode island. i thought that, - the article... i am from rhode island. i thought that, and - the article... i am from rhode island. i thought that, and a l the article... i am from rhode l island. i thought that, and a red connecticut. _ island. i thought that, and a red connecticut, i've _ island. i thought that, and a red connecticut, i've had _ island. i thought that, and a red connecticut, i've had you - island. i thought that, and a red connecticut, i've had you on - island. i thought that, and a red i connecticut, i've had you on times, i know full well you are from rhode island. i apologise, i know full well you are from rhode island. iapologise, thank i know full well you are from rhode island. i apologise, thank you for putting the record straight. we're looking for technological answers
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for this, how to clear up the oceans. when i read this morning's papers, it struck me that a pretty pragmatic solution that all governments could follow is to tax virgin plastic. so why aren't more governments doing it?— virgin plastic. so why aren't more governments doing it? welcome i hope we will set an — governments doing it? welcome i hope we will set an example _ governments doing it? welcome i hope we will set an example for _ governments doing it? welcome i hope we will set an example for that - governments doing it? welcome i hope we will set an example for that to - we will set an example for that to happen, as you know, secretary carrie, when he was secretary of state started the international our oceans conference, where international governments do come together and plan how they are going together and plan how they are going to protect the ocean against this, and this can be a good thing for the united states to be able to take to the next hour oceans conference. it also bears a little bit on glasgow and that this has a fairly significant climate component to it as well, given the interest on oceans medicine glasgow, i think we would probably be be the better off for the next our oceans conference. if you get this spell through, and i want to talk in a section about the fight you're having with the
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plastics industry, but what would you use the money for?- plastics industry, but what would you use the money for? well, we wed dedicated to — you use the money for? well, we wed dedicated to improving _ you use the money for? well, we wed dedicated to improving recycling. - dedicated to improving recycling. part of the problem here is that when you look at the single use disposable plastic beds that make—up so much of the waste that ends up in our rivers and oceans, if you look at the supply chain for that, less than 2% is actually recycled plastic. so the plastics industry has done a patheticjob of trying to bring recycled plastic into its product stream and then, as he said, once you have taken your plastic notes and moved it to that blue band and dedicated it to the recycling process, less than 10% of that actually ends up getting recycled. so that's another pathetic failure. so that's another pathetic failure. so they have to improve, and part of the problem i think is levelling the playing field so there isn't that big financial advantage that you
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describe for virgin plastic, for this as opposed to recycling. companies will always choose the cheaper alternative, so you have to adjust that so that they are making decisions on a fairplay basis. the industry says _ decisions on a fairplay basis. the industry says that it's doing enough about the nudge from contracts. it's investing in advanced recycling technologies because most of their major customers, their corporate customers demand sustainable materials now because their consumers demand it. igrate materials now because their consumers demand it. we know that can't be true — consumers demand it. we know that can't be true because _ consumers demand it. we know that can't be true because there - consumers demand it. we know that can't be true because there is - consumers demand it. we know that can't be true because there is still i can't be true because there is still at 2%. there are still below 10% for actually using the plastic waste that we put in our bands. 90% of that we put in our bands. 90% of thatjust that we put in our bands. 90% of that just gets thrown that we put in our bands. 90% of thatjust gets thrown into the landfill are shipped off to another country where it ends up in their oceans are past, the numbers prove that we are past the point of relying unplanned assertions by the plastics industry about what a good job it is doing. in fact, by every metric, it's doing a horriblejob, and i am saying that as a senator
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who has really tried to work with them to reduce the load of ocean plastics, but at some point, the numbers become compelling. just one other issue. — numbers become compelling. just one other issue, because _ numbers become compelling. just one other issue, because it's _ numbers become compelling. just one other issue, because it's always - numbers become compelling. just one other issue, because it's always a - other issue, because it's always a complex thing when we talk about cutting emissions and cutting including things like plastic, but let's say for instance that consumers then shift to glass and paper, some would say well that's much less damaging to the environment because it breaks down, but they are heavier, so they produce more fossil fuels than plastic does. produce more fossil fuels than plastic does-— produce more fossil fuels than l plastic does._ d plastic does. not necessarily. d think that is — plastic does. not necessarily. d think that is the _ plastic does. not necessarily. d think that is the case? - plastic does. not necessarily. d think that is the case? no, - plastic does. not necessarily. d think that is the case? no, i i plastic does. not necessarily. d i think that is the case? no, i don't, and i think that is the case? no, i don't, and i haven't— think that is the case? no, i don't, and i haven't seen _ think that is the case? no, i don't, and i haven't seen anything - think that is the case? no, i don't, and i haven't seen anything that i and i haven't seen anything that says that is the case by way of, you know, peer—reviewed or a solid economic analysis. i'm afraid that's the kind of industry talking point that leaks its way into these conversations, like a pollutant leaks its way into a river. it's not real. i don't believe. tbs, leaks its way into a river. it's not real. i don't believe.— real. i don't believe. a final one on this issue. _ real. i don't believe. a final one on this issue. i— real. i don't believe. a final one on this issue. i looked - real. i don't believe. a final one on this issue. i looked at - real. i don't believe. a final one on this issue. i looked at your i on this issue. i looked at your twitter feed today, which on this issue. i looked at your twitterfeed today, which is on this issue. i looked at your twitter feed today, which is why i know you are from rhode island, and
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it said on there that you are in a real battle with the plastic industry, and we know that the lobbying in washington is something. are you coming under a lot of pressure?— are you coming under a lot of pressure? are you coming under a lot of ressure? ~ , , . , pressure? well, they did put a big shiny piece _ pressure? well, they did put a big shiny piece of— pressure? well, they did put a big shiny piece of mail _ pressure? well, they did put a big shiny piece of mail on _ pressure? well, they did put a big shiny piece of mail on the - pressure? well, they did put a big shiny piece of mail on the front i pressure? well, they did put a big shiny piece of mail on the front of| shiny piece of mail on the front of every single washington post so that everybody in the area saw it that made a whole bunch of false claims about my legislation, so to 1 , made a whole bunch of false claims about my legislation, so to1 , yes, they are applying a lot of pressure, and on the other hand, when they are saying false things about legislation, people who are in the now about what the legislation actually does don't get convinced by that kind of stuff, so i think that was a bit of a, you know, flash bang misfire that didn't really do any harm to my effort to try to remedy this problem. igrate harm to my effort to try to remedy this problem-— this problem. we wish you the best of luck with — this problem. we wish you the best of luck with that. _ this problem. we wish you the best of luck with that. i _ this problem. we wish you the best of luck with that. i want _ this problem. we wish you the best of luck with that. i want to - this problem. we wish you the best of luck with that. i want to talk - this problem. we wish you the best of luck with that. i want to talk to l of luck with that. i want to talk to about another issue which we should all be paying attention to, and that
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of course is the fight where you sit in the senate over the debt. joe biden said on friday there is a media are about to crash into the us economy, and that has implications for all of us around the world. what are you doing to fix it?— are you doing to fix it? well, the minority leader _ are you doing to fix it? well, the minority leader and _ are you doing to fix it? well, the minority leader and that - are you doing to fix it? well, the minority leader and that the - are you doing to fix it? well, the - minority leader and that the senate, mitch mcconnell has had two mutually inconsistent things, one, he has said that we need to pass the debt limit and this has to be gone by the democrats alone. and then he has said and we republicans are going to filibuster it so that they need ten republicans so that they can't pass it with democrats alone. i think at some point the pressure from the markets or a simple determination by our caucus tojust get markets or a simple determination by our caucus to just get this done is going to break through that bit of obstacle by mitch mcconnell. iie
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going to break through that bit of obstacle by mitch mcconnell. he has been re obstacle by mitch mcconnell. he has been pretty clear _ obstacle by mitch mcconnell. he has been pretty clear since _ obstacle by mitch mcconnell. he has been pretty clear since july - obstacle by mitch mcconnell. he has been pretty clear since july that - obstacle by mitch mcconnell. he has been pretty clear since july that he i been pretty clear sincejuly that he and the senators are not going to vote to lift the debt limit, and he is pretty set. vote to lift the debt limit, and he is pretty set-— vote to lift the debt limit, and he is pretty set. and they don't have to, all they _ is pretty set. and they don't have to, all they have _ is pretty set. and they don't have to, all they have to _ is pretty set. and they don't have to, all they have to do _ is pretty set. and they don't have to, all they have to do is - is pretty set. and they don't have to, all they have to do is do - to, all they have to do is do what they did before, let us vote to lift it, but holds back the threat of a filibuster that requires us to break through and get 60 votes. they can go to the floor right now and have a nice boat in which only the democrats vote to lift the debt limit, and this is done, and the world economy is safe, the american economy is safe, this threat disappears. economy is safe, this threat disappears-— economy is safe, this threat disauears. , disappears. but you could use... it's an entirely _ disappears. but you could use... it's an entirely manufactured - disappears. but you could use... i it's an entirely manufactured threat by mitch mcconnell. ilat it's an entirely manufactured threat by mitch mcconnell.— by mitch mcconnell. not to confuse our tlobal by mitch mcconnell. not to confuse our global viewers, _ by mitch mcconnell. not to confuse our global viewers, but _ by mitch mcconnell. not to confuse our global viewers, but you - by mitch mcconnell. not to confuse our global viewers, but you could i our global viewers, but you could use a parliamentary manoeuvre known as a budget reconciliation and act alone. .. . , as a budget reconciliation and act alone. ., . , �* ., alone. unfortunately we can't do that. the timing _ alone. unfortunately we can't do that. the timing doesn't - alone. unfortunately we can't do that. the timing doesn't work i alone. unfortunately we can't do i that. the timing doesn't work and it has never been done as a partisan
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way to get the debt limit done. so... .. way to get the debt limit done. so... ., .. way to get the debt limit done. so. .. ., ., ., way to get the debt limit done. so... ., ., ., 'j~ way to get the debt limit done. so... ., ., ., 'f~ , so... you got to the 18th, why can't ou do it so... you got to the 18th, why can't you do it now? _ so... you got to the 18th, why can't you do it now? because _ so... you got to the 18th, why can't you do it now? because the - so... you got to the 18th, why can'tj you do it now? because the process is unbelievably _ you do it now? because the process is unbelievably arduous _ you do it now? because the process is unbelievably arduous and - you do it now? because the process| is unbelievably arduous and because it's never been done before for a partisan debt limit left, it is full of traps and sing calls into which the republicans can drop us. you are assuming that they want to get this donein assuming that they want to get this done in good faith, and i think that is a flawed assumption. i think they are trying to make this as much of a crisis as possible so that they can demand some ransom to extract the country from a default. we are simply not going to let that happen. and if the us defaults, and at the worst happens, and it doesn't look like i decide is backing down, come the end of next week, what are the implications of that? igrate the end of next week, what are the implications of that?— implications of that? we will have to unch implications of that? we will have to punch through _ implications of that? we will have to punch through the _ implications of that? we will have to punch through the rule - implications of that? we will have to punch through the rule that - implications of that? we will have | to punch through the rule that lets them hold us up to 60 votes. 50
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to punch through the rule that lets them hold us up to 60 votes. so you think it will — them hold us up to 60 votes. so you think it will get — them hold us up to 60 votes. so you think it will get solved _ them hold us up to 60 votes. so you think it will get solved in _ think it will get solved in the senate? it wont come to a default? yes. it will not come to a default. it will get solved in the senate and the republicans have left us no realistic alternative of doing what we are going to have to do. senator from rhode — we are going to have to do. senator from rhode island, _ we are going to have to do. senator from rhode island, thank _ we are going to have to do. senator from rhode island, thank you - we are going to have to do. senator from rhode island, thank you very l from rhode island, thank you very much indeed for being on the programme. you make my pleasure, christian. thank you. a russian actress and director have blasted off into space in a bid to film the first movie in orbit. the crew will record scenes for the challenge, the russian film—makers are set to beat an american project that was announced last year involving the hollywood star tom cruise together with nasa and space acts. and that's the racket going up. they have been training for this for months. so i suppose it's a little bit of life imitating art as well. they will be up there, and also he told you yesterday, of
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course, william shatner is going. plenty more to come here on bbc news. stay with us. we will see you at the same time tomorrow. thanks for watching. hello. tuesday dropped some torrential rain across parts of the uk, some areas seeing a month's worth of rain in a matter of hours. wednesday is going to offer up a much drier day with lighter winds, but there will be another area of low pressure waiting in the wings to move in as the day wears on. but it's this little brief ridge of high pressure that will set us up for a largely fine day on wednesday. still the legacy of tuesday's low, though, feeding some cloud and keener northerly winds down the north sea coasts through the early part of the day. generally quite light winds, though, on wednesday and a little warmer, too, especially where we lose the wet weather from eastern scotland and northern england. for northern ireland, however, it's looking grey and wet again come the afternoon, as a set of weather
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fronts push their way into the northwest of the uk. and they will stay close by here now for the next few days. some pretty humid air working its way into the uk, to the south of those weather fronts. temperatures in double figures going into thursday morning. and that really sets the tone for our weather for the end of the week — warm, humid air being pulled up from the south. here are the weather fronts, as i said, snaking away to the northwest of the uk, continuing to bring some rain into northern ireland and scotland, potentially some heavy rain at times. but if we follow south, where the air ahead of those weather fronts is coming from, it's getting pulled from a long way south in the atlantic. essentially, we are moving into tropical air across the uk for thursday and friday. so even where we do have some heavier and more persistent rain, northern ireland and scotland, we're set to see temperatures in the high teens. further south, in some sunshine, 20 or 21 degrees is possible. i think thanks to the moisture in the atmosphere, fog could be
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an issue across some parts of england and wales first thing on friday. there will be some further rain to the far northwest of the uk, but if anything, with sunshine extending into eastern scotland, a warmer day here on friday. now, through the weekend, it looks like this weather front will make its journey southeastwards across the uk, with a high pressure area trying to build in from the west. just how quickly that front goes through is subject to some question at the moment. it looks like overnight friday into saturday, there will be some heavier rain for northern ireland and western scotland. and then current thinking is the front starts to give up the ghost a little bit as it works its way southeastwards across the uk. some sunshine for england and wales and still some warmth around on saturday. it looks like the front will tend to clear through on sunday, potentially some wet weather across the eastern side of the uk first thing. and behind that front, temperatures will fall a little, back to around average values for the time of year, so a cooler story to end the week.
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now, what we have at the moment is a very amplified jet stream. that's partly due to the remnants of hurricane sam in the atmosphere pulling warm air a long way north. and big amplifications mean big waves, and that means big contrasts either side of the jet stream. look at us for early next week — warm, tropical air to the west, cool, polar air to the east. and exactly where that jet stream comes to sit across the uk will be a very deciding factor in whether we have some unseasonably warm weather or it turns unseasonably chilly with northerly winds. what we are quite confident about at the moment now is that high pressure is going to build to the south, so it should become more settled, but temperature is our big uncertainty in the outlook.
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